22 Dramatic Sopranos attempt the "Hojotoho!" trills and high notes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2022
- *Correction: The first singer singing is Olive Fremstad not Lilian Nordica. Nordica’s recording is available here: • Die Walkure, Act II: H...
Part 6 of the "Dramatic sopranos sing..." series. Twenty-two dramatic sopranos attempt the trills and high notes in Brünnhilde's warcry (Die Walküre). Attempt used instead of sing for obvious reasons...
Featured Artists
Lilian Nordica
Johanna Gadski
Helene Wildbrunn
Getrud Kappel
Frida Leider
Kirsten Flagstad
Helen Traubel
Erna Schlüter
Marjorie Lawrence
Martha Mödl
Getrude Grob-Prandl
Astrid Varnay
Birgit Nilsson
Rita Hunter
Gwyneth Jones
Hildegard Behrens
Elizabeth Connell
Linda Watson
Deborah Voigt
Nina Stemme
Jennifer Wilson
Christine Goerke
Asides: Apologies for the delays in posting, I have been very busy lately. I also apologize if I missed anyone significant, this is a very frequently recorded piece so it was difficult to include everyone. The next big upload will be a part two of the "Huge moments" series.
Artists appear by their age not the year of recording, but for those curious here are the details I have:
1. Olive Fremstad (1906)
2. Johanna Gadski (1910)
3. Helene Wildbrunn (circa 1922)
4. Getrud Kappel (1924)
5. Frida Leider (1927)
6. Kirsten Flagstad (Furtwängler, 1950)
7. Helen Traubel (circa. 1940)
8. Erna Schlüter (Stuttgart, 1938)
9. Marjorie Lawrence (Bodanzky, 1937)
10. Martha Mödl ((Furtwängler, 1953)
11. Getrude Grob-Prandl (Klobučar, circa 1951)
12. Astrid Varnay (Keilberth, 1952)
13. Birgit Nilsson (Böhm, 1967)
14. Rita Hunter (Goodall, 1970)
15. Gwyneth Jones (Zagrosek, 1978)
16. Hildegard Behrens (Levine, 1990)
17. Elizabeth Connell (2010) [age 63]
18. Linda Watson (Dohmen, 2010)
19. Deborah Voigt (Levine, 2010)
20. Nina Stemme (Barenboim, 2010)
21. Jennifer Wilson (Mehta, 2008)
22. Christine Goerke (Jordan, 2018)
18. Linda Watson (Thielemann, 2010)
By far my favorite was Frida Leider. Especially for her amazing voice, accuracy, sheer weight of sound, and also that very real and TRUE trill!! (All of the others were either "faux-trills", or non-existent trills!)
I also find it interesting that the last of the great Brunnhildes was Nilsson! You can hear the rapid decline in vocal technique in the singers after her.
I am always grateful when Marjorie Lawrence is included in these compilations. She seems to be nearly forgotten today in spite of her brilliant career at the Paris Opera and at the Metropolitan, where she alternated the various Wagner roles with Flagstad. She deserves to be remembered for her voice, rather than for the fact that her operatic career was ended when she contracted polio. What a loss to the operatic world!
She sounded just like Eileen Farrell when they made a movie of her life, INTERRUPTED MELODY. She did return to the MET before Bing took over as Isolde and her voice was great. But discrimination against handicapped people limited further engagements which was tragic. I think paying audiences would have accepted the physical limitations as a trade off for the vocal opulence.
quite agree, love her records, like Palais radieux from Sigurd
@@johnpickford4222 Yes, the singing in the movie was dubbed by Eileen Farrell which was a great disappointment to Marjorie Lawrence who had expected to record the soundtrack herself. Farrell was great , but what a pity Hollywood didn't allow Lawrence to provide her own singing voice.
Astrid Varnay. What a voice.
Lots of fun costumes. Thanks for the compilation. ❤
Wilson was surprisingly good for a post 1980s Brunhilde. I had clicked on another video, before the new video loaded I listened to 5 seconds of her, and went back to see who the singer was.
It sounds so easy for Nilsson. And interestingly, she handles the octave drop for the final note better than most of the others, even though I thought she generally had too much head voice in her lower register. Which I thought would lead to it sounding flutey on the last lower note, but it sounds very full.
Brigit had a voice like a laser beam! 😊
Varnay and Nilsson.
How have I never heard of Frida Lieder? She's phenomenal!
She was terrific. While she's German, she went to Italy to study the bel-canto style of singing and sang all of her Wagner rep in Italian before going back to Germany and relearning them in German.
How HAVE you never heard of Frida Leider. She was the Wagnerian Soprano par Excellence of the 1920's and 30's she was the Favourite Brunnhilde of Melchior and Lorenz , who was also Highly acclaimed in Italian roles like Aida and Leonora ( Trovatore) also a great and I mean very great Lieder singer. I can tell you I saw many of these Soprano's includinfg Leider and Flagstad Grob Prandl and Nilsson at Covent Garden, Leider was the best, I am now 106 Years old and my memory is still fully functional, it is a pity they missed out Marta Fuchs a lady who always REFUSED to shake Hitlers Hand, Goebbels wanted her done away with.
I also heard Leider in Tristan with Melchior 1931 and 1932, also Fidelio 1934 and 1938 all at Covent garden, where my father sang as a leading Tenor in the Chorus from 1909 till 1940, he heard most of the early Soprano's in Wagner, including Fremstad ( not Nordica by the way) , Gadski came to London in 1919 for a Concert, Leider sang regularly at Covent Garden from 1924 till 1939, I saw her also in Rehearsals for Gotterdamrung with Rudolf Laubenthal.
My Father liked Gertrud Bindernagel in Die Walkure, she should be here also, the Modern singers are fake they have voices like Dragons without fire. 1990 on, I knew Gwyneth Jones very well, also Anne Evans and the Lovely Rita Hunter, I wrote for an Opera Magazine in the Fifties and Sixties Freelance, I managed to interview Flagstad who was a wonderful singer, with Svanholm in London Nilsson also, Melchior to my mind the Greatest of all wagnerian Tenors much preferred Lottie Lehmann and Frida Leider to all the Scandinavians whom he thought were rather COLD!
I do believe that Leider sang with Caruso in Berlin or Hamburg 1914. You will be pleased I am sure if you listen to her recordings.
Nos da oes gwelwch yn dda
@@robertevans8010 amazing story, 106 years old omg!! You must have amazing stories to tell
This is a role when a soprano is paid to get on her high horse and praised for it...
That trill by G Jones is out of this world
Agree, THE BEST
Most beautiful singing
Of the they, I think Frida Leider and Kirsten Flagstad are outstanding.
However, my ideal Brünnhilde would be Astrid Varnay,
whose commanding voice is worthy of a Valkyrie.
Of the current singers, I have the highest expectations for Lise Davidsen.
Condolences.
😁😁😁😁
Wow! These truly run the gamut from the sublime to the ridiculous. The first five all had great trills and I loved Leider's version best of the these five. Flagstad's is classic and she sounds incredible as always. I heard Rita Hunter do this role live and she is a great as I remember her being live.She has a finest trill of the singers from the the modern era. Nilsson's is number one in my opionion: always has been and always will be. She is fearless with the voice and range to make the battle cry truly terrifying and blood curdling. Of course she has power and stamina in great reserves. Jennifer Wilson sings some beautiful top Bs and Cs. There is lots and lots of comedy/camp in this upload and I love, love, loved listening to it.😆🤣😂
I sang this (far too young) with Christian Thielemann conducting. Also in Avignon with Edda Moser as Sieglinde. (Then had a baby and wanted to bring her up myself!)
I’m horrified by most of these, mainly due to the pitch problems. Freda Leider wins by a mile in accuracy. Of course recordings never represent sheer power, which, if missing, is a huge disappointment.
What a delight to hear all these side by side! I’ve subscribed and will enjoy wallowing in memories!
Frida Leider was the complete package. She and Max Lorenz were possibly the greatest Wagnerians ever.
Which shows you that both old and New Generations have dreadful as well as amazing exponents. The story repeats itself. I have experienced live some of the “good ones” of the new generation like Jones and Wilson that gave riveting shows as well as less known excellent ones like Luana DeVol, Catherine Foster etc. As I often say, comments in TH-cam are fine but just buy a ticket and go to real life performances! Support opera and enjoy it! It does pay off!!
Whoa Astrid sounded fantastic. I know nothing about music in terms of technique snd technical aspects. Just someone who recently found out I really enjoy this stuff. But by far i enjoyed Astrid and Kirsten's immensely
Just as I heard her in the theater, Goerke has some very eccentric ideas about pitch.
Of the Classic era sopranos, Frida Leider is the best, and she has by far the best and most torrential trill with an unmistakable brrrrrr. Some of the other singers I can't tell whether they're trying to trill or simply wobbling. Nilsson is fearless, but her utter inability to sing the written trills rules her out of the #1 spot. Flagstad is also epic, but she can't sing the trills either. I have heard that she could indeed trill, but I have yet to find an example. Hunter does well, and despite her wide vibrato, Jones does well too, and actually sings a trill. There is a recording with Jane Eaglen where she too does a very nice version with an excellent trill. Too bad she looked like a tea cozy.
Regarding Flagstad's trill. It is existent though probably not perfect e.g.,
In "Heil dir Sonne" th-cam.com/video/EqlthB9r7Tg/w-d-xo.html (Siegfried, 1949)
In "Ozean du Ungeheuer" th-cam.com/video/LGCEHo2ohvs/w-d-xo.html
@@dramaticsoprano5168 thanks! I had been looking for examples but hasn’t found any. I wonder why she didn’t sing the trills in Hojotoho.
Jones is outstanding.
Leider and Varnay by far the best IMO. Nilsson clearly the most amazing voice of any soprano (or any singe perhaps) ever, but a bit inhuman
Leider absolutely nails it. Jones sings an absolutely gorgeous trill but the wobbling is quite evident. Singers like Behrens, Goerke and Voigt etc just had no business attempting this role.
Lieder is fantastic. But I saw Behrens, Voigt, and Goerke sing this role in the theater - while they weren’t the last word in vocal refinement, I was thrilled by their performances anyway.
I have never understood why is Behrens considered to be a wagnerian soprano. Even Moser past her prime and with her illness had a bigger and more suitable voice for Wagner.
@@jiso5232 Perhaps your question should’ve been directed to Solti, Levine, Sawallich, Bernstein, and other top conductors who felt that Behrens was their choice to sing Wagner roles. But your question is fair enough - she is not a typical Wagner soprano. But I saw her in the theater many times, and thought that in voice/demeanor/phrasing, she brought more to the roles than someone who might’ve been able to sing louder.
Es estupido hablar de bamboleo cuando sos fan de Callas...
Behrens was thrilling live
Very interesting. With one exception the best trills come from the older generation of singers which must say something about their training. The exception is Rita Hunter who had a bel canto teacher in Edwin Francis and had Norma in her repertoire.
Leider a clear winner. Gadski does a good job here too. Modl really had no business doing anything except Sieglinde in the Ring Cycle.
Her Rome 53 ring is fabulous as Brunhilde, not to mention her roles like Gutrune and 3rd Norn. Her voice before 1954 was incredible
I do agree with you when it comes to Martha Mödl being more of a Sieglinde than a Brünnhilde.
@@operaanimelover369 Couldn't disagree with you more. Mödl's was so full of high energy drama, I think her Sieglinde woulda been a dud. Even her "Siegfried" Bruennhilde, a mostly lyrical role, is rather high strung overall.
@@hrh4961 I respect your view on Martha Mödl not being fit for Sieglinde and being more of a singing actress for Brünnhilde. I was more taken aback by the dark timbre and burnished steel in her voice that I have always loved Mödl as in terms of Sieglinde. However, I also enjoy that same chestiness and steel when she does all three Brünnhildes plus her Isolde, Venus, Kundry, Adriano, and Ortrud.
Lovely to have Rita Hunter included! Thank you for the video!
I agree. Hunter was a great soprano and a fine musician. One of my all time favorites. Her Abigaille is simply astounding!
I saw Rita Hunter as Brunnhilde at the Met. She was extraordinary. Tbh, I think there was a lot of prejudice because of her weight.
@@wotan10950 Agreed
The exponents I cherish the most are Helene Wildbrunn, Gertrud Kappel, Frida Leider, Erna Schlüter, Marjorie Lawrence, Martha Mödl, Gertrud Grob-Prandl, and Astrid Varnay. Don't think I would be foolhardy enough to leave out Lilian Nordica, Johanna Gadski, Kirsten Flagstad, Helen Traubel, Birgit Nilsson, Rita Hunter, and Gwyneth Jones because they are just as awesome, especially Birgit Nilsson, Rita Hunter, and Gwyneth Jones who go full throttle. I would have loved to have Ludmila Dvorakova and Nadezda Kniplova included on here, especially Kniplova because her Hojotoho is the definition of full-blooded and crazy exciting!
Thank you for all the comments! If you are interested in Kniplova, I believe I featured her in the Gotterdammerung and Siegfried videos. Sorry for forgetting to include her here...
Poor Elizabeth Connell forced to brandish a knife instead of a spear (or at least a sword) 😂
Varnay is my favourite.
The best of the best!
Симпатичный вагнеровский слет валькирий. На мой взгляд, на нем недостаёт одной из самых великих (и в том числе вагнеровских) певиц - Фелии Литвин, которая успела-таки записать этот номер.
Лучше всех выступила Фрида Ляйдер - незабываемое исполнение с отчаянно смелыми верхними нотами, острыми, как наконечник копья У М. Лоуренс эти ноты столь же смелы, но тембр уступает звонкой стали тембра Ляйдер. Именно эти ноты очень осторожно исполняет моя любимая Флагстад, и потому уступает неистовым коллегам. М. Мёдль и Р. Хантер исполняют валькирию в конце рабочего дня, когда она уже натаскалась погибших в бою героев. Не исключено, кстати, что в обоих случаях эта заслуга дирижёров - Фуртвенглера, тяготевшего к маэстозно-замедленным темпам, и его младшего коллеги, бравшего с него пример. Гроб-Прандль примечательна тем, что весь призыв поёт как вагнеровский вокализ, что довольно занятно. У Б. Нильссон, при всём блеске верхов, в этой компании особенно заметен, на мой взгляд, дефицит вокального "мяса", несколько компрометирующий её могучую героиню.
Спасибо очередному Клингзору, разбившему этот вагнеровский цветник.
As to me, the greatests are Birgit Nilsson, Gwyneth Jones & Linda Watson... not necessarily in that order !!! ❤❤❤❤❤❤
Well I have just subscribed. Absolutely thrilling to hear so many greats in one video singing the same thing. Thank you for this upload (and the work that I know went into making it!)
Thank you for the comment! I have quite a few videos in this kind of ‘Dramatic sopranos sing…’ series. Here is a playlist of all the ones I’ve made so far: th-cam.com/play/PLao4QnKiY-1qQ8EBYmhj64cTwpNGrVK-3.html
Plans for future uploads: Abigaile’s cabaletta (Nabucco), Kundry’s low A-flat (Parsifal) and Turandot in riddle scene climax.
@@dramaticsoprano5168 Having just started my own channel for Mum, believe me...I get the time that goes into it. Turandot huh? That would have to include Dimitrova (which blew my mind tbh). I remember watching the Verona performance where she is wearing the white dress and long black wig. She knocked my socks off frankly!
@@ritahunterlafavorita Dimitrova would be included, for sure. In fact, I've already featured that specific Verona performance on my channel before in a different 'series' (th-cam.com/video/0WL7-HRoAGA/w-d-xo.html). One of the best ever, I also love Nilsson and Grob-Prandl in the role of course.
And I'm honored that the daughter of the great Rita Hunter appreciates my channel! Good luck with your channel too. If I could make the tiniest request, could you please share any recordings you might have of your mum in Macbeth. Her Lady Macbeth recordings are very scarce online, and I was unfortunately unable to find any rendition of 'Or tutti sorgete' for my Macbeth video.
@@dramaticsoprano5168 Greetings. Well here I am adding to responses with a "tag your it" - It's going to be our thing I think :)
I just had a little look at what I have and I have and I have a Macbeth performance from Australia. I am listening now. Thankfully, the quality is decent enough.
I am continuing a "journey " down the Nile this coming week (Mother, Bergonzi, Orbraztsova & Manuguerra - The MET 1976). I can DEFINITELY make Macbeth the next thing. If you want to email me EXACTLY what you would like (I was thinking the start from when Lady Macbeth reads the letter, up to where Macbeth enters and also a Sleepwalking scene). Please feel completely free to email me if you need other stuff for your compilations. I am more than happy to help. I could easily make things available to only you with a private link so that you could download what you need but email me ANYtime.
I have also added you to my featured channels section. I hope that was ok. I have a few people that I follow and I wanted to feature them. We are all in this together and it's a common theme....preserving the legacies.
@@ritahunterlafavorita That's exactly what I was thinking, her 'Vieni t'affretta...Or tutti sorgete' definitely needs to be on TH-cam! But don't feel rushed to upload anything, or change any plans you had to rush out the Macbeth. I'm currently taking a short break from editing videos so I don't need any content immediately.
Thank you for featuring me! I'll let you know if I need anything directly. Before I make the Abigaille video, I'm going to be releasing a video on dynamics and agility in dramatic sopranos. Now that I think about it the sleepwalking scene in Macbeth might be a perfect addition.
I also had a peruse through your channel and you have a very beautiful voice yourself. Thank you for reaching out, it was very pleasant taking with you, speak to you soon :)
The older clips like Lilian Nordica, Johanna Gadski, Helene Wildbrunn, Getrud Kappel, Marjorie Lawrence are harder to judge considering the poor audio quality. From the ones I can judge, I can say that the best for me were Kirsten Flagstad and Astrid Varnay. Starting from Gwyneth Jones onward, you can clearly see the quality of dramatic soprano going down (Gwyneth, while I do think she has the weight of a dramatic soprano, often sounded pushed, and a bit sloppy and unrefined, with slight wobbles in her vibrato). Anyway, for me ,Kirsten had a large column of metallic sound that washed over the orchestra like a tidal wave. Her voice was also clear like stainless steel, similar to Birgit Nilsson, who had a smaller voice than Flagstad, but more penetrating higher notes, almost as if she concentrated all the intensity of her sound into a laser-beam that would slice through the orchestra. As for Varnay, she had a much more cavernous and darker sound, with more weight in her lower and middle voice, that would give her a wider vibrato that really enhanced the dramatic weight of her voice, almost reminscent of Callas. Varnay's higher notes weren't clear, free, and soaring as the stainless steel voices of Nilsson or Flagstad, but her color and weight were a lot darker and heavier, nevertheless. And, while she had perhaps one of the most beautiful timbres of all the Wagnerian sopranos, Martha Modl never really seemed like a true dramatic soprano to me. Maybe more of a heavier spinto soprano like Leonie Rysanek.
La classe della Grob-Prandl e naturalmente Frida Leider. Deludente la Flagstad, le ultime da dimenticare.
Gadski is underrated and up there with Leider. Except a much bigger voice!
It should be noted that the first singer here is Olive Fremstad and NOT Lillian Nordica. All of Nordica's commercial and live recordings of Hojotoho show eccentricities like coming in early and holding notes too long. Nordica's commercial Hojototo is sung with piano and the live recordings of her Hojotoho from 1903 (with orchestra) are poorly recorded and hard to hear. Fremstad however, did record Hojotoho commercially with orchestra and its Fremstad we hear here. Fremstad and Nordica's voices also sound quite different and anyone who knows their voices can identify them.
Oh wow, you are right, my apologies. I extracted the audio from here th-cam.com/video/CsoKbtgq8rU/w-d-xo.html
It seems TH-cam got confused at two singers being credited on the album and mislabeled it.
Also I assume this is the correct Nordica recording th-cam.com/video/d9QtLcd72hY/w-d-xo.html
@@dramaticsoprano5168 Yes that's Nordica. Beautiful voice but with an eccentric sense of rhythm..
Thank you very much! Please more of that, preferable: War es so schmählich (Brünnhild and Isolde are more than the high c!)
Dame Gwyneth Jones is First!
Ich denke, dass man hier zu keinem objektiven Ergebnis kommen kann, nur zu einem subjektiven. Denn die Geschmäcker sind nun einmal sehr verschieden.
Mir gefallen Mödl und Nilsson am besten, während ich den Hype um Leider und vor allem Jones nicht verstehen kann....
Leider by a light year.
Some of these ladies don't even bother attempting the trill.
The first few....i dunno. These were the major singers of their time. The limitations of the recordings is a factor of course but tastes have changed . For the better. "Modern" Wagner style seems to start ( in this collection) with Frida Leider. After that , we are in BUSINESS!
I don’t know who the worst singer here is
but I think she’s pretty good. I can’t imagine a more difficult piece of music to sing.
Leider! No wonderMelchior said she was the best of them all
Those last few were attempts definitely
6:50 Astrid Varnay
ce montage a surtout une vertu: nous faire bien comprendre la décrépitude du chant wagnérien depuis quelques années, les derniers exemples étant catastrophiques (Stemme, Watson et le summum de l'horreur étant atteint par Mme Goerke)!!
Bien dit, mon cher Bernard, je te reconnais bien là ! Et bonjour au passage.
@@pascalperret2728 j'espère que tu vas bien, au plaisir de nous voir un de ces jours si tu es toujours dans la région!
Sans aller vraiment bien, je ne vais pas trop mal pour mon âge... Toujours lyonnais, mes excursions à Nice se font très rares. Peut-être nous croiserons-nous un jour à l'Opéra de Lyon ou à Paris que je fréquente à l'occasion.
Erna schlüter is pretty intense. 😊
Different strengths. Not knowing this opera very well, I love the way Astrid Varnay sounds - her lower register sounds fully developed. I also replayed Frida Leider at the suggestion from other commentators and found that I enjoyed her voice too. It's quite difficult telling who was not good but there are a few that clearly stand out. How did Gwenyth Jones rank?
Varnay is the best of all, then Flagstad and Traubel.
Frida was nice. Unfortunately the earlier records were recorded during era with technology that only picked up 60-70% of total sound. Even modern opera singers who've recorded with old bell phone technology sound like old singers, i.e. phonic, register changes, etc are very noticeable with old recordings, no matter how well blended. I liked Lillian Nordica, sounded like it was recorded around 1900-1915?
If you mean the first recording in the video, it is from 1906. As for the one linked in the video description, I'm not certain.
Dans cette longue liste il manque Régine Crespin!
Wo waren denn Berit Lindholm, Catarina Ligendza und vor allem Ingrid Bjoner, drei große dramtische Sopranistinnen in der Nachfolge von Birgit Nilsson und noch vor Gwyneth Jones? Von allen dreien gäbe es großartige Aufnahmen. - Where were Berit Lindholm, Catarina Ligendza and especially Ingrid Bjoner, three great dramatic sopranos in the succession of Birgit Nilsson and even before Gwyneth Jones? There would be great recordings of all three.
Missing Edyth Walker (version with piano) - I think might be the best one!
Thank you very much! More of that, preferably "War es so schmälich" (Brünnhild Walküre is more than her hojotoho's)
Thank you for the comment.
Which part would you suggest from "War es so schmählich"? It is a pretty long scene.
@@dramaticsoprano5168 The begining, storting with these words...
Something else: when comparing it is maybe good to show0 what is written: de hligh c is written I think as a short cry, like Varnay did in 1952, and not as the longer sostenuto she sang (following up her colleague the enormous Nillson) in 1958 and I think 1960 Bayreuth.
@@dramaticsoprano5168 War es so schmählich, was ich verbrach,
daß mein Verbrechen so schmählich du
bestrafst?
War es so niedrig, was ich dir that,
daß du so tief mir Erniedrigung schaff'st?
War es so ehrlos, was ich beging,
daß mein Vergeh'n nun die Ehre mir raubt?
O sag': Vater! Sieh' mir in's Auge:
schweige den Zorn, zähme die Wuth,
und deute mir hell die dunkle Schuld,
die mit starrem Trotze dich zwingt,
zu verstoßen dein trautestes Kind.
Perhaps “Fort den Eile.” You can get a good idea of the singer’s quality in this short dialogue with Sieglinde.
The incredible decline in voices after Nilsson in this role is appalling. Most of the singers post-Nilsson are not dramatic sopranos,nor Wagnerian voices but only spintos attempting material far beyond their equipment. One can only hope that this generation of small voiced Brunnhildes may soon be replaced by one or two new real dramatic Wagnerian voices.,
in your abundance of all these middling anglo-american bombers , we really should hear Lubin, Crespin, Shuard, Ligendza, Bjoner and above them all: LIANE SYNEK! (to give birgit a fright)
Of the prewar recordings I would say I like Gertrud Kappel best. Of the postwar ones, I’m not exactly sure. I’m inclined to pick Flagstad, but Varnay and Nilsson were wonderful too.
3,4,5,14 and 22 seem to have the clearest, cleanly articulated trills. The others didn't seem to even attempt it. Helen Traubel and a couple others seemed to sing the scene at a lower pitch or key, is that possible 🤔
I can hear trills in 1 and 2 as well. They're a little hard to notice in the Gadski recording but I think it may be the effect of the gramophone. It is more clear in the vinyl transfer (th-cam.com/video/KzbXuwln9vA/w-d-xo.html), albeit everything else being worse quality.
Yes they’ve transposed it. Cheating!!!!
@@dawnsymespodic I don't think Traubel needed to transpose in 1940. It may be just a wrong speed of recording/playback.
The first 13 are clearly better than the rest.
14*
Varnay, always Varnay. In her prime she could beat anyone!
I wish Rudolph Bing felt that way. She might have had a longer career at the Met.
Gadski’s pitch is embarrassing. But it’s wonderfully reassuring to hear live performances when I always compared myself to polished and edited recordings!
Jones was the best Brunnhilde ever. EVER. Voice, stamina, power to burn, and she could ACT.
I never like liked Flagstad (🤷), and I adore Varnay and Nilsson, but Jones was just unbeatable for me.
Vogt should have hung up her shoes a long time ago. What that voice has become is a real shame. All over a little black dress.
Its Gwyneth Jones
You forgot the best - the Ukrainian soprano Solomiya Krushelnytska.
Weren't you saying that Getrude Grob-Prandl is the best wagnerian soprano ever?
@@gr__msk Give Krushelnytska a try. You won’t regret it. After all, it’s she who made Madama Butterfly successful, and she could trill!
she is amazing and very old school !!!@@ladivinafanatic
@@gr__msk Yeah, she did the trill in Mefistofele as well. To think that Krushelnytska was the first Salome in Italy, her voice must be pretty big; meanwhile a lot of lighter voiced sopranos after her could not trill.
There's a good reason they used to call this "The Shout!" A curious mix of live and recordings. Sort of unfair. Understood as there were no broadcasts until the 1930's. But why not Flagstad in the 1930's or early 40's, or her studio record around 1935 or so. Traubel always transposed it down a half tone.The newer girls are all overmatched. Anyway, now I have to find something to counteract the shaking.
I don't think Flagstad is in any worse condition here than in her early years. The B is a little effortful but still done well and very big, the trill is still a fast vibrato but IMO a little more convincing in this clip than in her early years where I wouldn't even call it fast.
Actually Flagstad's 1950 Ring is better than all earlier versions, except in the prologue where the 1937 is arguably better (because of the hight C) . She had much more control and did amazing things with her voice in the 1950 performance.
leider is the only one that sings it exactly as written
Lieder sang everything the way Wagner wrote it. So did Elizabeth Grummer. Have a listen to all of the “Elsa’s Dreams” on TH-cam. Only a handful of singers bother with the dotted notes and the march-like rhythms. Nearly everyone else ignores them, or simply smooths them out to make it sound more dreamy. But Wagner knew what he wanted, and Grummer and Lieder are the only ones who deliver the goods. Actually, Schwartzkopf does too.
@@wotan10950 Leider
1. It’s interesting how so many of the early ones actually slided up to the top. The head-on attack really was a Nilsson thing (not here though).
2. I understand the fascination with Leider’s trill, flexibility, and accuracy, but the immediate juxtaposition between her and Flagstad doesn’t do Leider many favours in terms of emission and sheer vocal scale. I think people would be underwhelmed by Leider if they were to hear her sing immediately after Flagstad live.
3. Kudos to Jennifer Wilson for singing this difficult music while being moved around in and by that thing.
@@judygarland7186 I don’t hear two notes in her trill?
true, I don't hear it either. I was just told by some people that she had a trill but I don't hear it@@ER1CwC
@@ER1CwC i think this old wagnerian dramatic soprano has a trill too apart from Leider (she isn't shown in this video and she does the hojotoho trill) : th-cam.com/video/U6Ms3_LBe-o/w-d-xo.html
Also Gadski (who is shown here might have a trill in general) : th-cam.com/video/7NKIU9wGvPY/w-d-xo.html
Also wagnerian dramatic soprano Astrid Varnay attempted trills although she doesn't do the hojotoho trills properly at all : th-cam.com/video/uC4vlii287E/w-d-xo.html&start=256
Also, is Helene's trill attempt at 1:37 an actual trill? or just a failed attempt?
@@judygarland7186 Thanks for these. I think most of them are technically trills, but they don’t accentuate the upper note enough. Joyce DiDonato explains in one of her masterclass videos (I think from Covent Garden) that the trill should accentuate the upper note, and that many people don’t do so. That’s why you get the pulsation of a trill, but the upper note seems missing, if that makes any sense. Krushelnytska’s is absolutely fantastic though (particularly the first one). A terrific performance overall as well. Thanks for introducing her to me!
@@judygarland7186 P.S. I would recommend not discussing Callas on the other channel. Lots of anti-Callas folks over there.
For me Brünnhilds (W and G) and Isolde need voices with fullnes between the stafs, maybe even former mezzos like Wildbrunn, Mödl, Petra Lang, Okke
vd Dammerau recently) and warmer voices than most real sopranos have (for example Traubel, Varnay).
Great stuff but you should have stopped after Gwyneth Jones. There are no more Brunnhildes and Die Walkure should not be staged anymore. :(
Gwyneth Jones THE BEST
I’ve seen my share of Brunnhilde’s in the theater. Nilsson, Hunter, Jones, Behrens, Schnaut, Marton, Gasteen, Voigt, Goerke. They ranged from good to thrilling. The only one, in my opinion, who was appalling was Schnaut. I wish you’d been able to include Anne Evans and Lisa Gasteen.
Very interesting, though I do wish Anja Silja had been included!
Why isn't Margaret Harshaw included in this list?
Where exactly is the trill supposed to be? I don't hear anyone doing any trill.
2:51 for example
Ah. I think I had misunderstood how a trill is supposed to sound. I get it now. Hm. To me, a trill, then, can give the impression of someone overdoing a vibrato out of nervous energy.
@@Bravilor Well a trill should be two distinguishable notes (either a tone or semitone depending on the key of the piece). Vibrato would be oscillations in pitch around note and should never be wide enough sound like a trill, that would definitely be a problem.
Deborah Voigt is not a dramatic soprano
Here she sounds like Renee Fleming
First up is not Nordica - sounds like Olive Fremstad.
It is Fremstad - see first line in description.
🤣😂
would have liked to hear callas in this
Elisabeth Connell 😆
She was 63 here for perspective, while the rest are mostly in there prime (Flagstad and Watson were also around mid 50s).
I heard her as Turandot in 2006 or 7. I thought she was quite good, but I was not as experienced of a listener then. I think her problem here is more that she rushes. I am amused though by how she scratches an itch on her face midway through.
Such a pity we don't have a recording of Callas' Walküre from 1949!!!
I think you might be disappointed.
@@davidjohnson9796 I'm not a fan of Callas, but I don't think it would be disappointing. Recordings of "fat Callas" are really interesting, she had a much firmer voice, better vibrato (not so wide, not so slow) and more power.
@@jiso5232 Actually I "love" Callas but not in everything. I think she is at her best in the bel canto repertoire. I don't feel her voice was ideal for the bigger Verdi roles and I prefer Tebaldi. But truth be told Callas's voice was in much greater control from about 1953-59 even if had trouble with high notes. She finally achieved (or approximately so) an even scale in her voice which was always "infamous" for its 3 voices (register breaks). What I meant in my comment is that so many Callas fans idealize her early period and think that her Tristan and Walkure would have been terrific when in reality I opine that it would have been interesting but not fabulous. What would be my "dream find" of all time would be Ponselle's Norma but so far this has eluded us all. I firmly believe that if this was ever found, even in bad condition, it would prove her the greatest of all Normas, including Callas.
@@davidjohnson9796 My problem with Callas is mainly in her vibrato. When she lost weight, it became wider and slower, so I hear the undulation of the pitch more prominently than the center of the pitch. So to my ears it sounds like she's 90 % of the time off pitch. I don't mind the register breaks (I don't have a problem even with Tetrazzini and Boninsegna, who are known for their 5 voices). But the vibrato is disturbing to me, and her feel of rhythm isn't compatible with mine. But as I said, the old recordings of Callas sound really much(!) better to me.
Love or hate Callas, you have to admit her trill was most likely incredible and exactly as written.
Flagstad, Wilson and Goerke were my favorites....Varnay, Behrens and Voight were also standouts!
1) Only scandinavian soprans should be allowed to be a Valkyrie. 2) It’s not alone about strength; some voices are plain ugly.
Most voices are just horrible......