This company had my respect, because I bought all the content of train world 2 and was very upset to find out train sim world 3 was coming out, but the company reassured me, all my bought content can be carried over from two to three with out having to buy it over again much respect 😍🥰
It will be made compatible across the games. For eg, East coastway and GWR are cross compatible across 1-2-3. I bet money it will be the same for 4 too, aswell as converting already released dlc too.
Excellent video. Personally, I think the drop in annual profits might have a lot to do with TSW2 and TSW3 both been on gamepass, with DTG hoping that those who took it for free might be more inclined to splash out on multiple DLC's to balance the books. It's blatantly obvious this ploy failed miserably though because you only have to look at the bulk off the achievement stats for these addons to see that barely 1-2% of the game's userbase have managed to complete the default 'finish one service' achievement, so that in itself suggests that 98% of available customers weren't as stupid as DTG thought they would be! They know that £30 will buy them an awful lot more than 25-50 miles of average quality railway tracks. I bought physical copies of Dakar Desert Rally, Train life and Raiden IV all on day one....and all less than £30 each. Oh, and Transport fever 2 cost a mere £2 more than the godawful Midland Mainline! TSW2 was my last core purchase (#3 was played on gamepass with zero addons bought for it) and I have no intentions whatsoever to buy into TSW4...
When I got TSW3 with loads of DLC, and a 100% contribution to charity on humblebundle for less than £10, I knew that new announcement would be for another cash grabbing new game.
I went the same route. Last purchase was TSW2 and just played TSW3 content off GamePass. Played it for maybe 3 to 4 hours total even though it was free. Terrible optimisation and god awful menu colours kept me away. Once I heard that TSW4 would be just the same optimisation wise as the last I was already out before it began. DTG's philosophy for the past couple of releases seems to be "hey click this" in Unreal editor and then sell it as a new game with all new features. Pathetic, but for them it's a cheap way of making a buck off impressionable youth and their legions of zombie sheep.
@@StrikeEagle78 Yeah, I 100% agree. Also, it's good to see we share the same views on the forums because there's way too many rose--tinted folk out there who fail to see the harm that DTG's policies are causing - especially with the 'washing their hands of unresolved issues' attitude that they've adopted with TSW3....and the promised but never received fixes for TSW2.
I think one of the main issues is lack of competition. There is no impetus on DTG to fix things after they are released, or to not go down this cash grabbing route to look after the community, because where else are we realistically going to go
people also need to remember Dovetail seems to play safe - always a UK - german -US route- why not Holland - Spain - why does it have to be iconic - the answer is sales and marketability. If it doesnt sell, it's pointless making it. They should follow MSFS - update the routes you payfor - free loco's for it - scenery changes etc. and each route should have more loco's - more liveries - gets sponsors for the stations etc - costa - starbucks - 1 livery per route makes it a simulator - multiple trains make it real and what we want- so make a game - not a sim.
Agreed on all points, thank you. I would add that 10 years ago the TS Classic modding community, which was growing with routes popping up from all over the world and contained many dedicated talented artists and engineers were told there would be no editor in the upcoming TSW series, leaving content creators high and dry with an outdated simulator and compensation model with no real future ahead. As we've seen, the switch to Unreal was not a one-company project. They literally needed all hands on deck. So, it's no surprise TSW4 is the fourth lemon of the series. I'm not sure an editor will help at this point. They will find a way to screw that up, too.
What I will say, is that yes, I am going to get TSW4, but for Christmas. I was rather irked that they announced TSW4 just a year after they released TSW3, which I was fully expecting to run for at least a couple of years like TSW2 did. If however Dovetail announces TSW5 next year, I will probably not get that one, unless something strongly convinces me otherwise......that is my position
As a former UK train driver myself, I never bought any 'train sim world' games and probably never will, as I don't like companies that scam us [like paradox et al] and have been put off since I bought the old TS and all it's 'dlc's'/'add-ons'. So another no from me. Rather watch it played on here than buy it myself!
I might grab a copy when it has a 50% discount on steam, but until then TSW 3 will do for me. It's a clear cash grab by DTG and one I won't be falling for, but having said that I really don't play TSW 3 much anyway it's just something a picked up when it was on sale.
They've been at this since they started. But tsw 3 to tsw 4 release was absolutely mental. I won't be buying 4, and next one I will buy will have to have significant upgrade on previous release. The fact that they didn't do kings cross says it all. It's like they don't know about trains and how to utilize rolling stock already modelled, it's insulting to their customers.
It's free on Xbox Game Pass and includes 3 route DLCs. Of course, there are 91 other DLCs in the Xbox Store to purchase (optionally). They seem fairly reasonably priced (most around the £15-20 mark, some less, some more).
What they need to do is ditch the gen 8 consoles so they can make UE5 games and be able to keep to a game for more than 11 months, because they don’t have to adapt an older engine to look good on new consoles and pc
Inflation figures are kinda not great for figuring out what the price of something should be today relative to the price of something a year ago, this is because of how inflation is measured which is a whole mess based on a limited basket of products and inconsistent im terms of methodology of sampling from nation to nation and even source to source within that nation depending on who you go to for your inflation statistics as their are government bodies that work it out and independent bodies. If I had a penny for every time someone has looked at inflation data that doesn't even track the product they're talking about and then applies that data to a specific item to draw a conclusion of overpricing without any specifics of the industry involved or unique costs involved I think I'd be quite the weathly man. Inflation statistics are basically useful as a sort of vibe check for your economy to see how things are going in general for a notional average joe consumer of products and services not a guide for where the price of any product should land because even within those products sampled there is a huge diversity of offerings. You can see this from say the price of milk, lets say the inflation figures are derived from tracking the price of coles own brand milk (this is how they do it in a lot of cases they'll select a store and send someone in to price check the milk periodically over the year) coles own brand milk has been kinda stable in price for the last year or so, might have gone up 10 cents or something so the official line we are given is that milk inflation hasn't moved much over the year. That completely discounts all other offerings of milk on the market and the unique dispositions of the suppliers and retailers of those other offerings of milk but it doesn't mean mean that the other milks of offer are overpriced for what they are or what processes produced them(organic vs non organic, small farm vs big, local brand vs nationwide brand etc etc) it just means that the data on the price of milk is incomplete and doesn't reflect the diversity of products on offer. Discussing inflation in relation to something like a video game is even more complicated because we're not just measuring a price point in relation to a carton of liquid we're trying to establish weather something that is deeply nuanced and well, arty, for want of a better word is overpriced compared to a whole bunch of other artistic works. We also need to remember that our perceptions of value for money and our propensity to find joy in anything and our level of critical assessment of things is not static and shifts around with our life circumstances and we can get quite easily stuck doing things we just don't enjoy as much as we used to because they have some kind of hold over us or we view them as a defining part of our identity and this seems to happen to a lot of people with video games, I seen so many players of games pigeon hole themselves into being stuck playing certain genres or even specific titles only to end up in this kinda adversarial rut where they keep engaging with it looong after it's stopped bringing them any real joy or excitement and long after it has the propensity to no matter what a developer does because they're stuck being a World of warcraft guy or an eve online guy or a GTA guy or a dare I say a train sim guy and they want desparately to feel a rush they felt back in the beginning of their journey playing whatever it is and then pin it on the devs, or greed or whatever else as being the reason it's not enjoyable anymore when in reality it's more that they are just not enjoying it that much anymore and can't bring themselves out of the situation and realise the spark is gone on their end or the circumstance that made it enjoyable or feel like a worthwhile use of time or money regardless of the ever present glaring flaws we can all find in anything is gone.
Holy moly, that's a long comment. I agree and understand that inflation is more nuanced in its calculation but I used that because DTG did to justify their own price hikes- I was pointing out that that was not an appropriate justification.
@@thetrainguy4 I think it's an appropriate justification and one we kinda have to take at face value because we lack the the necessary specific insights into their individual business or costs to properly appreciate it because as pointed out when we hear 'inflation' we just go to the national inflation figures of whatever country we are thinking about and use that as our frame of reference for the impact it should have had on the price we see even though that data is wildly inaccurate hence the difference between the inflation calculator figure of $50ish vs the price on steam of $60 or 65ish(going from memory of the video here so forgive me if I'm wrong there) The statement inflation has impacted our prices is entirely true because inflation is a thing and it has impact. the case that cash grabbing has also impacted price is based upon the flawed and incomplete numbers that underlie inflation calculators and is basaically wild speculation born of the misuse of a tool (the calculator) that has very real limitations to the point of rendering it all but a fun gimmick. There's a site out there called measuringworth(dot)com that really digs into these ideas and tries to present some better methodologies that can be used to work out if something is a rip off or not based on some more nuanced(but still limited) data sets that take account of things other than inflation and look at other measures of inflation. End of the day it's not great to default to greed as an explination for something simply because data is lacking, it's best just report what was said and then say data is lacking to go into specifics of this matter.
Kunos Simulazioni achieved more with Assetto Corsa Competizione on Unreal engine 4 in a single product life cycle than what DT could do similarly with TSW3 and/or upcoming TSW4. Which makes you wonder whether DT are simply delaying features that could already be implemented in the latest TSW/Unreal engine release or they are still figuring out how to do it on Unreal 4. I am more inclined to say that it's the former than to accuse someone of being an unskilled game developer.
Agreed in most of your points. I did buy it, and while I am disappointed in their strategy, I still feel to me it was worth it for the new routes, especially Antelope Valley. With the free roam placing tools and scenario editor improvements also being a significant improvement. The former (plus the other two routes) should've been TSW3 DLC, and the latter should've been a free upgrade, but I just view it as a package DLC anyway in this case that was poorly marketed.
I feel your promoting this type of behavior for developers, your the problem. Dove tail is releasing new games where its not needed, its a massive cash grab and those who dont have self control and give in to buying are only promoting developers to continue doing this.
I agree with what you say, but this is a niche market at the end of the day, GTA sells tens of millions, TSW does not. My view, is that you can get the new version on steam for £30. This includes 3 new routes. So £10 a route. I would prefer this to a suibscription charge, we get to keep everything. I don't mind paying £30 a year to support the development, especially when you get new features and routes. Thats less that £3 a month, and after a year you own it outright. I'm sure that Dovetail would rather not have to do this, but if it's out of new releases or change to a subscription model (or worse, bankruptcy), I'm happy to pay for annual new versions. There's still tons to do in TSW3 if you don't want to upgrade.
It is effectively a subscription charge because you cannot buy new routes unless you get TSW4 going forward. You also won't get updates to routes like Southeastern with those behind the TSW4 paywall. It's fine if you want to support them but they shouldn't force players who want to carry on collections to pay a yearly £30 fee. The content should be good enough to sell itself.
They have every right to take as much money as they want for each new route, but the upgrade in versions from 2 -> 3 -> 4 has given very little technical value from what I have seen and it simply looks like a way to get us to pay 2-3 times full prize for the same game. My biggest gripe with the game, aside from the prizing, is the poor optimization and I am not upgrading from my TSW2 until that is fixed.
They refuse to do American steam. Refuse to add Amtrak. Just more Cali, more Britain, more Cali, more Britain, more Cali, more British. It’s very frustrating
Wrong. There's only 3 routes in california. There's freight from all over. Also Germany, Switzerland and France. You've got more in the East Coast (lirr, 2 sections of the nec, harlem). Amtrak already exists in tsw. The problem with the us is that many people want freight and many people want passenger so both have to be pleased. The routes that have both combined are usually limited by licenses. In terms of American steam, it would crumble under the current steam simulation
@@hersheysquirt6526 I mean long distance, with p42’s. Cajon pass should’ve allowed the F7 a super liner set too. It even offers in scenario mode passenger mode but no passenger cars will appear
What's up with the NEC-Trenton update? Heard it got scaled back significantly, and now there's no freight at all? Does anybody know anything about this or have links to source material? Thanks.
Each release of TSW feels like it should have been a patch/update rather than a whole new game. I'm skipping at least 2 releases of this series. My biggest question: Are route stations still ghost towns? Or will my train actually pick up more than a few passengers? (Dovetail) Don't give me that "consoles can't handle the workload" bs. There are much more complicated games out there that run fine. 😂
This is an honest and accurate review, and done so in a professional manner. Train Sim World 4 seems more like another money grab exercise more than anything else. With little, if any attempt to improve over version 2 or 3, and with many missed and ignored opportunities. This may as well be called Train Sim World 2.5 or 3.2 . Transitioning to Unreal engine 5 may present many issues, but it is their only real option if they wish to keep generating new versions of their sim. Train Sim World 4 is boring, the scenery and weather effects, both look ridiculously outdated and fake. Now I realise Train sims are a niche market, and maybe don't have the funds or development teams to create realistic worlds, but if Dovetail keep churning garbage like this out, then it always will be! Train sim 4 is an insult and a slap in the face to the dedicated fans of the franchise who deserve better. Train Sim world needs more competition, i believe many users would flock to this genre if it were done better, just look at the success of MSFS 2020! Imagine a Train Sim that was photo realistic, with photogrammetry scenery and Realtime weather updated on the fly. Imagine if this sim allowed 3rd party content and improvements, we could have a great experience with many parts of teh worlds rail network accurately modelled with realistic trains and scenery. Instead we get lumbered with Dovetail and their 'Drain' sim world 4...Sorry I meant Train Sim World 4!
While I agree with 99% most of your video, I respectfully disagree with your opinion on the ECML route location. With the ECML south route, you are limited in terms of what can be expanded. You can only really go north or the local lines. However from Doncaster you can potentially expand to Edinburgh, the Leeds lines etc. Even from PBO you could then go to King’s Cross. Saying that, I wish they also added the 91 to compliment the route.
Wow, not sure if it was you or somebody else that posted this video to the forums today, but wow it hit a nerve with the DTG bootlicking sheep. Thread got locked within minutes. Not exactly sure what the issue is with the video? People calling it unconstructive nonsense makes no sense at all. You provided well thought out criticisms and how you feel about the game. I've pointed out many of the same things before and keep being yelled at for it. I think the game was nice and was progressing up to a point. Then it all went downhill like their revenues. I was hoping the Focus acquisition would have breathed new life into the franchise and to provide player value like Snowrunner does. Unfortunately I just see more copy / paste greed with lacklustre "features" and a disrespectful dangling of route fixes behind a paywall. Anyhow, you've earned my like and subscribe.
@@thetrainguy4 The title is 'One day this community wakes up, and dtg will be just a memory'. People seemed to think you were the poster fishing for views. Anyhow, it was easy bait for the DTG zombies to come out and defend their masters. The came DTG themselves to lock the thread. They're very sensitive these days about their failing franchise. Ive7been warned about my excessive laughter. 🤣
To an extent your comments were made at the time of TSW 3 that it should of been a simple update to 2 but dovetail have always milked it for every penny even releasing old content with the same bugs it had originally
Dovetail is a declining company people forget they screwed up flight simulator if people will stop buying their products it will send a message maybe asobo should take over like they did with flight simulator
dang - u makin it sound like these cats are con artists, and u did it so convincingly... ur first point lets me know u know how to present a point(s) your trying to make because that alone could have ended the argument....
I have had the game since the 21st and I have not yet been able to try it due to the constant crashes, I am on the Xbox series S, the game on this console is 100 percent broken, and for the record, I have all the previous games with more of 30 routes, 35 to be exact and I have never had any problems, without a doubt they have lost a great customer here , I'm so mad that you couldn't even believe it 🤬
Thank god someone else hates dovetail and their bs ways. Stupidly I bought TSW4 as i was interested to see what had been done and all I can say is its so underwhelming and terrible. Would have been better playing the original TSW 😂 I also wish i could have my money back
That's so true I think dove tails just greedy far as I know iam definitely not buying tsw4 no way iam not falling for that trap again they avent update the graphics sitll look same borning rubbish again until they make better graphics I won't b buying the game no more and less they update graphics 😉
This is the way to do it. People have been suggesting ways for the game to improve on their forums for years and all people are getting is more expensive and lesser content. Vote with your wallet. If TSW4 turns out to be a flop maybe then they'll finally understand.
I'm usually not one to gripe about game devs and their funding, but this sim feels like a constant cash grab, without much effort. The greatest example of an awesome dev, and how they handle their game dev and funding REALLL WEL, is SCS with American Truck Simulator. Those folks no how to take care of the player base. I have no issue paying $12 dollars to show my appreciation, for new huge DLC states, with specific custom assets. They even go back and re-do the older states when they create new tech and assets. Often giving new content for free. They have a map editor included, open to mods, multiplayer, and all this in their own game engine, that allows for a huge open world, and not restricted to smaller map instances. And they are constantly updating that engine. Another mention is DCS World's constant dev, with expansions and new tech with their product. Can we just give an applause for how realistic that game is. Damn! All games should inspire to look and function that well! MSFS does well too. Though I'm not thrilled about a new version for purchase in 2024. But I get it, funding is needed. And as much as its debated, Star Citizen who has expanded tremendously, and will continue, has never required me to pay more for the game since 2013. Dovetail needs to do better. I'll pay for DLC. Loco's, rolling stock, maps. I would even pay a price for a map editor. But lets get real on pricing. And can we talk about the lack of controller support. I mean its a sim for crying out loud. You can't tell me UE doesn't support controllers. I would really like to see TSW succeed. But its hard not to get a little salty. I buy when their is sales, rather than full price. Vote with your wallet, they say.
Because its very existence is bad regardless of how 'good' the game itself is. It's about more than just what's included. It's about how DTG are (ab)using their customer base etc etc.
I am very frustrated with this review and shows a lack of understanding of Games Engines and games development life cycles. I understand why they used UE4.26 and its very sensible. It was the last big release of UE4 - 4.27 came after but was developed in parallel to UE5 so wasn't a big release as resources were directed at 5.0. They will develop on a stable platform so no real need to go to 4.27 and 5.0 is a massive difference with no straightforward conversion. It uses completely different lighting and 3d asset technology (Lumin and Nanite) and I doubt any previous routes / content could be converted practically. So That will be a start again. So I expect them to stick with 4.26 for the foreseeable future otherwise you will all scream like babies. But you really have no idea about Volumetric fog!! Total BS. Yes you need to switch it on and then the hard work starts. There are global settings, then individual settings for lights and particle systems.... Then it all needs optimising as it can be resource hungry . They have done a nice job, both visually and performance wise. I will stop there. but suggest you spend a little more time researching as your comments are not well thought though. I have loads more to say but cant be bothered - if you cant be bothered to research your facts properly then .....
My comment on the engine was more about a lack of necessity for a new game. I don't care which engine they run on, but if it's the same (or even different as RH showed) they should keep the same game too.
No disrespect but you're not happy unless you're trashing dovetail and train Sim World you'd be lost if they went out of business tomorrow then you have nothing to complain about that's what you do complain no disrespect intended I'm just commenting on what I've seen on your videos Alma mum used to say if you can't say nothing nice and don't say anything at all
No disrespect but you sound very arrogant. He isn't "trashing" dovetail in the video, he is providing valid criticism for the game. Everyone has the right to their own opinion about anything. Also the hypothetical situation you provided was, no disrespect, idiotic. Saying "You shouldn't criticise dovetail cus if they were out of business tomorrow it would be over for you" sounds utterly stupid. You are basically saying "You can't have an opinion on things you depend on" . Just think about that. And no, he doesn't just talk crap about dovetail in his videos. He does both. The only reason why you believe he does that is because of availability heuristic (In this context, you purposely only watch the videos where he criticises the game) thus leading you to believe that is all he does. Finally, that quote "If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" is absolutely dumb (No disrespect). It translates to "You can't have an opinion, unless it is for their benefit". I could say the exact same to you. If you don't have anything nice to say, you shouldn't have said anything. So not only are you showing arrogance, you are showing hypocrisy (No disrespect) No disrespect but, everything you said there was just a load of bollocks.
Well said that's all this guy does is moan and criticize DTG, he is never happy, he loathes DTG but i bet he will be the first one to go and buy and play it. I was hoping to see a nice video after last night's stream from Dovetail from this guy but no, just another moaning video, one of very many and i am sure there shall be more to come.
@@dinglejingle6781 You completely ignored what I said. You *chose* to *only* watch the videos where he *criticises* the game. He made many videos where he talked about what he liked about the game. Stop being ignorant.
I could criticise many things about them but I don’t think the comparisons with GTA and Cities Skyline’s is relevant at all. They’re a much larger market, train simulation is very niche. Another thing you should consider is software developers cost a lot of money and their salaries have gone up considerably in the last few years (I work in the industry and hire developers). That money has to come from somewhere. The editor though. Can’t help but think they’ve had their hand forced by SimRail’s promise of one and how well that’s been received, although worryingly the devs have gone very quiet of late. Let’s hope that now there is an editor third parties can get the most out of it.
I fail to see how they're being dodgy. You're still getting 3 new routes for £29.99 as an exsisting customer and new features.They're making a very small profit on their turnover. That could very easily turn into a loss. I'm definitely not a fan of them but I think your criticism is ill informed and unjust. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
The point wasn't really about who did what, it was more to do with how you can take a game forward by creating something different with each subsequent release as opposed to justifying sequels with minimal core updates (similar to what KTR did with the WRC games). In saying that though, I think a better example would have been how the relatively small studios behind the evolution of Spintires (into Mudrunner and then Snowrunner) and Farming Simulator turned a niche product with very humble beginnings into an extremely lucrative franchise. DTG had that opportunity but chose not to exploit it.
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | ครอบครัวสะท้านทุ่ง "นางบี & อ้ายสติ๊ก"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A1rhYcxxNtA/mqdefault.jpg)
IF YOU WERE SENT HERE FROM THE FORUMS!!
I did not create the thread in question, and agree it was very arrogant. Sorry for any confusion!
This company had my respect, because I bought all the content of train world 2 and was very upset to find out train sim world 3 was coming out, but the company reassured me, all my bought content can be carried over from two to three with out having to buy it over again much respect 😍🥰
@@chriscangelosi9438 Because it is the same game.
Thank you for this video. What is most upsetting to me is, once again the previous version will be abandoned along with the older content.
It will be made compatible across the games. For eg, East coastway and GWR are cross compatible across 1-2-3. I bet money it will be the same for 4 too, aswell as converting already released dlc too.
@@lewis8407 maybe know what you're talking about before embarrassing yourself...
If you buy the new game all the DLC you already own will be available to Download for Free.
@@thegreenguy5555 they're talking about it never being fixed
Excellent video. Personally, I think the drop in annual profits might have a lot to do with TSW2 and TSW3 both been on gamepass, with DTG hoping that those who took it for free might be more inclined to splash out on multiple DLC's to balance the books. It's blatantly obvious this ploy failed miserably though because you only have to look at the bulk off the achievement stats for these addons to see that barely 1-2% of the game's userbase have managed to complete the default 'finish one service' achievement, so that in itself suggests that 98% of available customers weren't as stupid as DTG thought they would be! They know that £30 will buy them an awful lot more than 25-50 miles of average quality railway tracks. I bought physical copies of Dakar Desert Rally, Train life and Raiden IV all on day one....and all less than £30 each. Oh, and Transport fever 2 cost a mere £2 more than the godawful Midland Mainline!
TSW2 was my last core purchase (#3 was played on gamepass with zero addons bought for it) and I have no intentions whatsoever to buy into TSW4...
When I got TSW3 with loads of DLC, and a 100% contribution to charity on humblebundle for less than £10, I knew that new announcement would be for another cash grabbing new game.
there's nothing wrong with creating cheap bundles on hb. Other games have cheap bundles too every once in a while
I went the same route. Last purchase was TSW2 and just played TSW3 content off GamePass. Played it for maybe 3 to 4 hours total even though it was free. Terrible optimisation and god awful menu colours kept me away. Once I heard that TSW4 would be just the same optimisation wise as the last I was already out before it began. DTG's philosophy for the past couple of releases seems to be "hey click this" in Unreal editor and then sell it as a new game with all new features. Pathetic, but for them it's a cheap way of making a buck off impressionable youth and their legions of zombie sheep.
@@StrikeEagle78 Yeah, I 100% agree. Also, it's good to see we share the same views on the forums because there's way too many rose--tinted folk out there who fail to see the harm that DTG's policies are causing - especially with the 'washing their hands of unresolved issues' attitude that they've adopted with TSW3....and the promised but never received fixes for TSW2.
@@justme_7145 they're a company run by clowns that sold themselves off when revenues started drying up. Focus must be desperate too.
They should go ahead and release tsw5 teaser trailer now
I think one of the main issues is lack of competition. There is no impetus on DTG to fix things after they are released, or to not go down this cash grabbing route to look after the community, because where else are we realistically going to go
I bet that if Microsoft got back into train sims...it would be breathtaking.
This is the sort of content we need for Train Sim World. We need more constructive criticism
There isn't any significant change. Upgrade to TSW4 should be free as TSC.
A truly excellent and thorough analysis. Thanks.
people also need to remember Dovetail seems to play safe - always a UK - german -US route- why not Holland - Spain - why does it have to be iconic - the answer is sales and marketability. If it doesnt sell, it's pointless making it. They should follow MSFS - update the routes you payfor - free loco's for it - scenery changes etc. and each route should have more loco's - more liveries - gets sponsors for the stations etc - costa - starbucks - 1 livery per route makes it a simulator - multiple trains make it real and what we want- so make a game - not a sim.
Agreed on all points, thank you. I would add that 10 years ago the TS Classic modding community, which was growing with routes popping up from all over the world and contained many dedicated talented artists and engineers were told there would be no editor in the upcoming TSW series, leaving content creators high and dry with an outdated simulator and compensation model with no real future ahead.
As we've seen, the switch to Unreal was not a one-company project. They literally needed all hands on deck. So, it's no surprise TSW4 is the fourth lemon of the series. I'm not sure an editor will help at this point. They will find a way to screw that up, too.
The Great Train Robbery
What I will say, is that yes, I am going to get TSW4, but for Christmas. I was rather irked that they announced TSW4 just a year after they released TSW3, which I was fully expecting to run for at least a couple of years like TSW2 did. If however Dovetail announces TSW5 next year, I will probably not get that one, unless something strongly convinces me otherwise......that is my position
I agree with you. But the east coast mainline is meant to go to King's cross
No it's only pbo-don. Kingsx is only an off map destination on the pis because that's what the real thing says
@@potatoman451 I know that
Idk i think its alright, you get 3 routes plus some new stuff for around 50$ USD, not to bad if you look at it as a bundle.
Everything you said about train sim world 4 I agree with you it could be so much better👍
As a former UK train driver myself, I never bought any 'train sim world' games and probably never will, as I don't like companies that scam us [like paradox et al] and have been put off since I bought the old TS and all it's 'dlc's'/'add-ons'.
So another no from me. Rather watch it played on here than buy it myself!
I might grab a copy when it has a 50% discount on steam, but until then TSW 3 will do for me.
It's a clear cash grab by DTG and one I won't be falling for, but having said that I really don't play TSW 3 much anyway it's just something a picked up when it was on sale.
Valid points. I'm surprised you kept this to 9 minutes given the subject.
The thing that the game still stuggers/lags for a 0.5s to load tiles 6 years going is awful.
Just picked up TS4 standard for $18 for Xbox S. Must say while I basically like it, its like a 15 yr old game graphically.
They've been at this since they started. But tsw 3 to tsw 4 release was absolutely mental. I won't be buying 4, and next one I will buy will have to have significant upgrade on previous release.
The fact that they didn't do kings cross says it all. It's like they don't know about trains and how to utilize rolling stock already modelled, it's insulting to their customers.
It's free on Xbox Game Pass and includes 3 route DLCs. Of course, there are 91 other DLCs in the Xbox Store to purchase (optionally). They seem fairly reasonably priced (most around the £15-20 mark, some less, some more).
What they need to do is ditch the gen 8 consoles so they can make UE5 games and be able to keep to a game for more than 11 months, because they don’t have to adapt an older engine to look good on new consoles and pc
Don't worry. DTG is claiming they're working on new features in response to one star reviews on Xbox lol.
Inflation figures are kinda not great for figuring out what the price of something should be today relative to the price of something a year ago, this is because of how inflation is measured which is a whole mess based on a limited basket of products and inconsistent im terms of methodology of sampling from nation to nation and even source to source within that nation depending on who you go to for your inflation statistics as their are government bodies that work it out and independent bodies. If I had a penny for every time someone has looked at inflation data that doesn't even track the product they're talking about and then applies that data to a specific item to draw a conclusion of overpricing without any specifics of the industry involved or unique costs involved I think I'd be quite the weathly man.
Inflation statistics are basically useful as a sort of vibe check for your economy to see how things are going in general for a notional average joe consumer of products and services not a guide for where the price of any product should land because even within those products sampled there is a huge diversity of offerings. You can see this from say the price of milk, lets say the inflation figures are derived from tracking the price of coles own brand milk (this is how they do it in a lot of cases they'll select a store and send someone in to price check the milk periodically over the year) coles own brand milk has been kinda stable in price for the last year or so, might have gone up 10 cents or something so the official line we are given is that milk inflation hasn't moved much over the year. That completely discounts all other offerings of milk on the market and the unique dispositions of the suppliers and retailers of those other offerings of milk but it doesn't mean mean that the other milks of offer are overpriced for what they are or what processes produced them(organic vs non organic, small farm vs big, local brand vs nationwide brand etc etc) it just means that the data on the price of milk is incomplete and doesn't reflect the diversity of products on offer.
Discussing inflation in relation to something like a video game is even more complicated because we're not just measuring a price point in relation to a carton of liquid we're trying to establish weather something that is deeply nuanced and well, arty, for want of a better word is overpriced compared to a whole bunch of other artistic works.
We also need to remember that our perceptions of value for money and our propensity to find joy in anything and our level of critical assessment of things is not static and shifts around with our life circumstances and we can get quite easily stuck doing things we just don't enjoy as much as we used to because they have some kind of hold over us or we view them as a defining part of our identity and this seems to happen to a lot of people with video games, I seen so many players of games pigeon hole themselves into being stuck playing certain genres or even specific titles only to end up in this kinda adversarial rut where they keep engaging with it looong after it's stopped bringing them any real joy or excitement and long after it has the propensity to no matter what a developer does because they're stuck being a World of warcraft guy or an eve online guy or a GTA guy or a dare I say a train sim guy and they want desparately to feel a rush they felt back in the beginning of their journey playing whatever it is and then pin it on the devs, or greed or whatever else as being the reason it's not enjoyable anymore when in reality it's more that they are just not enjoying it that much anymore and can't bring themselves out of the situation and realise the spark is gone on their end or the circumstance that made it enjoyable or feel like a worthwhile use of time or money regardless of the ever present glaring flaws we can all find in anything is gone.
Holy moly, that's a long comment. I agree and understand that inflation is more nuanced in its calculation but I used that because DTG did to justify their own price hikes- I was pointing out that that was not an appropriate justification.
@@thetrainguy4 I think it's an appropriate justification and one we kinda have to take at face value because we lack the the necessary specific insights into their individual business or costs to properly appreciate it because as pointed out when we hear 'inflation' we just go to the national inflation figures of whatever country we are thinking about and use that as our frame of reference for the impact it should have had on the price we see even though that data is wildly inaccurate hence the difference between the inflation calculator figure of $50ish vs the price on steam of $60 or 65ish(going from memory of the video here so forgive me if I'm wrong there)
The statement inflation has impacted our prices is entirely true because inflation is a thing and it has impact. the case that cash grabbing has also impacted price is based upon the flawed and incomplete numbers that underlie inflation calculators and is basaically wild speculation born of the misuse of a tool (the calculator) that has very real limitations to the point of rendering it all but a fun gimmick.
There's a site out there called measuringworth(dot)com that really digs into these ideas and tries to present some better methodologies that can be used to work out if something is a rip off or not based on some more nuanced(but still limited) data sets that take account of things other than inflation and look at other measures of inflation.
End of the day it's not great to default to greed as an explination for something simply because data is lacking, it's best just report what was said and then say data is lacking to go into specifics of this matter.
Kunos Simulazioni achieved more with Assetto Corsa Competizione on Unreal engine 4 in a single product life cycle than what DT could do similarly with TSW3 and/or upcoming TSW4.
Which makes you wonder whether DT are simply delaying features that could already be implemented in the latest TSW/Unreal engine release or they are still figuring out how to do it on Unreal 4. I am more inclined to say that it's the former than to accuse someone of being an unskilled game developer.
Agreed in most of your points. I did buy it, and while I am disappointed in their strategy, I still feel to me it was worth it for the new routes, especially Antelope Valley. With the free roam placing tools and scenario editor improvements also being a significant improvement. The former (plus the other two routes) should've been TSW3 DLC, and the latter should've been a free upgrade, but I just view it as a package DLC anyway in this case that was poorly marketed.
I feel your promoting this type of behavior for developers, your the problem. Dove tail is releasing new games where its not needed, its a massive cash grab and those who dont have self control and give in to buying are only promoting developers to continue doing this.
I picked up Tsw3 for £6, just before it was dropped from Gamepass, I'm skipping Tsw4
I think much of the problem is the fact they have little to no competition in the train sim community.
I agree with what you say, but this is a niche market at the end of the day, GTA sells tens of millions, TSW does not. My view, is that you can get the new version on steam for £30. This includes 3 new routes. So £10 a route. I would prefer this to a suibscription charge, we get to keep everything. I don't mind paying £30 a year to support the development, especially when you get new features and routes. Thats less that £3 a month, and after a year you own it outright. I'm sure that Dovetail would rather not have to do this, but if it's out of new releases or change to a subscription model (or worse, bankruptcy), I'm happy to pay for annual new versions. There's still tons to do in TSW3 if you don't want to upgrade.
It is effectively a subscription charge because you cannot buy new routes unless you get TSW4 going forward. You also won't get updates to routes like Southeastern with those behind the TSW4 paywall.
It's fine if you want to support them but they shouldn't force players who want to carry on collections to pay a yearly £30 fee. The content should be good enough to sell itself.
They have every right to take as much money as they want for each new route, but the upgrade in versions from 2 -> 3 -> 4 has given very little technical value from what I have seen and it simply looks like a way to get us to pay 2-3 times full prize for the same game. My biggest gripe with the game, aside from the prizing, is the poor optimization and I am not upgrading from my TSW2 until that is fixed.
They refuse to do American steam. Refuse to add Amtrak. Just more Cali, more Britain, more Cali, more Britain, more Cali, more British. It’s very frustrating
Wrong. There's only 3 routes in california. There's freight from all over. Also Germany, Switzerland and France. You've got more in the East Coast (lirr, 2 sections of the nec, harlem). Amtrak already exists in tsw. The problem with the us is that many people want freight and many people want passenger so both have to be pleased. The routes that have both combined are usually limited by licenses. In terms of American steam, it would crumble under the current steam simulation
What do you mean? They already have Amtrak… they have a bunch of routes in the northeast US too… but yea, US steam would be nice, not happening tho
@@hersheysquirt6526 I mean long distance, with p42’s. Cajon pass should’ve allowed the F7 a super liner set too. It even offers in scenario mode passenger mode but no passenger cars will appear
Bruh the livery creator is madness, i cant even create a damn livery properly , livery creator is unplayable.
If EA and others do it cant blame them for doing it ,minimal effort just copy and paste and stick a number on it .
What's up with the NEC-Trenton update? Heard it got scaled back significantly, and now there's no freight at all? Does anybody know anything about this or have links to source material? Thanks.
Yeah JD quietly revealed there won’t be any freight
@@thetrainguy4 Bummer. Total bummer.
@@thetrainguy4would we get new trains on train sim world 4
Each release of TSW feels like it should have been a patch/update rather than a whole new game. I'm skipping at least 2 releases of this series. My biggest question: Are route stations still ghost towns? Or will my train actually pick up more than a few passengers? (Dovetail) Don't give me that "consoles can't handle the workload" bs. There are much more complicated games out there that run fine. 😂
Thats the way dovetail do if. Is same with train simulator.
The TSW 4 logo reminds me so much of sim City 😂
Definitely one of your best criticism videos yet!
Thanks!
Tbh I think £30 is a tad steep for a route
Yep
This is an honest and accurate review, and done so in a professional manner. Train Sim World 4 seems more like another money grab exercise more than anything else. With little, if any attempt to improve over version 2 or 3, and with many missed and ignored opportunities. This may as well be called Train Sim World 2.5 or 3.2 .
Transitioning to Unreal engine 5 may present many issues, but it is their only real option if they wish to keep generating new versions of their sim.
Train Sim World 4 is boring, the scenery and weather effects, both look ridiculously outdated and fake.
Now I realise Train sims are a niche market, and maybe don't have the funds or development teams to create realistic worlds, but if Dovetail keep churning garbage like this out, then it always will be! Train sim 4 is an insult and a slap in the face to the dedicated fans of the franchise who deserve better.
Train Sim world needs more competition, i believe many users would flock to this genre if it were done better, just look at the success of MSFS 2020! Imagine a Train Sim that was photo realistic, with photogrammetry scenery and Realtime weather updated on the fly. Imagine if this sim allowed 3rd party content and improvements, we could have a great experience with many parts of teh worlds rail network accurately modelled with realistic trains and scenery. Instead we get lumbered with Dovetail and their 'Drain' sim world 4...Sorry I meant Train Sim World 4!
While I agree with 99% most of your video, I respectfully disagree with your opinion on the ECML route location. With the ECML south route, you are limited in terms of what can be expanded. You can only really go north or the local lines. However from Doncaster you can potentially expand to Edinburgh, the Leeds lines etc. Even from PBO you could then go to King’s Cross. Saying that, I wish they also added the 91 to compliment the route.
Route expansions are off the cards for now so that's not really a concern
Ahh right fairs
You need to have the volume up a bit.
Nice vid though!
Wow, not sure if it was you or somebody else that posted this video to the forums today, but wow it hit a nerve with the DTG bootlicking sheep. Thread got locked within minutes. Not exactly sure what the issue is with the video? People calling it unconstructive nonsense makes no sense at all. You provided well thought out criticisms and how you feel about the game. I've pointed out many of the same things before and keep being yelled at for it. I think the game was nice and was progressing up to a point. Then it all went downhill like their revenues. I was hoping the Focus acquisition would have breathed new life into the franchise and to provide player value like Snowrunner does. Unfortunately I just see more copy / paste greed with lacklustre "features" and a disrespectful dangling of route fixes behind a paywall. Anyhow, you've earned my like and subscribe.
No definitely not me!
I'll have to have a look at that lmfao
@@thetrainguy4 The title is 'One day this community wakes up, and dtg will be just a memory'. People seemed to think you were the poster fishing for views. Anyhow, it was easy bait for the DTG zombies to come out and defend their masters. The came DTG themselves to lock the thread. They're very sensitive these days about their failing franchise. Ive7been warned about my excessive laughter. 🤣
@@StrikeEagle78 Yes I*'ve read it, that was painful!
To an extent your comments were made at the time of TSW 3 that it should of been a simple update to 2 but dovetail have always milked it for every penny even releasing old content with the same bugs it had originally
Still getting the game because I have a soft spot for the rotem cab car
Dovetail is a declining company people forget they screwed up flight simulator if people will stop buying their products it will send a message maybe asobo should take over like they did with flight simulator
I wish is Australia make train cool
Maybe you should work for them and help push for improvements
I live on the other side of the world lol
dang - u makin it sound like these cats are con artists, and u did it so convincingly... ur first point lets me know u know how to present a point(s) your trying to make because that alone could have ended the argument....
I have had the game since the 21st and I have not yet been able to try it due to the constant crashes, I am on the Xbox series S, the game on this console is 100 percent broken, and for the record, I have all the previous games with more of 30 routes, 35 to be exact and I have never had any problems, without a doubt they have lost a great customer here , I'm so mad that you couldn't even believe it 🤬
Thank god someone else hates dovetail and their bs ways.
Stupidly I bought TSW4 as i was interested to see what had been done and all I can say is its so underwhelming and terrible. Would have been better playing the original TSW 😂
I also wish i could have my money back
Be pirated like the last game then argh, avast me hearties!
You probably still paid too much 😂
That's so true I think dove tails just greedy far as I know iam definitely not buying tsw4 no way iam not falling for that trap again they avent update the graphics sitll look same borning rubbish again until they make better graphics I won't b buying the game no more and less they update graphics 😉
This is the way to do it. People have been suggesting ways for the game to improve on their forums for years and all people are getting is more expensive and lesser content. Vote with your wallet. If TSW4 turns out to be a flop maybe then they'll finally understand.
DtG are the worst just like EA
Yet I already got tsw4 as it's cheap in my country and no where near the overpriced as in Europe or the USA
They aren't the worst. That's an overstatement.
They are a game company after all, their job is to exploit and make money.
Just LOL @worst than ea, you DTG haters are as cringe as the fanboys
Where's your country that it's cheaper than the US and Europe?
@@jazzdub4958 It's 14USD for standard, 21USD for deluxe and 33USD for special in russia, so probably there.
I'm usually not one to gripe about game devs and their funding, but this sim feels like a constant cash grab, without much effort.
The greatest example of an awesome dev, and how they handle their game dev and funding REALLL WEL, is SCS with American Truck Simulator.
Those folks no how to take care of the player base. I have no issue paying $12 dollars to show my appreciation, for new huge DLC states, with specific custom assets. They even go back and re-do the older states when they create new tech and assets. Often giving new content for free. They have a map editor included, open to mods, multiplayer, and all this in their own game engine, that allows for a huge open world, and not restricted to smaller map instances. And they are constantly updating that engine.
Another mention is DCS World's constant dev, with expansions and new tech with their product.
Can we just give an applause for how realistic that game is. Damn!
All games should inspire to look and function that well!
MSFS does well too. Though I'm not thrilled about a new version for purchase in 2024. But I get it, funding is needed.
And as much as its debated, Star Citizen who has expanded tremendously, and will continue, has never required me to pay more for the game since 2013.
Dovetail needs to do better.
I'll pay for DLC. Loco's, rolling stock, maps.
I would even pay a price for a map editor.
But lets get real on pricing.
And can we talk about the lack of controller support. I mean its a sim for crying out loud. You can't tell me UE doesn't support controllers.
I would really like to see TSW succeed. But its hard not to get a little salty.
I buy when their is sales, rather than full price.
Vote with your wallet, they say.
so long as people keep buying it, they will keep copy and pasting the same game
I agree with you
Train sim world 4 aint out yet though so why dissing it lol
Because its very existence is bad regardless of how 'good' the game itself is. It's about more than just what's included. It's about how DTG are (ab)using their customer base etc etc.
I am very frustrated with this review and shows a lack of understanding of Games Engines and games development life cycles. I understand why they used UE4.26 and its very sensible. It was the last big release of UE4 - 4.27 came after but was developed in parallel to UE5 so wasn't a big release as resources were directed at 5.0. They will develop on a stable platform so no real need to go to 4.27 and 5.0 is a massive difference with no straightforward conversion. It uses completely different lighting and 3d asset technology (Lumin and Nanite) and I doubt any previous routes / content could be converted practically. So That will be a start again. So I expect them to stick with 4.26 for the foreseeable future otherwise you will all scream like babies.
But you really have no idea about Volumetric fog!! Total BS. Yes you need to switch it on and then the hard work starts. There are global settings, then individual settings for lights and particle systems.... Then it all needs optimising as it can be resource hungry . They have done a nice job, both visually and performance wise.
I will stop there. but suggest you spend a little more time researching as your comments are not well thought though.
I have loads more to say but cant be bothered - if you cant be bothered to research your facts properly then .....
My comment on the engine was more about a lack of necessity for a new game. I don't care which engine they run on, but if it's the same (or even different as RH showed) they should keep the same game too.
No disrespect but you're not happy unless you're trashing dovetail and train Sim World you'd be lost if they went out of business tomorrow then you have nothing to complain about that's what you do complain no disrespect intended I'm just commenting on what I've seen on your videos Alma mum used to say if you can't say nothing nice and don't say anything at all
No disrespect but you sound very arrogant.
He isn't "trashing" dovetail in the video, he is providing valid criticism for the game. Everyone has the right to their own opinion about anything.
Also the hypothetical situation you provided was, no disrespect, idiotic.
Saying "You shouldn't criticise dovetail cus if they were out of business tomorrow it would be over for you" sounds utterly stupid. You are basically saying "You can't have an opinion on things you depend on" . Just think about that.
And no, he doesn't just talk crap about dovetail in his videos. He does both. The only reason why you believe he does that is because of availability heuristic (In this context, you purposely only watch the videos where he criticises the game) thus leading you to believe that is all he does.
Finally, that quote "If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" is absolutely dumb (No disrespect). It translates to "You can't have an opinion, unless it is for their benefit". I could say the exact same to you. If you don't have anything nice to say, you shouldn't have said anything. So not only are you showing arrogance, you are showing hypocrisy (No disrespect)
No disrespect but, everything you said there was just a load of bollocks.
This is ridiculous. He did a video on what he likes about the game. He is just saying what he doesn't like about the game and has every right to do so
Well said that's all this guy does is moan and criticize DTG, he is never happy, he loathes DTG but i bet he will be the first one to go and buy and play it. I was hoping to see a nice video after last night's stream from Dovetail from this guy but no, just another moaning video, one of very many and i am sure there shall be more to come.
@@dinglejingle6781So saying what he likes about tsw4 doesn't matter? Clearly you don't watch his videos
@@dinglejingle6781 You completely ignored what I said. You *chose* to *only* watch the videos where he *criticises* the game. He made many videos where he talked about what he liked about the game.
Stop being ignorant.
Do yourself a favour and stop playing TSW. This game isn’t for you.
Wow super helpful advice thanks 👍
astonishing feedback I love it so much bro 😮😮😮😮😅😅😐😀😀😀
Don’t care still buying it lmao
I could criticise many things about them but I don’t think the comparisons with GTA and Cities Skyline’s is relevant at all. They’re a much larger market, train simulation is very niche. Another thing you should consider is software developers cost a lot of money and their salaries have gone up considerably in the last few years (I work in the industry and hire developers). That money has to come from somewhere. The editor though. Can’t help but think they’ve had their hand forced by SimRail’s promise of one and how well that’s been received, although worryingly the devs have gone very quiet of late. Let’s hope that now there is an editor third parties can get the most out of it.
DTG still turn a healthy profit- as explored in this video.
Being small is no reason to be dodgy with your customers re sequels.
I fail to see how they're being dodgy. You're still getting 3 new routes for £29.99 as an exsisting customer and new features.They're making a very small profit on their turnover. That could very easily turn into a loss. I'm definitely not a fan of them but I think your criticism is ill informed and unjust. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
Dodgy? By re-releasing the same game for the fourth time in a row?
The point wasn't really about who did what, it was more to do with how you can take a game forward by creating something different with each subsequent release as opposed to justifying sequels with minimal core updates (similar to what KTR did with the WRC games). In saying that though, I think a better example would have been how the relatively small studios behind the evolution of Spintires (into Mudrunner and then Snowrunner) and Farming Simulator turned a niche product with very humble beginnings into an extremely lucrative franchise. DTG had that opportunity but chose not to exploit it.