John T. Young Yup I don’t care what kind of Off Road Vehicle or ORV one has, there’s absolutely no reason for it to be eardrum blasting loud. I understand about those that disagree though... I pissed off many a fellow rider by refusing to ride their loud-ass ORV. I just smile and politely say no thanks. Even pissed off some Harley guys for the very same reason....
John T. Young What did you ride before this L? I rode KLR650’s all over the Colorado mountain passes... recently having to change to a quad and then a SxS because of my back and hips. You Post Certified?
I totally agree - and also in saving my eardrums, and being able to hear things around me and not scare wildlife (which I want to see). However, if one wants a quiet bike, why on earth remove all the sound dampening covers from the engine? They weigh next to nothing - so that change makes no sense to me. . . .
@@Eldofarmboy I stick to the 600 mile oil change if I'm off road a lot and go about 1500 if not. Usually it's mixed and I go about 1000 between changes. Off road Mileage is 45-50, freeway closer to 40. If I start feeling like I am good enough to use all the power it has I'm sure I'll start beefing it up.
Thank you for the helpful insight. Just bought mine and it's beating me up on the single track dirt trails. Here in Canada the engines are set way too lean. I think the power commander v will be the next purchase, along with new tires. I'm starting to believe zeta aftermarket is best bang for the buck. I think this bike is awesome. I just need to get a feel for the girl that's all. Stay rubber side down. Wrist twisting for life.
@@kilroyishere6190 you just ruined my old dreams. When I was a kid in the early 70's we all that if you took your silencer off, you instantly got 10 more hp and no one could catch you. Also, if you rode in the woods with moto-x boots, you were always faster than anyone else. lol
Appreciate the video, and agree with a lot of your feedback. I love the bike as well, and plan to add a Reklus clutch, rear hand break, etc. other than that hadn't thought much about exhaust with a computer, but it could help with it's current back firing issue.
If you're having backfiring issues an open exhaust only makes them worse... or louder anyway. Right now I have the Yoshimura system and the Power Commander V and the back firing is so bad I am switching to a Vortex ECU. I'll update you when I get it in a few weeks. The Reklus is for sure on my radar. Let me know how you like it if you add it.
It is just loud enough. Not bad at all with the spark arrestor installed. Nice low thumper sound. I'll try to record it better. I'm posting the install video this Saturday.
Any chance of getting links to all the add-ons you’ve put on? Really appreciate it and nice review! I have got to get a seat concepts seat and that IMS tank!!
@@JohnTYoung I was lucky because it happened about a week before my son and I started the Colorado BDR. IMS rushed it out so I could get it installed before we left Phoenix. We had been planning the trip for months. The trip was one of the funnest things I have ever done. Can’t wait to come back and do it again. Thanks for your videos. I always enjoy them.
Great review. I am considering the 450 L for my next dual sport. It would help while you're dishing out all this great info to go ahead and mention prices of your mods. I know we can look them up, but why not save people some time and provide all the info you have? Thanks for a great video.
I've bee too afraid of actually "Doing The Math" on how much I've spent. Worried my wife may watch one of these videos and beat me to death in my sleep.
I bought one about four months ago...lost money when I sold it. It didn't take long to figure out it was not the right bike. I now ride a crf1000. Love it. Twice the power.
I highly recommend the JD jetting fuel controller, I have one on my 2019 500 exc sumo. Allows you to adjust fueling on the fly within a safe parameter.
I have one now, but I am not really digging it. I have even "borrowed" a custom map. I'm going to give the Vortex ECU a try. I'll let you know what I think of the difference, if there is any.
To be fair he is the only one I have heard of having a failure with that bracket. Mine has been fantastic and a few others I know run them with no issues as well. Put anti-seize on your hardware and that can prevent the sticking go the one bolt in the brass insert.
@@texlee1640 True, and as I said I got on of the earlier ones. I have a new new one on now and we'll see how it holds up. I tend to beat my gear pretty hard so.....
Mine is modded very similar to yours, I went with the FMF and the Vortex instead, but pretty much everything else is similar. Once you drop some weight on these bikes and add a proper exhaust and tuner they are down right amazing. I am very happy with my decision to go with the 450L and mod it over the Husky 501 I was considering instead. It's nice to have such a versatile 450 and to not see your bike at every trail like you do with the orange ones lol. Not sure if I missed it in the video but did you comment on your valve checks and whether or not you needed any adjustments?
I'm stuck on this or just a dr z 400. I really want the off road ability of these. But want to ride to work on nice days, which would have me changing oil every month on this. I used to race a mx when I was a kid and like the fact that I could RIP around the track on the 450... but the race bike maintenance turns me off.
That is the conundrum everyone faces. I've found that with the Worx Oil Drain tool and some practice oil changes take 10 to 15 minutes. Easy Peasy. But ya, you have to do them a lot.
Thank you John for another great video, lots of good information and I appreciate you way of delivering the message - no hype, just the facts. I live on the Big Island of Hawaii and have ridden many trails on my 2005 KX250 over the past 15 years, and my Honda Pioneer 1000 for the past 3 years. I am looking forward to the next "dual sport" adventure now ( Just sold our Honda CBR street bike) I may be picking this bike up this week ! UPdate: I am with you on a quiet bike - whats the quietest exhaust ?
Good review. My L is at 2500 miles. I'm riding 99% dirt and possiby a bit more mx/trail and much less adventure than you are, but I agree with all you're saying. The Yosh + ECU mod is a game changer (I went with the Vortex) and aside from egonomic mods the only other key mod was tires, as you say. I notice you are running the MT21 front, not sure what you have on the back but it looks like a D606, not sure. I tried both those tires and although I liked the D606 I did not like the MT21. Am now running the Metzler MC360 mid-hard. Like them a lot, especially the front, and will likely go to the MC360 mid-soft next time around. Keep it up.
Eric Hansen what would you say the pros and cons are of the Honda 450l over a 2018 KTMEXC 500? Doing dual sport and adventure riding with the bike as well as our route and trails. 90% of road.
Thank you! In this video the front is still the stock IRC. The back is the Motoz Rallz in tubeless. I just got the Motoz front but haven't put it on yet. Yes, I tend to do a lot of road miles to get to my trail miles and I tend to add 500 to 800 miles to my bike at a shot. I'll be doing the COBDR in mid September and I'll do another review of the Adventure side of the bike then. I'll also have enough miles on the tires to have an opinion. Can't wait for my Vortex to come, hopefully before I leave for the COBDR. Fingers crossed.
@@chiptaxfree Out of the box the KTM is better suited to off road but less suited to on-road or adventure. When I bought the Honda I thought I'd ride it on road more but I've discovered I'd rather be on dirt and have been 99% offroad so far. Where I live I can do that since from my garage I'm only a few minutes from trails, lots of trails. So, I might have been better off with the KTM but what made me choose the Honda is the higher KTM maintenance intervals and Honda's reputation for reliability. I'm not dissappointed. After owning the L for the while I now think that once you put good tires, a pipe and ECU on the L you have a better more versitie bike that is theoretically more durable than the KTM. I guess we'll see.
Great review, I'm wondering about the typical service intervals that you covered and I suspect extended ranges are possible too. Great updates on the MPG with different oil. It really isn't about saving money but it would be good to know what services can be pushed and not having to worry to much about it. The Ti valve options really limited how far most of the mx version bikes could be stretched. Where is the balance between service interval and performance with other enduro bikes. It seems Honda did a good time with this trade off. Are you still running stock gearing? sorry if I missed it?
I'll be uploading a quick video shortly that covers some of this... But since I'm here... I just changed the oil after 1400 and... I waited too long I think. The oil was definitely darker/smellier/not cool. But I am in the middle of the COBDR and didn't have time / patients to do it. The average MPG over the trip has been 59. I just changed it out for Motul again and I'll follow up in 1200 more miles. Yes, stock gearing, though I have thought of dropping it a bit, add a tooth or two in the rear. I'm slow, so I lug it through technical stuff sometimes. Now, off to do some laundry!
Forge a new L bracket, takes a half hour. Spinning brass insert? Dremel some grooves from the brass out into the tank plastic and fill them with JB weld.
Or I could call IMS and have them send me new parts and send the defective parts back. Which is what I am doing. But if they had refused I would certainly be doing what you are suggesting.
@@JohnTYoung Well, that bracket will probably break again. But if you heat up some strap steel and bend it it will be stronger. I guess we are all used to having to fix brand new stuff.
Well, I'm not sure adding more horse power helps at all. I think the Throttle Tamer does a better job of smoothing the power out than the Power Commander. And to be honest, there is no Power Commander map for the CRF450L with an exhaust available. I'm finding that while you do gain horses you also get a rougher running and backfire prone machine. Not 100% happy with it. I either need to dyno the bike and set it up correctly, wait for someone else to upload a map that matches my setup, add the DynoJet Auto Tune, or try a Vector ECU.
Thanks, I will wait on that power commander. That L bracket that broke needs a rubber grommet. I put that tank on and thought, this does not seem right.
@@jkropp1873 Update - I just ordered the Vortex ECU. I'll do a vid when it shows up and I've putted around a few miles with it, but I am not pleased with this Power Commander and the tunes available.
Myself I DONT agree w the loud bike comment.. it’s mainly ment for road bikes, not dirt, people don’t see bikes on the road, the sound helps you to be noticed, if you ride road how can you not agree.. as for closing trails, totally false. Most trails have atv or UTVs that make even more noise.. maybe people that don’t like the sound of a louder bike are just over the hill... but hey, at least you still ride
I'm happy that this doesn't apply to where you live, but... I don't agree because we had several roads shut down here, where I live, for the loud bikes and UTVs. Hikers and walkers don't differentiate between them. All they know is that they are loud and they disturb their peace. So to say it's totally false... is totally false. And yes, I do still ride, but I try to be respectful of other people in our outdoors.
@Upaginit. Na his loud bike comments are right on. Way too many douche bags out there rapping out their harleys, sport bikes or piped dirt bikes with no regard to the sound polution being enflicted on others. And when I see it way too often it's never in a situation where the sound of their bike is saving them by alerting others to their presence. Bunch of Bull**** if ya ask me! Been riding dirt and street all my life and if your a safe and responsible rider there is no need to be obnoxiously loud. If you need to get another vehicles attention use a horn like everyone else. Quit using idiotic excuses to inflict rediculious noise polution on everyone else! Oh and turn your stupid blaring loud music down on your full dresser Harley if your one of those peeps. No one wants to here your music. Be respectful of others and you'll get respect from others!
Hi john t I watch your videos great stuff Please could you on any of your followers tell me best way to lower my crf450L 2019 suspension I have lowered the spring full adjustment and manage to drop it a bit I need a inch or 2 more to the seat height, would I get that much out of a lower link ? Zeta have said they do one that is -25mm (inch) but don’t know how this corresponds to seat height Any info would be great Many thanks Trevor ( uk) novice
I would start with a lower seat, drop the suspension to 110mm of race sag, and then add the Zeta Lowering link of necessary. Don't forget to drop the forks a little to compensate for lowering the rear of the bike.
Many thanks I will give this a shot I already took your advice on first thing, I put concept xl seat , I love the bikes handling on the road and with the seat it so much more comfortable Regards Trevor
I like the Zeta link that’s adjustable. They make good stuff. And lowering the front end may surprise you in how much lower the bike feels, but be careful as it will also change how the bike steers.
Your a very clever man wouldn’t of thought of that about front end , thanks again for your advice I have just ordered zeta link and it has also like cam settings for extra adjustment Regards Trevor
So John, have you or did you consider a CB500X? I know, street oriented, however some Rally Raid adds might balance that out. Trying to decide what to upgrade to from my 250L Rally. Generally ride around the 81435 zip,
I did not John. I was always way more interested in dirt than road performance. KTM 790 or Husky 701 we’re on the list. We’ll have to get together. I’m headed for Utah right now.
@@JohnTYoung One last thing, the throttle response on my 250L and I've read/heard on the 450L is pretty much on/off, ie not smooth. Can that be controlled with the programer (PC-V)?
Aside from wind issues, how comfortable is this bike at 75 mph on the highway? Does it feel tapped out at that speed? Where I live, there are 50-100 miles between trails, and I'm trying to determine if the CRF450L has enough motor or if I need something like the KTM 690. Even the back roads here are 75 mph, and folks drive 75-80. Thank you.
I don't know that the KTM690 and CRF450L are directly comparable. The 450 is a dirtbike with turn signals. It pulls well all the way up to it's 90 mph limiter, but it's twitchy at anything over 70 or 75. At highway speeds on windy days it'll make you re-think your life's decisions and dread passing semis. If you load it up with panniers for a week long trip the extra weight and rake calm it down considerably. But at the end of the day it's still a dirtbike with turn signals. Which is what I was looking for.
@@JohnTYoung Thanks for the insight. Many people have commented on how smooth the CRF450L is on the road, so I was hoping that it might work for me. It sounds like I'll need something bigger/heavier and consequently less dirt worthy.
John T. Young I just bought a mint XR400 and was wondering about oil for it ? This bike had the street kit installed and titled bike is mint about 600 miles with super motored excel wheels the guy paid almost $2000.00 for the wheels! I also have the stock wheels stole it $1500.00
Thermostat Delete is code for "remove all the smog emissions gear". It does take the thermostat out as well, but the kits include everything you need to button up your bike after the other parts are gone. I actually already did this and the bike runs like a champ without the thermostat.
John T. Young yeah No doubt its not really ugly just a little weird maybe because its weird to me to see a Honda with headlight where Im from No one really rides Honda especilly enduro. And i never seen on irl
Watched quite a few of your vids and liking what I'm watching so I'm subbed. Thanks for sharing your insight👍 Hope to one day purchase a used 450L to keep my street legal XR400 company lol. Really think the 450L is the next progression for those of us that love our XRs but want to upgrade to fuel injection. Also gotta say Awesome comment about loud bikes. I Cant Stand people that make their bikes ridiculously loud and ride around abnoxiously! Freakin idiots dont know their just pissing people off and giving motorcycling a bad name!
If you are riding on land and say there is not any trespassing sign, if you go on those trails with obnoxiously loud exhaust they are more prone to being gated.
Brian H good to know. I really like this bike, but was hoping for a more “enduro” style with longer maintenance intervals (I.e. 450 cc equivalent of the Yamaha wr250r) as opposed to a plated dirt bike.
Its mostly a kit to get rid of all the smog equipment and lighten everything up. The thermostat is part of that system Deleting the thermostat also let more water flow, but I've never had it overheat with or without it.
Yeah, deleting the thermostat would mean it would be much harder for the bike to maintain or even reach it's ideal temperature. Colder isn't always better!
I just wanna give a shout out for Amsoil been using it in all my dirtbike‘s wife’s quads and street bike my street bike has over 100,000 miles and runs as good as new lost the oil drain plug in the wife’s quad she drove it till it quit running towed it back to camp put a new drain plug in more amsoil and it ran fine till we sold it five years later
That's awesome. I noticed a 5 mpg jump when I switched to Motul. The Amsoil not as much, but I'm still running it. When I'm done, I'll switch back and forth bewteen the two a couple of times to see if there really is a difference or if it's something else. Thanks for telling me about your experiences tho. Nice to know I'm headed in the right direction.
If i were to daily commute this instead of tracking it, what would i be looking at in terms of maintanence service intervals? The manual says 600mile oil change and 1600mile valve adjustment check
I have heard, that you can stretch those miles out, 1000 or more for oil and double the valve lash inspection; but until someone has done that on their bike for 100,000 miles it's all just conjecture. Maybe that someone could be you! I smell a new TH-cam channel being born.
Easy Peasy. But I paid them for a working 3 gallon tank and all the parts that goes with it, not a weekend project for me to do myself. Besides, a new one came with the new tank anyways.
@@JohnTYoung I understand. I just watched the rest of the video. You might want to block out your plate in the video since it's not technically street legal anymore.
dang maqn a few hundred dollars more you'll be closing in on a Beta, it'll never be as good but it'll be close anyway. These are nice bikes for sure, Honda builds good stuff, but it is no means in the class of the Beta 500. I decided to drop the 10k and get a Beta, i waited for this bike to come out though, but the Beta beats it hands down at everything no mods needed, and the Trail Tech Voyager GPS is insane good. I think all i will add is slip on Q4...Roost
My rides range from 4000' in elevation to 12,000'. Many times during the same day. I did not want to deal with a carburetor anymore. Plus I have had Hondas and have never had any sort of issue with one. I hear the Beta is a beast of a machine though. Maybe when this one is paid off....
John, the Beta's are EFI now. Pilot, didn't know that, I know Honda's are good I"ve had a few. I think for about the same money then, the Beta is way further advanced than the Honda. Those Italians really take pride in their builds, if you look at that thing CLOSE you'll see lots I difference. I am sure also that the Beta is faster, lighter, and just as trouble free. Type in 2019 Beta 500 walk around and check it out, I just saw that vid a few days ago. Badass bike, and they dont mass produce em like the Japs do. Beta will actually custom build you one for a perfect fit
Flame out or stalling? No flame out. I never experienced that at all. Stalling it in tight rocky slow speed stuff - yes, but that's on me and my clutch hand. Now that I dropped a tooth on the rear sprocket and added the Rekluse the bike is stall proof and just tractors through anything.
FL GATOR Oh. Yes and no. That is Telluride. But the passes you go over on the Colorado Backcountry discovery route our Ophir corkscrew cinnamon and hurricane I believe. The CRF450L is a dirt bike at heart and can go over any pass I can think of. Much more easily than a 600 lbs Adventure touring bike.
These bikes are overpriced as they are and if you take into consideration all the extra add on's required it makes it even more expensive. A Himalayan is half the price and the componentry is far superior not to mention all the extra's that come with the bike as standard. 15 litre tank (400+ km range) std. Main stand (standard). touring screen (standard). braided brake lines (standard). Strong aluminium bash plate (standard). fuel gauge (standard). Compass (standard). dual trip counters (standard). Clock (standard). ambient temperature (standard). Very comfortable touring seat (standard). carrier (standard). Built to last-easy to work on and very reliable. No water cooling. Carburetor. 2 guards on the front -high/low (standard). analogue speedo and rev counter. Seat height 805mm (you can actually reach the ground with your feet even in difficult terrain. BIG BONUS.
Hello Frank. I think you are comparing apples to oranges. The Himalayan looks like a very utilitarian and competent bike. The CRF450L on the other hand is a de-fanged race dirt bike. Or a Super Moto if you put street tires on it. Or a straight up enduro bike with a more open exhaust. You're right in that some of the adventure bits are missing or are an after thought on Honda's part. Maybe next year they'll come out with a CRF450L Rally and fix all that. Maybe not. Either way, this bike will go absolutely anywhere (small gas tank not withstanding) a motorcycle can take you, and bring you back again... for a price.
@@JohnTYoung They try to claim it's an adventure bike out the box. It can't be all things to all people simply by putting different tyres on it. It is a trail bike-simply put, and a very expensive one especially when one considers all the extra accessories you'd need to buy for it.
@@frankpinion4937 no one claims it's an adventure bike. It's a dual sport. A lot of people have wanted a light powerful dirt bike that can go the miles, something more interesting than a drz. And this is exactly what the 450L is. It's based off an expensive dirt bike, and they had to do extra work to make it better on the road. You can't expect it to somehow be cheap despite that. I'm not saying it's what everyone wants, but that's what they made and there are people interested in it.
@@v1kku Has anyone gone round the world or done anything of note on one to prove their ability and reliability. I think the Himalayan has done this-35,000 km around the world. Itchy boots.com. Yes it would be an improvement on the DRZ, however the DR650SE is a very capable bike and much cheaper than the CRF. I still think overpriced Honda.
@Wayne Sowerby Itchy Boots has almost completed 35,000 km on a Himalayan with no problems. What's your CRF done? Check out itchy boot.com. I've done 6,500km on mine and encountered no issues at all-it's a great all round bike and represents incredible value for money-engineering skill and quality of finish.
John T. Young I ride a naked sport bike and my family are big Harley guys I just like the fact that when I hit a intersection or I’m in traffic I for a fact can blip my throttle and physically see people look at me. When I had my stock exhaust no one ever knew I was there.
Gibbon not at all attention seeking, more like wanting to go home to family so if making noise to get distracted drivers to hear you is what it takes then that’s what we gotta do.
Love the comment about loud bikes... truer words have never been spoken IMO.
We seem to be in the minority
John T. Young Yup I don’t care what kind of Off Road Vehicle or ORV one has, there’s absolutely no reason for it to be eardrum blasting loud. I understand about those that disagree though... I pissed off many a fellow rider by refusing to ride their loud-ass ORV. I just smile and politely say no thanks. Even pissed off some Harley guys for the very same reason....
John T. Young What did you ride before this L? I rode KLR650’s all over the Colorado mountain passes... recently having to change to a quad and then a SxS because of my back and hips. You Post Certified?
@@FletchDoesIt 2005 CRF250X, but I didn't use it for a lot of road riding. Before that CBR600RR. Vroom Vroom.
I totally agree - and also in saving my eardrums, and being able to hear things around me and not scare wildlife (which I want to see). However, if one wants a quiet bike, why on earth remove all the sound dampening covers from the engine? They weigh next to nothing - so that change makes no sense to me. . . .
I'm at 5k without all the mods and quite happy. Good job
I tried not to add too much stuff, but I'm weak.
Jeff how is your maintenance and fuel range on the stock bike?
@@Eldofarmboy I stick to the 600 mile oil change if I'm off road a lot and go about 1500 if not. Usually it's mixed and I go about 1000 between changes. Off road Mileage is 45-50, freeway closer to 40. If I start feeling like I am good enough to use all the power it has I'm sure I'll start beefing it up.
Diggin the way you review. Keep it up.. thank you. 👍
Thank you.
Anytime.. You deserve it
Super helpful comments ! Thanks for posting
You’re very welcome!
Hi John, how have you been? I miss ur videos. I love your 450 content. Hope your well an still ripping that 450.
Hi Bobby. I am doing ok. LOTS of work. Little ripping right now. With all this pent up wander lust next year should be epic.
You should send the motor oil for analysis. The analysis will tell you how much life was left in it.
Done. th-cam.com/video/vCFzJiYHBTU/w-d-xo.html
Hey that's a great video. Real world stuff. Sure I'll follow. I'm currently looking at the CRF 450L
Thank you!
"Loud pipes save lives" is valid for street. Quiet is definitely better for trail life. Dual sport needs a compromise. Nice bike.
3:58 I've been on that trail many times (alpine tunnel loop.) I can't wait to go back!
Me too.
Great input and quality, John!
Thank you kindly!
Thank you for the helpful insight. Just bought mine and it's beating me up on the single track dirt trails. Here in Canada the engines are set way too lean. I think the power commander v will be the next purchase, along with new tires.
I'm starting to believe zeta aftermarket is best bang for the buck.
I think this bike is awesome. I just need to get a feel for the girl that's all.
Stay rubber side down. Wrist twisting for life.
Vortex ECU and a new lighter non-catted pipe make a huge difference. She's a little heavy for single track, but always willing.
To be fair, loud bikes DO save lives. They also close trails
@@kilroyishere6190 Gotta love the Braaaaaaap!
So do Leatt braces and fluorescent helmets.
@@kilroyishere6190 you just ruined my old dreams. When I was a kid in the early 70's we all that if you took your silencer off, you instantly got 10 more hp and no one could catch you. Also, if you rode in the woods with moto-x boots, you were always faster than anyone else. lol
Honda will always have about the best motorcycle engine, nice bike, nice video...
Yup. Honda makes good stuff. Thank you!
4:09 That audio had me laughing pretty hard lol
Appreciate the video, and agree with a lot of your feedback. I love the bike as well, and plan to add a Reklus clutch, rear hand break, etc. other than that hadn't thought much about exhaust with a computer, but it could help with it's current back firing issue.
If you're having backfiring issues an open exhaust only makes them worse... or louder anyway. Right now I have the Yoshimura system and the Power Commander V and the back firing is so bad I am switching to a Vortex ECU. I'll update you when I get it in a few weeks. The Reklus is for sure on my radar. Let me know how you like it if you add it.
Yea will do you thanks for the reply keep posting I appreciate the videos. @@JohnTYoung
Try a FMF quiet great silencers
Great Vid. How much louder is the Yoshi RS4??? I'm like yourself, much prefer quieter bikes. Is it annoyingly loud at freeway speeds??
It is just loud enough. Not bad at all with the spark arrestor installed. Nice low thumper sound. I'll try to record it better. I'm posting the install video this Saturday.
Actually you can use ear plug.
Any chance of getting links to all the add-ons you’ve put on? Really appreciate it and nice review! I have got to get a seat concepts seat and that IMS tank!!
hollywoodf150 I was planning trying that for the 6000 mile review. For at least the parts I can remember.
Hi John! As always great video! Can u please tell me were u purchased the tusk rear disk guard? Thanks,Chad
I hate to say but I don't remember. It's either a Zeta style or a fake Zeta style.
Great video, if you don't mind, where are you riding? Beautiful views
Most of it is from the Alpine Loop between Ouray and Silverton, Colorado
Great bike , great review!
I had the same issue with my IMS tank. The tank insert spun out. Tank was ruined. They sent me a new one as it was only a couple months old.
Ya, that's a common issue for sure. But they always seem happy to send you another one.
@@JohnTYoung I was lucky because it happened about a week before my son and I started the Colorado BDR. IMS rushed it out so I could get it installed before we left Phoenix. We had been planning the trip for months. The trip was one of the funnest things I have ever done. Can’t wait to come back and do it again. Thanks for your videos. I always enjoy them.
Great video mate . Think I'll go for one of these insted of a WR450f
I think the CRF450L is better on the street and fast gravel roads. I do like Yamahas, however.
Great review. I am considering the 450 L for my next dual sport. It would help while you're dishing out all this great info to go ahead and mention prices of your mods. I know we can look them up, but why not save people some time and provide all the info you have? Thanks for a great video.
I've bee too afraid of actually "Doing The Math" on how much I've spent. Worried my wife may watch one of these videos and beat me to death in my sleep.
@@JohnTYoung LOL
I bought one about four months ago...lost money when I sold it.
It didn't take long to figure out it was not the right bike. I now ride a crf1000. Love it. Twice the power.
Chuck Bowen I hear ya Chuck. My next bike will be a CRF1100L. But I will be keeping the 450 for my fun dirt rides for sure.
You will love it!
Not right due to the onroad capability?
Ur talking about two different bikes al together
I highly recommend the JD jetting fuel controller, I have one on my 2019 500 exc sumo. Allows you to adjust fueling on the fly within a safe parameter.
I have one now, but I am not really digging it. I have even "borrowed" a custom map. I'm going to give the Vortex ECU a try. I'll let you know what I think of the difference, if there is any.
@@JohnTYoung what ecu did u end up with
@@josephjoestar5444 Vortex for now.
I'd go mx52 front and back, best tyre on the market.
So far I have been really impressed with Motoz RallZs on and off road. But at a little over 3000 miles it's time to get some new rubber.
Wow! I was just getting ready to order imf tank, not now. Yikes!
They just sent me a brand new one and a shipping return label for the old. No questions asked. There is that.
To be fair he is the only one I have heard of having a failure with that bracket. Mine has been fantastic and a few others I know run them with no issues as well. Put anti-seize on your hardware and that can prevent the sticking go the one bolt in the brass insert.
@@texlee1640 True, and as I said I got on of the earlier ones. I have a new new one on now and we'll see how it holds up. I tend to beat my gear pretty hard so.....
Darrell Beatty runs the ims tanks on the crf450L with his tour company and they cover some of the most inhospitable country on the planet.
Mine is modded very similar to yours, I went with the FMF and the Vortex instead, but pretty much everything else is similar. Once you drop some weight on these bikes and add a proper exhaust and tuner they are down right amazing. I am very happy with my decision to go with the 450L and mod it over the Husky 501 I was considering instead. It's nice to have such a versatile 450 and to not see your bike at every trail like you do with the orange ones lol. Not sure if I missed it in the video but did you comment on your valve checks and whether or not you needed any adjustments?
I've gone through two valve checks now and so far everything is perfect.
@@JohnTYoung That's great to hear, I have my first one coming up in 600 miles, hoping they don't need adjustment.
@@JohnTYoung That's the big turn off for me. I think I will get the new DR4-S that is coming out.
I'm stuck on this or just a dr z 400. I really want the off road ability of these. But want to ride to work on nice days, which would have me changing oil every month on this. I used to race a mx when I was a kid and like the fact that I could RIP around the track on the 450... but the race bike maintenance turns me off.
That is the conundrum everyone faces. I've found that with the Worx Oil Drain tool and some practice oil changes take 10 to 15 minutes. Easy Peasy. But ya, you have to do them a lot.
Thank you John for another great video, lots of good information and I appreciate you way of delivering the message - no hype, just the facts.
I live on the Big Island of Hawaii and have ridden many trails on my 2005 KX250 over the past 15 years, and my Honda Pioneer 1000 for the past 3 years. I am looking forward to the next "dual sport" adventure now ( Just sold our Honda CBR street bike) I may be picking this bike up this week !
UPdate: I am with you on a quiet bike - whats the quietest exhaust ?
Good review. My L is at 2500 miles. I'm riding 99% dirt and possiby a bit more mx/trail and much less adventure than you are, but I agree with all you're saying. The Yosh + ECU mod is a game changer (I went with the Vortex) and aside from egonomic mods the only other key mod was tires, as you say. I notice you are running the MT21 front, not sure what you have on the back but it looks like a D606, not sure. I tried both those tires and although I liked the D606 I did not like the MT21. Am now running the Metzler MC360 mid-hard. Like them a lot, especially the front, and will likely go to the MC360 mid-soft next time around. Keep it up.
Eric Hansen what would you say the pros and cons are of the Honda 450l over a 2018 KTMEXC 500? Doing dual sport and adventure riding with the bike as well as our route and trails. 90% of road.
Thank you! In this video the front is still the stock IRC. The back is the Motoz Rallz in tubeless. I just got the Motoz front but haven't put it on yet. Yes, I tend to do a lot of road miles to get to my trail miles and I tend to add 500 to 800 miles to my bike at a shot. I'll be doing the COBDR in mid September and I'll do another review of the Adventure side of the bike then. I'll also have enough miles on the tires to have an opinion. Can't wait for my Vortex to come, hopefully before I leave for the COBDR. Fingers crossed.
@@chiptaxfree Out of the box the KTM is better suited to off road but less suited to on-road or adventure. When I bought the Honda I thought I'd ride it on road more but I've discovered I'd rather be on dirt and have been 99% offroad so far. Where I live I can do that since from my garage I'm only a few minutes from trails, lots of trails. So, I might have been better off with the KTM but what made me choose the Honda is the higher KTM maintenance intervals and Honda's reputation for reliability. I'm not dissappointed. After owning the L for the while I now think that once you put good tires, a pipe and ECU on the L you have a better more versitie bike that is theoretically more durable than the KTM. I guess we'll see.
Enjoyed that 🖖
I try!
Nice mods John..lm finally getting my Drz to the point l want mod wise and now Honda comes out with this haha...one day maybe..cool review 👍
Thank you.
@@MtnPeakEnduro That is exactly what it is. I'm trying to figure out how far I can push them out before I start feeling creepy.
@@MtnPeakEnduro at least the oil changes are easy and dont require much oil..but yeah l hear ya 👍
Subscribed.
You're the best.
Great review, I'm wondering about the typical service intervals that you covered and I suspect extended ranges are possible too. Great updates on the MPG with different oil. It really isn't about saving money but it would be good to know what services can be pushed and not having to worry to much about it. The Ti valve options really limited how far most of the mx version bikes could be stretched. Where is the balance between service interval and performance with other enduro bikes. It seems Honda did a good time with this trade off. Are you still running stock gearing? sorry if I missed it?
I'll be uploading a quick video shortly that covers some of this... But since I'm here... I just changed the oil after 1400 and... I waited too long I think. The oil was definitely darker/smellier/not cool. But I am in the middle of the COBDR and didn't have time / patients to do it. The average MPG over the trip has been 59. I just changed it out for Motul again and I'll follow up in 1200 more miles. Yes, stock gearing, though I have thought of dropping it a bit, add a tooth or two in the rear. I'm slow, so I lug it through technical stuff sometimes. Now, off to do some laundry!
@@JohnTYoung What are the valve service interval for the 450L?
1800 inspections. We'll see when the Ti valves start to go.
Forge a new L bracket, takes a half hour. Spinning brass insert? Dremel some grooves from the brass out into the tank plastic and fill them with JB weld.
Or I could call IMS and have them send me new parts and send the defective parts back. Which is what I am doing. But if they had refused I would certainly be doing what you are suggesting.
@@JohnTYoung Well, that bracket will probably break again. But if you heat up some strap steel and bend it it will be stronger. I guess we are all used to having to fix brand new stuff.
Thanks for that idea, I have one in my Husky that Im gonna JB weld, thanks
Can you talk more about the power commander and exhaust install. I put the throttle tamer on, and it did help that on off throttle response some.
Well, I'm not sure adding more horse power helps at all. I think the Throttle Tamer does a better job of smoothing the power out than the Power Commander. And to be honest, there is no Power Commander map for the CRF450L with an exhaust available. I'm finding that while you do gain horses you also get a rougher running and backfire prone machine. Not 100% happy with it. I either need to dyno the bike and set it up correctly, wait for someone else to upload a map that matches my setup, add the DynoJet Auto Tune, or try a Vector ECU.
Thanks, I will wait on that power commander. That L bracket that broke needs a rubber grommet. I put that tank on and thought, this does not seem right.
@@jkropp1873 Update - I just ordered the Vortex ECU. I'll do a vid when it shows up and I've putted around a few miles with it, but I am not pleased with this Power Commander and the tunes available.
@xpantz Can't wait to get it!
As n update / IMS just sent me a new tank to replace the one with the spinner and the broken L bracket. Super nice customer service people.
Myself I DONT agree w the loud bike comment.. it’s mainly ment for road bikes, not dirt, people don’t see bikes on the road, the sound helps you to be noticed, if you ride road how can you not agree.. as for closing trails, totally false. Most trails have atv or UTVs that make even more noise.. maybe people that don’t like the sound of a louder bike are just over the hill... but hey, at least you still ride
I'm happy that this doesn't apply to where you live, but... I don't agree because we had several roads shut down here, where I live, for the loud bikes and UTVs. Hikers and walkers don't differentiate between them. All they know is that they are loud and they disturb their peace. So to say it's totally false... is totally false. And yes, I do still ride, but I try to be respectful of other people in our outdoors.
@Upaginit. Na his loud bike comments are right on. Way too many douche bags out there rapping out their harleys, sport bikes or piped dirt bikes with no regard to the sound polution being enflicted on others. And when I see it way too often it's never in a situation where the sound of their bike is saving them by alerting others to their presence. Bunch of Bull**** if ya ask me! Been riding dirt and street all my life and if your a safe and responsible rider there is no need to be obnoxiously loud. If you need to get another vehicles attention use a horn like everyone else. Quit using idiotic excuses to inflict rediculious noise polution on everyone else! Oh and turn your stupid blaring loud music down on your full dresser Harley if your one of those peeps. No one wants to here your music. Be respectful of others and you'll get respect from others!
Looking at one today, link for tank? Great review
Very cool! You're going to love it. bit.ly/2zzhzPX
Good video.
Thanks for the visit
Fram is the worst oil filter you could possibly get. Never use fram filters.
So you spend all day passing sXs, 4wheelers and 4wd trucks/jeeps too. Where have all the bikes gone? We are a dying breed.
There were bikes on the weekend. We must all be weekend warriors anymore.
Hi john t I watch your videos great stuff
Please could you on any of your followers tell me best way to lower my crf450L 2019 suspension I have lowered the spring full adjustment and manage to drop it a bit I need a inch or 2 more to the seat height, would I get that much out of a lower link ? Zeta have said they do one that is -25mm (inch) but don’t know how this corresponds to seat height
Any info would be great
Many thanks Trevor ( uk) novice
I would start with a lower seat, drop the suspension to 110mm of race sag, and then add the Zeta Lowering link of necessary. Don't forget to drop the forks a little to compensate for lowering the rear of the bike.
Many thanks I will give this a shot I already took your advice on first thing, I put concept xl seat , I love the bikes handling on the road and with the seat it so much more comfortable
Regards Trevor
I like the Zeta link that’s adjustable. They make good stuff. And lowering the front end may surprise you in how much lower the bike feels, but be careful as it will also change how the bike steers.
Your a very clever man wouldn’t of thought of that about front end , thanks again for your advice I have just ordered zeta link and it has also like cam settings for extra adjustment
Regards Trevor
What's your current miles??? And any serious mechanical problems??
22,000 or so and nope, runs like a Honda.
Nice. I just got a brand new 23 for $8999 getting ready to go for a cruise with my dad and bro, a Harley a V Strom and a CRF450RL..... :).
So John, have you or did you consider a CB500X? I know, street oriented, however some Rally Raid adds might balance that out. Trying to decide what to upgrade to from my 250L Rally. Generally ride around the 81435 zip,
I did not John. I was always way more interested in dirt than road performance. KTM 790 or Husky 701 we’re on the list. We’ll have to get together. I’m headed for Utah right now.
@@JohnTYoung One last thing, the throttle response on my 250L and I've read/heard on the 450L is pretty much on/off, ie not smooth. Can that be controlled with the programer (PC-V)?
John Williamson This battle tamer and the power commander helped a little bit. The Vortx and throttle tamer fixed everything.
Acerbis = [uh CHAIR bees]
it is AH-Chair-Beez
Welcome to the discussion. !
New to bikes. Are supermoto tire setup heavier than dirt spec?
What a great question. I have no idea. I had never really thought about SuperMoto-ing my bike. Anybody else out there with an answer?
What state are you in? Those trails look like a good time.
Colorado. Lot's of single and double track.
Aside from wind issues, how comfortable is this bike at 75 mph on the highway? Does it feel tapped out at that speed? Where I live, there are 50-100 miles between trails, and I'm trying to determine if the CRF450L has enough motor or if I need something like the KTM 690. Even the back roads here are 75 mph, and folks drive 75-80. Thank you.
I don't know that the KTM690 and CRF450L are directly comparable. The 450 is a dirtbike with turn signals. It pulls well all the way up to it's 90 mph limiter, but it's twitchy at anything over 70 or 75. At highway speeds on windy days it'll make you re-think your life's decisions and dread passing semis. If you load it up with panniers for a week long trip the extra weight and rake calm it down considerably. But at the end of the day it's still a dirtbike with turn signals. Which is what I was looking for.
@@JohnTYoung Thanks for the insight. Many people have commented on how smooth the CRF450L is on the road, so I was hoping that it might work for me. It sounds like I'll need something bigger/heavier and consequently less dirt worthy.
What do you use for oil? Full synthetic what brand
I use Motul300V but I have used Amsoil as well.
John T. Young I just bought a mint XR400 and was wondering about oil for it ? This bike had the street kit installed and titled bike is mint about 600 miles with super motored excel wheels the guy paid almost $2000.00 for the wheels!
I also have the stock wheels stole it $1500.00
I bought bell ray full synthetic with added eastor very good oil
@@markkus1134 I like full synthetics.
Why do the thermostat delete? Thanks nick
Thermostat Delete is code for "remove all the smog emissions gear". It does take the thermostat out as well, but the kits include everything you need to button up your bike after the other parts are gone. I actually already did this and the bike runs like a champ without the thermostat.
I just dont like the look of the headlight and the turn signals otherwise very Nice bike
I like it. I think it looks like a praying mantis ready to pounce .
John T. Young yeah No doubt its not really ugly just a little weird maybe because its weird to me to see a Honda with headlight where Im from No one really rides Honda especilly enduro. And i never seen on irl
@@mariusfriberg8745 Maybe if it proves itself you will start seeing them more often. Maybe not, as the X or RX is a better racer.
Watched quite a few of your vids and liking what I'm watching so I'm subbed. Thanks for sharing your insight👍 Hope to one day purchase a used 450L to keep my street legal XR400 company lol. Really think the 450L is the next progression for those of us that love our XRs but want to upgrade to fuel injection. Also gotta say Awesome comment about loud bikes. I Cant Stand people that make their bikes ridiculously loud and ride around abnoxiously! Freakin idiots dont know their just pissing people off and giving motorcycling a bad name!
Thanks so much for the visit and the sub! Everyone needs a companion bike for their XR!
Hey guys when he said loud exhausts close trails what does he mean?
If you are riding on land and say there is not any trespassing sign, if you go on those trails with obnoxiously loud exhaust they are more prone to being gated.
Motul Oil = Excellent & Fram Oil Filters not so much.
What are your favorite filters?
Is it a bloody L bracket? As in bloody ell it broke
Yas!
Have you had your valves checked yet and do you find that necessary every 1200 miles?
I checked them at 1800 and they were fine. I'll check again shortly, just to track the wear.
5500 miles on my ktm 500. Never had the valves adjusted. Would imagine this Honda would easily do that and more.
Brian H good to know. I really like this bike, but was hoping for a more “enduro” style with longer maintenance intervals (I.e. 450 cc equivalent of the Yamaha wr250r) as opposed to a plated dirt bike.
Just checked the valves again. Right on the money. 3600 miles and going
John T. Young Could you do a tutorial on how to do that?
Thermostat delete .. how does it help you bike ?
Its mostly a kit to get rid of all the smog equipment and lighten everything up. The thermostat is part of that system Deleting the thermostat also let more water flow, but I've never had it overheat with or without it.
Yeah, deleting the thermostat would mean it would be much harder for the bike to maintain or even reach it's ideal temperature. Colder isn't always better!
Weld the bracket
I just wanna give a shout out for Amsoil been using it in all my dirtbike‘s wife’s quads and street bike my street bike has over 100,000 miles and runs as good as new lost the oil drain plug in the wife’s quad she drove it till it quit running towed it back to camp put a new drain plug in more amsoil and it ran fine till we sold it five years later
That's awesome. I noticed a 5 mpg jump when I switched to Motul. The Amsoil not as much, but I'm still running it. When I'm done, I'll switch back and forth bewteen the two a couple of times to see if there really is a difference or if it's something else. Thanks for telling me about your experiences tho. Nice to know I'm headed in the right direction.
Where did you get your frame guards?
Probably Rocky Mountain ATV/MC. They are for the X.
If i were to daily commute this instead of tracking it, what would i be looking at in terms of maintanence service intervals? The manual says 600mile oil change and 1600mile valve adjustment check
I have heard, that you can stretch those miles out, 1000 or more for oil and double the valve lash inspection; but until someone has done that on their bike for 100,000 miles it's all just conjecture. Maybe that someone could be you! I smell a new TH-cam channel being born.
Loud pipes save lives ..... and close trails lol
I guess all the electric riders will die then :)
You can't make that bracket?
Easy Peasy. But I paid them for a working 3 gallon tank and all the parts that goes with it, not a weekend project for me to do myself. Besides, a new one came with the new tank anyways.
@@JohnTYoung I understand. I just watched the rest of the video. You might want to block out your plate in the video since it's not technically street legal anymore.
stock > yosh
What tyres do you have on the bike?
I have a Motoz Rallz on the back. I'm waiting on a back-ordered one for the front.
Motoz FTW! I have a tractionator I/T with like 1500 miles on my 250l and its only a third gone. bought the Rallz for the next time
Holy hell 300 for a rear tire? Ill stick with my kenda big blocks
@@bmxdestroy $300? Where are you looking? No way I'd pay that.
Do you run normal tubes?
Waiting for the internet to flame you about using the fram filter.... lolll
In 3, 2, 1...
dang maqn a few hundred dollars more you'll be closing in on a Beta, it'll never be as good but it'll be close anyway. These are nice bikes for sure, Honda builds good stuff, but it is no means in the class of the Beta 500. I decided to drop the 10k and get a Beta, i waited for this bike to come out though, but the Beta beats it hands down at everything no mods needed, and the Trail Tech Voyager GPS is insane good. I think all i will add is slip on Q4...Roost
My rides range from 4000' in elevation to 12,000'. Many times during the same day. I did not want to deal with a carburetor anymore. Plus I have had Hondas and have never had any sort of issue with one. I hear the Beta is a beast of a machine though. Maybe when this one is paid off....
The CRF is also 10k
John, the Beta's are EFI now. Pilot, didn't know that, I know Honda's are good I"ve had a few. I think for about the same money then, the Beta is way further advanced than the Honda. Those Italians really take pride in their builds, if you look at that thing CLOSE you'll see lots I difference. I am sure also that the Beta is faster, lighter, and just as trouble free. Type in 2019 Beta 500 walk around and check it out, I just saw that vid a few days ago. Badass bike, and they dont mass produce em like the Japs do. Beta will actually custom build you one for a perfect fit
Are you riding in western Washington?
No. Colorado and Utah mostly. Why, does it look similar?
Please tell me where did you get zeta clutch and brake levers! Years and model that works on 450L?
www.crfsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/7002
any stalling issues?
Flame out or stalling? No flame out. I never experienced that at all. Stalling it in tight rocky slow speed stuff - yes, but that's on me and my clutch hand. Now that I dropped a tooth on the rear sprocket and added the Rekluse the bike is stall proof and just tractors through anything.
@@JohnTYoung It seems there is a lot of TH-cam articles about stalling at low speed and the bike needs a 6 speed?
What town is in this video? Thank you
FL GATOR Which part of the video. Snowmass. CO. or. San Juan Mountains.
@@JohnTYoung Is that near Telluride and Black Bear Pass? Is the 450L Black Bear Pass worthy? Thank You
FL GATOR Oh. Yes and no. That is Telluride. But the passes you go over on the Colorado Backcountry discovery route our Ophir corkscrew cinnamon and hurricane I believe. The CRF450L is a dirt bike at heart and can go over any pass I can think of. Much more easily than a 600 lbs Adventure touring bike.
Thank you sir that is a bucket list dream of mine.
Super motards?
Supermoto. I'm old. Sorry.
gasgas.com/us/ekids/560/96/supermotard-one
What clutch cover is that?
The stock one.
still brass u tighten it too much that it span
Not any tighter than on the other side. IMS has since replaced the tank. The new one - no spinning.
@@JohnTYoung good to hear nice bike
Why do you have racing numbers on a on/off bike? surly you don't race this bike?
No I do not. I just like them. I am a 911 Dispatcher.
2-3 hrs before whining lol
try a DRZ with a stock seat,,, ouch..
your not saying zeta right
Zee tah? Zay tah? Zay tu? Zet uh? Help a brother out.
@@JohnTYoung zee tah, meesa thinks
Ktm 500 exc
U mean supermoto not supermotar
Nope. I meant supermotard. But I'm old and behind the times. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermoto
I have a solution for your sound problem, but an electric bike
Would love an electric bike with a 150 mile range that recharges in 10 minutes. SOLD!
Hate to be THAT guy but... from what I hear, Acerbis is pronounced “Ah-cher-beez” 😜
I've heard pronounced that way too. Kinda like Thule.
Emile Modesitt it’s in their Instagram bio lol
@@gabewilliams5993 Ah - chair - bees. Got it.
🙉 should have bought an electric dirt bike then
If they had the range and chargability I probably would. Maybe in 10 years?
ประเทศไทยต้องการรถรุ่นนี้
ใช่
These bikes are overpriced as they are and if you take into consideration all the extra add on's required it makes it even more expensive. A Himalayan is half the price and the componentry is far superior not to mention all the extra's that come with the bike as standard. 15 litre tank (400+ km range) std. Main stand (standard). touring screen (standard). braided brake lines (standard). Strong aluminium bash plate (standard). fuel gauge (standard). Compass (standard). dual trip counters (standard). Clock (standard). ambient temperature (standard). Very comfortable touring seat (standard). carrier (standard). Built to last-easy to work on and very reliable. No water cooling. Carburetor. 2 guards on the front -high/low (standard). analogue speedo and rev counter. Seat height 805mm (you can actually reach the ground with your feet even in difficult terrain. BIG BONUS.
Hello Frank. I think you are comparing apples to oranges. The Himalayan looks like a very utilitarian and competent bike. The CRF450L on the other hand is a de-fanged race dirt bike. Or a Super Moto if you put street tires on it. Or a straight up enduro bike with a more open exhaust. You're right in that some of the adventure bits are missing or are an after thought on Honda's part. Maybe next year they'll come out with a CRF450L Rally and fix all that. Maybe not. Either way, this bike will go absolutely anywhere (small gas tank not withstanding) a motorcycle can take you, and bring you back again... for a price.
@@JohnTYoung They try to claim it's an adventure bike out the box. It can't be all things to all people simply by putting different tyres on it. It is a trail bike-simply put, and a very expensive one especially when one considers all the extra accessories you'd need to buy for it.
@@frankpinion4937 no one claims it's an adventure bike. It's a dual sport. A lot of people have wanted a light powerful dirt bike that can go the miles, something more interesting than a drz. And this is exactly what the 450L is. It's based off an expensive dirt bike, and they had to do extra work to make it better on the road. You can't expect it to somehow be cheap despite that. I'm not saying it's what everyone wants, but that's what they made and there are people interested in it.
@@v1kku Has anyone gone round the world or done anything of note on one to prove their ability and reliability. I think the Himalayan has done this-35,000 km around the world. Itchy boots.com. Yes it would be an improvement on the DRZ, however the DR650SE is a very capable bike and much cheaper than the CRF. I still think overpriced Honda.
@Wayne Sowerby Itchy Boots has almost completed 35,000 km on a Himalayan with no problems. What's your CRF done? Check out itchy boot.com. I've done 6,500km on mine and encountered no issues at all-it's a great all round bike and represents incredible value for money-engineering skill and quality of finish.
Loud bikes do save lives lol highly disagree
My brother is a Harley guy. He disagrees too.
John T. Young I ride a naked sport bike and my family are big Harley guys I just like the fact that when I hit a intersection or I’m in traffic I for a fact can blip my throttle and physically see people look at me. When I had my stock exhaust no one ever knew I was there.
Gibbon not at all attention seeking, more like wanting to go home to family so if making noise to get distracted drivers to hear you is what it takes then that’s what we gotta do.