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Ralfi's Alley- X-55 Rhino review
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2024
- This is a non in depth review of the stick which I immediately returned. I do not like it at all for its button placements.
If you feel differently, or are contempt with how the buttons are layed out, then thumbs up to you.
This is my own personal opinion on the subject.
Skip to 3 minutes in to start the actual review, as the first 3 minutes are really just to go over the last stick review I had.
My hand size for comparison:
From thumb to pinky when extending both- 8 inches
thumb length- 3 inches
pinky length- 2.75 inches
index finger- 3.5 inches
width of palm (under nuckles)- 3.5 inches
I still re-watch this purely for the frustration and how funny it is
same even after 8 years lmao
@@Error-33 lmfaooo still here xD
Wow started off chill, then a slow descent into madness
I love how your attitude goes from chilled & relaxed to rusted & pissed off as soon as you hold that stick lol! defiantly put me off buying it. there's 100's of other reviews that agree with you.
@TODarkschnider420 Which X-56? The blue one or the fully grey one?
@TODarkschnider420 how the heck were you using it? where did you get it, craigslist?
@TODarkschnider420 if you took care of it properly, that wouldnt have happened
10:00 shit got real
LMFAO
EXACTLY HAHAHA
Just to clarify. I liked the design. They went ahead and tried to be a cheap alternative competition for the Warthog and I think that's great. But they fucked up on the button placements like they didn't even bother to test it out themselves.
Not to mention that the X-55 is currently riddled with driver problems. Windows 8 users have it the worst. Myself on windows 7, would lock the PC up as soon as I disconnected the stick from the PC. I'm sure that can be patched up in due time though.
PPS: My hand size for comparison:
From thumb to pinky when extending both- 8 inches
thumb length- 3 inches
pinky length- 2.75 inches
index finger- 3.5 inches
width of palm (under nuckles)- 3.5 inches
Doesnt that lock up problem still happen with the X52 on win 7? Win 8 just got drivers for it ;D after sooo many years.
Great review. I returned my x55 within half an hour of use (yaw axis started sticking and squeaking). Not only were the buttons unergonomically laid out, but mine felt/sounded cheap and broken. Also didn't like how you can feel the plastic disc at the bottom rubbing against the base even with the lightest spring installed. For the price i don't think it is fair for the customer to have to macguiver the sticks insides. no idea how theyre getting away with making such low quality products in general. On a lighter note keep your vids coming Ralfi!
michael holmes i had the same with the yaw and the disc but after a while of usage the squeaking stopped and the disc got smoother. you are also able to apply custom lube ^^
Michael de Coninck de Merckem
True, i had two different X52 and they all produced blue screens. I'm currently have the X52 but it's always a gamble when connecting it to the PC, lol.
I just got the x55 and I have came to the same conclusions. I am keeping mine because I haven't had any software issues, I can't justify/afford a warthog, and it is miles ahead of my old stick.
It definitely feels like it was made for Andre the Giant, not a normal size human hand.
Reading all the comments so far, I find that mostly the people who have larger than average hands are finding this stick alright, whilst the rest who have it or have tried it, are not liking the layout at all.
May I add that for the stick portion of the troubles, it would have been all solved and much better, had they made the base (where the wrist sits) adjustable like they did with the X-52 series. By making that base non adjustable, they fucked themselves here...
Thanks for the review, as a new purchaser I definitely noticed that you need large hands to access all the hat buttons on the stick. Fortunately the stick is a good fit for my hand, but it won't be the case for everyone.
Huge fan of the system myself for now as it delivers amazing functionality at a low price point for what you get. If you're sitting on the fence because you're worried it won't fit your hand well, ask yourself if two hats (out of 5) and 1 button are worth spending twice as much on a TM WARTHOG.
BigMorgan612 Orrr stick with an X52 PRO... The Warthog is NOT the only alternative choice, nor did I say that anywhere.
ralfidude Same - I only meant if someone is on the fence between the two.
Ohh, a great vid !! I was looking on that to replace my x65 that is finally working :)
But your review on this 55 is a pain in the butt. It will be a Warthog when Im ready instead. I can see the problems directly when you pointed it out.
Thanks for a good review, and its a important thing to have a nice stick if you are flying for hours in a row.
I had a X55, returned the POS. I have large hands, yet resting my hands on the base the top buttons are still to high. I shouldn't have to shift my hand to reach buttons. My $15 new Logitech Extreme 3D Pro has better button layout and is extremely comfortable. There's an extremely uncomfortable click in the twist. Mine broke in less than 3 days. I have a family member that had the stick, the throttle and buttons all braking within a week. It's Garbage!
Cheers Rafi. Your review stopped me buying the 55 just in the nick of time. spent the extra 120euro and got the warthog. Man am i so glad i made that decision. now I got my old modded cougar for BMS, and warthog for everything else. !!!
Good man!
"Shit Thunder" I lost it there.
Hasn't changed a bit
@@julian5857 can still agree with this sentiment, despite some good stuff happening this year.
I love my X-55. Apart from the rubbery plastic literally melting away (I removed it with rubbing alcohol), it's been flawless. I think Ralfi's problem was his starting point... From the best in the market to the average. I am deep into DCS and considering a better upgrade. The X-55 has been a good entry level HOTAS.
Even for a entry level, that horrible ergonomics is not justified when the whole thing costs like, 200 bucks or more. It's absurd when you consider that there IS a cheaper alternative that is T.16000M.
I'm not saying it's the worst bloody stick on the market, but with that price point, they should've put on a effort to at least the stick wasn't so horrible to even GRIP.
VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Stick + T16000M Throttle Combo is Great, and Costs 270$, its not High Level Simulation Setup but its not a Entry level either.i think this is a Great Combo, and Better than Directly Buying T-16000M Hotas if you can spare a 100$ More.
I bought this stick. Couldn't be happier. It broke 1 week later. Not PHYSICALLY broke. Broke as in. Plug it in. and it half works.
SAITEK won't help. DCS Flight time = 3 days and now I cant play
Thanks Obama!
Did you buy it direct or through amazon or newegg? If you got it through saitek and they won't help you I would threaten with a chargeback. It's been within 30 days they should take it back with no issues.
Direct. They keep closing my support tickets. This fucking company. And their drivers fuck my computer up. Best $200 ever spent
Yeager_Charlotte Yea, if they won't help you threaten them with that chargeback, keep in mind that means you never again intend to do business with them directly. It's really your last option if it is their faulty hardware and they won't help you resolve it.
OHNOOOOOO!
O boy Am I glad I found this review:) that's the kind of review I'm looking for, not some noob to HOTAS telling me how grate the x55 "feels". Thank you!
Yeah same here, if not for it I'd have an X-55 instead of a Warthog right now.
For a cheap HOTAS, I would happily recommend the thrustmaster T-flight. It's quite smiple with nowhere near the functionality of any of these sticks, but it doesn't pretend to be a direct competitor.
It does have one design failure: the throttle and stick are connected by a wire. So while you can split them and separate them, the cable isn't super long and you may have routing issues, and you will definitely have routing issues if you are using any kind of simpit. But if you have a t-flight, you're using a desk. You don't lay out the time and money for a simpit and then attach a 50 buck joystick!
I have to agree. I'm using one of those aswell and i'm quite happy with it. I'm upgrading to a Ch fightertsick and pro throttle only for more buttons. Even thinking about it, the t-flight buttons are placed very well for reaching them, something i hadn't thought of before seeing this review. Luckly the Ch stick is based off the F-16 so it should be equally easy to reach buttons as the warthog!
Mike B Yeah, I used the t-flight for Kerbal Space Program. When I got the warthog I gave the t-flight away, but as per ralfi's experience, sometimes the hog is just a bit too much for simpler games. I wouldn't say I "preferred" the t-flight, but it was certainly sufficient, whereas the hog is excessive.
I recommend the 16000m for anyone looking for a good mid range flight HOTAS, the tflight hotas x or 4 for anyone looking for an entry level HOTAS
Great review. I really like the ergonomic analysis. Don't worry about only playing for two hours; if you don't like it after 30 minutes there's something wrong.
Just looking at the stick from the back you can see why your thumb was uncomfortable. The "head" of the stick protrudes to the right of the handle, so when you go for one of the hat switches you have to move your thumb beyond the back of your hand. This is not a natural move (imagine doing a handshake with the back of your hand).
Mad catz? It explains why it's complete bullshit.
"What's an ergonomics?" - Madcatz
Thank you Ralfi. I was on the fence about upgrading from and X52-Pro, but now I'll just save my money.
The X-55 is great. This review is really biased as he has the warthog, and as someone who owns an X-55 it is worth the upgrade.
@@sammyboy9876 if you have larger hands most of the issues mentioned are minimal but with average to smaller hands they become more apparent
I wish Saitek/Mad Catz would sell the throttle unit separately. I might be looking into that for an affordable dual throttle device. It has more features than the X-52 throttle I've been using for a long while - which also has lots of problems with wires getting chafed through internally, I've had to replace quite a bit of them along the years.
As it is... yeah, no way am I spending money to get both the throttle and stick if I'm not using the stick at all.
i like how im watching this vid 6 years later, originally i was going to buy the x55 before buying the warthog. God bless i havent made a bad purchase, btw is amazing that a vid from 6 years ago is more transparent than a vid from now a days
I have this stick and for the most part I like it, the software is good and allows you to easily setup curves and map buttons. The stick has so many switches which is great and looks good on my desk. It's ideal for flight and space sims. I don't know why you had so many issues settting it up, it's so straight forward. The one obvious let down is the egornomics - I have small hands too and I've just got used to moving my hand. Not ideal and I can see why that would be a deal breaker for most people but other than that the stick is pretty good value for the money.
Well, after watching this review... looks like I'm saving for a Warthog. I was debating getting one and was thinking, "ehh all those people getting mad at it are just being nitpicky." What I liked about your review is that you didn't just complain about it. You showed WHY the stick sucks, and I'm inclined to believe you. Like you said in one of your other comments, people with large hands or piano-fingers may like it, but good lord, it's like they designed it after a football-bat. It's too bad too, it's at a more affordable price point. Sigh.
I actually liked the x52 pro I had until I got my Warthog, now I could never go back to a Saitek stick, especially one missing the dual-stage trigger, that it very important for the aircraft I fly.
I also have the Saitek Combat pedals and _HATE_ them. They are insanely uncomfortable to fly with as your feet are just resting on a metal bar. I'm upgrading to the MFG Crosswinds the first chance I get.
I was pondering getting this as a replacement for my ailing x52 (which is Madcatz-acquisition era, but has been reasonably faithful to me), I've worn out every axis on this thing. My hands are about the same size as Ralfie's, though, so not goanna go there. If I could find a 52 pro at a reasonable price, I'd go with that as a replacement.
Saitek Rudder pedals are awful, though.... Need to take mine apart and fix a broken brake axis.
Did the same, wh is great and mfg crosswind is just incredibly good.
However, just switched to virpil warbrd+mt 50 grid and it is far ahead of wh imo.
I bought a Thrustmaster Warthog last week. Previously I had Saitek X52 pre-MADCATZ so it ran relatively reliably only one roller stopped working. But the Warthog is a few levels away. I was thinking about buying X-55. But I hate that cheap plastic on X52 and especially how light the set was so I bought Thrustmaster Warthog. Complete satisfaction. It's not that expensive if you are flyer for the hearth and quality you get. Lastly I want to thank you for this review because you helped me to do the right decision. :-) Thanks
I always come back to this laughing xD
Nice review. I liked how you were very specific and demonstrated why you didn't like that Saitek product. The 60 FPS makes a huge difference in video quality. I currently have a CH Fighterstick and a CH Pro Throttle and they work great for my needs, though I have to move my hand to press the weapons release button. I just bought the Warthog HOTAS on sale for $350 and I'm glad to see that I didn't waste my money. My CH HOTAS will probably still be good for more casual games.
Don't give TM all the credits for it ergonomics, as that should go to the USAF and Lockheed, whereas Saitek did their own thing..
You mean General Dynamics right? As the A-10C's stick is from the F-16.
+135th Darksword You are correct, but there were three reasons I didn't use General Dynamics. First I was talking about the whole HOTAS, not only the joystick, second Lockheed took over (well Lockheed Martin) and finally I don't know to what extend the USAF flight stick is a generic design - the previous sticks appear to have been standardized as well - with controls added so to speak. Iirc the original ww2 design was based on a Colt. Also, using GD for the F16 makes me feel old :)
Well if you are talking about the whole HOTAS then you'd have to credit Fairchild Republic, McDonnell Douglas/Boeing, and General Dynamics for the design. Fairchild did the left hand throttle, the right hand throttle was from the F-15E and General Dynamics supplied the F-16 stick. In regards to standardization the F-15 and F-18s use the same stick, the A-10C and F-15E use the same right throttle, the F-16 and A-10C use the same stick, and the A-10A used the F-4 stick.
+135th Darksword thanks for the background info! My chosen field is WW2 Luftwaffe fighters, so a little out of my depth here :)
So going back to the point I tried to make, much of the credit for the Cougar's ergonomics must go to others and not to TM. I guess that's one of the advantages of choosing a real world tried and proven design over a gaming only design.
Ruy Horta Very true, TM has no role in the ergonomics!
My X55 is on it's way back to Mad Catz for warranty repair (got maybe 50 hrs out of it) My Warthog will be here tomorrow.
There is an old saying, "Buy the best and only cry once" sure wish I had back the $200 I wasted on the Rhino
+MrScrogg Good man!
Wow. A review that has the courtesy of getting to brass tax and then allowing us to decide whether we want to sit in on the rest of the review or not.
10/10. Subscribed and watched the whole thing just on general principal.
x52 pre-mad cat owner lol I've had this boxed up for over 7 years.....still works like a pro. using it currently with MSFL2020
to this point we realized that many people who got x55 had wiring problems, buttons would flash outta nowhere and a lot of people got their "neck" of the throttle broke off(mine had my button gone flat just 6 MONTHS OF USAGE, another 6 months i got the wiring and neck problem which just rendered it unusable). nice job madcatz
MadCatz deserved its fate
Still have my X-55 lying around somewhere
The Grip was a ergonomical nightmare until I padded the palm rest with an inch of hard foam
I actually liked the throttle for basic operation, loved the axis+button on top and buttom on the right handle, but most buttons on the right side weren't the easiest to manipulate
Mouse nipple was too small, hats were imprecise, the slide button icw the software BSODed my system
I retired it not long after I rewired the throttle after finding a few wires broken and another 50% on the point of breaking
Hell, I maybe just rip it apart and turn it into a programmable button box
I have an x55 on the way. It's my first 'real' joystick I'll have had since the mid 90's. I really dig your channel, and all the stuff you play. Thanks for the review, man.
did it cause you suffering?
For the same/very close price of the X56 (Modern X55) you can also get the NXT Gladiator (Better stick) and TWCS throttle (From T-16000M).
Far better choice. Higher quality stick, more reliable, and more ergonomic.
Throttle is better too.
I don't know what I expected, but this video was a surprising joy. ty
Got the X56 a while ago, a good few of the issues seemed to persist, but a few still seemed to be fixed between the 55 and 56. The bottom button sticking seemed to not be an issue for me, and they included a wrist rest attachment that increases the height a bit which is nice.
Mang, where was this video when I was buying the X-56 a couple years ago :(
I have an x55 and love it. Take this review for what it is. I'm sure if I had a warthog before the x55 I would feel differently. The buttons feel a little awkward at first. now that I've had some time with it, Its like second nature hitting all the buttons on the stick. Seriously don't rule out the x55 cause of this video.
I have an X55, and the only criticism I disagree with is the master mode switch on the joystick. I can reach that perfectly fine with my index finger.
I'm keeping mine, because I have slightly more flexible hands and can deal with these issues easier. However, I think this is a great video to put out there, because, while I found complaints about the 'feel' of the stick when researching it, I couldn't find anything this specific. I was not prepared for how weird it feels to actually use. It feels like Saitek focused more on a beautiful design than a functional one.
Your legit fucking hilarious. Everything was calm until 10 minutes and then it was like whoa
A very simple solution for the hand rest on the joystick. Get some foam rubber like a mouse mat and add layers to the desired height., cut to shape and use 2 part epoxy resin to glue it on. Simple. I have long fingers but have a small palm. Cost me about $10 bucks to fix and it is very useable and comfortable.
Thank you for the heart felt review. It's obvious this means a lot to you as a flyer. Your review stopped me from buying this thing. I even have slightly smaller hands than you! Thanks fort saving me the money.
CMS button not being a 4 way hat is the deal breaker for me, I almost bought one of these, I'm sticking with my old and trusty X-45 until I get a Warthog. Had I bought one of these and discovered the CMS switch was a single button I would have been fucking livid.
Cheers for the review you saved me some stress, you do have ladies hands tho'. :)
I have this HOTAS and to be honest I turned out to be better than many of the reviews said.
Regarding the stick, I don´t have any issues with the layout -and my hands are small...I'm 5ft 8"- . The problem I got with this stick is how they fucked up the CMS hat giving us only a stupid push button!!. Aside that, I must praise the precision of the hall sensors. Yet there's a problem with the collar shaft sticking to he shaft but it can be solved regreasing and rotating this collar until you find a smoother "sweet spot".
I agree with Ralfi on the throttle. Those hat switches are really unconfortable. The lowest one not easy to reach without having to look at it from time to time. I really like the resistance of the throttle even on the most loose setting.
In short, I find this HOTAS a good investment if you come from any other set but the Warthog.
Finally I want to point at a very interesting thing:
Saitek designed this HOTAS all by themselves and if it weren't for some annoyances it would be perfect INSTEAD Thrustmaster copied (They had to..It's a replica) a design from a set that has had millions of dollars and years in research and development plus the real pilots' feedback and that's why it is much more ergonomic.
ralfidude. I love this review. You're just straight up honest. Some of the things you don't want to admit are ok but you do anyway which I appreciate because I'll take what you say about the rest of it seriously.
Hey mate! Good show review and nicely done opinion with showing most important details, but I have question. Did you tried mixed control device? I meant using joystick warthog and throttle 55? Should work? Because throttle 55 is for me more promising than warthog, but has shitty joystick with poor placement button and this is painful exactly like you said! I can buy warthog joystick without throttle separately, but before buy, I need to know, about compatibility with throtle sitek 55 and possibilities. So, did you tried?
I have been considering the x55 since I don't yet own the warthog and still need to save a bit more money before purchase. I got rather large hands that I can reach everything on the Warthog stick with only moving my thumb, so that is a non-issue. However, the deciding factor here is the cms switch and the throttle quadrant. CMS switch is unacceptable for the x55 if it is trying to compete with the warthog. The throttle is an actually good substitute in my opinion but the warthog doesn't really have any issues. Only reason for purchasing the x55 seems to be for those that are extremely poor and need a HOTAS. Even then though, I suggest getting the high quality stuff from CH, who should easily have the best HOTAS available, yet they don't want to sell something as expensive as the warthog...
Appreciate the "nit picky" review because it's good to hear the smallest issues. Wish I could put down $400+ for the Warthog. Hope Madcatz will make improvements with the next release.
I have more than a thousand flight hours with the X56 (the slight upgrade to this stick), I’m finally shelling out the cash for a top of the line Virpil setup. I’ve had every single issue here from day one. It was my first stick, didn’t know about how much better sticks can get, so I waited far too long to upgrade. I do not recommend either this or the 56. I’d say stick with a T16000 till you can upgrade to a nicer stick.
I'm so relieved I didn't buy a Saitek... I didn't quite have the dough to buy the Warthog, so I ended up purchasing a CH Figherstick along with the Pro Throttle. The plastics feel cheap, but in that "indestructible 80s Corolla" kind of way, and I'm perfectly fine with that. The ergonomics are good, but I do have to say that the mouse is very imprecise (perhaps it's just a problem with my stick), and the throttle is... Let's just say it's not very satisfying to use. The best bit though is the reliability of the thing - it's been around for more than a decade now and so far I've never heard of any Fighterstick that broke. So far I'm satisfied with my purchase, but tbh I wish I waited a bit more to get some more cash for the Warthog.
Totally agree with you on all points and I have big hands and I still find it awkward to use. Overall it is very obvious the design was rushed and I dont even think they did any play testing before rushing it off to manufacturing. Really as hotas goes everyone says it is cheaper but the truth is 200 bucks is not all that cheap, especially when you consider the sloppy materials and the totally piss poor layout of the keys. I have been a hotas guy for many many years and those that rave about this setup are obviously newbs that have never played with a really well thought out setup.
X55 owner here. I agree on most points. The stick isn't ergonomic at all unless you have ape hands. From watching your video and mimicking your movements with my stick, I have smaller hands than you do and it's even worse. The hat placement is..yeah, I see what you mean. The throttle I have little problem with. I find if you back the tension all the way back, it re-tightens a bit and needs to be moved a little ahead of the absolute minimum setting to be at it's loosest. I gave it a few minutes of hard use and it feels nice now. The two throttle hats are awful, practically useless, and the two-way pinky hat on the throttle rear is tough to use. The slider is also just a two-way switch, which is a disappointment. Back to the stick, the centering issue is very common. The disc underneath the spring is too tight on the shaft, and isn't well lubricated. Taking the stick and spring off and working that disc up and down for a few minutes sort of 'sanded' it down and removed most of the friction from it, then I added some lithium grease. The disc doesn't seem to be completely round either. Depending on which rotational position it is on the shaft, it will either have more or less friction. There's a sweet spot on there, somewhere. Mine is pretty smooth feeling now, but the stick is still just kind of big and awkward.
yeah i agree with you there, all in all, a big improvement from the x-52 pro functionally, though not ergonomically
also try setting the throttle tention as stiff as it goes, i do find it stays in place better, and actually feels a lot smoother that way although it does take a bit more effort.
the hat switches on the throttle are not really, their just 4-way push buttons not even 8 way, i use them for radar on/off, radar modes, and slew in DCS not much good for anything else.
I love this Review. It's not like all the X55-Hype-Reviews and really shows some issues with this stick. It is not comletly destroying it because there are good things on it too...
But it is truely showing a lot of pbroblems, that others doesn't. Thx for that.
This is by far the best review of X55, thank for sharing
The first time i held the stick in my hand and placed my thumb on the controls i thought "Wait, something is wrong here". The head of the stick is an issue. Not much so in DCS world or other sims - it's awkward but i can deal with it - but if it comes to faster paced non-hardcore sims like Elite:Dangerous, it really starts to be an issue. It's just not possibly to quickly and compfortably work with these things.
Never had any trouble with the stick connections on my X55 and I take it apart pretty frequently (I fly helos without any spring in). These touch-compression contacts are much more durable than the mini-DIN connector on the Warthog. Mini DIN connectors (or generally any pin-based connectors) are renown for bending and breaking their pins like crazy with frequent insertion & removal. Just look at all modern connectors like USB, FireWire, HDMI, DisplayPort, Thunderbolt, Lightning, etc. None use a classic male-female pin layout anymore like (the 9-pin serial port, VGA, etc.) because those broke all the f'king time.
picked up the rhino a week ago and im in love. Im 6'5 so my hands are pretty big, stick fits in my hands like a glove and all buttons and hats are within reach without any adjustment. Im sure the thrustmaster warthog is a great setup, but the cost is ridiculous for a hotas, just because its metal doesnt add another 2-300 dollars. Overall i am extremely happy with my purchase :). thanks for the review bud!
I have my X-52 PRO for a 10 years and i fly with it even today.... Everything works fine....
X-55 is awesome if your hands are big enough - love it and once it has loosened up the stick is awesome, and actually the set-up is better for Star Citizen I find
at first I thought that you were going too hard on X55 and I still do actually on some aspects but, as an X55 Rhino owner it hurts me to say how right you are about the button placement on the stick. god it's terrible to try to reach weapon release and trim buttons. terrible terrible terrible thinking. it's like it designed for aliens with real long and thin fingers.
8:35 - When you started getting heated, lol.
I have had a Saitek X45 since 2002.
I got into DCS during Coronavirus Free Play April-May.
I am deciding what to upgrade to. I can afford the Warthog and Virpil, but I don’t want to spend the money.
I actually like the X55’s design way more than the X-56 even tho the X-56 is a refreshed X-55.
The problem I have is that the X56 doesn’t have a 3rd slider for Flaps...or to use for the Harrier’s nozzle angle.
Logitech needs to replace the X-56 with a design that splits the difference between THRUSTMASTER’S WARTHOG and COUGAR.
Its now 2021 and still the best stick for functionality is the X52 pro, which i've had now for 10 years i think, and it still works perfect.
Great, detailed review, dude! I've had the Warthog for years and contemplated getting the X-55 just because the throttle seems better. But you saved me from making a stupid decision. Your demonstration of the close proximity of the mouse and bottom right hats on the throttle convinced me. I know it's an old review, but again... thanks!
The X-56 is excellent, I’m so happy I never ended up with a 55
I upgraded to one of these as my first proper HOTAS system after using Saitek Cyborg's for years. I have reasonable size hands (19cm trigger to wrist, 14cm thumb to wrist, 17cm pinky to wrist, 9cm palm width) and have found most buttons quite easy to reach and operate.
For the stick I find there is a minor bit of thumb strain in using the trim and the red Master Mode button on the right side of the stick is completely useless (as you pointed out). I've never been able to work out how to change the spring either (it's not intuitive) and my stick squeaks at the slightest movement. I use the push button on the left for Teamspeak PTT and have counter measures on the throttle.
The throttle is fantastic though. My only issue is how awkward the right toggle switches are to access as they practically sit under the throttle as it traverses. Had no issues reaching the pinky switch there either. The Hats on the throttle are a bit awkward at first but I've found the best way to control them (without hitting a second axis) is to put your thumb on the side opposite to the way you need then pull/push the hat. This is opposed to leaving your thumb on top of the hat when using it.
I noticed you didn't mention the mouse nipple at all. I've found this great for controlling targeting systems/radars then using the push button rotaries to lock up targets.
Keep up the videos Ralfi, love your channel.
Hey Ralfidude... Just wanted to throw a huge "Thank You" to not only you, but as important your flight team. I've learned a lot watching your flight video's and the review here was great to. I have the pre 2007 true X52 Pro Saitek:-).
Sorry to say it... I think you missed your true calling. Thanks again, and take care.
Now i completely understand what your saying im just amused at whre we are in this day in age. Where we can legitimately complain about having to lift our hand.
Button placement or ergonomy is VERY important feature when talking about joysticks. X55 failes there (and original X52 also failed there; no high adjustment like in pro version) And that crappy Cobra handle which is, ironically, used as a base handle (you can now buy better handle from VKB) for the best stick on the market - VKB Black Mamba. I dont know why joystick manufactures arent using proved ergonomical deisgns and perfect button placement designs as that of old MS Sidewinders.@Ralf- I liked my Warthog but the red button on the top of the handle is hard to reach even for medium sized hands and I like to use that button for cannons. Then I needed to raise my hand every time. Perfect stick would have VKB Black Mamba base and mechanics (Warthog INSIDE uses plastics hehe) and Sidewinders handle (possibly made of metal).
Obviously compatibility with smaller hand sizes is a problem, but anyone with glove size Large or bigger shouldn't run into the same issues most of this video is dedicated to (source: owner of the X-55 with L hands).
I wish they had just made a more studier X-52 with a couple of extra hat switches. Flying the A-10c with a X52 requires alot of finagling with profiles and combinations to map all the A-10s features. The stick itself is decent in design. The sensors in my X-52 didn't last long though, I got two years before things started to get twitchy.
I am disappointed. The 4-way hat on the stick is the natural resting place for my thumb. The PDF manual clearly says how you swap the spring. On the throttle, the pinky 2-way rocker button is easily operated even without reaching it fully with the finger. Just as you said about the Warthog stick. The button on the bottom rotary works fine. The distance between hats on the throttle also never seemed a problem for me. All of these points were a miss for me. Actually the only drawback I confirm is the stick's height.
What an utter failure in design. Its almost as if it was designed with 3d software while looking at the Hog HOTAS with no thought. I bought the Hog HOTAS almost a year ago after your review and thank you for the time you took to do that review. It is truly the most comfortable and sexy I have used. Had it shipped all the way to Korea. Hope school and all is well.
ralfidude Hey Ralfi! I have been enjoying your videos lately! It would be nice to see a video of what to program all the buttons on the HOTAS. I just bought the Thrustmaster Warthog and I don't know what to program into the buttons, and you seem to have a good setup. Thanks!
Now, this stick is definitely not cheap (more expensive than the Warthog). But i think it has good potential, and might give thrustmaster some competition. It's made by a russian company called VKB that has been making rudder pedals for a long time, and is now making the stick that i'm talking about, the Black Mamba.
Personally i was going to get this stick under the impression that the next "addon" grip they will make for it is a modern type, but i ended up buying the warthog because the modern grip is not coming until approx. mid-end 2015. But heres a few (which is awesome, but definately has some sticking problems...which can be fixed by carefully sanding the imperfect parts of the gimbal and re-applying another grease.)
But anyways, the grip that get's shipped with it is a cheap russian type stick (from the cobra m5) that is not worth the price to say the least. however they sell a small convertion peice that you can attach so that you can mount your warthog grip etc. on it. also they will (after my understandings) be making a ww2 throttle and kg13 grip for it next year (Q1-2 it belive).
Also the main reason for why i was looking at this stick is because it featured a full metal gimbal using high quality sensors. A new upgraded base called black mamba ll is also coming, but i belive that is just a version to fix the problems that users had. sorry for my bad grammar, i come from Norway and so English is not my first language ;) flightsimcontrols.com/store/joysticks/vkb-fat-black-mamba-for-non-eu/
The disappointing thing is that the problems are purely ergonomic. If they'd just paid attention to the ergonomics it'd be so so much better, like if they'd just tried playing with it or something.
Out of curiosity, did you ever get a new joystick for more rotaries, or did you continue to stick with the X-52?
I agree about the button placement. I wonder if I could remove the gray hat and like sand it down to make it shorter and flatter?
Being a fan of Saitek, I feel dissapointed with them. I think this is a great and honest review. I'm not buying this stick, I'll keep my old but faithfull X-52 Pro
Another thing I've noticed Ralfi is your ability to zoom, what button or slide do you use to perform that function? I've tried the slider on the side of the X52 Pros throttle but when I use that, I can zoom really far out and really far back in the cockpit. then it seems to move between 2 increments of zoom slightly which i find irritating, just enough to piss you off ya know? Any suggestions?
Once you've the best, its always hard to go back to something inferior. I got a Hotas Warthog too, really like it.
Agreed on almost all points (only real difference of opinion worth mentioning is that I had no problem using the 2 digital hats on the throttle, and have a hard time using the mouse nub) and I've had my x55 for 4-5 years or something, I wish I had seen this review before I bought it, thought in my defense there wasn't really a good option at the time at a similar price. Mine arrived completely un-lubricated to add insult to injury (added graphite lubricant myself), and yeah the spring and push cone on the stick creates a very hard to describe very icky feeling, you need a lot of force to get the stick from center position and then the spring stops doing much of anything at like 75% deflection. My x55 was my first joystick after only having pretty bad old ones like the logitech 3d pro so I didn't really have a good reference point for what a good hotas felt like, tested a friend's T16k hotas recently and wow, a lot nicer at a lower price at that. I 3D printed a 1cm~ spacer on the hand rest of the stick, lets me use the top half of the hats/buttons on top but makes the pinky switch out of reach.
Huh, funny. On my X-52 pro the spring is softer when you start to pull and gets harder the more you pull. I like it that way (although the spring should be a LOT stronger), it makes little adjustments easy while tighter turns are a bit harder. But I don't understand why they would reverse it.
Have you tried to put a pad or spacer on the base/rest pad? I don't own any joystick, still doing my research. I don't have small hands, rather skinny and long fingered haha. But it looks like the x55 will be my stick of choice within my price range. But I was mostly wondering if putting a spacer would solve the problem of reaching the buttons more comfortably since my right thumb has been broken and mobility might be an issue.
Hey, completely agree with this review. I don't own the 55, but I do own the 65f which is very similar to this hotas. I had the same complaints about the button placement and how it feels like I need to strain my wrist/lift it up to hit the buttons. Aggravating as all shit. Especially when it is a force-sensitive/non-moving stick. So now the slightest movements I accidentally make shifting around my goddamned hand to hit buttons cause unintentional input. Kinda regret getting it, should have waited and got the warthog with the FSSB mod.
The review may sound harsh, but I for one does not use the Thrustmaster A10 on daily basis. We have two simulators in Asgard Gaming that we bring to Dreamhack where we use the Thrustmaster, so I have played around some with it atleast to know the different feel and I understand you. But when I play I do not map it as a real aircraft, like the A10 is meant for. It's weird at some times, but you prioritize some buttons for their uses, so it feels ok for me. Too bad you didnt mention the rudder axis, since that's what made me get the x55 rather than the Thrustmaster. It requires that you buy pedals too, and those costs almost as much as the x55 where I live...
So from my point of view, giving the x55 gives you dual engine control, lots of buttons both on the throttle and the stick, it's a good buy if you want something cheap, but still good(cheaper and really good you'll need to get the Logitech 3D Pro). But if the Thrustmaster A10 would have yaw axis, I would get that instead, because it's fantastic to use, but requires pedals :/
I love the x55. I couldn't live without the yaw on the side of the stick for space sims.
Is CH Products still a good buy for the 200-300 range? Like the Fighterstick and Throttle...? After watching Ralfi's review, I can already make an informed observation that the DMS could get in the way of the trim, though. ...and no rotaries.
I was pretty disappointed at first when I got my X-55 for the exact reasons you mention but after using it I'm now pretty comfortable shifting my hand around when I need to access the top button and hat but they're not used all the time anyway so not too much of an issue. I agree it should be better designed (I was pretty shocked to find that the rest isn't adjustable, I thought this has always been a standard feature of joy sticks) but I'm used to it now and absolutely love it overall. Still, if you're thinking of buying it you should take these issues into account. I won't be buying an expensive piece of kit like this again without trying it first.
Ok, so I already have the Warthog and I am looking for a cheaper stick to use in WT, RoF.. etc. In your opinion should I stick with X52 PRO or get an X55? You did send tha x55 back, but that was because it offer an worse overall experience then 52 PRO, or because the upgrade is not worth it?
What is your opinion on the X-65? I have been thinking about getting one purely for the force-sensing. But for the price I could also get a Warthog. I just have issue with sticks being way too loose feeling on my wrist.
So you want a $200 joystick to work like a $400 joystick? Guess car reviewers should start comparing Hondas to BMW's.
No. Not "work" like a $400 joystick. He has zero problems with materials. But the layout? Didn't know some ppl thought a logical layout was something only a $400 HOTAS would have. Funny how CH got it right while being made entirely out of plastic.
+TheNextGenGuy No, he want´s to be able to reach the peddals and steeringwheel in his Honda without putting strain on his appendages. Comfortabley reaching the controls is something any car should be able to pull off.
I ordered a 'Saitek (MadCatz) X52 Pro' from Amazon, and they sent an X55 Rhino. Initially I thought 'AWESOME'. Then I started to try an use it. Not awesome. The left throttle silver rotary, the KI (K1?) throttle button, throttle SLD, and throttle mouse nipple were unprogrammed. I attempted to program the left throttle rotary and set to mouse wheel, and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENED. I programmed the mouse nipple, and I had erratic responses (X and Y were often) reversed. Didn't even bother with KI and SLD. Totally agree with layout issues on the stick and throttle, it's awful.
Why on Earth Amazon decided to send an X55 instead of an 'X52 Pro' which is what I ordered, I have no idea. They offer a refund upon return, but I still have to pay for PnP, which is fairly substantial. They do not seem to offer a replacement item, which is VERY poor.
Sorry for the rant. I do not like the X55.
+Jonathan Simon Beeston Hello again. Slight correction. Amazon offer free collection via DPD. And did I mention that I HATE THE X55. Awful for 'Elite Dangerous'. I do not have the hands of a giant.
I just have a logitech 3d pro......
im getting star citizen and 2 t16000m's tomorrow. gg. 2 sticks for 100 euro. this hotas crap is crap. too much money and the t16000m or the one you have are not that bad in comparison.
Lol I upgraded to one this year, that says something..
@@dustinglenn7480 I managed to finally, after years of suffering through cheap DS2 knock offs and wonky mouse setups, upgrade to a joystick, because they are super expensive where i live. Managed to snag a t16000m for abut 30 usd cheaper than the logitech usually goes for.
I've had a 3D Pro, the X55 and now a Hotas Warthog. The 3D Pro is faaar superior to the X55 in every way. It has way more precision and is very smooth. It's even smoother than the Hotas Warthog due to the Hotas Warthog's stiction issue.
@@rubiconnn dude this is a 3 year old comment. i've long since upgraded to a full virpil setup
Hey ralfidude, if the X-55 is a dud for you and if the Mad-Katz version of the X-52 makes it less than ideal as a purchase, what "recreational" stick are you going to gravitate to in the end? Or is the jury still out on that one?
You couldn't operate the throttle pinkie? You couldn't work out how to change the stick spring? You couldn't screw the stick on without crossing the thread? For the ED thrusters, I put up and down on the throttle pinkie and left and right on the two adjacent buttons. Works better than a hat because you can fire them interdependently. No HOTAS is perfect and the x55 is no exception and some of your criticisms are valid.
Lol I had to laugh, I know you're making a serious point ( and a very valid one at that) but I honestly could help laughing at around ten minutes in when you go from explanation to close to rage with the " what the actual fuck".
Any experience with the CH fighterstick? Peopel complain about the center being clunky because of the cross movement in difrent axis.
I got DCS World along with a new CyberPower Gamer Infnity 8000, so now I'm hooked on flying in DCS even with just keyboard and mouse. I have to say, if I go for HOTAS, @ralfidude I'm gonna go straight for the REAL Warthog HOTAS. Thanks for posting this video. You probably save a lot of people a lot of time and headaches making these videos and showing your hands on device so we can see to scale. Clearly the more expensive one is the way to go if you can afford it. Otherwise I would just stick to keyboard and mouse. Makes no sense to me buying a HOTAS unless it's top of the line and doesn't give you carpal tunnel.
I had the issue with the pins but reconnecting it fixed that. I didn't have as many issues as ralfidude because I have larger thin hands so I can reach all the stick buttons just fine.... I have never liked nor used the base of sticks (I am weird). The two buttons on the throttle I agree with... so many times I have tried to switch screens in the A-10C and end up hitting the wrong direction, but I have gotten used to it after many hours.
I think the reason I like the X-55 is what ralfi mentioned at the end... I have nothing to compare it to besides my crappy cyborg evo pro stick.
I have one question:
Is it possible to use only the Stick of the HOTAS system? I would like to purchase this one since i cant use pedals at my current state and would like to mix it with my CH-ProThrottle since i dont want to use any other throttle ever again.
There is a new x56 Rhino coming out, which addresses your problem with the sick layout, with an adjustable platform for your hand to sit on.
also might have fixed some of your other issues
have had one of these a while, agree with the points made. I'll add another. the soft touch plastic goes ... gooey and needs to be removed with isopropyl alcohol. basically i've bought a warthog - can only suggest to not cheap out on this stuff as you end up re-buying proper gear anyway. either buy a cheap quality stick and make do without some functions using voice attack or similar while saving for something decent, or save up for a decent stick in the first place.