My understanding is that dental school is more expensive than med school. They have a residency but is unpaid so it is pretty “common” for someone to be a dentist and have 500k in debt due to taking debt for living expenses.
Yeah, but the flipside is dental residency is entirely optional and not mandatory. Residency is for someone going into a dental subspecialty that's real specific (oral surgery, ortho etc). This is where some of those near 7 figure debts come from. You can avoid that and start immediately as an "attending" general dentist straight outta graduation and start chomping down on those high loan balances. Dental school is pricier than medical school, but there sure are examples where a med student's balance isn't far off from a dental student's balance. But yes, I generally think Dental School is overpriced as HELL.
What an indecent rip-off. The laws need to be changed allowing college and graduate student borrowers to declare bankruptcy and renegotiate their excessive debt...that's real capitalism, not all risks shoved onto the borrower.
As a dental student I can attest that $1mill is not that far of a stretch. To be fully candid, my tuition alone is $92k a year, not including living expenses. If you were to take the full amount on loans, which obviously you need something to pay rent, etc. I know that my school approves up to a total loan amount of about $127k a year. Taking all of that into consideration, you would be well over $500k, likely nearing 600k with interest accrued during school. As far as I'm aware there are very few orthodontic residencies that don't require you to pay for them, and maybe none. At my program the Ortho residency is $47k a year, again, not including living expenses (~82k with living). So during the three year ortho residency you would be accruing about $40k in interest from your dental school loans while also taking another 80k. Now if you're following my math here you can see were already at ~$960k, and I hate to inform you, but this is not even the most expensive program out there. Realistically though an Orthodontist should make $400-500k+ a year though if that helps.
That's awful. If you start college at 18, you'll be around 30 when you finish residency (unless I messed up somewhere). Starting with $1 million of debt, you'll at least be in your 40s by the time you can actually start using your money how you want to.
@@karma1507 I agree that medical/dental education are pricy and (unnecessarily) expensive as hell. But schools know that people that graduated WILL be able to pay it back so they have NO incentive to make the education cheaper. Hell, taking money from hungry student taking out federal/private loans must be the easiest/most predatory way to make $$$z
@@karma1507 Basically all of that effort only to maybe be rich in your 50s. Wow. That means hoping and praying for good health down the line is paramount. This all seems like so so much stress. I'll stick to headaches in finance.
Loving the finance talk Dr. Cellini there aren't enough people that touch on it and a lot of us don't have a plan on how we're going to pay back all this debt!
So I am a Pre-Dental student and am quite familiar with dental incomes bc I’ve asked around. As for an orthodontist, 250k is low but he is a new grad so it usually starts at 250k-350k in the beginning and then linear growth begins.
@@pikusarker1359 I couldn’t tell you the max. I know some Orthodontists that make over 1M a year. It depends on the Doc as to how much they make. It depends on their location, whether they work for a corporation or private practice. It also depends on whether the Doc has their own practice...
Dental student in CA here. Dental school tuition is close to 100k a year for 4 years. This doesn’t include living expenses. Living expenses in CA is 20k a year with room mates. So we’re at 480k for dental school. Residency is another 120k a year for 3 years. With living we’re looking at 420k. That brings us to around 900k. Now add in interest throughout the life of the loan from your first year in school and add in undergrad loans. I wish I could say that this guy was being irresponsible with how much money he was taking out for his education but this is “normal” for many dental residents. Also, dental residencies often don’t pay their residents. Dental education costs in the US are insane.
I'll tell you how it happened...He went to undergrad, probably around 30k in debt, he went to a private dental school, NYU, USC, or one of the other schools, 400k in debt..he went to Ortho (non-paid) residency another 400-500k in debt, you have to pay tuition for ortho residency and its non-paid. All the while, interest is accruing on the undergrad and DDS degree. that's close to 900k, spend another year after graduation getting set up before making any money, and it's easily at a million, in debt. (Oral surgery, maybe dental anesthesia, are the only paid residency programs in Dentistry). The real problem, is that the government backed student loans, so the education institutions, where able to raise tuition astronomically high, without loosing out on enrollment due affordability.
If you manage to go to school debt-free (which is unlikely) or live very frugally for about a decade during and post training combined, the rewards can be immense. Going into your late 30s being millionaire with “fk you” money is nothing to scoff at.
I took out too much during pharmacy school. Instead of taking out the tuition money only, I also took out the full “cost of admission “ which included books cost, equipment cost, laptop cost, transport and housing cost.
Depends on the specialty. Most ortho residencies are unpaid. Specialties that pay you during residency: General dentistry, Pediatrics, Oral surgery, Dental anesthesiology, some endodontics. Specialties that won't pay you during residency: Most orthodontics, most periodontics, most prosthodontics, some endodontics.
Hi! I’m a TH-camr and a dentist pursuing orthodontics. Yes you are right about most dental residences being unpaid. There are a couple paid orthodontic programs but they are very hard to get into and accept very few students. Most ortho programs I’ve seen can cost up to 100K a year and you have to pay this for 2-3 years.
Pediatric dentist here. Graduated residency in 2018, 630k debt. I expect to be debt free in 2025, but not everyone in my shoes will see the light at the end of the tunnel. For anyone reading- I joined the army reserves for loan repayment, work in my office Mon-Thurs, and help attend at the dental school on Fridays. Many dentist I know will not be able do pay off their student loans, because of loan-interest. Here is the breakdown for my life- tuition was about 300k for 4 years, but I lived off 30k per year for 6 years (180k), residency was 2 years at 30k per year (60k). 540k total, but interest was ticking for 6 years at about 7%. Ortho residency is worse, because it can be 100k per year for 3 years (300k). If you join army reserves, you have to keep attacking your loans because you can finish your contract and still owe the same amount due to interest.
@larryhon Hi Larry, congratulations. I see this comment is 2 yrs old but on the chance you read it, let your friends know that I can help them with their loans to pay off half time. Yes really! Yes it has to do with interest and math. 😊
Hey Dr. Cellini - pharmacy student here (crying in debt). Can you do a video on how to manage your loans during graduate school and tips n trick to look out for? How to prepare for loans when you graduate? Would be super helpful!!!
i feel like majority of students who graduate with 250K debt have to live off of rice and beans for next 5-10 years in order to pay off debt reasonably - WHY IS IT SO SCARY!!
Your tax calculations was wrong. Not all his 250,000 is taxed at 30%. You have to claim the standard deduction and also income is taxed starting with a smaller tax brackets. Probably only 20-30% of her income with be taxed at 30%
Dental School is super expensive. My schools tuition is $85k per year, not to include how high the cost of living is in Boston. A lot of Dental Residencies also charge tuition rather than paying their residents. Some residencies YOU pay. For example, UNLV Orthodontic residency is $79,000 for years 1 and 2 (each) and $42,000 for the third year. More loans/scholarships needed! This deters people from school and specializing.
He is probably starting out so the 250 will go up but the reason he is in so much debt I’d because in dental specialties (other than oral surgery) you have to pay to be in the program rather than being paid so he probably had anywhere from 400-600k in debt just from dental school then the rest has been paying his residency program and interest accumulating all those years
4th year dental student here. The reason he is in 1 mil debt is because dental schools charge crazy high tuition. He went to a school that charges one of the highest tuitions in the nation, as well as its residency program. For orthodontics residency, you have to pay, they don't pay you. So he had to pay for those extra years of schooling as well. Orthodontics is getting saturated now because programs are realizing dental students would love to be a part of this field and will pay any cost to become a certified orthodontist -thus more programs are opening up. However, the salary start up is a little lower and general dentists are starting to do more invisalign cases. Orthodontics is a big risk to pursue nowadays. Which is why I am pursuing oral surgery. It is the ENT/Plastics of dentistry and more competitive than orthodontics.
Salaries depend on the city you work. Also the military can help you cancel some of the debt. If you are a salary person that it’s frugal with his/her salary it would take 30+ years to save up 7 times your annual salary.
so in the full video, he explained that he have opened his own office and works 3 days at another office which pays 250k. opening a practice and his student loan could result in 1 mil, but idk if that loan is strictly his student loan.
It's student loans- dental school is more expensive than medical school, and the dental residencies are unpaid and actually make you pay them to train, so it's easy for dental specialists to reach close to $1 million by dental education alone, then add in any undergrad loans and boom! $1 million total in student loans.
Im a Y2 atm. I will be at 450k when I finish. My biggest mistake was taking out full loans in undergrad. I didn’t need to just didnt want to ask my hubby for money. I was used to paying my own way. My biggest fear is graduating at 54 with a home size loan to pay. I am a veteran, and I am looking at working at a VA for forgiveness. Only way it makes sense for me.
so i just went on google and saw that dental residents actually have to PAY to be in their respective residency. So they have debt from undergrad, dental school AND residency. WOW.
I’m a dentist. It’s a very sad situation. Tuition is roughly $100,000 per year. Most of it generates interest the moment you get the loan. 4 years of dental school, then about 2 years of ortho residency. That’s $600k before interest and living expenses
The fact that you can take out $1 million in student loans with no job, no collateral, no nothing is absolutely insane. Meanwhile, banks will put you through the ringer for a moderate business loan.
In dentistry right now, so I can explain a bit. Unfortunately, it's easy to come up with a few ways to hit a million dollars debt as an orthodontist. First, US dental schools charge the most for training in the world. If a student has no financial help, they usually graduate from a public school to owe 300k-400k, and private schools owe 550-650k (this includes interest and cost of living) just to obtain their DDS. If he went to an expensive private dental school, then 600k of debt by graduation is not only possible, but probable. You can owe a little less if you happen to live in that city though, so 600k could potentially roll back to 500k, even if it's an expensive private school. Afterwards, ortho residencies are 3 years and are unpaid. Dental residencies may give salary or charge tuition depending on which specialty you choose. In this case, ortho happens to be a specialty that charges you but don't pay you for 3 years. Most residencies will charge around 80k, but you still have to think about cost of living and interest, so you could pay potentially over 100k a year again for your ortho residency. With interest, 600k + 300k + interest for another 3 years, this could easily go to a million dollars and over.
@@Russianboyz95 Yep. Depending on which specialty you want to go into, you either get paid or have to pay. Have to pay: Orthodontics, periodontics Get paid: General practice, oral & maxillofacial surgery, pedodontics, dental anesthesia Either/or: Endodontics, prosthodontics.
@@zzzzzzzzzz098with how hard residents are worked, I can’t imagine not being paid at least a bit. I’m looking at potential residencies for when I finish med school and most residents work over 100 hours a week and make less than 10 an hour.
Depending on your major in college, you go into that field. If you were a bio major, you can become a biologist, teacher, etc. You can even be a lab analyst at biopharm companies. That's what i did during my gap yar
I think another issue is how can loan providers let someone borrow $1,000,000 in student loans? There should be a cap - there is on federal loans- I know cause I maxed mine but I guess the private loan route you can borrow as much as you want. In other countries people in higher education are paid for their education not the other way round …
If he went to the most expensive dental school (~$700k from NYU of Midwestern) and went to the most expensive residency (~$300k from GA ortho residency) he could rack up 1mil in debt. He could’ve not done either and just went to a private dental school ($4-600k) and a typical ortho residency (~$1-200k), an expensive masters, and an expensive undergrad maybe? Regardless, I’ve spoken with ortho residents and new grad orthos and the income for new grads is about $250k-350k/year and established orthodontists that they’ve met make anywhere between $600k-$800k. Key word is ESTABLISHED, and it can take 7-15 years to reach that point.
He should file for bankruptcy. Traditionally student loans are not forgiven however in his case he can definitely prove undue hardship with a good attorney.
@@willmatz41 did those 4 people have $1000000 in student loans? This is an unusual situation. The only negative is he is gainfully employed with what’s considered a high income. So that’ll be hard to argue
Yes please do this! Last semester of nursing school student here!! LOVE watching your vids. You and adrianna are the cutest! Sending you both love from Saint Louis!
I saw the video and WTF I'm in shock that nurses have the potentiality to crush a MD/DO's salary... I don't understand how the system allows for doctors to get screwed like that
I am a newly grad Endodontist, and have 720$k in loan. 300k income on average. I dont have an office and dont have a house cause I cant afford it, driving my 2010 Camry probably for another 10+ years hopefully is gonna last me that long. I love what I do and have never had any regrets going into the field. wealth accumulation is very difficult at this day and age, and if thats your intention I do not recommend dentistry anymore.
You should move to Bismarck N D the endontists are so busy it takes 2 months to get in. They charge about $2200 for a root canal. So if they do 15 a week and take 12 weeks off a year that comes to $1,320,000
Honestly, the conversation around physician debt is never long or detail enough to discuss the factors at play Undergrad debt Grad school Debt Out of state Med School Debt Bad advise from advisors The generation you grew up in and the emphasis on obtaining a college degree Rising costs of education Criminally high interest rates on some loans Access to information etc The amount can definitely reach > 600K+ The Nontraditional path is typically the most expensive path. ...But yeah 1 million is insane
My opinion. The insurance companies suck up most of what Dr get today. Example I had a MRI, that charged 4,800. The insurance company paid $98. My co pay was 0. This went through from registration to technician to radiologist. How do they do that?????
Holy Pete! I somewhat agree with Ramsey but he’s also the same person that states you can attend college without loans….I’m thinking this guy had oodles of debt from other things related to school? Did he max his loan any to include housing, and just basic living expenses? Inquiring minds want to know!!
As a nurse for 20yrs my wages have been flat for years... Corporate America broked the unions in the 80s and 90s...so we have little bargaining power.....upper middle class was silent.....now Corporate America is coming for you.....buying up practices, and limiting admiting privileges unless you work for them.... I curious to see how this plays out.
20years ago I graduated with $200000 in debt from Dental School. Got super lucky and had my 3 years of specialty training paid for by the government. Now the graduates will come out with $600000 easy. You add three years of specialty and you are looking at well over $1,000,000. I think kids are better off going to trade school tbh.
I'm not a youtube dentist but i'm a dental student I love talking about this stuff I'd love the opportunity to talk Dr. Cellini! I make dental school videos on my channel you were one of the people I watched when I was pre-med and inspired me to start my youtube journey
Not for anything but Dietitians have to PAY for their "internship" or residency and make no income during that year.... only for a year, but still, it's criminal not to pay people for working!!! Poor guy.. those loans are on another level!
Newly graduated dentist here. Private dental schools can require as much as 400k (sometimes more) in loans. Most ortho residency are not paid and charge tuition and could be an additional 200k. So I can see 600k but idk how he got to a million. Makes me feel a little better about my loans 😬.
Private dental schools can require 400k in tuition ONLY before interest. With interest and living expenses it could go up to 600k-650k. Then tack on an unpaid Ortho residency for 75k a year for 3 years, and continued interest, that's a mil easy.
@@pikusarker1359 Can't answer that. It's different for everyone. Where you live, how much rent you pay, how much money you make, how much student debt you have, are you on a loan repayment plan, etc, it's all varied for the individual.
With cost of living he could have racked up another 100-200k. And the remaining difference could be his under grad dept 🥶. Can’t be more thankful that I just got accepted into a state dental school
We also make $100k more than you, at least in my specialty. So as good as graduating debt free would have been, I prefer my higher salary that pays my student loan in 5 years and then I get to keep it.
I would much rather pay 40-50% income tax and then have at least somewhat equal opportunities for everyone when it comes to education, as well as free healthcare and other social securities than having lots of people dealing with debt due to illness or education. That's a price I'm very willing to pay for equal opportunity and peace of mind..
Holly smokes that's so depressing! I can't even imagine going to school for yrs then graduate owning that amt just starting your career. How sad. He should of been watching your videos.i wonder how many yrs he went to school? I love when u react to other videos. Your so cool.i feel bad for him. He should of picked a different field or school.😢
Here in India government medical College is cheap and good it cost you nearly 1200 dollar each year for 5 year and if you come from economically backward section it will be going to half the amount you pay so we don't have any student loan on us if we study from government but it is very hard to get into that
I hope this guy watches your videos, I think you have way better advice. That being said, it is still crazy to me how you have to pay so much money to obtain a career here in the states. It’s sad. Hopefully something changes in the future.
The schools have enjoyed 20 years of profiteering off the students. No more. On line college offer MD degrees. To up grade my pharmacist degree to MD? About $30k then costs of internship, residency etc. The point being, education should not be expensive, it’s free on the internet, as information is everywhere. It’s time the brick and mortar schools provide low tuition.
Well some dental schools are over 80k per years (Midwestern). Plus housing and living expenses can be 30k per year. So just in loans it can be 110k per year. Plus 4 years of interest on that. Plus interest on it during however long residency is. And if Dr. C is right about dental residents/fellows not getting paid or having to pay, then extra loans for that and interest. $1mil would be about right. That's insane.
Reporter: Hey Austin Powers, what will you do with one million dollar ransom money you received from the united nations? Austin Powers: [With the Austin Powers smile] Pay off my dental school
I study medicine in Rome in english and I do have some american classmates. We pay 2000€ per year. Why more american students don't study in Europe? It is so much cheaper, and the education is just as good.
One of the hardest realities was the interest started to kick in as soon as someone takes the loan out. How can they do this to students!!?? With fully known that, they can't pay it back right away because they are still studying (that's why they take loans). Such pure evil
@@pikusarker1359 WELL MY GOOD SIR ! I WILL BE MAKING A VIDEO ON THAT. BUT THE PLAN IS NO MORE THAN 3-4 YEARS. I KNOW IT SOUNDS CRAZY BUT MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT ME AND DONT HAVE MY WIFE WHO IS SUPER AMAZING WITH MONEY. THE KEY IS SIMPLE CONTINUE TO LIVE LIKE A RESIDENT AND THROW ALL YOUR MONEY AT IT FRO 3 YEARS. :) MARK MY WORDS !!!!!!
I love that you are speaking on this. My daughter (she's 15) currently aspires to be an anesthesiologist. It's to hard to encourage her to pursue a profession that has the potential to put her in massive amounts of debt.
Have her consider CNA (nurse anesthetist!) it’s an advanced nursing degree and they do everything an MD does :) the journey is just as competitive and difficult but significantly cheaper
@@wannacashmeoutside Respect for what you do, but that comment just isn't true. It wouldn't even logically make sense that some of the best and brightest students work and train and study for thousands of additional hours to get an MD just to get the same results as a CRNA. There is a clear difference, and you should be embracing the career you chose, not trying to make it something it's not.
He’ll make more money later, the more you pay on principal, the more the interest goes down. Also just a nugget of wisdom, if you even hit the tax bracket of 30% you don’t pay 30% on the whole income. Just the amount per tax bracket ☺️ Of course it is extreme though yeah, hope the best for this guy.
also, he could accept a job that could help him negotiate or pay some of that debt off in addition to his income. My husband did that in his large debt from medical school. Hope he uses his resources wisely!
If the national average was 3000 patients for every overworked under paid Doctor and that Doc got paid $ 333.33 from that estimate of each his her patients then one could possibly pay off $1 million
@@DrCellini Could you tell me the percentage difference from what you saw between academic vs private practice IR salaries? I unfortunately will be in the 500-600k area when I complete (medical school high tuition) so I am just trying to find out what my options would be. Thanks
And keep in mind that these "students" are among the best and brightest..give me a break. He could have started a business for a fraction of that amount and purchased a franchise. Wow, the naivete of these people is unbelievable. But remember he is a doctor....
I mean, we do need people to go into those fields, so something should be done about the criminally high cost. Also, they become "rich kid" professions because bright, middle class students can't handle the amount of debt.
Dr c, thank u for this video I am a huge fan of u and Dave Ramsey. I would love your opinion on my situation. I am transitioning from a 20 year career where I have reached max potential at 60k annually. I have been accepted to Med school with a tuition of 200k. I have been verbally assured of a 3 year residency making 60k annually plus 10k paid for family health insurance throughout the residency. Med school plus supplies and 18 months of rent for the first 2 years and interest will be about 300k. If I just stayed in my career 7 years x 60k = 420 income or the school route is 400 cost but after 5 years of work at 200k annual income I should be clear. Beyond all the reasons desiring to pursue Med school, is this a very foolish choice?
Dave comes from the generation that was handed everything to them during those times. Millennials and Gen-Z have not had anywhere near the wealth opportunities that Dave’s generation had. It’s not uncommon to be 130k to 160k as a phd student on their path to become a professor and I can only imagine how much it is for dental and medical students with the former probably owing more than 6 figures.
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My understanding is that dental school is more expensive than med school. They have a residency but is unpaid so it is pretty “common” for someone to be a dentist and have 500k in debt due to taking debt for living expenses.
Spot on right here. Some residencies you pay tuition as well.
Yeah, but the flipside is dental residency is entirely optional and not mandatory. Residency is for someone going into a dental subspecialty that's real specific (oral surgery, ortho etc). This is where some of those near 7 figure debts come from. You can avoid that and start immediately as an "attending" general dentist straight outta graduation and start chomping down on those high loan balances. Dental school is pricier than medical school, but there sure are examples where a med student's balance isn't far off from a dental student's balance.
But yes, I generally think Dental School is overpriced as HELL.
How much orthodontist earn maximum per year in usa? Nice video.
What an indecent rip-off. The laws need to be changed allowing college and graduate student borrowers to declare bankruptcy and renegotiate their excessive debt...that's real capitalism, not all risks shoved onto the
borrower.
@@pikusarker1359 200k
As a dental student I can attest that $1mill is not that far of a stretch. To be fully candid, my tuition alone is $92k a year, not including living expenses. If you were to take the full amount on loans, which obviously you need something to pay rent, etc. I know that my school approves up to a total loan amount of about $127k a year. Taking all of that into consideration, you would be well over $500k, likely nearing 600k with interest accrued during school. As far as I'm aware there are very few orthodontic residencies that don't require you to pay for them, and maybe none. At my program the Ortho residency is $47k a year, again, not including living expenses (~82k with living). So during the three year ortho residency you would be accruing about $40k in interest from your dental school loans while also taking another 80k. Now if you're following my math here you can see were already at ~$960k, and I hate to inform you, but this is not even the most expensive program out there. Realistically though an Orthodontist should make $400-500k+ a year though if that helps.
That's awful. If you start college at 18, you'll be around 30 when you finish residency (unless I messed up somewhere). Starting with $1 million of debt, you'll at least be in your 40s by the time you can actually start using your money how you want to.
@@karma1507 I agree that medical/dental education are pricy and (unnecessarily) expensive as hell. But schools know that people that graduated WILL be able to pay it back so they have NO incentive to make the education cheaper. Hell, taking money from hungry student taking out federal/private loans must be the easiest/most predatory way to make $$$z
@@karma1507 Basically all of that effort only to maybe be rich in your 50s. Wow. That means hoping and praying for good health down the line is paramount.
This all seems like so so much stress. I'll stick to headaches in finance.
I was $200,000 in student loan debt from CRNA school. Paid it off in 2 years this month! Now real life can begin.
Sir how much do you make now?
Good for you man.
👏🏿👏🏿
This comment should have thousands of likes. Congratulations!
@@pikusarker1359CRNAs make quite a bit of money
Loving the finance talk Dr. Cellini there aren't enough people that touch on it and a lot of us don't have a plan on how we're going to pay back all this debt!
I can help with this bro!
So I am a Pre-Dental student and am quite familiar with dental incomes bc I’ve asked around. As for an orthodontist, 250k is low but he is a new grad so it usually starts at 250k-350k in the beginning and then linear growth begins.
there's a lot of money in dentistry but school and residency can get super expensive. Me and my classmates talk about this really often
@@StudentDoctorEli I totally agree with you. I’m glad you commented cause now I can check out your channel🤓
@@pamelag3879 mam how much orthodontist earn at maximum in usa? Plz reply. Thanks a lot.
@@pikusarker1359 I couldn’t tell you the max. I know some Orthodontists that make over 1M a year. It depends on the Doc as to how much they make. It depends on their location, whether they work for a corporation or private practice. It also depends on whether the Doc has their own practice...
@@pamelag3879 is the 1million before tax and overhead costs or after overhead costs and taxes?
Dental student in CA here.
Dental school tuition is close to 100k a year for 4 years. This doesn’t include living expenses. Living expenses in CA is 20k a year with room mates.
So we’re at 480k for dental school.
Residency is another 120k a year for 3 years. With living we’re looking at 420k.
That brings us to around 900k. Now add in interest throughout the life of the loan from your first year in school and add in undergrad loans.
I wish I could say that this guy was being irresponsible with how much money he was taking out for his education but this is “normal” for many dental residents.
Also, dental residencies often don’t pay their residents.
Dental education costs in the US are insane.
You don’t get pay during residency as a dentist?
@@yangzhang2536 in dentistry, some residencies pay but it’s my understanding that most don’t
Holy shit amd dentists have high suicide rates too...
😭😭😭
I'll tell you how it happened...He went to undergrad, probably around 30k in debt, he went to a private dental school, NYU, USC, or one of the other schools, 400k in debt..he went to Ortho (non-paid) residency another 400-500k in debt, you have to pay tuition for ortho residency and its non-paid. All the while, interest is accruing on the undergrad and DDS degree. that's close to 900k, spend another year after graduation getting set up before making any money, and it's easily at a million, in debt. (Oral surgery, maybe dental anesthesia, are the only paid residency programs in Dentistry). The real problem, is that the government backed student loans, so the education institutions, where able to raise tuition astronomically high, without loosing out on enrollment due affordability.
This is a common problem many doctors and dentists end up finding themselves in. Crazy that we're in a world where this happens
Facts
*in america
And then there are Vets💀
If you manage to go to school debt-free (which is unlikely) or live very frugally for about a decade during and post training combined, the rewards can be immense. Going into your late 30s being millionaire with “fk you” money is nothing to scoff at.
I took out too much during pharmacy school. Instead of taking out the tuition money only, I also took out the full “cost of admission “ which included books cost, equipment cost, laptop cost, transport and housing cost.
Then how else would u pay for it?? I'm genuinely asking because it is my understanding that you don't work while completing your graduate program
@@harvestingseason2725 I mean, I did work but maximum 16 hours a week and at a pay rate of $11/hr, which doesn’t really get you much.
@@KillerAJ ah ok got ya. Are you working as a pharmacist today?
I can confirm. My boyfriend is a dentist and said most residency programs are unpaid.
How much your boyfriend earn as a dentist?
Depends on the specialty. Most ortho residencies are unpaid.
Specialties that pay you during residency: General dentistry, Pediatrics, Oral surgery, Dental anesthesiology, some endodontics.
Specialties that won't pay you during residency: Most orthodontics, most periodontics, most prosthodontics, some endodontics.
@@zzzzzzzzzz098 sir how much orthodontists typically earn in usa?
@@pikusarker1359 Probably average 300k-350k.
@@zzzzzzzzzz098 sir is it before tax or after tax?
Hi! I’m a TH-camr and a dentist pursuing orthodontics. Yes you are right about most dental residences being unpaid. There are a couple paid orthodontic programs but they are very hard to get into and accept very few students. Most ortho programs I’ve seen can cost up to 100K a year and you have to pay this for 2-3 years.
Pediatric dentist here. Graduated residency in 2018, 630k debt. I expect to be debt free in 2025, but not everyone in my shoes will see the light at the end of the tunnel. For anyone reading- I joined the army reserves for loan repayment, work in my office Mon-Thurs, and help attend at the dental school on Fridays. Many dentist I know will not be able do pay off their student loans, because of loan-interest. Here is the breakdown for my life- tuition was about 300k for 4 years, but I lived off 30k per year for 6 years (180k), residency was 2 years at 30k per year (60k). 540k total, but interest was ticking for 6 years at about 7%. Ortho residency is worse, because it can be 100k per year for 3 years (300k).
If you join army reserves, you have to keep attacking your loans because you can finish your contract and still owe the same amount due to interest.
@larryhon Hi Larry, congratulations. I see this comment is 2 yrs old but on the chance you read it, let your friends know that I can help them with their loans to pay off half time. Yes really! Yes it has to do with interest and math. 😊
Hey Dr. Cellini - pharmacy student here (crying in debt). Can you do a video on how to manage your loans during graduate school and tips n trick to look out for? How to prepare for loans when you graduate? Would be super helpful!!!
i feel like majority of students who graduate with 250K debt have to live off of rice and beans for next 5-10 years in order to pay off debt reasonably - WHY IS IT SO SCARY!!
Check out his video “How I’m paying off student loans” super helpful.
Hello fellow Pharmacy Student, hang in there!
Your tax calculations was wrong. Not all his 250,000 is taxed at 30%. You have to claim the standard deduction and also income is taxed starting with a smaller tax brackets. Probably only 20-30% of her income with be taxed at 30%
Dental School is super expensive. My schools tuition is $85k per year, not to include how high the cost of living is in Boston. A lot of Dental Residencies also charge tuition rather than paying their residents. Some residencies YOU pay. For example, UNLV Orthodontic residency is $79,000 for years 1 and 2 (each) and $42,000 for the third year. More loans/scholarships needed! This deters people from school and specializing.
He is probably starting out so the 250 will go up but the reason he is in so much debt I’d because in dental specialties (other than oral surgery) you have to pay to be in the program rather than being paid so he probably had anywhere from 400-600k in debt just from dental school then the rest has been paying his residency program and interest accumulating all those years
That’s so crazy
Yup
median salary of $208,000 in 2020. The best-paid 25 percent made $208,000 that year, while the lowest-paid 25 percent made $150,250.
4th year dental student here. The reason he is in 1 mil debt is because dental schools charge crazy high tuition. He went to a school that charges one of the highest tuitions in the nation, as well as its residency program. For orthodontics residency, you have to pay, they don't pay you. So he had to pay for those extra years of schooling as well. Orthodontics is getting saturated now because programs are realizing dental students would love to be a part of this field and will pay any cost to become a certified orthodontist -thus more programs are opening up. However, the salary start up is a little lower and general dentists are starting to do more invisalign cases. Orthodontics is a big risk to pursue nowadays. Which is why I am pursuing oral surgery. It is the ENT/Plastics of dentistry and more competitive than orthodontics.
How much orthodontist earn maximum in usa? Plz reply.
How much you will be making as an oral surgeon?
Salaries depend on the city you work. Also the military can help you cancel some of the debt. If you are a salary person that it’s frugal with his/her salary it would take 30+ years to save up 7 times your annual salary.
I work in the field, the very well off orthodontist are the business owners. Most associate dentist will have a salary and bonus for production.
Sir you much do you make now? Plz reply. Thanks a lot.
so in the full video, he explained that he have opened his own office and works 3 days at another office which pays 250k. opening a practice and his student loan could result in 1 mil, but idk if that loan is strictly his student loan.
It's student loans- dental school is more expensive than medical school, and the dental residencies are unpaid and actually make you pay them to train, so it's easy for dental specialists to reach close to $1 million by dental education alone, then add in any undergrad loans and boom! $1 million total in student loans.
Im a Y2 atm. I will be at 450k when I finish. My biggest mistake was taking out full loans in undergrad. I didn’t need to just didnt want to ask my hubby for money. I was used to paying my own way. My biggest fear is graduating at 54 with a home size loan to pay. I am a veteran, and I am looking at working at a VA for forgiveness. Only way it makes sense for me.
@wilbur mcwaffles means 2nd year medical student. Y1 Y2 etc.
so i just went on google and saw that dental residents actually have to PAY to be in their respective residency. So they have debt from undergrad, dental school AND residency. WOW.
Yup
I’m a dentist. It’s a very sad situation. Tuition is roughly $100,000 per year. Most of it generates interest the moment you get the loan. 4 years of dental school, then about 2 years of ortho residency. That’s $600k before interest and living expenses
The fact that you can take out $1 million in student loans with no job, no collateral, no nothing is absolutely insane. Meanwhile, banks will put you through the ringer for a moderate business loan.
In dentistry right now, so I can explain a bit. Unfortunately, it's easy to come up with a few ways to hit a million dollars debt as an orthodontist. First, US dental schools charge the most for training in the world. If a student has no financial help, they usually graduate from a public school to owe 300k-400k, and private schools owe 550-650k (this includes interest and cost of living) just to obtain their DDS.
If he went to an expensive private dental school, then 600k of debt by graduation is not only possible, but probable. You can owe a little less if you happen to live in that city though, so 600k could potentially roll back to 500k, even if it's an expensive private school.
Afterwards, ortho residencies are 3 years and are unpaid. Dental residencies may give salary or charge tuition depending on which specialty you choose. In this case, ortho happens to be a specialty that charges you but don't pay you for 3 years. Most residencies will charge around 80k, but you still have to think about cost of living and interest, so you could pay potentially over 100k a year again for your ortho residency. With interest, 600k + 300k + interest for another 3 years, this could easily go to a million dollars and over.
Yup
O.O you guys *pay* for residency?
@@Russianboyz95 Yep. Depending on which specialty you want to go into, you either get paid or have to pay.
Have to pay: Orthodontics, periodontics
Get paid: General practice, oral & maxillofacial surgery, pedodontics, dental anesthesia
Either/or: Endodontics, prosthodontics.
Wtf ew no
@@zzzzzzzzzz098with how hard residents are worked, I can’t imagine not being paid at least a bit. I’m looking at potential residencies for when I finish med school and most residents work over 100 hours a week and make less than 10 an hour.
Ayo Dr.Cellini can you make a video explaining what to do in case someone does not get accepted into medical school?
Depending on your major in college, you go into that field. If you were a bio major, you can become a biologist, teacher, etc. You can even be a lab analyst at biopharm companies. That's what i did during my gap yar
I think another issue is how can loan providers let someone borrow $1,000,000 in student loans? There should be a cap - there is on federal loans- I know cause I maxed mine but I guess the private loan route you can borrow as much as you want. In other countries people in higher education are paid for their education not the other way round …
He may not have taken out that much in principle….but interest over the years may have gotten him to 1000000
@@Chels-fz5uq if he was always paying the minimum then interest wouldn’t accrue to that level. I guess if he was unpaid for many years.
@@eyekandy3000 he was likely deferred through residency…..and yes interest can accrue that much especially if only paying the minimum
If he went to the most expensive dental school (~$700k from NYU of Midwestern) and went to the most expensive residency (~$300k from GA ortho residency) he could rack up 1mil in debt. He could’ve not done either and just went to a private dental school ($4-600k) and a typical ortho residency (~$1-200k), an expensive masters, and an expensive undergrad maybe? Regardless, I’ve spoken with ortho residents and new grad orthos and the income for new grads is about $250k-350k/year and established orthodontists that they’ve met make anywhere between $600k-$800k. Key word is ESTABLISHED, and it can take 7-15 years to reach that point.
PA school is right around 150k for 2 years
He should file for bankruptcy. Traditionally student loans are not forgiven however in his case he can definitely prove undue hardship with a good attorney.
If it's Federal loans (which I doubt I'm sure the majority are private) they won't count. But this may be his only way out of situation.
The last stat I heard on this was that 4 people ever in history were able to prove undue hardship through this program. So I wouldn’t count on that
@@willmatz41 did those 4 people have $1000000 in student loans? This is an unusual situation. The only negative is he is gainfully employed with what’s considered a high income. So that’ll be hard to argue
How about just leaving the country USA forever and never come back .. No more debt! 👍
You should react to nurse to riches on how a nurse made 800k in a single year.
Oooh. Link!?
@@DrCellini th-cam.com/video/ko3b03XtMHg/w-d-xo.html
Yes!!!! Do it please!
Yes please do this! Last semester of nursing school student here!! LOVE watching your vids. You and adrianna are the cutest! Sending you both love from Saint Louis!
I saw the video and WTF I'm in shock that nurses have the potentiality to crush a MD/DO's salary... I don't understand how the system allows for doctors to get screwed like that
PA student, originally a pre-med student who’s dream was crushed by the MCAT commenting for the algorithm
3:41 interest is so evil
I am a newly grad Endodontist, and have 720$k in loan. 300k income on average. I dont have an office and dont have a house cause I cant afford it, driving my 2010 Camry probably for another 10+ years hopefully is gonna last me that long. I love what I do and have never had any regrets going into the field. wealth accumulation is very difficult at this day and age, and if thats your intention I do not recommend dentistry anymore.
You should move to Bismarck N D the endontists are so busy it takes 2 months to get in. They charge about $2200 for a root canal. So if they do 15 a week and take 12 weeks off a year that comes to $1,320,000
That’s a big reason I decided to study medicine in Mexico City, Mexico compared to the United States.
Honestly, the conversation around physician debt is never long or detail enough to discuss the factors at play
Undergrad debt
Grad school Debt
Out of state Med School Debt
Bad advise from advisors
The generation you grew up in and the emphasis on obtaining a college degree
Rising costs of education
Criminally high interest rates on some loans
Access to information
etc
The amount can definitely reach > 600K+
The Nontraditional path is typically the most expensive path.
...But yeah 1 million is insane
Sir what is the maximum income an orthodontist can earn in usa? Plz reply. Thanks a lot.
Not only are some of these residencies unpaid but... you have to pay THEM!
My opinion. The insurance companies suck up most of what Dr get today. Example I had a MRI, that charged 4,800. The insurance company paid $98. My co pay was 0. This went through from registration to technician to radiologist. How do they do that?????
So I went to school for 9 months as an LPN and makes $90k/yr cause of overtime and bonuses. I know RN makes $150k and up.
Holy Pete! I somewhat agree with Ramsey but he’s also the same person that states you can attend college without loans….I’m thinking this guy had oodles of debt from other things related to school? Did he max his loan any to include housing, and just basic living expenses? Inquiring minds want to know!!
I've attended community college without loans. Does that count?
@@sean2044 Please how did you do it?
As a nurse for 20yrs my wages have been flat for years... Corporate America broked the unions in the 80s and 90s...so we have little bargaining power.....upper middle class was silent.....now Corporate America is coming for you.....buying up practices, and limiting admiting privileges unless you work for them.... I curious to see how this plays out.
20years ago I graduated with $200000 in debt from Dental School. Got super lucky and had my 3 years of specialty training paid for by the government. Now the graduates will come out with $600000 easy. You add three years of specialty and you are looking at well over $1,000,000. I think kids are better off going to trade school tbh.
I believe orthodontic residency requires hour to pay to be in it. You don’t get paid
I'm not a youtube dentist but i'm a dental student I love talking about this stuff I'd love the opportunity to talk Dr. Cellini! I make dental school videos on my channel you were one of the people I watched when I was pre-med and inspired me to start my youtube journey
Not for anything but Dietitians have to PAY for their "internship" or residency and make no income during that year.... only for a year, but still, it's criminal not to pay people for working!!! Poor guy.. those loans are on another level!
Newly graduated dentist here. Private dental schools can require as much as 400k (sometimes more) in loans. Most ortho residency are not paid and charge tuition and could be an additional 200k. So I can see 600k but idk how he got to a million. Makes me feel a little better about my loans 😬.
Sir how much do you earn as a dentist?plz reply. Thanks a lot.
Private dental schools can require 400k in tuition ONLY before interest. With interest and living expenses it could go up to 600k-650k. Then tack on an unpaid Ortho residency for 75k a year for 3 years, and continued interest, that's a mil easy.
@@zzzzzzzzzz098 sir how many years will it take for an orthodontist to pay off all his student loans?
@@pikusarker1359 Can't answer that. It's different for everyone. Where you live, how much rent you pay, how much money you make, how much student debt you have, are you on a loan repayment plan, etc, it's all varied for the individual.
With cost of living he could have racked up another 100-200k. And the remaining difference could be his under grad dept 🥶. Can’t be more thankful that I just got accepted into a state dental school
This is why I did Engineering and not Medicine
Interest is not allowed in Islam to protect people from falling into this dark hole.
When I see videos like this, I am extra grateful to be living in Denmark where education is free and we even get paid to go..
Exactly! That’s how it should be. Instead of shipping in doctors from overseas we could pay students to go to medical school
Same in Germany.
We also make $100k more than you, at least in my specialty. So as good as graduating debt free would have been, I prefer my higher salary that pays my student loan in 5 years and then I get to keep it.
Your school isn't free. You have the highest tax rate in the world. Your taxes pay for you "free" education.
I would much rather pay 40-50% income tax and then have at least somewhat equal opportunities for everyone when it comes to education, as well as free healthcare and other social securities than having lots of people dealing with debt due to illness or education. That's a price I'm very willing to pay for equal opportunity and peace of mind..
Holly smokes that's so depressing! I can't even imagine going to school for yrs then graduate owning that amt just starting your career. How sad. He should of been watching your videos.i wonder how many yrs he went to school? I love when u react to other videos. Your so cool.i feel bad for him. He should of picked a different field or school.😢
Dr. Cellini's videos didn't exist when he began dental school.
his interest is 5800 a month???? omg this is insane
In Colombia ALL RESIDENCY AND FELLOWSHIP PROGRAMS HAVE TO BE PAYED BY THE STUDENTS
Here in India government medical College is cheap and good it cost you nearly 1200 dollar each year for 5 year and if you come from economically backward section it will be going to half the amount you pay so we don't have any student loan on us if we study from government but it is very hard to get into that
I hope this guy watches your videos, I think you have way better advice.
That being said, it is still crazy to me how you have to pay so much money to obtain a career here in the states. It’s sad. Hopefully something changes in the future.
So I know it’s National Rad Tech Week! So did you do anything for you IR techs this week?
My state just made college free. I’m going back for dental hygienist.
The schools have enjoyed 20 years of profiteering off the students. No more. On line college offer MD degrees. To up grade my pharmacist degree to MD? About $30k then costs of internship, residency etc. The point being, education should not be expensive, it’s free on the internet, as information is everywhere. It’s time the brick and mortar schools provide low tuition.
Well some dental schools are over 80k per years (Midwestern). Plus housing and living expenses can be 30k per year. So just in loans it can be 110k per year. Plus 4 years of interest on that. Plus interest on it during however long residency is. And if Dr. C is right about dental residents/fellows not getting paid or having to pay, then extra loans for that and interest. $1mil would be about right. That's insane.
Reporter: Hey Austin Powers, what will you do with one million dollar ransom money you received from the united nations?
Austin Powers: [With the Austin Powers smile] Pay off my dental school
I study medicine in Rome in english and I do have some american classmates. We pay 2000€ per year. Why more american students don't study in Europe? It is so much cheaper, and the education is just as good.
@Emily Millet 😂😂
For students with MD and DO degrees obtained from US med schools, the national match rates are comparable (around 90%). For IMGs its 50-60%
How much doctor earns in rome?
Here early! thanks for the great content👍👍
Thanks man!
Loved the vid
My SIL got accepted to 2 schools. One will cost 400k and the other 600k. She wants to go to the 600k cause she wants to have fun too 🤦🏻♀️
One of the hardest realities was the interest started to kick in as soon as someone takes the loan out. How can they do this to students!!?? With fully known that, they can't pay it back right away because they are still studying (that's why they take loans). Such pure evil
Nice video reacts . Thank you 👍
ER DOC HERE !!!!! AS I SAID BEFORE I HAVE 500K in Loans ! Will make a video about it soon.
Sir how many years will it take for you to pay off all your student loans? Plz reply.
@@pikusarker1359 WELL MY GOOD SIR ! I WILL BE MAKING A VIDEO ON THAT. BUT THE PLAN IS NO MORE THAN 3-4 YEARS. I KNOW IT SOUNDS CRAZY BUT MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT ME AND DONT HAVE MY WIFE WHO IS SUPER AMAZING WITH MONEY. THE KEY IS SIMPLE CONTINUE TO LIVE LIKE A RESIDENT AND THROW ALL YOUR MONEY AT IT FRO 3 YEARS. :)
MARK MY WORDS !!!!!!
@@FacundoMD sir how much you will be making as a doctor? Plz reply. Thanks a lot.
Another profession that requires a doctorates, but does not pay a doctorates salary is a Clinical Psychologist.
What were you thinking?
I wasn't thinking
They make well over $250,000 a year
Hey Dr. Cellini love the content! Should I subscribe?
You better!
@@DrCellini Done
I love that you are speaking on this. My daughter (she's 15) currently aspires to be an anesthesiologist. It's to hard to encourage her to pursue a profession that has the potential to put her in massive amounts of debt.
Have her consider CNA (nurse anesthetist!) it’s an advanced nursing degree and they do everything an MD does :) the journey is just as competitive and difficult but significantly cheaper
The debt should be far less with medicine and the income far more for anesthesiology.
*CRNA
Massive difference.
@@wannacashmeoutside Respect for what you do, but that comment just isn't true. It wouldn't even logically make sense that some of the best and brightest students work and train and study for thousands of additional hours to get an MD just to get the same results as a CRNA. There is a clear difference, and you should be embracing the career you chose, not trying to make it something it's not.
Thank you! I will definitely mention this too her 🙂
Who does your vid editing
He’ll make more money later, the more you pay on principal, the more the interest goes down. Also just a nugget of wisdom, if you even hit the tax bracket of 30% you don’t pay 30% on the whole income. Just the amount per tax bracket ☺️
Of course it is extreme though yeah, hope the best for this guy.
also, he could accept a job that could help him negotiate or pay some of that debt off in addition to his income. My husband did that in his large debt from medical school. Hope he uses his resources wisely!
If the national average was 3000 patients for every overworked under paid Doctor and that Doc got paid $ 333.33 from that estimate of each his her patients then one could possibly pay off $1 million
I wonder how his patients would feel if they had to pay it that's only $27.78 a month for 12 months if I was one of them I would not mind paying
And here I am feeling ashamed of my $30,000 in student debt...
30k can be easily paid off if you are from STEM
SCAM!!!!!! HOLD schools ACCOUNTABLE!!!!!!
They should be talking to Joey Hyden.
Love the Ramsey show. Thats some student loan though😅💸🙈
Won't these loan consolidation companies help? Why hasn't he at least entertained that option?
Loans holds me back
They are not to be taken lightly
@@DrCellini pun intended?
1 MILLION DOLLARS!
💵 💲 🤑 💸 💴 💱 💵 💲
🚑 Love 💞 reacts!
🚑 Love 💞 invest, finance, debt & all other 💰 💸 💲 subject matters.
🚑 Love your variety of videos 🎥
do you have a good resource to confirm that a person is qualifying for the public service forgiveness?
The problem is there is no resource to actually know that you qualify lol. You can check out requirements at studentaid.gov
@@DrCellini Could you tell me the percentage difference from what you saw between academic vs private practice IR salaries? I unfortunately will be in the 500-600k area when I complete (medical school high tuition) so I am just trying to find out what my options would be. Thanks
Dr. Cellini I was recently diagnosed with Ligma please help me understand what this means
Lol
@@DrCellini hahaha be honest, you googled it
if yur $1M in student loan debt, you better be a politician, not a doctor.
And keep in mind that these "students" are among the best and brightest..give me a break. He could have started a business for a fraction of that amount and purchased a franchise. Wow, the naivete of these people is unbelievable. But remember he is a doctor....
I mean, we do need people to go into those fields, so something should be done about the criminally high cost. Also, they become "rich kid" professions because bright, middle class students can't handle the amount of debt.
I'm graduating undergrad in 1 month and have 30k in loans already 😔 fml
Despite the Economic crisis its still a good time to start up an investment.
Serious investments!
Man that Dave guys hates debt 😂
Hello Dr
I would off myself if I was $1 million dollars in debt….I’m $7,000 in debt with school loans and that’s killing me now😭 AND IM STILL IN SCHOOL…….
Good thing you are a ways away from 1 mil!
And I have a new baby niece in Australia
Doc do u game bro? Sick curved monitor
Oh my that is a lot, love the scrubs. Can you please give me a shoutout please
A shoutout? But you are never here early 😏
@@DrCellini I am
Those scrubs are nice
Dr c, thank u for this video I am a huge fan of u and Dave Ramsey. I would love your opinion on my situation. I am transitioning from a 20 year career where I have reached max potential at 60k annually. I have been accepted to Med school with a tuition of 200k. I have been verbally assured of a 3 year residency making 60k annually plus 10k paid for family health insurance throughout the residency. Med school plus supplies and 18 months of rent for the first 2 years and interest will be about 300k. If I just stayed in my career 7 years x 60k = 420 income or the school route is 400 cost but after 5 years of work at 200k annual income I should be clear. Beyond all the reasons desiring to pursue Med school, is this a very foolish choice?
How many years will it take for you to pay off all your student loans?plz reply.
@@pikusarker1359 I’m going to pay 400000 off in 5 years (6700/month)
@@cathy9279 mam how much you will be making as a doctor?
@@pikusarker1359 300k
@@cathy9279 mam after tax what will be your take home pay?
Could 'he' be actually including his wife to be's student debt?
Early 🙌
Gang gang
Dave comes from the generation that was handed everything to them during those times. Millennials and Gen-Z have not had anywhere near the wealth opportunities that Dave’s generation had. It’s not uncommon to be 130k to 160k as a phd student on their path to become a professor and I can only imagine how much it is for dental and medical students with the former probably owing more than 6 figures.