Fast Retrobrite in the Dark (Speedee-brite No UV!)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- This video is a description of a submergence heat-only retrobrite technique primarily developed for those in northern latitudes (like myself). This video took 2 weeks of testing to get the recipe correct and there will be a follow-up video showing the entire process from start to finish.
Editor's Note: I will say in the video several times that I am leery of UV light in any retrobrite process. 50 years of polymer research says that UV light damages plastic. Processes like "Lightbrighting" do not disprove this research but indicate another process is acting on the discoloration faster than the damage can occur as UV damage tends to be a slow process - particularly with ABS that has been treated with UV protectant.
Caution: This process - like all retrobrite processes - is not without its risks and could damage your pieces if not done thoughtfully and correctly.
The Recipe
3% hydrogen peroxide solution
170 f / 77 c degree heat
45 minutes - 1 hour in solution
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Thank you for taking the time to put all this information together! I just used your 3% H2O2 + 77°C method and it worked beautifully. Just as you said, the whitening process finished a little while after the parts were removed from heat and rinsed.
You can speed up the whitening process with less heat by simply adding a cup of vinegar to one liter of H2O2, which activates the oxygen. Even better is by adding a quarter cup of HCl to one liter of H2O2 which really kicks the oxygen into high gear. ;)
I've had great success with a clear plastic container and a UV LED strip wrapped around the outside. (Using 12% hydrogen peroxide)
No heat and the parts I've done still look fantastic two years later.
Ironically the UV light creates a lot of heat and that's what activates the peroxide mainly. You can do away with the UV light which damages the molecule bonds in plastics, instead just use a heater lamp (for growing plants) or an oven set to low with the door open.
Thank you for this and your other Retrobrite videos. My Yamaha keyboard is about 20 years old and all the white keys, along with the volume dial, had become dull and yellowed to the point that it was depressing to look at. So I watched a lot of videos and found yours to be the most informative. I ultimately went with the heat method using 3% H2O2. I used my toaster oven to test on the volume dial. The dial was originally a light grey color before yellowing and it was pretty bad. My toaster oven has an inaccurate temperature control dial and I can't find my thermometer anywhere so I had to gradually increase the temperature until I started to get a reaction after 1 hour. Once I got it to the right temperature I saw immediate results after about 30 minutes. So I left it in there for a couple more hours and when I checked on it, it still looked a bit yellow so I kept putting it in longer. Well...after about 6 hours it looked great and I put it on the keyboard, which I had just finished fully cleaning the case and buttons, and I was amazed. That was about 11 hours ago. It has since turned almost white...a nice super light grey. I kept it in too long because I was interpreting the lighter grey to be yellow under the light I was using when I periodically checked on it. So now it's lighter than its original color, but I actually kinda' like it better that way, anyway.
So even with 3% at ~170 degrees it's very, very effective. I'm going to do the white keys next, and if I keep those in a little too long it won't necessarily be a problem if they get whiter after I put them back in the instrument.
Thanks again for all the testing you did in these videos. It was very helpful.
Awesome video 👍 Thanks for being so thorough! Here in The Netherlands we can pretty much only get small quantities of 3% (it's regulated, if you register etc you can get larger quantities) and we don't get much sunlight so this is very useful!
Kudos for taking the time to research this. FYI I used this process on an opaque uv damaged gameboy shell. Unfortunately it didn’t remove the yellowing and covered the shell in a heavy white layer of oxidised plastic. I don’t recommend this for gameboys.
The amount of green caused me to think there was something worng eith my HDMI connection :D
Thanks for the experiments you’ve tried! Question: in the recipe, when you say to leave it out to dry for a couple hours, are you leaving the peroxide solution on the plastic? Are you washing it off with water and allowing it to dry?
Either is good. The peroxide solution isn't stronger than first aid peroxide so there isn't much reason to wash it off. I don't bother and haven't seen any negative results.
Very nice, look forward to more of your experiments. Subscribed! :-)
UV is the reason of the yellow shade too. It activates the chemistry. I wonder which element courses the yellow color. It is in the air appearingly.
Ultraviolet light damages styrenes kind of like it gives us sunburn. It breaks down the polymer causing discoloration, brittleness, and other issues. Other airborne and environmental factors can contribute to yellowing as well.
Not necessarily. I have a PlayStation that sat in a basement without seeing a lick of sunlight or smoke it’s entire life and it yellowed sitting in the box for 15 years. UV isn’t necessary to get yellowing. It’s going to happen regardless.
It's due to bromine oxide formation. Plastic manufacturer add a portion of bromine as fire retardant.
Greta video! I also wondered, why UV is used for retrobrighting. But your method makes sense. You have a new subscriber! Greetings George
That's not plastic on your thumb it's a chemical burn. I speaking from experience always wear latex gloves.
Nice video (was watching a few to see views on this topic). I think your temperature could be deadly though. I've seen some keys warp in a glass jar full of peroxide in the sun in the UK (we dont get much sun or much strength) so I suspect anything above 50-55 is VERY risky. Would have loved to have seen some testing around temperature. I can tell you an Amiga spacebar would be warped beyond use at 77C for any length of time
An Amiga spacebar is likely made of polystyrene. In a later video I demonstrate and explain this. This temperature only works with ABS plastics like the cases for the Commodore. Softer plastics do reflow at these temperatures.
A Sous Vide might be easier to deal with than a turkey cooker (though, more costly). Just a thought.
Perhaps, though much more expensive.
So this being almost 2 years old, I wonder if you still have those keys around and how white they still are. Will be interesting to see what happened!
I actually still have them attached to the salvaged keyboard. That will be noted in an upcoming video.
177F or 80C is way to hot for plastic, even just sitting in the open. Should not go any more than 120F/50C, and then extend the time frame., regardless of trying to get a faster reaction to cut down on the time it takes to do the job.
Depends on the plastic. Too hot for polystyrene but not too hot for abs.
I was thinking, I could use a crock pot, but apparently the "low" setting hits 190 degrees. Any ideas on how to reduce that temp?
I wouldn't risk it. You can mitigate some overheating through careful monitoring and modulating the power but it is very risky.
@@gigsplain UPDATE: I bought a cheap rice cooker- the "warm" setting is around 150F. I let the pieces sit in the rice cooker for a few hours, with Salon Care 40, and really didn't see results. As you mentioned, the "sweet spot" must be around 170F.....
I tried this with no luck. Fortunately it was on a broken SNES top lid that I didn't want anyways. Not sure where it went wrong. I heated about 64oz of 3% Hydrogen Peroxide in an aluminum baking pan until the liquid reached 170 degrees, checking with a new thermometer. Then I added in the broken SNES top lid, totally submerging it in the liquid, and set the timer for 40 min. I checked on the liquid temp a couple times as the timer counted down and it remained at 170 the entire time. The result was some noticeable warping to the lid and only slightly brighter color. What went wrong?
Possibly wrong kind of plastic. ABS is the only plastic that can stand that kind of heat. Also, indirect, even heat is best. It sounds like you might have heated it directly. The reason I used a roaster is there is a small air gap and 2 layers of metal between the heating element and the part. This provided a more indirect heat.
@@gigsplain Thanks but SNES plastic is ABS and it being in a bath of liquid plus aluminum container would have solved any direct heat issues. What would that matter if the liquid was a consistent 170 over time? Anyways it was fun to try.
@@EBPization somehow, the temp was too high for the plastic. A pan on heat is more direct heat than the roaster. I know people who have burned spaghetti in boiling water because it was directly heated. This could happen to the plastic - especially if the plastic sat on the bottom of the aluminum pan.
Many plastics have additives to prevent UV breakdown.
Newer ones, very likely. But what about the older ones.. the ones that these retro-bright methods are meant to restore?
Have you try using steam cleaner, than spray plastic with hydrogen peroxide, than use steam again to make it white faster?
Steam would impart too much heat inconsistently across the surface.
@@gigsplain Would also make it more easily breathable, which to me, sounds like a bad idea.
Good video. Thanks for the different method. I have issues getting a good amount of UV light. You can control temperature and exposure from chemicals a little better using a sous vide.
True, however this equipment is less than 1/4 the price of a sous vide.
@@gigsplain Fair enough... and I do understand budgetary restrictions.
I just picked up a sous vide device on Amazon for $39.99. It's currently working on my Atari ST keys. So far it's beautiful, not expensive, and much safer and simple to control and get the precise temperature you want. 👍🏻
Thank you for this video! I just started getting into console repair and I’m refurbishing my brother’s broken, yellow, SNES.
I’ve been hesitant to try the traditional “retrobrite” method because it didn’t make sense to me that the yellowing was caused by exposure to UV light and we were supposed to use UV light to fix it.
I just need to find myself a heating method now. Any suggestions? I don’t know if a roaster would be large enough for my needs.
You have a new subscriber now, great work!
The large roaster I used *should* be large enough for most things like game console cases. I just did a whole 1541 floppy case and it is larger than an SNES. I plan to address larger items in future videos.
@@gigsplain Could you perhaps just cook that stuff in a pot to about 77c and pour it into a plastic bag with the case in it and let it do its magic? Maybe wrap that bag into some old pillow case and aluminium foil or something to create a sort of thermal insulation so it cools down slower. I guess you could stick some heating element like the ones used for water pipes in the winter into the bag? Just throwing ideas here. About to do my C128 + peripherals any day now, which is why I ended up here.
@@kke the biggest hurdle to any alternate is the narrow temperature window of effectiveness this has. Too warm and you risk damage. Too cool and it becomes ineffective.
@@gigsplain I think I'm going to try some variation of this in a couple of days.
@@gigsplain hmm got an idea. If the stuff can be sealed watertight, I could put the bag in my dishwasher on the 70c program.
I'd suggest cooler for longer, stirring every 10-15 minutes. I used some Salon Care 40 Clear Developer's liquid and water at about 3:1 for a Game Boy DMG, at 160° F for four hours. It worked, but not as well and evenly as I'd like. I tried a second time with just the Salon Care, and it bowed the Game Boy battery cover and the hole for the screen. I think the plastic got hotter than the liquid. I put it back on the stove with just water at 170° or so and was able to bend it back like a blacksmith, but now the screen hole is evercso slightly too small gor a lens to fit in the depression. And the bubbles that formed on the shell took away some of the bleaching and left spots. The spots are the correct color, but the rest is a bit bleached.
I rinsed it off as soon as I took it out of the pan, at 4 and 10 hours.
This process and temp really only works with ABS. If you use this process with polystyrene it will reflow the plastic. So, as you suggest, a lower temperature is advised (about 130/140 is safe). 40 developer is also 12% hydrogen peroxide. To get to 3%, you will want 4 parts water to 1 part developer. Higher ratios of developer can result in a more "bleached" part.
This may be stupid but, did Anyone tried a shoebox with aluminum foil lining it and a blow dryer?
Come to think of it, did you also experiment with agitation? When I was still developing film there were big changes in development time when it came to the temperature of the developer, but also if you agitated at certain intervals (I believe because the chemical reaction at the surface tends to slow down as the reaction leaves a film of satiated chemical particles). You could develop for 10 minutes with 15 sec agitation at 2 minutes intervals, or you could use stand development for an hour (stand meaning no agitation at all. Maybe it would also lower the risk of getting blotches.
Blotches weren't an issue with this method and agitation won't really help so much because of the way we discovered how this works. Submersion methods require a certain amount of heat or UV radiation to break up the peroxide and create free hydrogen to repair the plastic. However, using agitation on lower heat methods may be useful in speeding the process along.
@@gigsplain it's certainly interesting. I tried two times today (keyboard keys and a mouse). I used a hot air oven with a completely closed container, worked like a charm 👍
how would i do this with a big tower case thats yellow
This method should scale up. The issue is the vessel size and controllable heat source.
Might suggest using a 'Sous Vide' cooker. Its a device that heats up water and circulates it. Thought as its only meant for water, im not sure how dunking it in HP would affect the mechanics of it.
In your video, it looks like the keys are submerged. How did you accomplish that, or am I looking at it wrong? Also, is that water in the roaster?
In the pictures of the first experiment, the chemicals were in the jars surrounded by water. The keys generally floated upside down but they could be submerged by flooding them. As the damage was topside, as long as they were upside-down I didn't worry too much.
So much green pc parts sub for great taste
Water is chlorinated so it would explain the difference.
The water isn't chlorinated enough to make that kind of difference.
@@gigsplain You'd be surprised. If you can taste it after a few days of not drinking it, them it is in high enough concentration. The chlorination and fluoridation isn't always consistent.
@@bobweiram6321 in this case, I wasn't surprised. The total chlorine content of my tap water is .0032g per litre. A miniscule amount and not enough to make any difference in bleaching effect. It is not the poison, it's the dose. In this case, the dose is effectively zero.
@@gigsplain Fair enough, I should have said "could" rather than "would." You do realize, however, polybutylene pipes were all the rage decades ago, but are no longer manufactured. Shortly after its introduction, it turned out the chlorine in the water pitted holes in the pipes overtime causing them to burst. I have personally experienced the horror after one of the pipes ruptured in my home.
@@bobweiram6321 I have had the same experience in another home. They were terrible.
UVA vs UVB?
I read that plastics turns back yellow in 4-5 years after this process. I see this video is 2.5 years old. Had you tried this years earlier and seen any items return back to the old yellow color?
I did a more recent video that shows the keys after about 2 years after the experiment. Long story short, there is a slight color change but nowhere near yellow. They still look good.