How Lysa Ruined Littlefinger's Life By Sleeping With Him
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ค. 2023
- Did you know Littlefinger thinks Catelyn slept with him, when it was actually Lysa? This short uses evidence from A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance with Dragons and The Winds of Winter.
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Lysa is now a rapist, in addition to being a murderer.🤔
All of that is ok compared to the breast feeding
@@kingtreck7117🤣🤣
I mean not really like it and never told her to stop..... DONT TEXT ME IF YOUR GONNA GO SO OH U THINK RAPE OR DECEPTION IS OK I do not I just don't believe he felt like a rape victim he mever believe he was raped so he like it so if he don't feel like he was raped I'm gonna force him to say he was cuz he remembers alot of it we all act like he's so clueless he's not he's put 2 and 2 together
@@Daniel-ug4pu 1- he thought she was cate
2- he was probably high on milk of the poppy
@@merykhan97 Not puppy (small dog), but poppy. Poppy contains morphine and codeine, so poppy tears/opium were used as a sedative back in the days.
You forgot to mention that he was very drunk and that it was very dark
musta been very drunk and very dark, lysas a total woofer
@@Areanelf Lysa most likely looked very similar to Catelyn when they were both younger. In the books, Catelyn has not seen her sister for probably over 10 years. When she sees her again she is surprised at her physical appearance, as Lysa has gained a lot of weight. In the TV show it's implied she lost weight. The weight changes are due to the stress she was under with her many stillbirths, anger at her father, and marriage to a guy who could be her grandfather.
@@Areanelf to be fair neither sister was ever a great beauty.
@@NightQueen01 nah in the books Catelyn was considered very handsome. Just show version catelyn is meh
@@Ben-lo3op When she's not a young person in the books, so they casted accordingly for the show. She's a great cast. But sure, when you compare her to Danerys then people will say meh.
I've never read the books but did some research. Lysa became pregnant and asked her father to marry her to little finger. Instead, they gave her an abortion and Jon arryn (I think that's his name). All this caused her stress and aged her 10 extra years.
And drinking the abortion elixir must've messed up her body resulting in so many miscarriages birthing Jon Arryn's children.
Theres a reason why Robin is so withered.
@Victor77070 yes! It definitely did, I forgot that detail.
There’s actually a theory that John Arryn wasn’t killed because he discovered the secret between Jamie and Cersei. He was killed because he discovered that sweet Robin isn’t his son, but littlefingers. The only evidence to back up this claim. Is that Lysa had red hair and Jon had blond hair. While sweetrobin had brown hair like Littlefinger.
@@BlackwoodSupremacy sweetrobin isn't surviving anyways, sickly boys don't make it out of harsh winters
@Ahmed and i don't believe Littlfinger is Robin's father because in ADWD, he has a plan on replacing Robin with Harry the Heir.
That whole "cat and him being together" kinda backfired since he started the war that got her killed. Also, though he brags about sleeping with Cat, deep down Littlefinger probably knows that never happened. In the books he asks Cat for a ribbon or something, symbolizing her support in his duel with Brandon. Catelyn refuses and instead gives favor to Brandon.
I mean, you can draw two conclusions that support this. Either Little Finger believes that he needs to get more power by betraying the starks and doesn't care if Cat dies because he deep down lost feelings after all the denial (even tho he still thinks she cares about him because he thinks that she's only with Ned because she has too). Or, he still cares about her and believes she cares about him, so by being a key piece that had Ned Stark killed he thought with him out of the picture he finally can have her be with him. I mean, he kinda makes an attempt after Ned Stark dies. Both theories support that Little finger believes that Cat was with him that night.
Or he believed that Cat DID love him, but would only reveal it in the dark where no one else could possibly see. So of course, she's not going to publicly favor him in a duel vs her betrothed. Plus, the only reason he survived the fight was Cat begging Brandon to spare him. I'm sure in his mind that was proof of her love, a love that could never be seen in the light of day. I can speak from experience when I say a man in love with a girl will come up with all sorts of excuses for whatever she does.
He most definitely didn't knew and his realization that Cat never even KNEW how much he loved her, and that his plotting to have her was what ended up killing her... that broke him.
Sansa talks about him sobbing uncontrolably and getting sort of a split personality, where his "Petyr" half is fatherly and wants to help her (for her mother, in a sense), but that there are days where he is not "Petyr", but "Littlefinger", and he looks at her like she was her mother (which she resembles), calls her Cat, gets drunk and looks like he is about to grope her, though he seems to be capable of getting hold of himself, at least up to the point the novel left them off.
@@edisonlima4647I bet it was Cat’s death that spurred him to betray the Lannisters.
@@Gala-yp8nx nah, he was messing with both starks and lannistets long before cat died
Is extremely implied that he always knew it was Lysa! When he killed her, she said that you call me Cat but it was always me and he said I know! He pretended that it was Cat, maybe, he hoped it was, even for himself but he always knew deep down that it wasn’t!
Kinda doubtfull .In the books he got royally wasted after cathlyn refused to dance with him.And Lysa looked similar to Cat when they were younger.He probably relised it later.But for a while he definitely thought it was Cat
@@andymk8951agreed
@@andymk8951 "kinda doubtfull" proceeds to add to their point ??
@hannahmary6023 the commentar said that he always new.While in the books it's implied that he first thought and probably for a long time believed that it was cat
@@hannahmary6023 Learn to read?
The books do a much better job of illustrating the Catelyn-Littlefinger-Lysa situation. The books also did a better job describing how disturbed Lysa really was. Lysa on the HBO doesn't even compare to Lysa in the books.
I wonder how little finger would of reacted if he had found out it was lysa instead.
@@whitedragoness23 With disgust. He didn't like Lysa at all. He lived and breathed for Catelyn. He only used Lysa and her very obvious crush on him to advance his agenda.
@@RosieSquall didn’t the tv show make lysa more like the typical jealous villianess women? Then I was reading online she had a backstory and really really loved him. The tv show seemed to cheapen her as a person who did everything for him. I don’t get why didn’t he fall for lysa. That love is hard to find.
@@whitedragoness23 we’re speaking about the books. Not the show. And what he feels for Catelyn isn’t really love either. He’s obsessed.
People seem to not know the difference.
@@RosieSquall I was comparing the two,
Which is why i brought up the tv show
Cat never truly loved or liked little finger. She was fond of him but more just as a friend. Lysa was the one who actually loved him, and she wasn't tending him. She slipped into his bed in the middle of the night when he was drunk and still wounded, and assaulted little finger. That's why he strongly believes that it was Cat and not Lysa.
Bro I thought you said she assaulted his little finger for a bit
@@romanj5256 of course, she was after that little finger
That’s not love
No, cat loved him like a brother.
@@theshankpain2228 Lysa also loved him like a brother... just a West Virginia brother.
Reminder that Catelyn is much younger in the book and is considered one of the most beautiful women in Westeros.
That's so disrespectful to the show actor for Catelyn lol.
@@HOTD108_ 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@HOTD108_he didn’t say she’s not beautiful only not as young hahaha
@@longlongjin The comment kind of did say that though haha.
@@HOTD108_ well he's right
Littlefinger knows the truth. He’s the only one he can’t lie to.
Nah, he's a narcissist...he lies to himself most of all.
@@rikk319He's not. He's too clever to be a narcissist. Narcissists often make mistakes, and he cannot afford to make mistakes in the King's landing.
It’s hinted that Lysa got pregnant and her father made her get an abortion and when he was on his death bed he kept apologizing. Saying things like “you’ll have more” or “we had to”. But Catelyn (not anyone else) knew what he was talking about as he was heavily on the Milk of the Poppy
I'm pretty sure Cat didn't know. In the book her dying father is delirious and mentions 'Tansey.' Cat goes around asking who this Tansey is, assuming it was a servant or friend of her father's. Later on, it'd revealed 'Tansey' is the name of the drug given to Lysa to cause a miscarriage.
@@nelsonchereta816 yeah, I don’t think anyone knew except for the essential people (dad and maester). As Lysa not being a virgin could’ve stopped her marriage to Lord Arryn.
@@jimeno726 It is implied that Jon Arryn actually knew it, too.
His closest relative, "the Darling of the Vale" had just died, which meant he was without a heir that would prevent a civil war after his death, and he needed a wife proven to be fertile more than he needed a maiden.
He was also described as astoundingly chill about everything.
@@nelsonchereta816 i think in the books catelyn suspects that lysa had a miscarriage but doesn't know who the father was and thinks this was the reason between the dispute between her sister and her father. I think this is in later chapters where her father was pretty close to death.
@@edisonlima4647 well in some historical fictions I have read, they say maidens who fall out of grace (they weren't virgins for whatever reason) were married to older men to kept the daugther's image because older men were probably looking for a second o third wife and didn't care that much about virginity. But I don't know how real it is. Tho it makes sense because younger and desirable men would call off the marriage if the woman wasn't a virgin ruinnig the woman's reputation.
Far to Noble in Assumption. Little finger frankly is still that kid who picked a fight. Lost the fight. And now has spent the rest of his life trying to be the person who would never lose. He’s still that weak child thinking he’s the valiant hero
Thats not noble hes the worlds biggest creeper.
@@Saktoth my friend “far to Noble in assumption” their assumption of little fingers motives is far to Noble. He lost a fight, and he got bitter
No. He just wants to kill the heroes.
@@Saktoth he didn’t say he is noble
@@bgt2848 it’s too* btw not to
He wanted to make himself a highlord or king so he couldn't be denied what he wanted. Not to usher in any new era.
yeah, this sounds too sweet for littlefinger.
remember he kisses sansa and projects the love he had for catelyn into sansa, making it a really disgusting and creepy character
I think he kissed her the first time knowing that it's a was watching. He wanted her to be angry and irrational so he would have an excuse to kill her
After kissing her once, he then assumes a completely different role, though. He starts asking her to treat him as her father, even when they are in private, saying that they never know when a guard or a servant may overheard them.
The kissing was a slip, I think, a momento of weakness for him.
I think that he is projecting, but in a different way. He is trying to create a reality where he is Sansa's father. Which would support this video's theory
@@TheLordbaelish he asks sansa for a kiss at the end of feast as well.
also, sansa often says littlefinger looks at her in a way that makes her uncomfortable
So the Man nearly dies in some petty bout and gets ra*ed but he is the Disgusting one? Get off of your High Horse Idiots.
for all his "love", he still lied to Catelyn, manipulated her, got her killed and her family ruined. And anyone who thinks Littlefinger is "helping" Sansa....man, they're in for a surprise
I don't think Littlefinger had any goal of constructing a better society. I think he very much understood the Darwinian concept of the strong overtaking the weak and wanted to become as strong as possible and take out everyone who ever opposed or mocked him. After that, maybe financial and material gain. Not much else would matter to him, aside from Catelyn. Varys nailed it, he would burn the country if he could rule the ashes
He knew he couldn’t get strong in Brandon Stark “I will cut you in half with one hand” sense, so he did it in his “knowledge is power so I’ll play 3D chess” way The world can go upside down if he will end up at the top 😝
@@aslinotashleyhe would have succeeded had he foreseen Bran's call-out, in the show.
in a world without magic, he would still be alive
This takes place long before the duel with Brandon. While Hoster Tully is reconciling a Blackwood/Bracken dispute, the three young teens are left to drink unsupervised. Petyr tries to kiss Cat but she laughs it off. Petyr gets drunk and is carried to bed. Lysa visits. He thinks she's Cat. This is the last Sansa chapter in A Storm of Swords for anyone interested.
In the books, Littlefinger enjoys his sexual assault encounter no more than any other character who has been accosted or raped. He brutally kills Lysa the moment he can, not only because she’s so warped in the head she had married him despite his wanting to do it in front of her lords and ladies.
They all think he’s killed her (yes) after whisking her away and marrying her in secret (not what he wanted at all, Lysa gets her way again with her royal authority). He’s now lord of the vale and we don’t know much more than that atm.
Littlefinger and his scheming being at the heart of SO MUCH in Westeros, so much is traced back to him. When in reality things really began with Lysa's scheme he never knew of....That's....Wow. Lysa and Leanna both setting things in motion, they couldn't even fathom.
Lysa is one of the characters that frightens me the most ngl
Yeah, at least with Ramsay you know what he is capable of at all times.
You'd be right, she helped kill her husband just because he wanted to send her son away
Agreed, every time she was in scene everything was unbearable and tense, the chapter where she dies is AMAIZING and while I was kinda glad for Sansa's peace I still can help but feel sad for Lysa, for the kid she was not the monster she became.
Only just started reading the books, so I heard this from someone else. But Didn't Lysa go back as herself afterwards and he still slept with her? Because he used to brag that he took the maidenhead of both Tully girls.
She did, first time she slept with Littlefinger was after Catelyn's engagement to Brandon Stark was announced - he tried to kiss Catelyn after a feast, but she rejected him and laughed at him, so he got pissed blacked out drunk and had to be carried to bed. Then Lysa snuck in and had sex with him. He thought it was Catelyn then.
Then Lysa cared for him after his duel with Brandon, and they had sex again. That's why he claims he took the maidenheads of both of then, because that's what he believes.
@@DominionSorcerer and he ended up killing her anyways.
Took both's maidenhead and heads
You kind left out one of the most important facts, Little Finger was absolutely wasted when this happened.
It’s not patriarchal norms when he can’t marry her cause he’s low born. That means it’s just a class system, not patriarchy
Exactly!
In Westeros a man of a higher standing could marry a lowborn or at least have her as a mistress. However it would be considered almost impossible for a woman to merry a man of lower status as her value lies not in her achievements but in her marriage prospects.
@@hihopeyouhaveaniceday6992Yes'nt . While a man of high born status can get away with marrying a low born, it usually causes issues given marriages were used for cementing alliances with other high borns, and is something held over the man. So its still a messy and undesirable issue for both genders but its easier for the man to get away with it.
The class system was created by men, of course it is patriarchal!
Let's be clear: Littlefinger is highborn. He's a noble, not a commoner. But his house has a very low status in the Vale. An alliance between the Tullys and the Baelish would have brought nothing to the Tullys. His fiefdom is poor, he couldn't muster a strong army and he had no political influence either. And the situation would have been the same if Littlefinger had been a woman.
It was before his duel with Brandon I believe. He was shitfaced after a party and she snuck into his chambers and slept with him. He genuinely thought it was Catelyn. And still does to this day.
Little Figer chose to live in the sweetness of a lie he constructed than to live in a world where he was violated and abandoned by his own foster family. I don’t entirely blame him 😢.
His endgame is to be a weirdo going after a 13 year old girl.
An 11 year old girl
She was 11 in the books 😢
@@mimulittle4399 She was eleven at the beginning of the books. She ages throughout them.
@@mimulittle4399 She's currently 13. It's the Hound who was all over her when she was 11.
@@gooby214 I thought they confirmed that she made that up
Does age really matter in this book at this book ?
Woooooaaahhhh I don’t remember it being so explicitly said in the books that this was the case. Can’t believe this went over my head when Littlefinger retells the stories
That’s a much better motivation and goal for Littlefinger than wanting everything just because
That picture of Lysa did her so dirty 😂
dude it's CAT-eyln. CAT. they even nickname her cat.
To be fair I read it that he was just imagining it was Cat and wishing it were, since he never seems to mention is to Cat in future. If he had taken her virginity, he would surely gloat about it in future. This is similar to him later using Lysa and projecting his love of Cat onto Sansa.
He does brag about it to other people though. I believe it was mentioned that he has spread the word at the court that both Cat and Lysa had lost their virginity to him.
@@TamarMebonia possible that he was consciously lying. If he brags about Lysa, he knows he slept with her. Presumably he didn't twice, since Hoster Tully was aware of the first time and made her drink moon tea.
In which case he's probably knows he slept with Lysa instead of Cat but was drunkenly living out his fantasies on her. And is lying about Cat to make himself seem more than he is. Lying about that kind of thing is unfortunately common in insecure guys with something to prove in company bigger than they are
The incident where he thought he was sleeping with Catelyn actually took place prior to the duel. Hoster Tully was hosting one of his Bannerman, as he was trying to settle a dispute in the Riverlands. It was during that dinner that the young people were drinking and Littlefinger got really drunk. There was dancing and LF tried to kiss Catelyn, but she wouldn’t let him. The Blackfish had to carry him up to bed. That was the night that Lysa snuck into his bed and he thought it was Catelyn. This happened prior to the duel with Brandon. In fact, it was probably his belief that Catelyn had actually slept with him that had him decide to challenge Brandon. Because he already thought that he and Catelyn had something going on. I don’t think that was the time that Lysa got pregnant though. I would have to go back and look to make sure, but I think it was when she was nursing him after his injury, and he was quite aware of the fact that it was Lysa he was sleeping with then. This is the whole reason why he keeps telling everyone that he took the maiden head of both Tully sisters.
I don't think it was evet about love for him. The fact that he couldn't be with Cat only made him realise even more how little he mattered due to his low birth and he just decided to surpass all of those who looked down on him.
Yo, I read every word of every ASOIF book & I don't remember these facts being spelled out so explicitly. Alluded to, sure. But where are these details coming from in some of these videos??
But maybe I'm tripping.
Can anyone HELP??
details from ALL the books combined to tell this story
It was in Sansa's last chapter in ASOS when Littlefinger kills Lysa.
Catelyn danced six dances with Petyr that night, six, I counted. When the lords began to argue my father took them up to his audience chamber, so there was no one to stop us drinking. Edmure got drunk, young as he was . . . and Petyr tried to kiss your mother, only she pushed him away. She laughed at him. He looked so wounded I thought my heart would burst, and afterward he drank until he passed out at the table. Uncle Brynden carried him up to bed before my father could find him like that. But you remember none of it, do you?" She looked down angrily. "Do you?"
Is she drunk, or mad? "I was not born, my lady."
"You were not born. But I was, so do not presume to tell what is true. I know what is true. You kissed him!"
"He kissed me," Sansa insisted again. "I never wanted-"
"Be quiet, I haven't given you leave to speak. You enticed him, just as your mother did that night in Riverrun, with her smiles and her dancing. You think I could forget? That was the night I stole up to his bed to give him comfort. I bled, but it was the sweetest hurt. He told me he loved me then, but he called me Cat, just before he fell back to sleep.
(ASOS, Sansa VII-Chapter 80)
Something that has always bothered me:
Does anybody know what was Littlefinger's reaction (in the books or tv series) to Catelyn's death in the Red Wedding? Did he had a hand in the wedding? Did he or did he not, in a way, killed Catelyn?
Funnily enough, _we never see his reaction._
I think this was a very careful and deliberate omission on Martin's part. If we knew Littlefinger's reaction, we'd know too much about what he wants to do next.
@@gryphonbotha1880
Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it :)
Sadly, chances of we ever knowing Littlefinger's endgame is slim to none, at the rate Martin is going with Winds of Winter :/
@@donnadelrey7419 If it can happen in our lifetime, I'll be happy.
He was already in the Vale, and the only things we hear about Littlefinger from then on are from Sansa's pov. Of course he wouldn't tell her his true reaction.
Cat's death was unplanned so he would have at least been surprised. They intended to keep her hostage but she went craycray and one of the Freys decided for himself to off her.
Jorah and Littlefinger are both so embarassing the way they simp for married women that are clearly uninterested in them. Like both Ned and Khal would have humbled their asses given the chance, if they were ever caught lacking simping on their women.
Leave jorah alone atlest without him dany would be dead very early on
On multiple occasions he saved her
@@Daniel-ug4pu tbh the world would have been a better place without Danny. RIP when she had good writing :(
@@kurikuri1537 the white walkers would have won the war without Dany
His name was drogo not khal you twit
Little finger wants a world where little fingers is on top.
That's just sad
“I once convinced a woman I was Kevin Costner…and it worked; because “I” believed it!”
- Saul Goodman
I see it but I wouldn’t have believed him because he has too much personality.
Lysa was a messed up mind. Id love to know more about her time with Jon Arryn. I'll bet she was constantly against him trying her hardest to become available for Littlefinger
he is so handsome
Thats so sad. There are so many twisted stories within this universe...Is it nad thst I sorta wish it had really been Catelyn? So he had someone to believe in other than monetary gain and manipulation....?
Who cares about the motivation of Little"finger"? His actions are enough for everyone to be saddened by how swift his passing was and for everyone to wish he was slowly forced into a blacksmith's fire pit feet first or skillfully impaled in a way that misses all the major blood vessels and organs over a fire ant anthill. No motivation can ever excuse what he did.
Ohhh I didn't notice that, when baelish said that to Tyrion i thought he was joking not actually believeling it that make sense
The true evil and also the confusing aspect of littlefinger is seemingly his lack of a reaction when or if he learned that catelyn is dead. He already is grooming Sansa, making his love for catelyn incredibly hollow since he seems enraptured by looks. Im hoping against hope that Littlefinger will be led from the vale and executed by lady stoneheart. It would be pure poetic justice. Though there are parallels between the ghost of high hearts vision about the giant toppling to their death near a snowy castle and sansa eventually realizing and hatching a plan to have littlefinger killed.
Thought for years I had given this one guy my first kiss. I realized much much later that it had to have been a dream. Still feels weird to this day. Bro probably thought I was trying to pick him up in the weirdest way possible when I told him about it. I was kinda annoyed he didn't acknowledge it. 😅
Emperor barbarossa wants his plot line back.
What?
Bael-ish hit: “fuck it, I’m never going to win by playing THEIR game - as will most of the people that are born into the world” so started emulating his namesake, Bael the Bard.
Also, he’s not so obsessed with stealing Cat as he is of fulfilling the “Jenny of Oldstones” prophecy as: He had more of a hard-on for Harrenhal than Cat in the story I read; also, he lost his shit at the Hand’s Tourney when Loras presented Sansa with a rose - as if realising “stealing a red headed Whent who is daughter of Lord Stark is more *Bael-ish* than stealing a red headed Whent who is wife of Lord Stark”; and from that point onwards his *supposed* obsession with Cat shifted to Sansa.
He is playing their game, and he's pretty damn good at it. From a nobody from nowhere to master of coins, owner of several businesses and then lord of harrenhall and the Vale.
@@lizanna6390
By beggaring the realm, placing the blame for that on King Robert, embezzling the funds and getting the Iron Bank to call in their debts (so welding influence as a money lender).
He tried playing their game when he challenged Brandon Stark to a duel (for Cat’s hand) and he lost in spectacular fashion. He knows he can’t win playing that way, so schemes.
Also he’s only Lord Protector of the Vale for a year or so - Robert Aryn is the little Lord (and proving to be resilient to Baelish’s attempts to poison him).
Nominally Lord of Harrenhal, though he’s yet to take up that seat. If he fucks up in the Vale he may never do that.
@@robt4390 didn't say he was good at being master of coins but still a prestigious job from a man who came from little.
The little Lord is dying nice and slow, he needs Sansa wedded first.
@@lizanna6390
If he’s “winning” he’s done so by scheming - not playing by the rules.
And if you think Sweet Robin isn’t going to outlive Baelish, you don’t know the author. On *every major plot point* he establishes an expectation and subverts it. If Robert Aryn is weak, sickly and slowly being poisoned whilst Baelish is hatching a plot to reclaim the North for Sansa, Robert Aryn isn’t going to die and the Vale armies are never going North.
Bro took "Success is the best revenge" to the moon!!!
It was not like that... When Cat's betrothal to Brandon was announced in Riverrun, Petyr got drunk and it was then where Lysa slept with him and he confused Lysa for Catelyn. Thinking that Cat gave him her maidenhead, he challenged Brandon to the duel. Then Lysa sleeps with him during the recovery as well. Everyone in court knows of how Baelish boasts of taking both Tully sisters maidenheads...
This is not as sad a story as the music may suggest. Littlefinger would often relate his belief in that little tryst in, shall we say, locker room talk to the rest of the small council. He'd clearly gotten over any actual love he may have had for Cat long before we meet him in the books, if he's even capable of loving anyone but himself.
Who cares? He clearly still loved her. This is a sad story.
The novel implies his main motivation for the whole mess was not power for power alone, but power so he could get Harrenhal and marry a widowed Catelyn.
He tells Sansa that Cat loved him but was too honorable to cheat on Ned, and when Lysa tells him it was she who slept wirh him he blanks out for some time, paralysed (probably realizing his scheming to get Catelyn was what killed her) before saying he only ever loved Cat and killing Lysa - which was honestly a bad move that put him in danger, it was a spurr of the moment action.
He is described as going EXTREMELY depressed afterwards.
@@HarshDude126 I would disagree. Perhaps it's sad what happened to the boy. But he's not a boy in this story. Nothing is sad about what happens to the man.
Also for a man to brag about his sexual escapades with a woman, especially to people he would just as soon see dead, generally speaks to something other than love.
@@edisonlima4647 You and me interpret him entirely differently. Of course I could have missed plenty. It's a long story.
When he killed Lysa, it was a Sansa chapter, from her point of view. Whatever was going through his mind before he kills her is left entirely ambiguous. We can I interpret, of course, but no one's interpretation can be considered canon until the novels actually broach that subject.
When was he described as depressed? I definitely missed that. The man never stopped scheming and using everyone around him.
Still waiting for Catelyn's fate. 😮
I'm so stoked I found this channel
You really think someone who said: "chaos is a ladder" is a secret hero.
I really like that idea, it makes Petyr more morally grey, as he's not just being manipulative cuz he's power hungry. He does it to tear down the societal norms so he can be close with Cat. He's still a gross perv but his motivations are oddly sweet, and his end goal is somewhat moral. Still sounds way too nice for Baelish tho.
Not so much change society as change his height inside of it.
His goals were:
1) get Cat widowed, because, as he tells Sansa before Lysa's confession, he believed Cat loved HIM, but was too honorable and loyal a woman to ever cheat on a husband.
2) get Harrenhal, so he would be high enough a lord to marry a Tully.
He failed at 1, because Cat died in the process and at 2 because Tywin solves the war himself through the Red Wedding, so has no incentive to keep Baelish as lord of coveted Harrenhal.
I wouldnt say littlefinger is gray morally. He is immoral to the highest degree. He willingly plots and causes the war of the five kings, and creepily lusts after cats daughter as a sort of second chance. He doesnt care who he topples as long as no one suspects and he climbs to the very top. He is driven forward by a warped infatuation with a lost love and pure ambition without humanity.
He was too obsessed with Catelyn, who obviously had grown to love her family, and transferred that obsession to her daughter. That's not sweet. And his actions brought devastion to Westeros, so his end goal cannot be very moral either.
Not in the sligthes. He is the colsest thing to a pure villain the story has (...wait. Geoffrey, Ramsay,... okey; he is ONE of the few pure villains) in that he BURNS the world just for he's own sake. His love isn't as pure either. Whe Catherine dies, he does not feel so mutch remorse... cause he has Cat0.2 in the form of Sansa. He wasn't triying to change the world for a reallity in witch his love could have been possible... he want's to run the ashes with the girl he loves (or someone similar) having burnt all the ones who stood in his way in the first place. You cannot get worse than that.
This is NOT confirmed in the book. Lysa tells the story about Baelish saying her name in bed, but that could just be the typical trope of someone in a romantic situation saying someone else's name that shows up all the time in storytelling.
Littlefinger loved Cat regardless of what happened. He loved her BEFORE this tourney, which is confirmed and Lysa does say.
Your videos are really good.
Brandon was given her maidenhead. Ned was saddled with all the responsibility!
Wrong he got drunk on the night of the betrothal of Cat and Brandonand slept with Lysa thinking it wa her. After the duel he and Caitlyn never spoke till she went to Kings Landing. Come on now getypur stuff right also The Black Fish carried him to his room cus he was so drunk.
Not how it happened. Did you read the books?
There was a feast during which Littlefinger danced with Cat a not insignificant amount of times.
It's important to remember that Cat is like 18 and Petyr 15. Peter thinks this is important and means she loves him back. Cat seems legitimately oblivious to this, even in the future.
He proceeded to get ridiculously drunk and had to be carried to bed. Later, Lysa goes to pretty much assault Petyr and when he calls her Cat she doesn't correct him. She does it from some misplaced sense of love a jealousy of her sister. She thinks Cat is teasing him, leading him on and intentionally turning him into a joke.
“Gets Cat killed halfway through his plan” great job👍🏼
So actually, the plot really does revolve around Little Finger and his desires.
I really don’t think that’s he’s end game at all
Part of it yes the other was he thought he would sit the Iron Throne
Patriarchal norms? Cat married Ned. It was just common morality.
I think it was stated in the books that Littlefinger knew that it was Lysa who hooked up with him but he just decided to believe that it was Cat, even though he knows its not true
He was pretty charismatic despite his sneaky ways 😁
Its not the patriarchy but the class system. Also I've always questioned how much he really loved her since he qas able to send her husband to his deathbed which could have put both her daughters in grave danger.
Also, by doing that, he started the war that ended up killing her.
He failed to predict she would die and was actually hoping to marry her at the first chance (specially after getting Harrenhal), because he believed Cat secretly loved him but that she was way too honorable to ever cheat on a husband, love or no love, so only Ned being sent to the Wall would make her available.
He was probably counting that she would run straight for him after Ned was sent to the wall, rather than towards Renly Baratheon, at which point she slipped away from anyone else's radar until ahe died.
If Littlefinger wasn't such an incel he could have been happy with someone else, Smh
Being in love doesn’t make someone an incel.
His non-reciprocated 'love' of Cat defines his entire character, including wanting to control the thing closest to Cat after her death, her 14yo daughter. But go off, king
@@zaepham357 that's not what an incel is though 😂
All of this forcible interjection of modern terminology is cringe.
He ain't settling for in his words "a middling Gulltown merchant's daughter".
Would be interesting if Baelish’s end game is meeting lady stoneheart, believing all this info, only for Cat to reveal she knew who caused the death of her husband, and slits his throat
They don't even look alike to be sisters littefinger must've been doped up on milk of the puppy
patriarchal? you mean feudalist and monarchial. FFS
If Littlefinger cared to Caitlyn very much, why the fuck he gave Sansa to the Boltons in Season 5, especially how Roose betrayed The Starks in Red Wedding? I believe book Littlefinger is better than that.
Well on the books he doesn’t give Sansa to the Boltons, which honestly doesn’t make a ton of sense. Littlefinger desired Sansa for himself, not out of some Snapelike devotion to her mother. Why give her away when he can fake Jeyne Poole being Arya?
The show made enormous fuck ups with respect to almost all of the characters. Barriston selmy, Doran + Elaria, Euron, Tyrion, the tyrells, Kevan Lannister, Robb, Daenerys, Young Griff, Jon, Jamie, Bran and so many others. Once you read the books you'll see the dumb decisions taken by the showrunners and how the show could've been one of the best piece of media had they followed the book
@@marwanali4878 to be fair, the first three books are great and the next two are increasingly train wrecks
In the novel, he sends a look alike and keeps Sansa.
After Lysa tells him the truth he snaps, kills her, cries a lot (for Cat's death, presumably) and begins to plot how to get Sansa the Vale and/or the North.
This definitely makes Little Finger sound like a more noble character then he is. He’s one of the most villainous and self-serving characters in the entire series. He’s also one of the cooler characters because most of it is behind the scenes unlike some other characters.
Poor littlefinger
Is that Catelyn from the show?! Lmao that looks nothing like she's described in the book 😂
Pretending you haven’t watched the show
@@obi-wankenobi9187 fortunately I don't have to pretend Master Kenobi. The mental image I have of Catelyn is not that of 60 year old grandma
Everyone in the show is older to a different degree. Cat and Ned are in middle forties, Jaime and Cersei seem to be 5 years older. They aged up Jon, Robb, Bran, Daenerys and Rickon by 3 years (unfortunately actors are even older, so Robb looks more 25 than 17.. and Jon and Dany look their part until season 4). Sansa, Arya and Joffrey are 2 years older.
But yeah, she looks nothing like book description, and is even a little different in character (more modern concerned mother, than medieval lady) but actress did a brilliant work. One of the best portrayals.
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where his emotions when Frey and Joffrey killed cathelyne
Plotting to kill Joffrey
@@yodathe900yearolddyslectic8 actually true
he probably took the criston cole route, where he might of loved her once than resented her, because he definitely new about the red wedding
@Cristian Bejarano Criston Cole never loved Rhaenyra. Alot of people don't realize what would happen to him if the truth came out that he had sex with her. He'd be gelded and sent to the wall at the very minimum. He wanted to marry Rhaenyra because that would restore his broken oath and he wouldn't face any punishment. Rhaenrya knew all of this and had sex with him anyway.
Soon he will have a new one. Far younger and more beautiful ;). Sansa. Its obvious, he is grooming her right now.
Wow... this puts things into a whole new perspective... crazy how one "lie" can shift someone's goals...
Iirc, that wasn’t after his duel, it was after some dinner/dance where he’d been rejected
he really is the male feminist ally
That’s such a sad story, makes his character a bit tragic.
You kinda forgot all about Araya, Bran, Gendry and the brotherhood without banners. Littlefinger would have eacaped capture and sided with Dany. The red wedding or some other form of it would have happend regardless if Tywin said so or not.
Regardless of the additional details to the story, that’s really fucking sad… 😢
Thats so fascinating actually and adds a lot to his character and choices
I'm new to the franchise. Just started season 2, but this is somehow both sad and hysterical.
How tf does George keep up with all these characters and lores n everything just intertwines it’s absolutely insane!!
that milk of the poppy be strong
“Titles do seem to breed titles.”- Little Finger
This changes him from a sadistic psychopath to a romantic sadistic psychopath. I like how it turns him into a tragic character.
I wishhhhh he had found out before he died. It would’ve killed him inside to know she never actually cared at all, and that he never once meant anything!
Not sure this fits for the show because at some point Lysa talks to him about “that night we shared together” or something like that
I thought LF got drunk during Cat and Brandon's engagement celebration. Lysa slipped into his bed and he mistook her for Cat, which is WHY he fought Brandon, because he thought Cat had secretly chose him in the night.
This actually makes me feel some sympathy for Littlefinger.
This was always very clear to me, in the books its mentioned a lot times that Littlefinger took Catelyns virginity. But I always thought it to be not true, this theory has so much more credibility
Lysa actually got pregnant from that night and Riverun's maester messed up the moon tea recipe and permanently damaged her reproductive system and that's why she lost so many babies and Robin is so sickly
The War of the Five Kings would have been a great time for him to strike if this whole thing was just to pursue her. Littlefinger has the resources he could have leaked information to win her over. Just by warning her about the red wedding, which there was enough moving parts there that I don’t believe Littlefinger wouldn’t of found out about it, he probably could of got a marriage out of it. I don’t think it was Cat, but the position he was after from the start. Had he successfully got her, Edmure would have had an accident, leaving Cat and her husband free to claim Riverrun. I think the fixation came from little kid hormones mixing his quest for power with love.
Instead, LF got Catelyn killed. I think his end game wasn’t to end up with Cat, but to end up on the Iron Throne…or at least be more powerful than the person who sits on it.
Imagine how pissed he was when he found out she died.
Littlefinger reminds me sir crispy... As far as handling rejection ia concerend 😂😂😂
If Catelyn was that much important to him, he had no purpose continuing his schemes post season 3
Thank you for saying her name correctly....Kate-lyn not Cat-lyn as they call her in the book. They also changed the fact that Kate-lyn pressured Ned to take the position of king's hand for Robert. I couldn't stand her!
I said it was her fault Robb got marked. Her decisions from the start led up to the red wedding.
The milk of the poppy is very strong.
Lysa just went straight for the little finger