"We live in an age of accounting... dominated by left side of brain. We need to use more our right side in order to achieve historical balance." Very wise insight mr Grinder.
He is talking about modelling. which, as I understand it is: How are doing what you are doing and is it working? An example could be 'How do you start conversations with people so well?' Or even ' How do you worry so well?' What special strategies are you using?
Modelling is such a sane approach to discovering, how something is done, Grinder & Bandler modeled successful therapists, Gendlin with his Focusing modeled successful clients-patients, "Therapeutic Factors" includes systems & techniques (be it context dependent or context independent),, though I think the "Common Factors Model", assumes (if it was a person)), that they are all therapeutic, which isn't necessarily the case, & will evolve to include uncommon factors.
Actually we all have personal maps ,visual or audio or any other sense in body and the way we shape experience with living through our lives .Once we understand them we draw parallels and try to synchronize good things for healthier existence
@InspiritiveNLP Thanks. I started training in NLP when I was 19. Studied for 12 years straight before I took a break. Studied under John Overdurf and Dr. Tad James and a few others. A lot of people think you can read a few books and take a few courses and you have it. But NLP is like a professional athlete or artist. It truly is an art, like a musician or guitarist, etc.
Very much so. Also, audio tapes are very effective. Paul Mackenna is somewhat out dated now but he's a brilliant talker and very good at what he does. Look him up...
I get the sense Mr. Grinder is very knowledgeable and has a lot of important info. to share. Unfortunately, I'm totally unfamiliar with NLP and had trouble grasping the process and distinctions he was trying to make. It would be great if there were a more expansive version of this video for the average person. At any rate, thanks very much for posting, I think I partially got the gist of things.
@InspiritiveNLP I am new to NLP, and I am curious to learn as much as I can. Can you please explain your statement here? What do you mean by a "model creation endeavour"? And what do you mean by "more modelling"? Thanks!
I just bought NLP New technology hopefully I can understand this system better. I was just really into Darren Brown doing his incredible feats of manipulation, had no idea you can actually help people
Thats "Play Pretend" part of second position. The problem is that as the understanding of what NLP is is changing with our understanding and the willingness of people in the position to make these proclamations to want to define what it encompases. Its presence and potential application may be seen in many areas but perhaps the definition should somehow be tethered to its core concept, Neuro-Linguistic Programming... A programing language.
The first (and therefor only) lucid, tangible presentation of what NLP is (is not) that I have seen. He does not actually give any concrete details of its application in the real world in this talk, but at least he seems to begin to outline what kind of thing it is. @JoeJacari I am intrigued (sincerely, I am not being "TH-cam facetious") by your comment of a month ago, and that of "mettabee" 3 months ago on this page. I do believe there is something nefarious about NLP though.
@DoobieDude56 he did. did you not hear him speaking? it's about modelling exceptional people, meaning, observing the way they do things, their conscious and unconscious actions/movements, asking them to go into detail about their mental processes and thoughts, their speech, physical actions and then imitating their ways of doing things for success He then says however not many NLP practitioners are taking the time to model successful people/geniuses, instead they are using old models from books
Okay, so the objective is to process ourselves unconsciously, in order to become a coded genius, superior to the average, and achieve resembling to the sucess standards of the time. Is everything okay here ?
recruit people modeling? please help me understand more of the intention here. Is it that Mr.Grinder seeks particular excellence models or more students / both. I have two special skills I can model, live in california and am open to positive dialog. Thank You.
guys this is a bit of a dangerous question but could nlp be used to design a worm? i'm sure that many of you are familiar with computer worms, but could a trained linguist use nlp and waking hypnosis to create a worm that can be transferred from one person to another verbally through the use of a well thought out paragraph? the person would mull the question in their mind(probably a paradox like The ship of Theseus) which could then lead to a psychological break down or a "system crash"
Which books would you recommend for someone who is serious about learning more? Admittedly i'm skeptical after coming across some indictments by the scientific community about its concreteness if you will but i have no real knowledge on the subject aside from a wiki article. I'm wondering if there are any books, papers or anything that address's those problems. Thanks for the upload.
Are there any pre-requisites, prior training or backgound you must have before you start learning NLP or can anyone jump into it. And how much of derren brown's uses of NLP in his show pertain to the overall applications of NLP?
we live NLP my rider friend. we live around you can find us among the rest of the mortals in clubs and supermarkets, playing with your mind, looking at your eye cues while you try to put up a story :-)
@InspiritiveNLP A better way of putting it, is that NLP is really an art from. You have to be able to flow with the techniques in an artistic way, every person and experience is diff.
@gauravdhamija Have you ever been to an actual training? The majority of practitioners don't get it. It's hard to go with the flow and allow each experience take on a life of it's own.
what is NLP, and talking about the unconscious mind, but as i know according to Neuroscience the unconscience mind is not Freud’s cauldron of see thing unmet needs, wants, and desires, but instead an almost incomprehensibly complex composite of processing “modules” that control almost everything we do day in and day out; consciousness, by comparison, is a miniscule domain.(David disalvo) and DR Kerry Spackman Winner of the 2009 KEA World Class Award for Creative Thinking, Kerry is one of those rare polymaths who can operate at the highest international level in multiple disciplines. He has a unique ability to make complex topics simple and engaging. say in his book the winner bible: YOU ARE NOT A COMPUTER The next problem with traditional self-help books is that they usually treat you as if you are some sort of computer that can be instantly re-programmed. They give you the impression that your life will be wonderful if you’d just run the ‘correct thoughts’ through your brain. But there are three major reasons why you’re not a computer and why this approach is doomed to fail: 1. Your brain doesn’t have one big centralized processor which controls everything like your PC does. Instead your brain is made up of many independent modules - or ‘mini brains’ - all doing their own independent things. 2. Many of these modules don’t even run on logic or words. So trying to reprogram those modules with words or ‘clever phrases’ is never going to work if they are causing you problems. So please can you explain how i restore my unconscience........... and if you want to tell me using hypnosis well here we can talk about hypnosis not nlp.
Hi, is there any hard science to prove NLP, I like the idea but I can't find anything concrete, its all anecdotal as far as I can get on the web. Cheers.
I'm impressed by Tony Robbins, and Grinder, and think modelling is powerful, but a question comes to mind. Aren't they overselling it by claiming you can produce the same results as a genius by modelling them? "Success leaves clues" Robbins says, but what about differences in natural abilities? Surely we can't all be as funny as Robin Williams or Jim Carey simply by modelling them, though I'm sure we could become a whole lot funnier than we were before.
So, if I'm getting this right - it's about digging a role-model and then copying them. O.k, I can go with that, to some degree. Not sure that it takes a Phd so say that though. And what about just learning from people we respect whilst still trying to be true to ourselves? Or is that too simplistic and un-jargon laden?
He's saying NLP is the Modeling of Excellence and Excellent Behavior, but 99% of it's practitioners are merely practicing NLP techniques and not Excellence!
No, I am not saying it makes one 'untrue' to oneself. I am agreeing with what I understand as the principles of NLP vis-a-vis learning from others. Where I differ, is that I don't make a big deal out of it and build pseudo-scientific guru-led training courses out of it. I may say that my parents are good role models for me, but I'm sure they'd be shocked to be called NLP instructors. So, to me, NLP is a business idea. Nice one, but won't get my money!
One example NLP for the laymen is the Law of God in the old testament, only by telling us what by Gods authority is sin, gave us the understanding of our own inability to follow the law perfectly! But the "Sins" must be paid for, its work in the body and your conscience by way of understanding, is is killing you... Paul argues this saying is then the law bad? No! But by it I learned whats going on and now see the need for and know about grace and Jesus' sacrifice for my sins etc... (paraphrasing lol go look it up!- And yes I am purposely using the gospel :) ) The Law is a in a mighty way perhaps a form of NLP. But measuring Gods knowledge with our own ideas is a lot like skipping a stone across a very large pond!
georges boustany For one I learned alot about myself, how I experience my reality, and what I observe and experience is my own representation of the world, not the world itself. Through my senses I give meaning to the world, and realizing that If I change my interpretation I change the meaning, helps a lot when dealing with all kinds of bothersome stuff. Helping others is also the most wonderful thing in the world.
I am going to take the time point out a couple of very "important factors". first of all, the modeling in NLP...goes far beyond your imagination of what you may think modeling is like. And its really interesting rather disappointing to see how you'r "limiting belief" of (be true to ourselve's) is holding you back. when you model and use a pattern of exellence it doesn't mean you are being untruthful. cause from that pattern then evolves "your own pattern of exellence"
With your limiting belief of (lets be true to ourselves) You are suggesting that Modeling something and incorporating it into your own life for better fulfillment and achievement makes you untruthful to yourself? we learn from our fellow species (human's) from the day we are born. we are learning machine's and good ones and cause of that learning is welcome at all stages. so go exploring and stop limiting your experiences because someone taught you that learning is "Not being yourself" ;)
Totally agree about the educational systems, what a waste of the most advanced computers on the p[planet, to compete against each other producing few winners & vast numbers of losers instead of nurturing their imagination & individual interests as part of an educational knowledge based society
Thank you John! Where should we be focusing our attention, and how do we balance it all? Just a thought? Go here to visit us - LANLP com - We teach global ecology and responsibility! Blessings....
his mouth was moving, words were coming out, but i still dont know what NLP is. since the co-creator of of NLP can't explain what it is, i had to 'resort' to the wikipedia page in which psychologists claim it to be new-age rubbish. to those claiming that one should take the course to understand NLP i say - you sound like a pyramid scheme pusher.
Looks like you didn't understand what John Grinder was saying because, according to you, "his mouth was moving, words were coming out, but i still dont know what NLP is." Go back and watch it as many times as you need to.
"We live in an age of accounting... dominated by left side of brain. We need to use more our right side in order to achieve historical balance." Very wise insight mr Grinder.
I had the pleasure to train with John Grinder. What a remarkable man. Very insightful.
He is talking about modelling. which, as I understand it is: How are doing what you are doing and is it working? An example could be 'How do you start conversations with people so well?' Or even ' How do you worry so well?' What special strategies are you using?
Wow this guy impressed the shit out of me. Was very clear in his description, didnt try to push it with just advertising.
Excellent perspective. So many people get confused over this. Excellence where its at
Modelling is such a sane approach to discovering, how something is done, Grinder & Bandler modeled successful therapists, Gendlin with his Focusing modeled successful clients-patients, "Therapeutic Factors" includes systems & techniques (be it context dependent or context independent),, though I think the "Common Factors Model", assumes (if it was a person)), that they are all therapeutic, which isn't necessarily the case, & will evolve to include uncommon factors.
both bander and grinder are very different in their style, has anyone seen both?
Thanks a lot for sharing and making clearer about the definition.
Excellent! Got a better understanding of NLP
this is so filled with jargon.. indecipherable for normal plebs like me
Actually we all have personal maps ,visual or audio or any other sense in body and the way we shape experience with living through our lives .Once we understand them we draw parallels and try to synchronize good things for healthier existence
Hi Neda, I agree. Applied NLP is a technology for enriching and transforming our personal maps with a multitude of patterns for doing so.
Thanks for uploading this, great video!
Noone comes close to Grinder + Bandler!
Chavalier you are right. thanks Inspiritive for this posting
what's then the best way to learn NLP? The seminars seem quite expensive, can you learn from a book?
@InspiritiveNLP Thanks. I started training in NLP when I was 19. Studied for 12 years straight before I took a break. Studied under John Overdurf and Dr. Tad James and a few others. A lot of people think you can read a few books and take a few courses and you have it. But NLP is like a professional athlete or artist. It truly is an art, like a musician or guitarist, etc.
genius, the
modeling of excelence
Very much so. Also, audio tapes are very effective. Paul Mackenna is somewhat out dated now but he's a brilliant talker and very good at what he does. Look him up...
Hi #UN#,
Thanks for sharing the well done NLP video.
#CN#
Is video is biudufuuu!! Is very guuud, laica nois lica big big tanquiu for malta!
I get the sense Mr. Grinder is very knowledgeable and has a lot of important info. to share. Unfortunately, I'm totally unfamiliar with NLP and had trouble grasping the process and distinctions he was trying to make. It would be great if there were a more expansive version of this video for the average person. At any rate, thanks very much for posting, I think I partially got the gist of things.
Does this work for people who got claustrofobhia?
@InspiritiveNLP
I am new to NLP, and I am curious to learn as much as I can. Can you please explain your statement here? What do you mean by a "model creation endeavour"? And what do you mean by "more modelling"? Thanks!
Hey this reminds me of the NLP techniques I am going over with Coach Hollywood. Also known as Doc Barham, this stuff is like MAGIC!
I just bought NLP New technology hopefully I can understand this system better. I was just really into Darren Brown doing his incredible feats of manipulation, had no idea you can actually help people
Exquisite.
Thats "Play Pretend" part of second position. The problem is that as the understanding of what NLP is is changing with our understanding and the willingness of people in the position to make these proclamations to want to define what it encompases. Its presence and potential application may be seen in many areas but perhaps the definition should somehow be tethered to its core concept, Neuro-Linguistic Programming... A programing language.
The first (and therefor only) lucid, tangible presentation of what NLP is (is not) that I have seen. He does not actually give any concrete details of its application in the real world in this talk, but at least he seems to begin to outline what kind of thing it is.
@JoeJacari
I am intrigued (sincerely, I am not being "TH-cam facetious") by your comment of a month ago, and that of "mettabee" 3 months ago on this page.
I do believe there is something nefarious about NLP though.
@DoobieDude56
he did. did you not hear him speaking? it's about modelling exceptional people, meaning, observing the way they do things, their conscious and unconscious actions/movements, asking them to go into detail about their mental processes and thoughts, their speech, physical actions and then imitating their ways of doing things for success
He then says however not many NLP practitioners are taking the time to model successful people/geniuses, instead they are using old models from books
Okay, so the objective is to process ourselves unconsciously, in order to become a coded genius, superior to the average, and achieve resembling to the sucess standards of the time. Is everything okay here ?
Great stuff!
recruit people modeling? please help me understand more of the intention here. Is it that Mr.Grinder seeks particular excellence models or more students / both. I have two special skills I can model, live in california and am open to positive dialog. Thank You.
guys this is a bit of a dangerous question but could nlp be used to design a worm?
i'm sure that many of you are familiar with computer worms, but could a trained linguist use nlp and waking hypnosis to create a worm that can be transferred from one person to another verbally through the use of a well thought out paragraph? the person would mull the question in their mind(probably a paradox like The ship of Theseus) which could then lead to a psychological break down or a "system crash"
Which books would you recommend for someone who is serious about learning more? Admittedly i'm skeptical after coming across some indictments by the scientific community about its concreteness if you will but i have no real knowledge on the subject aside from a wiki article. I'm wondering if there are any books, papers or anything that address's those problems. Thanks for the upload.
Are there any pre-requisites, prior training or backgound you must have before you start learning NLP or can anyone jump into it. And how much of derren brown's uses of NLP in his show pertain to the overall applications of NLP?
Yes he did. Watch it again. Modelling of excellence.
What does he mean by explicit model that can be applied in multiple contexts if it's well done?
we live NLP my rider friend. we live around you can find us among the rest of the mortals in clubs and supermarkets, playing with your mind, looking at your eye cues while you try to put up a story :-)
he mentioned western australia? how come please explain
@InspiritiveNLP A better way of putting it, is that NLP is really an art from. You have to be able to flow with the techniques in an artistic way, every person and experience is diff.
@gauravdhamija Have you ever been to an actual training? The majority of practitioners don't get it. It's hard to go with the flow and allow each experience take on a life of it's own.
John Grinder sure seems like a calm individual, don't you think? I wonder why? BTW, I added this to the video page at nlp50.
what is NLP, and talking about the unconscious mind, but as i know according to Neuroscience the unconscience mind is not Freud’s cauldron of see thing unmet needs, wants, and desires, but instead an almost incomprehensibly complex composite of processing “modules” that control almost everything we do day in and day out; consciousness, by comparison, is a miniscule domain.(David disalvo)
and DR Kerry Spackman Winner of the 2009 KEA World Class Award for Creative Thinking, Kerry is one of those rare polymaths who can operate at the highest international level in multiple disciplines. He has a unique ability to make complex topics simple and engaging. say in his book the winner bible:
YOU ARE NOT A COMPUTER
The next problem with traditional self-help books is that they usually treat you as if you are some sort of computer that can be instantly re-programmed. They give you the impression that your life will be wonderful if you’d just run the ‘correct thoughts’ through your brain. But there are three major reasons why you’re not a computer and why this approach is doomed to fail:
1. Your brain doesn’t have one big centralized processor which controls everything like your PC does. Instead your brain is made up of many independent modules - or ‘mini brains’ - all doing their own independent things.
2. Many of these modules don’t even run on logic or words. So trying to reprogram those modules with words or ‘clever phrases’ is never going to work if they are causing you problems.
So please can you explain how i restore my unconscience........... and if you want to tell me using hypnosis well here we can talk about hypnosis not nlp.
thanks for that. it's helpful.
Why have there no been any psychological research substantiating NLP empirically?
Hi, is there any hard science to prove NLP, I like the idea but I can't find anything concrete, its all anecdotal as far as I can get on the web. Cheers.
I guess he's found words to be a more effective form of communication than grunts, squeals and hand claps.
Wait, what?? He was reading bertrand russel's works when he was 9-10 YEARS OLD ??
I'm impressed by Tony Robbins, and Grinder, and think modelling is powerful, but a question comes to mind. Aren't they overselling it by claiming you can produce the same results as a genius by modelling them? "Success leaves clues" Robbins says, but what about differences in natural abilities? Surely we can't all be as funny as Robin Williams or Jim Carey simply by modelling them, though I'm sure we could become a whole lot funnier than we were before.
@crazymike44 yes, it seems like modeling has been forgotten.
@DoobieDude56
he did. did you not hear him speaking?
AWESOME!!
Look up Jean Baudrillard's "Vengeance of the Dead."
Not NLP, but it answers your question.
So, if I'm getting this right - it's about digging a role-model and then copying them. O.k, I can go with that, to some degree. Not sure that it takes a Phd so say that though. And what about just learning from people we respect whilst still trying to be true to ourselves? Or is that too simplistic and un-jargon laden?
This video was filmed in 2003. Do people still practice NLP today or is this a hoax?
He's saying NLP is the Modeling of Excellence and Excellent Behavior, but 99% of it's practitioners are merely practicing NLP techniques and not Excellence!
They haven't discovered temporal & spacial sub-modalities yet!
Time and space are submodalities themself (like color, brightnes...)
The difference is that they are the only common submodalities for all senses.
No, I am not saying it makes one 'untrue' to oneself. I am agreeing with what I understand as the principles of NLP vis-a-vis learning from others. Where I differ, is that I don't make a big deal out of it and build pseudo-scientific guru-led training courses out of it. I may say that my parents are good role models for me, but I'm sure they'd be shocked to be called NLP instructors. So, to me, NLP is a business idea. Nice one, but won't get my money!
When was this filmed?
8 years later I have your answer. It was filmed in 2003
Take a NLP Certification course and you WlLL UNDERSTAND. NOW!
One example NLP for the laymen is the Law of God in the old testament, only by telling us what by Gods authority is sin, gave us the understanding of our own inability to follow the law perfectly! But the "Sins" must be paid for, its work in the body and your conscience by way of understanding, is is killing you... Paul argues this saying is then the law bad? No! But by it I learned whats going on and now see the need for and know about grace and Jesus' sacrifice for my sins etc... (paraphrasing lol go look it up!- And yes I am purposely using the gospel :) ) The Law is a in a mighty way perhaps a form of NLP. But measuring Gods knowledge with our own ideas is a lot like skipping a stone across a very large pond!
people say nlp make a big diffference in ther life can you tell me please how.....or it s just showing offfffffff.
georges boustany For one I learned alot about myself, how I experience my reality, and what I observe and experience is my own representation of the world, not the world itself. Through my senses I give meaning to the world, and realizing that If I change my interpretation I change the meaning, helps a lot when dealing with all kinds of bothersome stuff. Helping others is also the most wonderful thing in the world.
Why is that remarkable. A normal 9 year old could understand Bertrand Russell with no problem.
UPLOAD GOOD VIDEO
I am going to take the time point out a couple of very "important factors". first of all, the modeling in NLP...goes far beyond your imagination of what you may think modeling is like. And its really interesting rather disappointing to see how you'r "limiting belief" of (be true to ourselve's) is holding you back. when you model and use a pattern of exellence it doesn't mean you are being untruthful. cause from that pattern then evolves "your own pattern of exellence"
With your limiting belief of (lets be true to ourselves) You are suggesting that Modeling something and incorporating it into your own life for better fulfillment and achievement makes you untruthful to yourself? we learn from our fellow species (human's) from the day we are born. we are learning machine's and good ones and cause of that learning is welcome at all stages. so go exploring and stop limiting your experiences because someone taught you that learning is "Not being yourself" ;)
Totally agree about the educational systems, what a waste of the most advanced computers on the p[planet, to compete against each other producing few winners & vast numbers of losers instead of nurturing their imagination & individual interests as part of an educational knowledge based society
Agreed, but it's also crushed by capitalism. Actually it's crushed by pretty much any ism when you think about it.
I think "Turtles all the way down"
Huh?
Yeah man i read the synopsis. Sound's Definitely like the kind of thing i'd get into.
similar to 146347458X ;)
what?
Read SnowCrash by Neal Stephenson - an interesting 'concept' re language
Before humans evolved to having two ears, apparently...
Thank you John! Where should we be focusing our attention, and how do we balance it all? Just a thought? Go here to visit us - LANLP com - We teach global ecology and responsibility! Blessings....
Sounds like technically. Fancy words, conveying NOTHING.
more moddeling people ;)
could this guy get any more wordy? haha
turn your head
Supercalafragilistic Expialidousious. LOL
Sounds like techno babble. Fancy words, conveying NOTHING.
I really hate auto spell checker.
Is this a weird cult?
his mouth was moving, words were coming out, but i still dont know what NLP is.
since the co-creator of of NLP can't explain what it is, i had to 'resort' to the wikipedia page in which psychologists claim it to be new-age rubbish.
to those claiming that one should take the course to understand NLP i say - you sound like a pyramid scheme pusher.
Looks like you didn't understand what John Grinder was saying because, according to you, "his mouth was moving, words were coming out, but i still dont know what NLP is." Go back and watch it as many times as you need to.