I still believe the developers could've avoided a lot of backlash regarding the variant civs, if they had done some proper branding. In the light of them being a variant of an existing civilization, I think they should have been named Faction civilizations and existing core civilizations should be named Empire civilizations. That means that the variants are tagged as factions within an existing empire. Both are still named civilizations or civs for short, for that is what people are used to, but they would be differentiated by their tag of either being a faction civ or an empire civ.
To answer your question, yes the Teutonic Knights were basically trying to 'Crusade' the Rus. Or at least expand their sphere of influence and justify it using Religion. The infamous Fourth Crusade where the Crusaders sacked Constantinople is another example of crusading against Orthodox Christians. Interestingly though, very shortly after pushing back the Teutonic Knights, Novgorod surrendered immediately to the Mongols without a fight, leaving them free from the devastation of the other Rus principalities, and making Nevsky a well-respected vassal to the Mongols. This was perhaps because they knew that the Mongols, unlike the Teutonic Knights, were tolerant of their subjects' Religions and demanded only tribute, not conversion.
The 4th crusade being an example of crusading vs Orthodox Christians on the basis of them being Orthodox is propaganda. The reason why those crusaders were in Constantinople in the first place is because a usurping ERE emperor invited them there but he couldn't pay them. Also 20 years before that, the citizens of Constantinople massacred the Catholics in the city ("Massacre of the Latins"), so there was some animosity from the Venetian contingent for that. Finally they were already automatically and then actively excommunicated. But you are right on the other points.
In a sense, yes. The Mongols, unlike the Teutons for the principalities of Rus', be it Novgorod or Suzdal and so on, were more raiders than conquerors, they did not conquer the territory itself for settlement (since they were nomads and the territory of Rus', at least the northern one, was not suitable for this at all), but to receive tribute. Therefore, they did not care about their tributaries, what religion they were, what their culture or ethnicity was. The Teutons essentially wanted to own both land and people, to put their own culture, religion and rulers on the board and precisely from their own people. The Russian principalities chose the "lesser evil" because they had neither people, nor cohesion (principalities fought with each other) and forces to fight on two fronts with 2 factions operating with different tactics
I think i would prefer the teutonic order kinda seperated. So they could come in with a campaign with Poland or Lithuania. 17:25 that´s also how the maltese work in AoE3.
Great video Chilly! your ideas for the crusader civ sound so good! an amalgamation of all the civs that participated on the crusades.. but maybe instead of a copy-paste of other civ landmarks and units, It could be like the byzantines.. it is it's own civ, with it own flavour and colours, however it does have a lot of units from other civs, maybe it could take both routes..... one landmark option would be a landmark similar to that of a European civ (Council hall, School of chivalry) and the other Landmark could be unique to the crusaders civ. and this repeats, you get to chose between two paths, the Unique path of the Crusader civ, with its own units and landmarks, or the path of it's "father" civs, with units such as Longbow or Varanguian guard. so yeah its a civ with a lot of landmarks and units from other civs, but it also has its own landmarks and units, its up to you to chose the right path for u.
As someone with a history degree and a large interest in the crusades, I'm really hoping the Kingdom of Jerusalem will make a full civilization at some point, I understand your point on the overlap with other civs, but I still cant help but pray it happens and there is so much history to go off for unique mechanics, landmarks, and units. I was hoping you could check out my post on the forums titled 'Lets make the Ayyubids more representative of Saladin and his legacy' if you haven't seen it already. For some civ variants i'd really like to see Teutonic order for HRE, its just so perfect, for English I think even a Kingdom of Scotland could be really cool, but tbf I'd rather see them as their own civ. A potential variant for Byzantines could be the Latin Empire set after the 4th crusade.
@kronos4292 oh boy you're the man himself! Your post delighted me a lot as it resonates with my frustration at the jumble fumble of "concepts" of the Ayyubids, and this is still true even as I enjoy their mechanics and units, it's still a conceptual mess. For something that was intended to be named "the sultans army" what did I expect :/ What breaks my heart though is that this almost certainly is never going to be a priority for relic/world's edge/microsoft, why bother revamping a civs that already made its money. Even if passionate developers agreed with such opinions and wanted to do that- it's not their choice. Even more so with the even MORE layoffs 💔 @ChillyEmpire here's the link chilly. Also, I ain't believing Ayyubids used "camel lancers" untill it's source proven :P forums.ageofempires.com/t/lets-make-the-ayyubids-more-representative-of-saladin-and-his-legacy/249885
Great video, i wanna see dzungars or yuan dynasty as mongols variant cuz these 2 empire can have more enjoyable mechanics, and making golden horde as mongols new variant will be no difference they were always been nomadic so its no difference but other two empires i mentioned are have good potential to be good variants
golden horde, Chagatai khanate? these are unique in their own ways. golden horde, has a medieval Mongol Turco mix to their empire's dominion, of course it's still officially Mongol but still. unique. not only that, but for the first time we get new Mongol empires ruling under the banner of a different religion, which makes it more interesting, also more people {from Europe} are more familiar with golden horde then let's say the yuan dynasty etc., it only makes the Kievan Rus and golden horde matchups more spicey and interesting.
@@AaronOmar-co8bn true they have their own unique but we need to see who can fit game more ,golden horde was close to Europe yes thats true but their mechanic same as like mongols nomadic and if they add golden horde its just same as like mongols just few differences and almost same while if we look at other empires that has potential to be mongols variant and one of them is dzungar they can be good variant and it depends on how dev do their design in variants
@@otgoo11042 your correct, it is a Mongol khanate which is in part of the overall Mongol empire like the rest of the 3 khanates. however, dzungars as you mentioned won't be relevant since they are not a part of the 4 Mongol khanates {Mongol empire}, that's why the devs won't choose them or pick yuan dynasty, most likely if I am not mistaken, would be Ilkhanate {Muslim Mongol-Turco khanate} or the other 2 etc.
I think for a crusader varient it would be better if it was a Byzantine one. There mercenary mechanics fits a lot better for them and they could change it up so instead of mercenary’s it could be certain orders to choose from like the Teutonic order or The knights Templar’s and if you choose the English order you could get a hero unit with it like the lion heart. I believe the buildings for better for the region aswell, same for the music and for the crusader units all they would have to do is use the assets in the campaign and just swap the model of certain units. Imagine a Landsknechte in a crusader armour or if you go with Teutonic order you get HRE mma with different armour but with the mace upgrade. It has so much potential to be an interesting civ and it shouldn’t cost them much at all with they’re assest already existing in campaign. I really hope they use this and even if these leaks are a bug I still believe they can pull off a crusader varient and I’d gladly pay 10$ for it
question, if variant civs are coming for specifically Kievan Rus or English etc., wont Delhi or ottoman also get their variants? or the devs just picking specific variants for some civs?
I will never not think that Jeanne as a whole civilization was a mistake. She was already a huge part of the french faction being featured in artworks and in the campaign.
*old man voice*: I do remember the Dark Ages of AoE4 ... every round English and French :( Maybe it´s a leak. Maybe it´s a bug. Probably is a bug because the foundation was made by Relic. That said: I welcome any new content in terms of civs to the game-. Sultans Ascend was a bit wonky on release in terms of balance but at least it brought some new wind in.
And the second idea is wedge formation for knights (knight avaliable in castle age), which youcan use if you have more than X knights, because this formation uses widely on the Western Europe was characteristic for Republica of Novogrod and not uses in the rest of Medieval Russia.
Delhi was conquered by Timur....so Timur could be a variant of Delhi....btw i don't understand why history fans don't consider Timur....he conquered Delhi Persia Abbasid Asia Minor....he was one of greatest conquerer of all the Times but none consider him
The Timurids will be a variant civ of the Mongols instead. I suggest that the DS variant will be the pro-Hinduist Rajput Clans. The Dravidians? Their own very distinct civilization that used to make the Indian Ocean their B-word.
do the campaign for the rus the fall of the novgorod republic the veche bell might be a wonder for Novorod it will probably be a exstesion for the rus like jeanne of arc
I know im nittpicking here but you have Russ and England. Which are actually viking nations, because they were conquered and built up by vikings. What you mean is Norse nations, viking is a practice or position/labour. Viking means raid, its the north equivalent to pirates.
I still believe the developers could've avoided a lot of backlash regarding the variant civs, if they had done some proper branding. In the light of them being a variant of an existing civilization, I think they should have been named Faction civilizations and existing core civilizations should be named Empire civilizations. That means that the variants are tagged as factions within an existing empire. Both are still named civilizations or civs for short, for that is what people are used to, but they would be differentiated by their tag of either being a faction civ or an empire civ.
I like this a lot
To answer your question, yes the Teutonic Knights were basically trying to 'Crusade' the Rus. Or at least expand their sphere of influence and justify it using Religion. The infamous Fourth Crusade where the Crusaders sacked Constantinople is another example of crusading against Orthodox Christians. Interestingly though, very shortly after pushing back the Teutonic Knights, Novgorod surrendered immediately to the Mongols without a fight, leaving them free from the devastation of the other Rus principalities, and making Nevsky a well-respected vassal to the Mongols. This was perhaps because they knew that the Mongols, unlike the Teutonic Knights, were tolerant of their subjects' Religions and demanded only tribute, not conversion.
Ah! Thanks. Great write up.
The 4th crusade being an example of crusading vs Orthodox Christians on the basis of them being Orthodox is propaganda. The reason why those crusaders were in Constantinople in the first place is because a usurping ERE emperor invited them there but he couldn't pay them. Also 20 years before that, the citizens of Constantinople massacred the Catholics in the city ("Massacre of the Latins"), so there was some animosity from the Venetian contingent for that. Finally they were already automatically and then actively excommunicated. But you are right on the other points.
In a sense, yes. The Mongols, unlike the Teutons for the principalities of Rus', be it Novgorod or Suzdal and so on, were more raiders than conquerors, they did not conquer the territory itself for settlement (since they were nomads and the territory of Rus', at least the northern one, was not suitable for this at all), but to receive tribute. Therefore, they did not care about their tributaries, what religion they were, what their culture or ethnicity was. The Teutons essentially wanted to own both land and people, to put their own culture, religion and rulers on the board and precisely from their own people. The Russian principalities chose the "lesser evil" because they had neither people, nor cohesion (principalities fought with each other) and forces to fight on two fronts with 2 factions operating with different tactics
I think i would prefer the teutonic order kinda seperated. So they could come in with a campaign with Poland or Lithuania.
17:25 that´s also how the maltese work in AoE3.
Great video Chilly! your ideas for the crusader civ sound so good! an amalgamation of all the civs that participated on the crusades.. but maybe instead of a copy-paste of other civ landmarks and units, It could be like the byzantines.. it is it's own civ, with it own flavour and colours, however it does have a lot of units from other civs, maybe it could take both routes..... one landmark option would be a landmark similar to that of a European civ (Council hall, School of chivalry) and the other Landmark could be unique to the crusaders civ. and this repeats, you get to chose between two paths, the Unique path of the Crusader civ, with its own units and landmarks, or the path of it's "father" civs, with units such as Longbow or Varanguian guard. so yeah its a civ with a lot of landmarks and units from other civs, but it also has its own landmarks and units, its up to you to chose the right path for u.
As someone with a history degree and a large interest in the crusades, I'm really hoping the Kingdom of Jerusalem will make a full civilization at some point, I understand your point on the overlap with other civs, but I still cant help but pray it happens and there is so much history to go off for unique mechanics, landmarks, and units. I was hoping you could check out my post on the forums titled 'Lets make the Ayyubids more representative of Saladin and his legacy' if you haven't seen it already. For some civ variants i'd really like to see Teutonic order for HRE, its just so perfect, for English I think even a Kingdom of Scotland could be really cool, but tbf I'd rather see them as their own civ. A potential variant for Byzantines could be the Latin Empire set after the 4th crusade.
Mind linking your post?
@kronos4292 oh boy you're the man himself! Your post delighted me a lot as it resonates with my frustration at the jumble fumble of "concepts" of the Ayyubids, and this is still true even as I enjoy their mechanics and units, it's still a conceptual mess. For something that was intended to be named "the sultans army" what did I expect :/
What breaks my heart though is that this almost certainly is never going to be a priority for relic/world's edge/microsoft, why bother revamping a civs that already made its money. Even if passionate developers agreed with such opinions and wanted to do that- it's not their choice. Even more so with the even MORE layoffs 💔
@ChillyEmpire here's the link chilly. Also, I ain't believing Ayyubids used "camel lancers" untill it's source proven :P
forums.ageofempires.com/t/lets-make-the-ayyubids-more-representative-of-saladin-and-his-legacy/249885
@ETheeb Thanks I did try to post the link but idk where its gone, and honestly camel lancers are the most outrageous part of the Ayyubids.
i just wanted visual tweaks with the mounted samurai like come on the shield and the sword orientation are very unpleasing.
Great video, i wanna see dzungars or yuan dynasty as mongols variant cuz these 2 empire can have more enjoyable mechanics, and making golden horde as mongols new variant will be no difference they were always been nomadic so its no difference but other two empires i mentioned are have good potential to be good variants
golden horde, Chagatai khanate? these are unique in their own ways.
golden horde, has a medieval Mongol Turco mix to their empire's dominion, of course it's still officially Mongol but still. unique. not only that, but for the first time we get new Mongol empires ruling under the banner of a different religion, which makes it more interesting, also more people {from Europe} are more familiar with golden horde then let's say the yuan dynasty etc., it only makes the Kievan Rus and golden horde matchups more spicey and interesting.
@@AaronOmar-co8bn true they have their own unique but we need to see who can fit game more ,golden horde was close to Europe yes thats true but their mechanic same as like mongols nomadic and if they add golden horde its just same as like mongols just few differences and almost same while if we look at other empires that has potential to be mongols variant and one of them is dzungar they can be good variant and it depends on how dev do their design in variants
@@otgoo11042 also forgot to mention, yuan dynasty is already in the game, it's an age up in Chinese civ.
@@AaronOmar-co8bn well its mongol dynasty so making yuan as chinese is wrong
@@otgoo11042 your correct, it is a Mongol khanate which is in part of the overall Mongol empire like the rest of the 3 khanates.
however, dzungars as you mentioned won't be relevant since they are not a part of the 4 Mongol khanates {Mongol empire}, that's why the devs won't choose them or pick yuan dynasty, most likely if I am not mistaken, would be Ilkhanate {Muslim Mongol-Turco khanate} or the other 2 etc.
I think for a crusader varient it would be better if it was a Byzantine one. There mercenary mechanics fits a lot better for them and they could change it up so instead of mercenary’s it could be certain orders to choose from like the Teutonic order or The knights Templar’s and if you choose the English order you could get a hero unit with it like the lion heart. I believe the buildings for better for the region aswell, same for the music and for the crusader units all they would have to do is use the assets in the campaign and just swap the model of certain units. Imagine a Landsknechte in a crusader armour or if you go with Teutonic order you get HRE mma with different armour but with the mace upgrade. It has so much potential to be an interesting civ and it shouldn’t cost them much at all with they’re assest already existing in campaign. I really hope they use this and even if these leaks are a bug I still believe they can pull off a crusader varient and I’d gladly pay 10$ for it
question, if variant civs are coming for specifically Kievan Rus or English etc., wont Delhi or ottoman also get their variants? or the devs just picking specific variants for some civs?
Kievan Rus ?
People suspect it’ll be the other 4 base civs first - English, Rus, Mongol, Delhi Sultanate.
I will never not think that Jeanne as a whole civilization was a mistake. She was already a huge part of the french faction being featured in artworks and in the campaign.
*old man voice*: I do remember the Dark Ages of AoE4 ... every round English and French :(
Maybe it´s a leak. Maybe it´s a bug. Probably is a bug because the foundation was made by Relic.
That said: I welcome any new content in terms of civs to the game-.
Sultans Ascend was a bit wonky on release in terms of balance but at least it brought some new wind in.
My idea for special unit for Novogrod. Ushkuyniks - formo form of MAA recruited in docks :)
And the second idea is wedge formation for knights (knight avaliable in castle age), which youcan use if you have more than X knights, because this formation uses widely on the Western Europe was characteristic for Republica of Novogrod and not uses in the rest of Medieval Russia.
Delhi was conquered by Timur....so Timur could be a variant of Delhi....btw i don't understand why history fans don't consider Timur....he conquered Delhi Persia Abbasid Asia Minor....he was one of greatest conquerer of all the Times but none consider him
The Timurids will be a variant civ of the Mongols instead.
I suggest that the DS variant will be the pro-Hinduist Rajput Clans.
The Dravidians? Their own very distinct civilization that used to make the Indian Ocean their B-word.
I just wish they truly are leaks XD
do the campaign for the rus the fall of the novgorod republic the veche bell might be a wonder for Novorod it will probably be a exstesion for the rus like jeanne of arc
variant civ of rus future people tell me if im right
The men still wanna hero units in rts game not talking how broken jana was and not fitting the game he suggest 2 more hero civs
Im going to be pissed if Cyprus ends up being real
Variant civ of the Byzantines, the other being the Despotate of Epirus/Epeirou potentially
Why? The Lusignan Kingdom of Cyprus is better and more logical than that Jade Empire, Order of Dragon or fucking Joan of Arc
Why so sour bro?
I need traditional Chinese CC
I want my Viking nations :(
here take byzantine😂😂
I know im nittpicking here but you have Russ and England. Which are actually viking nations, because they were conquered and built up by vikings. What you mean is Norse nations, viking is a practice or position/labour. Viking means raid, its the north equivalent to pirates.
MONGOL
Love you chilly but your team is trash in team games. ❤
Damage control by paid company shills?
Too much uhms and aaahss
The video starts at 4:00 uhmm aahh uhmm