Using a train interrupt that checks if an outpost is not full will let your train remain at the station and readable to prevent that hiccup when changing the outpost shopping list.
@InferAGoodTime Thanks to Space Age, that's how I supply my outposts now and I don't think I've had a hiccup yet. I did use train limits instead of enable/disable though, so you might have to change that.
@@vladdeklitrez disable-enable works the same as putting train limit to zero. The only thing about conditions of full/not-full is that they are at least visually bugged in the interface and condition color tells shit, but despite that it works for not sending a train and make it sit on the loading station, available for reconfiguration, until a next station is avaiable.
> Half the reason I play the game isn't to min-max my production but more to just find new and interesting ways to do things that are unnecessary and already solved. So very well said. This speaks to how powerful of a *toy* Factorio is, and is most of the reason that I'm still playing the game.
At the drop off, you can read train contents and prevent anything not in the train from being passed to the inserter filters, this fixes the issue with only ammo being unloaded at first.
14:35 I was wondering about that during the backwards trains vid, and knowing the answer now is indeed heartbreaking. It looks so bad, but knowing it's equivalent makes it hard to argue against.
@@Skellitor301_VA Counterargument: The other way is funnier. (Obviously, I agree that it looks better, but lacking more than aesthetic arguments makes them much less rhetorically effective)
Having the select combinator pick the single most in demand item means if that item can’t be supplied (maybe its production is broken), the train just goes back and forth supplying nothing. To fix this, try having the select combinator pick a random in-demand item. Related problem, if an item can’t be supplied, the train goes back and forth to the nearest station, and other stations get ignored. To fix this, have each station set its priority based on how long it’s been waiting. That way the train visits each in turn. Final thought, this can be extended to multiple wagons by having one supply group for the first wagon, another for the second, etc. But for taking extra items out, since you can only read the whole train contents and not individual wagons, combine the supply groups and subtract the whole train contents and remove that from all wagons.
I read the train contents, turn all the signals to one, and then multiply those by the demand at the unload station to make sure the inserters are only picking up things that are in the train. I still have the problem of the station going "I need more items!" and getting a train which could still not have the item needed.
9:33 You can reduce the arthimatic combinator and the selector combinator to just a decider combinator that has each > 0 for the condition and each at input count and S at input count for the outputs. Also you technically shouldn't need the extra decider combinator after the constant combinator to sanitize the input as you will only get negative inputs if extra items make their way into the train which wont really be a problem anyway if the selector combinator is set to sort descending. One last thing, I found that if you are using a legendary bulk inserter you need to read the hand contents of it and feed it into the first *-1 arthimatic combinator otherwise the inserter is too faster than the combinators can process.
I had no idea Radars can send signals wirelessly. Even if the combinator stuff in this vid goes over my head (it's very cool though!), that one tidbit just made my QoL in Factorio so much better
My solution to loading my supply trains was to have 11 bulk inserters, each inserting 2-4 different items. They were all set to 'Read hand contents (hold)', and wired into a circuit which would identify any signal which remained active for more than X ticks continuously, where X was the number of ticks a bulk inserter takes to transfer a load. Any signals identified by said circuit were sent to the 12 inserter, which would _remove_ that amount of the item in question from the train, thus making room for the other inserter to drop its remaining items and get back to work. I took care in how the items were divided between inserters. Things needed in bulk, like belts, got dedicated inserters, and when multiple items were on the same inserter I tried to make sure they were not correlated. (E.g. I'd make sure heat pipes, heat exchangers, and steam turbines were all on separate inserters, since a train that comes home needing to refill one of those is likely to need to refill the others, too.) Unloading was pretty much the same as your design, except: - Large-volume items like belts got dedicated inserters, while everything else got one inserter per train car - Rather than reading the contents of the unload chest, I read the contents of logistics network. This meant that items would be removed from the count as soon as a bot decided to come take them, rather than only once the bot actually arrived and collected the item from the chest, allowing more items to be unloaded immediately - With the exception of defenses (walls, turrets, repair packs, power poles, etc.), everything was set to a buffer of just 1 (or 4, for items bots can carry more than one of at once). Idea is, you place some ghosts, and the one item in the buffer gets used, causing the train to be summoned. Then, once it arrives, it unloads as many items as are actually needed for the build, plus one, and leaves.
"That's how I do balancers don't worry about it" Mood. My friend always makes comment on mine. I run 5 tracks or so, and just split them down to the bottom most track and always pull off that bottom most, and re-split down to the bottom after each use to condense it back down 😅
There's a system I devised for multiplexing signals years ago - I used it as a weak alternative to the new constant groups in 2.0 along with some other stuff. I used the standard "wires on the electric poles throughout the base" method but it also works with radars in 2.0. You need: 1. A control signal indicating the message type. For example, C=201 might mean "Update supply train". 2. A receiver station with a memory cell (use a constant combinator with C=-201) 3. Something that sends out the signals every so often. Using this, you can use the radar wires for hundreds of different things.
This is a great video, and amazing concept and solution! Something I have tried solving, but gave up un is a single assembler automall where it can also handle ingredient chains. The reason for this would be space, as you can save a lot of rocket launches when intially going to new planets simply by early on sending up another platform, then making belts, assemblers, inserters etc in space, using iron from space. (Circuits and copper supplied from Nauvis ofc). This would happen while doing the early space science researches, and could even be going on to set up more ships for future planets. Looking at how much larger a ship you want for Aquilo, if that was started early enough, and you get the advanced asteroid recepies early on, you can likely reduce launch counts a lot...
A few months ago i spent an entire weekend building an "all in one" loading and unloading station for a personal expansion train. It was something like a 4-12 train, it had about 30 different items in it. Some in very high quantities (like walls and turrets). The station had 6 bulk inserters for loading and 6 for unloading per wagon, and it adjusted the stack size when delivering the last items of the groceries list. I could go someplace, build the entire station from my inventory, then build an entire mining outpost in one go. It worked fine but it felt like a complete over-engineered solution for a problem that didn't really exist. I might rework it soon when i finish most of space age's content and go back to Nauvis.
Also what made me stop working on the design is that there is no way of tracking "missing" objects in a particular logistic network. You can track chest requests, but not the ghosts you place from the remote view. My intentions with this station was to avoid having robots flying long distances. Like if i wanted to print a giant solar panel very far away, i wanted my train network to notice in which logistics network there were missing objects and send a train there to fulfill the request. Sadly you also need to input the number of items requested in a constant combinator at that station for this to work. It felt like more maintenance than to just do it with a giant grid of roboports and wait for the robots to fly.
Wish there was a way to read ghosts. This way you can drop this station with a chest and roboport, and just build anything you want and it will be automatically supplied by trains until everything is finished. Then all you have to do is to build rails with spidertrons and drop the station itself. A true endgame of automation.
Yeah, I really wish that was there, too. We can read logistic requests... why not construction requests? 😭 (I'm pretty sure there are mods that give this, but... yeah, I want it in the base game.)
you can create logistics groups with everything in a blueprint just by clicking the blueprint on the”add logistics groups” button. if you have stuff already placed, the deconstruction planner has an option to remove ghosts -> 1) build all your stuff. 2) deconstruction planner blacklist ghosts, so everything that is already placed is removed temporarily. 3) create a blueprint of everything. 4) ctrl+z to undo deconstruction. 5) make a new logistics group with the blueprint.
I use a simplified version of this for my defensive outposts. Similar in concept, with a shopping list in a constant combinator hooked up with some math to a provider chest to set the inserter filter and the train departure. To fix the issue of trains getting stuck if items are taken from the chest too quickly i just added an inactivity timer to the train schedule, so if it doesn't have what the filter wants it goes away.
Nice video, it is going to take a bit for it to sink in for me. I have a simple design for reloading a outpost supply car that uses circuitry I like to share, There are four requester chests ( Ammo repair packs, walls and mines) and obviously four bulk inserters. The intersters are linked to the train station that send out an inventory readout and the inserters are set that they will load the car if the item readout is below the specified amount. One benefit I have realized after watching this video is that it does prevent "jamming" since the inserter will drop everything it is holding into car. On mine I have the item requirement set to %150 of a stack to have a buffer amount so I am not worried about inventory.
A bit unrelated, but I want to mention that having a artillery car or artillery on the outpost can make extra or complicated fortifications unnecessary since it will expand your safe zone and significantly reduce biter attacks. When "taking over" an area, the waves will come sequentially rather than one full scale attack, a spidertron MRLS does help alot! I do not mean skimping out defenses, I have turret nests surrounded by two layers of walls and mines to soften up the biters surrounding the outposts.
A trick for comparing 2 lists. instead of multiplying by -1 you can have each (red) - each (green) = each (red) to easily remove the green signal from the red signal in a single combinator
If I'm not mistaken, older versions of Space Exploration signal transmitters worked the way radars do now-only having the single channel. One thing that I did to great effect was to use signal multiplexing to determine which cannons to activate. You may be able to achieve something similar with individual items and bit-shifting values around to carry multiple signals in one.
It's a known that Factorio circuits are Turing complete, so if you can get a signal out of something, get a signal to something, and figure out the math to make them be what you want, you can map any signal or combination of signals to anything else. That doesn't mean it's necessarily easy, though. Good idea for the personal logistics trains; I genuinely wouldn't have thought of that, especially the automatically automating outstanding requests on the network.
I spent around 12 hours total building and debugging one of those in my first SA attempt. Once it was running, I realized that this was easiely can be solwed by just spaming roboports everywhere, putting another one 1GW nuclear reactor setup and joining the club of "pro gamers" whose saves lagging because of thousands of bots flying around carrying freaking belts and pipes. At least I can pat myself on the back for spending those 12 hours designing something that infinite times more efficient than waiting those 12 hours for the army of bots to be built.
you could use the read logistic requests from the roboport, and compare it to available items to get any missing items (and / or include a small buffer with a constant combinator) to automate all items at once. But you kinda have to work around trains not nessesarly being full. but you get "self completing" bases once you build the initial station.
When setting up the stack size, what i did in a similar situation, is the guy who sets stack sizes also passes the filter. I set up a decider that when any signal is greater than 0 outputs any signal input count and also S input count. Will prevent any desync issues.
You can technically use a wagon to store the items you just need a fictional train as well that is stopped at a fictional train station and the fictional train station should be set to read train contents. That's how i did my first Kovarex design
I made a fully automated supply train with a single supply spot capable of putting up to 40 different item types via 12 stack inserters running at max speed without risks of clicking. There were just like 3 combinators per inserter :D
I didn‘t figure out the logistic group in constant combinator thing so its more hardcoded but that is basically how I supply my Gleba outpost (arty outposts to keep the crawlers at bay). My first solution however was just a very fast Spidotron that was following the train and could build stuff and it provides a similar effect. I eventually had to change it because using Spidotrons forces your arty train to wait in station until a possible retaliatory attack has occurred which really limits its effectiveness.
You missed one thing... 19:22 - "press the button"... yeah, hook up some gates on a wire to output that B signal, instead of the constant combinator, then just walk up to it, and things will happen. (Granted, it'll take a bit for the train to load and come too you, but you can just be chilling looking at unrelated stuff in map view while you wait.)
As someone with 11 hours in the game, I feel like I just opened pandora's box lmao. I had no idea the machines are that customizable--sounds a lot like setting up an automated farm in Minecraft. Satisfactory's train system (which I'm still struggling with for things like inclines/elevation changes) is a lot more barebones by comparison, so this is gonna take me weeks to learn lol
@ I did get to oil refining, but I struggle with logistics. I just don’t want to spend 80hrs (as long as it took me to automate electricity in my first Satisfactory play) building a train set-up that will just need to get torn down immediately
I'm designing a supply station for the Aquilo base to have all the necessary materials on hand for any factory I could want to make. You can imagine that heat mechanic makes those designs really scuffed.
With 1 logistic bot, you could always have bots be dropped off into logistic chests and then use a requester chest for bots being put into a roboport. Less crap going on at the station.
10:37 This can be solved by an Interrupt condition of "If Train [Has no Path or Target Station Full] then [Go To: (pickup station) and (Wait until has been idle for 5 seconds)]"
6:04 That's not the minimum space possible. The 4 stations on the right load the speed modules through iron ore multiple times. And you aren't using the space to the bottom of them. The actual minimum solution consists of 4 stations, spaced every 6 squares (4 square gap in between them) and chests in all spots to the rear of the second-to-frontmost station, until you've reached 40 chests. That fits into 30 squares instead of 34. In both designs you do have to be careful to load anything that can be burned as train fuel from only the very rear-most inserters (unless you don't care about it potentially blocking train fuel slots). 6:07 That's the design that's actually smallest.
I expand my base for the hell of it and have 100s of millions of untouched resources within my walls. It will probably remain untouched because it’s not legendary, and it’s hard to make legendary, but asteroids aren’t.
It is possible to load more different items into a train by using a circuit network that sets inserter filters to only allow any given item to be transferred if there is more than handful of that item missing from the train Hell, if you wanna get fancy and mind having 11 items less in the train that its maximum you can set the stack size dynamically so it’ll only grab as many items as needed, but then you need to set up a combinator per item you want to put in it Edit: ah I was thinking of a much simpler solution than what you ended up making, but uuhh… yeah that works too
The amount of circutry at work here makes my head spin, but at least I see trains, and I like trains. Edit; Basically I need this explained to me like I'm 7. I would make use of this if only I understood every part of how it works, so I can make my own. I don't yet understand it, so. Old-fashioned designs is my way.
"It's ok to admit you've never used active providers" Speak for yourself XD Active providers are my third most used logistic box right after requesters and logistic storage. I basically use logistic storage boxes primarily as part of the outputs of any production I have with the chest's filter set to the items that the production is making. I also use a lot of bot mall logistics and will also disable the crafters, inserters, and the requester chest supplying it if the item reaches a certain threshold in the logistic system. That way I can ensure a minimal stock and anything that is picked up and put in the logistic storage like from trains or bot building, the bots will automatically organize the items into the output chests of production. That way I don't have to worry about having a massive logistic storage dump with 300 yellow chests just taking the excess, it goes back to the production output to be reused. Requesters as I mentioned I not only use as a big part of production, but I also have disable if enough of the item it is making is made, so I don't have an excessive amount of items sitting in requester chests not being used. I also make sure requesters also are allowed to pull from buffers cause I use buffers more than I do passives. Which is exactly for what they're used for, honestly. The disabling of inserters and the crafters are a measure to save power and resources. Plus, when the need to make more does come up, it has a small buffer of items to make what is needed upon activation. As for active providers, I use them mainly in trains, my bot based kovarex processing module that only uses what is needed to start the process and exporting excess to other modules or parts of the factory that it's needed, Gleba cause if things aren't used they rot, and generally parts of the factory where I don't want things to stockpile. My stockpile is essentially where the production happens, cause I like that kind of efficiency :P I'd say the least used logistic chest I use is the passive provider. It's nice to have on occasion, but it has a niche use in my builds cause the logistic storage can fulfill the needs a passive provider does, and I can filter it. Passive providers generally are unique stockpile spots that have multiple items like dump chests like if I have an assembler that has dynamic recipes set up and I need a spot to pull excess items when the recipe changes. That way the resources are available if needed elsewhere, so long as the recipe doesn't need them, then an inserter will just pull them back in. They're good for storing items and keeping them available while also not letting bots drop items into the storage. An out only box but the items are available when no others are since logistic storages have a higher priority than passives. But ye, logistic storage chests of all 5 kinds in general have gotten such a nice boost in 2.0, they make bot malls so much better :D
Ive got a very similar system but with 6 inserters per cargo wagon and you can have your train n cargo wagons long so it has just more throughput. One limitation that is bugging me is that you cant automatically request missing items for building ghosts so the sky isnt exactly the only limit. But you can use the blueprint contents to const combinator feature as you mentioned to alleviate some pain
I really thought I'd found the magic bullet with the "read logistics requests" until I realized it was ONLY personal logistics. But hey, maybe construction requests will be added to roboport circuits at a later date.
@InferAGoodTime when he Friday facts post that introduced the read logistic requests came out I was so hyped for about 2 seconds until I read the next line that said ghosts weren't included and I had concluded like month prior that without this feature automated ghost building requests were impossible without a buffer of every item at every supply station :(
You can do a sorta reverse supply train too, so when it's done building you can clear the logistic group of the blueprint, then a trash train comes to pick up any leftover junk and take it back to your base. I built all of this before the selector combinators and logistic groups though. Been meaning to update my logistic train system using the new stuff so I don't have to go around manually updating my constant combinators anymore, haha. And cut my combinator count down. I have way too many combinators driving my fancy logistic trains ha.
I can live with one blueprint with a lot of the wire magic boxes saying that if something is less than required then bring the train and it will unload as much as specific box can fit. i don't understand circuits at all, i'm too stupid for that.
Programming at it's root tends to focus around "If X then Y" so you can consider a combinator's input it's "If" and it's output it's "then". Each is a special signal command in many machines that treats each individual signal icon individually and then feeds them through. An "If Each > 0 Then Each" condition means that a decider will consider all signals fed to it, discard all that are below zero, and then send anything that is left through.
What does the radar do? Did I miss it? edit: apparently it doesnt have a UI and isnt configuragle, but always shares the same circuit network with all other radars in the planet...added in space age
Wait a second, so it is possible to use my personal inventory as a request for my train stations and trains, and then have them dump that into a buffer chest? That is pretty cool. So I can do the same in general, and just buffer up far away outposts for possible future expansions. Of course this would have to be very far away before it is necessary. But I have already run to the end of the game twice. And I hate how big my games become. Totally unplayable. 😅 But it is really cool.
I'm trying to follow along and I cant. you are going too fast and even rewatching a number of times you are still going too fast. I am literally stopping at every point to try and copy what you are doing. Example 9:09 you have ONE selector combinator then you say to add an arithmetic combinator and the next thing I see is that you have TWO selector combinator, an arithmetic combinator and I have no idea what you just did. Do you have a link to a blueprint that I can use to look at as you are rushing off?
That's the "lab", if you create a new game, there are multiple scenarios, loading in sandbox and then using the editor to build stuff & clear the terrain allows you to test builds in a nice environement.
Why i watch this? I need to stop play factorio x.x I already have 20 games on my list of "I need to play" Factorio is the worst enemy of my list I already waste 10 hour build a automatic assembly that will make all quality of item that u want just change the combinator to set the quality and amount of itens (The thing have 20+ combinator), i dont need another section of my trying to build another abomination.
8:30
You can just multiply it in the "change logistics group" window. Look just to the right of the field where you input the name.
My god you're right.
Ye, found that out early and that changed the game after it already changed the game :D
God damn it I saw this at the start and then forgot it. This would have been very useful.
@@InferAGoodTime It can also be negative number.
I came here to say this.
Using a train interrupt that checks if an outpost is not full will let your train remain at the station and readable to prevent that hiccup when changing the outpost shopping list.
Hot damn, that sounds like it would actually work. Would simplify the circuitry on the personal logistics train too.
@InferAGoodTime Thanks to Space Age, that's how I supply my outposts now and I don't think I've had a hiccup yet. I did use train limits instead of enable/disable though, so you might have to change that.
@@vladdeklitrez disable-enable works the same as putting train limit to zero. The only thing about conditions of full/not-full is that they are at least visually bugged in the interface and condition color tells shit, but despite that it works for not sending a train and make it sit on the loading station, available for reconfiguration, until a next station is avaiable.
Thought that this would be a 100K+ sub channel. Mythical algorithm pull.
it's on the way there
> Half the reason I play the game isn't to min-max my production but more to just find new and interesting ways to do things that are unnecessary and already solved.
So very well said. This speaks to how powerful of a *toy* Factorio is, and is most of the reason that I'm still playing the game.
Giant, map-covering logistics network. The true answer. (Great video!)
wow, it is, and it's faster than bots
Shocked me out of my post Christmas coma with the information that you can send signals over radar, what the hell
Yeah its new and truly amazing
At the drop off, you can read train contents and prevent anything not in the train from being passed to the inserter filters, this fixes the issue with only ammo being unloaded at first.
Thank you for the cursed designs, you saved me from over eating desert.
nice closing arguement.
14:35 I was wondering about that during the backwards trains vid, and knowing the answer now is indeed heartbreaking. It looks so bad, but knowing it's equivalent makes it hard to argue against.
I mean, I can make a decent argument: it looks dumb XD
But that's fun to know that factorio doesn't care which is funny
@@Skellitor301_VA Counterargument: The other way is funnier.
(Obviously, I agree that it looks better, but lacking more than aesthetic arguments makes them much less rhetorically effective)
I bearly understand any of this but god i love seeing people make cursed and optimized stuff in this game.
Enjoying the videos as of late.
My problem is that I am trying to understand it because I'm looking for a better solution to me outpost resupply problem.
Having the select combinator pick the single most in demand item means if that item can’t be supplied (maybe its production is broken), the train just goes back and forth supplying nothing. To fix this, try having the select combinator pick a random in-demand item.
Related problem, if an item can’t be supplied, the train goes back and forth to the nearest station, and other stations get ignored. To fix this, have each station set its priority based on how long it’s been waiting. That way the train visits each in turn.
Final thought, this can be extended to multiple wagons by having one supply group for the first wagon, another for the second, etc. But for taking extra items out, since you can only read the whole train contents and not individual wagons, combine the supply groups and subtract the whole train contents and remove that from all wagons.
I read the train contents, turn all the signals to one, and then multiply those by the demand at the unload station to make sure the inserters are only picking up things that are in the train. I still have the problem of the station going "I need more items!" and getting a train which could still not have the item needed.
9:33 You can reduce the arthimatic combinator and the selector combinator to just a decider combinator that has each > 0 for the condition and each at input count and S at input count for the outputs.
Also you technically shouldn't need the extra decider combinator after the constant combinator to sanitize the input as you will only get negative inputs if extra items make their way into the train which wont really be a problem anyway if the selector combinator is set to sort descending.
One last thing, I found that if you are using a legendary bulk inserter you need to read the hand contents of it and feed it into the first *-1 arthimatic combinator otherwise the inserter is too faster than the combinators can process.
I had no idea Radars can send signals wirelessly. Even if the combinator stuff in this vid goes over my head (it's very cool though!), that one tidbit just made my QoL in Factorio so much better
My solution to loading my supply trains was to have 11 bulk inserters, each inserting 2-4 different items. They were all set to 'Read hand contents (hold)', and wired into a circuit which would identify any signal which remained active for more than X ticks continuously, where X was the number of ticks a bulk inserter takes to transfer a load. Any signals identified by said circuit were sent to the 12 inserter, which would _remove_ that amount of the item in question from the train, thus making room for the other inserter to drop its remaining items and get back to work.
I took care in how the items were divided between inserters. Things needed in bulk, like belts, got dedicated inserters, and when multiple items were on the same inserter I tried to make sure they were not correlated. (E.g. I'd make sure heat pipes, heat exchangers, and steam turbines were all on separate inserters, since a train that comes home needing to refill one of those is likely to need to refill the others, too.)
Unloading was pretty much the same as your design, except:
- Large-volume items like belts got dedicated inserters, while everything else got one inserter per train car
- Rather than reading the contents of the unload chest, I read the contents of logistics network. This meant that items would be removed from the count as soon as a bot decided to come take them, rather than only once the bot actually arrived and collected the item from the chest, allowing more items to be unloaded immediately
- With the exception of defenses (walls, turrets, repair packs, power poles, etc.), everything was set to a buffer of just 1 (or 4, for items bots can carry more than one of at once). Idea is, you place some ghosts, and the one item in the buffer gets used, causing the train to be summoned. Then, once it arrives, it unloads as many items as are actually needed for the build, plus one, and leaves.
"That's how I do balancers don't worry about it" Mood. My friend always makes comment on mine. I run 5 tracks or so, and just split them down to the bottom most track and always pull off that bottom most, and re-split down to the bottom after each use to condense it back down 😅
Your designs will irreparably alter my Nullius 2.0 playthrough and I cannot wait
There's a system I devised for multiplexing signals years ago - I used it as a weak alternative to the new constant groups in 2.0 along with some other stuff. I used the standard "wires on the electric poles throughout the base" method but it also works with radars in 2.0. You need:
1. A control signal indicating the message type. For example, C=201 might mean "Update supply train".
2. A receiver station with a memory cell (use a constant combinator with C=-201)
3. Something that sends out the signals every so often.
Using this, you can use the radar wires for hundreds of different things.
I figured this out on my own a couple weeks ago to defend my nauvis perimeter and this tutorial woulda saved me a some sleepless nights
This is a great video, and amazing concept and solution!
Something I have tried solving, but gave up un is a single assembler automall where it can also handle ingredient chains. The reason for this would be space, as you can save a lot of rocket launches when intially going to new planets simply by early on sending up another platform, then making belts, assemblers, inserters etc in space, using iron from space. (Circuits and copper supplied from Nauvis ofc). This would happen while doing the early space science researches, and could even be going on to set up more ships for future planets. Looking at how much larger a ship you want for Aquilo, if that was started early enough, and you get the advanced asteroid recepies early on, you can likely reduce launch counts a lot...
A few months ago i spent an entire weekend building an "all in one" loading and unloading station for a personal expansion train. It was something like a 4-12 train, it had about 30 different items in it. Some in very high quantities (like walls and turrets). The station had 6 bulk inserters for loading and 6 for unloading per wagon, and it adjusted the stack size when delivering the last items of the groceries list. I could go someplace, build the entire station from my inventory, then build an entire mining outpost in one go. It worked fine but it felt like a complete over-engineered solution for a problem that didn't really exist.
I might rework it soon when i finish most of space age's content and go back to Nauvis.
Also what made me stop working on the design is that there is no way of tracking "missing" objects in a particular logistic network. You can track chest requests, but not the ghosts you place from the remote view. My intentions with this station was to avoid having robots flying long distances. Like if i wanted to print a giant solar panel very far away, i wanted my train network to notice in which logistics network there were missing objects and send a train there to fulfill the request. Sadly you also need to input the number of items requested in a constant combinator at that station for this to work. It felt like more maintenance than to just do it with a giant grid of roboports and wait for the robots to fly.
Wish there was a way to read ghosts. This way you can drop this station with a chest and roboport, and just build anything you want and it will be automatically supplied by trains until everything is finished. Then all you have to do is to build rails with spidertrons and drop the station itself. A true endgame of automation.
Yeah, I really wish that was there, too. We can read logistic requests... why not construction requests? 😭
(I'm pretty sure there are mods that give this, but... yeah, I want it in the base game.)
you can create logistics groups with everything in a blueprint just by clicking the blueprint on the”add logistics groups” button.
if you have stuff already placed, the deconstruction planner has an option to remove ghosts -> 1) build all your stuff. 2) deconstruction planner blacklist ghosts, so everything that is already placed is removed temporarily. 3) create a blueprint of everything. 4) ctrl+z to undo deconstruction. 5) make a new logistics group with the blueprint.
@ oooh. The first half of that I think was shown in the video. The second half is a brilliant addition, though!
Yeah, but then you wouldn't have the satisfaction of building a functional circuit network XP
I use a simplified version of this for my defensive outposts. Similar in concept, with a shopping list in a constant combinator hooked up with some math to a provider chest to set the inserter filter and the train departure. To fix the issue of trains getting stuck if items are taken from the chest too quickly i just added an inactivity timer to the train schedule, so if it doesn't have what the filter wants it goes away.
Nice video, it is going to take a bit for it to sink in for me. I have a simple design for reloading a outpost supply car that uses circuitry I like to share, There are four requester chests ( Ammo repair packs, walls and mines) and obviously four bulk inserters. The intersters are linked to the train station that send out an inventory readout and the inserters are set that they will load the car if the item readout is below the specified amount.
One benefit I have realized after watching this video is that it does prevent "jamming" since the inserter will drop everything it is holding into car. On mine I have the item requirement set to %150 of a stack to have a buffer amount so I am not worried about inventory.
A bit unrelated, but I want to mention that having a artillery car or artillery on the outpost can make extra or complicated fortifications unnecessary since it will expand your safe zone and significantly reduce biter attacks. When "taking over" an area, the waves will come sequentially rather than one full scale attack, a spidertron MRLS does help alot! I do not mean skimping out defenses, I have turret nests surrounded by two layers of walls and mines to soften up the biters surrounding the outposts.
A trick for comparing 2 lists. instead of multiplying by -1 you can have each (red) - each (green) = each (red) to easily remove the green signal from the red signal in a single combinator
If I'm not mistaken, older versions of Space Exploration signal transmitters worked the way radars do now-only having the single channel. One thing that I did to great effect was to use signal multiplexing to determine which cannons to activate. You may be able to achieve something similar with individual items and bit-shifting values around to carry multiple signals in one.
It's a known that Factorio circuits are Turing complete, so if you can get a signal out of something, get a signal to something, and figure out the math to make them be what you want, you can map any signal or combination of signals to anything else. That doesn't mean it's necessarily easy, though.
Good idea for the personal logistics trains; I genuinely wouldn't have thought of that, especially the automatically automating outstanding requests on the network.
I had a similar idea in mind but wasn't smart enough to implement it, thanks for all the detailed info, the comments have good info as well
I spent around 12 hours total building and debugging one of those in my first SA attempt. Once it was running, I realized that this was easiely can be solwed by just spaming roboports everywhere, putting another one 1GW nuclear reactor setup and joining the club of "pro gamers" whose saves lagging because of thousands of bots flying around carrying freaking belts and pipes. At least I can pat myself on the back for spending those 12 hours designing something that infinite times more efficient than waiting those 12 hours for the army of bots to be built.
you could use the read logistic requests from the roboport, and compare it to available items to get any missing items (and / or include a small buffer with a constant combinator) to automate all items at once. But you kinda have to work around trains not nessesarly being full. but you get "self completing" bases once you build the initial station.
Mooooooom! He's doing it again!
you made me actually use combinators after 1,1k hours of playing factorio
When setting up the stack size, what i did in a similar situation, is the guy who sets stack sizes also passes the filter. I set up a decider that when any signal is greater than 0 outputs any signal input count and also S input count. Will prevent any desync issues.
Can work with each and everything too i guess since were only feeding it one signal from the selector
the fucking cargo wagon buffer chest forbidden knowledge truly is just revolutionizing factorio isn't it
New banger from the Goat
You can technically use a wagon to store the items you just need a fictional train as well that is stopped at a fictional train station and the fictional train station should be set to read train contents. That's how i did my first Kovarex design
8:39 cant the amount also be modified by changing the multiplier of the group? Or does that only work on spaceship requests…
I searched for this very comment.
That last line got me
Amazing tutorial ! though a blueprint string would be nice, if only to look at the internal logic of combinators and the red and green wires
I made a fully automated supply train with a single supply spot capable of putting up to 40 different item types via 12 stack inserters running at max speed without risks of clicking. There were just like 3 combinators per inserter :D
You need a signal multiplexer clock for those radars.
I didn‘t figure out the logistic group in constant combinator thing so its more hardcoded but that is basically how I supply my Gleba outpost (arty outposts to keep the crawlers at bay).
My first solution however was just a very fast Spidotron that was following the train and could build stuff and it provides a similar effect. I eventually had to change it because using Spidotrons forces your arty train to wait in station until a possible retaliatory attack has occurred which really limits its effectiveness.
You missed one thing... 19:22 - "press the button"... yeah, hook up some gates on a wire to output that B signal, instead of the constant combinator, then just walk up to it, and things will happen. (Granted, it'll take a bit for the train to load and come too you, but you can just be chilling looking at unrelated stuff in map view while you wait.)
As someone with 11 hours in the game, I feel like I just opened pandora's box lmao. I had no idea the machines are that customizable--sounds a lot like setting up an automated farm in Minecraft. Satisfactory's train system (which I'm still struggling with for things like inclines/elevation changes) is a lot more barebones by comparison, so this is gonna take me weeks to learn lol
Why are you on TH-cam watching guides if you're only 11 hours in? Cmon man play the game your way! That's where most fun comes from!
@ I did get to oil refining, but I struggle with logistics. I just don’t want to spend 80hrs (as long as it took me to automate electricity in my first Satisfactory play) building a train set-up that will just need to get torn down immediately
I'm designing a supply station for the Aquilo base to have all the necessary materials on hand for any factory I could want to make. You can imagine that heat mechanic makes those designs really scuffed.
With 1 logistic bot, you could always have bots be dropped off into logistic chests and then use a requester chest for bots being put into a roboport. Less crap going on at the station.
Me(a week into Factorio) to my brain: You understand all this?
My brain: LoL, Lmao
i love how you do the balancers i also
10:37 This can be solved by an Interrupt condition of "If Train [Has no Path or Target Station Full] then [Go To: (pickup station) and (Wait until has been idle for 5 seconds)]"
6:04 That's not the minimum space possible. The 4 stations on the right load the speed modules through iron ore multiple times. And you aren't using the space to the bottom of them. The actual minimum solution consists of 4 stations, spaced every 6 squares (4 square gap in between them) and chests in all spots to the rear of the second-to-frontmost station, until you've reached 40 chests. That fits into 30 squares instead of 34. In both designs you do have to be careful to load anything that can be burned as train fuel from only the very rear-most inserters (unless you don't care about it potentially blocking train fuel slots).
6:07 That's the design that's actually smallest.
I expand my base for the hell of it and have 100s of millions of untouched resources within my walls. It will probably remain untouched because it’s not legendary, and it’s hard to make legendary, but asteroids aren’t.
It is possible to load more different items into a train by using a circuit network that sets inserter filters to only allow any given item to be transferred if there is more than handful of that item missing from the train
Hell, if you wanna get fancy and mind having 11 items less in the train that its maximum you can set the stack size dynamically so it’ll only grab as many items as needed, but then you need to set up a combinator per item you want to put in it
Edit: ah
I was thinking of a much simpler solution than what you ended up making, but uuhh… yeah that works too
The amount of circutry at work here makes my head spin, but at least I see trains, and I like trains.
Edit; Basically I need this explained to me like I'm 7. I would make use of this if only I understood every part of how it works, so I can make my own. I don't yet understand it, so. Old-fashioned designs is my way.
No blueprints?
Very cool.
"It's ok to admit you've never used active providers"
Speak for yourself XD
Active providers are my third most used logistic box right after requesters and logistic storage. I basically use logistic storage boxes primarily as part of the outputs of any production I have with the chest's filter set to the items that the production is making. I also use a lot of bot mall logistics and will also disable the crafters, inserters, and the requester chest supplying it if the item reaches a certain threshold in the logistic system. That way I can ensure a minimal stock and anything that is picked up and put in the logistic storage like from trains or bot building, the bots will automatically organize the items into the output chests of production. That way I don't have to worry about having a massive logistic storage dump with 300 yellow chests just taking the excess, it goes back to the production output to be reused. Requesters as I mentioned I not only use as a big part of production, but I also have disable if enough of the item it is making is made, so I don't have an excessive amount of items sitting in requester chests not being used. I also make sure requesters also are allowed to pull from buffers cause I use buffers more than I do passives. Which is exactly for what they're used for, honestly. The disabling of inserters and the crafters are a measure to save power and resources. Plus, when the need to make more does come up, it has a small buffer of items to make what is needed upon activation.
As for active providers, I use them mainly in trains, my bot based kovarex processing module that only uses what is needed to start the process and exporting excess to other modules or parts of the factory that it's needed, Gleba cause if things aren't used they rot, and generally parts of the factory where I don't want things to stockpile. My stockpile is essentially where the production happens, cause I like that kind of efficiency :P
I'd say the least used logistic chest I use is the passive provider. It's nice to have on occasion, but it has a niche use in my builds cause the logistic storage can fulfill the needs a passive provider does, and I can filter it. Passive providers generally are unique stockpile spots that have multiple items like dump chests like if I have an assembler that has dynamic recipes set up and I need a spot to pull excess items when the recipe changes. That way the resources are available if needed elsewhere, so long as the recipe doesn't need them, then an inserter will just pull them back in. They're good for storing items and keeping them available while also not letting bots drop items into the storage. An out only box but the items are available when no others are since logistic storages have a higher priority than passives.
But ye, logistic storage chests of all 5 kinds in general have gotten such a nice boost in 2.0, they make bot malls so much better :D
Ive got a very similar system but with 6 inserters per cargo wagon and you can have your train n cargo wagons long so it has just more throughput. One limitation that is bugging me is that you cant automatically request missing items for building ghosts so the sky isnt exactly the only limit. But you can use the blueprint contents to const combinator feature as you mentioned to alleviate some pain
I really thought I'd found the magic bullet with the "read logistics requests" until I realized it was ONLY personal logistics. But hey, maybe construction requests will be added to roboport circuits at a later date.
@InferAGoodTime when he Friday facts post that introduced the read logistic requests came out I was so hyped for about 2 seconds until I read the next line that said ghosts weren't included and I had concluded like month prior that without this feature automated ghost building requests were impossible without a buffer of every item at every supply station :(
You can do a sorta reverse supply train too, so when it's done building you can clear the logistic group of the blueprint, then a trash train comes to pick up any leftover junk and take it back to your base.
I built all of this before the selector combinators and logistic groups though. Been meaning to update my logistic train system using the new stuff so I don't have to go around manually updating my constant combinators anymore, haha. And cut my combinator count down. I have way too many combinators driving my fancy logistic trains ha.
I can live with one blueprint with a lot of the wire magic boxes saying that if something is less than required then bring the train and it will unload as much as specific box can fit.
i don't understand circuits at all, i'm too stupid for that.
3:00 what does "each greater than 0 than each" mean?
Programming at it's root tends to focus around "If X then Y" so you can consider a combinator's input it's "If" and it's output it's "then". Each is a special signal command in many machines that treats each individual signal icon individually and then feeds them through.
An "If Each > 0 Then Each" condition means that a decider will consider all signals fed to it, discard all that are below zero, and then send anything that is left through.
@InferAGoodTime Ah so basically: if x > 0, y = x, else y = 0
If it's 95% idle you can run the inserters 20 times slower so an inserter with stack size 1 is enough (?)
Fish & lube. Makes sense.
I put mayo on the egg
mayonegg
i it possible, there is no comprehensive train logistic tutorial for 2.0 that is on an advanced level without getting overwhelming?
If your going to transport fluid anyways, wouldn't using a reverse train negate the downside of 1 less insertion slot if the fluid wagon is first?
What does the radar do? Did I miss it?
edit: apparently it doesnt have a UI and isnt configuragle, but always shares the same circuit network with all other radars in the planet...added in space age
you REALLY should be using circuits to limit your chests instead of limiting the slots
this also allows you to use supply chests with a filter instead
Wait a second, so it is possible to use my personal inventory as a request for my train stations and trains, and then have them dump that into a buffer chest?
That is pretty cool. So I can do the same in general, and just buffer up far away outposts for possible future expansions. Of course this would have to be very far away before it is necessary. But I have already run to the end of the game twice. And I hate how big my games become. Totally unplayable. 😅
But it is really cool.
currently at 11:05 but hear me out, divide the requests by 12 and use 12 requester chests :) might have rounding errors but eh :3
Party time 💀
i don't see trupen , guess he missed this video
I'm trying to follow along and I cant. you are going too fast and even rewatching a number of times you are still going too fast. I am literally stopping at every point to try and copy what you are doing. Example 9:09 you have ONE selector combinator then you say to add an arithmetic combinator and the next thing I see is that you have TWO selector combinator, an arithmetic combinator and I have no idea what you just did.
Do you have a link to a blueprint that I can use to look at as you are rushing off?
How do you go to that interface to design blueprint ? :
th-cam.com/video/h5jFUncUZCU/w-d-xo.html
That's the "lab", if you create a new game, there are multiple scenarios, loading in sandbox and then using the editor to build stuff & clear the terrain allows you to test builds in a nice environement.
@@xelias124 thx I will do some test !
CRITICAL ROLE MENTION
Why i watch this? I need to stop play factorio x.x
I already have 20 games on my list of "I need to play"
Factorio is the worst enemy of my list
I already waste 10 hour build a automatic assembly that will make all quality of item that u want just change the combinator to set the quality and amount of itens (The thing have 20+ combinator), i dont need another section of my trying to build another abomination.
huh? && wut?
“arithmetic” is pronounced a-RITH-meh-tic, not UH-rith-MEH-tic