What if Thrawn Survived and Led the Empire?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- What if those pesky space whales hadn't carried off thrawn, how would that have changed the course of galactic history.
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Thrawn is so likeable because he wasn't pawn of anyone. He was his own person, he had his goals and ambitions, and had his own way of going through things and and getting them done. Cold, calculating, but not ruthless and brutal. Fair and understanding.
Phenomenal character.
Jordan Miranda I know most people were Thrawn fans because of the Zahm trilogy (which is some beautiful Star Wars). But Rebels is where I was introduced to him and even in Rebels he is such a top notch character
I agree with Star Wars Corner. I thought he was done better then what he could have been. A little less brutal and the ending kinda made sense because he was taken out a way he could not predict and thats how he was defeated in legends as well.
I wonder what his relationship with the emperor was like
@@StarWarsCorner Couldn't agree more. I was introduced before in the comics, but they carried him into the canon really well.
Star wars corner, u r so right
The empire wouldn't have been as evil as it was. Palp was a phyco as so was Vader and Tarken. Thrawn was cold calculating genius, wasn't evil. It would have been pretty interesting
Ur talking ABOUT ANAKIN WHO ACTUALLY LED THE 501ST LEGION AND DIDN A GOOD JOB
THE 5O1ST WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE EMPIRE
All hail ani
If the Galactic Empire is "Nazis in space" then Thrawn is their Rommel.
@@Noverian_ are you comparing ani to vader? I hope you realize they are completely different people mentally..
@@zelithfang2365 no there same person ani was a kid anakin grew up around clones and the Palatine offered him darth sidious then the dualed on mustfa (obi one/anakin) Palatine got him and he became darth vader fyi same person diffrent ambitions
Again we did see what would have happened in the Old thrawn trilogy. You should read them, they’re fantastic.
Thrawn is a great foil for "the good guys" because he's not really a villain. He's one of the good guys too, he just works for Empire rather than the rebels. If the Empire had more Trawns, there'd not be as much to rebel against.
The legends Thrawn was even more impressive. Timothy Zahn did a great job developing his character. The Thrawn trilogy is a must read!
OG Thrawn was impressive, MOST IMPRESSIVE!
Timothy Shan’s creating of him is what made Star Wars what it is now
Timothy Zahn interpretation of Mitth'raw'nuruodo is the reason I love his character so much. I think Dave Filoni didn't quite capture him in the same light. They two totally different characters.
“It’s the ultimate tragedy in Star Wars, if you ask me”
*Sad Darth Plagueis noises*
I love that was about to post but have you heard of the tragedy of Darth plagueis the wise
@@andrewcardone7228[inhales] Same
Thrawn can probably beat both Admiral Ackbar and Admiral Trench if he has enough prep time like Batman.
And every moment Thrawn is drawing breathe is prep time.
and thrawn would beat batman also all he has to do is learn about Martha
@@villekuronen6242 the Martha strategy. The only one to beat Batman.
@@shawn6860 only way to get through batman's plotarmor
All 5 mins of Google search
My ELA teacher told my class to write an essay about what villain would do on their day off. I chose Thrawn, the best Imperial officer, and the one villain who doesn't take days off.
Only an hour break to look at art and form they strategy to beat his enemy!
Tell me you still have that essay, because I would very much like to read it.
Thrawn: "There are things in the universe that are simply and purely evil. A warrior does not seek to understand them, or to compromise with them. He seeks only to obliterate them."
Only from a certain point of view.
Also Thrawn: *joins the space nazis*
@Darrell Lai I mean, to be fair he was sent there by the chiss to ascertain the threat the empire posed to the chiss and then, if possible, form diplomatic ties, I'd say he did this pretty well, and until the death star the worst the empire had done was slavery and a few genocides, which I'm sure the chiss have done.
@@mitchell3593 I only read the first trilogy that was published even before the prequels were released.
This was way before we had all these channels who obsess on the military aspect of Star Wars
I do like him as a character (for a facist) however there were a lot of times when Thrawns’s tactical genius would be either seemingly just mind reading his opponents by staring at sculptures intensely, or just using magic words like saying “all ships, attack pattern base delta zero!”
EDIT….. also if genocide and slavery are just minor things, what is an evil empire?
@Darrell Lai genocide on a galactic scale not limited to single planets like genosis, mandalore.
Or empire like the sith empires of old, they aren't really comparable with the empire
Also thrawn wasn't a fascist, fascists don't exist outside our reality
We need a “*Thrawn*” that is very *good.* Who would take the torch of our gestalt of Alexander, Napoleon, and others.
Palpatine: DEATH STAR THRAWN: No, study your enemy.
Yes let's mix all of the warrior leaders together and make a supreme commander........... OH SHIT ITS SERPENTOR!
Legends thrown was that good
So good that even years after his death, rumors of his return sent the new republic into a panic
Thrawn: Leads Empire
Sheeve: Wait you weren't suppose to do that
I think he would've been all for Thrawn leading. Grand Admiral is a higher position than almost any other. Higher than Grand Moff. Thrawn held Lothal because it was a very valuable asset for the Empire.
@@DaleESkywalker bro its a joke
@Lewis Lightfoot in legends after the battle of Endor Thrawn lead the imperial remnant and was very successful until he was assassinated by his own bodyguards.
@@generalgrievous5615, text has no inflection of humor or sarcasm. Comments like this need to be avoided.
I see this post and think
*Thrawn takes 200 planets by dawn*
Thrawn: so do you want me to give them back?
Imagine a Star Wars with well crafted villains that have true motivations other than "we are the bad guys".
That would take " real " writers, and Disney does not employ those types of people at the moment. Clone Wars had them but not Rebels, Rebels had a few good moments but it was lacking. But they were trying to keep the PG-13 rating.
Why, oh WHY did Vader just let Canan and Ezra get away soo easily so many times is just sad.? " When you have your cyborg hand around both of your prey's wrists, you brake them !"
kris palermo Clone Wars writers are the bomb, actually getting into issues with the humanity of the clones, justification of the separatists, and the protectors becoming the oppressors
LOL I can't think of Disney "villans" as anything but a joke in a bad get up like animated Jafar!
@@krispalermo8133 because they have the best armor in any reality.............
PLOT ARMOR!
@@nickwagner6545 clone wars is in HD3D and rebels is 2D at best (good guys win in the end)
The sequel trilogy should have been the og thrawn trilogy, change my mind
@Pedro Kantor You are aware that those books are also canon in EU?
They would of ruined him, would of made him be defeated by something cute and/or annoying. There would also be bad writing against him by making the hero beat him with lousy tactics.
I have the exact same opinion
Remaining hopeful for a Thrawn-centered Disney Plus TV show (especially since the success of Clone Wars Season 7 and the Mandalorian are helping keep Star Wars interest alive).
Agreed
Cool video but Thrawn(canon version) is still alive and missing in action. So it should be Thrawn escaped from the Space Whales and return back to Imperial space then command the Empire.
Since Disney is the new canon, different alternate time line, Thrawn may not be killed off with a dagger threw the back into his heart.
Man behind Thrawn," Excuse me, but Lady Vader will like to talk with you now, sir."
@@krispalermo8133 DAMN RUHK!
“But it was so…. Artistically done”
Have you heard of the tragedy of Admiral Thrawn? I thought not. Admiral Thrawn was a master tactician, so calculated and wise that he could think 8 steps ahead... He had such knowledge of battle strategy that he managed to save the Chiss, and potentially, almost the empire. He was so intelligent... that his only fear was losing a battle, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, little did he know, he was about to face his biggest enemy of his career. It's ironic actually... he was the greatest tactician who ever lived, defeating countless enemies, but he couldn't save himself from space whales.
Only watched the opening so far and agree...Thrawn was an amazing and interesting character in the EU and had a great effect on the Galaxy even after he died ( his protege who's name I can never spell right went on to be a super badass himself ) and I was really happy when I first heard he was in Rebels and thus was canon again... until I saw the episodes he was in and I was like 'Who is this guy? Some random Chiss took Thrawn's name and rank? Did they even read the books or ask Zahn for tips on writing him? Apparently not...'
True. He was an absolute moron in that show. And randomly killing subordinates like a pathetic wannabe Vader made it even worse
@@tilltronje1623 Right? in the books he did give second chances and/or was reasonable when there was failure. He didn't just arbitrarily kill people.
*_Thrawn's not dead._*
This is Disney. They have killed smart male characters for less. Lol!
@@shawn6860, your perception of this situation is skewed by listening to Alan. In Legends, Thrawn was killed by his own men. In canon, he's still alive.
** It's suspected he's still alive.
@Bob Mukarelli you clearly didnt read it. it leads right up to the rebels series finale
@@DaleESkywalker no, but I see how Disney thinks so I would not put it past them to kill him off or have them screw him over somehow.
As it is he is popular so chances are good for our boy in blue.
Thrawn at Yavin: Launch the ties. All 7200 of them.
" Hell Yeah ! ! "
☝🏻And fire the Death Star through* the gas planet Yavin 1and wipe out Yavin 4. 💥
@@matthewjay660 No, just blast the gas giant. There is no way that the rebel base would survive that.
@@matthewjay660 that's an idea bust the gas giant and launch the moon into that sun.
TL;DW answer:
Thrawn would have outplayed and outgambitted all of his enemies, the Vong would be screwed, and Palpatine would be impressed.
How? He didn't have any art to draw a battle plan from.
@@brianjohnson5272 He’d probably know all he needed to by looking at one of their warriors.
@@rhett5058 true the vong body is their "art"
The issue was the weak responsive power of the New Republic
The Vong would’ve been screwed if the ISDs cut off their supply lines/invasion strategy as it was just a stab into the SW galaxy
Thrawn is literally the blue lovechild of Spock and Erwin Rommel
More like having Spock's cold attitude with Erwin's calculating mind.
In retrospect thrawn is the evil conterpart of spock
Could you imagine a love child between Paton and Rommel? 🤔🤯🤯🤯
Why are you using tank commanders when he's a naval officer? Use Bull Halsey and Spock!
He also had the brain of Alan Turing
I liked how they took him out. It was exactly because he was such a military genius and so brilliant hat something so outlandish had to be used. Through out history, the best military commanders have only been beaten by being massive underdogs, or by something they just could predict and thus couldn't counter. That's why I actually loved how they handled beating Thrawn. There was no way even he could have seen that coming.
I think it would have been nice to see Thrawn in a clone wars episode or have him as the final boss rather than Palpatine in the rise of skywalker
It wouldn’t make sense If Thrawn were the final boss, he’s way too competent for the DST
Them removing Thrawn from the region in Rebels was actually good. It fixed the dilemma of what to do with him after the emperor is dead. It leaves the ability to use him in the future without having to answer questions like "hey, where was he during X"
the myth, the man, the legend, MITTH'RAW'NURODO!
Hes truly a badazz. He even bent a jedi master to his will.
He be Mitth’Raw-dogging the competition
>Looks at title
Me: Oh, you mean what happened in canon
Zach Lloyd Disney Canon*
Thrawn wasn't "cut down"... he's MIA, like Ezra.
66th like.
66th like. DEW IT!
If he's alive he should kill Ezra tho. I would gladly toast to that.
@@bobafett9348 I seriously doubt that would be wise. If Sabine and Ahsoka show up to find Ezra dead, Thrawn is in trouble. Besides, killing Ezra is easier said than done.
@@cybersmith_videos Its just a wish. Not something that I expect to have happened.
Thrawn looks a lot like _Richard E Grant…_
The ultimate Disney casting tease.
[We all thought he was, when announced, even you Allen].
Or, you know, you could just cast the guy who voiced him in Rebels. He is pretty good!
It makes me think if Thrawn was commander of the Executor instead of Ozzal, how different the battle of Hoth would be. One big change is Thrawn would have insisted on having Interdictor Cruisers in the fleet.
Oh yeah, Ozzshit
He was a captain in the clone wars
He tried to surrender at least 3 times in one battle and didn’t do shit, no wonder the executor was destroyed
its kinda retarded interdictors arent in pretty much every fleet
SW Rebels did a wonderful job depicting Thrawn so much that Dave Filloni went to Timothy Zhan (The original creator to Thrawn) to let him decide on what he thought about it. Zhan was excited to see his character finally get the spotlight that he deserved. In reality, I think it was for the best to have the space whales carry him off. Thrawn is such a powerful character as it is that it makes more sense to have come back after the Battle of Endor. Let's hope that Disney and Filloni bring Thrawn back in live-action and make him more than just a villain.
I didn't know that Grand Admiral Thrawn starred in tentacle p*rn
Fuck you for putting that image in my twisted brain! 😂😂😂
Bruv, you corrupted by brain
I bet you'd find it on pornhub though I wouldn't want that in my browser history.
Look for Hen Ties instead of hentai 🐔👔.
Cowardly Tie pilots …
Times got hard after Disney took over. He did what he had to to survive. We shouldn't judge him. Lol
It would be awesome if he managed to survive long enough to collect the remaining peaces of the Empire after the destruction on Endor. He would leed the last portions of the Imperial fleet, The Mandalorian for example would be an excellent way to make him appear in a live-action form. I'd love to see him in a respectful form.
Hmm...
@@Erik-uj8ed well this idea aged quite well...
You seem to forget that (Spoiler warning) at the end of the book "Treason", the Emperor told Thrawn to return to Coruscant after he finishes his mission to Lothal, for a personal meeting, with the insinuation that Palpatine was getting pretty sick of Thrawn's shit. The book makes it seem like Thrawn might have been executed by the emperor if the Space Whales hadn't carried him away.
I was so glad to see Thrawn in Rebels, I naively thought they were going to make the show better but alas not so. I mean the Clone Wars so so mature and well done, but Rebels kept on being a complete laugh with having everyone so unrealistically incompetent. Thrawn was the perfect 'villain', someone who was your enemy but not the standard mustache twirling evil villain that's evil cuz he's a one dimensional evil person. Thrawn deserved better than to be in Rebels, only the books are canon for me *forcefully hits head against the wall to forget the end of Thrawn in the show*
"A villan twirling his mustache is easy to spot. Yet a villan who clothes themselves in good deeds is the greatest villan." Paraphrased from captain Picard to Worf.
For those of us who played the old pc games on floppy discs, we remember the when the tie defenders became available...
The love of piloting one... and the hate of being against them
Thrawn did have a blind spot for _the competence and loyalty of_ his underlings and fellow imperials.
He didn't realise that Admiral Konstatine was a complete tool and glory hound.
If Thrawn had followed imperial culture and protocols in that respect he would've had him dealt with earlier, or even just give a direct order to Konstatine's crew to relieve him of command, by blaster if necessary as soon as he deviated.
And in legends he definately had poor judgement in choice of bodyguards…
Thrawn just wasn't as good at treachery as other high ranking imperials, probably because he got to his position purely by ability, without any backstabbing. Which meant he wasn't as good at defending against it.
He was vulnerable in that department, and in the long term his only real hope lay in the fact that imperials more devious in politics than him would champion him and watch his back, since they felt safer with him in charge than anyone else.
Having Thrawn as your commander was a lot less stressful than having Vader as your direct superior.
You'd protect Vader from treachery because if Vader found out he'd kill you for not stopping it.
You'd protect Thrawn cause he would try to not get you killed, and would tolerate even bad luck on your behalf if you had made a honest attempt.
But without the protection of the Emperor, Thrawn would have had to face down other ambitious imperials… apparently he just didn't spend enough time *_admiring Imperial Art._*
yeah everyone says it's plot armor but it actually makes sense that thrawn's biggest weakness is imperial politics and infighting, and that is what leads to his failings in rebels (minus the space while fiasco).
@@spaceman_spiff2391 To be honest even with his study he probably couldn't predict intervention of The Daughter.
He did not know that leia turned the noghri agianst him
I think the new thrawn trilogy starting in June might give more insight into why he was disdainful of imperial politics. I'm of the opinion that the Chiss simply didn't go in for that sort of maneuvering amongst themselves. Which makes sense when you think about their long war with the Grysk. Don't get me wrong, they undoubtedly have politics of their own but the culture itself is likely to be far more meritocratic than the Empire. So it would stand to reason he'd be unused to treacherous behavior from his own side while expecting it from his enemies.
@@Loneguy22 I agree with that. On top of that he consider Empire as a tool for his own fight with Grysk/Vong, so he wasn't really interested about positions and power itself. Until Emperor has same goal his back was mostly covered.
Allen: what if Thrawn survived and led the empire?
Jon Favreau: I like your funny words magic man
If Thrawn was around for the original trilogy, the Rebel Alliance, Jedi, and Sith would go the way of Legends.
Also I liked how Rebels depicted Thrawn until the end of season 4.
Theirs no way Thrawn would defeat Sith or Jedi, especially Luke, Anakin, or Palpatine.
lancer737 not in a 1v1 fight, bur he could plan and orchestrate their demise. He could beat them without even lifting a blaster.
@@bobisconsumed520 For reminder all that happen because of the divine intervention. Even Thrawn couldn't predict bumping on The Daughter.
From what I understand of the latest Thrawn novel, Thrawn had bigger issues than the tentacle whales. Palpatine was becoming increasingly interested in expanding into the Unknown Regions, and was making no attempt to hide that he would conquer the Chiss as well. Thrawn's entire purpose for coming to the Empire was to secure an alliance with it for his people, and he had no desire to fight them. In Thrawn: Alliances, Darth Vader called him out on his conflicting loyalty and reminded him multiple times that as an Imperial, for Thrawn to have dual loyalties would be treason punishable by death. I've not read the Treason novel, but I understand that it wraps up just before Thrawn heads out to face Ezra at the end of Star Wars Rebels. I've also read some speculation by fans that Thrawn was secretly relieved to be grabbed by the tentacle whales.
Had Thrawn been found by the Rebellion, imagine how different the universe would have been!
Not much different considering he was specifically planning to get picked up by the empire since his mission was to infiltrate and learn about the empire not the rebels
Not only does the Interdictor technology just disappear in Disney fanon but a few years later the U-wing can hyperspace in planetary gravity wells and inside its atmosphere.
Let's not forget the falcon did it too.
I feel like the new Thrawn Trilogy really exemplifies how smart and efficient a commander Thrawn really is
Nice work Allan. Disney's Thrawn books are a great read and in them you really see the power of the TIE Defender.
The ONLY good thing about Disney Star Wars is that the Thrawn books are the only pro Imperial novels.
I loved Heir to the Empire trilogy and the EU. But Star Wars writers have always use plot armour way to much
Star Wars Fans: Thrawn is one of the most interesting characters in Star Wars
Disney: Reeeeally now? Rebels.... ruin him now.
Rebels seriously down played and nerfed him for sure.
It was for a show with younger viewers in mind. And Disney doesn’t have a great opinion on the intelligence of younger people.
@@CD-Freedom agree with ya. They always have that "if you try you are a winner" attitude. Thrawn did not give out participant awards. Disney villains get shafted in favor of plot armor.
@@CD-Freedom Well star wars in a whole is for kids.... just ask GL
@@badgamemaster Yeah, but George Lucas understood that kids grow up and become smarter over time. That's why in the Clone Wars, each season got progressively darker and more intense.
While his rebel portrayal was kinda meh, gotta give credit to zahn's canon thrawn books. The book thrawn feels a lot like the old thrawn and they line up with they show perfectly
The books are good but that only makes Rebels even worse. They not only betrayed legends Thrawn, the even betrayed canon book Thrawn. The books and Rebels play out at the same time and yet they couldn't be asked to at least keep true to the canon novels
I actually thought the writers did the best they could in the kid show zone trap. Thrawn never really lost to the heroes when it came to strategy, he always had them beat but usually a force completely out of his control (and both times force related) randomly showed up and ruined everything.
It could have been far worse, imagine him actually losing battles because he failed to execute a plan.
Weirdly i think removing thrawn from the galactic rebellion was a homage to him, as god help the rebels if he'd of stayed around to face them.
That’s what happens to even the best of characters when faced with plot armour. They are abducted by giant space whales. It’s like a giant middle finger from Disney to the fans.
I'm just glad they didn't kill him
@@Daddy-Saxon disagree it's worse. Now they can azz pull anytime and show him behind whatever plot or plots they like. If he's dead we can hate them! Now they even took our hate away.
@@Daddy-Saxon him being alive only means they'll bring him back some time and ruin him even further
Imagine Thrawn commanding the Mandolorian Crusaders or Neo-Crusaders. If they almost brought down the Republic by themselves, imagine how unbeatable they would be with Thrawn leading them.
Wookiepedia says about the Purrgil (space whales) that they had the capacity to travel not only in hyperspace but also in alternate dimensions. These really could open a plot arc possibility that Ezra and Thrawn could returned many years later from a different dimension while remaining the same age.
A idea for you. What if Revan returned during the civil war, would he joined the rebellion or formed his own movement?
If Thrawn was still in known space, the Rebellion wouldn’t have lasted a year
A gross overestimation of the rebels chances but agree.
Generation Tech: "thrawn is the ultimate tragedy in star wars"
Darth plagueis: *TRIGGERED*
A villain the fans love, I'd wave an empire flag above my house the day thrawn gets his own series kicking rebbi and empire warlord butt
Thank you for that lead-in. Nothing frustrates me more in the SW universe than Rebels Thrawn. That wasn’t Thrawn. That was a cookie cutter villain with blue skin. People were so excited to hear Lars Mikkelsen getting cast in Ahsoka. My immediate response to that has been, “he’s not my Thrawn”.
"but it was so artfully done" will always be my favorite non-movie line in Star Wars
Grand Admiral Thrawn should be the masterplan all along in Disney Trilogy
He is a bigger part than you realize.
@@DaleESkywalker OH OH I think someone's in the know! Do tell what you can!
I probably love this channel so much because everyone is a dirty rebel sympathiser but this channel knows what’s good
thrawn- this rebellion ends today
space whales- no u
10 years later:
Thrawn: I'm baacck
Man, how cool would Thrawn look in sunglasses? :)
But he did survive and lead the Empire. We call that the Thrawn trilogy, pal.
That was a faction of the Empire.
@@lancer737 Wrong. He united the whole empire under his rule during the height of his power.
@@HolyknightVader999 No he didn't, Sidious controlled the largest subgroup at that time
@@lancer737 Sidious was still dead at the time. Most, if not all remnants at the time were in Thrawn's pocket.
@@HolyknightVader999 No he wasn't, he was watching the whole time with his Imperial Subgroup. You do realize the Dark Empire story arc happens nearly immediately after Thrawn dies right?
Thrawn managed to inspire a great number of officers in his tour, a great number of them were on his fleet on Lothal that fateful day but we also remember from the last book how Palpatine basically promissed to also take over the Chiss.
Watching this now and knowing that those space whales didn’t kill thrown makes me worry for the new republic and the mandolorains
Then the sequel trilogy could've had a much better villain.
True, but there's always Disney Plus! (to portray Thrawn's return in any post-Rebels stories)
@@topnotchshinobi Yet the mandolorian and clone wars are more important to them.
sadly, a non force sensitive villain would sell less
@@brianjohnson5272 well your comment certainly didn’t age well 😆
The t.i.e defender was a blast to fly in the T.I.E fighter video game..
Thrawn did not agree with most of the Empire's practices, and I have a feeling that this would have eventually put him into direct conflict with Palpatine. There is only so much insolence Palpatine would have taken, because despite his brilliance Thrawn was only, in the end, a tool to Palpatine and every bit as "disposable" as anyone else.
What I'm interested in is how it would have gone if Thrawn ended up abandoning Imperial service. I have to believe that almost all of the Seventh Fleet--having worked directly under him and come to understand and admire him--would have defected with him. And in Legends continuity, he had one of those masterful backup plans going where he had assembled those Chiss who had served with him and been converted to his way of thinking secreted away on another planet already at work building the Empire of the Hand (because they were the Hand of Thrawn).
But would Thrawn have joined with the Rebel Alliance in taking down what was left of Palpatine's empire? He already knows and even admires Rebel tactics, he has been building a fighting force that is more like their own in makeup, and SURELY his values are more in line with theirs when it comes to advancing people based on the merit of their contributions rather than their political connections, and without any regard as to their species. Sure, Thrawn's a big boy, and he isn't going to complain or get testy because others treat him badly because he is not human. He knows his own worth and he is not reliant on anyone else's praise or approval to feel better about himself. Sticks and stones and all that jazz.
But it bothered him a hell of a lot that while he kept getting promoted (because he basically forced their hands; he was too damn good for them to get away for long with not promoting him), Eli Vanto kept getting passed over. Thrawn knew all too well that was Fleet Command's way of striking out against Thrawn since they could not do it directly, and he recognized how unfair it was to keep back a thoroughly competent and able officer as a means of striking against another. It brought him to the point where he actually had to ask Pryce for the favor of helping get Vanto promoted.
So surely, when you think about it, Thrawn's ethos is much more in line with the Alliance's own. If it weren't, if he were a Vader sort of character who routinely executed officers for minor errors and ruled his fleet through fear, we wouldn't like him so much. But we appreciate the fact that he takes the time to teach his officers how to think outside of the box, that he is unwilling to commit the lives of his crew to rash and stupid battles instead of retreating when and if the tide of battle turns against him, and that he doesn't berate and belittle his crew for making mistakes, but helps them to learn from those mistakes (provided they are willing to take the responsibility for that mistake and seek to correct it in the future).
So...this is what I want to know. Let's say Thrawn was around during the GCW and helped turn the tide of battle, so the 2nd Death Star never had to be built (although, I believe canon says this was already happening by the time the Battle of Yavin got underway), but Thrawn eventually comes to loggerheads with Palpatine and has to leave the Empire. Let's say the Seventh goes with him, too.
Do we now have 3 distinct warring factions in the galaxy, Empire, Chiss, and Alliance, or could Thrawn conceivably team up with the Alliance to help crush the Empire and remake it in his own image? An empire where everyone has a chance to voice their opinions and thoughts (just like he encourages his officers to do on his ship), but where the ultimate decision lies in the hands of a singular person at the head of the leadership?
Frankly, if Thrawn had not been carried off by the Space Whales, Palpatine would have probably have had him killed. After all, Thrawn is a brilliantly effective officer, much beloved by those under his command and the one thing, Authoritarians of all stripes hate and fear more than anything, more even that rebels, are competent underlings who may represent a future threat to their authority
Hey Allen. I think the one thing you may have not taken into account here was that the emperor was still in charge and my have shot down all of Thrawn’s plans. Then the DS2 may have still been built and also Vader would be a huge rival for Thrawn.
I would love to see a fan film on this. Thrawn is my favourite character after Palpatine.
This was one of the many first videos I watched of Gen Tech if I can remember haha.
It's interesting to me that almost every single villain that Disney has created or adapted have been really lacklustre. You'd think that with enough feedback that they might... you know, try a little harder?
Clone Wars were good, heavy emotional drama. Watching Maul's brother die was heart wrenching. If Kenobi kill Maul's brother, I felt it would have just enrage Maul even more. But having Palpatine due it, just destroyed him. At times left you hating the Jedi Order.
Rebels, other than very few story arcs, it lacked tension ...
For a moment you start to see good character development, then it drops off.
As one YT'er said, the last ep of Maul vs Kenobi, Erza should not have token up 3/4 th of the show in his little side quest adventure that amounted to nothing. It should have been Maul reliving the nightmare of his life. With a few " fake outs," of him meting/ killing Kenobi only to find it was a heat stroke fever dream.
@@krispalermo8133 Yeah almost like the vast majority of the clone wars was made before Disney owned it lmao.
It's a real shame that they just can't seem to nail down the same things over and over.
The Tie Defender and the Advance are probably are something the empire needed. Along with other bombers.
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Grand Admiral Thrawn the Wise, it's a Imperial Legend.
Death Star: It has a Bull's eye painted on it. Stay on Target
Thrawn should have his own talk show about tactics. Or at least a pod cast. And he should interview even people from Star Trek. Could you imagine if Thrawn and Spock got into a debate about 3 body motion and how it applies to calculations for space battle. Have Stephen Hawking arbitrate between them, nerdgasm that's what happens, our collective minds are then blown....
I have wondered how Thrawn would've handled Wraith Squadron. His tactical knowledge vs their improvisational skill.
I am a huge fan of Thrawn (both in Canon and Legends). He would have done a spectacular job taking care of Rebels (especially if you ally him with a competent Inquisitor or even Darth Vader to help nullify the Rebels’ “Force advantage”).
However, at the end of Thrawn Treason, Emperor Palpatine wanted to have “a long long talk” with Thrawn after Lothal was “taken care of” about his true allegiances and would try to manipulate the Chiss Ascendancy to enter into a partnership with (or join) the Empire with Palpatine at the helm. Or manipulate Thrawn into betraying the Ascendancy, for “if [Thrawn] has committed treason against the Empire he will surely die”(pg 333)
I can't wait till the new Thrawn book in October.
Unlikely to have worked, almost all of his tactics were developed in person on-the-fly. Such a centralized system and his risk/reward ratio would have ended up in a faster destruction.
You really need to read the Timothy Zahn books to truly understand how much of a badass Thrawn is.
And the duology as well! The hand of Thrawn shows he's wily as well!
I wonder who was the better stratagist, Thrawn or Vader. I guess it’s kind of comparing two different things because Vader focuses on squeezing his enemy’s slowly while thrawn is more like a grand stratagist who slowly studies his enemy
I do not think that Vader is a good strategist. He is more than able on the tactical level (if not carried away by rage) and a beast in personal fight (both as a person and in his fighter), but I do not see him as someone who coordinate gigantic fleet operations against several worlds at once as Thrawn did. In his Jedi days he lead mostly a few ships and a legion of troops, quite with sucess - but he did not shape the strategy of the Republics war. And in the Empire he was more Palps envoy for special tasks, not someone who made the plans for the war. So I think if ever this two would have to compete Thrawn would have won in strategic and very likely also in tactical terms (while Vader was of course high superior as personal warrior).
Hmm, it's a good theory and I enjoyed it. Of course another possible outcome would be he gets taken out by jealous Admirals who already hated an alien having the ear of the Emperor ;)
Just saw this video now from 2 years ago. He is comin
Thrawn is the man. Think I just found my halloween costume for this year!! 😈
Last time I was this early, Palpatine was still the chancellor
LOL!
Right on just about everything - and I really want to read the new canon trilogy Thrawn books (I read the Legends Heir to the Empire which was phenomenal). But I am split on the Disney plot armor. I didn't mind the Bendu and the space whales, I attribute that to Thrawn's enemies being able to use the Force - the same way Luke Skywalker was able to make that one in a million shot he used the Force. But Luke never would've gotten to take that shot if not for a whole series of espionage, battles, and sacrifices made by many other rebels. I feel like a Vietnam Wall or some kind of memorial listing the names of the fallen would've been appropriate at some point, some of the first on that list being Cassius Andor and Jyn Erso.
In the case of Atollan it wasn't just the Force creature Bendu but Konstatine and his interdictor, while that was taken out at the sacrifice of Commander Sato and the Rebel's only carrier it also allowed an opening for Ezra to get Mandalorian reinforcements that then took out the second interdictor and allowed for the narrow escape at Atollan. Still a bunch of plot armor but also as Allan pointed out, had Thrawn been given complete control of who commanded each vessel Konstatine wouldn't have been given command of the first interdictor and Ezra never would've been able to get reinforcements. Might I also add that even without everything else going wrong - the only thing that stopped Thrawn from destroying the Rebels was his halting of his fleet's orbital bombardment. The Atollan base's shield was assembled at the very last minute, had he just kept up the bombardment he would've been able to destroy the Rebels. All ships would've been destroyed and the Rebels who survived the bombardment would've been left on Atollan stranded - Mandalorian reinforcements and Bendu or not.
As easy as it is to give the Rebels plot armor in the case of the Battle of Atollan (the closest Thrawn ever came to eliminating them entirely), Thrawn's decision to stop the bombardment played as equal if not greater reason to the Rebel's escape that would then lead on to events like the Liberation of Lothal as well as Scariff and the Battle of Yavin.
Speaking of Lothal and space whales. As Thrawn says, an error only becomes a mistake if nothing if actions are never taken to ensure that that error isn't repeated. Thrawn has a limited understanding of the Force and up until the Ahsoka series the only real countermeasures he has in place to counter the jedi is to expect the unexpected. And Ezra and his space whales? Ezra played it closed to the vest, he didn't let anyone know of his contingency plans. And the only reason those plans existed was because he had a vision through the Force that Thrawn would soon be returning to Lothal with his fleet. I can't fault Thrawn for that at all, and maybe it is a little silly and plot armor but we saw Ezra have a strong connection not just to animals but this specific pods of space whales. This is his thing and something that Thrawn had no weapon against.
Unlike in the Ahsoka series, when one of the first things that happens when see him on screen is to set up a mine field in the event some space whales show up. An error only becomes a mistake if it remains uncorrected. By the way that's the one of the few plusses I saw in the Ahsoka series when it came to Thrawn versus Ahsoka, Sabine, and Ezra. The plot armor for those characters was just crazy. Not space horses crazy but still pretty bad.
Talked about Attolan, talked about Lothal, talked about Peridea (I think that the Ahsoka planet name). What I think is the bigger injustice is something that Allan and others bring up is how Disney portrays Thrawn as more of an angry villain than a morally gray anti-hero. In Rebels we see Thrawn lose his cool with one Imperial, which while I can see other Admirals losing their cool that's not something Thrawn would do. We also see Thrawn taunting Ezra that despite his surrender Thrawn would still destroy the civilians of Lothal's capital - and he does attempt to do that even though he has all but won at that point. That part didn't make sense to me, it just seemed cruel and unnecessary which makes sense for your garden variety evil bad guy Disney villain - but not Thrawn.
I know we're going to see more of Thrawn in Ahsoka S2 and probably the upcoming movie as well. I think at this point he has learned that when dealing with jedi it pays to have an ace up your sleeve just in case (like having a fleet of reinforcements standing by that can arrive within minutes). I would also like to see the Thrawn that I hear about in the books versus the one we got in Rebels. Less villain, more anti-hero. Thrawn's goal will remain protecting his people and he will do whatever it takes to ensure their survival (primarily from the Grysk currently). He needs allies and he needs ships to combat them, something he won't get from the New Republic but also maybe not from the Imperial Remnants either. I would rather see him return to Chiss space and start up the Empire of the Hand and just leave the rest of the galaxy to sort itself out, but I don't think that's the direction Disney is headed.
Long comment but feels good to get that out there. Force be with you all.
Imagine Anakin becoming Emperor while still in his prime, with Thrawn being his highest military advisor.
Lil orphan Ani wouldn't have been leader long.
Can you do what if night Swan survived or what if Eli Vanto didn't leave the empire?
Imagine if Thrawn had been on the death star during the battle of Yavin. Again, imagine if the death star was not protected by regular TIEs or TIE interceptors or even Vader's TIE advanced, but by TIE defenders.
Same outcome Tarkin was higher ranked so it just gets Thrawn killed.
@@brianjohnson5272 :(
I would think Thrawn would have realized that there was a reason the rebels were doing trench runs and had the fighters guard the exhaust port or he would have left after Tarkin didn't listen to him so Thrawn lives.
The thing that made thrawn so dangerous is he doesn’t underestimate anyone. He’s ready to throw everything he has at a little Ezra Bridger
In the original cannon Thrawn did survive and he did lead the Empire till he was assassinated by his noghri Rukh on the command deck of the Chimera.
In the Disneyverse Thrawn is still alive, the director of the Mandalorian confirmed that Thrawn and Ezra did survive.
Good video! You actually state some of the things I do not like about Star Wars canon; the lack of continuity. Thrown dosnt really fit well into the timeline-the tech for example that you mentioned somehow disappears from the series. Why? Because the series needs to follow the original timeline.
Thrawn is *not* dead! I believe we will see him and Ezra again, hopefully in connection with the Chiss Ascendancy...
Would fit Thrawn's MO. He respects strength and ability. Ezra in time and under the right conditions could be creative. Look at his Sabre/blaster.
Shawn Allen exactly my thoughts/ hopes!
Thrawn didn’t kill himself
Seeing Thrawn interact with Vader would be legendary
Yes I'd love to see the trolling Thrawn would do knowing the Anakin! Oh wait he did that in a book!
0:41 did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise?
In Legends, The New Republic came to admit that had Thrawn not been killed by Rukh, The Galaxy would've fallen back into The Empire's grip, and also admitted that the Galaxy would've been more ready to fight The Far Outsiders, The Yuuzhan Vong Empire had Thrawn won.
This speaks volumes of how much of a big deal Thrawn was in the Legends Timeline. Whereas in Disney, Thrawn is defeated by a simple band of rebels, and SPACE WHALES!
'' Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn''
- Ahsoka Tano
Overall Thrawn is a great villain and I hope he’s still alive out there in the unknown regions and possibly we could see him in that rebel sequel series that’s been rumored!!😎😎👍
This video has aged like fine wine
I would like to see a video about Thrawn if he was in the Clone Wars, either Republic and CIS, or if he was the Empour from the begging
Lemme just say this. TIE’s>x-wings. How many times do we see an X-wing’s shields hold against just one shot? A shield generator and a hyperdrive is dead weight in a space superiority fighter. TIE’s are fast, maneuverable and have excellent chin mounted cannons. The armor on the TIE’s are the same as star destroyers and the death star, just obviously much thinner. They have about as much of a chance to survive getting hit as an X wing would.
If Thrawn would have made the First Order and replaced snoke(and by proxy, our boy palpi,) as the villain, I would have been happy.
Wonder how the Imperials would have reacted if they learned Thrawn and the Chiss evolved from humans.
A simple genetic test for stander medical history would have shown that.
There was an inside joke in KOTOR II, on the reason " why " humans are so easily to clone and had very little problems of getting drunk and cross breeding with other,
" species."
So are chiss a blue twi'lek and human croosbreed?