Long Langstroth Horizontal Bee Hive, Dead Out, Evaluation of Missing Queen and varroa load.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- This Horizontal Hive was stocked with Saskatraz honey bees in the spring of 2020.
They built up fast and took in plenty of honey to get themselves through winter. The varroa destructor mites had other plans, and though we did treat for mites during the year, the varroa destructor mite levels always returned. The population of the hive continued to decline right into January of 2021 when they were observed making cleansing flights.
The Queen may have departed with a late-season swarm, or died and was discarded.
There is evidence of laying workers and only drones were in the brood area, with some remaining unhatched. Without a laying queen, their numbers simply dwindled until they could no longer maintain brood (drone rearing).
The interior of the hive was free of moisture issues, and they had more than enough honey to get them through winter if they had a laying queen.
Final result is that I'll re-stock this hive and continue evaluating the horizontal hive format.
The frames were alternating foundationless and Better-Comb, All comb with brood evidence was removed and discarded. Will start with all new frames and comb to make sure pathogens vectored by varroa destructor mites won't impact the swarm that will be installed this spring.
Thank you for watching, and I hope you found this evaluation helpful.
Some viewers have been asking about the Hive Butler Totes: hivebutler.com/
If you go shopping, please tell them that Frederick Dunn sent you! :)
360 Lbs, 4001 Style Toggle Latch Clamps I use: amzn.to/3rCQ2W7
24 gauge copper flashing I used on the ends and over the entrance: amzn.to/31zaV9Y
Aluminum flashing that runs down the center of the cover (terrible job, I know) : amzn.to/3rFb1Yu
2" thick rigid insulation board was purchased through Home Depot.
What is "BetterComb"? Here is a link for you to learn more: www.betterbee....
This hive stand is composed of 2x12 stock thwarts, and 2x4 struts, they are supported on four angle iron segments that were driven approximately 3 feet into the ground: I bought the angle iron from Home Depot: www.homedepot....
If you don't like Amazon, you can also get the latches through Home Depot:
www.homedepot....
Because the Hive Cover is VERY heavy, I used OVERSIZED hinges: www.homedepot....
Entire hive is screwed with stainless self tapping screws AND Titebond Wood Glue: amzn.to/3dCL8Uj
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Links to other sites like BetterBee, or Home Depot are not affiliate links.
Great informative video.
I lost my first hive winter 2019-2020 to varroa and relentless attacks by yellow jackets. Same thing though, tons of honey, no bees, and dead varroa. This year the new colony was amazingly robust going into winter and bees are flying everywhere on warmer days.
Looking forward to your next video.
At least we can focus on the survivors :)
I'm a one-hive, first-spring beekeeper, so seeing a dead hive is heartbreaking to me. Thankfully, my hive made it through winter hale and healthy.
It's a time to focus on learning why they didn't make it, and of course work with the survivor stock that did :)
I lost 2 of 3 hives my first winter it was very very painful experience but I have one left to focus on. You should start with 2 hives ur first year.
Here in Sweden winter isn't over. I'll wait before shouting hurray
Huh. Glad i went with ankle biters for my first hive. Excellent autopsy. Things going right is of course the goal, but sometimes we learn a lot more when things go wrong!
Thanks!
I used my horizontal hive to house two colonies for the winter. The stronger one died, weaker made it. My wintering change next year, add an area similar to an inner cover on a standard hive to not only allow me to feed them, but also to top vent humidity. Feel one disadvantage to this hive is feeding. I did make sugar candy boards into frames but the cluster backtracked right before the vortex and started with food a few frames away. Top feeding sugar would have helped.
I hope that works out for you! :)
That is a bummer. I think you will do better this year
I agree. Thanks :)
Sorry about your bees Fred. Although I haven't experimented with them myself; form what I understand, the QMF strips can be used to requeen a laying worker hive. They can also be used to introduce a queen to a hive that is hard to requeen.
No problems Dan :) and yes, I'm looking forward to playing with those pheromones this year. Lot of plans, we'll see how it goes! But we can get on top of laying workers if we can determine queenlessness in time. Landing board observations are valuable there. This one snuck under the wire on me :)
why would you just burn everything, the frames can't you cut out comb scorch the frame rewire it and use it again? take and use the wax?
I'm only burning the brood frames, the honey frames I'm keeping.
How about freezing 🥶 the frames?
@@MichaelMelcher The frames were frozen in the hive simply due to our weather, so no need to put them in the freezer.
Interesting so you see lots of varroa but no deformed wings. Sorry that the bees didn't make it. Are you planning on getting the new updated flow hive?
I was very happy to see the absence of deformed winged virus! Yes, I have the New Flow-Hive 2 + unit and just haven't put it together yet. I may make a video about that also. I'm making another bee yard and rotating gear OUT. So it's time for the new stuff here in my "varroa controlled" apiary.
Thanks Fred, for giving us new insights amidst your loss of the colony...all the best to the new swarm and to you for a great and successful bee season!
Thank you Niki! :)
While I'm of course sad to see that your bees died, I'm also really glad to see that the hive construction worked well! 😊👍 I really believe in long hives, and I think it's an awesome design for people who want to build their own hives and have a more "relaxed" relationship with the bees. 😊 And it's also very gentle to the beekeeper's back! 😀
Sorry about your long Lang, and thanks for the insight. Mine went queenless after September, but made it through the winter. I requeened with a super productive queen 2 weeks ago and she laid eggs, but no larvae were cared for, and none developed. You touched on the reason.. NO NURSE BEES! The workers in the colony are all leftovers from September! Tomorrow I’m gonna add a frame with nurse bees and brood and see if that kickstarts things.. thanks for the idea..
Awesome!
Hi Fred, really informative video, thanks 👍.
I have a home made horizontal hive too, I'm in Birmingham UK .
And had a similar dead out this year. As a newbie it's a heartbreak but I'm determined to try again.
I wasn't sure I can extract the honey, so I'm glad I see you are. Do you remove the wax from these frames too?
And, I will also destroy the frames with the dead bees on.
I will try a 3 split brood frame this year to see if I can control the varroa numbers. What do you think of this technique?
Looks like if you follow your plan and repopulate the hive with one of your own B Weaver hygienic swarms, you’ll have better luck since mites were a big part of this death. I tend to think your queen flew the coop in a late season swarm by the apparent lack of huge numbers of corpses in addition to her being absent.
That is a super good call with regards to the hive tools and biosecurity. Such a bummer this colony failed, but that mite count was nuts. Thank you for taking the time to go through and talk about everything. Hoping for bigger and better things for this hive in the future.
Greetings Mr. Dunn! I was hoping that spring would bring us all very good news about your Long Langstroth test. You have the best of attitudes and I found your postmortem assessment to be very interesting and enlightening. I look forward to your continued work with horizontal hives. I often send beekeepers to your channel as your first-rate explanations are a gold mine. Thank you and sorry for your loss.
Thank you so much, as always!
I bought a Saskatraz queen last year when I found I had no queen and laying workers in May. I heard the buzz about them no pun intended. I think they were down to maybe two frames of bees so I did not do a mite wash. I built a Layens hive and transferred them from a nuc into the Layens in June. They made it thru the winter but I have not done an inspection yet. I'm afraid of chilling any brood they might have. I'm starting to think that characterizing bees to have certain traits is BS. Maybe the hygenic trait I believe since I've seen examples of that. I thought the Saskatraz was suppose to be more resilient against mites. It seems that if you just keep the mite count down and have good nutrition and have a good insulated hive that is the best chance for survival. I'm going to try to make my own queen this year if I have enough bees since I only have one hive. Was that the only colony you lost this winter? How would you rate your winter? Although MA had some pretty cold days and some snow storms I would say it was a pretty average winter although it seems we have more wind storms combined with cold lately.
So far, I've lost four of fifteen colonies, we're not out of the woods yet. I'm glad your bees are doing well and thanks for sharing!
Fred, Thank you for this video. I am first year bee keeper with Langstroth 2 deep box set up, up in Portsmouth NH.. This is exactly what happened to my hive, but I still have 2 or 3 frames of workers. Queen is gone and one of the workers is laying now. My hive had a section of Mold in the bottom deep, top box was still looking good with the remaining workers. I have been so stressed about it until I saw your video..you have given me confidence to carry on.. I put up few swarm traps.. My goal to keep on top of varroa better this year.
I will clean up, keep my chin up, and carry on with new hive this year!! - Best, Shirley
We need to make some better ventilations this year. That mold came from condensations mostly. I lost one of my best hives that way. Never give up. Go ahead.
@@namentatic4978was it mold forming in summer or winter? How avoid it?
Was all that webby stuff on the clustered bees fungus or mold? Is that what happens after they have died? So sorry for the hive crash. 🐝😢
Hi Nancy, it's just hairy mold that forms on dead animals (or any other organic material) as nature reclaims those resources. The dead bees have moisture in their bodies and resources that molds thrive on. Part of normal decay and molds help recycle organic materials that are no longer living... cool eh? :) genetically similar yeasts attach themselves and start munching, well, the way that enzymes do. They, yeasts, are just floating around looking for something to attach themselves to and feed upon.
@@FrederickDunn thank you for the explanation. I enjoy your channel and have considered bee keeping having read up on the practice. I am interested in the long horizontal setup. I hope you have a better result with yours in the future.
Invaluable education to a neophyte like myself, hope I never have to autopsy a crashed hive, but knowing what to look at and understanding what I am seeing will help if the day comes. Thanks for your efforts 🙂👍
Thank you, James, yes even dead-outs can serve an educational purpose so it's not a total loss :)
Both my hives died last winter (in my horizontal hives). I did not get to do an inspection. I am very thankful that I got to see and learn from this video.
Question: At ~6:50, you talk about 'mite feces?'. Do we only see this in extreme cases of infestation?
Not necessarily just "extreme" cases, but just evident that the varroa mites are reproducing in the capped pupae cells. Just evidence of presence, not necessarily in overwhelming numbers.
🛫📖🛬
Mr. Dunn,
The ending of your video accompanied by the cold wind blowing around the hive leaves me somewhat melancholy.
When I see how hard these precious creatures work so tirelessly for the common good of their community I can't help but think there's got to be an answer to the mite problem
Perhaps that study that's being done in British Columbia on the treatment called 3c36 could be the answer but yet several years away.❓
Glad to hear you're not giving up pressing forward, onward and upward.
BTW:
I received my baptism today by doing a hive inspection without proper protective gear;
And the grand total is=
27 STINGS.
They found the way into everything I was wearing.
Oh, and you're so right,
Anthropomorphism does not influence the girls love for The beekeeper at all. Lol
📖🛐🐆🐝
My insolated horizontal i tested here in upper mid west did great. Came out with 8 frames of BEEs from winter. I think was great anyway for the brutal cold and all the snow we had here. All the rest of my hives where wintered in single deeps in a shed. I dont know why people buy BEES? All i have from day 1 are from swarm traps i set out away from any towns and all have did great for years. From what i have been told they look like a carnie cauc mix. The Queens are all Black like a tire. Best of luck this year FRED
Wow, you really have some great stock there Matthew! I agree, get those local bees!
Can you preserve the wax from the “bad” frames?
I could, but I just don't need amy more bees wax, all of my bins are full. Just the brood frames are being removed, keeping the honey frames for sure.
When you say you are going to destroy the frames… Do you mean the whole frame or are you just going to gut the insides out? And with the bees not clean up any of the frames with the dead bees in it. The reason I ask is because my hive survived the winter… But there was a lot of dead bees some of them were stuck in frames and I was just going to let the remaining bees clean everything up.
@@cliffordallan1393 You can definitely keep the frames! :)
It looks like an apocalypse man. I don't think they died out of old age as you have younger bees died as well. Maybe mold or some other poisonous food. I would give a frame for testing. Did you find out what happened? Thanks for sharing 👍
sorry... My comment, was uncalled for. 37 years ago, I had bees (well, my family, did). It seems like a good hobby for retirement. Long hives seem like a good idea.
Hi, Fred .... have you thought about that the queen run out of fertilized eggs in the autumn ... cluster looks normal but weak and without enough vital winter bees ... queenless cluster is usually spread in the hive and also often is victim of robery .... i believe that the queen could be among dead bees ... this is one more posibile scenario what have happened in this hive .... another one is that the new queen did not mate on time. ... drones are wellcome in this case .... anyway, nice video and explanation..greetings from Croatia
So sad. That is a lot of honey. I just came here from the setup video and was thinking a split top would make it more accessible if you haven’t figured out an escape path for that lid. More complicated to seal too. I like the insulation you added. I was assuming the veroa climbed up from the ground, but hitching a ride on drones makes them very difficult to exclude.
Folks told me horizontal hives would be good for reproduction but not for honey production. Like yours in the video, I have found that my horizontal hives are doing great with honey production and reproduction. Enough so that I’ve built 3 more to add to the apiary this year. My survival rate in the horizontal hives was 100% this year. I credit much of that to the thickness of the 2x12 construction as we have long bitterly cold winters here. Good luck with the hive this coming season.
Your long hive is one of the best constructed long hives on TH-cam in my opinion. A true 1 1/2" thick wood design on all sides. Good job ! I love it !
I guess your coffin jesters think there proven right.
I am determined to make this work, I think it's a decent design and have learned a few things this past year. Let's see how it goes with this year's colony.
Hi Fred, Sorry your Bees didn't make it in your Horizontal Hive.
I noticed you don't have a Screened Bottom area in your Hive Floor. Is that because PA gets to cold for the bees to survive those super lows you get ?
Here in Scotland I have a Screened Bottom to my Horizontal Hive. It does get cold here, and snow, but never super sub zero...
But by being ventilated, and having tons of Sheep's Wool (Fleece) in the Hive Walls and Roof Space keeps them cosy.
Yes their were quite a few dead bees at the bottom of the hive, but I guess some just die of old age (!)
My Colony survived well, although I think I have a new Queen ! 👑 : The Autumn inspection was marked Red (2018 Queen / Clipped Wing) and this one had no Mark. However, she was so Quick to hide herself on my first Spring Inspection, I couldn't see if she was 'clipped or not'. Aka if she is new, or did the paint rub off ???
Question: if she's new, I guess I mark her as 2020 (Blue) Right??? Even though
I saw the "Red Clipped" one in late September !?! Guess Supersedure happened.
What's your thought ?
Hope new Bees do well in that Fabulous built Hive ! 👍
Happy Beekeeping 2021 🥳 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝,🐝🐝
This year, 2021, white is the queen marking color. I wish I had all of that sheep's wool, I'd make good use of it! If that's your old queen, and you want to refresh her thorax dot, then yes, last year was blue. They do clean that paint dot off as time passes, all of my spring queens have lost their paint. I don't repaint them myself, but I keep records about her appearance and take photos of my queens :) wing clipping (on one side) will be very valuable for me this year as I will be keeping with my own stock through 2021 and 2022. I have a separate yard now for wild caught swarms and others of unknown origin.
Fred, thank you for your kind Reply ! ... 👍
I have more Sheep* here than Neighbours !?!
* Sheep are not mine, alas, but their Wool is cheap £'s
to come by after shearing season in July (!)
Wool is poor quality, (off Meat Bred Sheep, as Lamb Cuts.) So 'fleece' is a really great hive insulation material.
Or try Thrift Stores with old Woolen Blankets, or Yard Sales. [Just need to fold and layer them up several times,] to get similar effect, if not in Scotland re Sheep ! 😏
Horizontal Hives are great when insulated.... 🐝🐝🐝🐝
I agree that you should try again with this hive. I think it was designed well, I think Saskatraz bees just didn’t do well last year. I haven’t heard many people who got them last spring that are still living this spring.
I think you're right and the situation will be improved with my survivior stock. We'll see how this year goes :)
I suggest moving the entrance to the end with a landing board. That way, honey will only be on the far end away from the entrance, which the cluster will move to over the winter. If honey was on both ends, they won’t be able to access the far away honey. I also used wine cork sized holes for the entrance, so I could close them up as needed. Lastly (mentioned this on an earlier video), if you try foundationless frames again, mount some cove molding under the bar (make sure the fit is tight so you don’t create a beetle hiding space in the cove).
Where can I find building plans for the long Lang you built? I would love to use these! Thank you in advance!
1. With Mite Bombs-can you give those honey combs to another hive? 2. Will those Mite Bomb honey Combs have Mites in them?
I don't like to transfer honey comb between colonies. The other colonies are all providing well for themselves, if I had to boost them, I'd do that with sugar syrup over sharing honeycomb. Plus, we can use the honey and just uncap and process it as we don't have to worry about bee pathogens. There are no mites living in the hive once the bees die, so that's not a concern, but the pathogens they vector are a concern and I'd rather not share that.
Sorry for the lost,Mr Dunn,, Jus Another Day in Nature,,the Life Cycle,,And Experience..🇱🇨👍🏿♥️♥️
This was a very good video. So it was a case of a hive not being queen right. Something like this happened to Kamon Reynolds in Dec19. But He re-queened by using one of his queens in one of his nuc boxes, I think...and I think they survived the winter...have to check this out...because I don’t remembre how Kamon noticed there was a problem to begin with in the middle of Dec.
So main causes of winter lost are 1) Varroa mites, 2) starvation 3) temp/humidity 4) queen right/not
Hope you can figure out if a late swarm did occur.
One could hear your sigh of relief that it was not due to the Horizontal hive! I am glad you will continue with it.
Kamon has a wonderful weather advantage in that he can open hives well into winter, while we have to remain buttoned up for many months. Having a nucleus colony to freshen a queenless hive would definitely be an advantage, but here I couldn't expose them to the cold or I may lose the nucleus and the queen-less colony.
@@FrederickDunn Gave you the wrong impression I think. Was in no way suggesting that you should have made a winter inspection.
But I would have a ton of questions for you. I think this would be a good case study. A lot to be learned from this. On it’s face value I don’t think it had to do with the type of bees nor the hive you had. Hope there will be a follow up to this.
Wow that's to bad Fred ,I was hoping for good results, I guess I will see how my first year in a horizontal hive works for me
Remember, I don't think it's the hive after examining the interior conditions, I think it's more the stock and queen loss.
My horizontal i tested this winter did great. Even up here in the brutal cold and all the snow it came out of winter with 8 frames of BEES. Best of luck
Great hive examination and explanation, Good information. I'm a 3rd year beekeeper in the UK with 6 hives which have all come through winter OK. Keep the video's coming. Thanks Chris.
I am so happy that your colonies made it through! Such a great feeling, warming weather and live bees to tend! I wish you all the best Chris!
Thanks. Keep the video's coming, great learning from you. Good look for the new season.
I was talking to a fellow beekeeper here in Pa. about getting a horizontal beehive and he told me that they don't work in our weather. Do you receive below-freezing weather where you are?
I think we're going to find out, yes, I live in the snowbelt and we've been snowfall record setters in the past. I actually think it's going to work with a good queen going into winter. This year will tell the tail, and I'm also using the Layens horizontal hive this year, so we'll have a nice comparison between the two. I know several keepers who have had top bar hive failures here in NWPA, but I feel they may have thrown in the towell too early. One hive, one test just isn't enough for me to make that determination.
They use them in Russia, so I suspect they would work for PA.
Late posting this. Your videos are always educational. I've read a lot of negatives about horizontal hives. I believe utilizing different hive designs allows the capability to keep bees for folks that might not be physically able any other way.
Great video.
Absolutely! Horizontal hives do provide the opportunity for those with low upper body strength to still engage in beekeeping. They are also so heavy that heavy weather doesn't move them.
Thank you Fred for sharing this. Sad, but very informative. You obtained a good deal of honey, and we all obtained invaluable information. Very glad to hear you will give it another try.
And that honey tastes great! I was happy to find it didn't crystalize :)
@@FrederickDunn Well that is a true bonus. At least you can enjoy the fruits of their labor.
Thanks for all the energy and time you put into educating your public, very interesting!
You said that you would burn and replace the affected frames. Why not put them into the freezer or something?
It seems such a waste of very nice equipment!
You "could" boil them off and salvage the frames. The freezer only stops pest eggs like SHB or Waxworms.
Sorry to those who had dead outs. That hurts.
Very informative and useful work through of a dead out. I suppose, if they swarmed quite late, that a new virgin queen would not have a chance to mate, thereby leaving the colony effectively ‘queenless’. The original queen could of course have died, as you mentioned, but the late swarming does seem a more likely explanation, as the hive was thriving when going into winter, and your queen was probably healthy and not nearing the end of her natural life. It seems to me that very late swarms are getting more common, and makes me wonder if that might be down to climate changes, human interference (i.e. excessive feeding etc.) or maybe a combination of both.
All great points!
Sorry for the late post, just discovered this video. BTW, great video and commentary. You mentioned that you will burn the frames. Can I ask why?
Thanks in advance!
Dave
Just because it's easy to just give them fresh foundation rather than take the chance that the brood disease may carry on to the next occupants. Not mandatory. The brood comb in parcitular is just a mess, the bees "could" clean them up. You could wash them out, flush the cells and put them back into service. Since I have plenty of extra frames, I just replaced them. But to be clear, it's not necessary in order to control this kind of brood disease.
i had same problem my bees all died but not from mites i had an excess of moisture and it seemd to kill them
😢 awww man, this is just so sad. I've been following long enough to really appreciate the design of your long hive. I'm in process of building one. This situation would have dropped any hive. My condolences. Keep it going. You gave them the very best environment and supplies.
Oh, don't worry at all, that's an older video, they are doing extremely well now. We use that hive as a teaching system more than any other. Thank you for being concerned, but all is well :)
That's almost is what my Saskatraz deadout looked like except there was a queen and a tiny cluster that just couldn't hold on. One Saskatraz colony did survive and I will make a split from it to see how they handle the mites with mating with the local genetics. Thanks Fred!
Oh, that's great that you have a Saskatraz survivor colony! I hope they continue to work out. So much bad news with that line, but there are definitely some that made it ok. Thanks for sharing Rodney!
@@FrederickDunn The one that didn't make it was my mite bomb colony! Maybe it was for the best. Thanks Fred!
Sorry to hear this. That is a disappointment for sure. I've been following your long lang journey and have been wondering how it did through this winter. The Saskatraz bees definitely didn't seem to handle varroa well at all and seem to be to blame here. That was a suprise to see... Especially when contrasting that finding with your state hive inspection video which couldn't find any varroa... I can't wait to see how it performs with a good swarm stock of bees. Is it safe to say you won't be utilizing Saskatraz stock in the future?
I did not have Saskatraz stock during my State Inspection... they would have shown high mite counts.
Hi, just discovering your videos.. I'm going to build a horizontal langstroth hive like yours this spring. Was wondering, do you do anything to clean out the hive after a die off like that?
I think I would run a plumber's blow torch over every surface inside before putting new bees in it, just in case.
Also, I saw another guy angled the frames in his long langstroth hive, what do you think about rotating the frames like 30 degrees? He says it helps in a snowy climate in the dead of winter.
Cheers man! keep making videos and I'll keep watching 👍
Pulling frames was enough in this case. I haven't tried changing frame orientation.
Hours after viewing your long Langstroth video. I am a first spring beek with my diy Doug fir long lang, and bee are doing great, so here are some question, and hopefully help. My hive has burr comb everywhere. Not yours? Non on box, or frames? Is there something bad about using oak, possibly VOC's. ?? Knowing your diligence, very interested in your research. The Best, H
Nothing to do with the oak, they sealed that up well with propolis. I think it was just the use of bee space. There is 3/8" between the frames and interior of cover boards, I think that did the trick. :)
Why only one entrance? As the hive progressses would it be easier for them if there was another farther down the length?
I stick with a single entrance so that there is nothing but honey at the far end as the season draws to a close. With one entrance, I don't have to use a queen excluder as they will keep the brood neared the entrance while storing honey beyond that. It imitates how they use natural cavities that are verticle or horizontal.
I'd like to know if you used Amitraz. In my colonies Amitraz does absolutely NOTHING in killing mites. I wouldn't waste my time with that product. I used it for the last time after finding my mite counts were high a week after taking out the strips. I quickly used formic acid to knock them down. It worked and the colonies exploded going into winter.
I only use OAV, or if the case is severe, Formic Pro.
Nice hive build
You need to work with local resistant stock thats sized right.
No artificial diets either, immune weakening increasing suseptability to all maladies ...
Happy beekeeping
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Very informative Fred! I'm a returning beekeeper this after after a 20 year hiatus. Lots to relearn. So sad to see a dead out but there is a lot to learn from a silent hive. My first colony went in a week ago and are strong so far. Can't wait to see the layens hive, built 3 for myself this year for swarm catches. Thanks for the great videos. I can tell you spend alot of time on them.
Thank you so much, I'm going to have fun putting a Layens hive out this year. It will be a nice conversation piece and I can share about many various hive designs and their features :) Welcome back to beekeeping! I hope your swarms measure up! :)
Sorry for your losses but really good information and analysis on what happened. Enjoy watching your video's by the way. I'm getting ready to put a Beeweaver queen in a Long Lang but was wondering if you thought having to much insulation could come back to bite me. I have 1/2" plywood sheathing sandwiching a 1" R5 foam board (so 2 " thick walls). I live in central North Carolina and was thinking the bee's may need more honey because they want go in to a true doormat state if the internal temp doesn't drop like a normal hive over winter.
I don't really think there is such a thing as too much insulation :) They will just use fewer resources as they go through winter, and may also use fewer resources in summer as they remain cooler. I think you're going to be just fine.
Hey Fred, still enjoying your video's.. By the by what is the name of the Blue entrance systems and where did you get them from....Thanks for the great video's and please keep up the good work.. Charles Rose
www.fredsfinefowl.com/hyfegatetestingprogress.html
Educational, heartbreaking, and another example of the eternal perseverance to continue experimenting. Great video!
Sir: At 17:21, what crop occupied the field behind the hive? Are you aware if crop was GMO or non-GMO? How about use of pesticides, herbicides or fungicides on the field? Always curious to know if major food source for bees was tainted with chemicals potentially detrimental to their immune system.
last year it was soybeans. I am in a low pesticide load area based on BeeScape.
Fred why burn the frames? we lost our hive over the winter (2nd winter) we put a second box on top - we are thinking it got to cold for them.
I'm burning just the brood frames, no reason to keep those, will recycle the honey frames back after extraction and clean up. I don't mind replacing the brood comb when it's from a dead-out, it's just another of protection.
So sorry to see this but I learned so much. Fred, I also lost 2 hives and have lots of deep honey frames. Did you say you could spin and extract it? I used apiguard and oa on some of my bees. Is that ok for my consumption? How long can you keep capped honey frames in garage... will be using some for resources/splits but not all. Thank you.
I am adding this to my discussion for Friday's Q&A as I think many others may have similar concerns :)
I've seen several videos in the past where the B-keeper said the horizontal never produce honey. Clearly that is not the case. Will you begin again with the sascatraz bees?
Enjoyed this very much. Thanks
I'm using my locally produced bees now, they are doing great :)
Just because they had capped honey, dont mean they didnt starve. Bees move up through the winter, not horizontally, unless it warms up. Langstroth frames are not deep enough in a horizontal for bees to survive cold winters. They need a box above them to keep moving up. If one is going horizontal, in my opinion, you need deeper frames, layens. Looks like veroa had a lot to do with you problem though. Hope you get it figured out for sure. Sad!
HI Ray, if that were true, and it is great when they can rise on the same comb, then others with the same horizontal configuration would also lose their colonies without seeing them migrate horizontally. I think if they had a larger colony that remained queen rite, then they could have moved through those frames just fine. If they can't migrate sideways with a healthy cluster, then all should perish in this configuration. There are top bar hives making it in Vermont, so this is a puzzle. Deeper frames are definitely better... but horizontal spaces are also capable of sustaining bees just based on the percentages of success by others don't you think?
I'm looking into putting together a Long Lang for myself, with extra insulation for our Canadian winters here; Just curious how you handle Oxalic Acid treatments in this configuration?
I use the provap 110 through a 1/4" diameter hole in the back wall of the hive.
Hi Fred sorry about the bee loss. However having read Keeping bees with a smile check out pages 238-239 on about the age of the queen and over wintering as moisture was not a problem. As she was a swarm queen she could have been 3yrs old? The hive was well insulated as per the book so the age of the queen definitely should be considered.. All the best Clive
She wasn't a swarm queen, she was a Saskatraz package install queen and less than a year old. I will be replacing them with a swarm, sorry if I wasn't clear about that. This video shows the install th-cam.com/video/87kUcxSjJ2k/w-d-xo.html
I beg to differ on your analysis of the crystalized honey. Sugar water doesn't crystalize but Goldenrod and aster nectar does. I think that your fall honey was the culprit on crystallization. I could be proven wrong but that's what I've learned.
I'm always happy to have people share what they have learned, I only share my personal observations and experience. The golden rod and aster honey is prone to crystalize, but they cap it nicely with bees wax. I've found that when fed 2:1 syrup, they store it up, but often fail to provide wax cappings. I have capped frames full of aster and golden rod honey from other hives, there were only two fed 2:1 syrup to boost them and they both hive this appearence.
Man I am sorry. I had this happen to me a few times and I felt like crying. Then I just went a few years not caring to raise bees anymore,but they must have evolved a bit or something.The last few years they all just hold there own.Have not treated for anything in the last 10 or 12 years.I used to order in queens every year. They seemed to be excellent queens untill the winter set in and they did not do very well.Now I stick with what ever nature provides me. It seems to me that once you start with all the treatments then you have to keep on doing it.
That hive is doing fantastic now. I've changed a few things. I'm glad you've had a good result with being treatment free, but based on reporting hive owners the treatment free group is suffering more losses than any other group of beekeepers. I was treatment free for 10 years, I averaged 40% losses annually. I hope some day we can all be treatment free with good results.
I've had the exact same thing, I only have room for two hive in my garden and both were strong going into winter, I opened them up thinking maybe they had starved even tho I checked a month before, there was at least half pound of fondant on the top and 10-12 pounds of honey stores. the 2nd hive I opened had 2 capped queen cells and no bee's.
I have no clue as to what went wrong.
And this can be a frustrating aspect to beekeeping. Sorry to say.
Too bad you relied on the bees to keep the mite count low. For all of us it was invaluable to know that the Saskatraz bees didn't get it done this year in that hive. I really wanted to see them do well.
So, did they leave the hive because of the infestation? Did they swarm too late in the season? I saw legs and heads severed. What was that from? Is the queen in the dead bodies with her head cut off? Did they just fall apart after they died? Was there a battle? Looked like some moth damage also, maybe after they died.
Looking forward to your microscope report video coupled with your new swarm or bees for the hive. If I get bees it will be a long hive only and make it work.
Zero evidence of wax moths. Bee parts on the bottom board are normal. I did not rely on the bees to keep their mites under control, I had to treat them with OAV in this colony. I suspect a late season swarm. I do not think the varroa mites, though present, were the cause of the dead-out, I put the absence of the queen at the top of the list.
So sorry. I lost both of my hives this year. Mite overload it looked like. Plus both hives up and left sometime in late October
How frustrating! I hope you continue with new bees this year.
Thanks for the video. Very informative. Can you tell me if those plastic boxes are good to keep frames with honey over the winter? Do they seal well? And where do you get them? Thanks
Yes, I use them for winter storage of honey frames and also keeps my drawn comb at the ready for hive expansion and swap outs. They are from Hive Butler - hivebutler.com/ tell them Frederick Dunn sent y ou! :)
Why are you burning the frames with the clusters? If no evidence of Am Foulbrood why not brush out the bee bodies and scrape off propolis and wax and allow new bees to clean up the frame/foundation?
There are more potential issues than AFB or EFB, I just decided to replace the frames they died on. I did keep in service, plenty of the brood frames that were near the entrance. More than enough to get another colony going.
I lost both my hives this winter from moister. There was mold covered bees . The hives had plenty of honey . Very disappointing . I followed all the rules .
That's very sad. The mold actually occurs after the bees die, not the cause. I hope you can figure out what may have been the issue.
I lost both of my hives this year as well. It's still too cold to get into them yet. So it's advisable to just destroy the brood frames in both my hives and start fresh? I'm guessing I can scrape the wax off and process that and burn the remainder of the frames? I'm also guessing there's no issue in harvesting the honey and reusing those frames?
All true, I just remove brood comb as an additional precautionary layer. Yes, no issue with harvesting the honey, or reusing the frames.
thank you for sharing this,,,, could the off gassing of your un-covered insulation in the top have caused this?? thank you for the info
Great question, and the answer is no on the insulation board causing queen loss.
I get fall swarms if I’m not careful to add more space with the tremendous goldenrod flow in my little corner of Potter County. I think you may have had open cells, but they were too far away laterally in the hive. I think in warmer weather that wouldn’t have been a problem. Bees like vertical growth in cooler conditions as it is easier for the cluster to utilize their heat.
I have three deeps of Saskatraz bees in one colony just a week ago, and another in two deeps. It’s almost as if they had no winter loss in strength. So far I have had very good luck with the Saskatraz. Each hive produced 100 pounds of honey for me last year. And they still have about a hundred pounds each left. I’ll need to get some empty comb to them soon.
That is a great Saskatraz success story! Thanks for sharing.
Not following...find heavy mite load and then saying workers just died after normal life span.
I think many may not understand this, so I'll be talking about it more today. There are mites on the bottom board, there were none on the bees bodies. This "could" indicate that the treatment at the end of November was a good one. I scraped off the dead bees from the frames and collected them, there were no mites on the bee bodies which we would expect to find if the mites were the single cause. There was evidence of a mite load based on the mite feces in the brood cells, so mites were a factor overall. Because the queen either swarmed at the end of the season, or died, the hive population just dwindled (normal life span) and died. The final cluster probably froze to death as they would not be able to keep enough warmth for survival. There was no evidence of DWV or other conspicuous diseases. This is why I think if colony remained queen-rite, then we would have had large numbers of bees inside the hive, instead of this minimal number. There was no dead queen in the hive, so I put mites and queen loss at the top of my list for the loss of this colony. That's my thinking anyway.
You did mention that you did treat this hive. With the mites on the floor of the hive far from the brood nest may indicate the mites fell from the bees during the treatment. All the dead mites may be saying the treatment did work. Any thoughts. Thanks for the tour of the hive.
That is an absolute possibility. I think the absent queen is the primary cause of their demise.
Im sorry for your loss.
The colony looks quite small and i add the posibility that the queen might have absconded with a part of the bees right before the winter.
And the new queen she left behind could have not been fertilised and she made the drones.
For such small colony,the varroa mites are too manny.
All possibilities. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for the update. If you can and have time can you show us the process of how to clean the hive and frames/equipment so that you can reuse it.
There are many videos, by many beekeepers showing how to clean up a dead out. I think I'd rather spend the time on something else since it's so well covered already. Thanks for watching and commenting :)
Could have been off gassing from the pink foam insulation, not meant to be left exposed
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that. Between the enclosure with the rigid foam board and the bees, there are cover boards with no air flow exchange between the hive space and the cover insulation. The Cover also has end vents. I'm not completely ruling out any impact, but think it's very far down the list of what may have caused this situation. But thanks for bringing that up. I think the main reason it's not rated for exposure inside a home is that it does not meet fire safety requirements and must be covered by dry wall for that important rating. If you know of some specific material safety issue, please send it my way and I am always on the learn :)
Great video!!!! About that stored sugar syrup--will the bees cap stored sugar water?
HI Brad, it goes through several bee crops before getting into the cells and dried down to the appropriate moisture levels, but yes, sugar syrup can end up being the source of capped honey in the hive. That's why we don't feed colonies that we plan to take honey from. At least not until after the last harvest of the year.
Why would you NOT use the brood frames and honey frames from this dead out for new package of bees?
I will be installing a swarm, not a package. The honey frames will be uncapped, extracted and replaced for the new occupants as they expand their space.
Looks more like they froze (the one's that are still on the frames. Did you do the insulation version or just insulated the lid?
Without sufficient bee numbers, yes, the remaining bees could not maintain that valuable heat mantle. No chance without the renewal that comes with a healthy queen no matter what the configuration is.
I am sorry if I missed it, but did you say what you do to use the hive again? Does it get a scrubbed bottom board or does vacuuming suffice?
With this particular situation, I'm just removing the brood frames and will be returning the honey comb once it's empty. I see no reason not to re-occupy this hive as I noted no other issues.
How interesting..I have a Horizontal hive divided in two and I lost both of them as well. Low population of bees in both halves too.....no queen was my assessment as well.
An unfortunate trend indeed.
My horizontal hive is my only failure time and again. Never using it, ever. Free so come and get it.
Wow, that's not good news Chris! But I'm sure someone may want it? Were you able to narrow down what the issues were? I'm seriously hoping this second go will be much better.
Oh, it’s so sad. I was looking forward to see how the bees were doing in the long hive☹️
I'll bet that this will be a better year :)
@@FrederickDunn i
Me too 👍
I lost all my hives this year. First time in 6 years. It appears to be mite load which I fought up to the end.
That is terrible news! I hope you will be able to re-group and find another mite-defensive approach this year. Maybe a different stock of bees would handle mites better?
Did you treat this hive with OA in November as you advise us to do? If so then how did the varroa mites run roughshod over this hive?
Great Question... notice the dead varroa are on the bottom, none were on the bee bodies, so the dead varroa could actually be a demonstration of an effective OAV treatment. Had the queen not disappeared, I think we'd have been in great shape going forward. None of the collected bees had mites on their bodies.
Thanks for the reply and especially the information.
You're welcome.
Fred, sorry you lost the hive. The way they expanded and as strong as they were it’s hard to believe they died out. I sorta believe you may have had a late swarm although there was a mite infestation.
Hi Don, always great to see your comments! I'm with you on that, late-season swarm that I just wasn't aware of. Too late to re-queen no matter the reason she departed. Frustrating, but an opportunity to educate others :) have a great weekend!
Hi Fred, why don't you just take a frame of brood and some workers and put them in that hive? They will make a queen if the eggs are under 3 days. This is a great video.
That would work, but I have other plans for my colonies, and they very predictably swarm and land on one of three trees. I'd like to see them build from scratch than using a split. But what you're suggesting would be a fast buildup. A swarm has a laying queen in it this time of year, so they would hit the ground running/laying, and would advance pretty good unless some odd weather event slowed them down.
@@FrederickDunn Dr Leo is a big proponent of wild bees. I am looking forward to seeing how your experiment turns out.
Great analysis, I was wondering what bee species or type is most tolerant in your apiary?
BeeWeaver bees have proven to be the most disease and mite resistant stock for me here.
Excellent commentary! 8:40 did your other bees swarm to this/or your other empty hives? (I'm thinking i should get an empty hive so any swarming can find it.)
Often bees to swarm and install themselves into my unoccupied hives. Fairly common.
@@FrederickDunn how many hives do you have? Are other forest areas near? (Trying to figure out the supply/demand of potential bee housing in your area as compared to mine.)
Great info as always, thanks Fred! If the cause is an absent Queen and high verroa, why burn the frames? Can they not be reused?
Only the brood-rearing frames were burned. I just like to start clean, so the honey frames will be re-used, it's just a case of being overly cautious and I don't mind the cost.
You mentioned that you fed sugar 2:1, so I wouldn't sell that honey.
I never mentioned selling the honey. Thanks. This hive was an experiment. It was also very clear on the honey frames, which was from the 2:1 and which was nectar based. But you're right, no one should be "selling" honey that is derived from sugar syrup fed colonies.
Details please on harvesting BetterComb. Thank you.
No different from the other standard wax comb. Uncap and spin in baskets, not a radial extractor, the toothpick comb wouldn't hold up to radial extraction, so they are going in the hand crank two basket system :)
Would it be necessary to use a dissenfrectant to clease that hive, or mabe just a good sun bath to reduce the chance of disease carrying over to the future inhabitants?
In this case, pulling the brood frames was enough, it's doing extremely well now.
Any chance you have drawings of this hive? My wife and i would like to start beekeeping. I want to build a hive like this so I don't have to lift boxes to check on them (bad back...). Definitely enjoy your videos. Very educational.
I will make those available on my website soon. www.TheWayToBee.org