14.5mm Soviet AT Rifle vs Panzer IV skirts (Schürzen) | PTRS-41 Rifle Armor Penetration Simulation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.พ. 2025
- Simulation of AP shell from PTRS AT Rifle hitting hull side armor of Panzer IV (with / without armor skirts)
14.5mm BS-41 at 950m/s
vs
5mm steel skirt (Schürzen) + 30mm RHA
BS-41 contains tungsten carbide core, incendiary at the front and has lead body + jacket
PTRS-41 AT Rifle
The muzzle velocity varies depending on the source, but is approximately 1000 m/s (950 m/s at 0.15 km)
calculation time ~300h
Very long simulation. I hope the person who asked for it likes it.
I totally do. Great work!
Insta like 👍
AP or APHE ammunition from the ISU 152 against the 200mm plate of the Ferdinand at 300 meters. Is this possible?
@@leonardogandini147 it's a matter of time, I've gotten a few hundred requests over the years, I have them written down somewhere, if I keep running the channel they'll appear someday
@@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 Ok, ok, take your time. Wow, who would have thought that such a "simple" simulation has thousands of calculations and numbers to take into account.
Tungsten: I'm s h a t t e r
carbide of tungsten*
My heart after my last relashioship was made of Tungsten
it seams the skirts did their job
seamlessly.
Ripped the seam.
Well, somewhat. But it was 1943 and later when they appeared, and turret skirts blocked view ports and escape hatches. So it wasn't a big improvement. Anyways ATrifles weren't theain threat at that point and against canons a 5mm wouldn't do much anyways
Maybe against bazookas that would makes some sense, but again not sure if it's worth it
I mean the skirts were made for this exact purpose, protection for Soviet AT Rifles like the PTRS
This is what happens in War Thunder when you fire APCR or early APDS and get "shell shattered". Tungsten carbide is brittle, penetrators made of it going through an armour plate shatter, so their penetration against the next plate is greatly reduced even if the remains of the shell theoretically have enough kinetic energy.
Ohhh, that makes sense now. I knew what shell shattering was, but not like this! Thanks!
I wonder if tungsten allow would hold up well enough to go through
@@contagioushavoc5794 probably
@@contagioushavoc5794 Depending on the alloy, a harder material will break, a softer one will not break, but will flatten out on the armor like a cake. The tungsten alloy needs the right speed to penetrate by erosion
Good demonstration showing off what Cone of Arc was talking about on his video 2 days ago.
Arc is a weird anime loli man. Pray for the demon to leave him.
@@wowdanalisehe got that grimmler inside him
Well no, he said it was due to tumbling, which is not a thing. But this simulation correctly depicts the projectile shattering scenario.
@@wowdanalise
Roman statue PFP, opinion ignored.
Look I'm about as right-wing as they come, but being against anime is the exact same behavior that led to the conservatives losing against the Democrats in the 90s.
The only reason the Republicans have gotten back on top *at all* is because they stopped shitting on the average person for enjoying things as much while the left has gone completely insane.
But if you want to sacrifice any success you could have towards fixing society in favor of being pissy about anime, you do you
He's wrong or lying on a lot of topics. No one should watch his channel.
Not surpised it went through without the skirt and didn't with it. That was what the skirt was for. But still surprised how much energy left even after the skirt broke up the round and caused it to yaw.
@@neurofiedyamato8763 the impact was at an almost perfect angle, in most cases it will end much worse for the shell
maybe I will make a simulation for different angles with the skirt armor itself
@@dejmianxyzsimulations4174yeah, I bet even like 10 degrees off axis would make the final penetration significantly worse.
On the topic of smaller caliber AP, would be cool to see VYa-23 23mm BZ round hitting a Pz IV side armor at around 300m with like 30º downwards angle, as if an IL-2 was strafing at it from close distance, seems to be right at the edge of the penetration capability. Adding plane diving speed (400 km/h or so) to the muzzle velocity I guess as well?
Maybe the corner of the hull so we have one round hitting the side and another slightly behind hitting the hull roof to have both situations
If I am not mistaken, earlier tungsten carbide is brittle, that's why It shatter upon impact. Modern ammo now uses tungsten alloy, which is more ductile and can greatly reduce shattering.
All tungsten carbide is brittle. Tungsten alloy is not tungsten carbide and that's why it's less brittle.
Tungsten carbide was, is, and will be brittle. It is one of the defining characteristic of carbide in general.
You got it mixed up@@TheLadderman
@@mr.waffentrager4400 what are you talking about
@@TheLadderman i am sorry I think I read something else
Always love seeing layered armor sims like the PZ III M
Would like to see maybe some Super Pershing sims in the future?
@@Sha.ll0w yes
@@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 IS-2 vs Super Pershing would be interesting I think, according to WT it can go through but I'm not so sure it should.
При движении в металле на карбидный сердечник действует обжатие (давление с боков) металла. После того как преграда пройдена, обжатие пропадает и... резкий сброс давления - сердечник хрупкий и происходит его разрушение...
Really impressive ! Great work !
This is cool, thanks for making it!
Super cool animation, i#ve always wondered about those skirts, both whether or not they were effective but also of course, how they achieved effectiveness.
Could you make antipanzer rifle UR wz.1935 vs Panzer III driver armor? Some say it worked, others say it is propaganda.
@@MM-zg4wu
Done
th-cam.com/video/VryzTyh8X7Y/w-d-xo.htmlsi=HMANCeXPYGF65UJ0
wow! I'm impressed by the long simulation
For the longest time I wondered why those skirts were ever added, now I see why those AT rifles even existed.
Thanks WT brain >:(
Finns removed side-skirts from their StuGs. At first they didn't add any additional armor, until in summer 1944. One of the add-ons was a 15mm plate, which was mounted 30mm apart from the main side armor. Would be interesting to see how well this would work.
I really liked this video, could you please do more with anti tang rifles?
That's what the skirts were for on the panther specifically
Pls do a Oreshnik Penetrator Sim, somethin like a 100-200kg Tungsten Rod with 3km/s. Against? I don't know, because simulating earth + concrete etc. is probably not easy.
Shell shattered 😎
Incredible how a thin metal plate can "save" a tank
Also it makes your tank appear larger and boxier so with a bit of camo everyone reports your Panzer IV as a Tiger and runs away.
Now show what it does to HEAT, or maybe if mesh skirts work
Pretty sure HEAT won't pen the skirt+armor (assuming that it can barely pen without skirt) however if HEAT is delayed enough or requires certain pressure to activate and the delay/pressure is set just right it will pen.
Mesh gates will do their job against HEAT if they are strong enough to trigger detonator prematurely.
The skirts werent far enough out for them to be effective in the slightest to stop HEAT projectiles, they were only intended to shatter the tungsten carbide AT rifle rounds from the soviets, as for the cope cages those seem to be just placebo
I wish you could add some details such as percentange of possibilities of penetration similar to video games.
as far as i know this rifle was semi automatic, so wouldnt it make more sense if we had multiple bullets in the simulation?
Genius
What effect would the skirt have on a 20mm. L.107 TnSH autocannon (the T-60 main gun) HVAP round? The TnSH HVAP round could penetrate up to 40mm. of armour at 300 metres, provided that it was at 0 degrees of inclination.
Also, what effect would it have on a 37mm. BR-160 APHE round, a 45mm. BR-251 APHE round and a 45mm. BR-251B APHEBC round?
In theory, passing through the skirt armour should cause the base mounted fuse to trigger and prematurely detonate the shells before they reach the actual side armour.
can you show how it would look if the thickness of the skirt was right on top of the armor instead of being spaced?
This is also the reason why Panther 2 development is stopped
I love it!
I'd like to see a comparison to what would happen if you just added the skirt armour thickness to the main plate directly.
@@Tom_Quixote Projectile after penetrating the armor had about a quarter of its initial energy, it would penetrate 35mm easily
@@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 I am sure you are right, but I just still think it would be interesting to see visually as a direct comparison.
Neat how that 5mm skirt breaks up the bullet...but the only thing that irks me, is the 5mm plate looks more like 7mm when compared with the width of the 14.5mm round. 🧐
It still penetrates the back armor more than you'd expect though. It's pretty impressive.
Any chance of showing 14.5's penetration using cermet cores?
This is a cermet core.
Can you make a comparison between AP and SAP rounds?
Will simply increasing the thickness of base armor up to 35mm be more effective than this?
@@oim8254 why? the projectile after penetrating the armor had about a quarter of its initial energy, it would penetrate 35mm easily
Against this particular threat? No.
The penetrator shattering is largely due to non uniform forces acting on the projectile. It is especially bad when some of the projectile experience a sudden absence of force, like when the plate fail and starts to pellet/plug.
Bro, put the 1 mm test plate behind 30mm armor plate for the second case
Подскажите пожалуйста с помощью какой программы происходило моделирование.
i read somewhere this is also why the nazi stop the development of panther 2 because one of problem they want to fix is panther weak side plate but apparently slapping a skirt is objectively far more cheaper than creating an entire new tank
What are the chances of a simulation of British 32 pounder AP vs Tiger 2 front slope?
@@DIVeltro If there is no drawing of a shell, the chances are low, I was looking for it once
I thought Schürzen were 8mm, not 5mm.
The sides schürzen are 5mm, only the turret is 8mm
@@hunmapperbalazsThanks.
How about T-64A "gill" side skirts against oblique angle HEAT?
Bofors 37mm and Lahti anti tank rifle would be great.
What specs is your pc to handle these simulations?
Can you do early war French light tank like Renault r35 vs Pz.2?
@@markdombrovan8849 I remember doing something like that, short French 37mm vs pz II
long time ago, probably 2 years ago
@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 you did, i found it. Good stuff
That reminds me of the 88mm shell being decapped by Pershing’s boiler plate.
How good would they be against the Polish 8mm anti-tank rifle?
KV-1(1942) vs Panzer IV Ausf.G front plate?
which kv 1 and pz4 variant? xd
What about LAV AD minigun vs T-90 eyes
Could you make the same one with one 35mm plate? (So the same mass, but no spacing?)
@@ChristianTheNorwegian projectile after penetrating the armor had about a quarter of its initial energy, it would penetrate 35mm easily
When hitting the machine gun on top of the turret of a modern tank with an OF-530 HE shell, how does shrapnel damage the lightly armored turret top ?
Tiger 1 HE (sprenggranate 43) 300 m/s vs t-34-76 front
I just wanna see if its true that it can disable a t-34 🤑
@ZalmiMalziFan ok
@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 NO WAY ARE YOU FR GONNA DO IT
@ZalmiMalziFan but why 300m/s is a speed beyond the practical hit range
@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 dunno just wanted to see
Now 20mm AP vs 30mm FHA 😋
да, пробивали, но слишком маленькое заброневое воздействие.
Enlisted doesnt
Supposedly the wire mesh Thoma Schürzen was found to be just as effective.
I wonder why there was no springed armor
@@dankdaze42069 the spring response would be too slow
@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 physics wouldn't have time for it to compress the coils to prevent penetration I'm guessing 🤔
@@dankdaze42069yeah that's what he means
@@dankdaze42069 the propagation time of the shock wave in the material at such speeds is noticeable, the plate attachment will feel after some time that the plate has been hit, the movement of the spring on such a time scale would take "forever"
@dejmianxyzsimulations4174 crap What about some sort of heavy duty air cushion underneath the plate of armor 🤔. Although that probably wouldn't be effective either if it could be thought up by me I'm sure engineers would have figured it out long ago 😅.
screen not penetrated
BS-41 = Bias 41
Решотка работает так же, как я слышал.
Да и она дешевле, однако в ней меньше метала, (что значит меньше енергии затрачено на пробитие), меньшая разница в давлении при и после пробития сетки.
Tungsten carbide sucks. Good thing we don't use that garbage for projectiles anymore.
Except we still do.
I know m993 uses tungsten carbide core.
I'm not sure about 50 cal.
Decapped
No russian bias at all
From this video i learned that the soviets didnt need any of the 110.000 t-34 from what 50-60k died.
But yes a ptr-41 kills even a tiger
Hell it 1 pounches a jagtiger
Fucking umbolivable.
Germans had the most killto losses ever. In the last 200 years of warfare.
Their weapons wore at least in the minnimum 2x better then any other.