Yes! Been looking forward to this! Hard to find Vids showcasing Vigny's Cane system so Thank You! Look forward to more European martial arts using the cane!
Hooking an opponent's neck or limb in a real fight seems unlikely, but I appreciate your research. Also crook canes so practical for everyday carry, to secure on arm or belt -- there instantly when needed for balance or defense and less threatening-looking than others. I'm studying Doyle-style Irish stick (bataireicht) myself.
Your first point is what I tried to say at the end of the video, so we agree in that point. But infact these hooking is a way less fashy then some knots you will get taught today 🙃 I once take part in a seminar for the Dolyle style, very nice practical method 👌
I use a cane because of a parachute accident in the Army. I use a solid hickory crook cane, my friend hand-made for me. We have trained traditional martial arts together for several decades. While the crook is not the primary use of the weapon, it's there for targets of opportunities. Also, by gripping the inside of the crook, one can swing the cane in the manner of a tonfa. That tip is humming! Lots of velocity. Also...Its solid hickory. Great for breaking those pesky bones in bad guys. 😊
Fantastic, you take a couple of old pictures and made them come alive 😀 👍. Like the hat 🎩 . You are right, today canes with no crook are very rare. Unfortunately there is little materiel from Vigny. If i might repeat myself the book by Lang ("an Indian officer") is the only complete method of stick fighting that remains from that time, 1926?, and it's only for strikes at a distance. So what about more from the pictures of bartitsu, or Lang? Cheers
Let's see hiw I feel about the hat, when I am done with some other Videos for canonical Bartitsu cane 🙃 I am 'afraid' of I have opened a Box of cookies and everyone wants more 😄🍪 And you really want to see some H.G. Lang. You will get it 🤝 but this will definetely took some time 😅
I have never seen a better exposition of Bartitsu cane. Superb. Thank-you. I have no interest in Bartitsu cane for all the reasons you give at the end.
@@davidsmith2038 thank's, but to be fair, there are also usable aspects in Canne Vigny and if it comes to hooking there is even more in todays systems 🙃 I would resonse the same to them as well 😉
I will put that on my list 😉 Let me have a look into some cane and umbrella sources from the 19th cent. Because I do not remember a specific one, but at least I could do a vid anyway 🙃
@@briangutekunst5335 it's called a boater in English. I get this one from eBay. It's infact no problem to get one of those today if one knows what to look for 🙂
put your lead leg back at the same time your pulling his head down then use the knee to strike at the moment the head is down instead of waiting on the switch
@@OliverJanseps change doesnt necessarily mean more or less efficient, would you, if you havent already; try it a few times then get backwith me about its efficiency... i no longer have sparring partners so i would like to hear about it from your experience.
Definetely, also no one said this is the best variation, but it's the historical akkurat one 😉 I could imagin what will happend, but to be sure I will give it a try on the weekend 👍
@@OliverJanseps i appreciate you taking the time to respond and interact. and without the styles from history we could never have achieved the variations.
@OliverJanseps Not an insult!! Fashion is cultural and social language and, while I don't know you, I can tell from how it sits and how you wear it that it is perfectly articulating the figure of Oliver Janseps through your fashion sense. I don't know you, but I could see you. When I say "human expat to The Shire" what I'm saying is that it gives you an almost mythical yet homey vibe while not at all appearing to be in a costume. The form shape and intent all seamlessly come together into a cohesive statement. Or to make it more literal to my metaphor... you aren't some human copying Shire aesthetics, you are a man who moved there and become part of that culture and world without sacrificing the things that make you unique. Its not assimilation, but adaptation and evolution. And all together it gives this beautifully blended style of both modernity and a more traditional age. Jfc reading that back, can you tell I studied philosophy? 🤣 I hope this makes sense!!! I love the look and I love that your feeling comfortable in it. You look cool as hell, but most of all, you look like you without me even knowing you
If one feels unsafe, first thing should always be doing some (good) martial arts and real self-defense courses. Just carrying a tool one cant use is no benefit. But back to your "problem". A umbrella looked also weird in best hot summer 😉 If you are trained you look different, your body speaks different, and so it's with carrying a cane. You have to dont care what other might be thinking. I was one on vacation in NY City and bought an old shillelagh at the fleah market in hells Kirchen early in the morning. I had to carry it the whole day. Okay it was NY but I did not feel weird no one was really looking as I thought 😅
@@OliverJanseps I'm actually learn silat from my father, and learn arnis to. Maybe i care much about people around me, because i think they will say "young man, carry cane? That's odd?". Maybe i need to change my mindset and Don't care about what people think why I'm carry cane sometimes.
I already thought you were training something. This fors more a generall reminder for the silent readers 😉 Silat is great! Also great in and for overall movement Art 👌 If I would carry a cane, I would prefer a crook or Derby just because one can hang it over things if not needed, over your own arm etc. So it's no big Handicap in real life.
gebt ihr einführungsseminare? ich bin par hundert kilometer entfernt in hamburg, finde deine ausstrahlung sehr angenehm und habe echt bock auf eine einführung in spazierstockkämpfen.
@@shortyxmoshpigx5488 erstmal danke für das Kompliment 🙂 Wir machen vor Ort eher nichts mehr. Allerdings finded man uns auf diversen Veranstaltungen über Deutschland verteilt. Anfang September sind wir in Dortmund, aber viel näher ist das auch nicht 🙃 Behalte mal den Communitytab im Blick, da poste ich Anstehendes in der Regel. Ich kann dich gerne aber auch mal anschreiben, wenn ich wieder in Hamburg bin, kommt schon mal vor.
@@OliverJanseps oh das wäre super! ich finde es wichtig daß lehrende eine angenehme ausstrahlung haben, ich suche mir meine crews viel danach aus. nimm das bitte wirklich als kompliment :)
Ok. In dem Kontext des Gesamtvideos sieht das schon ganz anders aus als in dem reinen Ausschnitt der Shorts. Da kann man die noch etwas abgehackte Fußarbeit im erklärenden Kontext verzeihen.
The knee strike took too many steps. As soon as you brought his head down with the cane, your rear leg should have been moving into the knee strike. With the extra movement, it is enough for your opponent to see what is coming ( telegraphing your move), and counter.
@@SpencY9130 could be, I would not say you are wrong 🙃 I just can tell you that the creation of this play had the idea to not give a maybe poorly knee from a downwarded position, instead of lay the bodyweight on his shoulders as in a sprawl and bring the legs back to not get grabbed. So you can load an even harder knee.
Human mechanics are human mechanics. Our bones and joints are all built similar so it will look similar. The thing that changes is the way the stick looks and where it is used. That will have repercussions on how to use it.
@@OliverJanseps given that I doubt we will ever know how many people fell prey to the Ripper, I doubt that we can make that assumption. Even today, we have thousands of missing persons cases that remain unsolved - back then, it would have been much easier for someone to disappear from those streets.
No way I would use the hook to attach to the opponent. Great way to lose the cane. Thinking the criminal is slower or weaker than you are, OR that you can have great timing is too risky.
Please Consider Doce Pares, Escrima Sticks Philippine Martial Arts, Balintiwa, Silat, Or Ancient Abir Queseth, Abraham Defeated Thousands Of Soldiers with 300+ Shepherds
Insgesamt wirken diese Techniken doch sehr nach dem aus was heute moderne Self-Defense Power-Fantasien sind, die erfordern daß der Gegner drei Tempi Pause macht. Aber die Umsetzung im Video war gut. Das Material scheint nur... naja... zu sein.
Das kann ich nachvollziehen, geht mir nämlich ähnlich. Man darf an der Stelle nicht vergessen, dass es sich hierbei auch um "Werbung" für die eigene Schule handelt und Fantasien ansprechen ist da selten verkehrt. Man könnte auch sagen Barton Wright war 1902 seiner Zeit weit voraus und ist bereits in den 1980ern angekommen 😎😄 ... wenn es da nicht ähnliche Beispiele geben würde.
@@OliverJanseps In diesem Kontext ergibt das absolut Sinn! Vor allem wenn man dann über eine Anpassung von Details etwas Wirksames draus machen kann obwohl (oder besser weil) man von der Quelle abweicht (aber die Kernidee dadurch besser umsetzt).
Eben, es gibt nicht 'die eine Technik' und schon garnicht für jeden. HEMA kann immer nur eine Annäherung sein oder als Inspiration für modernes dienen.
@@OliverJanseps Ich glaube wir könnten viel Spaß miteinander haben. Aber Aachen ist ein Stück Richtung Westen :D Sehen wir uns in München beim Gathering 24?
@@Narguhl dann müssen wir den Spaß verschieben. Das Gathering bietet mir nicht die HEMA in dem ich unterwegs bin oder sagen wir ich habe für die Kurse so ziemlich nicht die passende Ausrüstung 😉 Das nächste große Event auf dem ich bin wird wohl die Tremonia Fechtschule sein. Aber Dortmund ist noch eine ganze Ecke weiter nördlich im Westen 🙃
@@glennhynes5263 it may an awful idea in most scenarios I agree, but always holding at your stick could also not be the best idea ever. But I guess this explizit sequence were more for demonstration purpose. And this is no jab, it's a lead punch. Old boxing of this time had no jab, it's an later invention in boxing.
Yes! Been looking forward to this! Hard to find Vids showcasing Vigny's Cane system so Thank You! Look forward to more European martial arts using the cane!
We were also irritated not to find anything in that direction.
A shortcoming that needs to be rectified 😉
This promises to be very good indeed 😀 Cheers
Thank you for your trust 😊
Einfache und gute Technik. Ich habe diese Art von Spazierstock, ein Geschenk. Wir warten auf die Fortsetzung. 👍🤝
Danke dir 👍
Ich mag solche Stöcke, einfach und elegant.
Ja, um eine Fortsetzung werden wir wohl nicht herum kommen 🙃
Thanks! Enjoyed the instruction.
You're welcome 🙂
And thank you 🙏👍
You really need to see the Southern Mantis Kungfu usage of the cane. It is extremely fast and effective.
I will look that up.
Last time I looked fot this style on YT there were just two Videos online. But they were great!
Guess it has been a while 😅
Hooking an opponent's neck or limb in a real fight seems unlikely, but I appreciate your research. Also crook canes so practical for everyday carry, to secure on arm or belt -- there instantly when needed for balance or defense and less threatening-looking than others. I'm studying Doyle-style Irish stick (bataireicht) myself.
Your first point is what I tried to say at the end of the video, so we agree in that point. But infact these hooking is a way less fashy then some knots you will get taught today 🙃
I once take part in a seminar for the Dolyle style, very nice practical method 👌
I use a cane because of a parachute accident in the Army. I use a solid hickory crook cane, my friend hand-made for me. We have trained traditional martial arts together for several decades. While the crook is not the primary use of the weapon, it's there for targets of opportunities. Also, by gripping the inside of the crook, one can swing the cane in the manner of a tonfa. That tip is humming! Lots of velocity. Also...Its solid hickory. Great for breaking those pesky bones in bad guys. 😊
'Targets for oportunities' I could not say it better ❤️🔥
A crooked Hickory cane is beautyfull in it's simplicity, I really like mine too.
And the crook adds weight like the knob on a shillelagh or vigny stick foe axe/mace type hits. Any stick, any style. 🙂
@@studer6884 exactly 👌
I guess a Derby grip would work fine too 😊
Fantastic, you take a couple of old pictures and made them come alive 😀 👍. Like the hat 🎩 . You are right, today canes with no crook are very rare. Unfortunately there is little materiel from Vigny. If i might repeat myself the book by Lang ("an Indian officer") is the only complete method of stick fighting that remains from that time, 1926?, and it's only for strikes at a distance. So what about more from the pictures of bartitsu, or Lang? Cheers
Let's see hiw I feel about the hat, when I am done with some other Videos for canonical Bartitsu cane 🙃 I am 'afraid' of I have opened a Box of cookies and everyone wants more 😄🍪
And you really want to see some H.G. Lang. You will get it 🤝 but this will definetely took some time 😅
Very interesting concepts!
The two hooks on the leg are infact a transfer from a sweep by the foot with the same kind of braking the structure and balance first.
The hat and cane make you look like a country gentleman, perhaps a doctor from a period drama.
Now I have some pictures in my mind 😅👌
You will not be surprised to hear that I like the hat. To answer your question, a gentleman for sure.
@@Javaman92 😅 guess what, after going to training and back many times, I got so comfortable with it, meanwhile I wear it in leisure time also 🙃
Most excellent.
@@EdVanMeyer thank you Sir!
I have never seen a better exposition of Bartitsu cane. Superb. Thank-you. I have no interest in Bartitsu cane for all the reasons you give at the end.
@@davidsmith2038 thank's, but to be fair, there are also usable aspects in Canne Vigny and if it comes to hooking there is even more in todays systems 🙃
I would resonse the same to them as well 😉
Hello, very interesting. I would like you to show us techniques when an attacker grabs your cane.
Thank you so much.
I will put that on my list 😉
Let me have a look into some cane and umbrella sources from the 19th cent. Because I do not remember a specific one, but at least I could do a vid anyway 🙃
Sehr schön gemacht 👍🏼
Danke Dir 👍🙏
Great now I want to watch sherlock holmes. The one with ironman. Thanks.
You're welcome 😁 enjoy!
I like the hat. Where can I get one?
@@briangutekunst5335 it's called a boater in English.
I get this one from eBay.
It's infact no problem to get one of those today if one knows what to look for 🙂
Sehr cooles Video!
Danke sehr 🙂
put your lead leg back at the same time your pulling his head down then use the knee to strike at the moment the head is down instead of waiting on the switch
This would also a possible variation. But it would change the pulling technique drastically.
@@OliverJanseps change doesnt necessarily mean more or less efficient, would you, if you havent already; try it a few times then get backwith me about its efficiency... i no longer have sparring partners so i would like to hear about it from your experience.
Definetely, also no one said this is the best variation, but it's the historical akkurat one 😉
I could imagin what will happend, but to be sure I will give it a try on the weekend 👍
@@OliverJanseps i appreciate you taking the time to respond and interact. and without the styles from history we could never have achieved the variations.
nice!
Thank you in advance Gary!
Let me know if you liked what you will see 😃
I will :)
@@OliverJanseps
The hat is called Boater. A frenchman shows videos about hats in his channel ,hat historian'.
@@brittakriep2938 and we call it 'Kreissäge' in Germany as I learned lately 😅
Thank's for the channel advise 👌
The outfit with the hat is giving human expat living in The Shire.
@@heck3143 thank you Sir!
Meanwhile I started to feel comfortable with it 😅😎
@OliverJanseps Not an insult!! Fashion is cultural and social language and, while I don't know you, I can tell from how it sits and how you wear it that it is perfectly articulating the figure of Oliver Janseps through your fashion sense. I don't know you, but I could see you.
When I say "human expat to The Shire" what I'm saying is that it gives you an almost mythical yet homey vibe while not at all appearing to be in a costume. The form shape and intent all seamlessly come together into a cohesive statement.
Or to make it more literal to my metaphor... you aren't some human copying Shire aesthetics, you are a man who moved there and become part of that culture and world without sacrificing the things that make you unique. Its not assimilation, but adaptation and evolution. And all together it gives this beautifully blended style of both modernity and a more traditional age.
Jfc reading that back, can you tell I studied philosophy? 🤣
I hope this makes sense!!! I love the look and I love that your feeling comfortable in it. You look cool as hell, but most of all, you look like you without me even knowing you
@@heck3143 this was a great read 😃
Thank you very much! And no, no hint you studied philosophy detected 😅🙃😉
I want to carry cane,but it will be weird to see 28 year old guys like me carry it for self defense purpose. Maybe carry umbrella is good thing.
If one feels unsafe, first thing should always be doing some (good) martial arts and real self-defense courses. Just carrying a tool one cant use is no benefit.
But back to your "problem".
A umbrella looked also weird in best hot summer 😉
If you are trained you look different, your body speaks different, and so it's with carrying a cane. You have to dont care what other might be thinking.
I was one on vacation in NY City and bought an old shillelagh at the fleah market in hells Kirchen early in the morning. I had to carry it the whole day. Okay it was NY but I did not feel weird no one was really looking as I thought 😅
@@OliverJanseps I'm actually learn silat from my father, and learn arnis to. Maybe i care much about people around me, because i think they will say "young man, carry cane? That's odd?". Maybe i need to change my mindset and Don't care about what people think why I'm carry cane sometimes.
I already thought you were training something. This fors more a generall reminder for the silent readers 😉
Silat is great! Also great in and for overall movement Art 👌
If I would carry a cane, I would prefer a crook or Derby just because one can hang it over things if not needed, over your own arm etc. So it's no big Handicap in real life.
gebt ihr einführungsseminare? ich bin par hundert kilometer entfernt in hamburg, finde deine ausstrahlung sehr angenehm und habe echt bock auf eine einführung in spazierstockkämpfen.
@@shortyxmoshpigx5488 erstmal danke für das Kompliment 🙂
Wir machen vor Ort eher nichts mehr. Allerdings finded man uns auf diversen Veranstaltungen über Deutschland verteilt. Anfang September sind wir in Dortmund, aber viel näher ist das auch nicht 🙃
Behalte mal den Communitytab im Blick, da poste ich Anstehendes in der Regel.
Ich kann dich gerne aber auch mal anschreiben, wenn ich wieder in Hamburg bin, kommt schon mal vor.
@@OliverJanseps oh das wäre super!
ich finde es wichtig daß lehrende eine angenehme ausstrahlung haben, ich suche mir meine crews viel danach aus. nimm das bitte wirklich als kompliment :)
@@shortyxmoshpigx5488 dann mache i h mir da mal eine Notiz 🙂
Ok. In dem Kontext des Gesamtvideos sieht das schon ganz anders aus als in dem reinen Ausschnitt der Shorts. Da kann man die noch etwas abgehackte Fußarbeit im erklärenden Kontext verzeihen.
Bedankt, da hab ich ja nochmal Glück gehabt 🙂😉
The knee strike took too many steps. As soon as you brought his head down with the cane, your rear leg should have been moving into the knee strike. With the extra movement, it is enough for your opponent to see what is coming ( telegraphing your move), and counter.
@@SpencY9130 could be, I would not say you are wrong 🙃
I just can tell you that the creation of this play had the idea to not give a maybe poorly knee from a downwarded position, instead of lay the bodyweight on his shoulders as in a sprawl and bring the legs back to not get grabbed. So you can load an even harder knee.
Professor Moriarty was an expert in this, did not help him much against an amateur boxer 😀
If the writer is on the boxers side, you have no chance 🙃😉
I like the hat🦊💚
I also fellt more comfortable with that hat over the time 😄
Jo Sawashiro be like 😂
🤔 must be true. I didn't read the the first time 😁
Art novou from clockwork orange vibes.
Great movie!
I need a bowler anyway 😁
Where can I get a Hat like this?
The Model is called "boater" or "Kreissäge" 🙃 in German.
If you know it, you will find them nearly anywhere 🙂
Nothing new in martial arts. Similar principles in Ninpo Tai Jitsu, Kali/Escrima and other martial art systems using stick methods.
Yeah, Humans come up with the same ideas for hurting others or lets say defending themselfs anywhere anytime 🙃
Human mechanics are human mechanics. Our bones and joints are all built similar so it will look similar.
The thing that changes is the way the stick looks and where it is used. That will have repercussions on how to use it.
Asian martial arts were borrowed, adapted & copied by the developer(s) of Bartitsu. Like any sensible Martial Artist Use Whatever works.
This is Europe not some backwater Asian jungle 🗿
Wrong😅
I'll keep this in mind if I ever run into Jack The Ripper.
If you aren't a female workung on the backstreets, this probably might not happend 🙃
@@OliverJanseps given that I doubt we will ever know how many people fell prey to the Ripper, I doubt that we can make that assumption. Even today, we have thousands of missing persons cases that remain unsolved - back then, it would have been much easier for someone to disappear from those streets.
From this point of view you will better have your cane at your side 😉
Imp baak nelib paudung! Guy Gigi a lop a pip?
Unfortunately I don't get it 🙁
No way I would use the hook to attach to the opponent. Great way to lose the cane. Thinking the criminal is slower or weaker than you are, OR that you can have great timing is too risky.
@@themadrazorback2019 sounds like you watched my statement on this techniques.
I agree to you 👌
Please Consider Doce Pares, Escrima Sticks Philippine Martial Arts, Balintiwa, Silat, Or Ancient Abir Queseth, Abraham Defeated Thousands Of Soldiers with 300+ Shepherds
If real weapons are not available, sticks and staffs were always welcome 🙂
Greetings from an old Inayan Eskrimador 👋
@@OliverJanseps 🙏🏽🕊🕎✝️Thankyou for Sharing
@@pauldaystar you're welcome, next one us in the making 😉
Insgesamt wirken diese Techniken doch sehr nach dem aus was heute moderne Self-Defense Power-Fantasien sind, die erfordern daß der Gegner drei Tempi Pause macht.
Aber die Umsetzung im Video war gut. Das Material scheint nur... naja... zu sein.
Das kann ich nachvollziehen, geht mir nämlich ähnlich. Man darf an der Stelle nicht vergessen, dass es sich hierbei auch um "Werbung" für die eigene Schule handelt und Fantasien ansprechen ist da selten verkehrt.
Man könnte auch sagen Barton Wright war 1902 seiner Zeit weit voraus und ist bereits in den 1980ern angekommen 😎😄 ... wenn es da nicht ähnliche Beispiele geben würde.
@@OliverJanseps In diesem Kontext ergibt das absolut Sinn!
Vor allem wenn man dann über eine Anpassung von Details etwas Wirksames draus machen kann obwohl (oder besser weil) man von der Quelle abweicht (aber die Kernidee dadurch besser umsetzt).
Eben, es gibt nicht 'die eine Technik' und schon garnicht für jeden.
HEMA kann immer nur eine Annäherung sein oder als Inspiration für modernes dienen.
@@OliverJanseps Ich glaube wir könnten viel Spaß miteinander haben. Aber Aachen ist ein Stück Richtung Westen :D
Sehen wir uns in München beim Gathering 24?
@@Narguhl dann müssen wir den Spaß verschieben.
Das Gathering bietet mir nicht die HEMA in dem ich unterwegs bin oder sagen wir ich habe für die Kurse so ziemlich nicht die passende Ausrüstung 😉
Das nächste große Event auf dem ich bin wird wohl die Tremonia Fechtschule sein. Aber Dortmund ist noch eine ganze Ecke weiter nördlich im Westen 🙃
schade, dass der kein deutsch kann ......:--/
Wie muss ich das den verstehen? 🤔
Just awful. You are giving up the very weapon that you are focussing on. Btw that is a jab.
@@glennhynes5263 it may an awful idea in most scenarios I agree, but always holding at your stick could also not be the best idea ever.
But I guess this explizit sequence were more for demonstration purpose.
And this is no jab, it's a lead punch. Old boxing of this time had no jab, it's an later invention in boxing.
😂
You're welcome 😁