Happy Saturday everyone!! Major Aqara video coming up off the back of this!! Get it below if you want one!… BUY THE AQARA T2 DUAL RELAY HERE As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. By buying through any of the links below I will earn commission at no extra cost to you :) UK: amzn.to/40xBTg4 US: amzn.to/3SDauHr Check out the amazing video on this Relay here: th-cam.com/video/ToJHXnb9BR8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=BC2YJWnbc03VI0vg
Have you had a chance to compare with Shelly devices? I know shelly offer a lot of flexibility with the operation of the SW contacts on their devices and with switch on states. Are Aqara similar or is the SW only an override?
@@paulgoffin8054 the reason i choose aqara over Shelly is for a couple reason. 1. Aqara works better with smartthings. I can use aqara without aqara app/bridge. 2. Aqara uses zigbee and Shelly Wifi. I dont like to use up more of the wifi space. I find zigbee to be faster. They have the same funtion On/Off and energy meter. For me its an easy one. I cant really see a reason to use aqara T2 over T1. There must be some reason but I dont know.
I don't generally comment, but I use a Sonoff Zigbee mini extreme on my light switches. It's great and requires no neutral wire. It doesn't monitor energy use tho. These look really interesting tho.
I'm glad you mentioned OpenTherm. Here in the Netherlands I understand that the requirements is that all boilers and thermostats have to be OpenTherm compliant. For those that do not know what this means, well effectively it means the thermostat can control the level of demand so that if the room/house is massively too cold then the boiler can be told to go nuts and produce as much heat as possible which may be less efficient. If the room/house is slightly too chilly then the boiler can reduce its output temperature and so use less gas. So I'd really not recommend replacing an OpenTherm setup with a binary on/off system, instead you might want to look at smart thermostats that are smart home compliant.
Just to add to what you said, I can not overstate how amazing DIYLESS Opentherm shield with ESP32 running ESPHOME is for this usecase. You do have to put in some work initially to configure it properly, but then it simply works like a charm.
I recommend using 3 way momentary switches when you run smart modules behind normal switches. We changed our entire house over and the wife didn't want "Smart" switches so we used nice chrome 3 way momentary switches so that you don't have that annoying issue when turned on by the physical switch and off via smart (or visa versa) and the switch being in the wrong place, with momentary switches they just return to "straight". Def an OCD thing but much nicer in my opinion. Work great with a mix of relays and and dimmers. Currently running a mix of Shelly WiFi and Fibaro Z-Wave devices. The aqara looks good, but also massive - would struggle to fit behind a lot of switches without digging out a bigger back box. The new shelly mini's are a game changer in this respect...
@@shanemshortAustralian Electrican here, I have put Shelly dimmers throughout my house using 3 position Clipsal Iconic momentary switches... Works rather well. Clipsal P/N CLP49MBPR-XW get them for around $30 each
@@MartyH I’ve had inconsistent binding on the switches, if you don’t hit them straight on they can occasionally stick, which is really annoying if you’re using them with dimmers. It just surprises me there’s so few options.
Great presentation as always. You're absolutely right about electricity. I've shut off light switches and still had power at the ceiling fixture. This is because in the early days of electrifying homes, lights had a pull cord switch. Adding a wall switch meant running a single (dual conductor) wire to the switch to interrupt power to the bulb. That being said, if you should find a switch box with a single wire going to it, there's a very likely chance that there are live wires there and at the actual light fixture. Nice job changing up the humor too btw.
Thanks dude!! Good to hear these things as it’s a warning to some of the numpties that have previously argued with me in the comments that “if the bulb doesn’t come on the the breaker worked and you can stop worrying “ 🙄
@@paulhibbert That's precisely why I explained the evolution of the wiring components. It immediately shuts down the potential for a debate. As a former electrician, I've seen all sorts of terrible and dangerous wiring done by DIY guys as well as licensed professionals. I will never trust a 220v circuit wired by anyone without pulling every box apart to check it out thoroughly. I've found so many loose connections that could have started a fire that I can't even trust a pro anymore.
I have been doing electrical stuff and turned off the new main breaker and there was one light and one socket still on. After doing some investigation the electrician found they were wired to the building's master backup generator circuit. After that I had him put in a separate breaker for that and then wire it to the Internet and fridge as well. A good thing to find out.
In addition to Shelly there is also Sonoff, which does have Zigbee (and also no-neutral). I had the Sonoff installed but I found problems in that our electrical boxes are mostly metal (here in Canada) and the Sonoff do not have an external antenna (at least that's what I think the problem is). Ended up using Aqara Zigbee No Neutral switches which work marvelously.
Great review. Unfortuantely, I don't see how the Aqara T2 Dual Relay would fit on a typical electrical "Gang" box in the states. There is barely enough room to fit the wall switches and wires in the box. Excellent point made on turning off the power to all circuits at the circuit panel. I have personally experienced electrical circuits wired in series from other rooms that remain on when power is off in the one room you are working on.
While it's possible you're right, adding this is in presents the perfect opportunity to have it replaced with a deeper box. And if one is already having an electrician add in this relay (which they should be), throwing in a $7-13 box for them to install is probably not a barrier to most.
I ran into the same thing when I was considering buying the Shelly relays. There's no way I could fit a relay in behind my wall switches. And in my older house, there isn't room to be putting in a deeper gang box.@@MindForgedManacle
@@da.mockracy What kind of walls do you have? Most walls can fit deep enough boxes as long as the wall isn't thinner than the box itself, of course. If you have stone walls, you need a powerfull drill (or a chisel and patience). If you have an American drywall, I assume a butterknife made out of chinesium would suffice.
Aqara also have light switches as well, that has neutral and no neutral ones you can buy as well as remote switches that can be placed anywhere, they have 5 year battery life, , they can function even if the Internet is down (unsure if the remote switch H1 switch can still talk to H1 wired switch when hub is off, but if it's just no Internet the m2/m3 hub changes to local mode) I wouldn't use a T2 to control existing switch controlled lights the relay modual is to big
As an electrician in Australia, wiring for anyone besides an electrician is a no go. I really appreciate the way you handled the working on electricity and the precautions needed.. Good work.
We have part P here, which can basically be boiled down to "if you are replacing like for like, electrician not required, if you are making a modification, electrician certification required". Which is exactly the reason why, after finishing engineering at uni, I went back to college and did my electrician ratings.
I did this years ago on our combi boiler with a simple relay and esp 8266 running esphome - it works better than a standard thermostat for me as you can program average temperatures in Home Assistant, or switch the sensor being used for temperature based on time etc.
I've used several Aqara products, including their T1 relays. I've had several T1's burn out whilst using the Aqara temperature probe to determine when to turn on/off the T1 to control low power extractor fans. Despite the fans being well within the operating limits of the T1 I was told by the Aqara people that when the fans are turned on they cause a large spike that will periodically exceed the limitations of the T1, hence causing the burnout over time. The reason I mention this is that you mention you're planning on switching on/off your boiler and you may experience the same issue, despite the T2 having a higher rating. The workaround was to use a device called a Contactor (effectively it's a lower power relay for switching higher power) and use the T1/T2 to power the Contactor to ensure the load stays within specification.
This may be good for 2 lights in a smaller back box. However, I think the fibaro dimmers are a better option, they’re smaller, offer dimming capabilities and also can work without a neutral connection. They also work with a range of switches, including the 3 position retractive for up/down dimming. They have loads of useful options too, such as soft start and action to take following a power cut.
EVVR has a neutral-less Matter-Zigbee smart relay and switch, for those complaining about neutral requirement. I've never used it so I can't vouch for or against its quality, but there's a potential alternative. It even has an official Home Assistant integration.
I've done a similar thing myself - a Zwave relay from Shelly (Qubino) to control my Combi Boiler directly, to pair with TRVs in every room paired with external temp sensors - a complete room-based heating solution!
@@paulhibbert I went with cheap (£17/each) Zigbee Tuya TRVs from Aliexpress. 2 months in fantastic performance, 0 issues, very happy! Especially as competitions (Tado, Shelly) cost 3-4x. Each room has 1-2 TRVs, which are paired with a Sonoff temp sensor on each room too. Then each room combined into a single thermostat with ‘better thermostat’. (Insert home assistant joke 😅) Love the content btw Paul 👍 always nice to follow UK based creators
I love your humor and your videos are always entertaining. I wanted to say thank you for flipping serious when talking about the electrics with your demo board. Too many people don't take electricity seriously and are hurt or killed due to it. Keep the awesome content coming!
I love Aqara, great products and definitely the zigbee parts I have had the least amount of issues with. By the way, it is on black Friday sale as well. Comparing this to the Shelly 2PM. The Shelly is slightly cheaper and also has Bluetooth built in. But if you want the best Zigbee device and want all the advantages of the meshing that comes with it, I think the T2 is a great product. Thanks as always for a great and entertaining review Paul. I especially liked your wiring diagram (if it can be trusted ;-)). I prefer this wiring method to how Shelly does theirs. Mine is coming on Monday and I already have two applications for it.
Great video as usual, i may of not quite got what you were saying regarding use in the power circuits, DO Not Use in the back of a plug socket, that circuit is likely to be 30 amps - the thing you plug in can be protected by a 13 amp fuse in the plug. (Much better to use 5 or 3 amp fuse ) so if you want to control something that uses mains power it would go between the thing and the plug that you then plug into the wall socket. Make sure no wires are on show (the relay should be in a box). Also when checking your power is off you should only use a device made to that job and yes check it works before checking the power is off and just as important check it works afterwards too. Do not use a so called “electricians” screwdriver these are only reliable to tell you something is live not dead.
@@GodmanchesterGoblin the problem is these things are sold to consumers and in the very small print in the instructions it will say consult a professional if you don't know what you are doing - other than trained competent people who really knows what they are doing with mains electricity? I love what @paulhibbert does but sometimes you need to be careful what you say - a blanket "consult a professional this could kill you " would be better than advising the use of multimeters (the reason he shorts out the socket is because the exposed metal prongs on his metre are too long) and the so called electricians screwdriver ( no electrician would ever use one of these to prove a circuit dead)
@@darrenpage1517This is so true. Although my knowledge is limited to around the 14th edition regs. My teacher (dad. Who, last millennium, would correctly tell his assessors when they were talking rubbish) never trusted those tools. That being said my current home was wired by idiots. Who worked for a property developing politician. I wont say what colour rosette as that would be royally embarrassing.
@darrenpage1517 Indeed. I agree 100%. I've come across a few people who would be inclined to assume that if the lights work and the fuse hasn't blown, then everything's fine. Not true, of course. And using a meter - yes, if you don't know what you're doing, that can kill you too.
Great video as always Paul! 👍🏻. I did something similar throughout our house in 2019 when we had it re-wired. I used a Z-Wave Fibaro double switch module then as it was the only real solution I could find within my budget (about £40 per unit at the time) that allowed me to use our own choice of light switches. I chose retractive light switches so they are never “on” or “off”. Fibaro also does a module which allows dimming if that is important to anyone? The good thing about the Fibaro modules is that they are slightly slimmer than this one allowing them to fit into a deep back box without a further spacer (although it is tight).
I have chosen Shelly, which works stable. I have Shelly one and mini, which seems to be smaller than Aqara. They have versions with and without N required
Tuya have had a wifi unit for years and I have used this to control lights for the older members of the family and visitors who do not know who Alexa is! Also the dimmer unit allows you to use these press switches (not on off) to turn on/off lights and dim.
I know it's supposed to be a downside that it lacks dimming, but in a way that can be a plus too. Some implementations can benefit from a simple on/off solution. Simplicity can also remove avenues of failure too, which I also like. Aqara continues to deliver the weird things I require.
Great video as always Paul! This is definitely the most efficient way to automate the light switches around your house if you have deep enough back boxes. I have been installing these kind of modules since I started my smart home, I use them for lights and shutters. Since my house and installation is a bit old my light switch back boxes are not deep enough for modules this size, there are however zigbee alternatives that are smaller than this, as a last resort I've also seen people unscrew the casing of the module to reduce the size even more. I agree that electrical installations can be very unpredicatable, especially if you have an older, not up to code installation like me, however I've found that the combination of turning off the breaker box + using an electricians screwdriver is pretty much all you need, if you don't see a light, you're good to go. Just to be safe I try to never to not make contact between different exposed wires, and never touch exposed wires with both your hands, if you happen to be shocked it will close the circuit with your body which is way worse than having a single contact shock. I've had the latter 2 times while renovating my house, and besides the jumpscare I was just fine. This Aqara device differentiates itself due to the energy monitoring capability, which not all of most relay modules have, but unless you want to hook it up in your breaker box or something I find it unnecessary as I would typically use a smart plug to monitor an appliance's consumption since it's a much more plug and play solution. Also I found others I've used to have a simpler wiring than this one, never seen other modules with the need to shunt 2 inputs and have a common for the switch. It's also a bit pricey, and I kinda understand why, due to having matter, local support and energy monitoring, but unless you really need all of these things you can get zigbee relay modules for half the price, besides the price, the advantage is that you generally have more control if you get a dedicated module, for example one that can do dimming or control your shutters with percentage.
I started my journey in home-automation this way (fibare z-wave relays). It works very well but you don't always have enough space for these relays behind your switches (and these Aqara's seem even bigger the the Fibaro's). As far as lights go, smart bulbs are the way to go imho (and wallplugs for everything else) . Also, when you're moving you'll have to (remember to) get them all out...
It is possible to use single devices like this but instead of at the switch put it behind the ceiling rose. If you look a white switch in the uk is a wire going from the ceiling rose and the switch and back again. Exactly like Paul wired - only works one light at a time thou
As Martyn said, it can just be installed at the light. I am tempted by the WiFi meross equivalent for exactly this reason. Smaller factor, so I can put it in the fitting and then it all works as you'd like.
Yout lucky. My house was built in the 90s the bottom half is neutral and the top is non-neutral and we discovered this the hard way when we tried installed smart stuff
Good shout! There are a few others that are doing some good things and Govee do really good lighting, but it’s these two that are really innovating when it comes to automation ❤️👍🏻 xxx
Great vid Paul. Get your point but must be different there in the UK. Here in the US theres no way youll get an electrician to your house for under a couple hundred bucks, even for a simple instal job like these. These are a great option for those inclined and theyre Zigbee!
I don't know about the electrtic code in the UK, but my finnish electrician-persona was crying tears of blood by the colours of the wires used in the sample circuit :D Granted that it doesn't really matter, but ... as you said in the beginning, never trust your fuseboard because it is possible to mix things up - like I believe was done here in regards to the way blue and brown wires were used for the manual switches ;)
Thanks for another great video, Paul. I am great fan of Aqara products (part of Xiaomi so they will never go bust) and can see some great applications for this device but it is not very different to the sonoff and thinkbee relays. I put those into my house when I moved in 5 years ago and so had my sparkie put them in the ceiling voids or in a separate hidden mounted box away from the light switch itself for my lights to avoid the issue of too fat switch boxes. I also had to solve the "need for neutral" for my switches anyhow 5 years ago since in those days there were no smart light switches that did it all without neutral, so I got the sparkie to include neutral wires in all my downstairs lights when I was getting it all rewired. he also put in much deeper back boxes (58mm ?) for the smart light switches I decided to use since the electronics even for those is deeper than the basic UK back boxes (38mm ?). The 10a limit is quite common in most smart plugs too, but there are some that will go up to 13a (Meross and TP-Link products to name 2). I felt it was a necessity for energy measuring power consumption for my dishwasher and my clothes washer/dryer and I gather it might be needed if you are measuring high power loads on start up for things like air fryers and kettles. The Meross and TP-Link (Kasa sub-brand) smart plugs are now only about £9 (UKPds = $11) at present (Black Friday Nov 2023) so it works out cheaper to just buy the smart plugs still in most cases. Whilst the relay CAN control the combi boiler, I would not advise it since it will only be responding to the internal temperature of one sensor, whereas a good smart thermostat might take into account internal temperatures from a number of sensors AND more importantly factor in the external ambient temperature to heuristically control heat management. I put a Netatmo (Sangamo/Legrande) thermostat and relay into my old home 7 years ago and even moved it to my current home. So it has been looking after my heating smartly for 7 full years and it is still going strong and it is cost less than £100 to buy back then and still is today (another BF deal £150 reduced to £95 ). Regarding individual thermostats on rads, all the smart rad devices are far too expensive from the plumbing/HVAC companies (Netatmo, Drayton etc ) and I so bought a Meross system for my few bedroom rads and it was a fraction of the price. In retrospect, I probably could have managed without and smart rad valves and just turned them down a bit manually.
My wife actually tolerates smart switches. The big thing for her was the ability to tie two switches together without running a whole new set of wires between them. For instance, it allows us to turn all the overhead lights in the kitchen using any one of three switches rather than having to run over to each switch to turn on only one of the lights. She's a little less enthusiastic about the light switches that no longer switch off all power to the fans with lights in them, but actually just switch on and off the light on the fan. The reason she's a bit less fond of that is that there is a measurable delay of about 1 second at best while the automation works its way through from "the light switch was just turned on" to "switch on the light on the fan." Even with completely local operation, I can't seem to get rid of that lag. I do like the hidden relay devices for situations where you actually want to keep the existing switches and I really like the fact that the Aqara one does energy monitoring as well. (The one caveat on the garage door thing is that it's easy if your door opener is just a dry contact itself but takes some more delicate work if your door opener uses a coded signal.) Using it to turn off and on boilers and such is a great idea. "Matter over ZigBee": Honestly, that just sounds weird, but I do like the fact that I can use the ZigBee right now and maybe eventually switch over to Matter control. I'm not that fond of "yet another hub" but at least Aqara makes it a bit easier to get one than most of the folks who have just a dedicated hub thing. Thanks again for a great review and some amusing cut-out gags.
I used Sonoff and Moes zigbee relays in my entire house. Both have smartthings edge drivers, so it's working just like it should. In addition to those, I have a couple of aqara switches and fibaro z-wave dimmers. All work locally.
Hey Paul, good episode, I know Aqara are sponsoring, but please consider an episode on Shelly. They do a Z wave ramge (a better choice for devices like this which are of put metal back/junction boxes, and z wave are more resistant to interference and has a much greater range, just slightly less power efficiency), and are so much better (and smaller).
Great review mate. I really wish you could do a review on light switches that already have the functionality built in. There really isn’t the room in modern switches to fit this, as you pointed out. Thanks tho
Found the Ideal Industries Blue 32A Cable connector 30 piece Set useful. Shame we need Neutral - how some switches manage perfectly well and others don't mystifies me. Must be that some manufacturers dont like the "leaky" method of getting the power to run their device. I've never had a problem especially with "Moe" devices which I've found excellent. Many thanks for the continued useful and interesting vids. Even if I am not really interested, your antics are always worth a look!
How dare you answer my question before I ask 😂😂 great video I really enjoyed it. We are already fully setup with Shelly but I'll definitely take a look at these for other projects. Thanks for the great videos.
I got sick and tired of my TRV's running out of batteries and giving false readings because they were so close to the radiator, so I went and bought wired ones, Aquara relays and Aquara temp sensors. Mounted the temp sensors at the same height as the light switches (middle of the room) at the opposite end of the rooms from the radiators and then used the relays to open and close the wired TRV's (and also one wired to the boiler). Combined with simple temperature control panels in each room, I can heat that room and just that room, and I don't need a central heating controller. Add presence sensors and you can literally have the heating follow you to any room when you are present for more than 5 minutes, or switch off heating and drop it to a lower temp when out of the room for more than 5 minutes. Cool as hell. Currently in the process of adding energy consumption monitors and exterior temp sensors outside so I can design an algorithm that will constantly refine itself to give me the most efficient settings.
Great video bud and excellent safety advice about making sure electricity is isolated correctly. Shelly and ewelink do the same devices but lets see how aquara progress. They seem to making big steps forward at the moment where others have stalled.
I just covered up the original switches behind a white box that screws over the original switch ... you can get to it as a master on/off if needed but you won't be regularly using it as it's easier to then just pres the wireless zigbee switch i put next to it. :)
So much easier to just replace the dumb switch with a smart switch, hard wire the smart bulbs and the switch so they are powered 100% of the time. Then use the smart automation capabilities of your platform to turn the load on and off, or whatever you want it to do. I have several setups of this very configuration using Tuya devices. The smart switch state changes trigger automation, and when the smart bulb state changes (via alexa for example) it uses the automation to change the smart switch state change. Works beautifully. Wife approved.
I installed several Sonoff ZBMini couple of years ago and those were a bit too fat to fit everything (I 3D printed spacers, not a big deal). These T2s look even bigger, though 😮
Good shout to double check the connection at the switch, and not trusting the consumer unit. Nearly caught me out when I was changing a faceplate and found out that the light was connected to the boiler circuit not the downstairs lights circuit!
This does look good, at least at the Black Friday price of £30. For the past two years, I've used IKEA Tradfri Smart Outlets which are £15 (normal price) so the same per channel. I cut them open, remove the circuit board and glue it on to a backbox blanking plate with a small hole for the LED indicator. I doubled up all my switches and installed the blanking plate beside a dual gang switch. One switch selects local or remote control while the other is on/off in local mode. It is disappointing how the industry is all going WiFi - this has a much higher vampire power draw, potentially exposes every device to the open internet, does not do meshing and likely will cause problems with your router which was not designed to support so many nodes.
The concept is great, WAF approved and smart invisibly in the background. However, IMHO the Shelly1 or 2 is a much better choice - much smaller, uses WIFI and is rock solid.
I can also highly recommend the shelly stuff. They're much smaller than this box. Obviously this means using WiFi and not zigbee. And with home assistant it doesn't use the cloud either.
A note that in the US neutral wires weren't that common before the late 60s or so, depending on your state. If your place is older than ~1970 then odds are good you don't have a neutral wire, which reduces or eliminates a lot of smart switch options. I can say from experience that if you're in that situation then the Lutron Caseta line does not require neutral lines and works amazingly well.
I feel your pain. I have had to develop my smart home to a higher tolerance. MAF. I have been using in wall smart relays (usually in ceiling) and dimmers for years now. But your Arquara thermostat solution would not reach the high levels required for Mother Approval Factor. So I had to go with a single manufacturer solution which is energy saving as the boiler will turn off and the latent heat of the radiators will coast up to the desired temperature. This is the Bee’s knees.
Great idea and love the Aqara products, the most reliable stuff I have in my smart home "it just werks". Just a shame it requires neutral, too much hassle for me to change over :(
You can also connect Aqara to SmartThings as a Matter bridge to bring all Aqara devices which is awesome too. When you starting saying "on, off" so many times i was hoping you would play the Google Home sketch that completely ignores what you say 😂
Get an "electrical test pen" and don't use a multimeter to check if the wires are still live. The pen will illuminate an LED and/or make a sound to let you know if the wire is live. They only cost about $10-20USD. In fact, I just used mine at work today. The cabinet where we store our two-way radios did not have power. I was able to use the pen to trace down the line which outlets did not have power and found a GFCI had tripped. (The breaker is still on.)
If you have no neutral you can wire it behind the ceiling rose as there is a neutral there... and its just 2 wires down to the switch...(unless its a multi switch hallway or something)
Have you ever tried the Sonoff ZBMINI-L2? I am thinking about getting those, they are simpler with only one relay, and no mesh repeater, but much smaller and do not need a neutral wire.
The amps rating would stop you from installing it on the main outlet.... or light switch. In the states you typically have 15 amp or 20 amp circuits for plugs and lights. So yes a good relay device for individual things but not so much for an entire circuit path.
If I am not mistaken, you would need to wire this from where your live wire is coming from, so normal in the UK, that's where the bulb is, not the switch.
True. smart thermostats use pid control. These avoid overshooting. It is quite odd to see, in the app, the boiler go on briefly and half an hour later the temperature levels off.
Sonoff and shelly have something similar, I think the shelly one can do LED dimming though. For people worried about working with mains. Its alright, but if you're going to do it you need need to buy the right tools, do not use the screwdriver in your drawer (most likely its those shitty "tester" screwdrivers that light up when mains is present), buy a VDE screwdriver from good brands like knipex, wiha,wera etc, as well as pliers, cutting, stripping tools, and buy a proper voltage indicator AND proving unit (its expensive but you have to buy it, especially for people not used to working with electrics) Also do not attempt anything at all if your fuseboard is still the old rewirable fuse ones, you need to shift your priorities to updating your electrics to current standards first before smartifying anything.
Neet on Black Friday sale as well. I’m not sure if I have a neutral wire or not though What is the best way to check? My house is 15 years old in the UK
America does not have more neutral wire in their switches than we have here in Europe. Originally leading three wires to a switch was only usefull if you wanted to put an electrical wallsocket underneath. That is not different for the US.
I’ve been using the Sonoff Mini to do this sort of thing. Of course, it’s not as simple, given the need to force Tasmota onto it so it’s properly local (I fried three doing this) and it still needs a neutral wire AND it’s not energy monitoring… Look, just buy the sexy Aqara wall switches, which don’t need a neutral and are Zigbee. That’s what I did. Also, what’s wrong with a smart thermostat? The energy monitoring thing is pretty good, though
There are a few applications for this relay, for me personally though I’m using it for the boiler in conjunction with Aqara radiator thermostats. It’s a case of trying to get as many things Zigbee as possible and having the choice to either use home assistant or Aqara as an ecosystem 👍🏻
I'm impressed with your wiring skills, you have come a long way, either that or someone else told you how to do it 😂 The only issue I see with these when using within a light switch is that you need to have a deeper patress box, ours are all shallow ones, having said that, there are spacers available to give more room behind the switch.
Thanks mate! Once the cables are no longer behind a wall it makes so much more sense to me. I learned a lot through this project and it’s amazing what information ChatGPT can give you in confection with the Google searches for clarification!
Making a cake of the wiring 😂 I have a masters in electrical engineering and I open up a ceiling rose and it is like a nest of mad snakes. Usually end up cutting a hole and pushing it all in a nice adaptable box into the ceiling void 😂
Hi Paul great video, always look forward to your content on a Saturday. Hey for me it's my man who likes the old switches :) what I do hate about smart tech is all the stupid hubs that you need, that needs to be banished and now! I was excited when I first saw the video, I thought it might be a Shelly or sonoff device, when you set Aqara, I was like oh no it's going to need a stupid hub :( I'm still looking for the holy grail switch that can control four lights and over Wi-Fi so I think shelly is my only option not seen many reviews though. Thanks again and look forward to your next video take care
for your boiler you could buy an opentherm module (looks like an printplate). You install this module like you mentioned in de vid. i made my stupid boiler to work with Goolge Thermostat.
In North America in older houses it is still possible not to have a neutral at the switch, this is called switch loop/leg... I do not think this is still allowed by the electrical codes but it used to be so there are plenty of houses which do not have a neutral at the switch...
You still need to get your hands on some Quinetic kit Paul - much more refined product line for seamless home integration with a high WAF (Wife Approval Factor).
Sonoff (remember Sonoff?) has had a similar box for a long time (for half the price), theirs is smaller (easier to fit in a box), and it doesn't need a neutral. No Matter, but no matter, IMO. And, of course, they also have their single relay module that doesn't require a neutral - for the same price (about $15 each).
Why did you not get one of those thermostat panels for a boiler? Wouldn't that have been a much better solution? I use a electric heating one for a IR-heating-panel. and it works like a charm. {Still have to get one of those SONOF NS-panel cases. to make it stand on my desk instead of the wall, trough LD20 connectors}
Not a bad product. As you say, a bit large and needs a neutral. Wise words on the electrics. Ask Mr R about replacing his lounge ceiling light in Idonia for Jan 😂
I use much cheaper Tuya Zigbee relays, that work just as well, but are also smaller. In the case of a single light switch, you can get the cheapest ones for like 3-4€ shipped from China. Something like those branded Aubess are very often the cheapest, Sonoff tends to be the least bulky and Girier has very different options, if you have multiple lights you need to have switched with one device.
I wish Aqara would produce this thing without relays inside. Just the power supply and the input side. My lights are smart anyway, so no need to switch them with a relay. I just need the input from the light switch - but this thing (and similar things) just don't fit in the shallow boxes we commonly have here in Germany behind the light switch.
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It would be great to show how your father did the boiler wiring. Ideally would like to replace my google nest products with just T2.
I have sonoff zigbee relais behind a couple of switches for some time now.(couple of years now) they are quite a bit slimmer, the 1 channel version at least. they also have a version without a neutral wire and i believe even a 2 channel version. and are quite cheap. and work fine directly in HA, but no Aqara of course.
For WAF oder HAF it is important to compliment existing functionality. Using an app instead of a light switch is a no go - cannot understand why anybody buys Hue. Where I live there is always a neutral and the switches are button type that can be configrued as momentary NO or NC. This makes it easy for cool stuff like short, long, double and triple press. Shelly Dimmers can have a one button operation and can be also be operated from the second siwtch location in the room. A long press when off will start the lights in the lowest dimmed value, doubleclick will go to max, and long press will alternately dim up and down. Another example is my outside venetian blinds. They close and open with dusk and dawn. If the close button is left pressed in then this automation is blocked. Perfect for happy morning time with the spouse without neighbour interaction.
Happy Saturday everyone!! Major Aqara video coming up off the back of this!! Get it below if you want one!…
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Check out the amazing video on this Relay here: th-cam.com/video/ToJHXnb9BR8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=BC2YJWnbc03VI0vg
There is a T1 version for this. Its not matter but its zigbee. I have been using it for a while and it works perfect. Also On/OFF but half the size.
Have you had a chance to compare with Shelly devices? I know shelly offer a lot of flexibility with the operation of the SW contacts on their devices and with switch on states. Are Aqara similar or is the SW only an override?
@@paulgoffin8054 the reason i choose aqara over Shelly is for a couple reason. 1. Aqara works better with smartthings. I can use aqara without aqara app/bridge. 2. Aqara uses zigbee and Shelly Wifi. I dont like to use up more of the wifi space. I find zigbee to be faster. They have the same funtion On/Off and energy meter. For me its an easy one. I cant really see a reason to use aqara T2 over T1. There must be some reason but I dont know.
@@paulgoffin8054 there are also a similar product from sunrichter. With their product you are able to dim aswell. Not a bad thing for lighting.
3:18 is the funniest thing I've seen and heard all week. rofl
I don't generally comment, but I use a Sonoff Zigbee mini extreme on my light switches. It's great and requires no neutral wire. It doesn't monitor energy use tho.
These look really interesting tho.
I'm glad you mentioned OpenTherm. Here in the Netherlands I understand that the requirements is that all boilers and thermostats have to be OpenTherm compliant. For those that do not know what this means, well effectively it means the thermostat can control the level of demand so that if the room/house is massively too cold then the boiler can be told to go nuts and produce as much heat as possible which may be less efficient. If the room/house is slightly too chilly then the boiler can reduce its output temperature and so use less gas. So I'd really not recommend replacing an OpenTherm setup with a binary on/off system, instead you might want to look at smart thermostats that are smart home compliant.
Just to add to what you said, I can not overstate how amazing DIYLESS Opentherm shield with ESP32 running ESPHOME is for this usecase. You do have to put in some work initially to configure it properly, but then it simply works like a charm.
I recommend using 3 way momentary switches when you run smart modules behind normal switches. We changed our entire house over and the wife didn't want "Smart" switches so we used nice chrome 3 way momentary switches so that you don't have that annoying issue when turned on by the physical switch and off via smart (or visa versa) and the switch being in the wrong place, with momentary switches they just return to "straight". Def an OCD thing but much nicer in my opinion. Work great with a mix of relays and and dimmers. Currently running a mix of Shelly WiFi and Fibaro Z-Wave devices. The aqara looks good, but also massive - would struggle to fit behind a lot of switches without digging out a bigger back box. The new shelly mini's are a game changer in this respect...
I wish more decent momentary switches existed in our local market (AU), they're all garbage
Do you mean 3 position retractive ?
@@daveslack5351 Yeah, I mean they are pretty much the same thing as far as I know (when referring to 3-way)
@@shanemshortAustralian Electrican here, I have put Shelly dimmers throughout my house using 3 position Clipsal Iconic momentary switches... Works rather well. Clipsal P/N CLP49MBPR-XW get them for around $30 each
@@MartyH I’ve had inconsistent binding on the switches, if you don’t hit them straight on they can occasionally stick, which is really annoying if you’re using them with dimmers.
It just surprises me there’s so few options.
Great presentation as always. You're absolutely right about electricity. I've shut off light switches and still had power at the ceiling fixture. This is because in the early days of electrifying homes, lights had a pull cord switch. Adding a wall switch meant running a single (dual conductor) wire to the switch to interrupt power to the bulb. That being said, if you should find a switch box with a single wire going to it, there's a very likely chance that there are live wires there and at the actual light fixture. Nice job changing up the humor too btw.
Thanks dude!! Good to hear these things as it’s a warning to some of the numpties that have previously argued with me in the comments that “if the bulb doesn’t come on the the breaker worked and you can stop worrying “ 🙄
@@paulhibbert That's precisely why I explained the evolution of the wiring components. It immediately shuts down the potential for a debate. As a former electrician, I've seen all sorts of terrible and dangerous wiring done by DIY guys as well as licensed professionals. I will never trust a 220v circuit wired by anyone without pulling every box apart to check it out thoroughly. I've found so many loose connections that could have started a fire that I can't even trust a pro anymore.
I have been doing electrical stuff and turned off the new main breaker and there was one light and one socket still on. After doing some investigation the electrician found they were wired to the building's master backup generator circuit. After that I had him put in a separate breaker for that and then wire it to the Internet and fridge as well. A good thing to find out.
In addition to Shelly there is also Sonoff, which does have Zigbee (and also no-neutral).
I had the Sonoff installed but I found problems in that our electrical boxes are mostly metal (here in Canada) and the Sonoff do not have an external antenna (at least that's what I think the problem is). Ended up using Aqara Zigbee No Neutral switches which work marvelously.
There is avatto too
Great review. Unfortuantely, I don't see how the Aqara T2 Dual Relay would fit on a typical electrical "Gang" box in the states. There is barely enough room to fit the wall switches and wires in the box.
Excellent point made on turning off the power to all circuits at the circuit panel. I have personally experienced electrical circuits wired in series from other rooms that remain on when power is off in the one room you are working on.
While it's possible you're right, adding this is in presents the perfect opportunity to have it replaced with a deeper box.
And if one is already having an electrician add in this relay (which they should be), throwing in a $7-13 box for them to install is probably not a barrier to most.
I ran into the same thing when I was considering buying the Shelly relays. There's no way I could fit a relay in behind my wall switches. And in my older house, there isn't room to be putting in a deeper gang box.@@MindForgedManacle
@@da.mockracy What kind of walls do you have? Most walls can fit deep enough boxes as long as the wall isn't thinner than the box itself, of course. If you have stone walls, you need a powerfull drill (or a chisel and patience). If you have an American drywall, I assume a butterknife made out of chinesium would suffice.
Aqara also have light switches as well, that has neutral and no neutral ones you can buy
as well as remote switches that can be placed anywhere, they have 5 year battery life, , they can function even if the Internet is down (unsure if the remote switch H1 switch can still talk to H1 wired switch when hub is off, but if it's just no Internet the m2/m3 hub changes to local mode)
I wouldn't use a T2 to control existing switch controlled lights the relay modual is to big
As an electrician in Australia, wiring for anyone besides an electrician is a no go. I really appreciate the way you handled the working on electricity and the precautions needed.. Good work.
We have part P here, which can basically be boiled down to "if you are replacing like for like, electrician not required, if you are making a modification, electrician certification required". Which is exactly the reason why, after finishing engineering at uni, I went back to college and did my electrician ratings.
@@martinkeatings7126 yeah, every country is different and Australia has some of the strictest regulations about.
@@MartyHSo does Scotland. I mean you just have to look at our plug sockets to see that. LOL
I did this years ago on our combi boiler with a simple relay and esp 8266 running esphome - it works better than a standard thermostat for me as you can program average temperatures in Home Assistant, or switch the sensor being used for temperature based on time etc.
I've used several Aqara products, including their T1 relays. I've had several T1's burn out whilst using the Aqara temperature probe to determine when to turn on/off the T1 to control low power extractor fans. Despite the fans being well within the operating limits of the T1 I was told by the Aqara people that when the fans are turned on they cause a large spike that will periodically exceed the limitations of the T1, hence causing the burnout over time. The reason I mention this is that you mention you're planning on switching on/off your boiler and you may experience the same issue, despite the T2 having a higher rating. The workaround was to use a device called a Contactor (effectively it's a lower power relay for switching higher power) and use the T1/T2 to power the Contactor to ensure the load stays within specification.
This may be good for 2 lights in a smaller back box. However, I think the fibaro dimmers are a better option, they’re smaller, offer dimming capabilities and also can work without a neutral connection. They also work with a range of switches, including the 3 position retractive for up/down dimming. They have loads of useful options too, such as soft start and action to take following a power cut.
EVVR has a neutral-less Matter-Zigbee smart relay and switch, for those complaining about neutral requirement.
I've never used it so I can't vouch for or against its quality, but there's a potential alternative. It even has an official Home Assistant integration.
I've done a similar thing myself - a Zwave relay from Shelly (Qubino) to control my Combi Boiler directly, to pair with TRVs in every room paired with external temp sensors - a complete room-based heating solution!
Nice!! I’m doing that now too! 😊
Shelly Qubino Wave 2PM same as this but smaller than a puck, and maybe it even works with the stupid sexy cat gateway?
@@paulhibbert I went with cheap (£17/each) Zigbee Tuya TRVs from Aliexpress.
2 months in fantastic performance, 0 issues, very happy! Especially as competitions (Tado, Shelly) cost 3-4x.
Each room has 1-2 TRVs, which are paired with a Sonoff temp sensor on each room too.
Then each room combined into a single thermostat with ‘better thermostat’. (Insert home assistant joke 😅)
Love the content btw Paul 👍 always nice to follow UK based creators
I love your humor and your videos are always entertaining. I wanted to say thank you for flipping serious when talking about the electrics with your demo board. Too many people don't take electricity seriously and are hurt or killed due to it. Keep the awesome content coming!
I love Aqara, great products and definitely the zigbee parts I have had the least amount of issues with. By the way, it is on black Friday sale as well. Comparing this to the Shelly 2PM. The Shelly is slightly cheaper and also has Bluetooth built in. But if you want the best Zigbee device and want all the advantages of the meshing that comes with it, I think the T2 is a great product. Thanks as always for a great and entertaining review Paul. I especially liked your wiring diagram (if it can be trusted ;-)). I prefer this wiring method to how Shelly does theirs. Mine is coming on Monday and I already have two applications for it.
Great video as usual, i may of not quite got what you were saying regarding use in the power circuits, DO Not Use in the back of a plug socket, that circuit is likely to be 30 amps - the thing you plug in can be protected by a 13 amp fuse in the plug. (Much better to use 5 or 3 amp fuse ) so if you want to control something that uses mains power it would go between the thing and the plug that you then plug into the wall socket. Make sure no wires are on show (the relay should be in a box). Also when checking your power is off you should only use a device made to that job and yes check it works before checking the power is off and just as important check it works afterwards too. Do not use a so called “electricians” screwdriver these are only reliable to tell you something is live not dead.
To be honest, I would go further - the instructions should tell you not to install this behind a socket, especially if on a UK style ring main.
@@GodmanchesterGoblin the problem is these things are sold to consumers and in the very small print in the instructions it will say consult a professional if you don't know what you are doing - other than trained competent people who really knows what they are doing with mains electricity? I love what @paulhibbert does but sometimes you need to be careful what you say - a blanket "consult a professional this could kill you " would be better than advising the use of multimeters (the reason he shorts out the socket is because the exposed metal prongs on his metre are too long) and the so called electricians screwdriver ( no electrician would ever use one of these to prove a circuit dead)
@@darrenpage1517This is so true. Although my knowledge is limited to around the 14th edition regs. My teacher (dad. Who, last millennium, would correctly tell his assessors when they were talking rubbish) never trusted those tools. That being said my current home was wired by idiots. Who worked for a property developing politician. I wont say what colour rosette as that would be royally embarrassing.
@darrenpage1517 Indeed. I agree 100%. I've come across a few people who would be inclined to assume that if the lights work and the fuse hasn't blown, then everything's fine. Not true, of course. And using a meter - yes, if you don't know what you're doing, that can kill you too.
Great video as always Paul! 👍🏻. I did something similar throughout our house in 2019 when we had it re-wired. I used a Z-Wave Fibaro double switch module then as it was the only real solution I could find within my budget (about £40 per unit at the time) that allowed me to use our own choice of light switches. I chose retractive light switches so they are never “on” or “off”. Fibaro also does a module which allows dimming if that is important to anyone? The good thing about the Fibaro modules is that they are slightly slimmer than this one allowing them to fit into a deep back box without a further spacer (although it is tight).
I don't understand how people can buy a switch without dimming capability
I have chosen Shelly, which works stable. I have Shelly one and mini, which seems to be smaller than Aqara. They have versions with and without N required
This is a nice addition to the Aqara line. I can think of a few use cases for my home. Thanks for the great review, Paul.
Tuya have had a wifi unit for years and I have used this to control lights for the older members of the family and visitors who do not know who Alexa is! Also the dimmer unit allows you to use these press switches (not on off) to turn on/off lights and dim.
I know it's supposed to be a downside that it lacks dimming, but in a way that can be a plus too. Some implementations can benefit from a simple on/off solution. Simplicity can also remove avenues of failure too, which I also like. Aqara continues to deliver the weird things I require.
Great video as always Paul! This is definitely the most efficient way to automate the light switches around your house if you have deep enough back boxes.
I have been installing these kind of modules since I started my smart home, I use them for lights and shutters.
Since my house and installation is a bit old my light switch back boxes are not deep enough for modules this size, there are however zigbee alternatives that are smaller than this, as a last resort I've also seen people unscrew the casing of the module to reduce the size even more.
I agree that electrical installations can be very unpredicatable, especially if you have an older, not up to code installation like me, however I've found that the combination of turning off the breaker box + using an electricians screwdriver is pretty much all you need, if you don't see a light, you're good to go. Just to be safe I try to never to not make contact between different exposed wires, and never touch exposed wires with both your hands, if you happen to be shocked it will close the circuit with your body which is way worse than having a single contact shock. I've had the latter 2 times while renovating my house, and besides the jumpscare I was just fine.
This Aqara device differentiates itself due to the energy monitoring capability, which not all of most relay modules have, but unless you want to hook it up in your breaker box or something I find it unnecessary as I would typically use a smart plug to monitor an appliance's consumption since it's a much more plug and play solution.
Also I found others I've used to have a simpler wiring than this one, never seen other modules with the need to shunt 2 inputs and have a common for the switch.
It's also a bit pricey, and I kinda understand why, due to having matter, local support and energy monitoring, but unless you really need all of these things you can get zigbee relay modules for half the price, besides the price, the advantage is that you generally have more control if you get a dedicated module, for example one that can do dimming or control your shutters with percentage.
I started my journey in home-automation this way (fibare z-wave relays).
It works very well but you don't always have enough space for these relays behind your switches (and these Aqara's seem even bigger the the Fibaro's).
As far as lights go, smart bulbs are the way to go imho (and wallplugs for everything else) .
Also, when you're moving you'll have to (remember to) get them all out...
I was really excited till I saw that neutral was required.
It is possible to use single devices like this but instead of at the switch put it behind the ceiling rose.
If you look a white switch in the uk is a wire going from the ceiling rose and the switch and back again.
Exactly like Paul wired - only works one light at a time thou
Yeah, it’s a shame. Hopefully there will be an updated version at some point. Great for garage doors, boiler control and other applications though 😊
As Martyn said, it can just be installed at the light. I am tempted by the WiFi meross equivalent for exactly this reason. Smaller factor, so I can put it in the fitting and then it all works as you'd like.
Yout lucky. My house was built in the 90s the bottom half is neutral and the top is non-neutral and we discovered this the hard way when we tried installed smart stuff
is that a UK peculiar thing that we don’t use neutral, or a US peculiar thing that they do?
Aqara & SwitchBot are the only 2 smart home device makers keeping me interested in the space right now
Good shout! There are a few others that are doing some good things and Govee do really good lighting, but it’s these two that are really innovating when it comes to automation ❤️👍🏻 xxx
@@paulhibbert Innovation can be simple when you understand what consumers actually want, I feel like this is where these 2 companies are excelling xxx
Great vid Paul. Get your point but must be different there in the UK.
Here in the US theres no way youll get an electrician to your house for under a couple hundred bucks, even for a simple instal job like these. These are a great option for those inclined and theyre Zigbee!
I don't know about the electrtic code in the UK, but my finnish electrician-persona was crying tears of blood by the colours of the wires used in the sample circuit :D Granted that it doesn't really matter, but ... as you said in the beginning, never trust your fuseboard because it is possible to mix things up - like I believe was done here in regards to the way blue and brown wires were used for the manual switches ;)
You should see Asia, they just buy a big roll of red and do everything. 😱
About time we had more HomeKit stuff Paul - love Aqara and have replaced my main kitchen switches with Aqara ones - these are going to be great 👍
Thanks for another great video, Paul.
I am great fan of Aqara products (part of Xiaomi so they will never go bust) and can see some great applications for this device but it is not very different to the sonoff and thinkbee relays. I put those into my house when I moved in 5 years ago and so had my sparkie put them in the ceiling voids or in a separate hidden mounted box away from the light switch itself for my lights to avoid the issue of too fat switch boxes. I also had to solve the "need for neutral" for my switches anyhow 5 years ago since in those days there were no smart light switches that did it all without neutral, so I got the sparkie to include neutral wires in all my downstairs lights when I was getting it all rewired. he also put in much deeper back boxes (58mm ?) for the smart light switches I decided to use since the electronics even for those is deeper than the basic UK back boxes (38mm ?).
The 10a limit is quite common in most smart plugs too, but there are some that will go up to 13a (Meross and TP-Link products to name 2). I felt it was a necessity for energy measuring power consumption for my dishwasher and my clothes washer/dryer and I gather it might be needed if you are measuring high power loads on start up for things like air fryers and kettles. The Meross and TP-Link (Kasa sub-brand) smart plugs are now only about £9 (UKPds = $11) at present (Black Friday Nov 2023) so it works out cheaper to just buy the smart plugs still in most cases.
Whilst the relay CAN control the combi boiler, I would not advise it since it will only be responding to the internal temperature of one sensor, whereas a good smart thermostat might take into account internal temperatures from a number of sensors AND more importantly factor in the external ambient temperature to heuristically control heat management. I put a Netatmo (Sangamo/Legrande) thermostat and relay into my old home 7 years ago and even moved it to my current home. So it has been looking after my heating smartly for 7 full years and it is still going strong and it is cost less than £100 to buy back then and still is today (another BF deal £150 reduced to £95 ). Regarding individual thermostats on rads, all the smart rad devices are far too expensive from the plumbing/HVAC companies (Netatmo, Drayton etc ) and I so bought a Meross system for my few bedroom rads and it was a fraction of the price. In retrospect, I probably could have managed without and smart rad valves and just turned them down a bit manually.
My wife actually tolerates smart switches. The big thing for her was the ability to tie two switches together without running a whole new set of wires between them. For instance, it allows us to turn all the overhead lights in the kitchen using any one of three switches rather than having to run over to each switch to turn on only one of the lights. She's a little less enthusiastic about the light switches that no longer switch off all power to the fans with lights in them, but actually just switch on and off the light on the fan. The reason she's a bit less fond of that is that there is a measurable delay of about 1 second at best while the automation works its way through from "the light switch was just turned on" to "switch on the light on the fan." Even with completely local operation, I can't seem to get rid of that lag.
I do like the hidden relay devices for situations where you actually want to keep the existing switches and I really like the fact that the Aqara one does energy monitoring as well. (The one caveat on the garage door thing is that it's easy if your door opener is just a dry contact itself but takes some more delicate work if your door opener uses a coded signal.) Using it to turn off and on boilers and such is a great idea.
"Matter over ZigBee": Honestly, that just sounds weird, but I do like the fact that I can use the ZigBee right now and maybe eventually switch over to Matter control. I'm not that fond of "yet another hub" but at least Aqara makes it a bit easier to get one than most of the folks who have just a dedicated hub thing.
Thanks again for a great review and some amusing cut-out gags.
I used Sonoff and Moes zigbee relays in my entire house. Both have smartthings edge drivers, so it's working just like it should. In addition to those, I have a couple of aqara switches and fibaro z-wave dimmers. All work locally.
And I did put the relays in the lamp box cause as you said they won't fit behind the switch easily.
Thank you!…..the 50 pts for Gryphindor bit just cracked me up….tears rolling down my cheeks now!
It was so easy to fit that scene together. It’s almost as if it was meant to be 😂
Was using these 4 years ago, they’re fantastic. Edit* I should clarify I was using sonoff minis
Hey Paul, good episode, I know Aqara are sponsoring, but please consider an episode on Shelly. They do a Z wave ramge (a better choice for devices like this which are of put metal back/junction boxes, and z wave are more resistant to interference and has a much greater range, just slightly less power efficiency), and are so much better (and smaller).
Great review mate. I really wish you could do a review on light switches that already have the functionality built in. There really isn’t the room in modern switches to fit this, as you pointed out. Thanks tho
Aqaras light my switch features in an upcoming video 😊
5:14 I keep hearing somewhere sensually instead of centrally 😂😂😂
Found the Ideal Industries Blue 32A Cable connector 30 piece Set useful. Shame we need Neutral - how some switches manage perfectly well and others don't mystifies me. Must be that some manufacturers dont like the "leaky" method of getting the power to run their device. I've never had a problem especially with "Moe" devices which I've found excellent.
Many thanks for the continued useful and interesting vids. Even if I am not really interested, your antics are always worth a look!
I second that -- best fart joke of 2023 (50 points to Paul)
Best 50 points I ever earned !
If Aqara wants to hit a home run with these... make a dry contact Zibee device like this one that runs on batteries. Huge seller.
How dare you answer my question before I ask 😂😂 great video I really enjoyed it. We are already fully setup with Shelly but I'll definitely take a look at these for other projects. Thanks for the great videos.
I got sick and tired of my TRV's running out of batteries and giving false readings because they were so close to the radiator, so I went and bought wired ones, Aquara relays and Aquara temp sensors. Mounted the temp sensors at the same height as the light switches (middle of the room) at the opposite end of the rooms from the radiators and then used the relays to open and close the wired TRV's (and also one wired to the boiler). Combined with simple temperature control panels in each room, I can heat that room and just that room, and I don't need a central heating controller. Add presence sensors and you can literally have the heating follow you to any room when you are present for more than 5 minutes, or switch off heating and drop it to a lower temp when out of the room for more than 5 minutes. Cool as hell. Currently in the process of adding energy consumption monitors and exterior temp sensors outside so I can design an algorithm that will constantly refine itself to give me the most efficient settings.
Kudos Paul for the quality Elf’n’Safety caveats re electrics. Good one.
Great video bud and excellent safety advice about making sure electricity is isolated correctly.
Shelly and ewelink do the same devices but lets see how aquara progress. They seem to making big steps forward at the moment where others have stalled.
I just covered up the original switches behind a white box that screws over the original switch ... you can get to it as a master on/off if needed but you won't be regularly using it as it's easier to then just pres the wireless zigbee switch i put next to it. :)
So much easier to just replace the dumb switch with a smart switch, hard wire the smart bulbs and the switch so they are powered 100% of the time.
Then use the smart automation capabilities of your platform to turn the load on and off, or whatever you want it to do.
I have several setups of this very configuration using Tuya devices. The smart switch state changes trigger automation, and when the smart bulb state changes (via alexa for example) it uses the automation to change the smart switch state change. Works beautifully. Wife approved.
I installed several Sonoff ZBMini couple of years ago and those were a bit too fat to fit everything (I 3D printed spacers, not a big deal). These T2s look even bigger, though 😮
Good shout to double check the connection at the switch, and not trusting the consumer unit. Nearly caught me out when I was changing a faceplate and found out that the light was connected to the boiler circuit not the downstairs lights circuit!
This does look good, at least at the Black Friday price of £30. For the past two years, I've used IKEA Tradfri Smart Outlets which are £15 (normal price) so the same per channel. I cut them open, remove the circuit board and glue it on to a backbox blanking plate with a small hole for the LED indicator. I doubled up all my switches and installed the blanking plate beside a dual gang switch. One switch selects local or remote control while the other is on/off in local mode. It is disappointing how the industry is all going WiFi - this has a much higher vampire power draw, potentially exposes every device to the open internet, does not do meshing and likely will cause problems with your router which was not designed to support so many nodes.
The concept is great, WAF approved and smart invisibly in the background. However, IMHO the Shelly1 or 2 is a much better choice - much smaller, uses WIFI and is rock solid.
The Shelly stuff is ace, but if you’re after Zigbee, or Matter support then this is the one!
Thanks Paul. Happy Saturday.
AQARA I agree Paul. Best move Ive made away from other brands
I like the way that Brett guy got his garage door working with his voice sititant.
I can also highly recommend the shelly stuff. They're much smaller than this box. Obviously this means using WiFi and not zigbee. And with home assistant it doesn't use the cloud either.
A note that in the US neutral wires weren't that common before the late 60s or so, depending on your state. If your place is older than ~1970 then odds are good you don't have a neutral wire, which reduces or eliminates a lot of smart switch options. I can say from experience that if you're in that situation then the Lutron Caseta line does not require neutral lines and works amazingly well.
I feel your pain.
I have had to develop my smart home to a higher tolerance. MAF.
I have been using in wall smart relays (usually in ceiling) and dimmers for years now. But your Arquara thermostat solution would not reach the high levels required for Mother Approval Factor. So I had to go with a single manufacturer solution which is energy saving as the boiler will turn off and the latent heat of the radiators will coast up to the desired temperature. This is the Bee’s knees.
For doing the boiler, do you not have a thermostat?
Using hue switches for a long time now. It just works 😂
Great idea and love the Aqara products, the most reliable stuff I have in my smart home "it just werks". Just a shame it requires neutral, too much hassle for me to change over :(
You can also connect Aqara to SmartThings as a Matter bridge to bring all Aqara devices which is awesome too.
When you starting saying "on, off" so many times i was hoping you would play the Google Home sketch that completely ignores what you say 😂
Nice!! I hadn’t thought about smart things!
Get an "electrical test pen" and don't use a multimeter to check if the wires are still live. The pen will illuminate an LED and/or make a sound to let you know if the wire is live. They only cost about $10-20USD.
In fact, I just used mine at work today. The cabinet where we store our two-way radios did not have power. I was able to use the pen to trace down the line which outlets did not have power and found a GFCI had tripped. (The breaker is still on.)
Do you think this would work with exteriour blinds/shades ? That currently have only UP/DOWN control switch?
If you have no neutral you can wire it behind the ceiling rose as there is a neutral there... and its just 2 wires down to the switch...(unless its a multi switch hallway or something)
Have you ever tried the Sonoff ZBMINI-L2? I am thinking about getting those, they are simpler with only one relay, and no mesh repeater, but much smaller and do not need a neutral wire.
What will you recommend to make a water heater smart. My uses around 30amps circuit at 220volts. Have not found a suitable smart switch for it.
The amps rating would stop you from installing it on the main outlet.... or light switch. In the states you typically have 15 amp or 20 amp circuits for plugs and lights. So yes a good relay device for individual things but not so much for an entire circuit path.
Hi Paul, Sonoff offer similar, would they be an alternative?
Definitely, the Shelly stuff is ace, but if you’re after Zigbee, or Matter support then this is the one! Just down to personal requirements
I make all my lights in this way with Shelly switches. I think that is the best solution use Alexa, app, automations and physical switch too
If I am not mistaken, you would need to wire this from where your live wire is coming from, so normal in the UK, that's where the bulb is, not the switch.
As Paul mentions I would definitely recommend a heating focused solution like Tado over this solution for controlling heating though
True.
smart thermostats use pid control. These avoid overshooting. It is quite odd to see, in the app, the boiler go on briefly and half an hour later the temperature levels off.
The Avatto zigbee reles are extremely cheap and it is awesome
Sonoff and shelly have something similar, I think the shelly one can do LED dimming though. For people worried about working with mains. Its alright, but if you're going to do it you need need to buy the right tools, do not use the screwdriver in your drawer (most likely its those shitty "tester" screwdrivers that light up when mains is present), buy a VDE screwdriver from good brands like knipex, wiha,wera etc, as well as pliers, cutting, stripping tools, and buy a proper voltage indicator AND proving unit (its expensive but you have to buy it, especially for people not used to working with electrics) Also do not attempt anything at all if your fuseboard is still the old rewirable fuse ones, you need to shift your priorities to updating your electrics to current standards first before smartifying anything.
Do non-Aqara Zigbee devices work with the Aqara hub? Thank you.
Hasn't Shelly been doing these for ages !!
See the end of the video 😉
@@paulhibbert👍👍
Yes, but a Paul said, Sonoff is wi-fi and you. may be interested in a zigbee mesh instead
Neet on Black Friday sale as well.
I’m not sure if I have a neutral wire or not though
What is the best way to check? My house is 15 years old in the UK
Love the light switch accesories but one thing pisses me off you have to have a neutral wire to have those work; yes/no?
Shelly's relatively recently come up with their Shelly Qubino lineup, which is ZWave. Not quite Zigbee, but not wifi!
Good morning Paul. Haven't been here for a few weeks. Will you do another ring camera review? Or will Mr socky strangle you if you do another one 😂
Mr Socky has eaten all the ring cameras!
America does not have more neutral wire in their switches than we have here in Europe. Originally leading three wires to a switch was only usefull if you wanted to put an electrical wallsocket underneath. That is not different for the US.
I’ve been using the Sonoff Mini to do this sort of thing. Of course, it’s not as simple, given the need to force Tasmota onto it so it’s properly local (I fried three doing this) and it still needs a neutral wire AND it’s not energy monitoring… Look, just buy the sexy Aqara wall switches, which don’t need a neutral and are Zigbee. That’s what I did.
Also, what’s wrong with a smart thermostat?
The energy monitoring thing is pretty good, though
There are a few applications for this relay, for me personally though I’m using it for the boiler in conjunction with Aqara radiator thermostats. It’s a case of trying to get as many things Zigbee as possible and having the choice to either use home assistant or Aqara as an ecosystem 👍🏻
I'm impressed with your wiring skills, you have come a long way, either that or someone else told you how to do it 😂
The only issue I see with these when using within a light switch is that you need to have a deeper patress box, ours are all shallow ones, having said that, there are spacers available to give more room behind the switch.
I was just about to leave a comment saying that, k/o and pattresses are usually 16mm deep. Can't see that relay fitting in.👍
Thanks mate! Once the cables are no longer behind a wall it makes so much more sense to me. I learned a lot through this project and it’s amazing what information ChatGPT can give you in confection with the Google searches for clarification!
Making a cake of the wiring 😂
I have a masters in electrical engineering and I open up a ceiling rose and it is like a nest of mad snakes. Usually end up cutting a hole and pushing it all in a nice adaptable box into the ceiling void 😂
Have you tried Shelly? Aqara=head explosion-Shelly=whole body explosion 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Shelly can run in Wi-Fi/Bluetooth and local
Hi Paul great video, always look forward to your content on a Saturday.
Hey for me it's my man who likes the old switches :) what I do hate about smart tech is all the stupid hubs that you need, that needs to be banished and now!
I was excited when I first saw the video, I thought it might be a Shelly or sonoff device, when you set Aqara, I was like oh no it's going to need a stupid hub :(
I'm still looking for the holy grail switch that can control four lights and over Wi-Fi so I think shelly is my only option not seen many reviews though.
Thanks again and look forward to your next video take care
Congratulations. You just set off she who must not be named.
She ended up searching for sexy cat. 😂
for your boiler you could buy an opentherm module (looks like an printplate). You install this module like you mentioned in de vid. i made my stupid boiler to work with Goolge Thermostat.
Rather than the switch, install at the light fitting in the ceiling?
In North America in older houses it is still possible not to have a neutral at the switch, this is called switch loop/leg... I do not think this is still allowed by the electrical codes but it used to be so there are plenty of houses which do not have a neutral at the switch...
Good to know, thanks brother!
You still need to get your hands on some Quinetic kit Paul - much more refined product line for seamless home integration with a high WAF (Wife Approval Factor).
Sonoff (remember Sonoff?) has had a similar box for a long time (for half the price), theirs is smaller (easier to fit in a box), and it doesn't need a neutral. No Matter, but no matter, IMO. And, of course, they also have their single relay module that doesn't require a neutral - for the same price (about $15 each).
This is covered at the end of the video
Why did you not get one of those thermostat panels for a boiler?
Wouldn't that have been a much better solution?
I use a electric heating one for a IR-heating-panel. and it works like a charm.
{Still have to get one of those SONOF NS-panel cases. to make it stand on my desk instead of the wall, trough LD20 connectors}
Sorry Paul but what about Sonoff? Like the ZBMINI or the CANDEO dimmer thjat can dim and both are Zigbee etc?
Not a bad product. As you say, a bit large and needs a neutral. Wise words on the electrics. Ask Mr R about replacing his lounge ceiling light in Idonia for Jan 😂
Any ideas what to do without a neutral wire?
I use much cheaper Tuya Zigbee relays, that work just as well, but are also smaller. In the case of a single light switch, you can get the cheapest ones for like 3-4€ shipped from China. Something like those branded Aubess are very often the cheapest, Sonoff tends to be the least bulky and Girier has very different options, if you have multiple lights you need to have switched with one device.
I wish Aqara would produce this thing without relays inside. Just the power supply and the input side. My lights are smart anyway, so no need to switch them with a relay. I just need the input from the light switch - but this thing (and similar things) just don't fit in the shallow boxes we commonly have here in Germany behind the light switch.
It would be great to show how your father did the boiler wiring. Ideally would like to replace my google nest products with just T2.
The same Idea fulfill Shelly, but smaller in size. And more options.
I have sonoff zigbee relais behind a couple of switches for some time now.(couple of years now) they are quite a bit slimmer, the 1 channel version at least. they also have a version without a neutral wire and i believe even a 2 channel version. and are quite cheap. and work fine directly in HA, but no Aqara of course.
Sonoff don’t get anywhere near enough airtime on TH-cam…
Is there some possibility for someone with no neutral wire please?
The SONOFF ZBMINIL2 Zigbee switch is better option for lights. Way smaller and less wires. Doesn't need neutral.
For WAF oder HAF it is important to compliment existing functionality. Using an app instead of a light switch is a no go - cannot understand why anybody buys Hue. Where I live there is always a neutral and the switches are button type that can be configrued as momentary NO or NC. This makes it easy for cool stuff like short, long, double and triple press. Shelly Dimmers can have a one button operation and can be also be operated from the second siwtch location in the room. A long press when off will start the lights in the lowest dimmed value, doubleclick will go to max, and long press will alternately dim up and down. Another example is my outside venetian blinds. They close and open with dusk and dawn. If the close button is left pressed in then this automation is blocked. Perfect for happy morning time with the spouse without neighbour interaction.