When was the last time HD brought anything to market cheaper using their economy of scale. The evo sporty whose R&D cost was covered long ago was still more expensive when the Indian Scout was a newcomer Zeitz doesn’t want to do anything cool, just bleed what little remains from the aging customer base. It’s a shame because I started on Sporty and was always hoping for an update that never came. They could easily updated it to be as powerful and light as a Ducati Scrambler.
@@docchung9085 I disagree, zeitz brought the Rev max engine( an exceptionally strong and efficient engine) adventure bike and two new sportsters ( RH 975 and RH1250 ) I have a Nightster special, a very impressive motorcycle with the custom ride mode set up.
Sorry but here in Europe a bike ‘being a real Harley’ is even more important than in the US. There are rows and rows of unsold rev-max sportsters here at the dealership, they are not considered real Harleys.. I would rather get the SVM V1200 than a rev-max sportster, but would push come to shove I would just get a used ‘real’ EVO Sportster.
Agree... The FXR style is timeless and should be in production in some form under the H-D brand. I also do like this new 1250 motor liquid cooled motor...solid power and economy...I would really consider one.
Wow one minute in and already disagree with this guy which I’ve never have. Harley doesn’t need another model or a “Cooler” model they need cheaper models. That’s why people liked the sporster
I'm here for the revmax sportsters. I don't want to see them held back by nostalgia anymore. They were intended to complete against lighter, sportier imports and that's where they belong. The softail standard is a good option for the typical Harley guys.
Harley needs to innovate but dropping the sportster was not the right choice. The Sportster S and Nighster S should not have been replacements but an addition.
It's so interesting that alot of guys don't seem to place any value on performance. The Sportster s is far more advanced, lighter, and in a whole other galaxy when it comes to objective performance. What's that worth to you? This is like complaining that the z costs more than an Altima lol. It's supposed to. Was listening to the 5 dirty bikers podcast the other day. They were talking about the buell super cruiser. What struck me way they were complaining that it was too expensive and you could get a lowrider st for about the same money. Like 450lbs and 170hp didn't account for any of the value. That's when I started to realize that Harley guys, for the most part, don't care about actual performance.
I've said it for years now. Take the rev max engine and put it into a low rider s like frame with all types of electric goodies like ride modes, anti locking brakes, and LED lights. Keep it under 20k with 150 horses. You want a more traditional big twin? Milwaukee 8 for ya. You want a high revving speeder with comfortable cruiser ergonomics? This. I hope they bring that out for the 2025 release.
How's the family? All healthy and happy, I hope. Harley is the Vegimite/Marmite of motorcycles, you either love them of hate them, or both if you grew up with them. Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada
Not for nothing, Harley should have just handed their VR1000 race engine over to the Buell division in the early 2000s instead of using it in the V-Rod. Then they would have already built a product to fill the new Sportster S role, and continued to build a more traditional Sportster? (Maybe w/ 4 valve heads?)
People don't buy the new Harley Sportster or Nightster because they are too expensive, people don't buy them because they are too ugly 😊. If Harley would make something good looking like in the olden days, or a nice modern classic, people will buy them. Especially if the price is right, like Royal Enfield.
Royal Enfield.. a company run by a biker, that is also a pretty smart business man. Harley is clearly not catering to the bikers. Or even asking them what they like and want.
Well, also for cars people may like the classic look with a modern feel. The modern Mini and the Fiat 500 were a big success. The new Chevy Camaro you don't see very often. I would buy it if it wouldn't use so much gas and would be a bit cheaper. However, nowadays I like motorcycles more :-)
The New CEO of HD dropped all low Cost Models raised the prices of existing models to the Dealers and got paid $22 Million in 2022 with Bonuses. HD looses $100 Million per year on Electric bikes. The Previous CEO wanted to sell some entry Level Bikes plus electric kids bikes ect. I have no interest in riding any motorcycle with Forward Controls .. the Pan America is too Heavy and two Expensive. I just saw a low miles Pan America for $11,000.00 I recently learned that the HD HG-500 and HG-750 had a lot of Reliability Problems .
Yes, electric bikes are not it. I have even heard kids saying that mopeds and motorcycles should make sound. The HD Pan America is indeed too big and heavy. Maybe good for touring but I wouldn't like to get stuck with it off-road.
I own a MY22 Sportster 1250S since new, I have also owned a Indian and Triumph Bobber and the S beats them both hands down, The Sportster 1250S handles very well, suspension is superior to the Indian and Triumph and the old school Sportsters. It is also the 3rd fastest 0-100kmh Harley in their current model availability if you include the Live wire. Like all Harleys you play with exhaust and intake and the Sportster has a fantastic growl whether idling or revving out on the road. I have never had any break downs or issues with this bike.
Exactly! I had a last year cyclone with the tube frame. Had the thunderstorm heads wich were sorta continued with the 1200 sportster later on. That bike had so much more power then any srock sportster . Only thing I did to the Buell was a Vance & hines exhaust & a S&S super E carb. Was 100+ Hp. Why couldn't that engine have made it's way into a Sportster? It would have lived up to it's name again.
@@jamesberry276 Most of the Buell engine parts are sold in the Screaming Eagle Catalog and can be installed on Sportster motors. The last years of the Evo motor in the Buell called the Thunderstorm had different engine cases, Lighter stronger crankshaft, Piston Oilers. A Different head with much better flow. Down draft fuel injection. Higher compression. An oil cooler with an air scoop. Air Scoops to cool the rear cylinder and a thermostatically controlled cooling fan to pull air across the motor while moving or sitting still. Buell solved so many of HD's reliability problems and had way more power. It also shifted much better with dual shift rails. Buell proved that HD could have made their bikes more reliable had they wanted to. It took competition from Indian to force HD to up their Game,
@@jamesberry276 I paid $4,500.00 for my 2008 Buell Ulysess in 2022 with 15,000 miles in it. It needed new tires and spark plugs. After I put a new rear tire on it I noticed that it had a dry wheel bearing. I was going to order new wheel bearings, but had a wheel bearing failure on my first 210 mile Trip. I found on Buell blogs that Buell upgraded to a rear wheel that has 3 larger wheel bearings instead of two small wheel bearings. There is a part Number for a compete kit with wheel , bearings axle and spacers that was like $740 with shipping. My bike came with side cases and a Top case ..
Well, I'm not sure if 'd pay 26K for the Buell, but I did finally made the switch to ADV bro land and got me a Pan America. I am absolutely baffled by Harley's shortsightedness in not taking this platform way further into a mid-size ADV, a naked (the Bronx), etc. etc. etc. It's a phenomenal engine, top spec components, easy to ride and will outhandle any traditional Harley, but that's not what the traditionalists want. I think you're 100% correct that HD needs to make their own Super Cruiser. They tried and failed with the Sportster S primarily because of the design, although I do like the bike myself, but I'm too tall for it. Pan Am fits me like a glove. Awesome video as always, I wish you did make the calls at Harley 😂
Awesome, congrats. It's definitely a tall man's bike but to me ADV bikes are the best of all worlds. As comfy as baggers and quicker than all but the sportiest naked bikes. Enjoy the ride and watch you don't lose your licence with 150hp on tap.
The Buell creation looks more like a traditional FX Harley, whereas the SportsterS looks like a funky metric bike. Would it sell? Maybe if the price was right. 😮
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Harley drops a model to compete with the Buell Super Cruiser sometime early next year. With the hype and main complaint about Buell being dealer support, seems to be a no-brainer for Harley to take advantage of.
Everyone is an expert at what Harley Davidson should or shouldn't do. I have owned nothing but Sportsters, and current,ly a 16 Night Rod Special. I have been riding for 50 years and have had other brands too,. It was time for a new Sportster, they got 60 years out of the former design. Buell? They did that already. My next bike will be a Sportster S and I'll even go touring with it. Thank you for an informative video.
You're welcome and enjoy the Sportster S. It looks like a great bike although touring on it would be pretty brave. I don't see too many luggage options.
@@FredNouvertne Now days I think a lot of Harley Bikers haul their Bikes to Rallies in Toy Haulers. No Luggage options necessary. th-cam.com/video/r2ERfv15EsI/w-d-xo.html
@ Different Spokes TV: Thank you for this video! Here in Germany and in Europe in general the Sportster S actually did pretty decent at first saleswise. Never saw a Nightster outside a dealership though. Europe is naked bikes and then adventure bikes first and foremost. Everyone wanted the Bronx, nobody understood the Nightster. Do you think we'll actually see a Euro5+ version of the Super Cruiser for the Europesn market? But yes, I feel the same, HD has to do something with their RevMax platform. The PanAm is done in Europe which is a shame. But I see the same huge opportunity for Harley Davidson as you do: The new Lowrider S / ST as a RevMax model. And on the cruiser platform we should see the glorious return of the legendary Sport Glide as the Lowrider S replacement. Nobody could deny that move. I feel done right = success guaranteed
I bought the Softail Standard (FXST) in preference to the Revolution-engined Sportster because the 1200 Evolution-engined Sportster had been discontinued. The FXST is a nice bike but I would trade it for an air cooled Sportster if and when H-D reintroduces this model. Harley has the expertise to update the engine to be emissions compliant ( 8 valve engine ) and to improve handling and braking. Wrap it in budget livery and produce it in large numbers and it will attract new to Harley buyers more than the meagre offerings of the recent past ( Street 500 et.al.)
The biggest issue isn't the styling. Though it is part of it. The Sportster S is $17k. The Nightster Special is $13.5k. The Nightster is $12k. But a Street Bob S 114 is $17k and a Softail Standard is $15k. The Softail platform is 10x more versatile as far as customization, upgrades and lifestyle. The EVO Sportsters had a huge pool of customizable options plus the nostalgia for most riders.
One of my local dealer runs the old Sportster upgrade program where you can sell back a new Sportster in your first year towards a new Softtail or Tour model for what you paid for it.
Different Spokes TV...i agree! In fact, harley has an opportunity to do that easily. You see, for AMA harley created a bike for the super hooligan category. Its technically a pan america, BUT they stripped it down and gave it the sportster S tank. It looks like an amazing upright naked bike. If harley can get that REASONABLY PRICED, it would sell like hotcakes.
I am in the Philippines. Very few Sportster S and Pan Ams being sold. The baggers are still where the demand is. Other top seller is the BMW GS 1300. In Asia, its all about the brand appeal and heritage and less about the top ride specs.
A stripped down road king frame with king of the baggers suspension, with a 1250 rev-max in it would be an interesting bike. But the price has to be right.
I loved the sportster s. The revmax 1250 is a great motor. One of the best bikes ive ever riden. Is it compromising yes, but man what a bike, its a ton of fun.
I actually disagree that HD should make a "super cruiser" type bike. You said it yourself at the beginning of the video, people tend to enjoy the lower powered more classically designed bikes. The people that love a performance cruiser build them out themselves anyway by upgrading their Dynas, Softails, or baggers. What HD really needs to do is get back to what biking is all about, and make some cool bikes that are affordable. Look at companies like Triumph or Royal Enfield, they're making classically designed bikes that are compliant with euro emissions standards. HD could do the same thing if they wanted to
I agree whole heartedly.... that's EXACTLY what I said to a few HD Dealers in the past few years. Take the PanAm engine and put it in a different frame, so to compete with the Indian Challenger. Now with Buell they have another reason to rebuild the Super Glide. I currently have a down payment of $1000 on a Super Cruiser. 😎 Let's see what the next year has to offer.
@@DifferentSpokesTV Yes, put the PanAm engine into a FXR frame and you have a REAL Super Glide. That's what Buell / Roland Sands have done. HD could label it a Super Glide 3.
Im from Europe (Portugal), I have a sportster r 2005, and always have read and been acused of not having a real bike, not a real Harley. Now the evo is the real Harley.... Just test the bike and ride what you like. And yes something like the EVO with more power and 6 guears would be nice.
The Rev max bikes are NOT too expensive for what they are. The suspension, accessories, tech,and the engineering is truly amazing inside the Rev max engine. I do agree they should have something under ten grand .
Yes, the Pan America is priced competitively and now the Nightster is too. The Sportster S is a bit much since it cost 15k when it came out and now costs 17k. That's a big hike.
The real problem is Harley are pricing the "starter" bikes way out of reach of new riders -so why in H would they pay approx 24K for a "sportster level" bike when they don't buy a 19K bike now?
@@DifferentSpokesTV Agree totally. Seems KTM can do it with the 1390.
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I've actually seen one of the new Sportster S in the M25 West (UK) one time in the summer, so yeah... I guess there's at least one out there in the UK.
The biggest problem with the Sportster S is the price. Otherwise it's a very good bike. The old Evo can remain in mothballs in my opinion. Just keep buying and selling the tens of thousands of used Evo Sportsters in North America.
@@DifferentSpokesTV There are now Hundreds of bot channels spreading fake info on new bikes and new Models. It looks like the Revised 2025 Tenere 700 may be flex fuel capable. More air directed to the radiator. Looks like a few upgrades.
Where I live in Europe the majority of Harleys are Road Kings, followed by Fat Boys and Softail Heritage. The Sportster S is a good bike but it ain't a real Harley IMO. There's plenty of Sportsters for sale, so I'd get one without question. Right now I have a Springer Classic.
I agree wholeheartedly agree with Harley building this bike. I'm guessing that Harley is afraid of cannibalizing the profitable big twin market and offending the traditionalists. They may also be holding off on building the Super American while they prove and improve the powertrain. Finally there is also the matter of the modular frame the Sportster/PanAm which is just weird to old guys like me. The market is ripe for an FXR style aftermarket frame and swing arm kit for the revmax engines.
The new Sportster line up has three problems in my book: 1) They look bad at least if you are looking from one side 2) Too expensive for what you get. 3) The seating postion isn`t cruiser like, nor is it a naked bike. Every Triumph in the classic series looks better and you will find a model where you can sit on and feel comfortable. And they are cheaper. So why buying these strange Harleys? Indian has revised its Scout line up, and at least they are looking much more pleasing to the eye as these two Sportster modells. And the riding experience isn`t too bad according to the internet. So no, Harley has to think about where they wana go with their entry line up. At the moment and also in the past (Street series) they don`t fit into the european or american market.
The problem with the "young rider" is that most of them feel no special need to get a Harley. They might like HD's but they are perfectly willing to consider other brands and types of bikes. And once they start looking at other brands the fact of HD's horrible value becomes hard to ignore. The Super Cruiser might be nice as far as spec but it is also a poor value. How many "young riders" can afford a $29,000 (after taxes and fees) for a bike that's a 2 hour bike? At that price level you can essentially buy any bike you want, and people at that point are looking at the big bore euro ADV bikes. Or, a Harley Touring bike. Triumph and Royal Enfield have done a very good job capturing the young rider market. They show us you don't need some 175hp monster to get the "young rider." I have a low rider s, I love the bike it is easily powerful enough even in stock form. But everytime I make my monthly payment I groan at what a poor value it was compared to a R1250GS (what I was also looking at buying, honestly what made the decision is all my friends ride harleys 😑)
Yeah, what ever happened to the Bronx and 975 ADV bikes? HD sales keep dropping like a rock and only their financing and t-shirt divisions are making money. Added to HD's costs cutting, R&D forget that, engineering no way, just keep making the same old stuff with new paint and up the MSRP. Better to look to Indian for a super cruiser.
I thonk that if they go for a middleweight ADV it will have to be a ground up new design, not just the current Pan America with a different head and less hp. That's why they pulled it. No one wants a 90hp 530lb adv bike.
HD needs to make a plethora of changes but adding the equivalent of the Buell Super Cruiser is definitely not one of them. As it pertains to the Sportster line up now, HD completely turned its back on a model that had what appeared to be a proven formula for success in that the 883 and 1200 variants allowed for entry into the American V Twin world at a price point that allowed access to a number of different people which, importantly, in my opinion had both the traditional "potato potato" thump that v-twin enthusiasts enjoyed along with a number of options from both HD and outside purveyors to customize to the hilt. The current 975 Nightster and Sportster 1200S are crap. They sound awful, they are awkwardly uncomfortable (especially the 1200S with it's ridiculous stretched out forward pegs coupled to an uncomfortable rider's triangle) and there is no "real" passenger accommodation for the 1200S. Additionally, HD added features to it (riding modes, etc...) that traditional newbie (or at least new to HD) riders shouldn't want and definitely do not need. The Nightster and Sportster 1200S, in my opinion, will go by the wayside like the VRod with HD providing no support for these models in the next few years. The Buell Super Cruiser appears ridiculously impressive on paper. I haven't ridden it but I have personally ridden virtually every HD model offered over the past 20 years. HD already has the equivalent of the Buell Super Cruiser in two guises - - the Lowrider S and Lowrider ST versions. While not sporting anywhere near the claimed 175 horsepower of the Super Cruiser, each comes stock with the 117. Anyone with deep pockets could arguably could arguably go up to Stage 4 on either the Lowrider S or Lowrider ST and get what may be a similar riding experience of the Super Cruiser... HD needs to get people back into the motorcycle riding fold. I argue that what keeps other motorcycle companies relevant is their collective ability to offer a variety of models to a number of different people. By way of example, I am really impressed with Triumph and their 400 offerings at a fantastic pricepoint; also impressed with Honda and their 125cc retro offerings and Royal Enfield and what they have done with their 650cc parallel twin powerplant models. Now I realize that HD is not Triumph, Honda, nor Royal Enfield. And that is the conundrum. HD 's sole identity is the v-twin (even though throughout its history it did offer a few different engine configurations including single cylinders!). And the fact that the v-twin is their sole identity provides a conundrum - - how to bring new riders (and riders enjoying other brands) into the fold while sticking to its essence. To me, the solution needs to be an approachable, smaller v-twin done in a few different guises. Why not a smaller v-twin with anything approaching 50hp, offered in cruiser, standard, and maybe enduro/dual sport guise with a few wonderful options to hop up? I normally only have two cups of coffee in the AM; this 3rd cup got me typing... Thanks for the video. I did enjoy it. Ryan
I think harley will beat buell to the punch. They could slap something together that would compete nicely with that super cruiser, with parts they already have available. 150hp 1250, pan am front end, nightster dual shock rear. Easy.
The Buell bike in the video looks miles better than the current Harley Sportster iterations. But, I can't help but ask, if the Chinese can build an air cooled sportster, why can't Harley??
Yes, I agree with this idea (sorry Buell). But HD Corp doesn't seem interested in doing anything else but pushing large expensive baggers on retirees who can afford their outrageous price tags. It's like HD gave up on attracting younger customers that may not even exist anymore for them. Otherwise they would have made sexy, affordable scramblers out of the Street platform, instead of these lackluster, styleless, afterthought motorcycles nobody wants. Yes pulling the EVO Sportster was a bad idea and replacing it with these hideous Batmanesque.... things was the capper. But again HD isn't interested in pursuing affordability. Maybe they just gave up on their future. As to me, I now ride a heavily customized (scrambling roadster) Sportster 883C which is my favorite bike ever. HD has just been cruising further and further away from what I love about traditional Harleys. Pity. But I don't like the company, only their older, more romantic models, the (nice) people who ride them and the independent mechanics who work on them. HURRAY FOR BUELL that I can't afford hahaha😅
I would be riding a nightster right now if they had a 1250 version. Instead, I have a Low Rider S. The Sportster S just isn't for me, and apparently, a lot of other people too. It won't be around much longer either. So, would i buy a Harley super cruiser if they made it and actually got the styling right? I would buy it tomorrow!! I would trade in my LRS that I've done so much work to in a heartbeat if they built something like that super cruiser bike! I would even trade for the Bronx if they put that 1250 in it. Yes! Yes, i want a 1250, rev max, super cruiser or street fighter, or something that doesn't look like the Sportster S! Please!
If your point is that HD should build a super-cruiser with matching super-performance, you are right. But they need to make it look a LOT more handsome than that Buell monstrosity. Why it has 2 different wheel designs (F & R), I have no clue. And that radiator is just way too in-your-face., etc etc. Another problem is that Harley will NEVER make a cheap(er) super-bike. They had a wonderful opportunity with their Pan America. It is a good bike. Could have been a really very serious competitor against the 1250GS and the Multistrada if only they could have priced it better (and marketed it a bit more aggressively). But no, it seems that Harley is not too interested in selling a lot of motorcycles...
Harley needs to abandon the budget line entirely. They absolutely can't compete and never have. The budget Harley is the used Harley. Harley needs to build premium motorcycles and trikes for riders over 50 and that's it.
ALL Harleys look the same to me. Whenever I hear someone droning on and on (not you,Mr Spokes!) about all the different models and mods and whatnot, I long for sweet death. And I definitely don’t understand the Eric Buell worship. It’s way past time to let that man rest in peace. The fact that anyone still mentions his name is a sign of how deeply mired in the past the world of Harley is. (Not to discredit his work) And people act like this new Buell is really something special. THIS is the bike we’ve been waiting for all this time! THIS is the motorcycle Harley should have made! THIS is what we want! THIS is what we’ve been talking about this whole time! And I’m like,really? Why?! You mean to say that if Harley would make this bike everyone would buy one?! I don’t see it. It’s very plain,bordering on homely,with no real standout features that I can see. In fact,it looks exactly like a Harley! But if this plain,black,Amish looking motorcycle is what you Harley guys want,then God bless you. I hope that SOMETIME in my lifetime,Harley makes the bike that makes you all happy. 😊🎉
The concept bike looks good to me although the production model will have a way uglier exhaust which everyone will replace anyways. I think the standout feature of the Buell is 175hp which is a pretty good feature for a 450lb bike.
@@verlinswarey507 you have a point, I've owned a couple of Harley's and with that being said I always wish for something a little more or different with any model I look at.
"I long for sweet death." LMAO. Nailed it right there. Harley's and Harley people are boring as duck. I always watch to see what Harley is doing, and where they're going. But it's an expensive cult I've never desired to be a part of.
Of the 15 Motorcycles I have owned, 0 have been Harley Davidson and 1 is a 2008 Buell Ulysess that puts all HD's except the Pan American to shame. Not every one wants to ride a "Road Coach" but that's all HD makes beside the Pan American .. The Sportster S may have a modern liquid cooled engine but it's handling really sucks. I did almost buy and Indian FTR-1200. I just didn't feel like fabricating all the brackets to add luggage.
I'm on my 3rd Evo Sporty. The curent one I bought used. I put 6,000 miles on it this year. It handles better than my 03 Road King and can out run it. I have yet to use all of the power available, so where do you come off saying they are bad handling and slow? i lnow I lnow "compared to...Kawazippos bla bla bla"I don't ride on a dragstrip and the road is not a race track.
Well, you can make them as fast as you want in a straight line if you put enough parts on them. But they are heavy and most 650cc bikes will outrun them in the twisties.
💯!!! Agree Harley should make their version of the Super Cruiser using tech and the Revmax engine. With just a SE Air breather, Fuel Moto’s pipe, and a tune. FM made 147whp with a Pan American. That’s a little over 160 crank HP. Make it light and handle. It wouldn’t have to as good or powerful as the Super Cruiser to be a big hit and sell extremely well AND over come the it has to be a 45 degree air cooled thing. Not to replace anything they are doing now only to add to what they now offer and make it a profitable success. MoCo’s biggest problem their communism agenda supporting woke ceo & board. They don’t care what the market or shareholders want. Only supporting the globalist agenda including pushing battery bikes nobody associated with freedom & riding Harley Davidsons want.
Harley's problem isn't so much they don't know how to make motorcycles, Harley's problem is THEIR STUPID CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER and BOARD. 2008-2012 Harley Davidson XR1200. Unsold and discontinued.
Pretty much was the Buell super cruiser before there was a Buell (Rotax) engine. Probably the response from the younger generation today about such things would be, "ok boomer."
Both the Buell and the Harley are pretty ugly in my opinion. But really Harley sold their soul to their customer base decades ago. Watching them struggle to escape it with minimal commitment while searching for a silver bullet to solve it all, is entertaining. Harley is going to have to produce a couple of 'non traditional' bikes, and run them at a loss for a while to get out of this. Building a decent enough bike, then ditching it after 2 years doesn't appear to be working. But hey, let's try that again. Fifth / sixth / seventh times the charm!
Sorry but your video is calling out the Sporster S and you give us a $24K comparison? Unfair in my view. The Sporter S,Nighster and Pan America are exactly what HD needs, evolutionary and performance driven machines. No more the old potato potato crap that HD has been overpricing for the past years. HD now only needs to bring these down in price by slashing costs or getting rid of some big CEOs and admins.
The new sportster is really not pretty in person. Not sure if you can put enough lipstick on that pig to make her pretty. Old sporty for 3-5k would be my pick.
I live in Norway that has a large for europe Harley community and i have never seen a Sportster S on the roads here. Its simply too ugly, too expensive and too ugly:p I dont like the Buell either and would get a old school sportster any day. Lets face it if you want performance you get European or Japanese bike. Cant see that Buell ever competeing against a Yamaha MT09, Ducati Streetfighter, BMW S1000 or the like. If you want a supercruiser the Rocket 3 or Ducati Diavel seem just so much better thought out bikes than the Buell. Its been a long time since Harley came out with anything i would consider buying, not that they dont have nice bikes but over here they are just way way too expensive. A Softail Standard STARTS at 30 thousand USD here....
That's insane. You really have to want a Harley to pay that for a Softail Standard. I guess the Sportster S will have a tough time selling for those prices too.
Sure they should, but HD will not build such a bike. Bored room politics & all that crap & they won't be able to charge enough for it. They should, but they won't....
Harley-Davidson does make an affordable bike in Japan .... Have you seen the XR350 Harley-Davidson that is a Street Tracker style ? It is a remnant of the old XR1200..I disagree with the announcer when he said the sportsters didn't handle well. .. is that why for 50 years they won the mile dirt track against every Major brands made and still today ? Not to mention the VR1000 sport bike ? Announcers today like to blame Harley for everything but without much knowledge of the product. . Canadians being the worst informed and living closer to Milwaukee then I do here in the United States .. best Canadian based announcer is just another Harley heater bringing us another Harley hating story... As he told you why all Canadians hate Harleys .. the Canadians have to pay $3,000 more for a brand new sporty "$" ... Here's what I got to say to that ..fu
14 k, you bumped your head. They should make an entry level sporty for around 8k. Just lower the price to 8 k on the new nightster and theyd sell out of them. But money grubbin bastards gonna be money grubbin bastards. Let em fold. Theyre garbage over priced and a joke in the motorcycle community
Yes it was butt ugly. I was on a pan than and wouldnt have a evo fxr for free. But turns out it was better then any other garbage they put out. Except my pan
@@domicam100 agree. There’s just something that looks wrong about the big twin motor with the short primary (where the gearbox is close to the engine). I’ve been in the position where I could buy a mint Shovelhead fxr, but I passed. Butt-ugly.
Wow one minute in and already disagree with this guy which I’ve never have. Harley doesn’t need another model or a “Cooler” model they need cheaper models. That’s why people liked the sporsters
I'm sure they could have kept them and even improved them and passed emissions. If they really wanted liquid cooling. They could have kept the sportster lineup with a liquid cooled 45 degree v twin or even a twin cooled like the milwaukee 8. Anything but drop it would have been a better choice. If they're going to add new models, do it with other types of motorcycles. Hell, they could have liquid cooled it and made it look air cooled as well like triumph does with their modern classics. They could do all of that and kept the character of the old Sporty.
You nailed it. HD needs affordable rides not overpriced machines. All models prior to the 2022 models were just overpriced pieces of junk, now they are just overpriced amazing machines. HD needs to cut costs down. I am actually shopping for a new Sporter S next year but cannot justify the msrp
H.D should build the Bronx !!! That would bring new crowds and make money.
Gotta say the BUELL screams FXR heritage and looks freakin’ amazing outta-the-box🎯
You mean they can build a water cooled, Harley looking cruiser and not have it look like a pile of crap?
Looking at you "Sportster S".
When was the last time HD brought anything to market cheaper using their economy of scale. The evo sporty whose R&D cost was covered long ago was still more expensive when the Indian Scout was a newcomer
Zeitz doesn’t want to do anything cool, just bleed what little remains from the aging customer base.
It’s a shame because I started on Sporty and was always hoping for an update that never came. They could easily updated it to be as powerful and light as a Ducati Scrambler.
@@docchung9085 I disagree, zeitz brought the Rev max engine( an exceptionally strong and efficient engine) adventure bike and two new sportsters
( RH 975 and RH1250 ) I have a Nightster special, a very impressive motorcycle with the custom ride mode set up.
Sorry but here in Europe a bike ‘being a real Harley’ is even more important than in the US. There are rows and rows of unsold rev-max sportsters here at the dealership, they are not considered real Harleys.. I would rather get the SVM V1200 than a rev-max sportster, but would push come to shove I would just get a used ‘real’ EVO Sportster.
I always though that performance was more important there but I guess if you're shelling out the big bucks for a Harley you want the potato, potato.
You are funny. Sportsters are slow and handle like Crap. My 2008 Buell Ulysess eats them for lunch . 103 HP from the same platform stock .
@mikeskidmore6754 You right, but don't pretend you don't know why people buy Harleys.
Same @bmp72
@@mikeskidmore6754 I really couldn't care less. I don't ride bike to go fast. 😀
Agree... The FXR style is timeless and should be in production in some form under the H-D brand. I also do like this new 1250 motor liquid cooled motor...solid power and economy...I would really consider one.
Wow one minute in and already disagree with this guy which I’ve never have. Harley doesn’t need another model or a “Cooler” model they need cheaper models. That’s why people liked the sporster
Anyone who wants the old sportster look in the used market, they will ALWAYS be there and for the price you want! Go wild !
They would charge $20,000 for the $13,000 worth😅😅😅😅
Probably.
I'm here for the revmax sportsters. I don't want to see them held back by nostalgia anymore. They were intended to complete against lighter, sportier imports and that's where they belong. The softail standard is a good option for the typical Harley guys.
Good point. The Sportster S is now more expensive than the Softail Standard.
Harley needs to innovate but dropping the sportster was not the right choice. The Sportster S and Nighster S should not have been replacements but an addition.
It's so interesting that alot of guys don't seem to place any value on performance. The Sportster s is far more advanced, lighter, and in a whole other galaxy when it comes to objective performance. What's that worth to you? This is like complaining that the z costs more than an Altima lol. It's supposed to. Was listening to the 5 dirty bikers podcast the other day. They were talking about the buell super cruiser. What struck me way they were complaining that it was too expensive and you could get a lowrider st for about the same money. Like 450lbs and 170hp didn't account for any of the value. That's when I started to realize that Harley guys, for the most part, don't care about actual performance.
Absolutely.
... Though.
Would require that Harley gets smart, non-risk avert people on top. That doesnt seem like something Harley wants.
I've said it for years now. Take the rev max engine and put it into a low rider s like frame with all types of electric goodies like ride modes, anti locking brakes, and LED lights. Keep it under 20k with 150 horses. You want a more traditional big twin? Milwaukee 8 for ya. You want a high revving speeder with comfortable cruiser ergonomics? This. I hope they bring that out for the 2025 release.
That would be a bombshell. Unfortunately it looks like we're getting minor upgrades to existing platforms only.
How's the family? All healthy and happy, I hope. Harley is the Vegimite/Marmite of motorcycles, you either love them of hate them, or both if you grew up with them.
Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada
We're all well, thanks! I hope the colours on the west coast are as nice as they are in Ontario.
Not for nothing, Harley should have just handed their VR1000 race engine over to the Buell division in the early 2000s instead of using it in the V-Rod.
Then they would have already built a product to fill the new Sportster S role, and continued to build a more traditional Sportster? (Maybe w/ 4 valve heads?)
People don't buy the new Harley Sportster or Nightster because they are too expensive, people don't buy them because they are too ugly 😊. If Harley would make something good looking like in the olden days, or a nice modern classic, people will buy them. Especially if the price is right, like Royal Enfield.
Royal Enfield.. a company run by a biker, that is also a pretty smart business man.
Harley is clearly not catering to the bikers. Or even asking them what they like and want.
With your Mentaly .. GM would still be selling '57 Chevies, just with a few modern upgrades.
Well, also for cars people may like the classic look with a modern feel. The modern Mini and the Fiat 500 were a big success. The new Chevy Camaro you don't see very often. I would buy it if it wouldn't use so much gas and would be a bit cheaper. However, nowadays I like motorcycles more :-)
The New CEO of HD dropped all low Cost Models raised the prices of existing models to the Dealers and got paid $22 Million in 2022 with Bonuses. HD looses $100 Million per year on Electric bikes.
The Previous CEO wanted to sell some entry Level Bikes plus electric kids bikes ect. I have no interest in riding any motorcycle with Forward Controls .. the Pan America is too Heavy and two Expensive. I just saw a low miles Pan America for $11,000.00 I recently learned that the HD HG-500 and HG-750 had a lot of Reliability Problems .
Yes, electric bikes are not it. I have even heard kids saying that mopeds and motorcycles should make sound. The HD Pan America is indeed too big and heavy. Maybe good for touring but I wouldn't like to get stuck with it off-road.
I own a MY22 Sportster 1250S since new, I have also owned a Indian and Triumph Bobber and the S beats them both hands down, The Sportster 1250S handles very well, suspension is superior to the Indian and Triumph and the old school Sportsters. It is also the 3rd fastest 0-100kmh Harley in their current model availability if you include the Live wire. Like all Harleys you play with exhaust and intake and the Sportster has a fantastic growl whether idling or revving out on the road. I have never had any break downs or issues with this bike.
That looks like a great bike. I wonder why they didn't just leave it with 150hp though.
Bring back the old evo!!! Nice video- great job!!! Cheers!! Illinois,USA
How about a much upgraded good handling Sportster frame with a 103 HP air cooled 1203 CC Buell Thunderstorm motor? With 6 speed transmission.
I'll take 2
Exactly!
I had a last year cyclone with the tube frame.
Had the thunderstorm heads wich were sorta continued with the 1200 sportster later on.
That bike had so much more power then any srock sportster .
Only thing I did to the Buell was a Vance & hines exhaust & a S&S super E carb.
Was 100+ Hp.
Why couldn't that engine have made it's way into a Sportster?
It would have lived up to it's name again.
@@jamesberry276 Most of the Buell engine parts are sold in the Screaming Eagle Catalog and can be installed on Sportster motors. The last years of the Evo motor in the Buell called the Thunderstorm had different engine cases, Lighter stronger crankshaft, Piston Oilers. A Different head with much better flow. Down draft fuel injection. Higher compression. An oil cooler with an air scoop. Air Scoops to cool the rear cylinder and a thermostatically controlled cooling fan to pull air across the motor while moving or sitting still. Buell solved so many of HD's reliability problems and had way more power. It also shifted much better with dual shift rails. Buell proved that HD could have made their bikes more reliable had they wanted to. It took competition from Indian to force HD to up their Game,
Interesting!
Thanx 4 the info.
With used XB prices currently very reasonable,
I may snag one.
Great fun bikes!
@@jamesberry276 I paid $4,500.00 for my 2008 Buell Ulysess in 2022 with 15,000 miles in it. It needed new tires and spark plugs. After I put a new rear tire on it I noticed that it had a dry wheel bearing. I was going to order new wheel bearings, but had a wheel bearing failure on my first 210 mile Trip. I found on Buell blogs that Buell upgraded to a rear wheel that has 3 larger wheel bearings instead of two small wheel bearings. There is a part Number for a compete kit with wheel , bearings axle and spacers that was like $740 with shipping. My bike came with side cases and a Top case ..
Well, I'm not sure if 'd pay 26K for the Buell, but I did finally made the switch to ADV bro land and got me a Pan America. I am absolutely baffled by Harley's shortsightedness in not taking this platform way further into a mid-size ADV, a naked (the Bronx), etc. etc. etc. It's a phenomenal engine, top spec components, easy to ride and will outhandle any traditional Harley, but that's not what the traditionalists want. I think you're 100% correct that HD needs to make their own Super Cruiser. They tried and failed with the Sportster S primarily because of the design, although I do like the bike myself, but I'm too tall for it. Pan Am fits me like a glove. Awesome video as always, I wish you did make the calls at Harley 😂
Awesome, congrats. It's definitely a tall man's bike but to me ADV bikes are the best of all worlds. As comfy as baggers and quicker than all but the sportiest naked bikes. Enjoy the ride and watch you don't lose your licence with 150hp on tap.
@@DifferentSpokesTV Thanks! I'm surprised by how usable the bike is in day to day riding. And it's a lot of sun in the twisties.
The Buell creation looks more like a traditional FX Harley, whereas the SportsterS looks like a funky metric bike. Would it sell? Maybe if the price was right. 😮
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Harley drops a model to compete with the Buell Super Cruiser sometime early next year. With the hype and main complaint about Buell being dealer support, seems to be a no-brainer for Harley to take advantage of.
Everyone is an expert at what Harley Davidson should or shouldn't do. I have owned nothing but Sportsters, and current,ly a 16 Night Rod Special. I have been riding for 50 years and have had other brands too,. It was time for a new Sportster, they got 60 years out of the former design. Buell? They did that already. My next bike will be a Sportster S and I'll even go touring with it. Thank you for an informative video.
You're welcome and enjoy the Sportster S. It looks like a great bike although touring on it would be pretty brave. I don't see too many luggage options.
@@DifferentSpokesTV A universal Viking bag, a rear seat pack and a tankbag ought to hold everything. I tend to travel on the light side.
@@FredNouvertne Now days I think a lot of Harley Bikers haul their Bikes to Rallies in Toy Haulers. No Luggage options necessary. th-cam.com/video/r2ERfv15EsI/w-d-xo.html
@@DifferentSpokesTV th-cam.com/video/r2ERfv15EsI/w-d-xo.html
@ Different Spokes TV: Thank you for this video!
Here in Germany and in Europe in general the Sportster S actually did pretty decent at first saleswise.
Never saw a Nightster outside a dealership though.
Europe is naked bikes and then adventure bikes first and foremost.
Everyone wanted the Bronx, nobody understood the Nightster.
Do you think we'll actually see a Euro5+ version of the Super Cruiser for the Europesn market?
But yes, I feel the same, HD has to do something with their RevMax platform.
The PanAm is done in Europe which is a shame.
But I see the same huge opportunity for Harley Davidson as you do:
The new Lowrider S / ST as a RevMax model.
And on the cruiser platform we should see the glorious return of the legendary Sport Glide as the Lowrider S replacement.
Nobody could deny that move.
I feel done right = success guaranteed
I bought the Softail Standard (FXST) in preference to the Revolution-engined Sportster because the 1200 Evolution-engined Sportster had been discontinued. The FXST is a nice bike but I would trade it for an air cooled Sportster if and when H-D reintroduces this model. Harley has the expertise to update the engine to be emissions compliant ( 8 valve engine ) and to improve handling and braking. Wrap it in budget livery and produce it in large numbers and it will attract new to Harley buyers more than the meagre offerings of the recent past ( Street 500 et.al.)
The biggest issue isn't the styling. Though it is part of it. The Sportster S is $17k. The Nightster Special is $13.5k. The Nightster is $12k. But a Street Bob S 114 is $17k and a Softail Standard is $15k. The Softail platform is 10x more versatile as far as customization, upgrades and lifestyle. The EVO Sportsters had a huge pool of customizable options plus the nostalgia for most riders.
One of my local dealer runs the old Sportster upgrade program where you can sell back a new Sportster in your first year towards a new Softtail or Tour model for what you paid for it.
Yes, that's a smart policy.
Different Spokes TV...i agree! In fact, harley has an opportunity to do that easily. You see, for AMA harley created a bike for the super hooligan category. Its technically a pan america, BUT they stripped it down and gave it the sportster S tank. It looks like an amazing upright naked bike. If harley can get that REASONABLY PRICED, it would sell like hotcakes.
I am in the Philippines. Very few Sportster S and Pan Ams being sold. The baggers are still where the demand is. Other top seller is the BMW GS 1300. In Asia, its all about the brand appeal and heritage and less about the top ride specs.
A stripped down road king frame with king of the baggers suspension, with a 1250 rev-max in it would be an interesting bike. But the price has to be right.
I like the Sportster too 😊.
I loved the sportster s. The revmax 1250 is a great motor. One of the best bikes ive ever riden. Is it compromising yes, but man what a bike, its a ton of fun.
I actually disagree that HD should make a "super cruiser" type bike. You said it yourself at the beginning of the video, people tend to enjoy the lower powered more classically designed bikes. The people that love a performance cruiser build them out themselves anyway by upgrading their Dynas, Softails, or baggers. What HD really needs to do is get back to what biking is all about, and make some cool bikes that are affordable. Look at companies like Triumph or Royal Enfield, they're making classically designed bikes that are compliant with euro emissions standards. HD could do the same thing if they wanted to
I agree whole heartedly.... that's EXACTLY what I said to a few HD Dealers in the past few years. Take the PanAm engine and put it in a different frame, so to compete with the Indian Challenger. Now with Buell they have another reason to rebuild the Super Glide. I currently have a down payment of $1000 on a Super Cruiser. 😎 Let's see what the next year has to offer.
Yeah, I have a soft spot for the Super Glide too. Would love to see a 1250 one.
@@DifferentSpokesTV Yes, put the PanAm engine into a FXR frame and you have a REAL Super Glide. That's what Buell / Roland Sands have done.
HD could label it a Super Glide 3.
Im from Europe (Portugal), I have a sportster r 2005, and always have read and been acused of not having a real bike, not a real Harley. Now the evo is the real Harley.... Just test the bike and ride what you like. And yes something like the EVO with more power and 6 guears would be nice.
The Rev max bikes are NOT too expensive for what they are. The suspension, accessories, tech,and the engineering is truly amazing inside the Rev max engine.
I do agree they should have something under ten grand .
Yes, the Pan America is priced competitively and now the Nightster is too. The Sportster S is a bit much since it cost 15k when it came out and now costs 17k. That's a big hike.
@@DifferentSpokesTV my next bike may be a sportster s. My Nightster flies with 90 HP, I cannot imagine almost the same weight with 120 HP.
i’ve just gotten back into checking out What bikes are about? It’s been 20 years and I came to the same conclusion that you did for this video.
The real problem is Harley are pricing the "starter" bikes way out of reach of new riders -so why in H would they pay approx 24K for a "sportster level" bike when they don't buy a 19K bike now?
The Sporters S is a GUN
Awesome power & great ride way more advanced than the old 883 & 1200's
Some ppl just can't wake up to advancement
Yeah, I like it too, but it competes with faster bikes from Europe and cheaper bikes from Japan. It's dog eat dog out there.
Isn't the Indian FTR a decent option?
I love the FTR1200 but they're not selling that well either. It's really too bad.
@@DifferentSpokesTV Agree totally. Seems KTM can do it with the 1390.
I've actually seen one of the new Sportster S in the M25 West (UK) one time in the summer, so yeah... I guess there's at least one out there in the UK.
I've seen ONE in Denmark. The engine is ugly. It does not look like a Harley.
The biggest problem with the Sportster S is the price. Otherwise it's a very good bike. The old Evo can remain in mothballs in my opinion. Just keep buying and selling the tens of thousands of used Evo Sportsters in North America.
I totally think if they would make their liquid cooled engine slightly larger displacement and put it into a softail frame they would have a Goldmine
Great video! Nice bike, who knows, maybe Harley will listen. :)
Hope so!
The Sportster S isn't on my list because in the real world two inches of suspension travel just isn't enough.
They should have brought back XR1200 and sell it for 10K again. It will fly off the shelf.
I read that the Chinese Sportster makes more power than the USA version plus meets Euro 6 emissions.
My 1203 CC Air cooled 2008 Buell makes 103 HP.
I think the SWM is 5 hp down on the last 1200 Sporty but they really have to jump through some hoops to get it to pass emissions.
@@DifferentSpokesTV There are now Hundreds of bot channels spreading fake info on new bikes and new Models.
It looks like the Revised 2025 Tenere 700 may be flex fuel capable. More air directed to the radiator. Looks like a few upgrades.
Where I live in Europe the majority of Harleys are Road Kings, followed by Fat Boys and Softail Heritage.
The Sportster S is a good bike but it ain't a real Harley IMO.
There's plenty of Sportsters for sale, so I'd get one without question.
Right now I have a Springer Classic.
I love those bikes. Too bad they don't do the springer front end anymore.
The reason those bikes don't sell well is there expensive and not air cooled. But they should give duel disk breaks and a smaller width front tire.
well pleased with my scout 101
I agree wholeheartedly agree with Harley building this bike. I'm guessing that Harley is afraid of cannibalizing the profitable big twin market and offending the traditionalists. They may also be holding off on building the Super American while they prove and improve the powertrain. Finally there is also the matter of the modular frame the Sportster/PanAm which is just weird to old guys like me. The market is ripe for an FXR style aftermarket frame and swing arm kit for the revmax engines.
Yeah, they might have to build a tubular steel frame like the one Roland Sands built for Buell. That's the only way to get the FXR look.
The new Sportster line up has three problems in my book:
1) They look bad at least if you are looking from one side
2) Too expensive for what you get.
3) The seating postion isn`t cruiser like, nor is it a naked bike.
Every Triumph in the classic series looks better and you will find a model where you can sit on and feel comfortable. And they are cheaper. So why buying these strange Harleys?
Indian has revised its Scout line up, and at least they are looking much more pleasing to the eye as these two Sportster modells. And the riding experience isn`t too bad according to the internet.
So no, Harley has to think about where they wana go with their entry line up. At the moment and also in the past (Street series) they don`t fit into the european or american market.
The Buell is too expensive. The Nightster looks good minus the exhaust, change that and put the more powerful S motor in it and it’s a budget Buell.
I ride a evo Sportster which I'll never sell. But any future bikes i purchase will be of the naked Japanese variety to be sure
The new Honda Hornet looks pretty cool.
You think Harley is looking to undercut anyone on price? LOL their motto is to give you less while charging you more
I'm afraid you may be right on that one.
The problem with the "young rider" is that most of them feel no special need to get a Harley. They might like HD's but they are perfectly willing to consider other brands and types of bikes. And once they start looking at other brands the fact of HD's horrible value becomes hard to ignore. The Super Cruiser might be nice as far as spec but it is also a poor value. How many "young riders" can afford a $29,000 (after taxes and fees) for a bike that's a 2 hour bike? At that price level you can essentially buy any bike you want, and people at that point are looking at the big bore euro ADV bikes. Or, a Harley Touring bike. Triumph and Royal Enfield have done a very good job capturing the young rider market. They show us you don't need some 175hp monster to get the "young rider." I have a low rider s, I love the bike it is easily powerful enough even in stock form. But everytime I make my monthly payment I groan at what a poor value it was compared to a R1250GS (what I was also looking at buying, honestly what made the decision is all my friends ride harleys 😑)
The LRS is a nice bike and will hold it's value well if you ever decide to sell and buy the R1300GS.
I cannot see the universe that this bike will replace a Sportster line up. If Harley made one. It will cost more than a Road Glide.
I'm afraid that that may be all too true.
It’s a bit misleading calling the Chinese bikes “clones” they are legally made under licence.
The biggest problem Harley have is their customers!
Yeah, what ever happened to the Bronx and 975 ADV bikes? HD sales keep dropping like a rock and only their financing and t-shirt divisions are making money. Added to HD's costs cutting, R&D forget that, engineering no way, just keep making the same old stuff with new paint and up the MSRP. Better to look to Indian for a super cruiser.
I thonk that if they go for a middleweight ADV it will have to be a ground up new design, not just the current Pan America with a different head and less hp. That's why they pulled it. No one wants a 90hp 530lb adv bike.
HD needs to make a plethora of changes but adding the equivalent of the Buell Super Cruiser is definitely not one of them. As it pertains to the Sportster line up now, HD completely turned its back on a model that had what appeared to be a proven formula for success in that the 883 and 1200 variants allowed for entry into the American V Twin world at a price point that allowed access to a number of different people which, importantly, in my opinion had both the traditional "potato potato" thump that v-twin enthusiasts enjoyed along with a number of options from both HD and outside purveyors to customize to the hilt. The current 975 Nightster and Sportster 1200S are crap. They sound awful, they are awkwardly uncomfortable (especially the 1200S with it's ridiculous stretched out forward pegs coupled to an uncomfortable rider's triangle) and there is no "real" passenger accommodation for the 1200S. Additionally, HD added features to it (riding modes, etc...) that traditional newbie (or at least new to HD) riders shouldn't want and definitely do not need. The Nightster and Sportster 1200S, in my opinion, will go by the wayside like the VRod with HD providing no support for these models in the next few years.
The Buell Super Cruiser appears ridiculously impressive on paper. I haven't ridden it but I have personally ridden virtually every HD model offered over the past 20 years. HD already has the equivalent of the Buell Super Cruiser in two guises - - the Lowrider S and Lowrider ST versions. While not sporting anywhere near the claimed 175 horsepower of the Super Cruiser, each comes stock with the 117. Anyone with deep pockets could arguably could arguably go up to Stage 4 on either the Lowrider S or Lowrider ST and get what may be a similar riding experience of the Super Cruiser...
HD needs to get people back into the motorcycle riding fold. I argue that what keeps other motorcycle companies relevant is their collective ability to offer a variety of models to a number of different people. By way of example, I am really impressed with Triumph and their 400 offerings at a fantastic pricepoint; also impressed with Honda and their 125cc retro offerings and Royal Enfield and what they have done with their 650cc parallel twin powerplant models.
Now I realize that HD is not Triumph, Honda, nor Royal Enfield. And that is the conundrum.
HD 's sole identity is the v-twin (even though throughout its history it did offer a few different engine configurations including single cylinders!). And the fact that the v-twin is their sole identity provides a conundrum - - how to bring new riders (and riders enjoying other brands) into the fold while sticking to its essence. To me, the solution needs to be an approachable, smaller v-twin done in a few different guises. Why not a smaller v-twin with anything approaching 50hp, offered in cruiser, standard, and maybe enduro/dual sport guise with a few wonderful options to hop up?
I normally only have two cups of coffee in the AM; this 3rd cup got me typing...
Thanks for the video. I did enjoy it. Ryan
I think harley will beat buell to the punch. They could slap something together that would compete nicely with that super cruiser, with parts they already have available. 150hp 1250, pan am front end, nightster dual shock rear. Easy.
The Buell bike in the video looks miles better than the current Harley Sportster iterations. But, I can't help but ask, if the Chinese can build an air cooled sportster, why can't Harley??
Amen, I wonder if they figured out the technology to have a 6th gear in the transmission as well.
I think they could but the bike would be loosing power every time more stringent emission standards came out.
Dyna Bros.🤣
They’ve been talking about this Buell for the last year, Harley would sell a lot of these (if they made them).
Just make the 1200 sportster custom. You’ll sell the shit out of them in North America.
Yes, I agree with this idea (sorry Buell). But HD Corp doesn't seem interested in doing anything else but pushing large expensive baggers on retirees who can afford their outrageous price tags. It's like HD gave up on attracting younger customers that may not even exist anymore for them. Otherwise they would have made sexy, affordable scramblers out of the Street platform, instead of these lackluster, styleless, afterthought motorcycles nobody wants. Yes pulling the EVO Sportster was a bad idea and replacing it with these hideous Batmanesque.... things was the capper. But again HD isn't interested in pursuing affordability. Maybe they just gave up on their future.
As to me, I now ride a heavily customized (scrambling roadster) Sportster 883C which is my favorite bike ever. HD has just been cruising further and further away from what I love about traditional Harleys. Pity. But I don't like the company, only their older, more romantic models, the (nice) people who ride them and the independent mechanics who work on them.
HURRAY FOR BUELL that I can't afford hahaha😅
I would be riding a nightster right now if they had a 1250 version. Instead, I have a Low Rider S. The Sportster S just isn't for me, and apparently, a lot of other people too. It won't be around much longer either. So, would i buy a Harley super cruiser if they made it and actually got the styling right? I would buy it tomorrow!! I would trade in my LRS that I've done so much work to in a heartbeat if they built something like that super cruiser bike! I would even trade for the Bronx if they put that 1250 in it. Yes! Yes, i want a 1250, rev max, super cruiser or street fighter, or something that doesn't look like the Sportster S! Please!
Yes, the Bronx should have had the 1250 in the first place. Why even have a 975?
I hear that Erik Buell is looking for work right now....
If your point is that HD should build a super-cruiser with matching super-performance, you are right. But they need to make it look a LOT more handsome than that Buell monstrosity. Why it has 2 different wheel designs (F & R), I have no clue. And that radiator is just way too in-your-face., etc etc.
Another problem is that Harley will NEVER make a cheap(er) super-bike. They had a wonderful opportunity with their Pan America. It is a good bike. Could have been a really very serious competitor against the 1250GS and the Multistrada if only they could have priced it better (and marketed it a bit more aggressively). But no, it seems that Harley is not too interested in selling a lot of motorcycles...
I imagine that a Harley version could be sold for 17k but would be sold for 24k.
Harley needs to abandon the budget line entirely. They absolutely can't compete and never have. The budget Harley is the used Harley. Harley needs to build premium motorcycles and trikes for riders over 50 and that's it.
Oh NO, not the BOOMER GLIDE. ASTRO GLYDE FOR OLD GEEZERS. F**K OUTTA 'ERE.
ALL Harleys look the same to me. Whenever I hear someone droning on and on (not you,Mr Spokes!) about all the different models and mods and whatnot, I long for sweet death. And I definitely don’t understand the Eric Buell worship. It’s way past time to let that man rest in peace. The fact that anyone still mentions his name is a sign of how deeply mired in the past the world of Harley is. (Not to discredit his work) And people act like this new Buell is really something special. THIS is the bike we’ve been waiting for all this time! THIS is the motorcycle Harley should have made! THIS is what we want! THIS is what we’ve been talking about this whole time!
And I’m like,really? Why?! You mean to say that if Harley would make this bike everyone would buy one?! I don’t see it. It’s very plain,bordering on homely,with no real standout features that I can see. In fact,it looks exactly like a Harley! But if this plain,black,Amish looking motorcycle is what you Harley guys want,then God bless you. I hope that SOMETIME in my lifetime,Harley makes the bike that makes you all happy. 😊🎉
The concept bike looks good to me although the production model will have a way uglier exhaust which everyone will replace anyways. I think the standout feature of the Buell is 175hp which is a pretty good feature for a 450lb bike.
@@verlinswarey507 you have a point, I've owned a couple of Harley's and with that being said I always wish for something a little more or different with any model I look at.
"I long for sweet death." LMAO. Nailed it right there. Harley's and Harley people are boring as duck. I always watch to see what Harley is doing, and where they're going. But it's an expensive cult I've never desired to be a part of.
Of the 15 Motorcycles I have owned, 0 have been Harley Davidson and 1 is a 2008 Buell Ulysess that puts all HD's except the Pan American to shame.
Not every one wants to ride a "Road Coach" but that's all HD makes beside the Pan American .. The Sportster S may have a modern liquid cooled engine but it's handling really sucks. I did almost buy and Indian FTR-1200. I just didn't feel like fabricating all the brackets to add luggage.
I'm on my 3rd Evo Sporty. The curent one I bought used. I put 6,000 miles on it this year. It handles better than my 03 Road King and can out run it. I have yet to use all of the power available, so where do you come off saying they are bad handling and slow? i lnow I lnow "compared to...Kawazippos bla bla bla"I don't ride on a dragstrip and the road is not a race track.
Well, you can make them as fast as you want in a straight line if you put enough parts on them. But they are heavy and most 650cc bikes will outrun them in the twisties.
The FXLRS is the super cruiser.
Yes, but it weighs 200lbs more and has 2/3 the power.
I like the new sportsters
Oh hell no. My eyes are already aching. I will take a Chinese 1200 in blue. Better looking than any of them HD ever built.
and you will have to go to BangCock to have it serviced
Who needs a Harley when you can just purchase a Buell?
We don't know what Sportsters price will be IF Trump puts in the tariffs.
The Revmax sporty could be more pricey than a Street Bob....just saying
💯!!! Agree
Harley should make their version of the Super Cruiser using tech and the Revmax engine. With just a SE Air breather, Fuel Moto’s pipe, and a tune. FM made 147whp with a Pan American. That’s a little over 160 crank HP. Make it light and handle. It wouldn’t have to as good or powerful as the Super Cruiser to be a big hit and sell extremely well AND over come the it has to be a 45 degree air cooled thing. Not to replace anything they are doing now only to add to what they now offer and make it a profitable success.
MoCo’s biggest problem their communism agenda supporting woke ceo & board. They don’t care what the market or shareholders want. Only supporting the globalist agenda including pushing battery bikes nobody associated with freedom & riding Harley Davidsons want.
Harley's problem isn't so much they don't know how to make motorcycles, Harley's problem is THEIR STUPID CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER and BOARD.
2008-2012 Harley Davidson XR1200. Unsold and discontinued.
Yes, the XR1200 was a pretty nice bike. Unfortunately it didn't sell well in North America.
Pretty much was the Buell super cruiser before there was a Buell (Rotax) engine. Probably the response from the younger generation today about such things would be, "ok boomer."
Does this guy know the Buell supercruiser are going to cost $30000?
They should have named that bike a V-Sport and not Sportster
That buell got hit with the ugly stick from front to back.
Or go and buy the new Indian Scout 101, a much better bike!
Both the Buell and the Harley are pretty ugly in my opinion. But really Harley sold their soul to their customer base decades ago. Watching them struggle to escape it with minimal commitment while searching for a silver bullet to solve it all, is entertaining. Harley is going to have to produce a couple of 'non traditional' bikes, and run them at a loss for a while to get out of this. Building a decent enough bike, then ditching it after 2 years doesn't appear to be working. But hey, let's try that again. Fifth / sixth / seventh times the charm!
Sorry but your video is calling out the Sporster S and you give us a $24K comparison? Unfair in my view. The Sporter S,Nighster and Pan America are exactly what HD needs, evolutionary and performance driven machines. No more the old potato potato crap that HD has been overpricing for the past years. HD now only needs to bring these down in price by slashing costs or getting rid of some big CEOs and admins.
Bring back the Evo sportster,!!¡!!!!!!
I own a sporsters and a sporster 1200 I would rather ride the sporster s
The new sportster is really not pretty in person. Not sure if you can put enough lipstick on that pig to make her pretty. Old sporty for 3-5k would be my pick.
I live in Norway that has a large for europe Harley community and i have never seen a Sportster S on the roads here. Its simply too ugly, too expensive and too ugly:p
I dont like the Buell either and would get a old school sportster any day. Lets face it if you want performance you get European or Japanese bike.
Cant see that Buell ever competeing against a Yamaha MT09, Ducati Streetfighter, BMW S1000 or the like.
If you want a supercruiser the Rocket 3 or Ducati Diavel seem just so much better thought out bikes than the Buell.
Its been a long time since Harley came out with anything i would consider buying, not that they dont have nice bikes but over here they are just way way too expensive. A Softail Standard STARTS at 30 thousand USD here....
That's insane. You really have to want a Harley to pay that for a Softail Standard. I guess the Sportster S will have a tough time selling for those prices too.
Get a XR1200.
Sure they should, but HD will not build such a bike. Bored room politics & all that crap & they won't be able to charge enough for it. They should, but they won't....
Cough cough...and the road king standard .
harley do not know what they are doing as a company. look at their company figures
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I hope Harley is watching your u-tube channel. Fire the WOKE CEO and start making bikes people want and can afford.
Harley-Davidson does make an affordable bike in Japan .... Have you seen the XR350 Harley-Davidson that is a Street Tracker style ? It is a remnant of the old XR1200..I disagree with the announcer when he said the sportsters didn't handle well. .. is that why for 50 years they won the mile dirt track against every Major brands made and still today ? Not to mention the VR1000 sport bike ? Announcers today like to blame Harley for everything but without much knowledge of the product. . Canadians being the worst informed and living closer to Milwaukee then I do here in the United States .. best Canadian based announcer is just another Harley heater bringing us another Harley hating story... As he told you why all Canadians hate Harleys .. the Canadians have to pay $3,000 more for a brand new sporty "$" ... Here's what I got to say to that ..fu
For thst price range , I would absolutely get a high end European bike, Ducati, BMW or Triumph and especially a KTM !!!
The new shorter is the ugliest bike on the road
Hmmm ... too ugly and too expensive. $14K would be a fair entry price for a HD sportster.
Which one?
14 k, you bumped your head. They should make an entry level sporty for around 8k. Just lower the price to 8 k on the new nightster and theyd sell out of them. But money grubbin bastards gonna be money grubbin bastards. Let em fold. Theyre garbage over priced and a joke in the motorcycle community
The FXR was the ugliest Harley ever.
FXR-EVO-CVO……1999 FXR 2, The first CVO. One of the best bikes built by Harley and hard to find.
Yes it was butt ugly. I was on a pan than and wouldnt have a evo fxr for free. But turns out it was better then any other garbage they put out. Except my pan
@@domicam100 agree. There’s just something that looks wrong about the big twin motor with the short primary (where the gearbox is close to the engine). I’ve been in the position where I could buy a mint Shovelhead fxr, but I passed. Butt-ugly.
Sportster S migt be god, but the engine is so damn ugly. Looks like plastic and the colors are yuck.
Oh and look wise.. I prefer the 883 or 48.
I am en Eu, Denmark
Wow one minute in and already disagree with this guy which I’ve never have. Harley doesn’t need another model or a “Cooler” model they need cheaper models. That’s why people liked the sporsters
Agreed...
I'm sure they could have kept them and even improved them and passed emissions. If they really wanted liquid cooling. They could have kept the sportster lineup with a liquid cooled 45 degree v twin or even a twin cooled like the milwaukee 8. Anything but drop it would have been a better choice. If they're going to add new models, do it with other types of motorcycles. Hell, they could have liquid cooled it and made it look air cooled as well like triumph does with their modern classics. They could do all of that and kept the character of the old Sporty.
A nightster shouldn't cost more than $7500 new, but over $10k is just insane.
@radricster and a sportster s should be around 10 or 12k max as well and even that is a bit high lol
You nailed it. HD needs affordable rides not overpriced machines. All models prior to the 2022 models were just overpriced pieces of junk, now they are just overpriced amazing machines. HD needs to cut costs down. I am actually shopping for a new Sporter S next year but cannot justify the msrp