The Crowdfunding $$$ Marketing Problem...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- #LiegeOfGames #boardgames
Crowdfunding has some problems. A lot of them deal with money in some way, shape or form. Or the perception related to it. Let's talk.
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Time Stamp:
00:00 - Smoke & Mirrors
- More $$ = Better Game Fallacy
03:58 - More Media But Less Focus On Consumer
- Less Opinions is a win-win
07:02 - Funding is Fake
- Fake backers?
- Stretch goal illusions
09:36 - The Illusion of Choice
11:09 - Is There A Solution? - เกม
A lot of the stretch goals end up being fluff that either never gets played or wasn’t play tested as much.
its easier to make a 50cent plastic mini than to invest the time to effectively incorporate that product into the game play in any meaningful way.
Too many expansions on games that are just coming out. We don’t even know if it’s good and they have 3 expansions.. it’s just fomo. I wish they would just put out the core game and then after it’s been delivered for 6 months then put out an expansion.
Yah, crowdfunding multiple expansions then when the game starts delivering they announce the next expansion that concludes the narrative. oh and a reprint with all the errata fixed. Thereby devaluing your purchase before you even received it.
True
For over a year Julie and I have been subscribing to you because we appreciate your perspective. You are correct that too often gamers are influenced by FOMO and smoke and mirrors. Since 2012 we have been fortunate that only 2 games to date have not delivered out of 250 games backed. Lately we have waited for post production reviews and back reprints such as The Castles of Burgundy: Special Edition, Terrorscape, and Tales from the Red Dragon Inn. On the other hand, we go out of our way to champion small publishers without compensation and often without future free product such as Holotype: Mesozoic Europe, Defrag, Sirens, 16 Candies, Potions of Azerland, and Effortless.
It's gotten worse for sure. A lot of games made a lot of money but are just ok or worse. Some good games do of course make a lot of money too, but we need to look at each game and see if we really think we're going to like it, and are we going to get it played?
And I'd say we do need to be aware of along with the issues with AI art.
you mentioned a game call Fall of Lumen just a few weeks ago. game is pretty good. seems better for multiplayer than solo and im a solo gamer so didnt hit it out of the park for me but still a really good game. however, the reprint as part of that campaign, Legends of Void, is flippin' fantastic! stupid good. all kinds of build variety as you attempt to take down 3 big bads using Terraform Mars esque card tags via engine building and powers. love it love it. so i totally get where we need to be focusing on good > focusing on dollars.
I have always assumed that game publishing was a fairly low margin business, at least for all but the largest enterprises. Do you know how all the costs and expenses really add up, and what the profit usually is?
I don't pay any attention to how much money a campaign is raising. It is great to get a relatively unbiased "review" that explains what's good and bad about a game, a preview description may be enough for me to make an assessment.
Another thing I don't get is: "will it hold its value".
Our tastes are not identical, but you do a good job.
I think the margin is pretty high
I cannot agree more. I've found myself cancelling pledges recently when seeing the "daily unlocks" that should be directly to the game from the beginning, campaigns that start adding "extensions" (how many of these have been tested and moreover, how many of these I need without knowing the game?)... all of this makes me thing that something is wrong in the game and they just want the money.
As usual, thanks for the video, it is great and direct
I was close to backing a vtuber TCG and the DC20 TTRPG mostly because of the additional rewards, but then distanced myself from it and looked at it again. Do I really need the game or additional rewards? Came to the conclusion no, I still have many other things to play and will just wait when it is there and see
It doesn't matter to how much a game raises. It matters if it's delivered, at least close to on-time, with quality promised.
Haven't been officially burned - yet - but Lasting Tales, especially, is making me VERY nervous.
Interesting perspective. I have backed early to get Early Bird pricing and backed out at the end because it didn't fit the backing criteria I have. I know I'm a minority but my decision process really doesn't rely on loads of other people wanting it. People like football (soccer) and horse racing personally I can't stand either. I don't need to be a sheep and follow them. Much prefer rugby as a spectator sport. But if you like it then go for it, but as you have championed for many a year, evaluate what it is, whether you are going to actually play it, whether it is a purchase now or a trade later. I'm still waiting for the Merchants Cove expansion to arrive, I'm not sure if it will get palyed now, what a monumental waste!!
Have fun, stay safe and thanks for keeping me entertained.
There are a lot of boardgames being made right now that don't have a strong reason to be made, *especially* in the form they often take on crowdfunding.
Yes at the end of the day games are products, but when so many releases are derivative versions of other recent games that are bloated beyond recognition with expansions, add-on modules, and extraneous content. It is hard to not just view the majority of these campaigns through the lens of the 'game' being secondary to monetizing the 'idea' of the game.
Can’t wait for the Master and Commander Tactical Board Game. The ship minis are awesome.
the problem are the consumers, the publishers are really just following the market trends
100%. I’m glad this video is encouraging consumers to be more discerning.
Terraria just raised a ton of money without having a rulebook or overview video. What is this telling publishers about the consumer?
For my last crowdfunding game, I developed a demo for BGA to make it as easy as possible for people to actually play the game. This barely got recognized or mentioned. What does this tell me as a publisher?
@@drewwilliams2231 consumers are little more than trend followers that want to be held in high regard in their social circles
for what they have bought. That's it.
When does the merch come? I need a stay classy T-shirt! Keep up the good work!
I have started taking the stance on rules being available at the start of the campaign and on the campaign page. If you are waiting until the last week or couple of days to post rules, maybe a publisher should wait that time before their campaign starts. I can handle a disclaimer saying it is a work in progress. I just want to know the basics to determine if the game is for me before handing over my money.
If the game is in development, this likely isn't possible or could be misleading. If you do not believe in the team behind the campaign, definitely don't back it. However, this requirement of a rule book misses the original point of crowdfunding which indie groups use to fund operations before a product is finished. If this concept does not sit well, I would not recommend being a backer.
@@Bob_Co I understand your point, and do appreciate it. Having a rulebook shows thought and intention to where the game's design is going. We all hear publishers and reviewers' commenting that this is a work in progress and things may change. We all accept that as part of crowdfunding. Those previewers/reviewers had to have a basic set of rules to conduct their playthroughs to do their reviews, so why not have publishers share that as the campaign goes live? As stated previously, I am okay with change and disclaimers the rules presented during the campaign may not reflect the final product. In the end you are right though, if the campaign concept doesn't sit well don't back.
I agree about how crowdfunding has changed - read the comments section of Renegade's Unstoppable which covers this in a lot more detail.
For me the worst offender with SGs are Odalin... I ended up cancelling my pledge solely because I refused to back such a bad company policy...
lots of their SGs where the ability to fight bosses in the game and one they where very proud of was a boss that turned out to be the major plot of Act 2. None of this has anything to do with SGs as the game couldn't function probaly without these. They got pressured into changing their bad SGs so any newer SGs are more in line with what a SG would be.
I would hope more people voted with their wallet and told these companies not to treat costumers as idiots who can't see through their bullshit
Good conversation.
2 cents
1- Customers have to be accountable for responding to those tactics. If it didnt work the campaigns won't do it.
2- I've started to unfollow channels that now all they have is "previews" to campaigns without any additional value, critique or comparison to other games. A good balance is Alex. He mentions any conflict of interest and proceeds to critique the game and suggest other comparable ones). That's useful. If 3-4 more did that, it would be great.
Alex is super biased! Before you Play only does play throughs with no mention of likability whatsoever, brothers murph has an acquired taste, one stop is just too nice to give an actual opinion. The only ones I see giving actual opinions are Liege and hungry gamer, that is til hungry starts getting paid I can see his opinion changing.
I think that since Prof Meg got involved in the channel, there are many more previews, and then he can get more biased. He is good at summarizing games but not good at playthroughs. John LaRuffa is good for solo reviews and Broken Meeple and Shelfside do pretty balanced reviews.
Agree with this. Just check out One-Stop’s “criticism” of Ironwood’s solo play where he uses lots of verbiage and is too afraid to just say “no good”.
I became intrigued by Botany, Bear Mountain Camping Adventure, and recently Brink. I have even backed at the beginning of those campaigns. However, after really looking into the gameplay, cost, and whether it would be played, I cancelled all three pledges.
Thankfully with Brink, I know that it’ll be available in future campaigns. However, the other two games didn’t have many gameplay videos which is a huge red flag to me. They also did the pre-pledge exclusive thing which is pretty frowned upon.
I still believe that it’s the backers responsibility to be aware of marketing tactics and find the games that work for us, while sifting through those games that don’t.
Good topic.
Yeah, right. But that was really obvious for quite some months already. there are still some small publishers that need and deserve crowdfunding and also deliver nice games.
Do you like Spirit Island or don't? I didnt get 😅
I think he meant that it doesn't need crowdfunding, and there are no real stretch goals or anything. It could go straight to retail
@@TheTintinjbyeah but I whould like wether he likes the game
Truth. Thanks for having the courage to talk about this.
THEN: a fool and their money are soon parted.
NOW: a backer and their money…
If you fall for their manipulative sales tactics you are by definition a sucker. People get so triggered when you call them that lol.
As soon as people see "funded" they jump on. If it's only 50% funded, they're hesitant. All products work like this sadly. People buy based on looks, appeal, and popularity. But publishers need playthroughs and reviews before even putting up the game. That would be helpful
The CMON Marvel Zombies shipping bait and switch really left a bad taste in my mouth. I think I've backed 1 game since then. Then again, I may have reached a saturation point on my ability to get a game on the table...
Ok. Good perspective. But now what? External or self regulation? Probably will not happen. Best remedy is informed consumers. So, keep speaking the truth. Agree with other comments saying Alex is a great standard to hold up.
The masses are unwise, story as old as time.
@@arcaderunner2188, yes but still, caveat emptor…
Zombicide campaigns raise tons of money, but Zombicide games are very mediocre. I'm sure their funding is aided by the fact that a certain TH-camr with a huge conflict of interest pumps every game/campaign CMON makes every chance he gets and even resorts to insulting people who have a problem with their campaigns.
Cysmic stuff. All of that smell fishy
You clearly did not read the update about it.
I’m not sure why I ever listen to this guy. He says the same things in every video he has.