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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2018
- The path to real reform and accountability is to end the subsidies from drivers and taxpayers, and make the subway live off its customers once and for all.
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The New York City Subway is the circulatory system for the global capital of finance and media, and today this 114-year-old engineering marvel is coming apart. Stalled trains, signal breakdowns, and constant line closures are complicating the lives of New Yorkers, who ride the trains more than five and a half million times a day.
The MTA, the public agency that runs the subways, is woefully mismanaged, fiscally irresponsible, and politically captured. Thanks to the clout of the Transit Workers Union, subway workers on average make $155,000 in total annual compensation, or more than twice as much as the passengers they serve.
The political response to this crisis has been mainly to devise new ways to collect more money for this troubled operation, such as a new "millionaires tax" or by imposing additional tolls and surcharges on cars.
But a major lesson from the first 114 years of subway history is that giving the MTA more money from outside sources is like bringing an alcoholic to an open bar. The path to real reform and accountability is to make the subway live off its customers once and for all.
Go here for full text, links, and downloadable versions: reason.com/reasontv/2018/05/1...
Written, shot, and edited by Jim Epstein. Narrated by Nick Gillespie. Interview cameras by Mark McDaniel and Todd Krainin.
"New Baby" and "Subway Song" by Nicola Paone, Public Domain, archive.org.
"Fun in a Bottle", "Fast Talkin," and "C-Funk - Funkorama" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
Photo Credits:
Andrew Cuomo: Michael Brochstein/Sipa USA/Newscom
Save Our Subways Protester: Erik McGregor/Sipa USA/Newscom
Bill de Blasio: Paul Martinka / Splash News/Newscom
Make the Rich Pay: Michael Nigro/Sipa USA/Newscom
Congestion pricing now: Erik McGregor / Pacific Press/Newscom
Sheldon Silver and Cuomo: HANS PENNINK/REUTERS/Newscom
Nelson Rockefeller: Danita Delimont Photography/Newscom
NYC Toolbooth: Susan Pease / DanitaDelimont.com "Danita Delimont Photography"/Newscom
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This argument only makes sense if you're going to apply the same logic to every other form of transportation as well. If subway riders have to pay the full cost of the subway system, then car drivers should also have to pay the full cost of the road system (which right now is largely paid by federal tax dollars from the federal income tax). There's nothing "reasonable" or "free market" about completely subsidizing one transportation system at the expense of all others.
@Alexander Averhoff
In aggregate, the vast majority of road spending is a public rather than private expense. The people using the roads are not paying per the amount they are using them.
If you wanted a fair and free market, the trains should see an equal proportion of public:private spending as the roads. Only privatizing one leaves an equilibrium that is not the market equilibrium.
Privatizing the trains (which this video argues) while failing to privitize roads (a much much larger expense they conveniently do not mention) is the government redistributing money to affluent people who drive cars.
There's one flaw in your argument. Drivers are already overpaying for going into the city in the form of parking fees, fines and tolls. Its unfair that drivers who might drive into the city only a couple of times a year pay more for the city roads and get less benefits from them, than the non-diving residents do. Just because you don't drive doesn't mean you dont benefit from the roads and bridges. They are how all the produce and products and building materials get into and around the city. a large percentage of commuters, if not most, live outside the city whether they drive or take public transit.
If everyone was to pay fully for their mode of transportation (even biking and walking) then the price would be so high people wouldn't be able to get around. The only real solution is tocut waste and find a way to increase revenue other than from fees and taxes.
$8 - $10 per ride is not that much? Seriously? Most people in New York city don't own cars and use the subway as their primary mode of transportation, several rides on the subway per day is common place for most New Yorkers. Do the math and then reevaluate that statement.
Tine Woodbe They said they would give vouchers to people who couldnt afford it. And it is NYC the workers make 150k a year and the passengers make 70k.
John Griffith SAID: "They said they would give vouchers to people who couldnt afford it. And it is NYC the workers make 150k a year and the passengers make 70k."
REPLY: Giving government tax dollar funded vouchers contradicts the entire point. Also, what is the income level of eligibility? Did you verify the 70K income for passengers figure? Do so, you will find that is an average for New Yorkers when factoring in the relative handful of "1 percenters" that claim a residence in NYC, most New Yorkers do not make 70K a year. Even if they did, 70K is nothing after paying the comically high rents and other living expenses of living in New York. Again, do the math: taking the average of the proposal, $9 per ride, to and from just two destinations a day amounts to $13,140 per year! That's almost a 5th of that 70K just in subway fare!
I maintain, this proposal is not well thought out.
I'm German, so I have no comparison really, but $10 per ride sounds ridicules to me. For $5 I can ride the train in my city literally all day long and of course it goes without saying that there is no delay or other nonsense going on ;) And it's not just a little village or something, we are talking about 3.5 million people in an area of 344 square miles.
Shit 150k where tf do i sign up, i bet thats the same pay that starting doctors get in some states
Alex Utopia and you pay for it in your income taxes
This sounds like its from someone not from New York.
TheRealFlyingMonkey lol
"I don't think $8 or $10 is even that much"...bruh. Someone is entitled, much?
I mean, if that's only one way, for one trip, for one day, then that shit adds up. And since NYC literally has no parking, people are literally reliant on public transit. There literally is no way around it. I agree. That dude is out of touch. Even by NYC standards. Shit, there are even places in NYC where you could get a gigantic slice of pizza for 1 dollar! One fucking dollar for a huge slice of pizza! You cannot beat that!
That guy is fucking nuts if he thinks people are going to accept an $8 to $10 ride one way.
Agreed. The only benefit to increased prices is maybe it'll decentralize NYC's jobs so they aren't all located in Manhattan but more evenly spread out amongst the boros but that would take decades
If it's 8$ to 10$ then it's more beneficial to jump the turnstile because the fine for it is only 60-100$
Exactly its already expensive, especially if you depend on the subway, might as well get a car but then traffic is an issue. Maybe then need to think creatively, such as reducing energy costs, increasing efficiency, by using better technology, e.t.c. I guess for many people the better alternative is to move out of NYC all together, the quality of life there is not that great. The LIRR is public, and runs as he explains it should be on this video, by distance e.t.c. and its SUPER expensive, and not worth it most of the time unless you have a top paying job, its almost half of a mortgage or rent depending on where you live, and still has issues, and raises its fares constantly. So its not a matter of public or private, but efficiency.
I can see it now. They bump the fare to $8, and yet all the other taxes and subsidies never go away.
Steven Riley 😂 so true
Tell me one subway system that is not subsidised.
João vitor Oliveira exactly
If they did that people will boycott the system
If they bump the fair to $5 each way the subway will bleed riders.
The reason why the MTA recovered from the 70's with their best periodes in 80's and 90's was the increase in public investment with things going bad after defunding.
When you can't control your costs, someone else needs to cover your losses.
Government only knows how to tax and spend, spend and tax.
Some very misleading facts here! ReasonTv needs to do their homework. The Mta did not willingly give money to ski centers, Albany has the power to take Money away from the MTA, and they did, many times over! The mta was against the 1.5 billion dollar station, but the project leader State Senator Leader Sheldon Silver wanted it. He would go on to threaten to cut and rob the MTA's budget, if the project wasn't built. Keep in mind the project was in his district, and his wife and friends work for the law firm and architecture firm which represented the project. Sheldon Silver is currently awaiting sentencing for his guilty conviction from his corruption trial...go figure! And 10 dollars for the subway, and he has the gale to say why does Albany have to bail out the MTA. Well why does Nyc taxpayers have to bail out Albany all the time, most of the taxpayer money comes form NYC, so why do we have to pay for the bulk of the funding as well. That guy needs a lesson in economics!
When I lived in Japan, which has one of the best public transportation systems in the world, fares are based on distance traveled, and while the government runs the JR lines, many of the rails and bus lines are privately owned, with the kind of cleanliness and efficiency I never see in NYC. They are able to be so because being privately owned, they run it like a business needs to run, and they must please the customer. The MTA in NYC doesn't give a damn about the riders, because its corrupt union is in the game for themselves, milking it for all its worth.
That's true. I visited Tokyo last year for a week. I had all my budgets set before the trip and was going to be strict on myself. I based my city transportation budget on NYC subway system. I learned very quickly how good New Yorkers have it!!!
Also respect
As for being clean and efficient, that's probably down to Japanese culture.
>Feliks Gailitis
Ah, Japan the best train system. *Minus the rapes and groping.*
Still alot better than over here though.
When did you live in Japan? JR East lines are now completely private since 2002, and the other 2 branches are mostly private
Edit: meant private instead of public
$8-10 subways? wow. Interesting how 5¢ in 1904 is equal to about half of what an MTA fare is today, yet they still bleed money like mad.
I find it hard to believe that the nickel fare actually covered construction costs. My guess is that construction was paid for by investors losing their capital and tax subsidies.
Rich Dodds it was profitable till inflation and then the city took it because the public was not happy about price increases and then the city increased the price anyway.
Citations? Reading between the lines of lines, the company that built the initial segments was mostly elevated railroads acquired from builders going bankrupt. The initial subway segments were few and short, so maybe a nickel fare was viable, but things went bad in less than ten years. This was during the gold standard before WW1, so inflation was too great. The system was still pretty small and almost all of the construction was after city construction financing involvement.
+Rich Dobbs so where are your citations?
My initial speculation was based on the fare in terms of gold, combined with basic knowledge of history that most for profit transportation infrastructure projects historically failed. My reading between the lines is based upon Wikipedia. By about 1911 new lines were being financed by the city, rather than by private investment.
"The MTA employees earn more than the customers they serve. Clearly, their customers should be charged a much higher fare, it's the smartest way to fix this."
"The MTA employees earn more than the customers they serve."
Yeah, I doubt that. First, very few conductors make anything more than $20-$27 an hour, which is at most $54,000 a year. Meanwhile, most people who actually LIVE in places like Manhattan make over $100,000 a year.
Reason always finds the 'highest paid people', and then proclaims that 'everyone' or even the 'average' conductor makes that much. It's a bait-and-switch tactic.
@@landonp629 most people who ride the subway live in the outer boroughs
Why does one always blame the employees they know how to make the system work but, are handcuffed by managment/ board members (which are all rich and dont ride the public system) who make policy ...
For anybody thats interested, I just looked up the MTA's statement that was released as of March 5, 2019. On page 14 of 22 -- of their total $16,725,000,000 revenue, only 12% of that is comprised of "toll revenue" (~$2,007,000,000). Of their total $16,714,000,000 expenses, 58% of that went to "payroll, pension, health & welfare, and overtime" (~$9,694,120,000)... Meaning despite having a positive net of $11,000,000 (a rather meager 0.0658% profit margin) their payroll, pension, health & welfare, and overtime expenses combined cost 483% more than what they rake in via ticket revenue....... interesting
Wow
The guy in 2:13 is trying to create zones and that’s just to expensive for the people of New York
“We shouldn’t give more money to the MTA”
hmm ok...
“So we should raise the fares to give more money to the MTA”
🤦♂️
There are currently upgrades being implemented into the NY transit system people so please be patient. I actually believe $2.75 to ride across the entire city is an excellent bargain even with occasional delays and all.
When I see a broken system that wastes a ton of money I say let other people do this job, privatise it. When government sees a broken system that wastes a ton of money it says let's subsidise it - throw more money in money shredder. And who is saying that libertarians are crazy?!
The Tokyo subway is privately owned and it could work for New York aswell.
But if the subway system is in private hands, it'll still be a monopoly right?
Privatise the highway, at market price, yeah it's not gonna be profitable because it takes up so many land and land is expensive.
It worked for Metro-North.
It's not a monopoly since you can choose any other available transportation methods such as cars, taxis, helicopters, biking or walking.
This all runs under the assumption that we have a choice. That we could choose to not take the MTA if they provide poor service.
Guess what, the MTA has a monopoly on all forms of public transportation. And unless you are suggesting that people swim across the rivers we dont have a choice. If what you guys are describing in the video happens, people be forced to pay these high fares whether they want to or not or they risk unemployment or worse. The subway system and all of our lives will only get worse not better.
Dont talk about things you can't even begin to understand
>Simon Caymer
Why?
Za Warudo this is not true, there are Van's that run to China-town form flushing and Elmhurst for 2.75, so we do have a choice! This Van's and small buses run all over the city, and our licensed and insured to operate. It's like a carpool cab system!
>D-Real-Moop 78
Licensed and insured to operate huh. What are they called?
Za Warudo The MTA is getting renovation a few years, and oh by the way I like your profile picture
@Craig F. Thompson yeah, let me walk from Canarsie to Midtown Manhattan every day, just a lil 11 mile stroll to work, just a quick 4 hour hike in the morning
The subway fares have raised over the years and this video probably explains all of those reasons. There are many solutions to the subway chaos and one of them is to build a new signaling system and put new tracks into the subway. Although this will take a lot of time and money, it will decrease the amount of delays due to malfunctions and track conditions.
I live in Tokyo prices range from 140yen - 3200yen ($31) in the city ONE WAY. Tokyo has the sweetest system cost more but its worth it!
Wow.
The Railroads cost much more for City travel.
The monthly charge for subway travel is over $130 .
Fares are now $3.00 single ride.
Distance based fares will force riders to find another way to travel, especially if traveling from the outer boros.
2.75*
Unions have never helped any rail-based transportation. Only dramatically hindered them.
Unions are for the workers. It's not the Union's job to regulate transportation.
The "most efficient system" is about as efficient as this guy's weight loss regiment.
Compared to the 70s and 80s the NYC subway is an absolute pleasure today
it's also fucking bankrupt bc of the union
Simon Caymer Apparently, you have never travelled to other countries. NYC subway system is a sh#thole system. Delays, overcrowding, service interruptions, old trains, antiquidated stops and equipment. Lived there 2008 to 2016. Lost track how many years of my life were wasted on that worthless system.
hostiliscivitas that’s because you have Low Standards
Doesn’t mean we have to set the bar low
In terms of how well kept the trains are? Possibly.
In terms of on-time performance? Absolutely not.
Pay $8 - $10 for the subway or cut overspending because of unions.
If the subway cost $5-8, I would only take it to outer boroughs. I will take Uber pool everywhere else.
Competition at work. That's the free market working as intended.
Government being irresponsible with taxpayer money??? Say it ain't so!!!
Also the state takes money from the MTA for other not related transport programs
Trains, whether subway or above ground rail, never had such awful performance than they do now. Hard to believe this is where we are in 2018, things worked better 100 years ago
really? did they work better 100 years ago? please show evidence.. and take in to account the change of population in NYC between now and 100 years ago
Kathleen Firth they worked better then because they were designed for less traffic and the workers weren't making three times the annual wage back then!
The New York subway was built and run by a private company then the city took it over.
"did they work better 100 years ago?"
What do you know about transit 100 years ago? They were doing well until the monetary system became inflationary and they weren't allowed to raise fares, mandatory labor bargaining laws brought strikes every other month because strikers could no longer be shitcanned, and the government started subsidizing their competition.
The current subway system is the nationalized "unification" of what was more than three separate organizations with overlapping (competing) territory. The first two were wholly private, profitable companies. Then the city built a third at taxpayer expense with the explicit intention of putting the other two out of business. There was also another longer distance railroad in the Bronx that built a line that eventually became part of the subway. Plus many "surface" streetcar and bus companies. The last private bus companies were forced out of business by an MTA takeover in the 2000s.
$8 bucks for a ride is freaking ridiculous, instead the MTA should charge based on the distance traveled. This is a formula that other major subway systems around the world follow too.
The best solution “Make Google Do It” 1:51
The last words in this video should be the MTA motto "we apologize for any inconvenience...thank you for your patience". I've been riding the NYC subways since the early 60s and recently went back to NYC for 2 days and heard this 4 times for different problems!!
sounds like, much like the VA, to solution is to fire the top person, then hire somebody with competence and integrity. Then instruct him to fire all the people that directly report to him...evaluate if he needs that many replacements and hire only those he needs that he can work with.
Then instruct his people to do the same.
Flush the entire system completely out and start over.
Well 8$ two times a day 5 times a week is 40 dollars Wich means that in month you might pay almost 200$ on the Subway. Lets keep the price the same raise the tolls on the bridges leading to Manhattan. NYC subway is already one of the most expensive metro systems in the world
it costs 17 dollars just for anyone to enter staten island. If you live in bk or si and want to visit someone from the other boro, or say you go to school in one and live in the other, that can amount to A LOT of money. Sorry, but there needs to be a better way.
Andre Ndoye wow I thought it was free
quan Brooklyn kid OP changed his comment, originally he said all bridges in general, but i konda agree with his new statement. Manhattan bridges are all free (which is nice) but every other bridge is 10-17 dollars. I still think there has to be a better way.
Andre Ndoye: you're forgetting the SI ferry which is free.
That guy really said 8-10 dollars for a subway ride. He must think people take the subway because they're rich, and not because they have no choice
$8 for a train ride? Absolutely ridiculous. People like this are who want a city by the rich and for the rich. Disgusting.
I love how easy it is to just go after the workers..yes that is the only problem right? No hiring more consultants that cost 300,000 to tell you something is broken or using outdated technology that breaks down often..but no let’s go after the frontline workers cause we can just get rid of them and all our problems will be solved..
The worker who is being paid three times their real value yah why would anyone want to cut down on those guys?
Barskor1 who are you to tell someone what their value is? What if I told you to cut your salary so I can get cheaper sneakers..what would be your attitude then?
Model it after Singapore's train system and it will be fine. Spoiler: NYC won't do it.
NYC metro subway is a Nasty Joke, it’s unreliable, Dirty, slow, busy, the MTA employees have attitudes, the change machine sometimes doesn’t work or take coins or sometimes it doesn’t take cash, & it’s NASTY
IBlewUponYourFace Did you even watch the whole freaking video?
if the subway cannot support itself on its own, SHUT IT DOWN!
capt rodgers No. Ancap ideas could work with robots, but with complex human societies ita not that simple.
thats how busniness goes and thats how goverment running services should too. idk what your talking about but it needs to shut down if it cannot support itself on its own ticket sales
If the Subway cant support itself, that's proof that the city is not using it enough anyway
capt rodgers Trust me NYC would be worst without the subway.
Hmm, maybe we should do the same with car dependent neighbourhoods that are build on federal money and can't sustain themselves when the time comes to repair the roads?
No, apart from congestion fees paid only at times when the transit system is overcrowded, the proper way to fund such infrastructure is through Land Value Taxes. Such infrastructure is a major source of land values.
The metro north has this terrible model already implemented and it sucks…hundreds of dollars a month to commute into work, I say f*** that.
KEEP THE EARTH CLEAN BY FIXING AND ENCOURAGING OTHERS TO TAKE THE SUBWAY INSTEAD OF DRIVING
Costa Rica don’t even have a metro in 2018 :(
Oh dont forget the MTA Amazon $3 Tax per delivery
Remember when we were polite and didn't swear? Pepridge Farm remembers...
I'm Only A Man And I Will Die Some Day when was that the 50s?
Maybe it's time to return to the values of the 50s.
“8-10$ isn’t that much”… for trash service that half the time is delayed or not working
To subway can be fixed with one word: **"Privatize"**
Get the government out of the MTA.
That joke about privatization is getting too old
One of the things that make the cities subway what it is, & has had much influence on the city is that no matter how far you go, the fare is the same.
Anyone know the song at 3:01?
Put a monorail on 2nd avenue or 1st avenue, there's no sense in building more subways, extending the 2nd av line to 125th would pay for a monorail up and down 2nd Ave. It could follow almost same route as previous IRT El.
You know how fixed the subway in New York I made it perfect I got the f*** out of that Bastion of communist hell. And I owned a thousand square foot co-op in lower Manhattan and I still say f*** New York.LOL
Arch Angel And NYC says Fuck you back
We are sorry for the inconvenience, we do appreciate your cooperation, we will be moving shortly.
It cost an average of $24 dollars a day to drive a car.
That's everything: the car, insurance, gas, maintainence etc. It's the second biggest household expense behind only housing.
Looked at that way: $8 for a train ride makes more sense. Things cost what they cost. Best to pay for them upfront.
Muhammad Ahmed - You’re just used to the subsidized cost. People will adapt to rising prices if they are phased in. You’d pay that much without blinking is the price had been slowed to rise naturally over the last century,
Things cost what they cost. You pay for the subway or way it the other eg higher prices in consumer gods like food, that include cost like the congestion tax.
There no such thing as a free lunch.
Should charge customers on how far thay need to go, because right now you can go from jamaca all the way to downtown Manhattan for just 2.75
I wish this video was longer. I'm always in support of getting the facts of current and historical political corruption out in the open. I enjoy having someone explain the true fixed and marginal costs of using a subsidized product/service. And I'm also glad when the brainstorming solutions don't immediately go to "screw poor people!"
If the video becomes a reality it will be "screw poor people". These guys don't know what they are talking about.
Craig F. Thompson
I'll check them out. Thanks
can they reduce costs by removing workers? can they drive via computer? Can repairs be done by robot?
Haven't you seen the ground breaking documentary 'I Robot?' We can't trust robots!
The JFK Airtrain (operated by the Port Authority, not MTA) is driverless.
Um robots objectify women so no.
Are you on cocaine or something. How can a fucking robot objectify woman
That would put too many people out of work. NYC has enough homeless as it is
The public transit in Oslo (Norway) gets its funding 50/50 from fares and subsidies. A single ticket valid for 1 hour on all modes of transit costs 4.5 USD. Public transit usage has been increasing continuously the last decade, and customers are satisfied.
Starting salaries for conductors are currently about $20/hr, with top pay at $29/hr after 3 years.
That is a lot of money, but not a lot when you consider a 1 bedroom apartment is $3,000 per month.
Landon Parks -- That's wages, not compensation. Compensation is everything.
living in nyc with subway delays and mta buses crowded what to do
Here the London Underground is ran by Transport for London which is government owned, yet service is still very good (despite what most other Londoners would say). You don’t need to privatise it and charge eight fucking dollars per journey to get this
Reason should do a video explaining why it works by giving out examples where such transit systems exists, notably Asia where most mass transit is privatized and runs on what they say, a distance based fares system with concessionary rates for elderly, students and the disabled. There are other places to research such as "farebox recovery ratio" and additional recenue stream such as developing.real estate in which rail operarators own. Such other ideas include gradual privatization, full privazation, public-private partnerships, and decreasing the powers of unions.
I lived in the Atlanta suburbs and I paid $10 a day in GASOLINE and spent 1.5 to 2.5 hours in traffic ONE WAY (and driving it late at night without traffic took 35 minutes). Charging $8-10 (daily) for transit if perfectly reasonable for a city like New York.
Raising prices that much will stop people from using the subway and cause revenue to drop.
Subway adds value to the land around the stations. A Land Value Tax is the best way to partially fund the subway.
We should be ashamed of our public transportation. Asia and Europe are kicking our asses. China has put down 20,000 miles of high speed rail in the last ten years. Japan has subways that kids can ride to school. The subways in Seoul are 40 years old and still clean and operating well. It’s time to kick Democrats out of the city and open up the free market for city investment hedge funds.
The money from TBTA also goes to LIRR Metro North SI Railway and other MTA agencies
When I left NY in 1969 a subway fare was .10 cents , Staten Is. Ferry was a NICKLE !
I have some idea's.
1. Train car wash on every train line. I'm sick of looking at the grime on the train windows, and it would make for some entertainment for the passengers.
2. Speaking of entertainment. Install tv screens to show advertisements. That's better than having to stare at the wall my entire ride. movie trailers would be great too. Extra revenue for the mta.
3. larger train doors so passengers can enter and leave faster
4. track guards so people do'nt get pushed onto the tracks
5. Bathrooms in the station that require the use of a metro card (omnipass) to enter and leave,. and will charge you if you don't leave within 20 minutes (to discourage the homeless from hanging out in them). This would also help pay for some of the other train services.
6. turn styles at the entrance to the platform that lock while trains are entering the station and unlock only after it leaves, to prevent overcrowding on the platforms and people running to catch a train.
7. Elevators at every station that now requires taking stares.
8. Alternative forms of income for the MTA other than fairs, like: advertising and sales. A souvenir shop at every station, a surcharge on shops wanting to do business in the subway (If they aren't already doing that).
9. A ride-hailing kiosk in the subway and connection to interactive maps of the city.
10 WIFI in the station and on the trains.
A nickel in 1904 is $1.23 in 2018 dollars, so how are you arguing that a $2.75 fare isn't keeping pace with inflation? I agree with the other commenters that the idea of a $10 fare is ridiculous, that's in the ballpark of $400 a month just to commute, nevermind going anywhere on weekends or at night. You can subsidize it for low-income folks, but someone making $100k would have trouble affording $10 fares, are you going to subsidize them too?
As a New Yorker, get outta here. You can say 10 bucks isn't that much but working class people rely on the subway to get to work. Making the subway more expensive will just decrease passengers. And it won't incentivize money to go towards fixing actual problems. You can talk all you want about fudning determining who gets the benefits, but that's not why changes do or don't get made. They do or don't get made because of political will in Albany. That's the case no matter where the initial revenue streams are.
that's why over the top. Subsidizing it from car tolls in city is good choice, because maximal throughput of cars is very limited, you want to give people more attractive choice of transportation. Far better would be to set maximal fare prices and minimal level of quality guarantees (with fines in case of not following it) and let private companies litigate how much (if any) subsidies they would require to run it.
Does that guy realize you can take a bus to Washington DC for $10 one way? lol.
It has gotten to the point in New York City where private sector employees now service the public sector and not the other way around. Civil servants of the city and state currently enjoy fringe benefits such as generous pensions, rock solid health care insurance and other privileges that are no longer afforded to employees that work for private enterprises. In most instances the public employee will earn a wage that is competitive or even better than a comparable position outside of government. Only a fool who works for a private employer making a middle class wage or lower would want to remain a resident of the city.
OMG I hated riding the NYC Subway. Its filthy and it stinks and it's a terrible way to get around.
How do you reconcile with the fact that traffic in NY is already highly congested. Incentivizing people to not take the train will only exacerbate that issue? Or will it? Seriously, I want to know your response to this.
They need to study what the subway / metro in Hong Kong is like... how it operates and makes money (real estate) and copy that model.
That joke is getting too old
How bout a Robert Moses of subways. Those 60's funds from bridges came from the Moses legacy. When politicians blather about a tradition of free bridges, tell them to take a hike, do it anyway and recycle authority bonds for more projects. Fact is no one will ever allow annother Robert Moses.
In the first place u forget that private companies also operate fright trains the last fright train left the subway in 1967 for the Taylor Law Long Island RR Metro North Sl Railway still aloud fright trains on their rail As for Transit employees salaries the high salaries is only possible with over time LIRR MetroNorth employees make a lot more money then Transit employees do
You gotta like the guy who plays "Sleepwalk" at the Grand Central stop.
5$ a one way ride? What kind of drug is this guy on?
C'mon the Seoul Subway System is ten times more efficient that NY Subway System. The Seoul Subway System serves Seoul and neighboring cities, a metropolitan area of 24 million people. It has over 20 lines, it nevers breaks down, it's never late, it runs with a frequency of 2 to 6 minutes in between trains, most station have shopping alleys and some of them literally look like malls. The fare? 1250won, or roughly 0,95 cents of a dollar. It's cheap, clean and efficient, everything that the New York Subway is not. An eight dollar fare is not necessary; what they have to do is be like the Koreans, and obviously, tone the corruption down a notch.
Subways in USSR runed like clockwork. Subways in Europe run like clockwork. If bosses in MTA were let go based on the results, may be NY subway system would've been better.
When I was growing up trains came every 20-30 mins and if you missed one you were screwed. Now every station has free wifi, precise train schedules and trains depart every 5-10 mins during rush hour and 10-20 during off peak. It's waaaay better now than it was in the 90's. It's a non issue now, idk why people are in favor of throwing so much money at a problem that's not really even there.
That guy is talking about raising fares to $8- $10 when he should be talking about decreasing worker salaries. The train isn’t even worth that much money either tbh. He’s confusing the nyc trains with the LIRR, which actually has comfortable seating and is much cleaner. The worst part is that if for some idiotic reason they decided to raise the fare that high, everyone would be assed out because what else would we use as transportation? Not everyone has a car
The Subway Is NOT A luxury It Place Where You Need Go!
Good video, thanks Reason.
Part the problem is the MTA is being forced to accumulate debt for non-MTA related state projects (Look up on TH-cam: How Did New York's Trains Get so Bad?). Another issue, there are multiple service improvements and repairs that can be accomplished at lower costs if the subway network can be shutdown (ie; the upcoming full shutdown of the L train tunnel repairs that are coming). Since the NYC depends on a 24 hour subway system, its doubtful enough necessary shutdowns will occur.
1st step vote Cuomo out, 2nd and 3rd steps are the same as the first step
But how do you get competition in the Subway? You can't really have multiple companies operating on the exact same routes.
This peace was so empty.. they didnt even mention the mechanical issues with the system.. how certain trains cannot be run on certain tracks.. how fixing and upgrading all the cars to digital signaling or whatever will cost far more then just rebuilding the subway system from scratch.. their entire "point" of this video was the subway riders need to "feel the horror" and then i guess politicians will somehow lower the salaries of the MTA workers? And the MTA will just "slash wasteful spending" because we're paying for it? Reason is a man with a hammer looking for nails to smash.. what's this a screw? Hit hit with the hammer!
The competition would be with other modes of transport, not directly with another subway.
Ordner - would you be able to specify how libertarians are technically illiterate?
jamada d Would you be able to clarify what you are getting at? Are you trying to say that another subway can't be built? I am genuinely curious as I could not narrow down on the point you are making.
jamada d the competition would come from other forms of transportation. Like buses, Uber, taxi, driving yourself, biking etc. The competition wouldn't have to come from another Subway. If the NYC subway had to act like a competitive form of transportation, and not a government monopoly like it currently acts, it would have be far more efficient and quit wasting money like it does. That should drastically improve it. One man's opinion
They built roads and airports without operating the cars, trucks and planes.
How to fix: R32s come back on the C, send the C to lefferts running skip stop with the A
Let people use tokens again
Make the R stop being such a troll
MTA workers that work in the booth have a simple job but take it for granted, they treat their customers poorly and they're extremely rude. Simply asking for help means getting screamed at, and all they do is just sit there, but not all, but many just have this behavior that they don't want to be bothered at all.
I am discouraged to ask for assistance by MTA workers that work in the booth. They're supposed to serve the public, yet they lack proper etiquette and good customer service. Typical of the public sector.
Deinterlining will definitely improve the system if the mta just listened and got some funding
"Wildly inflated salaries" indeed. You inflate worker salaries to get a shocking number by overvaluing health insurance, and helpfully leaving out how much of that pay is made up by overtime. Working 60+ hour weeks is bad for the workers' health, bad for safety, and bad for job performance, but it saves the MTA money. It enables them to habitually understaff, meaning they pay for fewer benefits, fewer pensions, and fewer trainings. But then you take the inflated overtime salaries of workers and turn it around, and act as though workers are bankrupting the system.
Let me say it one more time: Overtime saves the MTA money at the cost of worker health and safety.
The public transportation system is a public good that is necessary for the city to function. Services such as police and hospitals are not required to self fund because they're too important to people. Taking away or reducing one's means to accessing opportunity is fucking criminal. That's why I believe that high quality public transportation is one of the most important things a society could possibly invest in.
Taking dollars from drivers works well because driving itself is inherently subsidized. There is the cost of taking up valuable public land (road space), the cost of killing people in traffic, the cost of road maintenance, and the cost of the carbon it generates, most of which the private automobile owner does not really have to pay for. Private automobile ownership and usage is mostly a privilege, not a right. People have to understand the true costs behind car ownership and help the help the rest of society get access to places they need to go.
Hong Kong MTR need to take over operations for all of USA’s subway. As they did to the rest of the world.
That joke is getting too old
It’s hard to put most of the accountability on customers when more than half don’t pay the fare. I see people jump turnstiles at stations and not paying fares on buses quite often.
$8 to $10 per ride? In Singapore it costs less then $1 to ride from east to west. And if im right $1 equals to a little more then $1 in the US.
10$ a journey? Well, someone wants to have more space on board in rush hour... NO good public transport in the world runs unsubsidised (for example: the great high speed rail network in France is only getting half of its costs from the passengers).
Also, saying "Look at the employees, they earn 115k" is the single most disgusting thing to channel people's anger towards the persons who are the least responsible for the miserable situation of the NY Subway!
FIX THE DAMN 5 LINE
Make the Subway system automated, like Vancouver's Skytrain. You'll save yourself millions in labour costs every single year. And those funds can be used to better expand and maintain your rapid transit system.
For NYC, even with automated trains, you would still need the 2-person train crew to watch out for incidents on the train, the tracks, and on the platforms, especially at 14th Street-Union Square.
Vancouver Skytrain is different since they use much shorter trains.
@@TheRailLeaguer That's not how it works in Vancouver. We'll see an emoloyee every once in a while at a Skytrain station, and that's it. If someone falls onto the tracks, the system automatically shuts down.
RoboJules Okay. My mind was somewhat fuzzy about that.
But still, automating the subway will be much difficult in NYC the Vancouver because of platform geometry, specifically on older stations. 14th Street-Union Square on the 4, 5, and 6 is one example. Even with CCTV cameras, it would still be impossible to see the whole length of the platform with those curves.
@@TheRailLeaguer CCTV isn't what triggers the shutdown, laser and pressure sensors trigger the shutdown. The London Underground has the same problems with platform geometry and is even older than the NYC subway, but that hasn't stopped them from parcially automating four lines. I think the biggest issue with the New York subway is that it still runs on 1930's signaling technology, and the infrastructure in general is in need of vast upgrading. That said, I'm just happy that there will finally be a 2nd avenue subway.
RoboJules The platform geometry we have is much much worse. Again, you need to visit 14th Street-Union Square on the Lexington Avenue Line. The curves there are so sharp to the point where gap fillers are needed on the Downtown platform. On both platforms, the whole train can’t be seen. Go down to the station, and see if you personally can see the whole platform can be seen.
Literally the only lines that I can see being automated with no train crews is the 42nd Street Shuttle, and that’s it for now. Start there and see what happens.
I live in Toronto, with one of the most underfunded subways systems in the industrialized world. The TTC gets 70% of its operating budget from the fare box. Reliability and service is, and has for decades been, atrocious. Much worse than New York, in my experience.
So very much doubt that simply making the MTA 'dependent' on riders will fix the problem.
Don't even bother fighting this, it's not worth it.
Just leave.