I randomly got this recommended but i found it cool that the elevater had a mini "elevator" controlling the relays. Thats how impressive analog tech is
Im the elevator mechanic that maintained these two specific units for the last 5 years. I can provide the address of the the building and a detailed description of the K&H hand switch car that is right down the hall from these two cars as proof.
@@davidhorner5655 you’ve certainly done a great job maintaining these! These are in incredible shape and run very well. That’s a pristine motor room too, I may add. I did record a video of the hand switch car (that will be put up soon) but not the motor room for it, and I’d love to hear your description of it. What sort of machinery it on?
Also what is that smaller rack of relays next to the MG set for? And what does that small motor mounted to it do? Sorry to ask a million questions, I’m just so amazed by all of this machinery and the mechanical logic, it’s way more complicated than the more simple relay logic stuff I typically see and decently know my way around, like UCL’s and 2BC’s.
The rack next to the MG is the starter panel for the MG set. The bigger contactor on the left is the 7 switch which closes the loop circuit. The small motor on the starter panel is called an RSBL, or rototrol split bridge leveling. It’s a rotating speed regulator. It adjusts car speed based on loop circuit voltage and current. That’s called an SD selector. It’s driven off of a selsyn drive on the deflector sheave.
Filmed one of these a long time back, search Express Lifts DMR lift. Westinghouse had the patent on that design, there must have been some connection between Express Lifts and Westinghouse - I did know what it was, but can't remember now! The platforms obviously represent the lift. One side is finding upward calls, the other is downward. There are two stepper motors above the cabinet (you showed them) - these are linked directly to the revolutions of the motor (hence platform moves in sync), but it's linked 'electrically' to the main motor. When the lift finds a call, you can see a relay click (3:04) which causes the 'cartridge' to start going into the platform. There are switches on this cartridge which gradually activate the further the cartridge goes into the platform. Each switch slows the lift until it stops. Essentially it's an 'advancer' to find a call before the lifts position, then to slow down gradually to the floor (easier to see in my video, as this one has relays all over it!). 3:27 - the cartridge resets, 3:31 - finds a call, relay activates, cartridge starts going in which is the slow down sequence again. As there's only one elevator running, this lift is very busy. One of those cabinets is the dispatcher - wonder if it had loads of neon indicators on it? (see part 2 of my video). Very interesting elevator! Used to know a bit about these lifts, but as before, long time since I've seen a video featuring this design so you're really lucky to film something like this.
@@mrmattandmrchay thank you for the information! And yes, I have seen that video! I was actually thinking of how this was quite similar to that when I saw this. I bet you’re right about one of these being a dispatcher. I didn’t expect there to be one when I was filming since there are only two cars so I unfortunately didn’t check inside the other cabinets to see. When I’m back in this city I’ll certainly make a point to check.
@@elevatorsoflakecountyTV I'd be great if you could get more footage. This is one of the most interesting systems I've ever seen! How did you get into the motor room, was the door unlocked?
@@mrmattandmrchay yes! The door was propped open and I decided that something like this would be way too cool to pass up! And I certainly will get more footage if I ever return, and more pictures as well. I’d also like to add that I have some very special videos of some other extraordinary systems coming in the next couple months ;)
@@mrmattandmrchay the selector and lift are linked together with selsyn motors, they have three phase AC windings on both the motor and receiver and 100v AC is applied to the slip rings to power it like an alternator, if one turns the other turns by the same amount much like the mechanically coupled Otis selector but with the magic of electricity so it could be mounted anywhere. These were originally developed for military use so when the gun sight was aimed the season sets would elevate and rotate the guns to match the sight, accurate and fast for cannons and turret guns remote control so amazing technology for a lift at the time. The kone thyroglide system was essentially a solid state TTL copy of the DMR using a copy of the express / Westinghouse ward Leonard regulator to drive the generator fields via two thyristors from a center tapped transformer.
This is really cool! One of the elevators at my work is all electromechanical like this (built in 1954). It's a lot simpler looking than this one but I was amazed when I found the door to the motor room and saw the bank of relays clicking away
Wild machinery. Beats hydraulics. Those multi phase motors are impressive from the commutators and brushes to the castings. OSHA hasn't been in here, I can tell. All the exposed electrical !!
My G'Father born 1922 went to work as an installer for Otis shortly after the war then was a state inspector after that. Cool vintage stuff there. Bet it smells great.
I never thought I would get to ride a westy with DMR control in my life, but turns out I did without knowing by riding these exact elevators. It's so cool to finally see the inner workings of of this thing.
Spectacular! We need to get you in there with a dozen cameras, all synchronized, so you can have every angle covered and splice the footage together later. As for the selector motor, I think one is "where the car wants to be" and the other is "where the car is now", then something measures the displacement to determine the motor acceleration. If there's a big offset, it runs fast, then as it catches up, the offset decreases and so does the speed. I have no idea about these things, but if I had to design a high-speed mechanical control from scratch, that's what I'd do!
@@myself248 the smaller one was the advance motor, it moved the carriage ahead of the lift, the lift however didn’t accelerate as the iron copper core moves out of the transducer but with the acceleration setting on the regulator that controls the generator fields with two thyristors
I would guess that my grandfather, Dan Santini, was possibly involved in or maybe approved that installation. You mentioned it was upgraded by Westinghouse Elevator in 1966 - so the design, bidding, and contract would have been before that. My grandfather retired from Westinghouse Elevator in December, 1965 and was VP of Engineering and Design at the time he retired. He was a very hands on guy, so I imagine he at least reviewed the plans. BTW - I noticed a date of "5-66" on the bottom left one of the plates (at 6:08).
I recall seeing the stacked contact blocks (silverstats?) being assembled in second floor F Aisle at Westinghouse East Pittsburgh plant when i worked there in the 70s.
I used to look after about 12 of these (Express DMR with Mark 4 Despatcher) the coils you see on the selector have an Iron and brass rod that goes into the coil as the lift approaches the floor, as the distance changes the input into the amplifier decreases, about 2 feet away from floor a contact changes over a mercury wetted contact so the deceleration signal changes from the tapered signal on the selector to a tapered plate in the shaft with an AC transducer that works the same way so speed reduces across the tapered plate or sees the opposite plate if there is an over shoot. Final levelling is confirmed by a light bulb shining through a hole in the middle of the plate which activated the LVD relay to stop the lift. Gives an S curve into the floor which gives very fast floor to floor times
I would fly all the way to you, just for you to show me the DMR system and everything that you mentioned. The DMR lift I filmed was in London Victoria, the old Rolls Royce building. This was back in 2009, but it was totally removed only 3 months after I filmed it. I know someone who has found the device that you mentioned on top of the lift car (lift was modded, but this was left on the car top). It was like a box, with lots of switches inside it, with a roller that moved up and down an angled ramp on the lift shaft wall. This had what look liked a transformer cut in half (looked like two magnets that engaged with oneanother). I'm assuming there are none of these left from where you're from?!
@@mrmattandmrchay that roller is the “slow down box” the lift has to be below the speed as each contact opens or the safety circuit will open and stop the lift so effectively in parallel with all the speed check relays so you can’t go flying into the end zone at full speed, the process is known in the data as “reduced speed buffering”
@@liftguy30 I have a question about the car top roller. When rotated, it makes contact with the shaft mounted ramps. But when the lift is travelling, I'm assuming the roller is retracted (like a retiring cam) to that it doesn't make a physical connection with any of the floor ramps until it needs to? Perhaps this is the function of, what looked like, a transformed cut in half? Maybe its like a repelling magnet to move the roller out of the way when travelling? If you can send me your email then I can send a few photos of it?
Mitsubishi also used this exact system for their high speed lifts up till the mid 70s. 4 years back, I managed to get into a bank of 6 DMR cars, but sadly the building was demolished not long afterwards
What the selector does, it is an analogue computer to align the cars with the door, it will be set up to match the parameters of the actual drives in use. It obviously also decides on the next call to answer based on the relay logic. You don’t see that much anymore, but it is highly robust, accurate and all the contacts can be replaced, or for the logic section the individual relays, it is standardised so only a few spares need be kept (a few contact sets, a couple of relays and fuses). No semiconductors means it will survive a lightning strike or nearby nuclear blast. Nowadays everything is VSD drives and software, nothing like as robust, or as repairable.
This is not DMR. This is type of control is RSBL (Regulated Split Bridge Leveling). The selector is an SD (selsyn drive) type. Notice there are no silverstat contacts on the side of the machine where they would be located if this was DMR operation. Also there are no reactor coils on the selector carriage where they would be if this was DMR. Haven’t read all the comments so if someone pointed this out I missed it.
@@jmfstl11 ah, interesting. I was unsure exactly of what sort this was because the data tags said “2BCRSBLDMR” so I wasn’t sure if it was one or the other or both. But thank you so much for this information!! Any more that you’re willing to share I am more than happy to read about, with how long ago that stuff existed there no good way to find out about it anymore besides talking to those who still have the knowledge.
Those would be the resistance banks switched into the motor circuit for both fine position control, and also to accelerate the car gently, not just for passenger comfort, it reduces stress on the cables and wear on the brakes.
They are called grid resisters, and are in the starting circuit for the motor generator ("MG") to reduce starting current. Notice that they are right next to the MG sets.
The selector locks onto the selected floor and then begins the ‘smooth’ ramp up or ramp down for acceleration and breaking (the sliding action) This looks exactly like the Express DMR selector I’ve seen in another video. I think the technology was borrowed from Westinghouse.
Not at all impressed with the poor housekeeping of this equipment room. The building owner should be ashamed of the way this equipment and the room is being maintained. Obviously the thought is, well, is JUST elevator equipment so it really doesn’t matter😩
I swear, all of that stuff is a work of art! The time and care it took to build it is amazing!
I randomly got this recommended but i found it cool that the elevater had a mini "elevator" controlling the relays. Thats how impressive analog tech is
The Relays are digital! 1 or 0
Haha welcome to the club... Now go look up "otis elevator pie plate selector", that's some really fun mechanical logic.
It amazes me how people can understand and repair this stuff
That's why there are prints/etc lol
You didn’t plug your laptop in and have it tell you what’s wrong.
Im the elevator mechanic that maintained these two specific units for the last 5 years. I can provide the address of the the building and a detailed description of the K&H hand switch car that is right down the hall from these two cars as proof.
@@davidhorner5655 you’ve certainly done a great job maintaining these! These are in incredible shape and run very well. That’s a pristine motor room too, I may add. I did record a video of the hand switch car (that will be put up soon) but not the motor room for it, and I’d love to hear your description of it. What sort of machinery it on?
Also what is that smaller rack of relays next to the MG set for? And what does that small motor mounted to it do? Sorry to ask a million questions, I’m just so amazed by all of this machinery and the mechanical logic, it’s way more complicated than the more simple relay logic stuff I typically see and decently know my way around, like UCL’s and 2BC’s.
Você é um excelente profissional..
The rack next to the MG is the starter panel for the MG set. The bigger contactor on the left is the 7 switch which closes the loop circuit. The small motor on the starter panel is called an RSBL, or rototrol split bridge leveling. It’s a rotating speed regulator. It adjusts car speed based on loop circuit voltage and current. That’s called an SD selector. It’s driven off of a selsyn drive on the deflector sheave.
Filmed one of these a long time back, search Express Lifts DMR lift. Westinghouse had the patent on that design, there must have been some connection between Express Lifts and Westinghouse - I did know what it was, but can't remember now! The platforms obviously represent the lift. One side is finding upward calls, the other is downward. There are two stepper motors above the cabinet (you showed them) - these are linked directly to the revolutions of the motor (hence platform moves in sync), but it's linked 'electrically' to the main motor.
When the lift finds a call, you can see a relay click (3:04) which causes the 'cartridge' to start going into the platform. There are switches on this cartridge which gradually activate the further the cartridge goes into the platform. Each switch slows the lift until it stops. Essentially it's an 'advancer' to find a call before the lifts position, then to slow down gradually to the floor (easier to see in my video, as this one has relays all over it!). 3:27 - the cartridge resets, 3:31 - finds a call, relay activates, cartridge starts going in which is the slow down sequence again. As there's only one elevator running, this lift is very busy.
One of those cabinets is the dispatcher - wonder if it had loads of neon indicators on it? (see part 2 of my video).
Very interesting elevator! Used to know a bit about these lifts, but as before, long time since I've seen a video featuring this design so you're really lucky to film something like this.
@@mrmattandmrchay thank you for the information! And yes, I have seen that video! I was actually thinking of how this was quite similar to that when I saw this. I bet you’re right about one of these being a dispatcher. I didn’t expect there to be one when I was filming since there are only two cars so I unfortunately didn’t check inside the other cabinets to see. When I’m back in this city I’ll certainly make a point to check.
@@elevatorsoflakecountyTV I'd be great if you could get more footage. This is one of the most interesting systems I've ever seen! How did you get into the motor room, was the door unlocked?
@@mrmattandmrchay yes! The door was propped open and I decided that something like this would be way too cool to pass up! And I certainly will get more footage if I ever return, and more pictures as well. I’d also like to add that I have some very special videos of some other extraordinary systems coming in the next couple months ;)
@@mrmattandmrchay the selector and lift are linked together with selsyn motors, they have three phase AC windings on both the motor and receiver and 100v AC is applied to the slip rings to power it like an alternator, if one turns the other turns by the same amount much like the mechanically coupled Otis selector but with the magic of electricity so it could be mounted anywhere. These were originally developed for military use so when the gun sight was aimed the season sets would elevate and rotate the guns to match the sight, accurate and fast for cannons and turret guns remote control so amazing technology for a lift at the time. The kone thyroglide system was essentially a solid state TTL copy of the DMR using a copy of the express / Westinghouse ward Leonard regulator to drive the generator fields via two thyristors from a center tapped transformer.
@@liftguy30 That sounds like an early drive by wire system, sort of like the ones used in vehicles today except this is more complex lol
Amazing piece of machinery! That controller is so intricate. Thanks for this tour!
This is really cool! One of the elevators at my work is all electromechanical like this (built in 1954). It's a lot simpler looking than this one but I was amazed when I found the door to the motor room and saw the bank of relays clicking away
Wild machinery. Beats hydraulics. Those multi phase motors are impressive from the commutators and brushes to the castings. OSHA hasn't been in here, I can tell. All the exposed electrical !!
My G'Father born 1922 went to work as an installer for Otis shortly after the war then was a state inspector after that. Cool vintage stuff there. Bet it smells great.
I never thought I would get to ride a westy with DMR control in my life, but turns out I did without knowing by riding these exact elevators. It's so cool to finally see the inner workings of of this thing.
If you ever went to sears tower before the recent Otis mod those were DMR too!
@@elevatorsoflakecountyTV I've never even been to chicago but who knows... maybe it will be next
Spectacular! We need to get you in there with a dozen cameras, all synchronized, so you can have every angle covered and splice the footage together later.
As for the selector motor, I think one is "where the car wants to be" and the other is "where the car is now", then something measures the displacement to determine the motor acceleration. If there's a big offset, it runs fast, then as it catches up, the offset decreases and so does the speed. I have no idea about these things, but if I had to design a high-speed mechanical control from scratch, that's what I'd do!
And you'd be absolutely spot-on!
@@myself248 the smaller one was the advance motor, it moved the carriage ahead of the lift, the lift however didn’t accelerate as the iron copper core moves out of the transducer but with the acceleration setting on the regulator that controls the generator fields with two thyristors
@@liftguy30 Controlling generator fields sounds like a Ward Leonard setup, or perhaps an Alexanderson amplidyne?
There were some very clever engineers backin the day👌
That selectors means one thing and one thing only, this is indeed a Westinghouse DMR relay logic system!
I would guess that my grandfather, Dan Santini, was possibly involved in or maybe approved that installation. You mentioned it was upgraded by Westinghouse Elevator in 1966 - so the design, bidding, and contract would have been before that. My grandfather retired from Westinghouse Elevator in December, 1965 and was VP of Engineering and Design at the time he retired. He was a very hands on guy, so I imagine he at least reviewed the plans. BTW - I noticed a date of "5-66" on the bottom left one of the plates (at 6:08).
@@andydickey very interesting! And yes, I did notice that while looking through pictures I took after the video!
I have a feeling i know exactly where these are! Awesome you got to see the Machine Room for them!
@@FloridianElevators I have a feeling you do too, haha. You’ve been on these on a recent trip I’ll say that much ;)
Pure hardware. No software needed.
Fascinating
I recall seeing the stacked contact blocks (silverstats?) being assembled in second floor F Aisle at Westinghouse East Pittsburgh plant when i worked there in the 70s.
Reminds me of when I worked in the old steel mills
I used to look after about 12 of these (Express DMR with Mark 4 Despatcher) the coils you see on the selector have an Iron and brass rod that goes into the coil as the lift approaches the floor, as the distance changes the input into the amplifier decreases, about 2 feet away from floor a contact changes over a mercury wetted contact so the deceleration signal changes from the tapered signal on the selector to a tapered plate in the shaft with an AC transducer that works the same way so speed reduces across the tapered plate or sees the opposite plate if there is an over shoot. Final levelling is confirmed by a light bulb shining through a hole in the middle of the plate which activated the LVD relay to stop the lift. Gives an S curve into the floor which gives very fast floor to floor times
@@liftguy30 thank you for the info!!
Is this Synchro-glide leveling?
I would fly all the way to you, just for you to show me the DMR system and everything that you mentioned. The DMR lift I filmed was in London Victoria, the old Rolls Royce building. This was back in 2009, but it was totally removed only 3 months after I filmed it. I know someone who has found the device that you mentioned on top of the lift car (lift was modded, but this was left on the car top). It was like a box, with lots of switches inside it, with a roller that moved up and down an angled ramp on the lift shaft wall. This had what look liked a transformer cut in half (looked like two magnets that engaged with oneanother). I'm assuming there are none of these left from where you're from?!
@@mrmattandmrchay that roller is the “slow down box” the lift has to be below the speed as each contact opens or the safety circuit will open and stop the lift so effectively in parallel with all the speed check relays so you can’t go flying into the end zone at full speed, the process is known in the data as “reduced speed buffering”
@@liftguy30 I have a question about the car top roller. When rotated, it makes contact with the shaft mounted ramps. But when the lift is travelling, I'm assuming the roller is retracted (like a retiring cam) to that it doesn't make a physical connection with any of the floor ramps until it needs to? Perhaps this is the function of, what looked like, a transformed cut in half? Maybe its like a repelling magnet to move the roller out of the way when travelling? If you can send me your email then I can send a few photos of it?
So functional and pretty
Mitsubishi also used this exact system for their high speed lifts up till the mid 70s. 4 years back, I managed to get into a bank of 6 DMR cars, but sadly the building was demolished not long afterwards
@@LiftyGamez that’s awesome! Were you able to get a video?
@@elevatorsoflakecountyTV yep just havent uploaded yet
@@LiftyGamez Can't wait to see this!!
What the selector does, it is an analogue computer to align the cars with the door, it will be set up to match the parameters of the actual drives in use. It obviously also decides on the next call to answer based on the relay logic.
You don’t see that much anymore, but it is highly robust, accurate and all the contacts can be replaced, or for the logic section the individual relays, it is standardised so only a few spares need be kept (a few contact sets, a couple of relays and fuses). No semiconductors means it will survive a lightning strike or nearby nuclear blast.
Nowadays everything is VSD drives and software, nothing like as robust, or as repairable.
Nice, nice, nice ❤❤❤
electro mechanical stuff is so neat so much going on.
@@Jkush463 so much to watch! I only wish it could have run for longer while I was filming so I could have gotten more footage haha
3:07 looks like the seen in Interstellar when they're in between dimensions.
Gearless dc...... forever! Affascinanti, per me i migliori ascensori di sempre!👍
4:09 i think is the soft start soft brake. See if it is corelated with the starting and stopping. Also, see were are the relays for the level .
Looks like a Elector-Mechaical Night mare ! Similar contacts, all over, much like an old Bally Pinball machine, Times 1000 LOL!
I can see Paul Hogan saying "Now this is a motor"
I’m guessing that controller in the cabinet steps through the speed function reducing hard starts and stops. Just a guess.
This is not DMR. This is type of control is RSBL (Regulated Split Bridge Leveling). The selector is an SD (selsyn drive) type. Notice there are no silverstat contacts on the side of the machine where they would be located if this was DMR operation. Also there are no reactor coils on the selector carriage where they would be if this was DMR. Haven’t read all the comments so if someone pointed this out I missed it.
@@jmfstl11 ah, interesting. I was unsure exactly of what sort this was because the data tags said “2BCRSBLDMR” so I wasn’t sure if it was one or the other or both. But thank you so much for this information!! Any more that you’re willing to share I am more than happy to read about, with how long ago that stuff existed there no good way to find out about it anymore besides talking to those who still have the knowledge.
Looks like the inside of my EM Pinball machine.
How do they get the parts?
I have no clue, if I had to guess that’s probably difficult for them!
What are those strange looking blocks of coils at 0:48? They look like radiator coils or electric resistance heaters of some kind
@@lincolnhunt9558 I’m honestly not sure. Probably some sort of resistors as you mentioned, if I had to guess.
Those would be the resistance banks switched into the motor circuit for both fine position control, and also to accelerate the car gently, not just for passenger comfort, it reduces stress on the cables and wear on the brakes.
They are called grid resisters, and are in the starting circuit for the motor generator ("MG") to reduce starting current. Notice that they are right next to the MG sets.
The selector locks onto the selected floor and then begins the ‘smooth’ ramp up or ramp down for acceleration and breaking (the sliding action) This looks exactly like the Express DMR selector I’ve seen in another video. I think the technology was borrowed from Westinghouse.
Interesting 🧐
Yooo! Where is this!??
@@Elevrsurfing Cleveland Ohio
@@elevatorsoflakecountyTV Awesome!!! Never thought I would see stuff like the in it's orginal state!!
Nice
This kind of machinery is designed for fail-safe operation, and for continuous long term operation.
Hard to believe that something with so many moving parts can be reliable.
@@ncooper8438 You never hear about someone getting hurt in an elevator malfunction. Regular maintenance is the key.
It reminds me of a bally slot machine 1980's
What's the fpm?
@@bloxbious 600
built to last
sounds like an old pinball machine
if the car aligns within a foot on entrace your doing alright
Not at all impressed with the poor housekeeping of this equipment room. The building owner should be ashamed of the way this equipment and the room is being maintained.
Obviously the thought is, well, is JUST elevator equipment so it really doesn’t matter😩