Great video. I love hearing the the knowledge learned by "someone without a lot of experience", because that is what most of us are! You are right, this topic is talked about a lot. I have watched many of the videos out there, yours has surely added to the knowledge base. Thanks for sharing.
I can't begin to tell you how much I have learned from your experience and the timing of this video could not be better. I am doing my build of an RV10 emp kit a little different than most. I have taken all the sections to the point of priming so I am getting ready to prime this whole kit at once. I am setting up my 8' x8' x 8' fold-up booth in my garage and did not want to be setting up and taking down for each section. I am using the Akzo primer as well (no kidding about the cost). I have a 4 stage turbine spray unit with a second turbine supplying fresh air to my mask. I am using a 3M HVLP spray gun with the 3M PPS system (love it for the reasons you mention). For cleanup, I use a second liner with solvent and attach it after spraying to spray thru the gun to clear before taking apart for final cleaning. I have also found that placing a piece of painters tape over the end of the spray nozzle between spays while moving parts etc keeps other finishes that dry fast from drying and clogging the tip FWIW. I was planning to scuff the parts dry with maroon scothbrite and wipe clean with acetone but the PreKote might be a better option. Can you give me some idea of the quantity of PreKote I might need to do this emp kit? Can't thank you enough for sharing all this great info. Looking forward to following your progress - you are doing a fantastic job and a great service to the building community!
First off, thank you for such great feedback! And for adding such great tips down here in the comments! Sounds like you have a good system. An 8’x8’ space is enviable. I wish I had more room to prime! I bought a regular spray bottle (liter?) of PreKote plus a gallon to refill. I didn’t need to refill until almost complete with my wings. I’d say, if just trying it out, go for the spray bottle and see. Note the other comment here. PreKote doesn’t advise using a solvent after, instead just wiping with primer. Truth be told-I still use isopropyl. 😉
@@RyanFlysPDX Thanks for the info Ryan. I am in Canada and Aircraft Spruce doesn't have any so I purchased from SkyGeek. Shipping is a killer so I bought same as you. Should be enough to finish the plane based on your experience. I'm modifying my booth (open faced) to add a bigger exhaust fan and 40" x 40" x 4" paint arrestor filters to hopefully catch the over spray as well as provide enough air movement thru the booth to keep the overspray from exiting the inlet (100 ft/min thru the booth is the target based on what I have read). I should finish priming by end of Aug and I will be happy to report back on my experience. Thanks again for your help.
Hey Ryan, thanks for the video! I'm starting on an RV-10 and interested which guns you used. Your spray gun links seem to have expired. Could you please update your video description with the gun model info, the tip orifice size, and also reply so I get a notification? Keep up the great work!
I’ll look into the link, but it’s simply the “purple gun” from harbor freight. www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-hvlp-gravity-feed-air-spray-gun-with-regulator-62381.html I’m sure you could eliminate some of the problems I’ve had by upgrading, but I always thought a more expensive gun would be wasted on me…
Interesting review about primer and how the settings are sensitive. I feel you when you say it's expensive. Would smaller parts be OK to prime with something like a spray paint from Rust Oleum ("professional primer" or "etching primer")? I don't know much the down sides of Rust Oleum primers, other than for big parts, a can-paint definitely doesn't look good. But for small parts, that will never be visible anyway, maybe? If it's as good as other primers that is, wouldn't it save a few bucks? Thanks for explaining some good tricks!
Yes! Many people, with great success, prime their entire planes with etching primer from a spray can. Granted it takes cases of paint, but it is possible. There’s various types of self-etching aluminum primer available at auto parts stores that work great for this.
Hi Ryan - Just wondering if I need to mask over the holes of the skins on the outside to keep primer from getting on the outside surface blowing thru the holes? That would effectively mask the outside covering the blue plastic removed to dimple. Thanks
Good question. Somewhere on Vans Airforce is a very similar question from me about a year ago! Typically, primer isn’t going to blow through those holes. There are some pieces that due to curvature or other features will have an obvious risk of overspray. I typically mask these. (Overlapping panels would be one example.) You’ll get a little overspray on your exterior. It bugs me a little bit, but the surface will get prepped prior to paint. If you’re polishing your plan, ignore everything I’ve just said and look for an expert to help!
Hi Ryan, I think I need to build a spray booth for my build, so what would be the minimum length..so I can fit those long skins in? Thank you for all the time doing the videos..super useful.
I happen to know this off the top of my head, now that I’ve gone through this… in fact I had a whole section on booth sizes that got cut because of time. My booth is 6’ 6” x 3” 2”. I would make a booth with interior space of 8’ x 4’ at a minimum. That would fit the longest skins, though some spars will still give you trouble. If you wanted the California King of booths, a 12’ x 4’ would be pretty sweet, but a downdraft table that size would require a lot of exhaust fans… Thanks for the kind words and support!
Hi Ryan, What are the specs of your air compressor? I have read that HVLP guns require a lot of cfms. Watching your videos has been an inspiration, I have a RV-9a tail kit in the mail and think I'm going to go with the same primer as you.
So happy to hear I can inspire!! The compressor is a Kobalt 26 gal., 150 PSI, 1.8 HP, "Quiet Tech" compressor. I haven't had a problem running out of air. But, well, you watched the episode, I'm sure you'll see I'm not a professional painter and shouldn't be giving out too much advice on equipment. :) For me it's worked great and kept up well.
Awesome, thanks for the quick reply! I was very close to getting that model but settled on something a little smaller. Guess I'll find out if it can keep up! I'm probably going to end up making a build channel too. It seems like a very valuable way to document progress and decisions made. It's fun to watch your first few videos and compare. EAA workbenches and practice kits and all that.
@trainboy1000 I find the video creation very rewarding. It’s become a second hobby, but definitely takes some time away from the build. Sometimes that’s a good thing though!
Hi Ryan - Just got my PreKote and finishing up the masking before prep. I see from the PreKote instructions, it says you need to paint within 24 hours of doing the PreKote treatment. It looks from their examples that they are treating the exterior surface of an assembled aircraft - not parts. I was hoping to prep parts and place them in a closed tote for a few days - then paint. Just wondering if you have left parts for days before spraying and if so, was there any problems? Thanks for the help.
I have not let parts rest for more than a day, but that is to be expected when priming small batches for immediate assembly. I’d hate to speculate on a chemical process I’m not overly familiar with, but it seems like some additional time wouldn’t hurt, as long there isn’t contamination between cleaning and spraying. You might reach out to them to see what their reasoning is.
I bought midi size PPS system which is 13.5 oz instead of 22 oz. Would you recommend getting the bigger ones like you have or keep the 13.5 oz because we prime small batches at a time?
Hmm. That’s a good question. My average batch of primer is about 8-10 ounces. Smallest is around 5 ounces. Largest, for huge batches (wing ribs, large skins) was 16-ish I think. And I’ve been wasting a lot of primer with poor setup at times. 13.5 ounces might get 90% of priming batches without mixing two cups. The smaller cup would be a benefit in my small booth. I think there’s less waste to consider too. (Minutely, but still.) Yeah, I think those lighter cups might be a benefit in most scenarios.
Full face, 3M bayonet style cartridges with P100 or better cartridges. I think I’m using 3M 60923. But please don’t take my word for it. Make sure whatever cartridge you buy is compatible with the primer of your choice. Call up whoever you order your primer from and get a recommendation.
To be clear, you're talking about the PreKote and Scotch-Brite process? I talked about that in this episode, and in fact did it in that order for the skins. If you PreKote prior to dimpling, you save your self some work (and Scotch-Brite). However, inevitably you contaminate the skins again by handling them so much during dimpling--even with gloves you're maneuvering them around the shop so much you can't go straight to primer. So you have to go back with the isopropyl after dimpling, which takes a bit more time than doing it at the same time as PreKote. So, for smaller, simpler parts, I will dimple first and then do all my cleaning steps so it is straight to primer after that.
@@RyanFlysPDX My bad Ryan i rewatched and I missed that etching spray you use “Pre Coat” as opposed to Alodine for etching. Thanks for that I’ll check Pre Coat out, never heard of it sounds good in many ways.
No worries! Check the description for a link. It is a simpler process than Alodine or similar. It may be a little less thorough as a result, not sure. But I like that I'm not having to dispose of chemicals. The Akzo Nobel primer alone is enough toxic stuff for me...
@@RyanFlysPDX Thanks for the product name too. Easier than Alodine process for sure and agree not all parts need Priming, we’re only priming mating surfaces as your doing in this post. Thanks for follow up too Ryan, cheers M8.
Hey Ryan, I was wondering if you have had a technical adviser come look at your progress? I don’t have any doubts about your work. In fact, I think it has been extraordinary. But I’ve always heard you should have a TA review your work as you move through the project.
I’m the past, the FAA would inspect airframes before they are closed up. Now the FAA is mainly concerned with the final inspection, so technical advisors will inspect prior to a DAR to eliminate surprises, and course correct if needed. I’ll have an advisor out soon, but I’d like the center fuse section slightly more developed so I can discuss some question I have on upcoming steps. With the wings still open, this will allow for an in-depth look at much of my work, and certainly some of the most critical areas. I’ll be sure to detail this process in an upcoming episode.
Hi Ryan - Just finished priming the empennage of my RV10 and as promised, I have put together a write-up of my experience. Its 6 pages in Word so I didn't want to just paste it into a comment without checking with you first. I could include a few pictures of my work area as well if you like. Let me know how I can best share this with you. Thanks
Feel free to post here. I’m also happy to add it to to my website post that features this video if you head over there and shoot me an email with the notes. What a fantastic contribution!
I got an error when I tried to post the text here - likely too large but I did send it as a message on your website. Hope it helps someone.@@RyanFlysPDX
Hi Ryan, don't mean to throw a spanner in the works and you've probably seen these videos allready but the US military used prekote for some time, probably still do, and in a number of the instructional videos it mentioned not to use any solvents after using prekote. Only to wash off with water and let dry. th-cam.com/video/jO_mbv9Uox8/w-d-xo.html Some people don't bother with the prekote and go straight to akzo, which is incredibly tough as you know. So in your case, I'm sure it will still last more than a lifetime. Awesome progress!
I hadn’t seen this video, believe it or not. I have seen some others on the PreKote/Akzo combo (done by individuals) that suggested the wipe. I feel like isopropyl is the better option than acetone/MEK I’ve seen used or suggested, but interesting that they recommend nothing at all. My iso wipes usually wind up taking a lot of material with them. Hmm. I’ll have to do some tests. Could save time, if I can wrap my head around the process. Thank you for sharing! This is great. I’ll put a link in the description.
@@RyanFlysPDX Here's an F16 and B1 being done: th-cam.com/video/Kx3H8I0ll9Q/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/t3vd2f5psj4/w-d-xo.html And here's another chap using water rather than solvents th-cam.com/video/22KudZX0uZM/w-d-xo.html
Great video. I love hearing the the knowledge learned by "someone without a lot of experience", because that is what most of us are! You are right, this topic is talked about a lot. I have watched many of the videos out there, yours has surely added to the knowledge base. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching! I’m glad to hear I might have added something to the conversation!
I can't begin to tell you how much I have learned from your experience and the timing of this video could not be better. I am doing my build of an RV10 emp kit a little different than most. I have taken all the sections to the point of priming so I am getting ready to prime this whole kit at once. I am setting up my 8' x8' x 8' fold-up booth in my garage and did not want to be setting up and taking down for each section. I am using the Akzo primer as well (no kidding about the cost). I have a 4 stage turbine spray unit with a second turbine supplying fresh air to my mask. I am using a 3M HVLP spray gun with the 3M PPS system (love it for the reasons you mention). For cleanup, I use a second liner with solvent and attach it after spraying to spray thru the gun to clear before taking apart for final cleaning. I have also found that placing a piece of painters tape over the end of the spray nozzle between spays while moving parts etc keeps other finishes that dry fast from drying and clogging the tip FWIW. I was planning to scuff the parts dry with maroon scothbrite and wipe clean with acetone but the PreKote might be a better option. Can you give me some idea of the quantity of PreKote I might need to do this emp kit? Can't thank you enough for sharing all this great info. Looking forward to following your progress - you are doing a fantastic job and a great service to the building community!
First off, thank you for such great feedback! And for adding such great tips down here in the comments!
Sounds like you have a good system. An 8’x8’ space is enviable. I wish I had more room to prime!
I bought a regular spray bottle (liter?) of PreKote plus a gallon to refill. I didn’t need to refill until almost complete with my wings. I’d say, if just trying it out, go for the spray bottle and see.
Note the other comment here. PreKote doesn’t advise using a solvent after, instead just wiping with primer.
Truth be told-I still use isopropyl. 😉
@@RyanFlysPDX Thanks for the info Ryan. I am in Canada and Aircraft Spruce doesn't have any so I purchased from SkyGeek. Shipping is a killer so I bought same as you. Should be enough to finish the plane based on your experience. I'm modifying my booth (open faced) to add a bigger exhaust fan and 40" x 40" x 4" paint arrestor filters to hopefully catch the over spray as well as provide enough air movement thru the booth to keep the overspray from exiting the inlet (100 ft/min thru the booth is the target based on what I have read). I should finish priming by end of Aug and I will be happy to report back on my experience. Thanks again for your help.
Outstanding video! It's super helpful. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much!
doing great man! Im excited for all your future videos!!!!
Thanks man! I have some fun stuff coming up that I’m excited for folks to see!
Appreciate your attention to detail.
Thank you!
Hey Ryan, thanks for the video! I'm starting on an RV-10 and interested which guns you used. Your spray gun links seem to have expired. Could you please update your video description with the gun model info, the tip orifice size, and also reply so I get a notification? Keep up the great work!
I’ll look into the link, but it’s simply the “purple gun” from harbor freight.
www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-hvlp-gravity-feed-air-spray-gun-with-regulator-62381.html
I’m sure you could eliminate some of the problems I’ve had by upgrading, but I always thought a more expensive gun would be wasted on me…
Interesting review about primer and how the settings are sensitive. I feel you when you say it's expensive. Would smaller parts be OK to prime with something like a spray paint from Rust Oleum ("professional primer" or "etching primer")? I don't know much the down sides of Rust Oleum primers, other than for big parts, a can-paint definitely doesn't look good. But for small parts, that will never be visible anyway, maybe? If it's as good as other primers that is, wouldn't it save a few bucks? Thanks for explaining some good tricks!
Yes! Many people, with great success, prime their entire planes with etching primer from a spray can. Granted it takes cases of paint, but it is possible.
There’s various types of self-etching aluminum primer available at auto parts stores that work great for this.
Great video thank you.
Your welcome! Thank you for the feedback!!
Hi Ryan - Just wondering if I need to mask over the holes of the skins on the outside to keep primer from getting on the outside surface blowing thru the holes? That would effectively mask the outside covering the blue plastic removed to dimple. Thanks
Good question. Somewhere on Vans Airforce is a very similar question from me about a year ago!
Typically, primer isn’t going to blow through those holes. There are some pieces that due to curvature or other features will have an obvious risk of overspray. I typically mask these. (Overlapping panels would be one example.)
You’ll get a little overspray on your exterior. It bugs me a little bit, but the surface will get prepped prior to paint.
If you’re polishing your plan, ignore everything I’ve just said and look for an expert to help!
The best thumbnail 😂
I had fun with that one!
Hi Ryan, I think I need to build a spray booth for my build, so what would be the minimum length..so I can fit those long skins in? Thank you for all the time doing the videos..super useful.
I happen to know this off the top of my head, now that I’ve gone through this… in fact I had a whole section on booth sizes that got cut because of time.
My booth is 6’ 6” x 3” 2”. I would make a booth with interior space of 8’ x 4’ at a minimum. That would fit the longest skins, though some spars will still give you trouble.
If you wanted the California King of booths, a 12’ x 4’ would be pretty sweet, but a downdraft table that size would require a lot of exhaust fans…
Thanks for the kind words and support!
@@RyanFlysPDX Thanks Ryan, appreciate the reply🙂
Hi Ryan,
What are the specs of your air compressor? I have read that HVLP guns require a lot of cfms.
Watching your videos has been an inspiration, I have a RV-9a tail kit in the mail and think I'm going to go with the same primer as you.
So happy to hear I can inspire!!
The compressor is a Kobalt 26 gal., 150 PSI, 1.8 HP, "Quiet Tech" compressor. I haven't had a problem running out of air. But, well, you watched the episode, I'm sure you'll see I'm not a professional painter and shouldn't be giving out too much advice on equipment. :)
For me it's worked great and kept up well.
Awesome, thanks for the quick reply! I was very close to getting that model but settled on something a little smaller. Guess I'll find out if it can keep up!
I'm probably going to end up making a build channel too. It seems like a very valuable way to document progress and decisions made. It's fun to watch your first few videos and compare. EAA workbenches and practice kits and all that.
@trainboy1000 I find the video creation very rewarding. It’s become a second hobby, but definitely takes some time away from the build. Sometimes that’s a good thing though!
Hi Ryan - Just got my PreKote and finishing up the masking before prep. I see from the PreKote instructions, it says you need to paint within 24 hours of doing the PreKote treatment. It looks from their examples that they are treating the exterior surface of an assembled aircraft - not parts. I was hoping to prep parts and place them in a closed tote for a few days - then paint. Just wondering if you have left parts for days before spraying and if so, was there any problems? Thanks for the help.
I have not let parts rest for more than a day, but that is to be expected when priming small batches for immediate assembly.
I’d hate to speculate on a chemical process I’m not overly familiar with, but it seems like some additional time wouldn’t hurt, as long there isn’t contamination between cleaning and spraying.
You might reach out to them to see what their reasoning is.
I bought midi size PPS system which is 13.5 oz instead of 22 oz. Would you recommend getting the bigger ones like you have or keep the 13.5 oz because we prime small batches at a time?
Hmm. That’s a good question. My average batch of primer is about 8-10 ounces. Smallest is around 5 ounces. Largest, for huge batches (wing ribs, large skins) was 16-ish I think. And I’ve been wasting a lot of primer with poor setup at times.
13.5 ounces might get 90% of priming batches without mixing two cups. The smaller cup would be a benefit in my small booth. I think there’s less waste to consider too. (Minutely, but still.)
Yeah, I think those lighter cups might be a benefit in most scenarios.
Great video, thanks - doing lots of research into primer at the moment so this couldn't have come at a better time! Any recommendations on respirator?
Full face, 3M bayonet style cartridges with P100 or better cartridges. I think I’m using 3M 60923.
But please don’t take my word for it. Make sure whatever cartridge you buy is compatible with the primer of your choice. Call up whoever you order your primer from and get a recommendation.
Hi Ryan the build is looking great.
Just a question, wouldn’t it be less work to remove the Alclad before dimpling.
To be clear, you're talking about the PreKote and Scotch-Brite process? I talked about that in this episode, and in fact did it in that order for the skins. If you PreKote prior to dimpling, you save your self some work (and Scotch-Brite).
However, inevitably you contaminate the skins again by handling them so much during dimpling--even with gloves you're maneuvering them around the shop so much you can't go straight to primer. So you have to go back with the isopropyl after dimpling, which takes a bit more time than doing it at the same time as PreKote.
So, for smaller, simpler parts, I will dimple first and then do all my cleaning steps so it is straight to primer after that.
@@RyanFlysPDX My bad Ryan i rewatched and I missed that etching spray you use “Pre Coat” as opposed to Alodine for etching. Thanks for that I’ll check Pre Coat out, never heard of it sounds good in many ways.
No worries! Check the description for a link.
It is a simpler process than Alodine or similar. It may be a little less thorough as a result, not sure. But I like that I'm not having to dispose of chemicals. The Akzo Nobel primer alone is enough toxic stuff for me...
@@RyanFlysPDX Thanks for the product name too.
Easier than Alodine process for sure and agree not all parts need Priming, we’re only priming mating surfaces as your doing in this post.
Thanks for follow up too Ryan, cheers M8.
Hey Ryan, I was wondering if you have had a technical adviser come look at your progress? I don’t have any doubts about your work. In fact, I think it has been extraordinary. But I’ve always heard you should have a TA review your work as you move through the project.
I’m the past, the FAA would inspect airframes before they are closed up. Now the FAA is mainly concerned with the final inspection, so technical advisors will inspect prior to a DAR to eliminate surprises, and course correct if needed.
I’ll have an advisor out soon, but I’d like the center fuse section slightly more developed so I can discuss some question I have on upcoming steps.
With the wings still open, this will allow for an in-depth look at much of my work, and certainly some of the most critical areas.
I’ll be sure to detail this process in an upcoming episode.
Makes sense. Thanks again for sharing your work!
Absolutely! Thanks for the question!
Hi Ryan - Just finished priming the empennage of my RV10 and as promised, I have put together a write-up of my experience. Its 6 pages in Word so I didn't want to just paste it into a comment without checking with you first. I could include a few pictures of my work area as well if you like. Let me know how I can best share this with you. Thanks
Feel free to post here. I’m also happy to add it to to my website post that features this video if you head over there and shoot me an email with the notes.
What a fantastic contribution!
I got an error when I tried to post the text here - likely too large but I did send it as a message on your website. Hope it helps someone.@@RyanFlysPDX
Hi Ryan, don't mean to throw a spanner in the works and you've probably seen these videos allready but the US military used prekote for some time, probably still do, and in a number of the instructional videos it mentioned not to use any solvents after using prekote. Only to wash off with water and let dry.
th-cam.com/video/jO_mbv9Uox8/w-d-xo.html
Some people don't bother with the prekote and go straight to akzo, which is incredibly tough as you know.
So in your case, I'm sure it will still last more than a lifetime.
Awesome progress!
I hadn’t seen this video, believe it or not. I have seen some others on the PreKote/Akzo combo (done by individuals) that suggested the wipe.
I feel like isopropyl is the better option than acetone/MEK I’ve seen used or suggested, but interesting that they recommend nothing at all.
My iso wipes usually wind up taking a lot of material with them. Hmm. I’ll have to do some tests. Could save time, if I can wrap my head around the process.
Thank you for sharing! This is great. I’ll put a link in the description.
@@RyanFlysPDX
Here's an F16 and B1 being done:
th-cam.com/video/Kx3H8I0ll9Q/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/t3vd2f5psj4/w-d-xo.html
And here's another chap using water rather than solvents
th-cam.com/video/22KudZX0uZM/w-d-xo.html
This is great stuff.
I bet the bill for the primer on the B1 would make one shutter…