My old karate teacher would have loved the KOT Guy, he had us walk and jog backwards, and do gentle full bend knee squats. RIP Sensei, you were a smart man!
Japanese in particular are movement masters. They even all have group warm-ups at work where they go through a series of gentle short movements using their comfortable ranges of motion. It's really interesting especially how efficient and systematic Japanese society is
Yup my Taekwondo masters have us do basically the same things. I honestly would recommend any eastern martial art to everyone especially with how important flexibility is to majority of them.
I've been using some of KOT's training. I would say that the most IMPORTANT thing is to start with low intensity on all the moves. Even with walking, or running backwards, using body weight, or with resistance, it's very important to start with low intensity, and build up from there.
My knees pop sometimes with certain motions. My knees have always been easy to pop. I'm not sure if that's just natural or if I'm moving incorrectly. But it's simple things like bending down
@@jaleelserrano9037 popping isn't necessarily bad as long as not painful. Think about cracking your knuckles. It's just a shift in pressure fluid within the knee joint capsule. Either because your range is limited and so fluid not used to shifting around as much. Or you have full range and not the end range muscular strength to support the joint structure to its fullest potential. Again, I would not view it as bad. Just that you need to improve your motion or take your progressions gradually.
I have had knee surgery. both the surgeon and physical therapist basically told me to be sedentary. The surgeon told me the only exercise I should ever do again is swimming. (partial knee replacement) This is from someone at a very well respected hospital in NYC (HSS). Why does the medical community seem to tell everyone to stop being athletic if they have a knee issue? Why aren't they recommending programs like KOT guy offers? This is the question that needs to be answered.
Dude I just had Achilles tendon surgery 2 months ago, the surgeon told me I could definitely do sports if I do the physio right. a friend of mine tore his this week , had surgery and the surgeon told him he should forget about doing sports ever again. I live in France but it’s juste crazy how inconsistent doctors can be with what they tell their clients
Hey Phil, how are things coming along for you? I was recently diagnosed with a thinning meniscus and told I should definitely stop squatting heavy below 90 degrees by two different doctors, and probably take it pretty easy with the weights in general. I was a bit shocked as I just had some light knee pain now and again with certain movements, but thought I should get it checked out, just in case. I was surprised and bummed to find out I have, at least currently, irreparable damage to my meniscus. Hopefully, someday soon, they'll find a way reliably repair cartiledge, but as far as I can tell, we're not there yet. I've been looking online, and HSS in NY seems like the most legitimate entity to claim to repair cartiledge in the knee. What do you think of them?You can find lots of stem cell transplant places, but it looks like there's no scientific evidence to back that up, and those clinics look dubious at best.
You hit the nail on the head as to why 99.999% of athletes won’t be world class, they can’t stick with the program. No one ever sees all the work and time world class athletes put in.
That’s because we have jobs, kids, school etc. World class athletes sole job is to be an athlete. I don’t have hours a day to dedicate to become an athlete unfortunately.
@@IrishMexican sticking with a program and the duration of the program per session are very different things. We realize that life happens and things get busy. Which is why I think you would find our programs at sports rehab expert and @kneesovertoesguy workouts to be very efficient and time friendly.
So well said.... 99% of people that catch some fame aren’t appreciated for the years and years they have spent getting to a place where they happen to catch that fame. Successful people don’t just get lucky (most of the time) Appreciate the work!
I'm a 71 year old woman who is a cycling Track athlete and in training for the World Masters Track Championships in September. I train on the Velodrome three times a week and road cycle 2 days a week. Lost October I was caving into knee replacement. I visited my Ortho surgeon and I told him I had a theory about my gait. He suggested I see a gait specialist and NOT HAVE the surgery. I did and my knee felt better, but not good enough to compete at a high level. I found KOT. I've only been doing it for two weeks and I actually can feel my legs and VOM getting stronger. I'm not expecting over night success, but I can see the benefits of these moves. TAKE IT SLOWLY, BE CONSISTENT AND KEEP IN FORM and this program maybe what you're looking for... I know it's working to build up my strength regardless and can do nothing but good. Each move comes with exceptionally clear instructions, the why and alternatives so you can improve. What have you got to loss except not getting stronger!
Great video. I'm a 60 yr. old with bad genetics and a trashed right knee. I've been walking backwards, doing tibialis and calf raises and working on range of motion for a month or so. I'm starting to see results and I appreciate your perspective and reminding me that it will take years. I wish I had this info 40 years ago when I first hurt my knee. Keep up the good work. Guys like you help people more than you know.
I had a question about supermans: Stuart McGill from Backfit Pro studied herniated disc s and says supermans are bad. Worse with increased loads. Should KOTG supermans be replaced with bird dogs? spinehealth.org/breaking-down-the-exercises-that-break-down-your-spine/
@@footLogic yea I am very familiar with McGill's work. He has a lot of solid concepts. But the research is also done on cadaver. Bird dogs are also a VERY low level exercise. Supermans and Jefferson curls are on either end of the spectrum of neutral spine. A bird dog would be in the middle. If you just train bird dog, you will only ever be prepared for the middle of the spectrum and when the task requires you to go outside the middle of the movement spectrum that's when something likely would go wrong.
I've been through Ben's ATG Zero program basically twice at this point. Last March I could barely walk without my knee cap clicking, and getting massive IT band pain, had very little musculature in my glutes and quads. Now, my left leg is fully functional, I can support my weight and my musculature and flexibility is the best it has been, ever. I still have imbalances from my left to my right side, but that will correct over time. I've been to physical therapists, and their programs were honestly milktoast. I really didn't get any improvement after several months. After 6 weeks of Zero, I had seen more results then in 6 months of PT. Of course, you need to be mindful of your body's condition, and consult your physician before doing any physical activity. But if you're ready, the ability to start where you're at and progressively increase range and weight is pretty stunning. Good programs hit everything. My ankles have never felt stronger, and the back of my knees are thick with muscle now. I've never really had that before. Great video, and I appreciate you looking out for people. The ATG program was a life changer for me.
Thanks for posting this video. This is exactly what I wanted but didn’t want to do a 45 min exam with my doctor of physical therapy just to ask him his opinion on this guy’s program.
People don't like hearing that results take years to reach, excellent point to make for those wanting to follow his routines I just found your channel, I can already see you have covered so many high quality exercises Cant wait to look through them to see what else I can add to my workouts
Great video. Im 6 months out of ACL surgery and just started implementing the Knee Ability Zero program. I pushed the ATG Split squat too far and had massive fluid buildup to the point I lost 50% ROM. Went on prednisone to reduce the inflammation. It's very important to not push it.
I really like the way you approach this topic. You gently emphasize the importance of going slow. You see the tendency of people to want to perform the final task without taking the time. I think that KOT guy DOESN’T emphasize this enough but instead shows off his final results…
Thank you! I think its so important to recognize this. Its also hard on social media to realize when someone displays very flexible or feats of strength. Its hard to appreciate how long that takes to develop. It also very possible that the person was naturally more flexible. Some people also pack on muscle much quicker then others. Genetics do play a role despite what influencers want you to believe that one exercise will make them more flexible or build a bigger muscle. A lot more nuanced then that!
Thank you. I was getting excited to level up quickly but this helped me realize there is no rush and now I feel like I’ll get even more out of KOT training if I take my time. Thx again.
Let me throw this here. I am 63 yrs old and play soccer professional for 8 yrs to cut short by knee injury. I never had surgery and decided to stop play and no even do therapy. I was 28 y old. During the years I begun to spend time to understanding my knee pain and created some exercises that was giving me comfort to a point to even play and coach. But the problem always was there. What i noticed that wheb i was consist doing the exercise i wad bending my knee more, however, i got scared to push forward or attempt to even do some exercises from the knee guy. Two months ago, i found one of his videos talking about walking backward. I do alot walking long distance about 2 to 3 hous once per week but never tough walking backward, i tryed for a month , i did on the beach pushing a bag of sand and on track field, on the second week i did walking first then stretching and tried one more of his exercises, wow! Almost 34 yrs that i couldn't bend my knee, i start to squat, i just blow me out. But you are 100% right, results is not going to hsppen just like that, need efforts, consistent to have the courage to face the pain, it will minimizes, but takes time. Also, as you mention, some people like me even being on my 63 yrs old, I was an athlete and my body still have all that flexibility and strength and i still athlete active on my exercises even not playing anymore. The knee over toe to me is legit, unfortunaly back then i didn't had no doctors or therapists to told me my problems could be fixed with exercises, other wise i had never quit play professional. I am not sign in his program as i explain, but as you also said, things takes time, and if you don't know your problem, consult a professional and he will help you to best select and coach you with the knee guy program step by step to be safe that you will going to get better. Good luck!
I think it's great that your biggest critique of Ben is not on him or his program at all, it's that people won't listen to him and want the quick fix. That could be said of literally any program. Any person who has taken an ATG class and submitted a video of them stepping up too quickly or doing improper form will have Ben and his team commenting on your within 24 hours telling you to regress your movement so you do it correctly.
I think that may be the hardest part. In my younger days I would train super hard and do multiple sets to failure. Over time I've had to learn to be more patient and consistent. Its actually hard for me not to do set after set when I get warmed up. Forcing myself to stop and working out more often but less intensly is starting to pay off. My back pain is basically gone and my knees are very slowly starting to get better.
Thank you for taking the time to back what I feel is a 100% good thing! And reiterating that it doesn't happen over night for people, this is key i believe. 👍👏👏👏👏👏
I have to say I was skeptical of kneesovertoesguy at first- seemed like too much TH-cam hype to be true but I can honestly say it’s working for me and I’m very surprised by how quickly. I’ve had 4 knee surgeries and have suffered through knee pain for many years- still doing what I love, but always nursing knee pain of one sort or another. I’ve done numerous PT programs- all of which have been helpful but the structure and specific of KOT is really great. I’m barely 2 weeks in to Zero and my knees feel better than they have in years. This is the real deal for me
Great review Greg ! Been doing some of his exercises and incorporating these movements and been enjoying him - gotta have you on the channel soon and catch up 🤙🤙
This is a great breakdown. I'm a huge fan of and user of Ben's training, but as you mention, I tried to go too quick at first, and I ended up injuring my back pretty bad going too ham on Jefferson Curls and Seated Goodmornings. That's not Ben's fault at all, and he goes out of his way to emphasize regression options and provides a great entry level starting point with the ZERO Program, but I agree that it's worth noting.
Thank you for the honest feedback on his program. I have been doing the beginning level for almost a month now and am seeing a nice steady progression of results.
This the most honest and thoughtful review of KOT I have come across. Hat off to you. It's a month I am about to sign off the KOT program because of my meniscus tear, and you have got exactly what has been keeping me in doubt. For instance the Jefferson curl, since I also have a lumbar protrusion. The good news is now you have convinced me that with the right approach and humility it is worth trying. Great job!
I appreciate that! I was slow to come around to the Jefferson curl as well. I think knee over toe and full spine flexion are very similar in that we should not avoid them. However, I think the scalability of the knee over toe movement is much more friendly to adjust with pain. The Jefferson curl and spine flexion doesn't really have that adjustability to work through pain. So if you have pain, do the other movements and come back to the jefferson curl later. When doing the jefferson curl, no linger pain/discomfort should occur. Muscle workout stiffness is very possible, but that is very different then pain and does not linger as long. Important distinctions to make! Thanks for watching :)
Thank you so much for replying , you got another subscriber 😊. Yes my lumbar situation has healed, it is more of a psychological blockage which I know I have gradually to get rid of because if you don't use it you lose it they say... Cheers
no bs'ing you, but i tore my quad twice. (second time was 2.5 months after my first surgery) this was like 2 years ago maybe.. nothing has made my knee feel normal again until I started doing the ATG KOT stuff. kotg is the truth man.
@@dzl3918 just for context, had i started this program 4 yrs ago when first finding kotg, i would be back full strength by now, but i instead had a similar doubtful attitude toward it after 3 acl reconstructions over 15 year span. Been on zero for 5 or 6 weeks and so many things i could do now without pain that i could not before
Great video! Thank you! I'm having difficulty with being patient and not pushing myself too hard with my knee rehab so this was so encouraging to hear you talk about how long these things take to adapt and improve. Many thanks
Greg, we need to send a bison and vegetable gift basket to Ben for all these views we are getting analyzing his system. Great video. Very articulate and it's obvious you have a passion for our profession and a desire to share the message that movement is medicine! Keep up the good work 👍 Tim
Hey Tim! lol yea I know huge thanks to Ben! Saw your video as well and love the at home Nordic variation. I had not seen that option before. Super helpful! Subscribed to your channel to keep up with what you guys are doing as well. Thanks!
What you’re saying about him not really addressing people with comorbidities is true , but he also talks about how the sled is the best tool to get you started whatever your size or weight, because you don’t directly bear the weight . He says some obese people start with a program and might try to do squatts and deadlifts in between cardio sessions which actually further compromises joints that are already dealing with their own body weight. The sled gets that circulation going in the ankles and knees and should be the foundation ( according to him) of any program. I personally think bike training at a low intensity ( zone 1 or 2) is a good option for overweight people. You can do it at home in front of the TV , you can’t really fall off the bike like you would outdoors and It can be done two or three times a week ( 20 or 30 minute sessions at first ). The advantage is you can track you HR to really know if you’re working at the right intensity. So the sled for the joints, ( it does work your cardio respiratory system also but the joints is the the real focus here)and the bike training for cardiovascular work. After a period of time the client can start implementing the easiest movements from his system .
Great insight! It would be nice to see what this type of training can lead. I.e. (increase in sarcomere length and changes in muscle architecture). Also the effect on joints (compression forces and segmental forces). You have a new follower!
I kept trying to find some fault with Knees Over Toes Guy, some hint of charlatanism, but I can't find anything to seriously criticize. Yeah, it's not new material. And he demonstrates really advanced fitness, which most folks shouldn't attempt without working up to it carefully. But he does consistently emphasize carefully working up to this point. And his enthusiasm and positive attitude appeal to many viewers. My only complaint -- not really a complaint -- was that I was hoping to discover some new miracle PT technique for my usual aches and pains from running and cycling. Nope. Same stuff, but as he emphasizes, it takes dedication and time to recover. Even now in my 60s I still get impatient with recovery from nagging minor injuries and tend to rush back to running and cycling without giving physical therapy time to work. Sometimes it takes weeks but I want to get back on the road in days.
I love this guy's videos. I realized I couldn't do a proper squat at 30 years old, and have since made some great gains in mobility with this new influx of channels discussing ROM, natural movements, and now this type of strength. My problem now, is that my ankles are so stiff that I can't seem to increase my flexibility, despite being pretty strong all around in my legs.
Ankles can be stubborn and take awhile to change. Find something daily you can work on, then stack on top of that something a bit more aggressive you do 2-4x per week to help promote changes as well
I signed up for the KoT program with the hope of increasing my hip flexor mobility and working up to get back mobility stuff but along the way I went too quickly with the split squats and hurt both my knees. I never felt pain while doing the exercises until a day or two later so it was hard for me to realize what had happened until it was too late. Been struggling to get back to healthy level now and I wish there was a more systematic progression for people who want to move through the program extra conservatively alongside whatever activities they already do. 28 surfer with low body weight and very active. Four years of chronic back pain. Going to check out your site, thanks for the helpful video.
Hey Alex, thanks for watching the video! Sorry to hear about the injury. Not uncommon for something to pop up after the exercises are over a day or 2 later. It does make it confusing to navigate. My website online is more geared towards teaching other rehab clinicians. If you are ever interested in online training or a rehab program feel free to email me at greg@sportsrehabexpert.com anytime!
I just found your channel because of researching "Knees Over Toes". I'm glad I did. I love your channel. Ben Patrick is very up front that he didn't invent any of his exercises and acknowledges doing a ton of research to find out how to over come his injuries. Over time he was able to hone in on key factors that helped him improve his joint stability, range of motion, strength and explosiveness.
I really appreciate this video. Your knowledge and qualifications to speak on this subject come through, but your humility is really cool to see. I've been excited to start the KOT program, I like what he says and the results seem legit. I also really like your approach and I'm going to check out your website because I've had a pain in the left side of my lower back for the last two years that I can't figure out how to resolve. It prevents me from doing kettlebell swings, which isn't a big deal, but I also occasionally feel it when I run and sprint. Anyway, just wanted to say I thought this was a great video and thanks for sharing your thoughts from your perspective.
Glad you enjoyed the video! My website is built more for the rehab clinician education, but I do work with people online at a training/rehab level if you would ever like to do so. Best way to get started is emailing me greg@sportsrehabexpert.com and we can discuss the programs and your goals.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I'm impress with his work and having recently experience a knee set back by doing a unplanned moves (Spontaneous move) I was looking for some information or exercises for improving my knee, from mussel pains. It has been 9 weeks from the incident and I took some times of to rest my knee and leg. I was constantly doing my regular routine every morning, my objective was trying to sit on my knee in, "Iaido seiza position." After 7 month of daily workout for one hour a day I have managed to feel comfortable in doing it successfully. All it took was to do a simple insignificant move (Single Pirouettes) normal for me, that a pain on the lateral epicondyle close to the patella suddenly I experienced a acute pain. It was a foolish move. Fortunately after a little wile I was able to walk and the pain went away, no redness or swelling but on and of, the pain kept on coming back at different places, and at different days of the week. each mussel on different days around the patella in the lower leg wear giving me discomfort and reduced my ability to move. I have continued Tai Chi movements occasionally with no problem but reduce the days of practice. Since the incident and taken time off to rest I feel ready to start again but a little hesitant fearing surprises. I know that if I start my regular routine on the floor will not be a problem, I will stop at the slightest discomfort but afraid of my knee if sitting in "Seiza position" I have not dared yet, it can be a challenge to start over again. It was coming along fine even if my quads wear not resting completely on my lower legs. What I find Interesting is as you said, "Been able to be consistent for a long period of time which I was and then take time of doing some thing else." The past 9 weeks I did take time of, reducing my movement, the knee feels better but I will be cautious this time and see how far can I go. I have a objective, Thank you.
Interesting video with some good, sensible advice. I'm 71, and in good health - go the gym 7 days a week. Problem is I have bone on bone, so can't walk as far as I want. Around a month ago I started walking backwards for a short while each day.. Perhaps its wishful thinking, but things seem a wee better. Easier to get out of bed, and easier to get out of a chair. I know its early days yet, but I'll keep it up. I realise these things don't happen overnight. I'm reluctant to have knee replacement when there may be other possibilities to explore. Thanks for the video. Good viewing.
I had some knee pain for over a year & then sharp burning pains for a couple of weeks. I couldn't walk but could just about hobble along. I done the backward walking for 2 days & the pain is almost gone. I'm now in the process of doing some of his other excercises (sled pulls etc) to get to the stage where I can run again.
It’s amazing how injuries and self discovery can build motivation and excitement to experiment and share your experiments. That’s how I see the the knees over toes guy. He isn’t inventing a ton but he is reworking it, matching it up in a easy to execute way and explaining it all in depth for the layperson. His program also isn’t super expensive, which makes me want to give it a go.
Just skip to the “negatives quote… Do you have a good point but it’s almost like they were your positives if that makes any sense… You have a good point.✌🏻✌🏻
Ben, I don't see any negatives. You have a great site and just keep doing what your doing. I have benefited greatly from your work. I think this "doctor" would benefit from your work with an open mind.
You really didn't watch the video and are obviously new to my channel. As I use many of the ATG principals and Charles Poliquin style training. My only negative of the program was aimed at the user. Ben does a great job of telling people that regression is the key to progression. However, individuals ego get in the way because they want to progress faster then what many people are capable of. So it was a warning to the user that it takes time and not to let ego push you to quickly.
Thanks for your unique perspective Greg. It was well said when you described the hesitancy many people will have due to the heavy emphasis in physical therapy is to avoid training your knees going over the toes, as well as the incredible movements he is capable of for his marketing purposes. It sounds like the only downside you see is that seeing the feats of extreme athleticism can give people the wrong idea and make them impatient to achieve those movements without building an incredible foundation first to do it safely and healthily. But, when adopting his training methods at the lowest level and patiently and consistently trying to progress slowly, those methods do not carry an inherent risk greater than any other training methods. Is that accurate? Btw I'm just thinking from a PT patient perspective, trying to minimize knee pain, not the extreme strength training and athleticism he demonstrates. Thanks again!
You make great points, yesterday I did the ATG split squat and since I have pretty good mobility I could do it with the heel down without a step or anything so I overestimated my capabilities and loaded it (only 10kg). During the exercise I was fine, no pain, but a few hours after the workout I started feeling pain in my left knee (I had already had trouble with that one). The thing is, I had already done that same exercise with the same load the week before and didn´t have any problems. Maybe it was a combination of different factors. This was only yesterday though and the pain is already receding, so I'll keep in mind what you say in this video and not rush into it! Thanks!!
You mentioned grandma level. Lol Can you recommend one of your posts to review for knee strengthening and conditioning and weight regimen and exercises for perfectly healthy 60 year women 5’ just beginning to feel the knees going up stairs? I already have been lifting ankle weights and bar bell at really low levels for 3 years.
Here is a good place to start. This can be graded to your comfort depending on number of reps/sets as well as height of steps or incline of slant: th-cam.com/video/5hfpl0w4M8g/w-d-xo.html
I think that perhaps Ben's approach appears new as a consequence of physical therapists typically having only brief contact with "knee pain" patients because of insurance. I wonder what sort of program of rehab + athletic "bulletproofing" the PT field would come up with if they were able to actually be paid for a length of time sufficient for such a result. I also wonder where the field would be today if this had been the standard for the last 20 years. There would probably have been multiple revelations in that period of time. The fact is, a handful of sessions with a PT is not enough to see a patient go from broken to bulletproof. Personal trainers have sort of picked up those pieces, and I think that's problematic for both professions and their clients. That said I think Ben's methods are great, and they have helped me deal with my own knee pain -- I just wish one of the PTs I went to for help had given me this 10 years ago. In fact, they had the responsibility to, and instead, I got a printout of ineffective old lady exercises with no system of progression. Not to say that "all PTs are like that" or whatever, but a fair few of them are, which makes Ben's message pure gold for people in pain who have been failed by years in and out of PT. He even mentions that his search for curing his own knee pain had its genesis in ineffective PTs. After all, if his PT was effective he wouldn't have had to go to Poliquin, et al to figure it out.
100% right! I got out of the insurance pigeon hole 5 years ago and its been freeing to work with patients longer. That being said, the insurance model is what we are in right now and PTs could be doing a better job within that model. That's been my goal at sportsrehabexpet.com to address this and change the way healthcare providers practice, creating a more hypbrid approach between rehab and performance. After all the 2 should never really be separate!
I got better results from the introductory ZERO program than from the next higher one "DENSE". I'm on his 3rd program now called STANDARDS and I feel I'm progressing again. Not sure why the second program was sketchy here and there but I guess it is hard to progress linearly. I'm excited to continue the programs and to continue posting my progress and results on my channel each time I finish one :)
I don't think the negatives you describe are really negatives of Ben's approach. I really don't see how he could emphasize more the necessity of going slowly. He constantly stresses that any exercise can be "regressed," i.e. made as easy as a person needs to make it to be performed without being injured. I appreciate this, because, as an athletic person, I can push too hard, expecting faster results. But that is my problem, not Ben's. Also, he has a starting point he calls knees ability zero which anyone can do, consisting of walking backwards and tibialis raises. Other exercises like the Step Down, soleus raise and split squat can soon be added. I think that even an obese person can do the starter exercises, except for the split squat.
You don't need to have an open mind you just have to observe reality. Doctors, with traditional training, have no idea what they are talking about. They write prescriptions for painkillers and move you along, this is self evident. You don't need an open mind you just have to ask yourself do I still have pain? If so the doctors advice didn't work which is not a slur on the doctor just a statement of fact the problem comes when the doctors ego prevents him from acknowledging that he doesn't know the solution because this prevents the patient either finding a new helper or avoiding becoming another statistic on the opioid death mountain, or the litany of other stupid drugs intended for short term use but extended into perpetuity by robots "just following orders". I'd be careful of this doc as often as the ship sinks the rats sense it and leave so he might just be at the inception of the next scam for big pharma. I have a pretty sound rule, only stay in the hospital for a day and only take a prescription for a week and only follow an expert for a month then stop and reevaluate or discontinue, exceptions apply.
@@unclekerr4369 holy cow that long winded conspiracy theory almost gave me a stroke. Dude I’m a nurse in an ER, 99% of our patients get ibuprofen, Tylenol, and a referral to orthopedics for a surgical consult or physical therapy. The medical field is doing a huge push away from opioid pain meds, to the point where pain isn’t getting controlled at all while the source of pain is in the process of being treated. We aren’t in 2005 anymore dude.
@@Jmack7861 You know you're getting close to the truth when someone calls you a conspiracy theorist. You are correct it is a different time but that doesn't mean the medical field can see itself, it just means we are at the end of one disaster and the start of another. Your testimony of authority about being an E.R nurse doesn't concern me, I just look at what happens as a result a persons actions, not a consensus not expert. I would welcome your help if I had an emergency as that is a legitimate field of medicine and I outlined that by saying i'd stay for one day in hospital. It wouldn't be my words that gave you the stroke, more likely a stress and diet issue, normally linked to insulin resistance.
@@Jmack7861 Doing a huge push away after killing hundreds of thousands of people with misinformed guidance, give yourself a clap. No offense, it's nothing personal against you, you just do what you are told and have no idea what is in the medicine you administer, some drug company could easily change the recipe and you'd have no idea.
I honestly could care less what a physical therapist thinks about kotg. Physical therapist have FAILED my flat feet, ankles, and knee pain all my life, but not the kotg. But other than that you did a great review.
R U SERIOUS?! HAM CALF TOUCHES IS GOOD FOR U?! THAT EXPLAINS SO MUCH! Recently while warming up on front squats I notice that when I do that my knees feel stronger afterwards and my squat session is better but when I avoid complete contact out of fear or complacency it doesn’t feel the same
Hey man, love the review, think it’s great stuff. Can you link the research you mentioned where it was positive and beneficial for the hamstring and calf muscle against eachother in a full knee bend? I’d love to read that research and see what is actually happening in that moment. I feel like that’s a huge teachable moment
I don't remember the specific link but I know I talk about it in this video again and show a picture of the article name: th-cam.com/video/GCMWOr9AnKk/w-d-xo.html
Hey do tib raises also help with posterior shin splints? If not whats another good exercise? Ive had this pain about a year and nothing seems to work. Really appreciate this video and all you do thanks!
As an exercise enthusiast, former athlete, and current occupational therapy student, would you mind sharing your references for the research into increasing the strength of ligaments, muscles, and tendons around the knee joint when performing exercises that go knees over toes? I've been having this discussion with several of my friends about whether there is research to support or debunk this guys claims. Anything you've found would be great!
i'm just wondering why the KOT guy was the one to popularize these methods, rather than a physical therapist or personal trainer. I really like the KOT guy and actually do several of his recommended exercises and feel they've been helpful to me, as well. I've always heard that knees over toes was bad, too, but he was the only one to have me think twice about it.
Well to be fair, there have always been plenty of therapists and trainers (myself included) out there that never thought knees over toes were bad!...Nobody else really developed the reach that Ben has created to make a sweeping change in the industry. So more power to him! That being said, it's still an extreme. And while knees over toes should not be avoided. There is a point of diminishing returns and risk/reward ratios start to change. Hence this video, cautioning people that these things take time!...There is a reason why no knees over toes was a thing to. By not putting your knees forward to take away stress from the knee and put it on the hip. Think RDL instead of squat. This can keep someone active while a sensitive knee calms down. The problem here is someone took this to the extreme as well. Saying that the knee going forward is always bad. The solution is always somewhere in the middle while both extremes have various levels of truth to it too. It's important people understand that its a spectrum and really depends on circumstances. But creating fear of movement is never the answer, which is why the no knees forward has been so bad for society. But shoving the knees forward more and more with heavier and heavier loads that the body was not ready to handle creates a different problem. I've seen plenty of people in my clinic who are in pain because they pushed this concept to aggressively for them. No fault of ben, just human nature to try and emulate.
@@jicalzad much appreciated! I think what KOT guy (Ben) is doing is great overall for the industry. Thanks for subscribing and glad you are enjoying the channel!
I appreciate the video, thanks. Got burned before with my lower back on p90x (pushed past the pain on jump squats was the culprit), so definitely want to make sure any workout regimen I do is legit.
Im not a huge fan of p90x either. But to be fair, if you push through pain in ANY program. The likelihood of being burned by the program is much higher
Glad to see this isn't direct criticism of kot guy. It's more criticism of none bespoke advice. The amount of patients who I see in clinic who have tried to self manage their pain with Internet advice is astonishing. I mean I'm all for becoming your own expert but there is no way of replacing one to one guidance. Extensive knowledge of progressions and regressions is a great tool to have in your arsenal.
can be a bit annoying but they go away and I wouldn't be to concerned about them. Probably has a large nutrition component to developing them. Also movement is good for the lymphatic system as well.
Been waiting for a PT to talk about it I personally did the program for a good while and sw results Tbh ,it's just single leg exercises lol that people thought were taboo but I'm happy Ben is breaking the taboo , the one where western medicine says we can't be knees over toes
100% been using most the single leg exercises for years in the clinic. He's helped people realize they can become strength movements instead of just bodyweight tap downs like most clinicians stick with for life lol. Eventually have to progress. His emphasis on extreme range at the knee I feel is unique as not many people focus on the benefits of achieving hamstring to gastroc contact. Obviously when you go this far, you have to be even more conscious of the load/reps.
Struggling with plantar fasciitis that has weakened my calves and even started to give me knee pain when running (track and cross country runner) or even after a long shift at work. Recently seen a lot of KOT and was wondering if the program would help. Still planing on starting official PT for the fasciitis but wondered if adding KOT would help or even be safe ? Awesome video by the way
Thanks Nolan, plantar fasciitis can be a pain in the butt sometimes. That being said a lot of the ankle work which is done in the program can be helpful. Let me know how it goes! Happy to provide you with some programing that has a mixture of KOT, rehab, and runner specific stuff as well
I had Right TKR on feb 1 2021. Im a weight lifter & former basketball 🏀 player. I added alot of KOT guy’s exercises 2 weeks ago. Im healing up rather quickly, luckily. My ankles are pretty sore right this second. I think I overdid some slant board/tibias exercises! 😂 Safe & prosperous training to all.
I also like the kneesovertoes guy and I think the way he has reframed these exercises in terms of performance are great. Could you explain a little bit further about how you mentioned tibialis anterior can improve performance in jumping? Is it just in terms of single leg jumping and the reciprocal 3 joint flexion of your non-jumping leg? I understand it in terms of preventing anterior 'shin splints' as it is a key decelerator in plantarflexion and eversion but I'm struggling to make the connection to jumping, especially to 2 leg jumps. Thanks!
It has to do with transitioning horizontal momentum into a vertical force. You have to create a "breaking" action with transition all the energy from running horizontally to direct the force vertically. Easier to see with one foot jumping. But in 2 foot jumpers in a L to R plant, the Left leg is the decelerator (or transition) of force vectors.
@@sportsrehabexperts I guess I can kind of reason along with that. Do you know of any articles that go into and give the biomechanics theories or demonstrable proof of this?
@@crabmeat88 no unfortunately the research is fixated on ACLs and valgus with standing vertical jump or landing from a step off a box (only looking at one force vector). Which neither of these actually relate to sport where we constantly manipulate force vectors. The tibialis is a prime example. Again, this muscle helps you decelerate or transition (whichever you would like to call it) horizontal to vertical. Easiest way to appreciate it is to see it. Here is a video of a 2 foot slow motion jump. Its a R to L plant. The right foot uses tibialis to transition: th-cam.com/video/jaI8DsdGcgA/w-d-xo.html
Yes, I wish Ben would include more examples of less physically capable people (through age, injury, etc.) being successful with his program. Although he does use his 65 year old mom as an example!
Look at his body weight program. In almost every video where he doesn’t use weights he shows multiple different levels to make the exercise easier or more difficult. I’m 30 but my knees are jacked and swell after any exercise so I’m not adding any weight and have been simply walking backwards, tib raises, split squat with my front leg raised (makes it easier), various stretches. Most of his exercises you can use some type of chair or bar to hold onto to help your balance and lessen the weight and difficulty of the exercise.
@@taylordoom6928 The ATG system is adaptable to almost any starting level, granted. But I'm looking for before and after examples. Right now, in the Zero program, you can't do a full split squat, even without weights. Do you expect to be able to graduate from Zero to the Dense program, which requires a full unassisted split squat, after 12 weeks? How much progress have some people made after being on the system for a full year? I'm a typical 61-year-old ex-athlete, with a typically wrecked body (knee surgery, shoulder surgery, hip replacement), who's two weeks into the Zero program. How far have others like me progressed in a year?
Thank you for the video 😀. I like your power lifting mentality ideas. I am a power lifter and my progress has been slow due to still working on mobility and thinking long term goals (5 year goals). What benefits do you think power lifters in general would get if they got rid of that mentality and really took blocks on to think about mobility and joint preparation rather than loading the bar every session? Do you think the progression would be similar?
Spending time on strengthening outer range and develop mobility it would likely allow them to continue training with less flair ups and stay in the game longer!
I have a question about hamstring/calf touching. You said that it creates a decompression but in cases like osteoperosis you actually want compression. So for people that don't have osteoperosis is there no problem? I'm looking at this purely from a movement standpoint. I don't plain on loading this movement but I've been doing bodyweight atg split squats because of KOT guy and my mobility has never been better. Oh yeah and the powerlifting mentality talk, I don't know many powerlifters that don't take mobility and exercise variety extremely seriously, just because a powerlifter becomes extremely efficient in three movements doesn't mean they neglect other movements. Really awesome video though, I just subbed.
Much appreciated! You do want graded compression with osteoperosis. You'd also want expansion too. Alternating between compression and expansion being able to tolerate both is a nice way of looking at it. So as you go down in squat, there will be retropatellar compressive forces that increase to a degree, then begin to decrease once you have hamstring to calf contact. This is referred to as the "wrapping effect" in the literature. I also did a new video on it today actually th-cam.com/video/GCMWOr9AnKk/w-d-xo.html
I read from another doc of PT that to "train" cartilage for cartilage healing you need thousands of reps at around 20% 1RM in one set 😛 Jewellers know it too !
I am 72 and wanting to avoid knee replacement for my osteoarthritic knees, the KOT programme seems a good idea and I hope over the next year to achieve squats and most important the ability to climb stairs which I can only do using one leg first at the moment. Have started doing the zero programme exercises, slow but sure.
What’s a shame is that you haven’t inserted diagrams, illustrations or examples of what you are talking about because you have to understand most people don’t understand the technical terms.
Great video! I have been diagnosed with patellofemoral pain syndrome and I have been when walking, even short walks in my neigboorhood. I have been trying his program for one week, and I dont get any pain from doing the exercises. Will this program help from pain when walking?
Thanks man! The fact you do not have pain with any of the exercises is a great sign that if you stay consistent with it likely it will be helpful for you! Let me know how it goes :)
Thank you I found this useful, one thing I’m curious on is you touched on ACL injuries, but what about meniscus injuries? I had a 1/3 or my medial meniscus removed at 16 as well as ACL repair. The ACL has been fine, but the meniscus has alway been problematic, either inflammation, sometimes slipping, and grinding. Range of motion has also alway been limited. I’ve been watching the knees over toes guy and been wanting to integrate his program in my routine, but was curious as to the affect on someone with meniscus issues and how they play into the deep knee bends that some of those exercises, and motions do.
Hey Ed, not sure how long its been in total. I know you said it was at 16 years old when it occurred. Biggest thing I would say is the meniscus was removed and the ACL was repaired. Meaning you could push the ACL more aggressively. With the meniscus removed, your cartilage and tissue can adapt which is the good news. However, it will not be a quick process but VERY gradual! Don't work through pain and load the range comfortable. But the volatility of the flair ups and sensitivity should reduce over time. Go into the idea with SLOW expectations.
Well I guess I left out that it’s been 20 years, I’ve done my best to stay active, basketball, running, cycling, lifting etc, but often have inflammation, I don’t have the full range of motion in my leg that has surgery, I can’t touch calves to thighs. I’ve given up on being able to dunk again lol just looking for quality not life to improve like with no inflammation. Thanks for taking the time to respond
@@edzinser9143 got it! A lot of the backward walking, jogging, sled pulls are probably a good idea in your circumstance. You may also need some lower level activities that still try to get the knee to bend without as much load if it continues to be sensitive. But you also could reach a point where you are happy enough with quality of life and decide not to push the envelope either. Obviously that's always your call based on how you feel! I have a video coming out tomorrow that will give you some ideas, but again use your better discretion before trying anything.
I was cringing hoping you were not going to dismiss him since it makes so much sense to me. Definitely the most important piece is the periodization. I did the stretches and immediately wanted to add weight...but I didnt. #ittakestimegrasshopper I just discovered KneesOverToesGuy this wk! Im subscribing to you for this response video too. 🙂 Thx Doc!
And yes, what about ex athletes like myself that wrestled in college, and played 20 years of competitive racquetball that have left me with compendium of injuries minor, and major that have given rise to a number of structural issues as well as performance issues.
I really appreciate this point of view--thanks. I am in my 40s, with OA in my right knee, pretty bad. I have a hard time getting my knee straight, and getting into a deep squat. Bad idea to keep pushing for range of motion in the knee? Or should I be pushing myself to get deeper into my squat???
There is a wide spectrum of what OA is...Doctors and surgeons tend to use this "diagnosis" very easily now and many times its just natural changes and nothing to worry about and training can resolve it. Sometimes though the boney adaptations are significant and you will want to be very cautions on how aggressively you push any of this. The cure and poison is in the dose.
@@sportsrehabexperts thank you for responding! I know I cannot get a diagnosis over TH-cam, but lots of sports, played basketball through college and then 3 knee tears in my late 20s and mid 30s (ACL/meniscus and then meniscus two more times). Kept running, lifting etc and then swelling and stiffness so bad, could not believe it would happen to me so young. One summer, was in so much pain at night, would've sawed off my leg if I had a saw. Things have gotten better, just trying to figure how far to push. As you say--cure and poison is in the dose! The two docs I've seen push cortisone and knee replacement at 50. Hoping to prove them wrong.
I'm very familiar with his protocols per say. Other then the stretches he shows. In general I'm in favor of the eccentric training to promote lengthening. But totally okay with superseting or including a couple stretches to complement it. I don't like forced stretches and feel you should be able to relax, breath, and be able to contract a muscle if asked while holding a stretch otherwise being to aggressive. Again he has A LOT of flexibility lol. Im sure some of that was developed over a long period of time because he makes it look easy. But would be interesting to know if he had any hypermobile tendencies back when he talks about all his injuries.
So the negatives are individuals may be not humble enough to progress slowly and safely. Also, certain injuries require even slower progressions for safety. Good points but why’d that take 10 minutes to explain?
I have no hate for KOT Guy. My concern is the concept of “following philosophies”. Gray Institute ALL THE WAY imo & my experience. It’s where I began my now never ending study of movement & how to analyze the movement of my personal training clients to create effective strategies toward their goals. It’s never a 1 size fits all endeavor. Though knees over toes IS an important part of appropriate movement & strength for effective movement whether it’s for a senior citizen or a competitive athlete.
I think it is good to have a wide lens of who you learn from for sure! I do the same. I actually worked for Gary Gray PT initially out of school, so very familiar with the thought process. Although I do find limitations in their school of thought as well (nothing bad about them, can find flaws in anything). I actually view Gary Gray the originator of the foot elevated split squat. I would do that on the TrueStretch with so many clients for beginner loading! Gary was also very big on the Anterior tap downs / anterior reach
Great video! And thanks for reminding me off the importance of the loading regiment. I have been doing zero for 4 weeks now and gained a lot more mobility and knee ability in my injured knee (fully torn meniscus with surgery 2 years ago). The thing with my meniscus is that when it snapt, I sort of was not “working through pain”, I had a rotation with the knee bent, and it just snapped out off nowhere, sort of. So my question is; do you think I should be carefull with loading the ATG split squat with weights after 12 weeks of zero (3 times a week), even with no pain? I am considering just keep using the ATG squat as a warmup/mobility exercise with no weight and start loading the Bulgarian split squat again, so I do not risk my meniscus tearing again. Thoughts? Also, some links for the studies you talked about in the start of your video would be great to see, so I can check out the studies myself.
Biggest factor will be the concept that this is a process! Bulgarian split squats are fine, but they are not the same as a standard split squat or ATG split squat. Do not push through the loading. No shame in elevating the foot on a box if that makes it more comfortable and gradually load through that ROM first before lowering to the floor. Or continue using upper body assist if doing the body weight version on zero. Or both upper body assist and foot elevated if necessary to make comfortable. As far as the research, its termed the "wrapping effect" pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23821469/
Apologies if I missed it, my biggest question with KOTG is can it help with plantar fasciitis and calf pain/twitching that is associated with those injuries? I haven't been able to run in years due to this. Would his program be beneficial to my recovery?
My old karate teacher would have loved the KOT Guy, he had us walk and jog backwards, and do gentle full bend knee squats. RIP Sensei, you were a smart man!
Japanese and Chinese were hundreds of years ahead in everything lol
@@critiquemytechnique2.0 It's more like we in the west went back in time
Japanese in particular are movement masters. They even all have group warm-ups at work where they go through a series of gentle short movements using their comfortable ranges of motion. It's really interesting especially how efficient and systematic Japanese society is
Yup my Taekwondo masters have us do basically the same things. I honestly would recommend any eastern martial art to everyone especially with how important flexibility is to majority of them.
@@critiquemytechnique2.0 Not so much in political systems. They can keep those.
I've been using some of KOT's training. I would say that the most IMPORTANT thing is to start with low intensity on all the moves. Even with walking, or running backwards, using body weight, or with resistance, it's very important to start with low intensity, and build up from there.
100% go at your pace and have patience with the process
My knees pop sometimes with certain motions. My knees have always been easy to pop. I'm not sure if that's just natural or if I'm moving incorrectly. But it's simple things like bending down
@@jaleelserrano9037 popping isn't necessarily bad as long as not painful. Think about cracking your knuckles. It's just a shift in pressure fluid within the knee joint capsule. Either because your range is limited and so fluid not used to shifting around as much. Or you have full range and not the end range muscular strength to support the joint structure to its fullest potential. Again, I would not view it as bad. Just that you need to improve your motion or take your progressions gradually.
I have had knee surgery. both the surgeon and physical therapist basically told me to be sedentary. The surgeon told me the only exercise I should ever do again is swimming. (partial knee replacement) This is from someone at a very well respected hospital in NYC (HSS). Why does the medical community seem to tell everyone to stop being athletic if they have a knee issue? Why aren't they recommending programs like KOT guy offers? This is the question that needs to be answered.
Dude I just had Achilles tendon surgery 2 months ago, the surgeon told me I could definitely do sports if I do the physio right.
a friend of mine tore his this week , had surgery and the surgeon told him he should forget about doing sports ever again.
I live in France but it’s juste crazy how inconsistent doctors can be with what they tell their clients
Hey Phil, how are things coming along for you? I was recently diagnosed with a thinning meniscus and told I should definitely stop squatting heavy below 90 degrees by two different doctors, and probably take it pretty easy with the weights in general. I was a bit shocked as I just had some light knee pain now and again with certain movements, but thought I should get it checked out, just in case. I was surprised and bummed to find out I have, at least currently, irreparable damage to my meniscus. Hopefully, someday soon, they'll find a way reliably repair cartiledge, but as far as I can tell, we're not there yet. I've been looking online, and HSS in NY seems like the most legitimate entity to claim to repair cartiledge in the knee. What do you think of them?You can find lots of stem cell transplant places, but it looks like there's no scientific evidence to back that up, and those clinics look dubious at best.
You hit the nail on the head as to why 99.999% of athletes won’t be world class, they can’t stick with the program. No one ever sees all the work and time world class athletes put in.
so true!
What really how about you are just not good enough. Junk
@@johnlloyd1638 What? How about replying back in English next time.
That’s because we have jobs, kids, school etc. World class athletes sole job is to be an athlete. I don’t have hours a day to dedicate to become an athlete unfortunately.
@@IrishMexican sticking with a program and the duration of the program per session are very different things. We realize that life happens and things get busy. Which is why I think you would find our programs at sports rehab expert and @kneesovertoesguy workouts to be very efficient and time friendly.
So well said.... 99% of people that catch some fame aren’t appreciated for the years and years they have spent getting to a place where they happen to catch that fame. Successful people don’t just get lucky (most of the time) Appreciate the work!
I'm a 71 year old woman who is a cycling Track athlete and in training for the World Masters Track Championships in September. I train on the Velodrome three times a week and road cycle 2 days a week. Lost October I was caving into knee replacement. I visited my Ortho surgeon and I told him I had a theory about my gait. He suggested I see a gait specialist and NOT HAVE the surgery. I did and my knee felt better, but not good enough to compete at a high level. I found KOT. I've only been doing it for two weeks and I actually can feel my legs and VOM getting stronger. I'm not expecting over night success, but I can see the benefits of these moves. TAKE IT SLOWLY, BE CONSISTENT AND KEEP IN FORM and this program maybe what you're looking for... I know it's working to build up my strength regardless and can do nothing but good. Each move comes with exceptionally clear instructions, the why and alternatives so you can improve. What have you got to loss except not getting stronger!
Nice Ariel! 100% agree
Great video. I'm a 60 yr. old with bad genetics and a trashed right knee. I've been walking backwards, doing tibialis and calf raises and working on range of motion for a month or so. I'm starting to see results and I appreciate your perspective and reminding me that it will take years. I wish I had this info 40 years ago when I first hurt my knee. Keep up the good work. Guys like you help people more than you know.
That's awesome to hear! An you are right, can be very hard to have patience sometimes. Much appreciated Jon!
I had a question about supermans: Stuart McGill from Backfit Pro studied herniated disc s and says supermans are bad. Worse with increased loads. Should KOTG supermans be replaced with bird dogs? spinehealth.org/breaking-down-the-exercises-that-break-down-your-spine/
@@footLogic yea I am very familiar with McGill's work. He has a lot of solid concepts. But the research is also done on cadaver. Bird dogs are also a VERY low level exercise. Supermans and Jefferson curls are on either end of the spectrum of neutral spine. A bird dog would be in the middle. If you just train bird dog, you will only ever be prepared for the middle of the spectrum and when the task requires you to go outside the middle of the movement spectrum that's when something likely would go wrong.
@@sportsrehabexperts many thanks!
I've been through Ben's ATG Zero program basically twice at this point. Last March I could barely walk without my knee cap clicking, and getting massive IT band pain, had very little musculature in my glutes and quads. Now, my left leg is fully functional, I can support my weight and my musculature and flexibility is the best it has been, ever. I still have imbalances from my left to my right side, but that will correct over time.
I've been to physical therapists, and their programs were honestly milktoast. I really didn't get any improvement after several months. After 6 weeks of Zero, I had seen more results then in 6 months of PT.
Of course, you need to be mindful of your body's condition, and consult your physician before doing any physical activity. But if you're ready, the ability to start where you're at and progressively increase range and weight is pretty stunning. Good programs hit everything. My ankles have never felt stronger, and the back of my knees are thick with muscle now. I've never really had that before.
Great video, and I appreciate you looking out for people. The ATG program was a life changer for me.
Do you recommend to pay for the monthly program or just follow through the books he has? Is it the same? What's the difference?
@@BIGNEM you can message him or his team for advice and you can provide them video to affirm your form is correct
As a happy and successful KOT customer I appreciate your honest and unbiased review. Spot on!
Thanks for posting this video. This is exactly what I wanted but didn’t want to do a 45 min exam with my doctor of physical therapy just to ask him his opinion on this guy’s program.
People don't like hearing that results take years to reach, excellent point to make for those wanting to follow his routines
I just found your channel, I can already see you have covered so many high quality exercises
Cant wait to look through them to see what else I can add to my workouts
Great video. Im 6 months out of ACL surgery and just started implementing the Knee Ability Zero program. I pushed the ATG Split squat too far and had massive fluid buildup to the point I lost 50% ROM. Went on prednisone to reduce the inflammation. It's very important to not push it.
I really like the way you approach this topic. You gently emphasize the importance of going slow. You see the tendency of people to want to perform the final task without taking the time. I think that KOT guy DOESN’T emphasize this enough but instead shows off his final results…
Thank you! I think its so important to recognize this. Its also hard on social media to realize when someone displays very flexible or feats of strength. Its hard to appreciate how long that takes to develop. It also very possible that the person was naturally more flexible. Some people also pack on muscle much quicker then others. Genetics do play a role despite what influencers want you to believe that one exercise will make them more flexible or build a bigger muscle. A lot more nuanced then that!
Thank you. I was getting excited to level up quickly but this helped me realize there is no rush and now I feel like I’ll get even more out of KOT training if I take my time. Thx again.
Most welcome! Yep the key is gradual progression
Let me throw this here. I am 63 yrs old and play soccer professional for 8 yrs to cut short by knee injury. I never had surgery and decided to stop play and no even do therapy. I was 28 y old. During the years I begun to spend time to understanding my knee pain and created some exercises that was giving me comfort to a point to even play and coach. But the problem always was there. What i noticed that wheb i was consist doing the exercise i wad bending my knee more, however, i got scared to push forward or attempt to even do some exercises from the knee guy. Two months ago, i found one of his videos talking about walking backward. I do alot walking long distance about 2 to 3 hous once per week but never tough walking backward, i tryed for a month , i did on the beach pushing a bag of sand and on track field, on the second week i did walking first then stretching and tried one more of his exercises, wow! Almost 34 yrs that i couldn't bend my knee, i start to squat, i just blow me out. But you are 100% right, results is not going to hsppen just like that, need efforts, consistent to have the courage to face the pain, it will minimizes, but takes time. Also, as you mention, some people like me even being on my 63 yrs old, I was an athlete and my body still have all that flexibility and strength and i still athlete active on my exercises even not playing anymore. The knee over toe to me is legit, unfortunaly back then i didn't had no doctors or therapists to told me my problems could be fixed with exercises, other wise i had never quit play professional. I am not sign in his program as i explain, but as you also said, things takes time, and if you don't know your problem, consult a professional and he will help you to best select and coach you with the knee guy program step by step to be safe that you will going to get better. Good luck!
Humility is so important. Start where you are, just like this guy is saying. You'll be surprised how far humility will take you.
100%! Start where you are 👊
I think it's great that your biggest critique of Ben is not on him or his program at all, it's that people won't listen to him and want the quick fix. That could be said of literally any program. Any person who has taken an ATG class and submitted a video of them stepping up too quickly or doing improper form will have Ben and his team commenting on your within 24 hours telling you to regress your movement so you do it correctly.
I think that may be the hardest part. In my younger days I would train super hard and do multiple sets to failure. Over time I've had to learn to be more patient and consistent. Its actually hard for me not to do set after set when I get warmed up. Forcing myself to stop and working out more often but less intensly is starting to pay off. My back pain is basically gone and my knees are very slowly starting to get better.
Wow, if thats real thats like next lvl customer support makes him even more likeable
Started the program 2 weeks ago. Getting stronger and more flexible daily.
Same
Thank you for taking the time to back what I feel is a 100% good thing! And reiterating that it doesn't happen over night for people, this is key i believe. 👍👏👏👏👏👏
I have to say I was skeptical of kneesovertoesguy at first- seemed like too much TH-cam hype to be true but I can honestly say it’s working for me and I’m very surprised by how quickly.
I’ve had 4 knee surgeries and have suffered through knee pain for many years- still doing what I love, but always nursing knee pain of one sort or another. I’ve done numerous PT programs- all of which have been helpful but the structure and specific of KOT is really great. I’m barely 2 weeks in to Zero and my knees feel better than they have in years. This is the real deal for me
Great review Greg ! Been doing some of his exercises and incorporating these movements and been enjoying him - gotta have you on the channel soon and catch up 🤙🤙
Thanks Josh! For sure, let's do a feature sometime. Can do a 1 for 1 on both our channels!
@@sportsrehabexperts I’m down ✌️ I’ll shoot u DM on IG
This is a great breakdown. I'm a huge fan of and user of Ben's training, but as you mention, I tried to go too quick at first, and I ended up injuring my back pretty bad going too ham on Jefferson Curls and Seated Goodmornings. That's not Ben's fault at all, and he goes out of his way to emphasize regression options and provides a great entry level starting point with the ZERO Program, but I agree that it's worth noting.
Thank you for the honest feedback on his program. I have been doing the beginning level for almost a month now and am seeing a nice steady progression of results.
Most welcome :) That's great to hear!
This the most honest and thoughtful review of KOT I have come across. Hat off to you. It's a month I am about to sign off the KOT program because of my meniscus tear, and you have got exactly what has been keeping me in doubt. For instance the Jefferson curl, since I also have a lumbar protrusion. The good news is now you have convinced me that with the right approach and humility it is worth trying. Great job!
I appreciate that! I was slow to come around to the Jefferson curl as well. I think knee over toe and full spine flexion are very similar in that we should not avoid them. However, I think the scalability of the knee over toe movement is much more friendly to adjust with pain. The Jefferson curl and spine flexion doesn't really have that adjustability to work through pain. So if you have pain, do the other movements and come back to the jefferson curl later. When doing the jefferson curl, no linger pain/discomfort should occur. Muscle workout stiffness is very possible, but that is very different then pain and does not linger as long. Important distinctions to make! Thanks for watching :)
Thank you so much for replying , you got another subscriber 😊. Yes my lumbar situation has healed, it is more of a psychological blockage which I know I have gradually to get rid of because if you don't use it you lose it they say... Cheers
@@raffosnow5429 funny how that saying has a lot of truth to it haha thanks for subscribing!
It's hard to believe KOTG had a quad tendon tear. I just had the surgery and cant see myself ever doing anything close to what he does ever again.
no bs'ing you, but i tore my quad twice. (second time was 2.5 months after my first surgery) this was like 2 years ago maybe.. nothing has made my knee feel normal again until I started doing the ATG KOT stuff. kotg is the truth man.
Patience is the key. Your body will heal over time.
Well that mindset def wont get u anywhere
@@nunyabidnezus8456 and your comment wasnt needed at all, but here we are bud.
@@dzl3918 just for context, had i started this program 4 yrs ago when first finding kotg, i would be back full strength by now, but i instead had a similar doubtful attitude toward it after 3 acl reconstructions over 15 year span. Been on zero for 5 or 6 weeks and so many things i could do now without pain that i could not before
Great video! Thank you! I'm having difficulty with being patient and not pushing myself too hard with my knee rehab so this was so encouraging to hear you talk about how long these things take to adapt and improve. Many thanks
Most welcome! Human nature and something to always double check ;)
Greg, we need to send a bison and vegetable gift basket to Ben for all these views we are getting analyzing his system. Great video. Very articulate and it's obvious you have a passion for our profession and a desire to share the message that movement is medicine! Keep up the good work 👍 Tim
Hey Tim! lol yea I know huge thanks to Ben! Saw your video as well and love the at home Nordic variation. I had not seen that option before. Super helpful! Subscribed to your channel to keep up with what you guys are doing as well. Thanks!
@@sportsrehabexperts Thanks Greg! Same with me. I Look forward to following your future content!
This is a very good and in-depth review. I appreciate it!
Most welcome!
What you’re saying about him not really addressing people with comorbidities is true , but he also talks about how the sled is the best tool to get you started whatever your size or weight, because you don’t directly bear the weight . He says some obese people start with a program and might try to do squatts and deadlifts in between cardio sessions which actually further compromises joints that are already dealing with their own body weight. The sled gets that circulation going in the ankles and knees and should be the foundation ( according to him) of any program. I personally think bike training at a low intensity ( zone 1 or 2) is a good option for overweight people. You can do it at home in front of the TV , you can’t really fall off the bike like you would outdoors and It can be done two or three times a week ( 20 or 30 minute sessions at first ). The advantage is you can track you HR to really know if you’re working at the right intensity.
So the sled for the joints, ( it does work your cardio respiratory system also but the joints is the the real focus here)and the bike training for cardiovascular work.
After a period of time the client can start implementing the easiest movements from his system .
I needed to hear the "be humble" part...thank you!
Great job with everything about this video. Keep it up brother! Peace and Love from two fitness fanatics at the Canada-Detroit border
Great insight! It would be nice to see what this type of training can lead. I.e. (increase in sarcomere length and changes in muscle architecture). Also the effect on joints (compression forces and segmental forces). You have a new follower!
Great ideas for future videos! Thanks for subscribing :)
I kept trying to find some fault with Knees Over Toes Guy, some hint of charlatanism, but I can't find anything to seriously criticize. Yeah, it's not new material. And he demonstrates really advanced fitness, which most folks shouldn't attempt without working up to it carefully. But he does consistently emphasize carefully working up to this point. And his enthusiasm and positive attitude appeal to many viewers. My only complaint -- not really a complaint -- was that I was hoping to discover some new miracle PT technique for my usual aches and pains from running and cycling. Nope. Same stuff, but as he emphasizes, it takes dedication and time to recover. Even now in my 60s I still get impatient with recovery from nagging minor injuries and tend to rush back to running and cycling without giving physical therapy time to work. Sometimes it takes weeks but I want to get back on the road in days.
Something we all fight, the urge for more sooner!
I love this guy's videos. I realized I couldn't do a proper squat at 30 years old, and have since made some great gains in mobility with this new influx of channels discussing ROM, natural movements, and now this type of strength. My problem now, is that my ankles are so stiff that I can't seem to increase my flexibility, despite being pretty strong all around in my legs.
Ankles can be stubborn and take awhile to change. Find something daily you can work on, then stack on top of that something a bit more aggressive you do 2-4x per week to help promote changes as well
@@sportsrehabexperts Thanks for the tips brother!
I signed up for the KoT program with the hope of increasing my hip flexor mobility and working up to get back mobility stuff but along the way I went too quickly with the split squats and hurt both my knees. I never felt pain while doing the exercises until a day or two later so it was hard for me to realize what had happened until it was too late. Been struggling to get back to healthy level now and I wish there was a more systematic progression for people who want to move through the program extra conservatively alongside whatever activities they already do. 28 surfer with low body weight and very active. Four years of chronic back pain. Going to check out your site, thanks for the helpful video.
Hey Alex, thanks for watching the video! Sorry to hear about the injury. Not uncommon for something to pop up after the exercises are over a day or 2 later. It does make it confusing to navigate. My website online is more geared towards teaching other rehab clinicians. If you are ever interested in online training or a rehab program feel free to email me at greg@sportsrehabexpert.com anytime!
I just found your channel because of researching "Knees Over Toes". I'm glad I did. I love your channel.
Ben Patrick is very up front that he didn't invent any of his exercises and acknowledges doing a ton of research to find out how to over come his injuries. Over time he was able to hone in on key factors that helped him improve his joint stability, range of motion, strength and explosiveness.
Thanks for the kind words Rob!
I really appreciate this video. Your knowledge and qualifications to speak on this subject come through, but your humility is really cool to see. I've been excited to start the KOT program, I like what he says and the results seem legit. I also really like your approach and I'm going to check out your website because I've had a pain in the left side of my lower back for the last two years that I can't figure out how to resolve. It prevents me from doing kettlebell swings, which isn't a big deal, but I also occasionally feel it when I run and sprint. Anyway, just wanted to say I thought this was a great video and thanks for sharing your thoughts from your perspective.
Glad you enjoyed the video! My website is built more for the rehab clinician education, but I do work with people online at a training/rehab level if you would ever like to do so. Best way to get started is emailing me greg@sportsrehabexpert.com and we can discuss the programs and your goals.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I'm impress with his work and having recently experience a knee set back by doing a unplanned moves (Spontaneous move) I was looking for some information or exercises for improving my knee, from mussel pains. It has been 9 weeks from the incident and I took some times of to rest my knee and leg. I was constantly doing my regular routine every morning, my objective was trying to sit on my knee in, "Iaido seiza position." After 7 month of daily workout for one hour a day I have managed to feel comfortable in doing it successfully. All it took was to do a simple insignificant move (Single Pirouettes) normal for me, that a pain on the lateral epicondyle close to the patella suddenly I experienced a acute pain. It was a foolish move. Fortunately after a little wile I was able to walk and the pain went away, no redness or swelling but on and of, the pain kept on coming back at different places, and at different days of the week. each mussel on different days around the patella in the lower leg wear giving me discomfort and reduced my ability to move. I have continued Tai Chi movements occasionally with no problem but reduce the days of practice. Since the incident and taken time off to rest I feel ready to start again but a little hesitant fearing surprises. I know that if I start my regular routine on the floor will not be a problem, I will stop at the slightest discomfort but afraid of my knee if sitting in "Seiza position" I have not dared yet, it can be a challenge to start over again. It was coming along fine even if my quads wear not resting completely on my lower legs. What I find Interesting is as you said, "Been able to be consistent for a long period of time which I was and then take time of doing some thing else." The past 9 weeks I did take time of, reducing my movement, the knee feels better but I will be cautious this time and see how far can I go. I have a objective, Thank you.
Interesting video with some good, sensible advice. I'm 71, and in good health - go the gym 7 days a week. Problem is I have bone on bone, so can't walk as far as I want. Around a month ago I started walking backwards for a short while each day.. Perhaps its wishful thinking, but things seem a wee better. Easier to get out of bed, and easier to get out of a chair. I know its early days yet, but I'll keep it up. I realise these things don't happen overnight. I'm reluctant to have knee replacement when there may be other possibilities to explore.
Thanks for the video. Good viewing.
I had some knee pain for over a year & then sharp burning pains for a couple of weeks. I couldn't walk but could just about hobble along. I done the backward walking for 2 days & the pain is almost gone. I'm now in the process of doing some of his other excercises (sled pulls etc) to get to the stage where I can run again.
It’s amazing how injuries and self discovery can build motivation and excitement to experiment and share your experiments. That’s how I see the the knees over toes guy. He isn’t inventing a ton but he is reworking it, matching it up in a easy to execute way and explaining it all in depth for the layperson. His program also isn’t super expensive, which makes me want to give it a go.
Just skip to the “negatives quote… Do you have a good point but it’s almost like they were your positives if that makes any sense… You have a good point.✌🏻✌🏻
Ben, I don't see any negatives. You have a great site and just keep doing what your doing. I have benefited greatly from your work. I think this "doctor" would benefit from your work with an open mind.
You really didn't watch the video and are obviously new to my channel. As I use many of the ATG principals and Charles Poliquin style training. My only negative of the program was aimed at the user. Ben does a great job of telling people that regression is the key to progression. However, individuals ego get in the way because they want to progress faster then what many people are capable of. So it was a warning to the user that it takes time and not to let ego push you to quickly.
glad you explained how long it takes. thank you
Thanks for your unique perspective Greg. It was well said when you described the hesitancy many people will have due to the heavy emphasis in physical therapy is to avoid training your knees going over the toes, as well as the incredible movements he is capable of for his marketing purposes. It sounds like the only downside you see is that seeing the feats of extreme athleticism can give people the wrong idea and make them impatient to achieve those movements without building an incredible foundation first to do it safely and healthily. But, when adopting his training methods at the lowest level and patiently and consistently trying to progress slowly, those methods do not carry an inherent risk greater than any other training methods. Is that accurate? Btw I'm just thinking from a PT patient perspective, trying to minimize knee pain, not the extreme strength training and athleticism he demonstrates. Thanks again!
100% Nick, you got it!
You definitely need more views bro
You make great points, yesterday I did the ATG split squat and since I have pretty good mobility I could do it with the heel down without a step or anything so I overestimated my capabilities and loaded it (only 10kg). During the exercise I was fine, no pain, but a few hours after the workout I started feeling pain in my left knee (I had already had trouble with that one). The thing is, I had already done that same exercise with the same load the week before and didn´t have any problems.
Maybe it was a combination of different factors.
This was only yesterday though and the pain is already receding, so I'll keep in mind what you say in this video and not rush into it! Thanks!!
Thanks much for the thorough and detailed review.
You mentioned grandma level. Lol
Can you recommend one of your posts to review for knee strengthening and conditioning and weight regimen and exercises for perfectly healthy 60 year women 5’ just beginning to feel the knees going up stairs?
I already have been lifting ankle weights and bar bell at really low levels for 3 years.
Here is a good place to start. This can be graded to your comfort depending on number of reps/sets as well as height of steps or incline of slant: th-cam.com/video/5hfpl0w4M8g/w-d-xo.html
I think that perhaps Ben's approach appears new as a consequence of physical therapists typically having only brief contact with "knee pain" patients because of insurance. I wonder what sort of program of rehab + athletic "bulletproofing" the PT field would come up with if they were able to actually be paid for a length of time sufficient for such a result. I also wonder where the field would be today if this had been the standard for the last 20 years. There would probably have been multiple revelations in that period of time. The fact is, a handful of sessions with a PT is not enough to see a patient go from broken to bulletproof. Personal trainers have sort of picked up those pieces, and I think that's problematic for both professions and their clients. That said I think Ben's methods are great, and they have helped me deal with my own knee pain -- I just wish one of the PTs I went to for help had given me this 10 years ago. In fact, they had the responsibility to, and instead, I got a printout of ineffective old lady exercises with no system of progression. Not to say that "all PTs are like that" or whatever, but a fair few of them are, which makes Ben's message pure gold for people in pain who have been failed by years in and out of PT. He even mentions that his search for curing his own knee pain had its genesis in ineffective PTs. After all, if his PT was effective he wouldn't have had to go to Poliquin, et al to figure it out.
100% right! I got out of the insurance pigeon hole 5 years ago and its been freeing to work with patients longer. That being said, the insurance model is what we are in right now and PTs could be doing a better job within that model. That's been my goal at sportsrehabexpet.com to address this and change the way healthcare providers practice, creating a more hypbrid approach between rehab and performance. After all the 2 should never really be separate!
You just got a sub. Thanks for great info without trying to sell anything.
Thanks John, much appreciated!
I got better results from the introductory ZERO program than from the next higher one "DENSE". I'm on his 3rd program now called STANDARDS and I feel I'm progressing again. Not sure why the second program was sketchy here and there but I guess it is hard to progress linearly. I'm excited to continue the programs and to continue posting my progress and results on my channel each time I finish one :)
I don't think the negatives you describe are really negatives of Ben's approach. I really don't see how he could emphasize more the necessity of going slowly. He constantly stresses that any exercise can be "regressed," i.e. made as easy as a person needs to make it to be performed without being injured. I appreciate this, because, as an athletic person, I can push too hard, expecting faster results. But that is my problem, not Ben's. Also, he has a starting point he calls knees ability zero which anyone can do, consisting of walking backwards and tibialis raises. Other exercises like the Step Down, soleus raise and split squat can soon be added. I think that even an obese person can do the starter exercises, except for the split squat.
I wish every PT was as open minded as you
appreciate that!
You don't need to have an open mind you just have to observe reality. Doctors, with traditional training, have no idea what they are talking about. They write prescriptions for painkillers and move you along, this is self evident. You don't need an open mind you just have to ask yourself do I still have pain? If so the doctors advice didn't work which is not a slur on the doctor just a statement of fact the problem comes when the doctors ego prevents him from acknowledging that he doesn't know the solution because this prevents the patient either finding a new helper or avoiding becoming another statistic on the opioid death mountain, or the litany of other stupid drugs intended for short term use but extended into perpetuity by robots "just following orders". I'd be careful of this doc as often as the ship sinks the rats sense it and leave so he might just be at the inception of the next scam for big pharma. I have a pretty sound rule, only stay in the hospital for a day and only take a prescription for a week and only follow an expert for a month then stop and reevaluate or discontinue, exceptions apply.
@@unclekerr4369 holy cow that long winded conspiracy theory almost gave me a stroke. Dude I’m a nurse in an ER, 99% of our patients get ibuprofen, Tylenol, and a referral to orthopedics for a surgical consult or physical therapy. The medical field is doing a huge push away from opioid pain meds, to the point where pain isn’t getting controlled at all while the source of pain is in the process of being treated. We aren’t in 2005 anymore dude.
@@Jmack7861 You know you're getting close to the truth when someone calls you a conspiracy theorist. You are correct it is a different time but that doesn't mean the medical field can see itself, it just means we are at the end of one disaster and the start of another. Your testimony of authority about being an E.R nurse doesn't concern me, I just look at what happens as a result a persons actions, not a consensus not expert. I would welcome your help if I had an emergency as that is a legitimate field of medicine and I outlined that by saying i'd stay for one day in hospital. It wouldn't be my words that gave you the stroke, more likely a stress and diet issue, normally linked to insulin resistance.
@@Jmack7861 Doing a huge push away after killing hundreds of thousands of people with misinformed guidance, give yourself a clap. No offense, it's nothing personal against you, you just do what you are told and have no idea what is in the medicine you administer, some drug company could easily change the recipe and you'd have no idea.
Very informative and helpful! Wish I could train with you! IReminding us that this training takes time was essential!
I honestly could care less what a physical therapist thinks about kotg. Physical therapist have FAILED my flat feet, ankles, and knee pain all my life, but not the kotg. But other than that you did a great review.
#kneesovertoes definitely changed my life... it's absolutely amazing!
R U SERIOUS?! HAM CALF TOUCHES IS GOOD FOR U?! THAT EXPLAINS SO MUCH! Recently while warming up on front squats I notice that when I do that my knees feel stronger afterwards and my squat session is better but when I avoid complete contact out of fear or complacency it doesn’t feel the same
100%!
Great video
I like the way you break it all down and explain it
Excellent
Thanks Danny!
Hey man, love the review, think it’s great stuff. Can you link the research you mentioned where it was positive and beneficial for the hamstring and calf muscle against eachother in a full knee bend? I’d love to read that research and see what is actually happening in that moment. I feel like that’s a huge teachable moment
I don't remember the specific link but I know I talk about it in this video again and show a picture of the article name: th-cam.com/video/GCMWOr9AnKk/w-d-xo.html
Very very interesting and I feel a very holistic approach coming from your side.
Thanks for the review and all the best.
Hey Phil, thats the goal of the channel is to see all sides of the equation. Appreciate the watch man 😉
Hey do tib raises also help with posterior shin splints? If not whats another good exercise? Ive had this pain about a year and nothing seems to work. Really appreciate this video and all you do thanks!
They can help, I would definitely give them a good shot if you have not already!
I have Osgood-Schlatter, is there anything I should be concerned about with the kneesovertoes type exercises?
We discuss Osgood-Schlatter exercises here: th-cam.com/video/zNp--Ne0gAU/w-d-xo.html
As an exercise enthusiast, former athlete, and current occupational therapy student, would you mind sharing your references for the research into increasing the strength of ligaments, muscles, and tendons around the knee joint when performing exercises that go knees over toes? I've been having this discussion with several of my friends about whether there is research to support or debunk this guys claims. Anything you've found would be great!
i'm just wondering why the KOT guy was the one to popularize these methods, rather than a physical therapist or personal trainer. I really like the KOT guy and actually do several of his recommended exercises and feel they've been helpful to me, as well. I've always heard that knees over toes was bad, too, but he was the only one to have me think twice about it.
Well to be fair, there have always been plenty of therapists and trainers (myself included) out there that never thought knees over toes were bad!...Nobody else really developed the reach that Ben has created to make a sweeping change in the industry. So more power to him! That being said, it's still an extreme. And while knees over toes should not be avoided. There is a point of diminishing returns and risk/reward ratios start to change. Hence this video, cautioning people that these things take time!...There is a reason why no knees over toes was a thing to. By not putting your knees forward to take away stress from the knee and put it on the hip. Think RDL instead of squat. This can keep someone active while a sensitive knee calms down. The problem here is someone took this to the extreme as well. Saying that the knee going forward is always bad. The solution is always somewhere in the middle while both extremes have various levels of truth to it too. It's important people understand that its a spectrum and really depends on circumstances. But creating fear of movement is never the answer, which is why the no knees forward has been so bad for society. But shoving the knees forward more and more with heavier and heavier loads that the body was not ready to handle creates a different problem. I've seen plenty of people in my clinic who are in pain because they pushed this concept to aggressively for them. No fault of ben, just human nature to try and emulate.
@@sportsrehabexperts Understood. the KOT guy did eventually bring me to your channel and am enjoying and learning from your content, subscribed.
@@jicalzad much appreciated! I think what KOT guy (Ben) is doing is great overall for the industry. Thanks for subscribing and glad you are enjoying the channel!
I appreciate the video, thanks. Got burned before with my lower back on p90x (pushed past the pain on jump squats was the culprit), so definitely want to make sure any workout regimen I do is legit.
Im not a huge fan of p90x either. But to be fair, if you push through pain in ANY program. The likelihood of being burned by the program is much higher
i wish it was cheaper. 60/month is too much
Glad to see this isn't direct criticism of kot guy. It's more criticism of none bespoke advice. The amount of patients who I see in clinic who have tried to self manage their pain with Internet advice is astonishing. I mean I'm all for becoming your own expert but there is no way of replacing one to one guidance. Extensive knowledge of progressions and regressions is a great tool to have in your arsenal.
Thats becoming a question I just ask every eval now lol what have you tried or seen online? Nip any misconceptions in the butt from day 1
Thanks for this! Good insight. What are your thoughts about Baker's Cyst? Curious.
can be a bit annoying but they go away and I wouldn't be to concerned about them. Probably has a large nutrition component to developing them. Also movement is good for the lymphatic system as well.
Been waiting for a PT to talk about it
I personally did the program for a good while and sw results
Tbh ,it's just single leg exercises lol that people thought were taboo but I'm happy Ben is breaking the taboo , the one where western medicine says we can't be knees over toes
100% been using most the single leg exercises for years in the clinic. He's helped people realize they can become strength movements instead of just bodyweight tap downs like most clinicians stick with for life lol. Eventually have to progress. His emphasis on extreme range at the knee I feel is unique as not many people focus on the benefits of achieving hamstring to gastroc contact. Obviously when you go this far, you have to be even more conscious of the load/reps.
@@sportsrehabexperts 🔥🔥🔥
Well said.
I believe the said humility is wisdom
Been 2 years I went from a 24 inch vertical to a 72 in vertical. True story I ain't gonna forget my words started off
Very informative. I can do full hamstring to calf without any exercise.
Nice! Sounds like you have some good mobility
@@sportsrehabexperts I was surprised though. Did some athletics as a child.
Struggling with plantar fasciitis that has weakened my calves and even started to give me knee pain when running (track and cross country runner) or even after a long shift at work. Recently seen a lot of KOT and was wondering if the program would help. Still planing on starting official PT for the fasciitis but wondered if adding KOT would help or even be safe ? Awesome video by the way
Thanks Nolan, plantar fasciitis can be a pain in the butt sometimes. That being said a lot of the ankle work which is done in the program can be helpful. Let me know how it goes! Happy to provide you with some programing that has a mixture of KOT, rehab, and runner specific stuff as well
Your torso doesn't need to be upright in a squat. You need to maintain the spine angle throughout the entire movement. That's all.
Awesome, super informative video man!
I had Right TKR on feb 1 2021. Im a weight lifter & former basketball 🏀 player. I added alot of KOT guy’s exercises 2 weeks ago. Im healing up rather quickly, luckily. My ankles are pretty sore right this second. I think I overdid some slant board/tibias exercises! 😂 Safe & prosperous training to all.
Calf soreness is for real at times lol. The tibialis you tend to be able to beat up a bit more. Take it slow, especially just a couple weeks out!
@@sportsrehabexperts
Thanks, appreciate it!
I also like the kneesovertoes guy and I think the way he has reframed these exercises in terms of performance are great. Could you explain a little bit further about how you mentioned tibialis anterior can improve performance in jumping? Is it just in terms of single leg jumping and the reciprocal 3 joint flexion of your non-jumping leg? I understand it in terms of preventing anterior 'shin splints' as it is a key decelerator in plantarflexion and eversion but I'm struggling to make the connection to jumping, especially to 2 leg jumps. Thanks!
It has to do with transitioning horizontal momentum into a vertical force. You have to create a "breaking" action with transition all the energy from running horizontally to direct the force vertically. Easier to see with one foot jumping. But in 2 foot jumpers in a L to R plant, the Left leg is the decelerator (or transition) of force vectors.
@@sportsrehabexperts I guess I can kind of reason along with that. Do you know of any articles that go into and give the biomechanics theories or demonstrable proof of this?
@@crabmeat88 no unfortunately the research is fixated on ACLs and valgus with standing vertical jump or landing from a step off a box (only looking at one force vector). Which neither of these actually relate to sport where we constantly manipulate force vectors. The tibialis is a prime example. Again, this muscle helps you decelerate or transition (whichever you would like to call it) horizontal to vertical. Easiest way to appreciate it is to see it. Here is a video of a 2 foot slow motion jump. Its a R to L plant. The right foot uses tibialis to transition: th-cam.com/video/jaI8DsdGcgA/w-d-xo.html
Yes, I wish Ben would include more examples of less physically capable people (through age, injury, etc.) being successful with his program. Although he does use his 65 year old mom as an example!
Look at his body weight program. In almost every video where he doesn’t use weights he shows multiple different levels to make the exercise easier or more difficult. I’m 30 but my knees are jacked and swell after any exercise so I’m not adding any weight and have been simply walking backwards, tib raises, split squat with my front leg raised (makes it easier), various stretches. Most of his exercises you can use some type of chair or bar to hold onto to help your balance and lessen the weight and difficulty of the exercise.
@@taylordoom6928 The ATG system is adaptable to almost any starting level, granted. But I'm looking for before and after examples. Right now, in the Zero program, you can't do a full split squat, even without weights. Do you expect to be able to graduate from Zero to the Dense program, which requires a full unassisted split squat, after 12 weeks? How much progress have some people made after being on the system for a full year? I'm a typical 61-year-old ex-athlete, with a typically wrecked body (knee surgery, shoulder surgery, hip replacement), who's two weeks into the Zero program. How far have others like me progressed in a year?
@@taylordoom6928 he does show this and good for you taking the advice and going slowly with it!
Thank you for the video 😀. I like your power lifting mentality ideas. I am a power lifter and my progress has been slow due to still working on mobility and thinking long term goals (5 year goals). What benefits do you think power lifters in general would get if they got rid of that mentality and really took blocks on to think about mobility and joint preparation rather than loading the bar every session? Do you think the progression would be similar?
Spending time on strengthening outer range and develop mobility it would likely allow them to continue training with less flair ups and stay in the game longer!
I have a question about hamstring/calf touching. You said that it creates a decompression but in cases like osteoperosis you actually want compression. So for people that don't have osteoperosis is there no problem? I'm looking at this purely from a movement standpoint. I don't plain on loading this movement but I've been doing bodyweight atg split squats because of KOT guy and my mobility has never been better. Oh yeah and the powerlifting mentality talk, I don't know many powerlifters that don't take mobility and exercise variety extremely seriously, just because a powerlifter becomes extremely efficient in three movements doesn't mean they neglect other movements. Really awesome video though, I just subbed.
Much appreciated! You do want graded compression with osteoperosis. You'd also want expansion too. Alternating between compression and expansion being able to tolerate both is a nice way of looking at it. So as you go down in squat, there will be retropatellar compressive forces that increase to a degree, then begin to decrease once you have hamstring to calf contact. This is referred to as the "wrapping effect" in the literature. I also did a new video on it today actually th-cam.com/video/GCMWOr9AnKk/w-d-xo.html
@@sportsrehabexperts Thanks a ton for the reply. I'm studying physical therapy so your channel is going to be a real gem for me.
@@jpisamerican Love hearing that!
I read from another doc of PT that to "train" cartilage for cartilage healing you need thousands of reps at around 20% 1RM in one set 😛
Jewellers know it too !
Tibialis raises were taught to me back when I was 10 in track and field back in the 90's. It also helps reduce shin splints.
I am 72 and wanting to avoid knee replacement for my osteoarthritic knees, the KOT programme seems a good idea and I hope over the next year to achieve squats and most important the ability to climb stairs which I can only do using one leg first at the moment. Have started doing the zero programme exercises, slow but sure.
What’s a shame is that you haven’t inserted diagrams, illustrations or examples of what you are talking about because you have to understand most people don’t understand the technical terms.
Great video! I have been diagnosed with patellofemoral pain syndrome and I have been when walking, even short walks in my neigboorhood. I have been trying his program for one week, and I dont get any pain from doing the exercises. Will this program help from pain when walking?
Thanks man! The fact you do not have pain with any of the exercises is a great sign that if you stay consistent with it likely it will be helpful for you! Let me know how it goes :)
Hey Andreas, may I know hows your progress going , my doc has also diagnosed me with pfs. Have these helped you?
Tore an ACL in HS at 17, now 22 and I’m stronger in my legs now than I’ve ever been. I’m grabbing rim at 5’10
Because of Kneesovertoesguy
I mean he gives all the best for physical health in total.. and I mean he is Nmmber ONE in the world!!!
Thank you I found this useful, one thing I’m curious on is you touched on ACL injuries, but what about meniscus injuries? I had a 1/3 or my medial meniscus removed at 16 as well as ACL repair. The ACL has been fine, but the meniscus has alway been problematic, either inflammation, sometimes slipping, and grinding. Range of motion has also alway been limited. I’ve been watching the knees over toes guy and been wanting to integrate his program in my routine, but was curious as to the affect on someone with meniscus issues and how they play into the deep knee bends that some of those exercises, and motions do.
Hey Ed, not sure how long its been in total. I know you said it was at 16 years old when it occurred. Biggest thing I would say is the meniscus was removed and the ACL was repaired. Meaning you could push the ACL more aggressively. With the meniscus removed, your cartilage and tissue can adapt which is the good news. However, it will not be a quick process but VERY gradual! Don't work through pain and load the range comfortable. But the volatility of the flair ups and sensitivity should reduce over time. Go into the idea with SLOW expectations.
Well I guess I left out that it’s been 20 years, I’ve done my best to stay active, basketball, running, cycling, lifting etc, but often have inflammation, I don’t have the full range of motion in my leg that has surgery, I can’t touch calves to thighs. I’ve given up on being able to dunk again lol just looking for quality not life to improve like with no inflammation. Thanks for taking the time to respond
@@edzinser9143 got it! A lot of the backward walking, jogging, sled pulls are probably a good idea in your circumstance. You may also need some lower level activities that still try to get the knee to bend without as much load if it continues to be sensitive. But you also could reach a point where you are happy enough with quality of life and decide not to push the envelope either. Obviously that's always your call based on how you feel! I have a video coming out tomorrow that will give you some ideas, but again use your better discretion before trying anything.
I was cringing hoping you were not going to dismiss him since it makes so much sense to me. Definitely the most important piece is the periodization. I did the stretches and immediately wanted to add weight...but I didnt. #ittakestimegrasshopper
I just discovered KneesOverToesGuy this wk! Im subscribing to you for this response video too. 🙂 Thx Doc!
Appreciate that Nicholas! Periodization and patient are key like you said
And yes, what about ex athletes like myself that wrestled in college, and played 20 years of competitive racquetball that have left me with compendium of injuries minor, and major that have given rise to a number of structural issues as well as performance issues.
Great video KNOT squatting has given me great results
I really appreciate this point of view--thanks. I am in my 40s, with OA in my right knee, pretty bad. I have a hard time getting my knee straight, and getting into a deep squat. Bad idea to keep pushing for range of motion in the knee? Or should I be pushing myself to get deeper into my squat???
There is a wide spectrum of what OA is...Doctors and surgeons tend to use this "diagnosis" very easily now and many times its just natural changes and nothing to worry about and training can resolve it. Sometimes though the boney adaptations are significant and you will want to be very cautions on how aggressively you push any of this. The cure and poison is in the dose.
@@sportsrehabexperts thank you for responding! I know I cannot get a diagnosis over TH-cam, but lots of sports, played basketball through college and then 3 knee tears in my late 20s and mid 30s (ACL/meniscus and then meniscus two more times). Kept running, lifting etc and then swelling and stiffness so bad, could not believe it would happen to me so young. One summer, was in so much pain at night, would've sawed off my leg if I had a saw. Things have gotten better, just trying to figure how far to push. As you say--cure and poison is in the dose! The two docs I've seen push cortisone and knee replacement at 50. Hoping to prove them wrong.
Great post, I agree. What are your thoughts on his stretching protocols?
I'm very familiar with his protocols per say. Other then the stretches he shows. In general I'm in favor of the eccentric training to promote lengthening. But totally okay with superseting or including a couple stretches to complement it. I don't like forced stretches and feel you should be able to relax, breath, and be able to contract a muscle if asked while holding a stretch otherwise being to aggressive. Again he has A LOT of flexibility lol. Im sure some of that was developed over a long period of time because he makes it look easy. But would be interesting to know if he had any hypermobile tendencies back when he talks about all his injuries.
@@sportsrehabexperts Cheers, thanks for the response!
I've been struggling with old shin splints for years and might take a look at a few of his recommended exercises
tibialis raises and proper calf training will be very useful.
So the negatives are individuals may be not humble enough to progress slowly and safely. Also, certain injuries require even slower progressions for safety. Good points but why’d that take 10 minutes to explain?
I have no hate for KOT Guy. My concern is the concept of “following philosophies”. Gray Institute ALL THE WAY imo & my experience. It’s where I began my now never ending study of movement & how to analyze the movement of my personal training clients to create effective strategies toward their goals. It’s never a 1 size fits all endeavor. Though knees over toes IS an important part of appropriate movement & strength for effective movement whether it’s for a senior citizen or a competitive athlete.
I think it is good to have a wide lens of who you learn from for sure! I do the same. I actually worked for Gary Gray PT initially out of school, so very familiar with the thought process. Although I do find limitations in their school of thought as well (nothing bad about them, can find flaws in anything). I actually view Gary Gray the originator of the foot elevated split squat. I would do that on the TrueStretch with so many clients for beginner loading! Gary was also very big on the Anterior tap downs / anterior reach
Great video! And thanks for reminding me off the importance of the loading regiment. I have been doing zero for 4 weeks now and gained a lot more mobility and knee ability in my injured knee (fully torn meniscus with surgery 2 years ago). The thing with my meniscus is that when it snapt, I sort of was not “working through pain”, I had a rotation with the knee bent, and it just snapped out off nowhere, sort of.
So my question is; do you think I should be carefull with loading the ATG split squat with weights after 12 weeks of zero (3 times a week), even with no pain? I am considering just keep using the ATG squat as a warmup/mobility exercise with no weight and start loading the Bulgarian split squat again, so I do not risk my meniscus tearing again. Thoughts?
Also, some links for the studies you talked about in the start of your video would be great to see, so I can check out the studies myself.
Biggest factor will be the concept that this is a process! Bulgarian split squats are fine, but they are not the same as a standard split squat or ATG split squat. Do not push through the loading. No shame in elevating the foot on a box if that makes it more comfortable and gradually load through that ROM first before lowering to the floor. Or continue using upper body assist if doing the body weight version on zero. Or both upper body assist and foot elevated if necessary to make comfortable. As far as the research, its termed the "wrapping effect" pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23821469/
Just started KNOT guy and am sticking with it...PATIENCE
KOT
Apologies if I missed it, my biggest question with KOTG is can it help with plantar fasciitis and calf pain/twitching that is associated with those injuries? I haven't been able to run in years due to this. Would his program be beneficial to my recovery?
Yes