I only use my Vargur in highsec for L4 missions, so slightly less paranoia. For my setup, I don't use a MWD (just rely on the MJD), add a Shield boost amp and I also also swap the second tracking comp for another shield hardener. I don't see the point in having a speed fit plus the tracking comp long range in. My fit does 2830DPS with Hail and has 87,800 EHP. Breezes through all L4 missions (maxed Vargur skills). I swap the tracking comp to tracking for closer range stuff and use light/med drones for anything that gets too close for the autocannons. Sine I am not too worried about ISK/ht, I also drop mobile tractors to grab the loot, then recyle, build EMP L and Phased Plasma L and use LP stores to upgrade those to Republic Fleet Ammo, which uses up the cheap loot and gets me free ammo ( + sell the excess Faction ammo). That adds quite a bit to the isk/hour and adds variation.
Great to see an almost direct comparison only a day apart. Crazy how easy you make that/everything look, and I just know that by the time I'm trained for Marauders they will have been nerfed lol. I'm speaking from experience as it's happened on the last few things I've trained for, but just means I work a bit harder and appreciate it when I get there. Fly safe o7
You can set a "probes" only setting to reduce clutter. Pretty sure u know how. And the local view, just view only names so you don't have to scroll all the way down to see more. Portraits kinda meaningless 😆 Great video. I follow them constantly.
Something I've been doing lately is experimenting with fitting polarized guns on the Vargur. It is honestly a pretty terrifying experience seeing shield HP bounce all over the damn place, but your guns cycle in less than 2 seconds while in Bastion and it completely obliterates everything you put your guns on. The difference in DPS output is actually very significant. The tank is also strong enough with an X-type XL that, as long as you don't pull full room aggro and you actually work through the groups correctly, you'll be just fine. If you DO pull full room aggro, MJD away and then pick them off from a distance. I've been doing this without any crystal implants and it's been working fine, but I am still working up the courage to try it in some of the more challenging missions. In terms of ganking, the way I see it, if a blob of catalysts gets dropped on me, I am probably gonna die whether I've got resists or not, so I may as well haul my balls around high sec and reap the benefits of polarized guns. I also figured since there's already a target painted on my back just by simply being in a Marauder, I may as well go the extra mile and bling up my support modules, so I got some Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computers. With double tracking scripts I can even hit frigates at about 10KM, provided I am smart with managing transversal. I am curious though, what are your thoughts on using the Vargur for blitzing? I know that sometimes you just have to do the mission because it is not blitzable, and for these something that can completely wreck the spawns as fast as possible is the best option. I was talking to some guy on Reddit a few days ago and he suggested that the Machariel is just the de facto way to go. His main argument seemed to be centralized around the inherent drawbacks of using Bastion on a Marauder. For example, you can have a full set of Ascendancies and hyperspatials, and you can still be held up because you've gotta wait at a stargate or outside of a station for a minute because of the Bastion weapons timer. However in my own experience I have found this to be a pretty rare occurrence. More often than not the weapons timer is long gone, or the few times it's still up, just has 10 seconds or less left on it by the time I'm trying to use a gate or dock at a station. Personally I use my Vargur with Ascendancies and hyperspatials. It's not as fast as a Machariel in terms of warp speed with the same combination, but it packs 4x the amount of tank and spank and I'm okay with that. I just really like watching health bars go down really fast.
I blitz in a macha 1.7b worth, can do both long run killin everything or blitz. Imho l4 blitzing is less isk in the long run instead of all Bounty's and loot.
Nice to see the difference in speed, but IMO would have been better to see it in a Golem so that missiles/torpedoes were still the weapon being used with the travel times and tracking issues involved. Thanks for the content.
I've been flying both the Vargur and the Golem for many years now. In my opinion, the Golem is VERY effective but it's not something I really enjoy flying. What I like about the Vargur (or any autocannon ship) is you can pretty much snipe things from well beyond your labeled falloff range (as your ACTUAL weapon range is technically optimal + 2x falloff). Very frequently I am able to hit frigates and destroyers that are 90km out when all I've got loaded is a faction ammo. While true the chance-to-hit seriously declines beyond your falloff range, a Bastioned Vargur shoots so damn fast that you are going to get a good roll pretty quickly. And most of those smaller rats die in just 1-3 hits, from just two guns. This makes dealing with frigates and cruisers way easier, and these are also what _most_ missions will be comprised of and also the kinds of rats that will give _most_ missile ships the most problems. Being able to swat these problematic rats down before they can even shoot you is a really nice feeling. Having said that, the Golem still does have its place. If you are going into a mission that leans heavily towards battleship spawns, the Golem is the way to go. It can take down most battleship rats in two volleys. The Vargur is very effective at cleaning the trash, but not quite as effective at killing battleships as the Golem. If you put the two of them side-by-side in a direct comparison, I would say the Golem is about 10-15 seconds faster at killing battleships than the Vargur, while the Vargur is about 10-15 seconds faster at killing everything the Golem struggles with. The question on which one to use just depends on the rats. If the mission in question has significantly more rats of smaller signature radius, you are better off going with the Vargur as you will spend way more time in the Golem just trying to get rid of the trash. Side note, there's a new type of Ballistic Control System that's a Mordu's Legion faction variant. This one has slightly reduced damage output and fire rate buffs, but provides an explosion velocity bonus in addition to fire rate and damage output. It's less overall damage, but potentially higher applied damage to anything smaller than a battlecruiser. I haven't tested it yet, but I imagine swapping these in would greatly improve the killing power of the Golem on smaller rats. I would say the biggest issue with the Golem is ironically the fire rate of the torpedos. A big part of using missile ships is counting volleys, and another big part of using the Golem is making ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN your target painters are on the next thing you're shooting at, otherwise it's a lot of un-applied damage. In my own experience, the raw killing power of the Golem is held up by the terrible module activation lag that has been an issue in the game since 2003, and having to sit around and wait for target painter cycles. It actually gets pretty damn confusing trying to keep track of everything. On top of counting volleys, you need to make sure you've got at least one target painter at the ready to get it on the next target, and on top of this you've got to deal with annoying module lag. VERY frequently I find myself realizing that no, that target painter in fact _did not_ activate on that target, and I just shat out 5 volleys onto it. It's really damn annoying. These aren't really issues with the Golem itself, these are just issues with how the game actually works on a fundamental level. This is largely why I prefer the Vargur to the Golem. Vargur is easy mode, just flip on your tracking computers and press F1 and F2 on everything you want dead. Golem is significantly more involved and requires lots of micro management if you want it to be as efficient as possible.
@@spartan456 Thanks for the long and detailed response, but my point was if you were trying to do a direct comparison between a brand new player in a Raven to that same player after he had skilled up all the way into a Golem, the Golem would have made a better comparison for the video. The Vargur looks amazing, but requires an entirely different set of skills to fly so a player running missions in a Raven likely isn't skilling towards a Vargur, but rather towards the Golem. Thanks again for the great response and the videos.
@@HateLesSGaming been missioning with a variation of your Mach barebones fit, slightly less barebones and with much better skills. Doing allright on Lvl4s, sticking to low pop systems and watching local seems to do the trick.
2 ปีที่แล้ว +1
I believe its less dangerous to fly with a set of high grade implants and mostly t2 tank instead of 4b fits.
i used ascendancys or asklepians on top of this no holding back tbh i havent lost one yet and have had multiple attempts on this vargur by multiple they have tryed to catch it like 10 times
Can you do a golem fit for L4 missions? Currently using Tech 2 torpedo launchers Auto targeting system 2 Bastion module Warhead catalyst rigor 1 Warhead calefaction catalyst 2 Pith x shield amplifier Pith a med shield booster Pitch c multispectrum shield hardener 2x rep target painters Missile guidance computer 2 with precision script 3x navy ballistic control systems 1x Missile guidance enhancer 2 x tractor beams 3052 dps and 10,934 alpha
Hi Hateless, I really like your burner and anomic mission videos. I was playing eve online in a Chinese community. I found many of my friends does not use English at all. (They run the client in a Chinese version) I wonder if it is OK for me to use some of your contents (builds and ideas) in those burner and anomic videos so that I can make a Chinese version for Chinese audiences? All of these are just by my own interest on the eve online game and there will be no commercial stuff involved. Best, CC
Well, it's literally the "best" ship you can fly in hisec for missions, no dreads or carriers for ratting even if you wanted to. The whole point of the skill system in eve is so you have something to work for and look forward to, if you could fly the best pve ship in a week what is there to look forward too? On the flipside, if every BS was as good as a vague or marauder marauder again, what's the point?
Depends on the mission mate (and how you like to do missions), for missions where most of the NPC's are close it would work really well. The vargur is good because it can throw different damage types, with instant application, over such a broad engagement distance. Golem is good if you don't mind waiting for the damage to get down range. Paladin is good for sansha missions. All of them "can be used"..... its just IMO (and experience using them all), the vargur is probably the pick of the bunch for the reasons listed.
Thanks for imfo guys, yeah reason I asked was because I have skills for Kronos and was contemplating whether I should train for the Vargur. It sounds like long term may not be a bad idea
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
I only use my Vargur in highsec for L4 missions, so slightly less paranoia. For my setup, I don't use a MWD (just rely on the MJD), add a Shield boost amp and I also also swap the second tracking comp for another shield hardener. I don't see the point in having a speed fit plus the tracking comp long range in. My fit does 2830DPS with Hail and has 87,800 EHP. Breezes through all L4 missions (maxed Vargur skills). I swap the tracking comp to tracking for closer range stuff and use light/med drones for anything that gets too close for the autocannons.
Sine I am not too worried about ISK/ht, I also drop mobile tractors to grab the loot, then recyle, build EMP L and Phased Plasma L and use LP stores to upgrade those to Republic Fleet Ammo, which uses up the cheap loot and gets me free ammo ( + sell the excess Faction ammo). That adds quite a bit to the isk/hour and adds variation.
slightly less paranoia ?? hes in highsec right now in this video.
mission running in highsec is more dangerous then running them in nullsec....
Great to see an almost direct comparison only a day apart. Crazy how easy you make that/everything look, and I just know that by the time I'm trained for Marauders they will have been nerfed lol. I'm speaking from experience as it's happened on the last few things I've trained for, but just means I work a bit harder and appreciate it when I get there.
Fly safe o7
they already got a nerf they where almost immune to ewar now not so much they where also extremly difficult to scan they changed that to
You can set a "probes" only setting to reduce clutter. Pretty sure u know how. And the local view, just view only names so you don't have to scroll all the way down to see more. Portraits kinda meaningless 😆
Great video. I follow them constantly.
i need to do this properly yess
@@HateLesSGaming just use z-s overview presets, and load the defensive dscan filter ^^
Something I've been doing lately is experimenting with fitting polarized guns on the Vargur. It is honestly a pretty terrifying experience seeing shield HP bounce all over the damn place, but your guns cycle in less than 2 seconds while in Bastion and it completely obliterates everything you put your guns on. The difference in DPS output is actually very significant. The tank is also strong enough with an X-type XL that, as long as you don't pull full room aggro and you actually work through the groups correctly, you'll be just fine. If you DO pull full room aggro, MJD away and then pick them off from a distance.
I've been doing this without any crystal implants and it's been working fine, but I am still working up the courage to try it in some of the more challenging missions. In terms of ganking, the way I see it, if a blob of catalysts gets dropped on me, I am probably gonna die whether I've got resists or not, so I may as well haul my balls around high sec and reap the benefits of polarized guns. I also figured since there's already a target painted on my back just by simply being in a Marauder, I may as well go the extra mile and bling up my support modules, so I got some Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computers. With double tracking scripts I can even hit frigates at about 10KM, provided I am smart with managing transversal.
I am curious though, what are your thoughts on using the Vargur for blitzing? I know that sometimes you just have to do the mission because it is not blitzable, and for these something that can completely wreck the spawns as fast as possible is the best option. I was talking to some guy on Reddit a few days ago and he suggested that the Machariel is just the de facto way to go. His main argument seemed to be centralized around the inherent drawbacks of using Bastion on a Marauder. For example, you can have a full set of Ascendancies and hyperspatials, and you can still be held up because you've gotta wait at a stargate or outside of a station for a minute because of the Bastion weapons timer. However in my own experience I have found this to be a pretty rare occurrence. More often than not the weapons timer is long gone, or the few times it's still up, just has 10 seconds or less left on it by the time I'm trying to use a gate or dock at a station.
Personally I use my Vargur with Ascendancies and hyperspatials. It's not as fast as a Machariel in terms of warp speed with the same combination, but it packs 4x the amount of tank and spank and I'm okay with that. I just really like watching health bars go down really fast.
Polarized guns or go home :)
They arent really worth it cycle times go from 2.2 or so to just under 2 seconds you lose all that time waiting on the server
@@HateLesSGaming yea man thats actually something I never considered. Might have to have a deep dive into them.
I blitz in a macha 1.7b worth, can do both long run killin everything or blitz. Imho l4 blitzing is less isk in the long run instead of all Bounty's and loot.
First comment maybe! You made me resub. Very informative eve vids. Thanks.
that's an awesome cat. Sweet vid too!
I'd love to see how this performs at the end of Worlds Collide - Angel Cartel & Sansha's Nation. That last gate DPS from Angels is pretty high
Nice to see the difference in speed, but IMO would have been better to see it in a Golem so that missiles/torpedoes were still the weapon being used with the travel times and tracking issues involved. Thanks for the content.
I've been flying both the Vargur and the Golem for many years now. In my opinion, the Golem is VERY effective but it's not something I really enjoy flying. What I like about the Vargur (or any autocannon ship) is you can pretty much snipe things from well beyond your labeled falloff range (as your ACTUAL weapon range is technically optimal + 2x falloff). Very frequently I am able to hit frigates and destroyers that are 90km out when all I've got loaded is a faction ammo. While true the chance-to-hit seriously declines beyond your falloff range, a Bastioned Vargur shoots so damn fast that you are going to get a good roll pretty quickly. And most of those smaller rats die in just 1-3 hits, from just two guns. This makes dealing with frigates and cruisers way easier, and these are also what _most_ missions will be comprised of and also the kinds of rats that will give _most_ missile ships the most problems. Being able to swat these problematic rats down before they can even shoot you is a really nice feeling.
Having said that, the Golem still does have its place. If you are going into a mission that leans heavily towards battleship spawns, the Golem is the way to go. It can take down most battleship rats in two volleys. The Vargur is very effective at cleaning the trash, but not quite as effective at killing battleships as the Golem. If you put the two of them side-by-side in a direct comparison, I would say the Golem is about 10-15 seconds faster at killing battleships than the Vargur, while the Vargur is about 10-15 seconds faster at killing everything the Golem struggles with. The question on which one to use just depends on the rats. If the mission in question has significantly more rats of smaller signature radius, you are better off going with the Vargur as you will spend way more time in the Golem just trying to get rid of the trash.
Side note, there's a new type of Ballistic Control System that's a Mordu's Legion faction variant. This one has slightly reduced damage output and fire rate buffs, but provides an explosion velocity bonus in addition to fire rate and damage output. It's less overall damage, but potentially higher applied damage to anything smaller than a battlecruiser. I haven't tested it yet, but I imagine swapping these in would greatly improve the killing power of the Golem on smaller rats.
I would say the biggest issue with the Golem is ironically the fire rate of the torpedos. A big part of using missile ships is counting volleys, and another big part of using the Golem is making ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN your target painters are on the next thing you're shooting at, otherwise it's a lot of un-applied damage. In my own experience, the raw killing power of the Golem is held up by the terrible module activation lag that has been an issue in the game since 2003, and having to sit around and wait for target painter cycles. It actually gets pretty damn confusing trying to keep track of everything. On top of counting volleys, you need to make sure you've got at least one target painter at the ready to get it on the next target, and on top of this you've got to deal with annoying module lag. VERY frequently I find myself realizing that no, that target painter in fact _did not_ activate on that target, and I just shat out 5 volleys onto it. It's really damn annoying. These aren't really issues with the Golem itself, these are just issues with how the game actually works on a fundamental level. This is largely why I prefer the Vargur to the Golem. Vargur is easy mode, just flip on your tracking computers and press F1 and F2 on everything you want dead. Golem is significantly more involved and requires lots of micro management if you want it to be as efficient as possible.
@@spartan456 Thanks for the long and detailed response, but my point was if you were trying to do a direct comparison between a brand new player in a Raven to that same player after he had skilled up all the way into a Golem, the Golem would have made a better comparison for the video.
The Vargur looks amazing, but requires an entirely different set of skills to fly so a player running missions in a Raven likely isn't skilling towards a Vargur, but rather towards the Golem.
Thanks again for the great response and the videos.
Is the MWD really necessary for the Vargur? Would it help in case you got pounced?
It's for mission speed if you get pounced you done goofed
@@HateLesSGaming roger that
@@HateLesSGaming been missioning with a variation of your Mach barebones fit, slightly less barebones and with much better skills. Doing allright on Lvl4s, sticking to low pop systems and watching local seems to do the trick.
I believe its less dangerous to fly with a set of high grade implants and mostly t2 tank instead of 4b fits.
i used ascendancys or asklepians on top of this no holding back tbh i havent lost one yet and have had multiple attempts on this vargur by multiple they have tryed to catch it like 10 times
Can you do a golem fit for L4 missions?
Currently using
Tech 2 torpedo launchers
Auto targeting system 2
Bastion module
Warhead catalyst rigor 1
Warhead calefaction catalyst 2
Pith x shield amplifier
Pith a med shield booster
Pitch c multispectrum shield hardener
2x rep target painters
Missile guidance computer 2 with precision script
3x navy ballistic control systems
1x Missile guidance enhancer
2 x tractor beams
3052 dps and 10,934 alpha
how much per hour you can make using vargur on average doing mission?
it varies a bit but just doing the missions nothing else is about 120-160m per hour
@@HateLesSGaming ah ok thanks for replying :)
Hi Hateless,
I really like your burner and anomic mission videos.
I was playing eve online in a Chinese community. I found many of my friends does not use English at all. (They run the client in a Chinese version)
I wonder if it is OK for me to use some of your contents (builds and ideas) in those burner and anomic videos so that I can make a Chinese version for Chinese audiences?
All of these are just by my own interest on the eve online game and there will be no commercial stuff involved.
Best,
CC
I use a t2 sacrilege with a ds med rep and it works fine but prob takes twice the time
Bring on the Vargur!! With 4 Shield extender 100% update would it get 200K Ehp??? Maybe Golem would get the best from the Update??
Luckily CCP can design a ship for PVE that's good at it.
Well, it's literally the "best" ship you can fly in hisec for missions, no dreads or carriers for ratting even if you wanted to. The whole point of the skill system in eve is so you have something to work for and look forward to, if you could fly the best pve ship in a week what is there to look forward too? On the flipside, if every BS was as good as a vague or marauder marauder again, what's the point?
Would use tracking scripts myself but yah solid for the mission at hand
sometimes range is better sometimes tracking is better how i fly range tends to be better so i just dont worry so much about it
I see you using the Vargur a lot, would a Blaster Kronos also be okay?
Depends on the mission mate (and how you like to do missions), for missions where most of the NPC's are close it would work really well.
The vargur is good because it can throw different damage types, with instant application, over such a broad engagement distance.
Golem is good if you don't mind waiting for the damage to get down range.
Paladin is good for sansha missions.
All of them "can be used"..... its just IMO (and experience using them all), the vargur is probably the pick of the bunch for the reasons listed.
Thanks for imfo guys, yeah reason I asked was because I have skills for Kronos and was contemplating whether I should train for the Vargur. It sounds like long term may not be a bad idea
o7 Buddy. RIP.