Def the most underrated TH-cam Audio Channel. Bro, you’re the only guy who gets SPL vs SQL…surprising how few people get this point. As for the subs, I’m all about the Rel t9x’s because of my larger listening space
Nice dude, I wish I had a bigger space but where I live if you want a big living room you have to pony up around $1.5 million :/ and then there are extra taxes we have to pay in addition to property tax (around .77% of the homes value).
@@cocoj3194 ahahaha, thank you dude!! Yeah everyone on the forums just want CEA data, what's the SPL at 15hz, like imagine if we treated speakers this way, like we literally just bought speakers because they could do 120dB at 18khz lol
rel customer here. But one thing that is 100% required is DSP of the low frequencies. I guarantee you that 99% of the people watching this have awful standing waves in their rooms around 50Hz that no matter where they place their sub it will never disappear. Cutting off frequencies from mains can work, but if you just use REW and proper EQ it is absolute game changer. Before DSPing my sub I couldn't hear the lowest freq because of 55Hz 10db peak from my room, now everything sounds balanced and magical. If your source is PC you can even do that for free with APO EQ app. Big up to you. P.S. I have the 1003 I live in appartment and it is sitting few inches away from my butt. I think it is the one to recommend for bang per buck, would love to hear how it is vs speedwoofer and sb1000
Agreed 100%, EQing with a calibration mic will improve bass and subbass performance more than most people can imagine. I had a 15dB peak at 60 Hz, horrid. REW + ApoEQ are really not rocket science and it's all free.
@@TheSecondMaker yeah, many people think that to do room corrections they need crappy minidsp thingy. I didn't want to introduce this gadget to my audio chain and APO EQ works great. I am sure with the proper DSP skills you can get 4 massive subs in small room to sound amazing.
I don't think 99% of people have standing waves but I agree some rooms have big problems. I have a small spike around 40hz but I like it :). I've thought about doing a dsp but like you said I don't want to add that box into my system. Also you are correct, DSP can work wonders in small rooms, my friend had dual PB16 and dual SB3000 in a small theater room and it sounded amazing! He has since changed to dual Rythmik F18 and G25 and it still sounds incredible. The time alignment that DSP helps with care really make a big difference in complex multichannel setups. If I could find a dsp that was for bass only and didn't affect anything above say 100hz I would be curious to play with it but at the same time I don't want to introduce more DA conversions.
@@NemoPropaganda you can configure the dsp to touch only the low freq. Lets say you have Sub out on your stereo amp - just attach RCA to minidsp and then you have four different RCA outs to different subs all with seperate options. I am also delaying my purchase of minidsp hd but at some point it is going to be inevitable. But good mic to do REW sweep of your room is super super helpful, you will be surprised what happens below 120Hz since the acoustic treatment barely has any effect on these freqs.
I purchased the original REL Strata sub over 25 years ago and it's still going strong. It was an expensive purchase back then but now I consider it the best value audio buy that I have ever made.
At the end of the day, I just can’t move away from Rel. My past experience and these reviews tell me everything I need to know why I’m an SQ guy first. Keep up the great work!
Great to see this and confirm my thoughts and findings. I demoed the tx9 amd tx7 in a room maybe 7 x 13m. I listened for over 2 hours. I have a smaller room, 3.5 x 7.2m and i have neighbours below me that i was concerned with. With the tx9 gain set to about 6 clciks , i found to get the same spl from the tx7 it was set to around 12 clicks. I also noticdd that at similat spls, the tx9's dwon firing passive radiator was producing way more output than the 7, althoigh at the listening position, you wouldnt be able to tell this. It was a striking difference when putting your ear up to the sub tho, and this is what made me nervous aboit getting the 9, and annoying my neighbours, and therefore never being able to use the sub properly. I also felt like you Nemo, that an amp or sub should be turned up on the volume dial a half decent amoint in order to really open it up and get the unit working in its sweet spot. So i decided for my smaller room with neighbours to go with the x7. And im.so glad i did!. I have the gain set at 11 clicks and the room gain in the smaller room meant that i noticed much more bass at this level than i did in the larger room, and it seems to go deeper. (I presume the lower frequencies are given a boost by the room). I love this sub! Every piece of music and album sounds better, and almost every piece of music has significantly more information in it than i knew ever existed. Its just a shame i had to wait this long to get my first sub (finances allowed now). I was considering jl audio and Arendal. Im glad i went with the rel. It sounds amazing. I use it for hifi only and is the main reason i have it, although im sure I'll get it put through the tv audio soon. Thanks rel! And thanks Nemo for the vids..... so happy with it.
I fretted between tzero and t5x for a long time. Went for a pair of tzeros when they went on sale. During the break-in (100% compulsory) all my concerns about them not being enough were dispelled. I wanted a pair for 2 channel listening but I did not want to disturb my upstairs neighbors. Tzeros integrates well and brought warmth and modest texture to my speakers. It would be interesting to get nemo’s take for sure.
james derby i also went for zeros. because i thought the small drivers would integrate perfectly with the tiny mid/bass drivers of my main speakers. not tried the bigger models
These videos are so good. Most reviews are either super boring with no real value, full of Class D level comedy, or completely disingenuous, paid for, and deejayed by snobs. This channel is all killer, no filler.
You're a great down-to-earth speakers lecturer thank you. Sometime in life there are some who wouldn't appreciate what they've gotten as a blessing until someone tells them directly or indirectly. . .and I'm one of those. You're right the sb3k was an over-kill for your room size. Yours and mine are nearly similar ( mine at 10ft x 13ft with 8ft 6inch high). I had the sb1k at 300 watts which was enough but due to greed for more power I've upgraded to sb3k which is an over-killer. Again greed had me wanting to upgrade to sb4k in the same small room but realised would be a sheer waste of money plus it's too big and very heavy and I might not even increase volume for fear of neighbours underneath my wooden floor and additional two neighbours to two sides of my walls. So I did a runner after physically viewing the sb4k at my local hifi store. The spouse acceptancy factor is working against my passion too.
I'm a sound quality guy, people on AVS are going crazy about the new Monolith 13" and 16" one note boomboxes and I couldn't care less about them. I have my 2 REL Predators on order that I got for $1K each, can't wait to set them up and listen.
Yeah, a lot of people on the forums believe the old information like bass is non directional, or it's all the same you just need extension and SPL, if it measures good it sounds good, they don't realize or perhaps can't hear that bass like any frequency can have a refinement to it. The predators should be awesome, I have not checked them out personally (yet) but everyone who owns one has been thoroughly impressed.
Rel is the most overrated and overpriced subs on the market. Calling the monolith a one note boom box is just pure nonsense. Have you seen the distortion numbers on those subs? I guarantee you the distortion numbers on the rel are not even close to that monolith. Anyone that says a smaller driver is quicker than a larger driver can’t be taken seriously. Those drivers are head and shoulders better than the rel. The rel predator has -6db point around 22hz. That overpriced sub will roll off in the high 20s. That is terrible for the money they cost. I have personally had or demoed the following subs hsu, rythmik, psa, jtr, svs, rel, Martin Logan, jl, and funk. Guess which one was my least favorite by a long shot.
@@Ctripp2448 Sounds like you're only into charts and graphs. 2 subwoofers can have the same exact response on a frequency response graph yet sound completely different. I know from experience in my room. One might have a deeper sound, one might be tighter etc. If you're only into SPL then yeah get a Monolith or overpriced SVS.
@@Ctripp2448 you're certainly entitled to have your opinion and personal taste, it sounds like you're an SPL customer, no surprise then you will not like REL. SPL customers like heavy bass, REL is not heavy bass. That doesn't mean it's overrated. This is like saying BMW Is overrated because you can feel the road too much while failing to realize that is by intentional design to feel connected to the road. It's not your to your taste, that's okay, but it is a lot of other peoples taste.
@@Slickman2006 did you read anything I said? I am into sound quality not spl. More headroom allows you to lower distortion which increases sound quality. Do you know how much music and movie material there is under 30 hz?? Don’t be the typical fanboy of a brand that falls for a bunch of marketing nonsense. Research and go listen to as many high quality subs you can. I have done that with multiple different brands, measured and hours and hours of listening. Rel is wayyyy overpriced for the performance period. Not my opinion it is a fact
My REL SHO/5 is amazing. I was thing about getting a few of them and run 6 of them lol. Thank you for such honest reviews. You get what you pay for. Thank you Nemo
Got my first rel yesterday (t7x pair) in white after watching this video and being convinced to go with the blind purchase. First piece of audio gear that absolutely exceeded my expectations immediately. Never experienced this before. Usually have a period of doubting a new purchase but these are not in that category. If you don't like these it's possible that... YOU DIED 😉
My first Rel was a TZero MKIII ($340 shipped, Ebay ). Hooked it up my listening room (14L x 9W x 8H) with a pair of Elac DBR62 and I couldn't believe how a 6.5" woofer can produce such amazing bass. It extended the speaker down more than the already great bass from the DBR. It also sounded effortless. So I got hooked on Rel subs. If a TZero can produce something so amazing and seeing that it's smaller than even one DBR speaker (in height mostly), I jumped on an opportunity to pick up the Rel S/5 for half price for my bday this summer. It was massive and I placed that in my room. Four Tzeros can fit into one S/5. In the room, it sounded maybe a little bit better than the TZero but not by much. Maybe just a tad deeper. It can definitely play way louder but for a balanced sound, the volume was at 2 clicks. I would say TZero is 95% of the bass I needed in my room compared to the S/5. Yea, there is such thing as too much bass for one room. But when I brought the S/5 down to the living room (19' x 16'W x 8'H) and compared it to the TZero there, it was no contest. TZero got destroyed. So now, the S/5 is a theater sub though it was made to do both duties very well. Also just ordered a T7i (ebay of course) and will get to see how that compares to the TZero tomorrow.
Nice! Good think you had a bigger room to put it in, 2 clicks up is definitely too much subwoofer for the room :). Good job realizing that on your own!
@@miclinda256 I was going to recommend Rel's sub pairing website but it looks like they're recommending the TZero MKIIIs for the DBR62. I can attest to that the TZero sound pretty good with the DBR62 actually in my room. I have a single T7i in my room now and I only need about 10 clicks (volume @ 1/3) for my rooms size of 125 SF (11.5 sm) to mix into my Triangle Titus. I think for my DBR62, I would need a bit less because the DBR is less sensitive so I'm already cranking the amp more. Since I use High Level connection, I need to bring the volume down on the sub when the amp is more cranked. I would recommend the T7x's. Your room is more than double the size of mine and having the T7x will give you more headroom and pair better if you decide to upgrade your speakers down the line. You know how this hobby goes. But given the performance of the TZero, I think the T5x would work fine too.
I am very curious how the budget ht 1003 would compare to this models for stereo systems. I really like how you take into account the differences and most suitable use of all these really good products. That's exactly what we need to see, not just advertisement for products as its seen often.
I'm days away from pulling the trigger on dual t7x setup so I was pumped to see you review these. I wish you had an affiliate link but nevertheless I understand your reasons for not doing all of that. I'm going to order from rel store and will be sure to mention you. I've mostly used your personal experience with rel to narrow down my decision. Lastly, Rhythmik needs to get you some fm8 subs. I see they are backordered til November on their site. Maybe that will be something I'll try in the future but I can't go on much longer without hearing a dual rel setup
Do it soon if you can, they're on sale through the end of October!! Yeah I want to check out another Rythmik sub but as you said there are industry wide stock issues at the moment so it doesn't really make sense.
@@NemoPropaganda yeah saw a week or so ago that t7x are $1000 on sale.. that's helping the decision now it's black or white... black are sold out on rel Amazon site but white show available. Might be what I end up with
@@erics.4113 White with the grill off is beautiful while I prefer the black with the grill on, both are really good looking. Just know the white isn't like a frost snow white, it has a slight cream to it. You can kind of see it in the video compared to my S400 MKII.
@@NemoPropaganda the Buchardt are like white white then? I do like the look of both colors on the rel but maybe I'll just go with white to be a little different. No shortage of black cubes for subs. I really like the studded 3 piece wheel look on the black though. I'm considering a wild pair of custom tekton maybe purple or red or blue so with the white subs would look kinda different
My friend, I wanted to let you know I just got the 1003 and use it to add bass to my center channel. Lemme tell you, it was a perfect choice. I have the 1205 as my regular sub, but that 10 incher filled in that area that the center channel doesn't normally cover. It's like REL knows what you need before you do. Also have a T9/i hooked up to my stereo system. Love it! A year ago I didn't have any Rel. Now I own 3. Great reviews. Thank you.
So after your review of the t/5x I bought one. I wanted one a couple of years ago, but life happens and I had to use my money on other things. Anyway after I bought them I asked Rel what they suggested and they told me it would be a great match. But if I wanted to upgrade I should buy one t/7x instead of two t/5x. Probably because it's a small room but with a really high sloped ceiling (8,5x14x15). So probably because of placing issues. Anyway after this review I started to have doubts. Luckily I could return the t/5x and now I have a t/7x coming to my house. My wallet is crying. But I listened to the t/5x and will know for certain which one I like more. Will give an update when I can compare them. Thank you for all the videos it really helped me to make a informed decision.
@@NemoPropaganda Okey I got the T/7x in the mail last monday. I didn't do any critical listening yet, I hope to that this weekend. But my first reaction is: impressive! I know now clearly that for my room the T/5x was not enough, because of the really high ceiling I couldn't get great bass pressure. With the T/7x I definitely can! Also integration is much better. With the T/5x I could hear where the sub-bass came from, with the T/7x that is definitely less apparent. I do think that's because the T/5x uses only a downfiring woofer where the T/7x does not (or not only). Because of the high ceiling a down-firing woofer would probably be less optimal. I also notice much more texture, as you have said. All in all this is a much better fit for my room. Even with a cheap iotavx SA3 amp I feel like I have a totally new system. Also I have the T/7x set at 20 clicks and it's not overpowering at all, where I had the T/5x at almost 35 clicks. Of couse I still need to listen crictically so do take my first impression as that a first impression.
@@MrBouncingDeath Awesome!!! Yeah different firing orientation like down firing or side firing can be hit or miss depending on the room. I'm glad the 7x is a win so far for you. It really is impressive what it can do for how small it is.
loved your review, as always!! and so nice to see such a knowledgeable reviewer as you accepting you didn't know ALL about the subwoofer/company you were reviewing. that's absolutely refreshing! no ego! just wonderful passionate knowledge and experience you are sharing with all of us! thanks! ...and man, looking into buying a rel soooooon and integrate it withy my Q acoustics concept 40 speakers. awesome!
This evening (I live in the Netherlands) I have watched probably 20 videos about subwoofers on your channel that have helped me tremendously. My compliments on your clear explanations and presentation! Let me state up front that I am a real SQ guy, so in terms of brand it will be a Rel. My room is 10 x 18ft by 7.5ft ceiling. My setup is full Audio Note system, so a OTO 2x10w tube-amp paired with AN-J LX hemp high effecienty speakers. Audio Note Dac3.1x/II yes also tubes in here. The amp and speakers are a match made in heaven, but since I removed my couch I have low end problems. The system although its neutral, it’s sounds rich, live and full of emoticon. So every track sounds completely different. (Mostly I associate neutral systems with cold tonality, extreme resolution and analytical which I don’t like. But that’s another story haha. But the disadvantage of high effecienty speakers is the lack of authority in the lows. Previously I was barely satisfied with the low, but since the sofa with footstool has made way for a recliner the bass is gone. Huge dip at 40hz and I played two days again on speaker and the mlp. But they cant fill the room anymore. Did some simple measurements to. I want to benifit from all the audiophile aspects like, increase in soundstage, three dimensionality, dark background. I love warm tonality and texture to. But I think it’s also cool to have sometimes quite some thump when playing louder. Which makes the choice more difficult. So im not sure to go with dual T5X or one T7X? (If you need more background information for a more accurate reply, don't hesitate to ask me)
Hi Nick, thank you for the kind words. It's hard to say if you will be happy with 2 T5X or 1 T7X because bass can be very personal How much bass is "enough" is the same with any other aspect of sound. Some people (like me) prefer lots of bass, even more than is accurate while others prefer just a tiny amount. My suggestion is to demo the subwoofers if possible at a local dealer.
@@NemoPropaganda you said in one of your reviews dual subs will give more of the audiophile qualities like increase of soundstage, 3D and darker background. Might a good placed T7x perhaps in the middle behind the rig will equally add the above mentioned qualities or are the duals always better at this? Do the dual T5X’s have the same grunt and deep bottom of on T7X?
@@nicktube3904 I have said that yes, I have also said I almost always prefer to have 1 item that is better versus 2 that are not as good so like many people I too am full of internal conflict. I think a pair of T5X is certainly the safest option.
As someone who's looking at a REL sub, this video was super helpful and informative! Thanks a ton! Had been looking to go T/9x as a buy once, cry once mindset. Your note of consideration for room size really has me thinking of the T/7x for a better sound.
The 2 REL subs that I own are the T/Zero MKIII and the HT/1003. The T/Zero is in a desktop system paired with the Emotiva Airmotiv B1+ speakers. I have a crossover box on the output from my DAC. The low pass output goes the Tzero low level input. The high pass goes to the amp, to which the B1+ are connected. I have the crossover set at 65 Hz. Leaving both the speakers and the sub to do what they are really good at. DAC: Topping D90; Cross over: Rolls SX45; Integrated amp: Keces E40. The HT1003 is in my front system connected to Vanatoo Transparent Zero (T0) powered speakers. An active cross over network is engaged when a sub is connected to these speakers. 120Hz (shelved DSP mode) and 80Hz (flat DSP mode) are the x-over options. Mine are set at 80Hz. I also have the limiters disabled; download and read the manual, it's worth the time. The T0 speakers and the HT1003 are an awesome combination and a great value. An external DAC is not needed. I actually recommend not using and external and instead using digital input, optical specifically, for the best results. I also use a Xduoo XQ-50 Pro bluetooth receiver. The bluetooth in the T0 is pretty basic. I can use LDAC protocol with the XQ-50 to receive the signal and convert it to optical to feed the T0. Vanatoo speakers are great value and well reviewed on TH-cam. However I would love to see a review of them on this channel. The active sub crossover is an under rated feature and the other reviewers don't give it the attention it deserves. The speakers are more efficient with the crossover engaged since they don't have drive the low frequencies. It would be great to see a Nemo review testing the crossover with the various subs in the collection. Vanatoo also makes the Transparent One Encore (T1E). T1E has a 5.25" driver vs a 4" driver on the T0. The inputs on the T1E are higher spec'd and include coax (which the T0 does not have). The T1E also has a cherry finish as an option.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks for the shout out. It's been a while since TH-cam suggested one of your videos. They need an option to give subscribed channels priority in the suggestions. I just created an account and joined your discord channel.
Hi! Thanks for your review. It is very helpful. For you, in room 22 m2. What model is better for pairing a Kef LS50 Meta, T5x or T7x? I like it buy a pair to improve my system.
Best REL Sub review as always. Thanks again. You made some good points about the need for right fit for T7x and T9x in different size rooms. I think My Pair of T9x might be too big. My room is 18 wide by 24 deep but I listen from 10-12 feet away. Boy the two T9x really put out a lot bass/SPL. Im at 10 clicks gain per side L/R to make it sound good with music. Movies 15 clicks.
I think your room could go either way but since you do movies too I think you made the right choice! If it's overloading the room a little bit you can space them out from the walls an inch or two, that should help them have a more natural (less forced) response.
@@NemoPropaganda Ok, thanks for your insights. Great idea on moving from wall its about 1 ft from wall now. I may also add acoustic treatments, but may not do much for bass. Thanks!
Nemo, excellent review as always. Thank you! Got an idea. Ask for both the Tzero and HT 1003 at the same time. Use the Tzero as a midbass driver and HT for the last octave. I think the combo might compete with the T9x.
That certainly would be interesting, they're both small so I'm not opposed to doing that actually. I'll talk to REL and see what they think about it. If it works well it could be a cool addition for existing Tzero owners looking for a little more kick!
Hey thank's man! Btw I did some shit with my car audio setup and got it in a good spot finally. The memphis mojo 8" was the final winner!! Maybe I went a little crazy and had 2 custom boxes built (1 ported, 1 sealed) and ordered a second driver so I can switch between ported and sealed based on my mood 🤣 I did the ported one tuned at 29hz, holy mother of god, it's not accurate by any means but she rumbles like hell!!!!
@@NemoPropaganda Hell Yea! I feel you on the ported and sealed Mood swings. I wanted to do the same thing for my car. On another note I bought Two SVS Sb4000s for my home theatre. Spent a few days dialing it in. Having loads of fun.
@@NemoPropaganda I was going to buy another pb13 ultra, but I said screw it let's try something new so the PB13 got sold. The switch did make me appreciate how LOW the PB13 can get. My new setup is dual Sb4000, two bass shakers in the seating and a rsl speedwoofer nearfield behind the seating. Certainly does the trick for me! 🤣
@@ThujanK I so relate to the "might as well" thinking lol. That sounds like a killer setup honestly!! That RSL is tactile as hell so it's perfect for nearfield too!
unless your floor is very textured or dusty you should be fine. There is a thin layer of grippy material underneath the footer (assuming you have removed the clear plastic protective cover) that should grip most surfaces. Hard surfaces should always be cleaned before you put your subwoofer down as large amounts of dust may cause some slipping. Again make sure to remove the clear plastic cover on the footers, many people don't realize they're there and wonder why their subs move around, it's a thin clear plastic that peels right off.
I just came across your videos and all really helpful. I wanted to ask your thoughts ... REL T7X or the B&W ASW610 or 608 - Much more for music listening.
BW ASW series cannot compete with REL T/X series for sound quality. Go for TX if its in the budget. If not ASW is only good if you can buy used and cheap.
Just getting around to seeing this review bc I am looking at the T/7x. I loved your explanation regarding the difference between using the Tx series' high level input and using the HT series' low level input. But you can't use the low level input unless your integrated or preamp has a sub out and/or another variable pre out, right? Some cheap amps don't have that. The Tx series has both high level and low level inputs so you are covered either way. I like the Tx series for its flexibility in that regard.
@@NemoPropaganda thanks for the quick answer! Sorry to keep asking but I’m not very experienced with cable management… so you connected the banana end of the high level cable to a spade connector/adapter and then that spade connector is attached to the banana plug from your speaker cable on the back of your receiver???
@@the_maxx31 the REL high level cable is terminated with barewire, you can just use it that way. I decided to get fancy and added spade terminals to the ends of mine and trimmed the cable to a shorter length. You don't have to do that though, just unscrew your banana terminals on the back of your amp, wrap the wire around the post, tighten it down, done, your REL sub is connected to your amp. Make sure to remember yellow & Red are both positive while black is negative aka ground.
It's interesting that theoretically, passive radiator designs tend to have more group delay compared to ported enclosures and should therefore sound sloppier. But most reviewers I've seen find PR subs more articulate. I guess it's because PR subs allow for deeper tuning in small enclosures whereas "perfect" ported designs need much bigger boxes than people would be willing to buy. Again, just guessing.
Love your video content Nemo. I purchased a REL Predator 1510 in large part due to your review a few months back. Thinking of upgrading my nearfield PC audio setup in a year or so, and therefore considering a pair of TX series. Keep up the awesome work mate.
Awesome content. In a 12x15 room would you recommend two t5x or one t7x. Mostly music with some ht. Currently have a set of small Klipsch the fives powered speakers.
Hi Ryan, thank you for the kind words, since you are between two subwoofers from the same company I would suggest you ask REL, they have a lot more experience with different room sizes than I do and give very good advice. But if you just want my opinion honestly I would be happy with either option and my room is 12x14 but since you listen to theater also why not just go for their HT1205? That will still sound good for music and give you a lot more output for theater.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks for the advice. I contacted REL as well and they also recommended the ht. I just prefer small sub pairs for how tight and accurate they are. It’s also easier for me to accommodate two smaller units vs one large one. Do you think the Svs micro is worth a try if I only use one vs two t5x. I know the sound quality isn’t as good but the price is compelling vs two REL. Again appreciate the help and keep up the totality awesome work your doing.
@@ryanswisher8652 The HT is tight and accurate, if the 1205 is too big, get a pair of 1003 instead. As far as SVS vs REL I made a video about that and you can find that here: th-cam.com/video/rEz03XkcslI/w-d-xo.html
You mentioned experience with passive radiators like on the 7 & 9 being sloppy . I was wondering if that was your experience with 3 way speakers too? I don't know that many speakers with them , the Klipsch Forte four I think . Just wondering if that was all around experience with some ? I know you don't feel that about these . I'm just asking questions trying to learn and about all of this the hobby has to deal with
How do a pair of t7x pair with the Buchardt s400 mkii, in your room? Have you tried placing a pair of subwoofers in a near field setup? To the right and left of the listening position, instead of next to the main speakers? I find it amazing. Creates a much greater immersive bass and a lot of the room issues go away as you are near field to the subwoofers.
I have them right next to the speakers on the inside. I have tested them flanking my listening position and I do agree it was very good but it doesn't look good in my room like that so I keep them next to the speakers.
Thank you for details review! I’m considering one sub to pair with my kef ls50 wireless 2. My eyes now are on rel t7, svs 1000 pro and kc62 and I’m in to 90% music and 10% to movie. Which one you think will make a good setup? Thank you again!
Love your reviews. More excurtion gives more distortion, right? I am struggling to understand how a sub need to breathe. Small subs are sure easier to position correctly!
I won't pretend to be a driver engineer, I'm not familiar with the relationship between distortion and excrusion enough to speak on the subject. Indeed though it is very convenient moving around smaller subs :)
Great video!! I have on my system 2 S/812 for front left and right speakers connected both by hi level connector and LFE, for center channel an 7x in high level and for surround which do you recommend? An 7x or 5x? My system its an 7.4.2 Thank you in advance
since you have all REL subs I think it would be good for you to email them directly and get their opinion. I only do 2ch stereo myself so I don't have much experience with multi channel.
it is an active subwoofer. you just need to split the signal at your source and than 1 goes to the acoustic energy and the other to your sub. I do not know what's your source, but if its a PC, you''ll need a dac, than rca OUT to the ae1 and to the subwoofer. if your source goes to the ae1 using the rca input in analog, you just need a Y splitter.
Hmm… should I get a second Tzero mk3 or a signle T7x? 😅 I pair them with the Ls3/5a and those guys has quite a bump in the 100hz and I find the Tzero bleeding into the mids. I only turn the crossover 2 clicks from the lowest point and this only adds to the sub bass and doesn’t add much to the kick drum punch. I listen to heavy metal from bands like Epica, Dream Theater and SleepToken while my father prefers listening without the sub as he mainly listens to vocals.
1 t7x for sure is better than a pair of Tzero. But if you mostly listen to metal you may even prefer the fuller sound of the HT1003 MK2, try to demo one if possible.
Yes absolutely, the 1205 can extend lower so it will further reinforce the bottom end. I'd cross it over very low, like maybe all the way down or 30-40hz in your AVR if you have that option.
Thanks for your very informative videos. What is your opinion on 2 channel listening for a room size 12x10x7 feet ? One T7x or two T5x ? My speakers are Harbeth M30.2. I prefer more quality sound than amount of base. I don’t play rock.
Hey Chandana, thank you for the question, our rooms are nearly identical. So either option will be enough bass in my opinion for that room and both will have outstanding SQ but the 7X takes the edge overall. I would start with 1 T7X, you can add another one later if you feel that you need it but I think the only reason to add a second T7X would be to have stereo bass as 1 should have plenty of output for your room.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks Nemo. I will start with a 1 T7x. I learned a lot about subwoofers from your videos and they are really good for people like me looking for a sub but not sure where to start. Thanks again.
I also have the Buchardt s400mk2. In 13x18x8 room. Dermot at Rel suggested the T7x or T9x. He explained to me that while Buchardt claims 33hz the actual is probably 40-45. And the sub would add better base down low. Which combo of rel do you prefer with Buchardt? I’m purely music listening. Oh and I’m working with GIK getting my room acoustic correct.
I'd see how you like the Predator on it's own first, no sense wasting money if it's perfect on it's own :). I did run the T5X pair with an HT1205 just for fun and it did sound incredible though so if you want to have some fun I'm sure it'll sound great but I wouldn't say it's needed.
Great video !! I'm considering the T7X or T9X. Currently have the Goldenear super XXL sub. Will this be a lateral move or better? Now the question is which one? Room is 15 x 17. Components Sonus Faber Sonetta III L&R, C1 center, 562 rear in wall speaker, Marantz AV 7706 processor and ATI 4005 amp. Your recommendation is? Thanks.
Hi Ed, it's important to remember your current XXL sub is $2500, fairly large, and weighs 82lbs! Certainly not the largest nor the heaviest but a good bit larger, heavier, and more expensive than even the largest of the T/X range by nearly double. If you are looking to outright replace your current subwoofer you'll need to consider something similar in size/weight if you want to have the same maximum SPL, from REL that would be something like the Predator 1508 or S/812. A pair of T9X would of course also be a very nice upgrade but it sounds like you're just asking about 1 sub.
@@edsinger8900 if you're happy with it then absolutely yes! Would either REL be an upgrade? Absolutely! But we can play that game forever, for every item you own there is most likely something better that costs around the same or slightly more. As technology continues to advance this will never change. Look at TV's, for every $200 you add to your budget you can get a better TV but you have to draw the line somewhere and set a budget. Now if you think you can perhaps recover around half by selling your existing sub that makes upgrading a bit more palatable. As always with life, there are a ton of options :).
This is my first time watching your video as I am thinking of a pair of speakers with a sub. I am a headphone user, has a few DACs, Head Amps which can be pre-amps. I am a dummy on speakers Hi Fi setup and was considering the R700 but don’t have the space for it. My room is small at only - 4.25 L x 3.15 W x 2.48 H in meters (13’11” x 10’4” x 8’1”). After deducting space used for bookshelves along both walls and a work desk at the end, the next space is 3.65 L x 2.51 W x 2.48 H in meters or 11’11” L x 8’2” W x 8’1” so I am recommended the R200. All reviews I saw are favorable for this speaker. This pair of speakers will be on my new work desk in my Work Room at home first for music listening purposes, I may add a subwoofer or 2 as I like soundstage, musically clear and warmer sounds. My LG sound bar is not meeting expectations with my TV in the living room so if the R200 can fit the little space I have on each side of my tv and can be placed on the console, that’s when I’d consider making it into a home-theatre-like setup. I will then get the Centre, upward firing Atmos and surround speakers for a Home-Theatre-like setup. I intend to use the Gustard R26 as the DAC. To anyone who can help me, I need your advices for these questions: 1. R200 with 1 or 2 subwoofer? Brand and model please? I was recommended the Rel T7X, T9X and the Rythmix F12 or a pair of L12s. 2. Amplifiers and/or other equipments for the above? 3. Which Centre and surround speakers to get if turning into a Atmos/DTX-S “Home-Theatre” (it’s just or living room, not a dedicated big room for real Home Theatre)? 4. Which amplifier, brand and model should I get if I am doing (1), (2), and (3) above? 5. What other equipments do I need? Too bad I live in a country where I can’t just purchase something and then return because I don’t like it and I can’t find a shop that has the Polk Audio R200 for test.
Interesting but could use details on why class a/b is more compelling than class d for lower base , what’s the equivalent SVS SUB,, and how does work or work less well for home theater?
I cannot talk about everything that everyone wants, the video will easily approach 1 hour and I don't think anybody wants to watch such a long video :). I made an entire video about REL compared to SVS, if you're asking for an equivalent model you need to watch that video to understand the difference which you can see here: th-cam.com/video/rEz03XkcslI/w-d-xo.html as far as how it performs for theater I believe you are watching one of my videos for the first time perhaps and may not know this channel is for 2ch music only. I hope this provides some clarification to your concerns.
@@NemoPropaganda LOL. I’ve seen that video but it means so much more now that I am closer to choosing a direction, ie whether I go with BMW or Mercedes. Following your car analogy, you have to see and experience a car before you decide, as narration only gets you so close. For example, I thought I knew the dimensions of a 600 LT until I saw one live today. Video doesn’t do the proportions justice. Wicked! Thanks NEMO!!!! I’ve got some testing to do
@@maximo90019 Yeah I understand, at some point you really have to just experience the gear, how big is your room? Are you doing 50/50 music and movies?
@@maximo90019 okay, so you have a schmedium room and it's the evil square lol, I'd go for a single HT-1205, it's a great all around sub, great with music and has tons of output if you want to get crazy with your movies :). Of course a single SVS SB2000 Pro or a pair of T7X will also be great options though they have completely different sounds.
Hi David, I don't use LFE, with REL I use their high-level cable and for other subs I use the standard L + R preout hookups (rca) and the RCA cable I use is the Analysis Plus Oval One.
Hey Nemo did you c the KEF Q series speaker commercial on tv ? I’ve never seen a speaker commercial on a national channel before ? It’s expensive to air a commercial like that. I saw it on a commercial break while watching Mornings with Maria on Fox Business . Thought it was pretty cool nice commercial . Did you get a good percentage from the movie ? Finding NEMo lol love Nemo .
Spot on with your comparison of T7x vs T9x, because it’s the same with the T7i vs T9i. Just wondering if you think it’s worth upgrading from the T7i to the T7x? I’m thinking it can’t be that much better, but please feel free to surprise me! I was also considering the T5i at the time of purchase, but I’m so glad I went with the T7i as it’s more ‘musical’ and more than enough for movies (it can shake my windows).
that's a tough question to answer as I've not heard the 7i. My stance on upgrading to a new model of anything is always this: If you have the extra cash and it's not a big deal then go for it, if it's going to cause a fight with the wife or you have to save up the money, or you could do better things with the money then perhaps it's better to keep enjoying what you have.
@@NemoPropaganda that’s good advice. I’d also add that if there are other components that are weaker in the chain then upgrading those first would probably give a bigger bang-for-the-buck than a 7i to 7x upgrade.
@@mtkreger totally agree with your “grass is greener” mindset in Hi-Fi, which is why I’m sceptical that upgrading from a 7i to 7x would make enough of a difference. For myself, there’s nothing lacking in the 7i, but although it boosts the soundstage making it more expansive and engaging by bringing out the room acoustics in good recordings, I think it may be masking some of the subtleties and delicacy of the layering I hear in my speakers without the sub. In one track in particular, I can actually hear a decrease in the soundstage depth, which compresses the layers reducing the air between instruments. Thus, I suspect that the 7i has a character which will be different to more expensive subs, and that character is being forced on to my speakers. As good as the 7i is, I suspect my speakers (Vandersteen Model 1Ci) out class it. The question comes down to whether I’m right about the layering and if I miss it enough to look for a sub that better enhances my speaker’s profile. For that I’d like to hear the same phenomenon in more tracks. Time will tell…
Question, I have B&W 603 S2 Tower's. I would like to buy a subwoofer, was thinking of the T 7x for music and the 1205 for movies. Would that be a good match and also can I use both when watching movies? Or should I stick with B&W subwoofer? Thanks
Hi Nemo, I have a T7x with Aria 906 and i was thinking to add a Rel HT 1003 mk1 to get more extension, will it fit well together with my stereo amp ?? If yes, how do i have to connect the Rel HT, the T7 IS connected with high level. Thx , keep going that way 👌
Rel are excellent no doubt about it. Regarding the high level connection marketing I think it is due to that every amplifier has speakers level output and not all have preout outputs . I think if every amplifier had low level output on it then REL would have been marketing the LOW level connection. All of those connections are good . Low level is jast as good as high level connection if not better in certain cases. I prefer the low level connection of svs. Two preout outputs on your amp and two RCA cables and your done. simple. efficient. Yet regarding quality - REL are no 1 with SVS.
Hey Nemo, when I compared the Rythmik L12 to a REL t5i (yeah, I am that guy who cross-shopped based on price), sure, the L12 extended deeper but I picked the L12s because it had that more muscular and fuller sound than the REL t5i , which was fast but lacked weight to the sound. Is that tonal differences? With the introduction of the T/X series, you mentioned (and have heard this elsewhere) that the sound is fuller (especially the t7/9x over the t5x). My other question is, is that more closer to the Rythmik? My room is about 12% smaller than yours, I can't go back to a single sub, and I am definitely a SQ buyer based on your previous definition. I would go with Rythmik F12 but I just discovered it's even larger than my L12s, which I am trying to avoid. Thanks for the help.
Hey Eugene, so the difference is simply in the size, you're comparing 2 SQ subwoofers so that's fair however at the end of the day an 8" is not a 12" even if they are priced similarly. You are not the first man to wish a small subwoofer can have the performance of a larger one (I am guilty of this also). You can tighten the gap a bit with certain tricks like having 2 smaller subwoofers but if you want small subs you just have to accept they are small subs and will have some limits. The T5X is fantastic but will never sound like the L12.
@@NemoPropaganda thanks Nemo, would you say the same thing about the t7x and t9x? It sounds like the muscular weight to the sound is not there in an 8 inch sub which makes me wonder if it’s there in the led kc62. I would go with the f12se but whatever I get, it will need to be two since I have them correctly located in my room for smooth bass from 20hz to 100hz. But the f12 is a bigger cabinet.
@@sunshine242-l4y The KC62 uses a lot of DSP trickery to accomplish it's magic so that's another story. As you go up the REL chain 7x and 9x naturally will be fuller sounding with a larger sense of scale. At the end of the day I wouldn't worry about it too much , you've chosen the L12 which is a fine subwoofer!
Nemo I just added a (White ) REL T7X subwoofer to blend in with my HECO Aurora 700 Tower speakers. Can you do a video on best practices to break-in your Sub if you are in an apartment. Besides just running it 8 hours for 3 consecutive days at a moderate volume. Thanks I enjoy all your videos!
Hi Vince, easiest way is to take the driver out of the cabinet and let it break in free-air. Be careful not to overdrive the subwoofer driver as it will have more excursion in free air, running it somewhat hard for about 2-4 hours this way should have break in mostly finished. The passive will still need to break in separately but you'll be most of the way there without shaking your house. Make sure not to cover the vent on the backside of the magnet while the driver is being broken in free air. Conversely if this sounds too complicated just watch a few movies. After the 3rd or fourth one it should be mostly broken in :). REL T/X range don't need hundreds of hours, just a few :).
Hello, do you see an advantage or benefit of adding the Rel sub to the Buchardts? If yes, Which Rel would you recommend for pairing with the Buchardt's?
Hi Cory, it really depends on the room and your goals, the original s400 is hard to pair with subwoofers. Are you looking for more of the bass you already have or are you looking for more extension? What country are you in?
@@NemoPropaganda I listen to close to reference levels in my large room... I am looking to move to the A500 and was thinking if a sub would be needed... or would you be of the opinion that an A700 would be better. Located in the US
@@cory3685 You can't use a sub with the A500 unless you ditch the hub and use a preamp but that kind of makes the whole proposition silly, might as well get the S400 MK2 instead. With that said the A500 have tons of bass, 99% or users will not feel the need to add a subwoofer but I don't know how loud you really listen, if reference levels means 95dB or higher I strongly suggest you reach out to Buchardt and ask their opinion. I'm not familiar with A700 so I can't comment.
Even the largest of the Tx subs is smaller than the 10s and substantially smaller than the 12s. Generally I don't compare subwoofers that are so vastly different in size and design. RSL is more about bringing maximum value to the table while REL is more of a luxury brand that is obsessively focused on sound quality and aesthetics. You want a Cello to sound as real as possible you buy a REL, you lookin for big output on a budget you buy RSL, totally different. The closest comparisons between the two brands would be something like the 1205 MK2 versus the 10s or Predator 1510 vs 12s. Series T/X are way to small to compare to large vented subs. I think you may be a little new to this and suggest you hop in my free discord to chat with some people that will be able to point you in the right direction based on your needs, link is in the description.
I have a pair of Kef Q100s (the older style ones with the front facing ports at the bottom). In a room that is approx. 200sq feet. I already get okish bass from the speakers and good mid and top end from them. I put the details into REL's website and it recommended a single t5x. When I went to order them richer sounds here in the UK they suggested sticking to one T5x or two of them or jumping up to the T7x. Difficult to know the right move without having them in your room, so I have ordered one T5x to start with (coming later today) and then if it sounds good I will try and add another (if I can find a space for another). Alternatively if the T5x doesn't make any difference I might return it and get a T7x and then in the distant future when I have saved up then look to get another. Gah its all a bit of a leap :)
Hi Nemo, I am planning to setup a 3D subwoofer set up with 4 REL subs as - 1. 1 REL T/7x for Center channel - using High Level Input only 2. 1 REL T/7x for dedicated Rear surrounds - using High Level Input and LFE (one .1 sub out from AVR) 3. 2 REL T/9xs, one for Left and one for Right Mains - using High Level Input and LFE (other .1 sub out from AVR using a Y splitter to 2 subs). These speakers and subs (without LFE) will also be used for 2 channel listening. Do you see any issues with this 4 sub setup? Are the REL models I chose apt for this setup? Question on sub for surrounds. I am planning to do a 7.2.4 setup. How can I connect all my surround channels (4 surrounds and/or 4 atmos) to the high level input of the surround sub.
Hey Madan, to get the most accurate and helpful information I recommend you speak to REL directly regarding your plans. They have a lot more experience setting up systems like this and can give you much better advice and may even recommend something different in certain places. You'll be spending good money on this so I think it's best to make sure it's perfect!
@@whitecrowuk575 I did a completely different setup with 5 REL T9Xs in a 7.2.4 setup High level connections, using Speakon cables 1. 1 REL T9X with Left channel 2. 1 REL T9X with Right channel 3. 1 REL T9X with center channel 4. 1 REL T9X with side surround speakers 5. 1 REL T9X with rear surrounds speakers 2 LFEs / Subouts from AVR First subout using a Y splitter to the 2 T9Xs that are connected to Left and right second subout using 2 Y splitters to the 3 T9Xs that are connected to the Center, side and rear surrounds. This way I am getting the most out of all the 5 RELs all 7 channel speakers enhacements + 2 LFEs It is a very musical sounding Home theater set-up.
@@madandevarenti4212 do you recon is there any benefit for cinema in driving speakers full range rather than having crossover and feeding it via LFE to subwoofers?
@@whitecrowuk575 Yes, they have to be driven full range to take advantage of the speakon connectors and I did notice a lot of difference. I also play them as 2 channel for music from the same AVR and there too they perform great.
I believe in it, it's a very real thing, it can be measured and has been measured many times in the car audio industry. How much break in depends on the driver, anywhere from 2-20 hours should be sufficient for most subs. Subs with lighter moving mass like a T7X should be done breaking within just a few hours. Heavier & stiffer suspensions like those found on a JL, SVS, or Arendal will need closer to 20. Listen to music with heavy bass, watch some movies. Not at max volume but you want to push the damn thing a bit. For most users should be finished with break-in within the first 2-4 weeks.
my room is 12ft vs 13ft. I need to buy a premium sub for both movie and music. l was thinking between REL T7/9X or svs sb 3000 or HSU VTF TN1 or Rythmik FV 15 HP. Any suggestion?
can you hop in my free discord? Would be a lot easier to chat there since you have so many options and I have a few questions. First thing I noticed is it seems you are very flexible in terms of the size of the subwoofer? Link is in the description, make a post in purchase advice section plz.
Nemo, let me ask you this, you have played with the REL and the SVS SB3000... Frequencies are frequencies, a sub is a speaker, HT or Music, we are dealing with the same thing, identical frequencies. I have two of the SB3000 subs with the Ultra bookshelf speakers. My system is a mess right now and I need to attend to it. Would a pair of REL T5X sound better than, or darn close, to a dialed in pair of SB3000 subs? I can afford the RELs, but space is at a premium... I could fit the smaller RELs in, just wondering if it is even worth it seeing as I already have a much acclaimed sub. Your thoughts having heard both? And granted, rooms, space, materials in the room, etc, I totally understand that aspect to any sound either would or can produce. Thanks for your time.
it depends what "sounds better" means to you. SB3000 absolutely is among the best subwoofers if it suits your taste. I can't really tell you what your taste is but I did make a video to help with that: th-cam.com/video/rEz03XkcslI/w-d-xo.html
I like how you compare SPL/SQ and different subs for different uses. Now your videos make me realise i am a SQ guy with a multi setup different sets of speakers for theater and music, but with music priority. so i am waiting for the day REL makes a sub with SVS mobile app to easily change presets
Hey thanks for the kind words. REL doesn't use any DSP in any of their designs. To ask REL to use a cell phone app is asking them to change their entire approach to subwoofer design so it will most likely never happen :(. Their more expensive models do come with a pretty cool remote control though :).
Damn Nemo you sure know how to sell the rel :D i still have to wait until Christmas to buy the ht1205. Do you have some suggestions for me ? how should i connect the REL ht1205 if i buy it in the future? Love your Videos !
Hey Ed, it's really straight forward, keep the frequency at 9 o'clock or slightly under, choose your phase (i talked about this more in my subwoofer setup video) and then set the volume, that's it :)
@@NemoPropaganda Oh nice :) But which subwoofer/rca cable would you recommend ? Because i heard that people say that a chaep cable can sound really bad or have a "hum" at any volume.
@@rayking507 oh yeah, it's a great sub and the larger 12" driver will certainly give it an edge for deep bass & extension. I view the HT1205 as a hidden gem, it doesn't get as much love as the T/X range but it seriously good!
I am so looking forward to doing the review of the tenants subwoofer my room is about the same size as yours and I’m almost tempted to go after the T5 but I am very interested in the 10 inch that you are describing in the video your videos are awesome buddy keep up the good work
Can I connect a high-level subwoofer without speakers? Will it harm the subwoofer or amplifier? I want to buy a subwoofer on the secondary market, but there is no way to listen with speakers, there is only an amplifier.
I need help on why I need 2 subs vs 1 sub, my current sub is a Def tech supercube 4000, now they dont sell them anymore. Now Im thinking of a rel t7x 1) will it be bad to mix subs, 2) why 2 ? Thxs for help. Room specs 10ft cealings, about 20ft x 24ft z shaped room. My avr is Yamaha aventage 3050, bi amped 250watts feed 2 fronts klipsch rp 280s eq all low end to sub fronts only play high n mids.
Hey Rudy, you have 4 8" woofers in your towers, let them play some bass before you decide on a subwoofer, I'd let those bad boys run full range! Also it's what REL recommends :D As far as mixing subs it can be done but the results is usually a sacrifice so I don't recommend it for music but it's common and okay for movies. Like a small sub handeling mid bass and then an low end SPL monster for the rumble. I think T7X is too small for the towers/room you have and would instead go for the HT-1205.
oh nice, I have the Minuet Supreme Plus also, it's a great little speaker! I think the T5X would be a very nice upgrade as the PDR is rather old and a ported sub so the PDR is probably louder but you will most likely have a big quality improvement going to the T5X.
Just subscribed, great channel!!! I have a room similar in size to yours, I have Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers. I am torn between a pair of T5x or 1 T7x. Space is tight in the room. Thoughts?
Hey Rock, welcome aboard!! I really loved my pair of T5X and I also love using a single T7X. Both are fantastic so I suggest choosing the option that is best for your living environment as it's a home first. If you can pull off the dual T5X that would get my vote but if you can better accommodate a single T7X that's still a fantastic subwoofer.
I’ve been considering the Rel T7X OR T9X for a while now. I’m also looking at the Marantz model 30. It’s strange to consider going to a Class D amp and at the same time getting a class ab subwoofer. Seems like everything is reversed lol.
@@NemoPropaganda yep I’ve heard this. It seems like the biggest issue when pairing the two is the class d amp not having a true ground. Rel says this can be solved by hooking up and rca from the preout to the lfe input (not to use the input but just to act as a ground). In the case of the Marantz, I believe it has a place for the ground right on the back of it which would work perfect. Regardless if I were to go this route I would definitely check with them first just in case. Thanks for the lookout though!
@@piotrkonieczynski I’m really conflicted between the model 30 and the Ruby. With the 30 I would get the matching SACD 30N. With the Ruby I would probably get the NA6006. I’m conflicted between the better amp or the better digital source
@@mattolsziewski7164 dacs streamers will always change. Get the foundations right. Ruby if you still can buy it is the way to go. Is better made than 30 and is limited by last references by Ken.
@@MrEvhel83 I think it's like $1800+ for US customers, I can't find pricing anywhere though, I don't know if they even still make it but at that price I'd just go for the REL T9X or Rythmik F12SE :).
Recently discovered you Nemo big fan now great vids. Have you reviewed the monolith 10THX and if so please put a link I’m interested in your thoughts of it up against the svs sb1000pro and rsl speedwoofer 10s. I have the iato vx stack with elac debut 6.2 in an apartment medium size looking for some low end although the 6.2s do a good job. 70 music 30 movie. Thanks in advance I’ve learnt more from your channel than many others. 👍
hey whats up hobitsis, nah I havn't reviewed the monolith. It's a big ported subwoofer so it'll be great for movies and just okay for music. The only ported subwoofers I recommend for mixed systems that have a heavy emphasis on music are the Rythmik FVX12, Emotiva RS11, and RSL Speedwoofer in that order. If you're looking to just add some bass without taking up too much space in an apartment and without compromising your music listening I'd look at something smaller like the REL HT-1003, SVS SB-1000 Pro, Rythmik L12, etc...
Hi Nemo Propaganda....can I rack your brains on which rel to choose? The 5x or the 7x ? My room is small, about 10 feet wide and 12 feet length and I listen mainly to acoustic music but also rock. Would the 7x be an overkill? Would the 5x not be enough? I would prefer to get one sub not a dual. And my main speakers are a pair of Magnepan LRS's.Thanks mate.
Rel T7X or Rel HT1003 MKII in 18 meters square room only for music in 2.1 music system? They need to improve woofer of B&W 703 S3 towers with Marantz 40N amplifier. Dont wanna to shake room just need to improve sound to get more air and open sound but not to kill mids and higs of B&W. Live in apartment and dont wanna angry neighbours and dont like woofer that punch hard and dominate. What you will choose? Any help will be good :) Dont have opportunity to hear them in person. And forget to say need them for rock, hard & heavy music listening.
bass by its very nature can disturb neighbors regardless of what subwoofer you use, how much bass you produce will determine how much your neighbor is disturbed. As far as which sub, I like both for different reasons, the 1003 will extend lower but the T7X will have a little more fidelity. Both are great subs and the same physical size overall.
Long time listener, I’m about to get a home theater system, my room is 16x49 with 9 ft ceilings, I’m now thinking dual T7x or T5x, my receiver will likely be Onkyo TX RZ50 with an Emotiva Bas X 3 channel amplifier, what should I do? Dual T5x or T7x?? Thanks in advance
@@NemoPropaganda I’ve narrowed them down to Kef q950’s for front towers and q650 for center channels or the Kefr3’s for front channels and Kef R2c for center channel, not sure what I’m looking at for surround and back channels, if you got any suggestions for my speaker selection I’m all ears on those too
Hey! Give me some guidance please :) Im in a 4.4mx4.4 loungeroom open to the side with dining and kitchen to the right. Im running Focal Aria 926 fronts. I listen mostly to movies and another variable I live in a townhouse So I am worried about annoying the neighbours so I cant listen near referance. Do I run a couple t5x's or a T7x or a couple HT1003's? And should I run them Arias as large? Thanks :)) Ps i subbed
Yes run the Aria as large. My advice is get whatever sub you want. You can always turn it down if the neighbors complain or just turn the sub off after 9pm to avoid any complaints. I know people with 18" subs in apartments :).
Nemo, for strictly music with a 2 channel set up, in a room about your size, a pair of T5x or pair of the T7x? I already have a pair of the SVS SB3000, which are fantastic, but not as musical as I would like. The T5x would be much more affordable, and the smaller footprint is needed in my already crowded room. I would be using the subs with bookshelf speakers, no real room for towers. I'm looking for SQ, I don't want to hear the subs, if you know what I mean? I would be pairing with a Schiit Freya, and Gungnir DAC along with the XTZ A2-400 amp. Oh, I have wood floors, down firing woofer and all... Would the T5x, a pair, work some magic for me in regards to using strictly for music? Rock, country, classic rock, etc. Not too heavy into the heavy bass stuff, but so like the Beauty Boys... ;-)
Hey Michael so yes I think either pair 5x or 7x would sound fantastic but it will be important to not expect the 5x to bring the pain an SB3000 can bring :). While the 7x is better the 5x is still outstanding and substantially cheaper in pairs so it will just come down to how much you want to spend and I wouldn't fault you if you prefer to save $840 and go for the 5x pair.
@@NemoPropaganda Funny too, I went to the REL website and did the "Which Subwoofer" thing. And I plugged in a comparable speaker to what I have, did the medium size room, and it recommend the tiny Tzero sub? What do you think about that recommendation from their fitting bot? Strictly music is what I am looking for, as I have no intentions of getting rid of the SB3000s...
@@michaelwright1602 I will have a Tzero review sample soon but I have not heard one yet so I cannot say. I can tell you that from my conversations with REL they did say if someone is considering using a Tzero in pairs they should instead buy a single 5x or 7x and that Tzero was made for small room stereo, space restrictions, or small speaker reinforcement for theater like pairing a Tzero with a center channel or surround speaker. Since you are looking at a pair and have space for a pair I would stick to your original 5x or 7x idea.
Hey Nemo, my vinyl collection is strictly 90's hiphop, listening room similar size to yours except 10foot ceilings, its a corner room that intersects 2 hallways and a set of stairs and no doors!- nightmare! Lol - ANYWAY, I'm very much torn between Rels offering of 1205 or t9x. Is the 12" driver on the 1205 going to be better for hiphop? I'm a SQ guy at heart, but still want some definitive bass. Cheers for all the vids mate - excellent work!! 👍
Either one should be a nice upgrade but the 9x certainly takes the edge in terms of build quality and sound quality. While the 1205 has the larger driver and can play louder at the absolutely limit I don't think that will be a major factor for music listening. It's a tough call between the two. Both can pound, the 1205 can pound a little harder and a little lower while the 9x takes a strong edge in overall SQ so it just depends which aspect is more important to you. I would honestly just pick the one you like the aesthetics of and try it out, you can always return it for the other one if it's not a good match and I'd start with the T9X. Also if possible try to demo them, A lot of dealers have them available.
@@lachlanbanks-smith1106 nice dude! we have a free discord, links are in the newer videos if you want to join, I'd be curious how it goes for you and your experience could help others.
Hey Sutra, that's a tough decision, I like both a lot but would maybe lean towards a single 7x with plans to add a second one within a year or so. We don't have to do this all overnight, most great systems are built over years :). The pair of 5x is awesome too though so you really can go either way.
@@NemoPropaganda the main REL website recommends the T7x with the Revel F35 speakers and the T5x with some other speakers. Took me a while to figure out between the HT series or the Tx, even though about 50% will be used for home theatre. But then I figured the Tx will also work better overall, including HT. Only it does not extend as low as the HT....which may not be that bad, I guess!
@@sutraleticsssutraleticss5001 yeah, the thing for me is I have heard both and I think most people will be happy with either one so it's hard to really recommend one over the other. I think you'll be happy either way but a single or pair of T7x would be awesome for sure!
First of, great videos, so much info and common sense! The only thing i feel is confusing.. roomsizes. What is a ”small/medium/big room”? I mean, 4x6 meters, is that small or medium etc
@@NemoPropaganda thank you for your reply! Would you choose the ht1003 or t5x for rooms in that ballpark? I use it for both ”critical” listening and movies
it's very challenging to pick something for someone without knowing their goals, listening habits, or budget, I'm happy to help push you in the right direction once you've narrowed down your options to 2 or 3 subs but I can't pick one for you.
Hi Zoralo, I don't think it makes sense to compare the T5X to something that is more than 3x it's price. You could buy a pair of T5X and still save $800 vs a single DB4S. The DB4S is grossly overpriced and anyone considering a DB4S should instead look to the REL T9X which is cheaper and better.
@@Zoralovsky for sure! B&W make great subwoofers but they exaggerate the watts and extension and charge more! T9X has world class fidelity. If you watch my T7X video I talk about al 3 of them in that video :)
Def the most underrated TH-cam Audio Channel. Bro, you’re the only guy who gets SPL vs SQL…surprising how few people get this point. As for the subs, I’m all about the Rel t9x’s because of my larger listening space
Nice dude, I wish I had a bigger space but where I live if you want a big living room you have to pony up around $1.5 million :/ and then there are extra taxes we have to pay in addition to property tax (around .77% of the homes value).
He’s the only one that ever talks about SQL. Everyone else just talks about SPL, 2000W and 13Hz 😅
@@cocoj3194 ahahaha, thank you dude!! Yeah everyone on the forums just want CEA data, what's the SPL at 15hz, like imagine if we treated speakers this way, like we literally just bought speakers because they could do 120dB at 18khz lol
Nemo is the best, hands down.
@@NemoPropaganda Steve Guttenberg recently reviewed the T5/x and he too talked about how textured and detailed the bass produced by the T5/x is.
rel customer here. But one thing that is 100% required is DSP of the low frequencies. I guarantee you that 99% of the people watching this have awful standing waves in their rooms around 50Hz that no matter where they place their sub it will never disappear. Cutting off frequencies from mains can work, but if you just use REW and proper EQ it is absolute game changer. Before DSPing my sub I couldn't hear the lowest freq because of 55Hz 10db peak from my room, now everything sounds balanced and magical. If your source is PC you can even do that for free with APO EQ app. Big up to you.
P.S. I have the 1003 I live in appartment and it is sitting few inches away from my butt. I think it is the one to recommend for bang per buck, would love to hear how it is vs speedwoofer and sb1000
Agreed 100%, EQing with a calibration mic will improve bass and subbass performance more than most people can imagine. I had a 15dB peak at 60 Hz, horrid. REW + ApoEQ are really not rocket science and it's all free.
@@TheSecondMaker yeah, many people think that to do room corrections they need crappy minidsp thingy. I didn't want to introduce this gadget to my audio chain and APO EQ works great. I am sure with the proper DSP skills you can get 4 massive subs in small room to sound amazing.
I don't think 99% of people have standing waves but I agree some rooms have big problems. I have a small spike around 40hz but I like it :). I've thought about doing a dsp but like you said I don't want to add that box into my system. Also you are correct, DSP can work wonders in small rooms, my friend had dual PB16 and dual SB3000 in a small theater room and it sounded amazing! He has since changed to dual Rythmik F18 and G25 and it still sounds incredible. The time alignment that DSP helps with care really make a big difference in complex multichannel setups. If I could find a dsp that was for bass only and didn't affect anything above say 100hz I would be curious to play with it but at the same time I don't want to introduce more DA conversions.
@@NemoPropaganda you can configure the dsp to touch only the low freq. Lets say you have Sub out on your stereo amp - just attach RCA to minidsp and then you have four different RCA outs to different subs all with seperate options. I am also delaying my purchase of minidsp hd but at some point it is going to be inevitable. But good mic to do REW sweep of your room is super super helpful, you will be surprised what happens below 120Hz since the acoustic treatment barely has any effect on these freqs.
I purchased the original REL Strata sub over 25 years ago and it's still going strong. It was an expensive purchase back then but now I consider it the best value audio buy that I have ever made.
that is so cool to hear, as a younger audio hobbyist sometimes I wonder if anything I own currently will stay with me for the long-haul.
Same here, I purchased two and both are going strong. Thinking of replacing them but Not sure if it’s with it as they are still so awesome.
At the end of the day, I just can’t move away from Rel. My past experience and these reviews tell me everything I need to know why I’m an SQ guy first. Keep up the great work!
You're lucky you know what you like and it sounds like you have what you like :).
Great to see this and confirm my thoughts and findings. I demoed the tx9 amd tx7 in a room maybe 7 x 13m. I listened for over 2 hours. I have a smaller room, 3.5 x 7.2m and i have neighbours below me that i was concerned with. With the tx9 gain set to about 6 clciks , i found to get the same spl from the tx7 it was set to around 12 clicks. I also noticdd that at similat spls, the tx9's dwon firing passive radiator was producing way more output than the 7, althoigh at the listening position, you wouldnt be able to tell this. It was a striking difference when putting your ear up to the sub tho, and this is what made me nervous aboit getting the 9, and annoying my neighbours, and therefore never being able to use the sub properly. I also felt like you Nemo, that an amp or sub should be turned up on the volume dial a half decent amoint in order to really open it up and get the unit working in its sweet spot. So i decided for my smaller room with neighbours to go with the x7. And im.so glad i did!. I have the gain set at 11 clicks and the room gain in the smaller room meant that i noticed much more bass at this level than i did in the larger room, and it seems to go deeper. (I presume the lower frequencies are given a boost by the room).
I love this sub!
Every piece of music and album sounds better, and almost every piece of music has significantly more information in it than i knew ever existed. Its just a shame i had to wait this long to get my first sub (finances allowed now). I was considering jl audio and Arendal. Im glad i went with the rel. It sounds amazing. I use it for hifi only and is the main reason i have it, although im sure I'll get it put through the tv audio soon. Thanks rel! And thanks Nemo for the vids..... so happy with it.
that's awesome Roger, I'm happy it was such a positive experience for you :).
I fretted between tzero and t5x for a long time. Went for a pair of tzeros when they went on sale. During the break-in (100% compulsory) all my concerns about them not being enough were dispelled. I wanted a pair for 2 channel listening but I did not want to disturb my upstairs neighbors. Tzeros integrates well and brought warmth and modest texture to my speakers. It would be interesting to get nemo’s take for sure.
james derby i also went for zeros. because i thought the small drivers would integrate perfectly with the tiny mid/bass drivers of my main speakers. not tried the bigger models
These videos are so good. Most reviews are either super boring with no real value, full of Class D level comedy, or completely disingenuous, paid for, and deejayed by snobs. This channel is all killer, no filler.
thank's bro!
@@NemoPropaganda wouldn't say it if it wasn't so!
You're a great down-to-earth speakers lecturer thank you. Sometime in life there are some who wouldn't appreciate what they've gotten as a blessing until someone tells them directly or indirectly. . .and I'm one of those.
You're right the sb3k was an over-kill for your room size. Yours and mine are nearly similar ( mine at 10ft x 13ft with 8ft 6inch high). I had the sb1k at 300 watts which was enough but due to greed for more power I've upgraded to sb3k which is an over-killer. Again greed had me wanting to upgrade to sb4k in the same small room but realised would be a sheer waste of money plus it's too big and very heavy and I might not even increase volume for fear of neighbours underneath my wooden floor and additional two neighbours to two sides of my walls. So I did a runner after physically viewing the sb4k at my local hifi store. The spouse acceptancy factor is working against my passion too.
Hey Rov, thank you for the kind words and I enjoyed reading your story, I could totally picture it :)
Nemo is a good guy! 🇺🇦🇺🇸🤜
Congrats Buddy! The company is showing your reviews in their distribution emails!! Bravo
that's awesome!! I still can't believe companies do that for my little channel :D
@@NemoPropaganda You worked very hard reviewing the whole line up almost!
@@HgOH16 this is the whole lineup lol, TZero is not a T/X sub :D
I'm a sound quality guy, people on AVS are going crazy about the new Monolith 13" and 16" one note boomboxes and I couldn't care less about them. I have my 2 REL Predators on order that I got for $1K each, can't wait to set them up and listen.
Yeah, a lot of people on the forums believe the old information like bass is non directional, or it's all the same you just need extension and SPL, if it measures good it sounds good, they don't realize or perhaps can't hear that bass like any frequency can have a refinement to it. The predators should be awesome, I have not checked them out personally (yet) but everyone who owns one has been thoroughly impressed.
Rel is the most overrated and overpriced subs on the market. Calling the monolith a one note boom box is just pure nonsense. Have you seen the distortion numbers on those subs? I guarantee you the distortion numbers on the rel are not even close to that monolith. Anyone that says a smaller driver is quicker than a larger driver can’t be taken seriously. Those drivers are head and shoulders better than the rel. The rel predator has -6db point around 22hz. That overpriced sub will roll off in the high 20s. That is terrible for the money they cost. I have personally had or demoed the following subs hsu, rythmik, psa, jtr, svs, rel, Martin Logan, jl, and funk. Guess which one was my least favorite by a long shot.
@@Ctripp2448 Sounds like you're only into charts and graphs. 2 subwoofers can have the same exact response on a frequency response graph yet sound completely different. I know from experience in my room. One might have a deeper sound, one might be tighter etc. If you're only into SPL then yeah get a Monolith or overpriced SVS.
@@Ctripp2448 you're certainly entitled to have your opinion and personal taste, it sounds like you're an SPL customer, no surprise then you will not like REL. SPL customers like heavy bass, REL is not heavy bass. That doesn't mean it's overrated. This is like saying BMW Is overrated because you can feel the road too much while failing to realize that is by intentional design to feel connected to the road. It's not your to your taste, that's okay, but it is a lot of other peoples taste.
@@Slickman2006 did you read anything I said? I am into sound quality not spl. More headroom allows you to lower distortion which increases sound quality. Do you know how much music and movie material there is under 30 hz?? Don’t be the typical fanboy of a brand that falls for a bunch of marketing nonsense. Research and go listen to as many high quality subs you can. I have done that with multiple different brands, measured and hours and hours of listening. Rel is wayyyy overpriced for the performance period. Not my opinion it is a fact
My REL SHO/5 is amazing. I was thing about getting a few of them and run 6 of them lol. Thank you for such honest reviews. You get what you pay for. Thank you Nemo
Glad you like them! 6 would be wild!!!!
These are so beautiful, perfect audio jewelry. Happy you got to review the whole line and bring it to us. Well done bro!
Got my first rel yesterday (t7x pair) in white after watching this video and being convinced to go with the blind purchase. First piece of audio gear that absolutely exceeded my expectations immediately. Never experienced this before. Usually have a period of doubting a new purchase but these are not in that category. If you don't like these it's possible that... YOU DIED 😉
hell yeah dude, I'm glad you dig them as much as I do :).
My first Rel was a TZero MKIII ($340 shipped, Ebay ). Hooked it up my listening room (14L x 9W x 8H) with a pair of Elac DBR62 and I couldn't believe how a 6.5" woofer can produce such amazing bass. It extended the speaker down more than the already great bass from the DBR. It also sounded effortless. So I got hooked on Rel subs. If a TZero can produce something so amazing and seeing that it's smaller than even one DBR speaker (in height mostly), I jumped on an opportunity to pick up the Rel S/5 for half price for my bday this summer. It was massive and I placed that in my room. Four Tzeros can fit into one S/5.
In the room, it sounded maybe a little bit better than the TZero but not by much. Maybe just a tad deeper. It can definitely play way louder but for a balanced sound, the volume was at 2 clicks. I would say TZero is 95% of the bass I needed in my room compared to the S/5. Yea, there is such thing as too much bass for one room. But when I brought the S/5 down to the living room (19' x 16'W x 8'H) and compared it to the TZero there, it was no contest. TZero got destroyed. So now, the S/5 is a theater sub though it was made to do both duties very well.
Also just ordered a T7i (ebay of course) and will get to see how that compares to the TZero tomorrow.
Nice! Good think you had a bigger room to put it in, 2 clicks up is definitely too much subwoofer for the room :). Good job realizing that on your own!
Please let me now , absolut to get either t5x or t7x . I have dbr 62 in a room 5m * 6meters
@@miclinda256 I was going to recommend Rel's sub pairing website but it looks like they're recommending the TZero MKIIIs for the DBR62. I can attest to that the TZero sound pretty good with the DBR62 actually in my room.
I have a single T7i in my room now and I only need about 10 clicks (volume @ 1/3) for my rooms size of 125 SF (11.5 sm) to mix into my Triangle Titus. I think for my DBR62, I would need a bit less because the DBR is less sensitive so I'm already cranking the amp more. Since I use High Level connection, I need to bring the volume down on the sub when the amp is more cranked.
I would recommend the T7x's. Your room is more than double the size of mine and having the T7x will give you more headroom and pair better if you decide to upgrade your speakers down the line. You know how this hobby goes. But given the performance of the TZero, I think the T5x would work fine too.
@@t0nyxgq thank you! So much for your info👍
Just found your channel and you give fantastic advice and insight that most reviewers don’t.
Welcome aboard!
Best TH-cam channel since you understand spl vs sql
I am very curious how the budget ht 1003 would compare to this models for stereo systems. I really like how you take into account the differences and most suitable use of all these really good products. That's exactly what we need to see, not just advertisement for products as its seen often.
Me too! I'll review one at some point for sure.
I'm days away from pulling the trigger on dual t7x setup so I was pumped to see you review these. I wish you had an affiliate link but nevertheless I understand your reasons for not doing all of that. I'm going to order from rel store and will be sure to mention you. I've mostly used your personal experience with rel to narrow down my decision.
Lastly, Rhythmik needs to get you some fm8 subs. I see they are backordered til November on their site. Maybe that will be something I'll try in the future but I can't go on much longer without hearing a dual rel setup
Do it soon if you can, they're on sale through the end of October!! Yeah I want to check out another Rythmik sub but as you said there are industry wide stock issues at the moment so it doesn't really make sense.
@@NemoPropaganda yeah saw a week or so ago that t7x are $1000 on sale.. that's helping the decision now it's black or white... black are sold out on rel Amazon site but white show available. Might be what I end up with
@@erics.4113 White with the grill off is beautiful while I prefer the black with the grill on, both are really good looking. Just know the white isn't like a frost snow white, it has a slight cream to it. You can kind of see it in the video compared to my S400 MKII.
@@NemoPropaganda the Buchardt are like white white then? I do like the look of both colors on the rel but maybe I'll just go with white to be a little different. No shortage of black cubes for subs. I really like the studded 3 piece wheel look on the black though. I'm considering a wild pair of custom tekton maybe purple or red or blue so with the white subs would look kinda different
@@erics.4113 I just don't understand why tekton doesn't flush mount the drivers, it makes me crazy!!!!! I do want to check out a pair one day though.
My friend, I wanted to let you know I just got the 1003 and use it to add bass to my center channel. Lemme tell you, it was a perfect choice. I have the 1205 as my regular sub, but that 10 incher filled in that area that the center channel doesn't normally cover. It's like REL knows what you need before you do. Also have a T9/i hooked up to my stereo system. Love it! A year ago I didn't have any Rel. Now I own 3. Great reviews. Thank you.
that's awesome, sounds like you have more than one great system!
So after your review of the t/5x I bought one. I wanted one a couple of years ago, but life happens and I had to use my money on other things. Anyway after I bought them I asked Rel what they suggested and they told me it would be a great match. But if I wanted to upgrade I should buy one t/7x instead of two t/5x. Probably because it's a small room but with a really high sloped ceiling (8,5x14x15). So probably because of placing issues. Anyway after this review I started to have doubts. Luckily I could return the t/5x and now I have a t/7x coming to my house. My wallet is crying. But I listened to the t/5x and will know for certain which one I like more. Will give an update when I can compare them. Thank you for all the videos it really helped me to make a informed decision.
how did it turn out?
@@NemoPropaganda still waiting for delivery, but I'm eager to put them to the test
@@NemoPropaganda Okey I got the T/7x in the mail last monday. I didn't do any critical listening yet, I hope to that this weekend. But my first reaction is: impressive! I know now clearly that for my room the T/5x was not enough, because of the really high ceiling I couldn't get great bass pressure. With the T/7x I definitely can! Also integration is much better. With the T/5x I could hear where the sub-bass came from, with the T/7x that is definitely less apparent. I do think that's because the T/5x uses only a downfiring woofer where the T/7x does not (or not only). Because of the high ceiling a down-firing woofer would probably be less optimal. I also notice much more texture, as you have said. All in all this is a much better fit for my room. Even with a cheap iotavx SA3 amp I feel like I have a totally new system. Also I have the T/7x set at 20 clicks and it's not overpowering at all, where I had the T/5x at almost 35 clicks. Of couse I still need to listen crictically so do take my first impression as that a first impression.
@@MrBouncingDeath Awesome!!! Yeah different firing orientation like down firing or side firing can be hit or miss depending on the room. I'm glad the 7x is a win so far for you. It really is impressive what it can do for how small it is.
loved your review, as always!! and so nice to see such a knowledgeable reviewer as you accepting you didn't know ALL about the subwoofer/company you were reviewing. that's absolutely refreshing! no ego! just wonderful passionate knowledge and experience you are sharing with all of us! thanks! ...and man, looking into buying a rel soooooon and integrate it withy my Q acoustics concept 40 speakers. awesome!
in fairness I actually have a pretty big ego but I certainly appreciate the compliments and I'm happy you enjoyed the video bro!
This evening (I live in the Netherlands) I have watched probably 20 videos about subwoofers on your channel that have helped me tremendously. My compliments on your clear explanations and presentation!
Let me state up front that I am a real SQ guy, so in terms of brand it will be a Rel.
My room is 10 x 18ft by 7.5ft ceiling. My setup is full Audio Note system, so a OTO 2x10w tube-amp paired with AN-J LX hemp high effecienty speakers. Audio Note Dac3.1x/II yes also tubes in here. The amp and speakers are a match made in heaven, but since I removed my couch I have low end problems.
The system although its neutral, it’s sounds rich, live and full of emoticon. So every track sounds completely different. (Mostly I associate neutral systems with cold tonality, extreme resolution and analytical which I don’t like. But that’s another story haha.
But the disadvantage of high effecienty speakers is the lack of authority in the lows. Previously I was barely satisfied with the low, but since the sofa with footstool has made way for a recliner the bass is gone. Huge dip at 40hz and I played two days again on speaker and the mlp. But they cant fill the room anymore. Did some simple measurements to.
I want to benifit from all the audiophile aspects like, increase in soundstage, three dimensionality, dark background. I love warm tonality and texture to.
But I think it’s also cool to have sometimes quite some thump when playing louder. Which makes the choice more difficult.
So im not sure to go with dual T5X or one T7X?
(If you need more background information for a more accurate reply, don't hesitate to ask me)
Hi Nick, thank you for the kind words. It's hard to say if you will be happy with 2 T5X or 1 T7X because bass can be very personal How much bass is "enough" is the same with any other aspect of sound. Some people (like me) prefer lots of bass, even more than is accurate while others prefer just a tiny amount. My suggestion is to demo the subwoofers if possible at a local dealer.
@@NemoPropaganda you said in one of your reviews dual subs will give more of the audiophile qualities like increase of soundstage, 3D and darker background.
Might a good placed T7x perhaps in the middle behind the rig will equally add the above mentioned qualities or are the duals always better at this?
Do the dual T5X’s have the same grunt and deep bottom of on T7X?
@@nicktube3904 I have said that yes, I have also said I almost always prefer to have 1 item that is better versus 2 that are not as good so like many people I too am full of internal conflict. I think a pair of T5X is certainly the safest option.
As someone who's looking at a REL sub, this video was super helpful and informative! Thanks a ton! Had been looking to go T/9x as a buy once, cry once mindset. Your note of consideration for room size really has me thinking of the T/7x for a better sound.
happy you found it helpful, I suggest you reach out to REL to make sure you get the best size. They're really good with that.
How is the T5X/T7X compare with Rhythmic L12 for small room (8x8ft) and music only?
That's a really small room, I would go T5X as anything larger might overload the room.
The 2 REL subs that I own are the T/Zero MKIII and the HT/1003.
The T/Zero is in a desktop system paired with the Emotiva Airmotiv B1+ speakers. I have a crossover box on the output from my DAC. The low pass output goes the Tzero low level input. The high pass goes to the amp, to which the B1+ are connected. I have the crossover set at 65 Hz. Leaving both the speakers and the sub to do what they are really good at. DAC: Topping D90;
Cross over: Rolls SX45; Integrated amp: Keces E40.
The HT1003 is in my front system connected to Vanatoo Transparent Zero (T0) powered speakers. An active cross over network is engaged when a sub is connected to these speakers. 120Hz (shelved DSP mode) and 80Hz (flat DSP mode) are the x-over options. Mine are set at 80Hz. I also have the limiters disabled; download and read the manual, it's worth the time. The T0 speakers and the HT1003 are an awesome combination and a great value. An external DAC is not needed. I actually recommend not using and external and instead using digital input, optical specifically, for the best results. I also use a Xduoo XQ-50 Pro bluetooth receiver. The bluetooth in the T0 is pretty basic. I can use LDAC protocol with the XQ-50 to receive the signal and convert it to optical to feed the T0.
Vanatoo speakers are great value and well reviewed on TH-cam. However I would love to see a review of them on this channel. The active sub crossover is an under rated feature and the other reviewers don't give it the attention it deserves. The speakers are more efficient with the crossover engaged since they don't have drive the low frequencies. It would be great to see a Nemo review testing the crossover with the various subs in the collection. Vanatoo also makes the Transparent One Encore (T1E). T1E has a 5.25" driver vs a 4" driver on the T0. The inputs on the T1E are higher spec'd and include coax (which the T0 does not have). The T1E also has a cherry finish as an option.
Keith! Long time man, how ya been? Are you in the discord? It's free.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks for the shout out. It's been a while since TH-cam suggested one of your videos. They need an option to give subscribed channels priority in the suggestions. I just created an account and joined your discord channel.
@@keithjohnson2863 Nice bro!! Always happy to see someone join but especially happy when it's someone I remember from the earlier days :)
Loved the vid. I have a pair of the T7X myself and I just love them. So seemless and natural sounding
Hi! Thanks for your review. It is very helpful. For you, in room 22 m2. What model is better for pairing a Kef LS50 Meta, T5x or T7x? I like it buy a pair to improve my system.
please contact the seller or manufacturer for room size recommendations. They have more experience with various rooms than I do.
I had a T9x for a time, and was underwhelmed personally. I ended up returning it.
no sub is a perfect fit for everyone so nothing wrong with that.
Love this Tx summary format. Great vid
thank you! I enjoyed making it this way so I'm glad you guys enjoyed it also!
Best REL Sub review as always. Thanks again. You made some good points about the need for right fit for T7x and T9x in different size rooms. I think My Pair of T9x might be too big. My room is 18 wide by 24 deep but I listen from 10-12 feet away. Boy the two T9x really put out a lot bass/SPL. Im at 10 clicks gain per side L/R to make it sound good with music. Movies 15 clicks.
I think your room could go either way but since you do movies too I think you made the right choice! If it's overloading the room a little bit you can space them out from the walls an inch or two, that should help them have a more natural (less forced) response.
@@NemoPropaganda Ok, thanks for your insights. Great idea on moving from wall its about 1 ft from wall now. I may also add acoustic treatments, but may not do much for bass. Thanks!
Nemo, excellent review as always. Thank you!
Got an idea. Ask for both the Tzero and HT 1003 at the same time. Use the Tzero as a midbass driver and HT for the last octave. I think the combo might compete with the T9x.
That certainly would be interesting, they're both small so I'm not opposed to doing that actually. I'll talk to REL and see what they think about it. If it works well it could be a cool addition for existing Tzero owners looking for a little more kick!
I really enjoyed my time with the T7x. The build on it alone is top notch. Awesome Review Nemo!
Hey thank's man! Btw I did some shit with my car audio setup and got it in a good spot finally. The memphis mojo 8" was the final winner!! Maybe I went a little crazy and had 2 custom boxes built (1 ported, 1 sealed) and ordered a second driver so I can switch between ported and sealed based on my mood 🤣 I did the ported one tuned at 29hz, holy mother of god, it's not accurate by any means but she rumbles like hell!!!!
@@NemoPropaganda Hell Yea! I feel you on the ported and sealed Mood swings. I wanted to do the same thing for my car.
On another note I bought Two SVS Sb4000s for my home theatre. Spent a few days dialing it in. Having loads of fun.
@@ThujanK wooooo boy that's what I'm talking about!!! Has the the old 13 ultra been retired or did you perhaps move it to the back of the room?
@@NemoPropaganda I was going to buy another pb13 ultra, but I said screw it let's try something new so the PB13 got sold. The switch did make me appreciate how LOW the PB13 can get. My new setup is dual Sb4000, two bass shakers in the seating and a rsl speedwoofer nearfield behind the seating. Certainly does the trick for me! 🤣
@@ThujanK I so relate to the "might as well" thinking lol. That sounds like a killer setup honestly!! That RSL is tactile as hell so it's perfect for nearfield too!
I have wooden floors, should I put my TX7's on some type of base? Much respect and love from the Uk
unless your floor is very textured or dusty you should be fine. There is a thin layer of grippy material underneath the footer (assuming you have removed the clear plastic protective cover) that should grip most surfaces. Hard surfaces should always be cleaned before you put your subwoofer down as large amounts of dust may cause some slipping. Again make sure to remove the clear plastic cover on the footers, many people don't realize they're there and wonder why their subs move around, it's a thin clear plastic that peels right off.
I just came across your videos and all really helpful. I wanted to ask your thoughts ... REL T7X or the B&W ASW610 or 608 - Much more for music listening.
BW ASW series cannot compete with REL T/X series for sound quality. Go for TX if its in the budget. If not ASW is only good if you can buy used and cheap.
Just getting around to seeing this review bc I am looking at the T/7x. I loved your explanation regarding the difference between using the Tx series' high level input and using the HT series' low level input. But you can't use the low level input unless your integrated or preamp has a sub out and/or another variable pre out, right? Some cheap amps don't have that. The Tx series has both high level and low level inputs so you are covered either way. I like the Tx series for its flexibility in that regard.
How does the high level input work? Do you need a set of “speaker B” outputs on the amp? Or does it have a speaker pass through?
it comes with the cable, one end connects to the sub, the other end connects to the speaker outputs on the amplifier.
Hi! Great video! I have one question: how do you have connected the high level cable with the banana plugs in your receiver/amp???
I have spades on the end of my high level cable.
@@NemoPropaganda thanks for the quick answer! Sorry to keep asking but I’m not very experienced with cable management… so you connected the banana end of the high level cable to a spade connector/adapter and then that spade connector is attached to the banana plug from your speaker cable on the back of your receiver???
@@the_maxx31 the REL high level cable is terminated with barewire, you can just use it that way. I decided to get fancy and added spade terminals to the ends of mine and trimmed the cable to a shorter length. You don't have to do that though, just unscrew your banana terminals on the back of your amp, wrap the wire around the post, tighten it down, done, your REL sub is connected to your amp. Make sure to remember yellow & Red are both positive while black is negative aka ground.
@@NemoPropaganda thank you very much!
It's interesting that theoretically, passive radiator designs tend to have more group delay compared to ported enclosures and should therefore sound sloppier.
But most reviewers I've seen find PR subs more articulate.
I guess it's because PR subs allow for deeper tuning in small enclosures whereas "perfect" ported designs need much bigger boxes than people would be willing to buy.
Again, just guessing.
Love your video content Nemo. I purchased a REL Predator 1510 in large part due to your review a few months back. Thinking of upgrading my nearfield PC audio setup in a year or so, and therefore considering a pair of TX series. Keep up the awesome work mate.
thank you for the kind words. Excellent choice!!
Awesome content. In a 12x15 room would you recommend two t5x or one t7x. Mostly music with some ht. Currently have a set of small Klipsch the fives powered speakers.
Hi Ryan, thank you for the kind words, since you are between two subwoofers from the same company I would suggest you ask REL, they have a lot more experience with different room sizes than I do and give very good advice. But if you just want my opinion honestly I would be happy with either option and my room is 12x14 but since you listen to theater also why not just go for their HT1205? That will still sound good for music and give you a lot more output for theater.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks for the advice. I contacted REL as well and they also recommended the ht. I just prefer small sub pairs for how tight and accurate they are. It’s also easier for me to accommodate two smaller units vs one large one. Do you think the Svs micro is worth a try if I only use one vs two t5x. I know the sound quality isn’t as good but the price is compelling vs two REL. Again appreciate the help and keep up the totality awesome work your doing.
@@ryanswisher8652 The HT is tight and accurate, if the 1205 is too big, get a pair of 1003 instead. As far as SVS vs REL I made a video about that and you can find that here: th-cam.com/video/rEz03XkcslI/w-d-xo.html
You mentioned experience with passive radiators like on the 7 & 9 being sloppy . I was wondering if that was your experience with 3 way speakers too? I don't know that many speakers with them , the Klipsch Forte four I think . Just wondering if that was all around experience with some ? I know you don't feel that about these . I'm just asking questions trying to learn and about all of this the hobby has to deal with
Hi, this video is pretty old and my memory is hazy, can you time stamp the portion of the video you're referring to?
11.01@@NemoPropaganda
How do a pair of t7x pair with the Buchardt s400 mkii, in your room?
Have you tried placing a pair of subwoofers in a near field setup? To the right and left of the listening position, instead of next to the main speakers?
I find it amazing. Creates a much greater immersive bass and a lot of the room issues go away as you are near field to the subwoofers.
I have them right next to the speakers on the inside. I have tested them flanking my listening position and I do agree it was very good but it doesn't look good in my room like that so I keep them next to the speakers.
@@NemoPropaganda I thought that good speakers should be able to disappear 🤣
Thank you for details review! I’m considering one sub to pair with my kef ls50 wireless 2. My eyes now are on rel t7, svs 1000 pro and kc62 and I’m in to 90% music and 10% to movie. Which one you think will make a good setup? Thank you again!
Your answer is here :) th-cam.com/video/rEz03XkcslI/w-d-xo.html
Love your reviews. More excurtion gives more distortion, right? I am struggling to understand how a sub need to breathe. Small subs are sure easier to position correctly!
I won't pretend to be a driver engineer, I'm not familiar with the relationship between distortion and excrusion enough to speak on the subject. Indeed though it is very convenient moving around smaller subs :)
Great video!! I have on my system 2 S/812 for front left and right speakers connected both by hi level connector and LFE, for center channel an 7x in high level and for surround which do you recommend? An 7x or 5x? My system its an 7.4.2
Thank you in advance
since you have all REL subs I think it would be good for you to email them directly and get their opinion. I only do 2ch stereo myself so I don't have much experience with multi channel.
really good review! i have an ae1 active. how do i pair it with t7x? is it an active subwoofer or do i need an amplifier?
I don't know, I'm not familiar with that speaker.
it is an active subwoofer. you just need to split the signal at your source and than 1 goes to the acoustic energy and the other to your sub. I do not know what's your source, but if its a PC, you''ll need a dac, than rca OUT to the ae1 and to the subwoofer. if your source goes to the ae1 using the rca input in analog, you just need a Y splitter.
@@Antonio5559398thank you so much! the answer i needed! bless you man
Hmm… should I get a second Tzero mk3 or a signle T7x? 😅 I pair them with the Ls3/5a and those guys has quite a bump in the 100hz and I find the Tzero bleeding into the mids.
I only turn the crossover 2 clicks from the lowest point and this only adds to the sub bass and doesn’t add much to the kick drum punch.
I listen to heavy metal from bands like Epica, Dream Theater and SleepToken while my father prefers listening without the sub as he mainly listens to vocals.
1 t7x for sure is better than a pair of Tzero. But if you mostly listen to metal you may even prefer the fuller sound of the HT1003 MK2, try to demo one if possible.
Do you think I could pair an HT to a T9x? I’m thinking of adding the HT to the second sub channel so it comes on only when the home theatre is on.
Yes absolutely, the 1205 can extend lower so it will further reinforce the bottom end. I'd cross it over very low, like maybe all the way down or 30-40hz in your AVR if you have that option.
Thanks for your very informative videos.
What is your opinion on 2 channel listening for a room size 12x10x7 feet ? One T7x or two T5x ? My speakers are Harbeth M30.2. I prefer more quality sound than amount of base. I don’t play rock.
Hey Chandana, thank you for the question, our rooms are nearly identical. So either option will be enough bass in my opinion for that room and both will have outstanding SQ but the 7X takes the edge overall. I would start with 1 T7X, you can add another one later if you feel that you need it but I think the only reason to add a second T7X would be to have stereo bass as 1 should have plenty of output for your room.
@@NemoPropaganda
Thanks Nemo. I will start with a 1 T7x. I learned a lot about subwoofers from your videos and they are really good for people like me looking for a sub but not sure where to start. Thanks again.
@@weeragardens anytime brother, this hobby certainly can be overly complicated at times.
The M30.1 is listed on REL's page. The recommendation for the size of your room is 1 T7x or 2 T7x. The T5x is not recommended.
I also have the Buchardt s400mk2. In 13x18x8 room. Dermot at Rel suggested the T7x or T9x. He explained to me that while Buchardt claims 33hz the actual is probably 40-45. And the sub would add better base down low. Which combo of rel do you prefer with Buchardt? I’m purely music listening. Oh and I’m working with GIK getting my room acoustic correct.
if you're getting just 1 I'd go for the T9X.
I have a 2.1 setup with a pair of Buchardts running with a T9x, absolutely love it if you have gotten one yet.
I brought the REL Predator. I'm thinking about get the TX 7 as a secondary Sub what you think?
I'd see how you like the Predator on it's own first, no sense wasting money if it's perfect on it's own :). I did run the T5X pair with an HT1205 just for fun and it did sound incredible though so if you want to have some fun I'm sure it'll sound great but I wouldn't say it's needed.
Waiting for a Rel ht1003 very very curious and the t-zero. Review.
I just purchased a rel R218 and is in FedEx truck
Great video !! I'm considering the T7X or T9X. Currently have the Goldenear super XXL sub. Will this be a lateral move or better? Now the question is which one? Room is 15 x 17. Components Sonus Faber Sonetta III L&R, C1 center, 562 rear in wall speaker, Marantz AV 7706 processor and ATI 4005 amp. Your recommendation is? Thanks.
Hi Ed, it's important to remember your current XXL sub is $2500, fairly large, and weighs 82lbs! Certainly not the largest nor the heaviest but a good bit larger, heavier, and more expensive than even the largest of the T/X range by nearly double. If you are looking to outright replace your current subwoofer you'll need to consider something similar in size/weight if you want to have the same maximum SPL, from REL that would be something like the Predator 1508 or S/812. A pair of T9X would of course also be a very nice upgrade but it sounds like you're just asking about 1 sub.
@@NemoPropaganda - thanks for the quick response. It sounds like I should just stick to the current Golden ear.
@@edsinger8900 if you're happy with it then absolutely yes! Would either REL be an upgrade? Absolutely! But we can play that game forever, for every item you own there is most likely something better that costs around the same or slightly more. As technology continues to advance this will never change. Look at TV's, for every $200 you add to your budget you can get a better TV but you have to draw the line somewhere and set a budget. Now if you think you can perhaps recover around half by selling your existing sub that makes upgrading a bit more palatable. As always with life, there are a ton of options :).
this one is best video so useful i love how you made it . thanks bro !
This is my first time watching your video as I am thinking of a pair of speakers with a sub. I am a headphone user, has a few DACs, Head Amps which can be pre-amps. I am a dummy on speakers Hi Fi setup and was considering the R700 but don’t have the space for it. My room is small at only - 4.25 L x 3.15 W x 2.48 H in meters (13’11” x 10’4” x 8’1”). After deducting space used for bookshelves along both walls and a work desk at the end, the next space is 3.65 L x 2.51 W x 2.48 H in meters or 11’11” L x 8’2” W x 8’1” so I am recommended the R200. All reviews I saw are favorable for this speaker.
This pair of speakers will be on my new work desk in my Work Room at home first for music listening purposes, I may add a subwoofer or 2 as I like soundstage, musically clear and warmer sounds. My LG sound bar is not meeting expectations with my TV in the living room so if the R200 can fit the little space I have on each side of my tv and can be placed on the console, that’s when I’d consider making it into a home-theatre-like setup. I will then get the Centre, upward firing Atmos and surround speakers for a Home-Theatre-like setup. I intend to use the Gustard R26 as the DAC. To anyone who can help me, I need your advices for these questions:
1. R200 with 1 or 2 subwoofer? Brand and model please? I was recommended the Rel T7X, T9X and the Rythmix F12 or a pair of L12s.
2. Amplifiers and/or other equipments for the above?
3. Which Centre and surround speakers to get if turning into a Atmos/DTX-S “Home-Theatre” (it’s just or living room, not a dedicated big room for real Home Theatre)?
4. Which amplifier, brand and model should I get if I am doing (1), (2), and (3) above?
5. What other equipments do I need?
Too bad I live in a country where I can’t just purchase something and then return because I don’t like it and I can’t find a shop that has the Polk Audio R200 for test.
Hi BIlly this is a fairly long question, you'll need to hop in my free discord and ask there discord.gg/nemopropaganda
@@NemoPropaganda thank you! I have posted in your discord, hope to get some advices.
See if you can get your hands on the Sonus Faber sub, it's in the T9 price range. I'm guessing they're pretty good.
i don't have a contact with them so unlikely at the moment.
Interesting but could use details on why class a/b is more compelling than class d for lower base , what’s the equivalent SVS SUB,, and how does work or work less well for home theater?
I cannot talk about everything that everyone wants, the video will easily approach 1 hour and I don't think anybody wants to watch such a long video :). I made an entire video about REL compared to SVS, if you're asking for an equivalent model you need to watch that video to understand the difference which you can see here: th-cam.com/video/rEz03XkcslI/w-d-xo.html as far as how it performs for theater I believe you are watching one of my videos for the first time perhaps and may not know this channel is for 2ch music only. I hope this provides some clarification to your concerns.
@@NemoPropaganda LOL. I’ve seen that video but it means so much more now that I am closer to choosing a direction, ie whether I go with BMW or Mercedes. Following your car analogy, you have to see and experience a car before you decide, as narration only gets you so close. For example, I thought I knew the dimensions of a 600 LT until I saw one live today. Video doesn’t do the proportions justice. Wicked! Thanks NEMO!!!! I’ve got some testing to do
@@maximo90019 Yeah I understand, at some point you really have to just experience the gear, how big is your room? Are you doing 50/50 music and movies?
@@NemoPropaganda room is 15 x 15 ft, and 70 /30 music to video. In the process of transitioning to 3.02 atmos setup from a two channel
@@maximo90019 okay, so you have a schmedium room and it's the evil square lol, I'd go for a single HT-1205, it's a great all around sub, great with music and has tons of output if you want to get crazy with your movies :). Of course a single SVS SB2000 Pro or a pair of T7X will also be great options though they have completely different sounds.
Hey, thanks for the review, which subwoofer cable (LFE) do you use?
Hi David, I don't use LFE, with REL I use their high-level cable and for other subs I use the standard L + R preout hookups (rca) and the RCA cable I use is the Analysis Plus Oval One.
Hey Nemo did you c the KEF Q series speaker commercial on tv ? I’ve never seen a speaker commercial on a national channel before ? It’s expensive to air a commercial like that. I saw it on a commercial break while watching Mornings with Maria on Fox Business . Thought it was pretty cool nice commercial . Did you get a good percentage from the movie ? Finding NEMo lol love Nemo .
I have not my bro, i havn't cable tv in about 20 years. I only really watch anime and read books. Shit brother I wish I had a royalty from that!!
Spot on with your comparison of T7x vs T9x, because it’s the same with the T7i vs T9i. Just wondering if you think it’s worth upgrading from the T7i to the T7x? I’m thinking it can’t be that much better, but please feel free to surprise me!
I was also considering the T5i at the time of purchase, but I’m so glad I went with the T7i as it’s more ‘musical’ and more than enough for movies (it can shake my windows).
that's a tough question to answer as I've not heard the 7i. My stance on upgrading to a new model of anything is always this: If you have the extra cash and it's not a big deal then go for it, if it's going to cause a fight with the wife or you have to save up the money, or you could do better things with the money then perhaps it's better to keep enjoying what you have.
@@NemoPropaganda that’s good advice. I’d also add that if there are other components that are weaker in the chain then upgrading those first would probably give a bigger bang-for-the-buck than a 7i to 7x upgrade.
@@GodfreyMann pretty much yes. At the end of the day the 7i is a fantastic subwoofer and is loved by many people.
Is there something you feel you're missing, on the performance side, with the 7i? The "grass is greener" mindset, in HiFi, is dangerous.
@@mtkreger totally agree with your “grass is greener” mindset in Hi-Fi, which is why I’m sceptical that upgrading from a 7i to 7x would make enough of a difference.
For myself, there’s nothing lacking in the 7i, but although it boosts the soundstage making it more expansive and engaging by bringing out the room acoustics in good recordings, I think it may be masking some of the subtleties and delicacy of the layering I hear in my speakers without the sub. In one track in particular, I can actually hear a decrease in the soundstage depth, which compresses the layers reducing the air between instruments. Thus, I suspect that the 7i has a character which will be different to more expensive subs, and that character is being forced on to my speakers. As good as the 7i is, I suspect my speakers (Vandersteen Model 1Ci) out class it.
The question comes down to whether I’m right about the layering and if I miss it enough to look for a sub that better enhances my speaker’s profile. For that I’d like to hear the same phenomenon in more tracks. Time will tell…
Question, I have B&W 603 S2 Tower's. I would like to buy a subwoofer, was thinking of the T 7x for music and the 1205 for movies. Would that be a good match and also can I use both when watching movies? Or should I stick with B&W subwoofer? Thanks
Yes that should be a good match and yes you can run them together.
Hi Nemo,
I have a T7x with Aria 906 and i was thinking to add a Rel HT 1003 mk1 to get more extension, will it fit well together with my stereo amp ??
If yes, how do i have to connect the Rel HT, the T7 IS connected with high level.
Thx , keep going that way 👌
Rel are excellent no doubt about it.
Regarding the high level connection marketing I think it is due to that every amplifier has speakers level output and not all have preout outputs . I think if every amplifier had low level output on it then REL would have been marketing the LOW level connection.
All of those connections are good . Low level is jast as good as high level connection if not better in certain cases.
I prefer the low level connection of svs. Two preout outputs on your amp and two RCA cables and your done. simple. efficient.
Yet regarding quality - REL are no 1 with SVS.
Dude if you have separates high level is only one way to go.
Hey Nemo, when I compared the Rythmik L12 to a REL t5i (yeah, I am that guy who cross-shopped based on price), sure, the L12 extended deeper but I picked the L12s because it had that more muscular and fuller sound than the REL t5i , which was fast but lacked weight to the sound. Is that tonal differences?
With the introduction of the T/X series, you mentioned (and have heard this elsewhere) that the sound is fuller (especially the t7/9x over the t5x). My other question is, is that more closer to the Rythmik? My room is about 12% smaller than yours, I can't go back to a single sub, and I am definitely a SQ buyer based on your previous definition. I would go with Rythmik F12 but I just discovered it's even larger than my L12s, which I am trying to avoid.
Thanks for the help.
Hey Eugene, so the difference is simply in the size, you're comparing 2 SQ subwoofers so that's fair however at the end of the day an 8" is not a 12" even if they are priced similarly. You are not the first man to wish a small subwoofer can have the performance of a larger one (I am guilty of this also). You can tighten the gap a bit with certain tricks like having 2 smaller subwoofers but if you want small subs you just have to accept they are small subs and will have some limits. The T5X is fantastic but will never sound like the L12.
@@NemoPropaganda thanks Nemo, would you say the same thing about the t7x and t9x? It sounds like the muscular weight to the sound is not there in an 8 inch sub which makes me wonder if it’s there in the led kc62.
I would go with the f12se but whatever I get, it will need to be two since I have them correctly located in my room for smooth bass from 20hz to 100hz. But the f12 is a bigger cabinet.
@@sunshine242-l4y The KC62 uses a lot of DSP trickery to accomplish it's magic so that's another story. As you go up the REL chain 7x and 9x naturally will be fuller sounding with a larger sense of scale. At the end of the day I wouldn't worry about it too much , you've chosen the L12 which is a fine subwoofer!
Nemo I just added a (White ) REL T7X subwoofer to blend in with my HECO Aurora 700 Tower speakers. Can you do a video on best practices to break-in your Sub if you are in an apartment. Besides just running it 8 hours for 3 consecutive days at a moderate volume. Thanks I enjoy all your videos!
Hi Vince, easiest way is to take the driver out of the cabinet and let it break in free-air. Be careful not to overdrive the subwoofer driver as it will have more excursion in free air, running it somewhat hard for about 2-4 hours this way should have break in mostly finished. The passive will still need to break in separately but you'll be most of the way there without shaking your house. Make sure not to cover the vent on the backside of the magnet while the driver is being broken in free air. Conversely if this sounds too complicated just watch a few movies. After the 3rd or fourth one it should be mostly broken in :). REL T/X range don't need hundreds of hours, just a few :).
Hello, do you see an advantage or benefit of adding the Rel sub to the Buchardts? If yes, Which Rel would you recommend for pairing with the Buchardt's?
Hi Cory, it really depends on the room and your goals, the original s400 is hard to pair with subwoofers. Are you looking for more of the bass you already have or are you looking for more extension? What country are you in?
@@NemoPropaganda I listen to close to reference levels in my large room... I am looking to move to the A500 and was thinking if a sub would be needed... or would you be of the opinion that an A700 would be better. Located in the US
@@cory3685 You can't use a sub with the A500 unless you ditch the hub and use a preamp but that kind of makes the whole proposition silly, might as well get the S400 MK2 instead. With that said the A500 have tons of bass, 99% or users will not feel the need to add a subwoofer but I don't know how loud you really listen, if reference levels means 95dB or higher I strongly suggest you reach out to Buchardt and ask their opinion. I'm not familiar with A700 so I can't comment.
How do these stack up against the 10s and 12s for tv watching mostly? I like the size of the REL's alot better.
Even the largest of the Tx subs is smaller than the 10s and substantially smaller than the 12s. Generally I don't compare subwoofers that are so vastly different in size and design. RSL is more about bringing maximum value to the table while REL is more of a luxury brand that is obsessively focused on sound quality and aesthetics. You want a Cello to sound as real as possible you buy a REL, you lookin for big output on a budget you buy RSL, totally different. The closest comparisons between the two brands would be something like the 1205 MK2 versus the 10s or Predator 1510 vs 12s. Series T/X are way to small to compare to large vented subs. I think you may be a little new to this and suggest you hop in my free discord to chat with some people that will be able to point you in the right direction based on your needs, link is in the description.
I have a pair of Kef Q100s (the older style ones with the front facing ports at the bottom). In a room that is approx. 200sq feet. I already get okish bass from the speakers and good mid and top end from them. I put the details into REL's website and it recommended a single t5x. When I went to order them richer sounds here in the UK they suggested sticking to one T5x or two of them or jumping up to the T7x. Difficult to know the right move without having them in your room, so I have ordered one T5x to start with (coming later today) and then if it sounds good I will try and add another (if I can find a space for another). Alternatively if the T5x doesn't make any difference I might return it and get a T7x and then in the distant future when I have saved up then look to get another. Gah its all a bit of a leap :)
I relate bro but for what it's worth I think your perspective and approach is bang on correct!
Hi Nemo,
I am planning to setup a 3D subwoofer set up with 4 REL subs as -
1. 1 REL T/7x for Center channel - using High Level Input only
2. 1 REL T/7x for dedicated Rear surrounds - using High Level Input and LFE (one .1 sub out from AVR)
3. 2 REL T/9xs, one for Left and one for Right Mains - using High Level Input and LFE (other .1 sub out from AVR using a Y splitter to 2 subs). These speakers and subs (without LFE) will also be used for 2 channel listening.
Do you see any issues with this 4 sub setup? Are the REL models I chose apt for this setup?
Question on sub for surrounds. I am planning to do a 7.2.4 setup. How can I connect all my surround channels (4 surrounds and/or 4 atmos) to the high level input of the surround sub.
Hey Madan, to get the most accurate and helpful information I recommend you speak to REL directly regarding your plans. They have a lot more experience setting up systems like this and can give you much better advice and may even recommend something different in certain places. You'll be spending good money on this so I think it's best to make sure it's perfect!
Did you go for it? How does it sound compared to regular setup
@@whitecrowuk575 I did a completely different setup with 5 REL T9Xs in a 7.2.4 setup
High level connections, using Speakon cables
1. 1 REL T9X with Left channel
2. 1 REL T9X with Right channel
3. 1 REL T9X with center channel
4. 1 REL T9X with side surround speakers
5. 1 REL T9X with rear surrounds speakers
2 LFEs / Subouts from AVR
First subout using a Y splitter to the 2 T9Xs that are connected to Left and right
second subout using 2 Y splitters to the 3 T9Xs that are connected to the Center, side and rear surrounds.
This way I am getting the most out of all the 5 RELs
all 7 channel speakers enhacements + 2 LFEs
It is a very musical sounding Home theater set-up.
@@madandevarenti4212 do you recon is there any benefit for cinema in driving speakers full range rather than having crossover and feeding it via LFE to subwoofers?
@@whitecrowuk575 Yes, they have to be driven full range to take advantage of the speakon connectors and I did notice a lot of difference. I also play them as 2 channel for music from the same AVR and there too they perform great.
REL has a detailed TH-cam video about subwoofer break in. What is your opinion or process for sub woofer break in?
I believe in it, it's a very real thing, it can be measured and has been measured many times in the car audio industry. How much break in depends on the driver, anywhere from 2-20 hours should be sufficient for most subs. Subs with lighter moving mass like a T7X should be done breaking within just a few hours. Heavier & stiffer suspensions like those found on a JL, SVS, or Arendal will need closer to 20. Listen to music with heavy bass, watch some movies. Not at max volume but you want to push the damn thing a bit. For most users should be finished with break-in within the first 2-4 weeks.
@@NemoPropaganda Here's the REL video I was referring to. Maybe some of your viewers might benefit - th-cam.com/video/8bNVHV_q1qk/w-d-xo.html
@@WWeiss-nv5vz Mr Hunter is correct! When I A/B subs I usually have them both plugged in and powered on and I just swap RCA cables to A/B.
my room is 12ft vs 13ft. I need to buy a premium sub for both movie and music. l was thinking between REL T7/9X or svs sb 3000 or HSU VTF TN1 or Rythmik FV 15 HP. Any suggestion?
can you hop in my free discord? Would be a lot easier to chat there since you have so many options and I have a few questions. First thing I noticed is it seems you are very flexible in terms of the size of the subwoofer? Link is in the description, make a post in purchase advice section plz.
Nemo, let me ask you this, you have played with the REL and the SVS SB3000... Frequencies are frequencies, a sub is a speaker, HT or Music, we are dealing with the same thing, identical frequencies. I have two of the SB3000 subs with the Ultra bookshelf speakers. My system is a mess right now and I need to attend to it. Would a pair of REL T5X sound better than, or darn close, to a dialed in pair of SB3000 subs? I can afford the RELs, but space is at a premium... I could fit the smaller RELs in, just wondering if it is even worth it seeing as I already have a much acclaimed sub. Your thoughts having heard both? And granted, rooms, space, materials in the room, etc, I totally understand that aspect to any sound either would or can produce. Thanks for your time.
it depends what "sounds better" means to you. SB3000 absolutely is among the best subwoofers if it suits your taste. I can't really tell you what your taste is but I did make a video to help with that: th-cam.com/video/rEz03XkcslI/w-d-xo.html
@@NemoPropaganda Thank you sir for the sensible reply. No two ears are alike... And I will check out the video, thank you again!
I like how you compare SPL/SQ and different subs for different uses. Now your videos make me realise i am a SQ guy with a multi setup different sets of speakers for theater and music, but with music priority. so i am waiting for the day REL makes a sub with SVS mobile app to easily change presets
Hey thanks for the kind words. REL doesn't use any DSP in any of their designs. To ask REL to use a cell phone app is asking them to change their entire approach to subwoofer design so it will most likely never happen :(. Their more expensive models do come with a pretty cool remote control though :).
@@NemoPropaganda thanks! good to know! Then maybe i have to make some kind of compromise on my next sub
Final help 😊 REL T7x or JL D110 for music? I will end game things here, thank you for your time and help!!! Best
th-cam.com/video/rEz03XkcslI/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=NemoPropaganda
Thanks 😊
TMI? No such thing - until there is. Nice vid!
Damn Nemo you sure know how to sell the rel :D i still have to wait until Christmas to buy the ht1205. Do you have some suggestions for me ? how should i connect the REL ht1205 if i buy it in the future? Love your Videos !
Hey Ed, it's really straight forward, keep the frequency at 9 o'clock or slightly under, choose your phase (i talked about this more in my subwoofer setup video) and then set the volume, that's it :)
@@NemoPropaganda Oh nice :) But which subwoofer/rca cable would you recommend ? Because i heard that people say that a chaep cable can sound really bad or have a "hum" at any volume.
Hi, I have the 1205 for 2 years and I love it. I do mainly movies and I can say it gives a much deeper sound and rumble than the Ti or the Tx range.
@@edbek2442 it's overkill but I use the analysis plus oval one, it's like $99 for 6ft.
@@rayking507 oh yeah, it's a great sub and the larger 12" driver will certainly give it an edge for deep bass & extension. I view the HT1205 as a hidden gem, it doesn't get as much love as the T/X range but it seriously good!
I am so looking forward to doing the review of the tenants subwoofer my room is about the same size as yours and I’m almost tempted to go after the T5 but I am very interested in the 10 inch that you are describing in the video your videos are awesome buddy keep up the good work
thank you bro!
@@NemoPropaganda good morning, what is the benefits of having a downfiring subwoofer versus a front firing subwoofer? Hope you enjoy your Tuesday
@@rjzlwop3153 honestly bro I'm not really sure. I've never really taken the time to learn about that.
@@NemoPropaganda Okey-dokey thanks
Can I connect a high-level subwoofer without speakers? Will it harm the subwoofer or amplifier? I want to buy a subwoofer on the secondary market, but there is no way to listen with speakers, there is only an amplifier.
yes, no problem. It's not going to sound amazing without speakers but you can totally do it just to make sure it works.
Great review.
I need help on why I need 2 subs vs 1 sub, my current sub is a Def tech supercube 4000, now they dont sell them anymore. Now Im thinking of a rel t7x 1) will it be bad to mix subs, 2) why 2 ? Thxs for help. Room specs 10ft cealings, about 20ft x 24ft z shaped room. My avr is Yamaha aventage 3050, bi amped 250watts feed 2 fronts klipsch rp 280s eq all low end to sub fronts only play high n mids.
Hey Rudy, you have 4 8" woofers in your towers, let them play some bass before you decide on a subwoofer, I'd let those bad boys run full range! Also it's what REL recommends :D
As far as mixing subs it can be done but the results is usually a sacrifice so I don't recommend it for music but it's common and okay for movies. Like a small sub handeling mid bass and then an low end SPL monster for the rumble.
I think T7X is too small for the towers/room you have and would instead go for the HT-1205.
Hi Nemo, I currently using a Paradigm PDR-10 paired with a pair of Silverline minuet supremes, would it be worth upgrading to a Rel T/5x?
oh nice, I have the Minuet Supreme Plus also, it's a great little speaker! I think the T5X would be a very nice upgrade as the PDR is rather old and a ported sub so the PDR is probably louder but you will most likely have a big quality improvement going to the T5X.
Just subscribed, great channel!!! I have a room similar in size to yours, I have Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers. I am torn between a pair of T5x or 1 T7x. Space is tight in the room. Thoughts?
Hey Rock, welcome aboard!! I really loved my pair of T5X and I also love using a single T7X. Both are fantastic so I suggest choosing the option that is best for your living environment as it's a home first. If you can pull off the dual T5X that would get my vote but if you can better accommodate a single T7X that's still a fantastic subwoofer.
@@NemoPropaganda Awesome! I'll let you know what I decide; but I'm leaning towards a pair of T5X.
Which one do you think better subwoofer between rel t7x and kef 62c if the price different is only 150$
mmm if I could only have 1 as in not duals just 1 I would do the KC62 because of it's incredible extension at lower volumes.
Which rel better paired with Martin Logan sequel 2. Using for 2 channel and turntable. Thx!!!
I suggest you ask REL directly or your dealer. I am not familiar with that speaker.
I’ve been considering the Rel T7X OR T9X for a while now. I’m also looking at the Marantz model 30. It’s strange to consider going to a Class D amp and at the same time getting a class ab subwoofer. Seems like everything is reversed lol.
Talk to REL first, not all Class D amps are compatible with REL subwoofers via high level input.
@@NemoPropaganda yep I’ve heard this. It seems like the biggest issue when pairing the two is the class d amp not having a true ground. Rel says this can be solved by hooking up and rca from the preout to the lfe input (not to use the input but just to act as a ground). In the case of the Marantz, I believe it has a place for the ground right on the back of it which would work perfect. Regardless if I were to go this route I would definitely check with them first just in case. Thanks for the lookout though!
Go for Marantz 30. I have Ruby which is similar. Amazing. Have nearly a year and still smilling.
@@piotrkonieczynski I’m really conflicted between the model 30 and the Ruby. With the 30 I would get the matching SACD 30N. With the Ruby I would probably get the NA6006. I’m conflicted between the better amp or the better digital source
@@mattolsziewski7164 dacs streamers will always change.
Get the foundations right.
Ruby if you still can buy it is the way to go. Is better made than 30 and is limited by last references by Ken.
Please review both S510 and HT/1003 and ELAC SUB 2070 :)
mmm I dunno about elac, the price is very high and the power is low for the type of design it uses (dual opposed).
@@NemoPropaganda it is supposed to be a very good sub for music. price is not that high.
@@MrEvhel83 I think it's like $1800+ for US customers, I can't find pricing anywhere though, I don't know if they even still make it but at that price I'd just go for the REL T9X or Rythmik F12SE :).
Awesome video. Very helpful.
Recently discovered you Nemo big fan now great vids. Have you reviewed the monolith 10THX and if so please put a link I’m interested in your thoughts of it up against the svs sb1000pro and rsl speedwoofer 10s. I have the iato vx stack with elac debut 6.2 in an apartment medium size looking for some low end although the 6.2s do a good job. 70 music 30 movie. Thanks in advance I’ve learnt more from your channel than many others. 👍
hey whats up hobitsis, nah I havn't reviewed the monolith. It's a big ported subwoofer so it'll be great for movies and just okay for music. The only ported subwoofers I recommend for mixed systems that have a heavy emphasis on music are the Rythmik FVX12, Emotiva RS11, and RSL Speedwoofer in that order. If you're looking to just add some bass without taking up too much space in an apartment and without compromising your music listening I'd look at something smaller like the REL HT-1003, SVS SB-1000 Pro, Rythmik L12, etc...
Hi Nemo Propaganda....can I rack your brains on which rel to choose? The 5x or the 7x ? My room is small, about 10 feet wide and 12 feet length and I listen mainly to acoustic music but also rock. Would the 7x be an overkill? Would the 5x not be enough? I would prefer to get one sub not a dual. And my main speakers are a pair of Magnepan LRS's.Thanks mate.
Hi bro, that's the same size room as me, 1 t7x for sure.
@@NemoPropaganda Thanks mate....appreciate it.
Rel T7X or Rel HT1003 MKII in 18 meters square room only for music in 2.1 music system? They need to improve woofer of B&W 703 S3 towers with Marantz 40N amplifier. Dont wanna to shake room just need to improve sound to get more air and open sound but not to kill mids and higs of B&W. Live in apartment and dont wanna angry neighbours and dont like woofer that punch hard and dominate. What you will choose? Any help will be good :) Dont have opportunity to hear them in person. And forget to say need them for rock, hard & heavy music listening.
bass by its very nature can disturb neighbors regardless of what subwoofer you use, how much bass you produce will determine how much your neighbor is disturbed. As far as which sub, I like both for different reasons, the 1003 will extend lower but the T7X will have a little more fidelity. Both are great subs and the same physical size overall.
@@NemoPropaganda ty bro for answer. Keep good work ;)
I love your articulation and education on all things subwoofer. 😊
thanks wolverine!
Long time listener, I’m about to get a home theater system, my room is 16x49 with 9 ft ceilings, I’m now thinking dual T7x or T5x, my receiver will likely be Onkyo TX RZ50 with an Emotiva Bas X 3 channel amplifier, what should I do? Dual T5x or T7x?? Thanks in advance
Is that room size a typo?
@@NemoPropaganda Lol, no it’s a really long room upstairs, it’s right above my 3 car garage
Oh man thats big, I think you might need dual Predators. Have you asked your local dealer?
Also what speakers are you using?
@@NemoPropaganda I’ve narrowed them down to Kef q950’s for front towers and q650 for center channels or the Kefr3’s for front channels and Kef R2c for center channel, not sure what I’m looking at for surround and back channels, if you got any suggestions for my speaker selection I’m all ears on those too
Hey! Give me some guidance please :)
Im in a 4.4mx4.4 loungeroom open to the side with dining and kitchen to the right. Im running Focal Aria 926 fronts. I listen mostly to movies and another variable I live in a townhouse So I am worried about annoying the neighbours so I cant listen near referance. Do I run a couple t5x's or a T7x or a couple HT1003's? And should I run them Arias as large? Thanks :))
Ps i subbed
Yes run the Aria as large. My advice is get whatever sub you want. You can always turn it down if the neighbors complain or just turn the sub off after 9pm to avoid any complaints. I know people with 18" subs in apartments :).
Nemo, for strictly music with a 2 channel set up, in a room about your size, a pair of T5x or pair of the T7x? I already have a pair of the SVS SB3000, which are fantastic, but not as musical as I would like. The T5x would be much more affordable, and the smaller footprint is needed in my already crowded room. I would be using the subs with bookshelf speakers, no real room for towers. I'm looking for SQ, I don't want to hear the subs, if you know what I mean? I would be pairing with a Schiit Freya, and Gungnir DAC along with the XTZ A2-400 amp. Oh, I have wood floors, down firing woofer and all... Would the T5x, a pair, work some magic for me in regards to using strictly for music? Rock, country, classic rock, etc. Not too heavy into the heavy bass stuff, but so like the Beauty Boys... ;-)
Hey Michael so yes I think either pair 5x or 7x would sound fantastic but it will be important to not expect the 5x to bring the pain an SB3000 can bring :). While the 7x is better the 5x is still outstanding and substantially cheaper in pairs so it will just come down to how much you want to spend and I wouldn't fault you if you prefer to save $840 and go for the 5x pair.
@@NemoPropaganda Funny too, I went to the REL website and did the "Which Subwoofer" thing. And I plugged in a comparable speaker to what I have, did the medium size room, and it recommend the tiny Tzero sub? What do you think about that recommendation from their fitting bot? Strictly music is what I am looking for, as I have no intentions of getting rid of the SB3000s...
@@michaelwright1602 I will have a Tzero review sample soon but I have not heard one yet so I cannot say. I can tell you that from my conversations with REL they did say if someone is considering using a Tzero in pairs they should instead buy a single 5x or 7x and that Tzero was made for small room stereo, space restrictions, or small speaker reinforcement for theater like pairing a Tzero with a center channel or surround speaker. Since you are looking at a pair and have space for a pair I would stick to your original 5x or 7x idea.
@@NemoPropaganda Very good, thank you sir!
Hey Nemo, my vinyl collection is strictly 90's hiphop, listening room similar size to yours except 10foot ceilings, its a corner room that intersects 2 hallways and a set of stairs and no doors!- nightmare! Lol - ANYWAY, I'm very much torn between Rels offering of 1205 or t9x. Is the 12" driver on the 1205 going to be better for hiphop? I'm a SQ guy at heart, but still want some definitive bass. Cheers for all the vids mate - excellent work!! 👍
Either one should be a nice upgrade but the 9x certainly takes the edge in terms of build quality and sound quality. While the 1205 has the larger driver and can play louder at the absolutely limit I don't think that will be a major factor for music listening. It's a tough call between the two. Both can pound, the 1205 can pound a little harder and a little lower while the 9x takes a strong edge in overall SQ so it just depends which aspect is more important to you. I would honestly just pick the one you like the aesthetics of and try it out, you can always return it for the other one if it's not a good match and I'd start with the T9X. Also if possible try to demo them, A lot of dealers have them available.
Many thanks for the reply Nemo! Solid advice mate, I'll head to the dealer to audition them at the store. 👍
@@lachlanbanks-smith1106 nice dude! we have a free discord, links are in the newer videos if you want to join, I'd be curious how it goes for you and your experience could help others.
What brand of acoustic treatments do you have there?
The back wall is just for Dekeru panels from Amazon but I also have GIK gobo panels at the first reflection points.
Torn between 2 T5x or a single T7x....can't seem to decide. Room size is about 210sq ft to pair with Revel F35 5.0 speaker system.
Hey Sutra, that's a tough decision, I like both a lot but would maybe lean towards a single 7x with plans to add a second one within a year or so. We don't have to do this all overnight, most great systems are built over years :). The pair of 5x is awesome too though so you really can go either way.
Thanks....appreciate it!
@@NemoPropaganda the main REL website recommends the T7x with the Revel F35 speakers and the T5x with some other speakers. Took me a while to figure out between the HT series or the Tx, even though about 50% will be used for home theatre. But then I figured the Tx will also work better overall, including HT. Only it does not extend as low as the HT....which may not be that bad, I guess!
@@sutraleticsssutraleticss5001 yeah, the thing for me is I have heard both and I think most people will be happy with either one so it's hard to really recommend one over the other. I think you'll be happy either way but a single or pair of T7x would be awesome for sure!
@@NemoPropaganda yes I guess that's the way to go. Perhaps will get the other one later. Thanks for your help! 👍
First of, great videos, so much info and common sense!
The only thing i feel is confusing.. roomsizes. What is a ”small/medium/big room”? I mean, 4x6 meters, is that small or medium etc
there aren't any agreed upon metrics here but I'd consider your room to be medium sized.
@@NemoPropaganda thank you for your reply!
Would you choose the ht1003 or t5x for rooms in that ballpark?
I use it for both ”critical” listening and movies
@@BumbiPuck Just 1 sub? I'd do a single HT-1205 for a mixed system.
I am thinking about getting REL don't know witch one to get my Room size is 10.3 W × 19L × 7.7 H
it's very challenging to pick something for someone without knowing their goals, listening habits, or budget, I'm happy to help push you in the right direction once you've narrowed down your options to 2 or 3 subs but I can't pick one for you.
I have a slightly larger room and a T7X works well for me.
Bowers wilkins db4s vs rel t5x?
Hi Zoralo, I don't think it makes sense to compare the T5X to something that is more than 3x it's price. You could buy a pair of T5X and still save $800 vs a single DB4S. The DB4S is grossly overpriced and anyone considering a DB4S should instead look to the REL T9X which is cheaper and better.
@@NemoPropaganda rel t9x have better timing and texture or b&w?
@@Zoralovsky for sure! B&W make great subwoofers but they exaggerate the watts and extension and charge more! T9X has world class fidelity. If you watch my T7X video I talk about al 3 of them in that video :)
@@NemoPropaganda Does the passive membrane not give color to the sound? Is it not more difficult to place due to the passive membrane?
@@Zoralovsky no, it's really easy to setup in the room :).
What setting did you use for T9x with you S400 MKII?
Hey Lim, can't remember sorry. But I had the freq around 40hz and the phase at 180 i think.
Nemo thank you