14-28 custom cassette user here so that gives me easy climbing and good overall flat speeds. This is due to heavy winds here in Southern Ontario were there is not much climbing, only a few hills . Very well made video!!
Awesome idea. I’ve never been able to understand why they don’t make touring cassettes in the 14-32, 14-34 or higher configurations. There’s probably a big market for them.
Depends on your preferred cadence, as well as the size of your big ring. When I have a 54t, I would only ever get into 11-13 on downhills. And its nice to have that but not as nice as small gaps 14-15-16-17-19 etc on the flats where you’ll spend a lot more time. Cycling is awesome! Go on an adventure today or tmr!
I think what you mean is how some cassette makers carry the 1 t jumps too far up and then purposefully make the jumps too large on the big side. That’s why I like Shimano’s 11-40 cassette so much. Its pretty evenly stepped but not perfectly, in a good way. You can use the 15-17-19-21 cogs as close step cruising gears with a larger chainring, like 44-52, getting a good chainline. And reserve 11 and 13 for bombing downhill or standing up to grind on flats to get some blood circulation every few minutes. Then flick it in the small ring and have that amazing 40t for climbing steep stuff. I swear I like to go fast I just prefer a ridiculously high cadence 😂
I love experimenting with gear ratios. Yes, custom build the cassette. Yes, use the wolf tooth road link. Another thing I use is WickWerx chain rings. They have a 33x41 that keeps me in the sweet spot all the time. I do not like cross chaining so I do not use one by.
Great video. I run a 48/12-30 on my road bike which gets me up and down anywhere in the area I usually ride. I don't live in the Alps so have no need for the 50/11 combo.
Brilliant, exactly what I intend on doing but with a Ultegra RX800 derailleur. One thing though, you can buy the 14-15-16 cogs individually (for 15€ in Germany, ymmv), no need to get the entire cassette (albeit it has the second 18t cog variant some swap into their 11-46 setups).
Peeling Pedaler, I hope you reconsider your information about road bikes. Road bikes are still among the most efficient man powered transportation in the world. They offer an unparalleled symbiosis of a fusion between man and machine. My neighbor was shell-shocked from the first pedal stroke of a modern road bike. Especially, something like a "Cipollini RB1K The One." However, the best balance for someone like me who like riding down long staircases is the Cipollini MCM All Road. Especially in dealing with city potholes. Ever watch the speeds achieved @ The Paris-Roubaix? However, your information about the rear cassettes, being too small, is accurate! You have among the best information, out there. I would rate it as the top 3 information the internet has to offer on cassettes. The unimaginative bicycle manufacturers have duped the world by producing useless 11T, 12T, and the like= small tooth cassettes. They are totally inefficient and they should be all be deprecated! The magic, to me, was always the big chainrings (or the equivalent) and big cassettes. The most ideal smallest cogset ought to be no less than 14, 16, or even higher! Below, you will see a size 23T cogset. Most manufacturers have it wrong and so backwards! Aside from your comment, about road bikes, your review isn't bad. Below, with the inclusion of your video, is among the most important truth you will found out about the dismal inefficiency of bicycle pedalling, major bicycle manufacturers ... has pedaled us to: A) m.th-cam.com/video/uFuN1A625p4/w-d-xo.html B) m.th-cam.com/video/_4FF_1brXwA/w-d-xo.html I been saying this for years, finally, the truth has been gradually coming out. Please, folks, write to these major bicycle component manufacturers like Campagnolo, Shimano, SRAM, Miche, etc. Send them a link to these 3 crucial videos. Help deprecate depressive useless and inefficient bicycle pedalling. In many instances, the right gearing and cassettes can help obviate the need for electric bikes (unless, you really need the assistance :)).
I am tossing the 11 and going with the 12, I'm never in an 11 and usually I don't pedal down hill anyway. I'm evaluating all my bikes and probably I'm going to change all the cassettes to so I can spin up hills.
Is this on a 40t cassette? I'd rather go with 13t, 14t, 15t than 12, 13, 15, if that's what you're doing. because with 12, 13, 15, you still have the 15-13 jump, which sucks.
how about a good old triple chainring setup, like a 48-36-26? That would solve a lot of problems and require less hacking, less forcing of things to work outside their intended range. Only downside is you'd need a new front derailleur and shifter
I agree with your sentiment, but for modern drop bar bikes which come with a 2 speed shifter, front derailleur, and 2x crankset, the need to replace the front brifter, front derailleur, and crankset can be a hassle, and may even require a new bottom bracket to account for chain line issues
Only maybe needed if you're shredding KOMs on Strava or racing. But we tourists and adventurers do not need our low gears stripped away for higher gears for apparently no reason.
I bought a 11-40 and the first four cogs from a 14-28. I don't know when I will install it and how it will work on my local, very steep, roads. Since I already have 46-30 cranks, I think my ideal cassette would have been 13-38, or 13-40. I mostly coast downhill, but I reckon 46-14 is a low highest gear.
It’s all about what your cruising speed, cadence And chainring size is. This will determine what cassette cogs you’re using most often while cruising, when small steps are most beneficial. For me at the time of making this vid, it was the 11-15 cogs with the 36t chainring. But as you can see I moved to the 50t big ring so it made sense to ditch the 11 and 13 and put more cog choices just a bit easier than that, hence 14-15-16-17-19. I’ve actually moved on away from this setup years ago. I ran a 46/30 with the 11-40 cassette for a while. Loved it and rarely ran out of low gears, even in the mountains. Now I’m back to 1x with a 42t up front and 11-40 because 1x is just easier to maintain for courier work. Sometimes I miss the low 30x40 ratio and I’m tired of tinkering. And I still just want one gear lower for super steep stuff. So I’m eventually gonna try 44/26 - with chainrings from White Industries or Rene Herse - with the 11/40. I plan to go GRX di2 2x11 for this and modify the rear derailleur a bit to handle the extra slack. But the di2 will allow it to work like a 1x system with synchro shift. Should be pretty sweet. There are some ridiculously steep fire where I live roads I want to winch up and explore and this should do the trick.
Most people look at gearing and fitness for that matter as an ego weapon, and the manufacturers know this. Everyone is either getting fatter or fitter and these spinny gears are great for all of us!
Ive been wanting to do this for a while, now that Im running a 1x on my "gravel" bike think Im gonna try 14-19 in one tooth increments then skip teeth up to a 42 if I feel like I need more speed going downhill then Ill just swap out and throw the 11 and 13 lock rings back on, right now Im stuck between a 15 to 18t jump I feel like I need to be in a 17 or 16t for a comfortable long distance/cruising pace. 14-15-16-17-18-19-23-28-32-37-42
Great video.... Shimano really need to wake the fuck up, and start supplying us ordinary folks with suitable gearing... Only pro racers need 11 & 12 tooth top gear ratios....
Shimano sells the individual sprockets and lockring cogs (14T) for these cassettes. here are the part numbers. Not all shops would have it but your LBS can probably order it from Shimano: I like this idea a lot btw... I use the 11-42T with my 2x 34/50T Chainrings.... 16T - Y1Y916000 15T - Y1Y915100 14T - Y1Y914100 Lockring
Thats a nice "Hack". Been looking at the Sun Race cassettes, but who dafuq needs an 11 cog on a cassette with a 40 to 50 cog setup. Id rather have the smaller steps in between the gears like most of us here. 14 Shoud do it. I use my Mountain Bike for _Mountains_ , and even when going down again a 11 cog is not really necessary. Come on manufacturers, someone pls produce the "niche" cassette....
awesome, i didn't notice the 14 until i watched. I was looking for how you put the 40 on, i have a 42 coming for my road bike. Very interesting. I will see how it performs compared to my 34 and because of you i will pay attention to the feel between the smaller cogs. Right now my 34 is fine. I am wondering how the wolf tooth will perform when i change the wheels, 2 sets, one with 11-42 and the other with 11-34. Commuting vs. trail. Do you think there will be much adjustment? Just a B screw? I have a compact set up front. 50-34 i think. Nice you got that working real nice. Very frustrating thing for me to do, we'll see how i do when my cassette arrives.
I’ve never put a 42 on a 2x bike so it’s hard to say. I’ve seen some people do it though and they like how it works. But, I’d rather have the slightly tighter jumps on the low end of the 40 than the extra 2 teeth of the 42. Plus, the 40 will always shift better as less b-screw is needed. The closer the RD is to the axle in the smaller cogs, the more reliable the shifting is. But do report back on how the 42 goes for you. Good luck.
I've been using the 11-42T as well on my 105 Groupset. Now I'm building an R8000 Ultegra Di2 bike and will also go for 11-42T XT Cassette. Woolftooth has the special "RoadLink DM" now for R8000 or R7000 series. I have all the parts and waiting for my wheels to arrive so I can mount them. However, this idea of replacing the 11T 13T 15T with 14,15,16T sounds pretty genial... I'm 60 and can't push the 11T anyway... and am worried about the Derailleur Capacity limit of 39... Now by eliminating the 11 and 13T... that chain length would be much better too. also as I mentioned above, I am hoping to buy the individual cogs for a lot less... 16T part #Y1Y916000, 15T #Y1Y915100, 14T #Y1Y914100 Lockring
I ran it in a race, worked very well. I only had to walk up one hill. The others tired me out. Many wondered how I was still spinning so fast ;-) problem became accidental crosschaining 42 with the 50 up front. It jammed. Not during the race. A solution I will try is adding a second master link. I have another race coming up so we shall see.
Al Harman I’ve been riding my new bike now for a month. R8070 with Di2/hydraulic brakes. I’ve got the 11-42T XT cassette with a Garmin edge 530 communicating with my Di2 system via ANT+ through the wireless adapter (WU111). The best thing is keeping an eye on my gears so the likelihood of cross chaining is totally eliminated. After seeing this video, I’ve also ordered the 14-28T cassette but I’ve been reluctant to build the new combo cassette. One reason is, I’ve been on some long downhill stretches on the highway where I was using the 50-11 gear and I was close to spinning out. It was quite scary. I’m now questioning the wisdom of giving up that gear and thinking what I would have done if I only had 50-14 as my highest gear. Another thing is I’m contemplating trying a 11-40T cassette instead of the 11-42T. For one thing the new bike is a lot lighter (7.9kg vs the old 10.6kg) so I’m finding the 34-42T gear too slow on the uphills yet the next lowest gear 34-37T to be too hard... Maybe 34-40T would be sufficient. Unfortunately, these cassettes are not that cheap and my pocket is starting to feel it... so I’m hesitant to try it yet. Any thoughts?
Oh btw, I also tried to save money and order the 14, 15, 16 and 17T cogs separately but the stores here in Canada just didn’t have access to them. So unfortunately I spent C$120 to buy the whole cassette 14-28T and now I’m not sure if I should use it for reasons i described below.
To get a cassette to shift well, it needs shift ramps specific to the relationships between the cogs, which make switching out cogs not possible most of the time. If you can imagine how many different combinations a cassette could be (hundreds, maybe thousands), that’s really how many “kits” would need to be produced to offer everyone what they want. It’s better to design the cassette yourself find someone with a CNC machine to have it made. But that will be very costly, and since a cassette is a wear item, not worth to have it done every year or so. What really angers me is how Shimano won’t make their road and mtn components interchangeable. Because this would actually save them money and make it easier for adventure riders to get a gear inch lower than 20. Perhaps the best option is to forget derailleurs and go with a gearbox such as pinion or Rohloff. Shimano will learn to give us what we need when they start losing enough business.
These are made for junior races, where the UCI places an arbitrary limit on the hardest gearing allowed. As racers they don't need the easy gears we do. Miche does offer the cassettes you're looking for - never tried them.
@@eloann I can ride every steepest climbs on the world on my 36/25 even Artzamendi or other climbs with multiple kilometers with >14%, but I need the 32 to warm up, turn legs fastly or easily, not necessarly to climb.
@@peelingpedaler3635 It depends of the bracket ratio, but there is not interest to do that, it would be unconfortable and too hard for the knees and back. That's just that I have never riden a steepest climb with multiple kilometers on a road bike with a road bracket. But I've ridden many steepest climb shorter
AGREE, that dickhead isn't worth the time, this vid was brilliant and explained clearly, even the hardest learners would pick this up, durianriders way of explaining things is more himself trying to make others look stupid, just as he no Pro he is also no mechanic
Have you or anyone else done similar BUT with the lower gears; in other words releasing the riveted cogs and inserting other cogs? Is THAT feasible? I ride a recumbent trike and NEVER would use anything like a 16 or lower number but would like to add gears to an 11- 42. Hope you can help me?
This isn’t a good idea because it will be difficult to find cogs that match the shifting ramps of the cassette in question. It may work, but it will shift so poorly, you’ll want to give up right away, and you’ll have wasted your money. I’ll be posting a video series on my new drivetrain I’m putting together. It has even lower gears than this setup. Stay tuned!
Good video. this is old. I am currently using a 11-34 cassette 12 speed durace on a 9200 Di-2 groupset. Do you think this kind of alteration would work?
I don’t have much insight about 12s and up. But its taking a really, really long time for brands to standardize 12s. Shimano chains do not even work at all with Sram gears! I do like the idea of 1x12 if your riding style doesn’t need too much gear range because I do not like steps over 14% near the middle of the cassette. But the gaps are fine for mtb which makes Sram Eagle perfectly appropriate. I do not like the steps of any of the 12s road cassettes. They’re often uneven and often have unnecessarily tight steps near the big cogs, wasting range. Also I do not like the cost. Still way, way too high for really unproven innovations. Can’t believe some will pay $6000 for a group set. I recommend 2x11 for road, gravel and touring for at least another 1-2 years. 13s is coming faster than 12s can be standardized.
@@peelingpedaler3635Had not heard from you. but decided to switch to SRAM force wide groupset which gives me a 43/30 in the front and 10/36 in the back. Works pretty well but a little noisy.
Absolutely. All 11 speed Shimano or compatible cassettes are made to will work with any standard Shimano compatible 9-10-11 hubs. You'll likely need to add a 1.8mm spacer to take up some of the slack.
Peeling Pedaler Not exactly. All 11sp MTB cassettes will fit 10sp hub bodies. Only certain 11sp road cassettes will fit (namely: HG700 or HG800). The difference is concave machining into the carrier/spider of the top 3 cogs. Don’t mean to criticize, just pointing it out. Love this hack btw, great idea for a commuter or touring type bike that just does not need top end speed!
Since the biggest cog is the same size, no need to adjust it. As long as your chainrings remain the same size, and as long as shifting performance in the biggest cogs was adequate with your 11-28, you're good to go.
I like a cadence of around 100-105. 105 with 50x14 yields 30mph. 90 feels a bit too slow for me. If you prefer 90 or lower and you want to go over 25mph, this might not be the setup for you. Though, it’s worth asking: Do you know how much power it takes to go 25mph on a flat with no wind? The only time you’ll be going over 25 is on a negative grade or with a huge tailwind, or in a fast group ride or race. This is a gearing setup for touring or adventure rigs, not exactly for fitness or racing.
Very nice but very expensive also. 10-speed and especially 11-speed cassettes (even from lower gruppos) are pretty pricey to build one from two or even three.
Not really that expensive when you put it into perspective. Americans pay $150 for 1 month of car insurance. Getting the perfect gearing for your bike is only $150 for 2+ years. Oh, and bike insurance can be had for $10/mo.
Shimano sells the individual sprockets and lockring cogs (14T) for these cassettes. here are the part numbers. Not all shops would have it but your LBS can probably order it from Shimano: I like this idea a lot btw... I use the 11-42T with my 2x 34/50T Chainrings.... 16T - Y1Y916000 15T - Y1Y915100 14T - Y1Y914100 Lockring
Nice video. I thought it was impossible to use more than 34t cassette. Thanks for you idea. I never use 11, 13, 15 anyway. I'm assuming you can use 11-42 with the Roadlink and GS Ultegra 8000 deraileur toor?
I got my Madone in 2012. At the time, it was one of the first to come with a 30 in the rear. The salesman said it had a 28, I said NOPE. He counted them and was blown away. I never understood why people don't just get the biggest you can get. If you are not a pro, you should get at least a 32. It won't hurt you to go that low. Worst case scenario, you never need it. I always like hearing the non-pro say, "ya man, I spin out with the wrong gears." No dude, you do not spin out. Relax.
Well, another reason to have a smaller cassette with a lot of cogs is that you have smaller jumps between cogs. So if your tour or commute is very flat, it makes perfect sense to get a smaller cassette.
Not likely. But it's worth it to go to a bike shop and ask. Or, you could buy this: www.thebikesmiths.com/products/sunrace-csm680-cassette?variant=46266461458&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5LbWBRDCARIsALAbcOdNU-kIVcQQjKHL0SFdFJ8ymxvPR9nnJXnOaQz_g6xdrv-foAQ_BrsaAqf7EALw_wcB And then buy an 8 speed mtb rear derailleur compatible with your shifters. I think all Shimano and Sram 8 speed shifters and derailleurs are mtb/road compatible. This should all cost around $50. It should work ok, but the shift jumps will be awful, IMO. If you're not poor, I'd say get a new wheel with an 11 speed freehub that supports the XD driver. And then buy a 10-42 cassette, and Sram 1x road derailleur (Force1 or Rival1). You will be very, very happy this way.
The road bike in general is an obsolete machine with very limited function. I stopped riding road bikes with road frames and switched to a MTB or cross frames for all the numerous options of wheels and gearings. Also, mtb rear derailleur and braking technology is so far ahead of road for the price that it makes little sense to ride a road frame.
This sweeping information on all road bikes, is incorrect. This defies what the Cipollini All Road is about. Those who live in the city, can appreciate this, especially, with road tires: m.th-cam.com/video/gyaZO6OiLIg/w-d-xo.html
Road bikes are primarily for city travels, too. MTB (bikes) are unquestionably the durable bad trail and road King. Like having sneakers and boots, it is ideal to have both.
Great mechanics. I dont understand why your derrailleur 105 is so far from the sprocket, I tried to screw to its extremity the B-screw and it is still touching my 11-34 sprocket. Like this one th-cam.com/video/X4a32bQMVo0/w-d-xo.html Do you have any tip ?
Trying to show you the side silhouette of a cassette - how it's cone shaped. The "cone" of a road cassette is shaped more like a composite volcano while a mountain cassette is more like a shield volcano. If you've forgotten your volcano types, look at this image here: owlcation.com/stem/4-Different-Types-of-Volcanoes-Cinder-Cones-Lava-Domes-Shield-and-Composite-Volcanoes Anyway, because the cassettes are shaped differently, it's usually difficult to get a rear derailleur working for one that's designed for the other.
Good presentation. However, even if you have a 40 cassette tooth, you are still spinning the same wattage albeit easier. Using a rough example here: My point is that if a person's FTP is 170 and if they need negotiate a long 9% climb, they need to spin at well above their FTP. They will not be able to sustain it. No amount of cassette addition will fix that. I am referring to Harley and his followers comments to just get a 40 cassette and spin up the doi. Not as simple. There needs to be some good fitness to start.
These are the conditions I am trying to meet: 1. Have a small ratio of at most .85. 2. Have a large ratio of at least 3.5 3. Have gears less than 10% apart while cruising from 15-25mph at 90rpm 4. Keep a crankset to be used with a road FD 5. Triple cranksets are weird. 6. Must shift well. I haul a lot of weight up very steep grades, one is 18% for a few hundred meters and I sometimes have 100+ pounds on my bike.. My only other option would be the get an 11-32 cassette, a 38/24 mtb crankset, xtr di2 derailleurs, and ultegra di2 shifters. But the di2 shift buttons are too small while using big thick winter gloves. If you know of a better way to meet all the requirements I listed, let me know. Do not assume that every road bike must be a training or race bike with road gearing. If I were training with no weight, I'd be very, very happy with 11-32 and 50/34 where I live. But like I imply in the video, 50x11 and 50x12 are virtually useless. I can lose 50x13 too in most cases.
Gotcha. Understood. Best wishes to you. I would suggest perhaps a triple ring. The smallest ring with the 40 cassette would be doable but you would be going super slow up a hill. (perhaps slower than walking).
I had a 44/32/22 with an 11-32 cassette and I didn't like it. Too much conscious effort for city riding. It was great for long day rides though. Actually, if you watch one of Harley's latest vids (I forget which channel), he is in his lowest combo of 22/40 at below 90rpm and spinning 300watts. Steep grades and heavy bike. I think most people just can't fathom how steep grades can be and how heavy a bike can be.
I understand but Harley's threshold must be around there (300 watts). Can you imagine a cyclist with a 170 HP spinning at 300 watts for an extended period of time? I am trying to say that a big cassette will be a big help but you need to have fitness.
My fitness isn't at an elite level like Harley's, which is why I can't hold 300 watts for an hour, but I can hold 400 watts for a minute or two to get my groceries up a short, steep section. I'm not sure what we're arguing about here, lol.
14-28 custom cassette user here so that gives me easy climbing and good overall flat speeds. This is due to heavy winds here in Southern Ontario were there is not much climbing, only a few hills . Very well made video!!
Cool! And thank you.
Awesome idea. I’ve never been able to understand why they don’t make touring cassettes in the 14-32, 14-34 or higher configurations. There’s probably a big market for them.
Because 11 or 12 is too important for long flats.
Depends on your preferred cadence, as well as the size of your big ring. When I have a 54t, I would only ever get into 11-13 on downhills. And its nice to have that but not as nice as small gaps 14-15-16-17-19 etc on the flats where you’ll spend a lot more time. Cycling is awesome! Go on an adventure today or tmr!
@@peelingpedaler3635 2t are much more useful for my riding. I hate the 1t jumps because it means now i got super large jumps at my big cogs
I think what you mean is how some cassette makers carry the 1 t jumps too far up and then purposefully make the jumps too large on the big side. That’s why I like Shimano’s 11-40 cassette so much. Its pretty evenly stepped but not perfectly, in a good way. You can use the 15-17-19-21 cogs as close step cruising gears with a larger chainring, like 44-52, getting a good chainline. And reserve 11 and 13 for bombing downhill or standing up to grind on flats to get some blood circulation every few minutes. Then flick it in the small ring and have that amazing 40t for climbing steep stuff. I swear I like to go fast I just prefer a ridiculously high cadence 😂
AWESOME idea and practical presentation! I have a Microshift 11-40 cassette, BUT really can not use the 11 and 13 tooth cogs, I like your idea!
Thanks! If you run a 2x on a road bike, and you face hills, this is the only way to go IMO!
I love experimenting with gear ratios. Yes, custom build the cassette. Yes, use the wolf tooth road link. Another thing I use is WickWerx chain rings. They have a 33x41 that keeps me in the sweet spot all the time. I do not like cross chaining so I do not use one by.
Outstanding I have to order the XT cassette now. Thanks
Great video. I run a 48/12-30 on my road bike which gets me up and down anywhere in the area I usually ride. I don't live in the Alps so have no need for the 50/11 combo.
Brilliant, exactly what I intend on doing but with a Ultegra RX800 derailleur. One thing though, you can buy the 14-15-16 cogs individually (for 15€ in Germany, ymmv), no need to get the entire cassette (albeit it has the second 18t cog variant some swap into their 11-46 setups).
Thanks for the info!
Peeling Pedaler, I hope you reconsider your information about road bikes. Road bikes are still among the most efficient man powered transportation in the world. They offer an unparalleled symbiosis of a fusion between man and machine.
My neighbor was shell-shocked from the first pedal stroke of a modern road bike. Especially, something like a "Cipollini RB1K The One."
However, the best balance for someone like me who like riding down long staircases is the Cipollini MCM All Road. Especially in dealing with city potholes.
Ever watch the speeds achieved @ The Paris-Roubaix?
However, your information about the rear cassettes, being too small, is accurate!
You have among the best information, out there.
I would rate it as the top 3 information the internet has to offer on cassettes.
The unimaginative bicycle manufacturers have duped the world by producing useless 11T, 12T, and the like= small tooth cassettes. They are totally inefficient and they should be all be deprecated!
The magic, to me, was always the big chainrings (or the equivalent) and big cassettes.
The most ideal smallest cogset ought to be no less than 14, 16, or even higher!
Below, you will see a size 23T cogset. Most manufacturers have it wrong and so backwards!
Aside from your comment, about road bikes, your review isn't bad.
Below, with the inclusion of your video, is among the most important truth you will found out about the dismal inefficiency of bicycle pedalling, major bicycle manufacturers ... has pedaled us to:
A)
m.th-cam.com/video/uFuN1A625p4/w-d-xo.html
B)
m.th-cam.com/video/_4FF_1brXwA/w-d-xo.html
I been saying this for years, finally, the truth has been gradually coming out.
Please, folks, write to these major bicycle component manufacturers like Campagnolo, Shimano, SRAM, Miche, etc.
Send them a link to these 3 crucial videos.
Help deprecate depressive useless and inefficient bicycle pedalling.
In many instances, the right gearing and cassettes can help obviate the need for electric bikes (unless, you really need the assistance :)).
Tt bikes are even more efficient. Only problem is they aren't as good for those 30 second max power sprints.
I am tossing the 11 and going with the 12, I'm never in an 11 and usually I don't pedal down hill anyway. I'm evaluating all my bikes and probably I'm going to change all the cassettes to so I can spin up hills.
Is this on a 40t cassette? I'd rather go with 13t, 14t, 15t than 12, 13, 15, if that's what you're doing. because with 12, 13, 15, you still have the 15-13 jump, which sucks.
I use it occasionally on my 50t crank. But only to build speed before supertucking.
0:40 Holy crap man! My "Suffer Meter" would have exploded at this point! lol!
lol, Suffer Meter! I like that!
how about a good old triple chainring setup, like a 48-36-26? That would solve a lot of problems and require less hacking, less forcing of things to work outside their intended range. Only downside is you'd need a new front derailleur and shifter
I agree with your sentiment, but for modern drop bar bikes which come with a 2 speed shifter, front derailleur, and 2x crankset, the need to replace the front brifter, front derailleur, and crankset can be a hassle, and may even require a new bottom bracket to account for chain line issues
And at that point, it’s as much or less of a fuss to buy a road link and a larger cassette while leaving everything else the same
Folks that kit up for Zone 1 diddlebops to the coffee shop love hero ratios.
I'm in the 11t cog everytime I set the limit screws of my rear mech
Totally Agree.. No one needs a 50/11...
Only maybe needed if you're shredding KOMs on Strava or racing. But we tourists and adventurers do not need our low gears stripped away for higher gears for apparently no reason.
Thanks for the tutorial.
Thanks for watching!
I bought a 11-40 and the first four cogs from a 14-28. I don't know when I will install it and how it will work on my local, very steep, roads. Since I already have 46-30 cranks, I think my ideal cassette would have been 13-38, or 13-40. I mostly coast downhill, but I reckon 46-14 is a low highest gear.
It’s all about what your cruising speed, cadence
And chainring size is. This will determine what cassette cogs you’re using most often while cruising, when small steps are
most beneficial. For me at the time of making this vid, it was the 11-15 cogs with the 36t chainring. But as you can see I moved to the 50t big ring so it made sense to ditch the 11 and 13 and put more cog choices just a bit easier than that, hence 14-15-16-17-19.
I’ve actually moved on away from this setup years ago. I ran a 46/30 with the 11-40 cassette for a while. Loved it and rarely ran out of low gears, even in the mountains. Now I’m back to 1x with a 42t up front and 11-40 because 1x is just easier to maintain for courier work.
Sometimes I miss the low 30x40 ratio and I’m tired of tinkering. And I still just want one gear lower for super steep stuff. So I’m eventually gonna try 44/26 - with chainrings from White Industries or Rene Herse - with the 11/40. I plan to go GRX di2 2x11 for this and modify the rear derailleur a bit to handle the extra slack. But the di2 will allow it to work like a 1x system with synchro shift. Should be pretty sweet. There are some ridiculously steep fire where I live roads I want to winch up and explore and this should do the trick.
I've often thought of doing this, how come the manufacturer's aren't offering it as an option?? Don't they know everyone is getting fatter? ; )
Most people look at gearing and fitness for that matter as an ego weapon, and the manufacturers know this. Everyone is either getting fatter or fitter and these spinny gears are great for all of us!
Ive been wanting to do this for a while, now that Im running a 1x on my "gravel" bike think Im gonna try 14-19 in one tooth increments then skip teeth up to a 42 if I feel like I need more speed going downhill then Ill just swap out and throw the 11 and 13 lock rings back on, right now Im stuck between a 15 to 18t jump I feel like I need to be in a 17 or 16t for a comfortable long distance/cruising pace. 14-15-16-17-18-19-23-28-32-37-42
Great video.... Shimano really need to wake the fuck up, and start supplying us ordinary folks with suitable gearing... Only pro racers need 11 & 12 tooth top gear ratios....
NO.
Just no. Not a "pro" racer. I'm a middle of the pack CAT3
I use my 11t top gear every day. Actually, I find it inadequate on false flat declines.
I use the 11rear and 50 front but only to build 20mph or higher speed before supertucking
Where did you get a 14 T first position cog and cassette lick ring to suit please?
Ultegra 14-28 cassette. Google it.
Shimano sells the individual sprockets and lockring cogs (14T) for these cassettes. here are the part numbers. Not all shops would have it but your LBS can probably order it from Shimano: I like this idea a lot btw... I use the 11-42T with my 2x 34/50T Chainrings.... 16T - Y1Y916000 15T - Y1Y915100 14T - Y1Y914100 Lockring
Thats a nice "Hack". Been looking at the Sun Race cassettes, but who dafuq needs an 11 cog on a cassette with a 40 to 50 cog setup. Id rather have the smaller steps in between the gears like most of us here. 14 Shoud do it. I use my Mountain Bike for _Mountains_ , and even when going down again a 11 cog is not really necessary. Come on manufacturers, someone pls produce the "niche" cassette....
awesome, i didn't notice the 14 until i watched. I was looking for how you put the 40 on, i have a 42 coming for my road bike. Very interesting. I will see how it performs compared to my 34 and because of you i will pay attention to the feel between the smaller cogs. Right now my 34 is fine. I am wondering how the wolf tooth will perform when i change the wheels, 2 sets, one with 11-42 and the other with 11-34. Commuting vs. trail. Do you think there will be much adjustment? Just a B screw? I have a compact set up front. 50-34 i think. Nice you got that working real nice. Very frustrating thing for me to do, we'll see how i do when my cassette arrives.
I’ve never put a 42 on a 2x bike so it’s hard to say. I’ve seen some people do it though and they like how it works. But, I’d rather have the slightly tighter jumps on the low end of the 40 than the extra 2 teeth of the 42. Plus, the 40 will always shift better as less b-screw is needed. The closer the RD is to the axle in the smaller cogs, the more reliable the shifting is. But do report back on how the 42 goes for you. Good luck.
I've been using the 11-42T as well on my 105 Groupset. Now I'm building an R8000 Ultegra Di2 bike and will also go for 11-42T XT Cassette. Woolftooth has the special "RoadLink DM" now for R8000 or R7000 series. I have all the parts and waiting for my wheels to arrive so I can mount them. However, this idea of replacing the 11T 13T 15T with 14,15,16T sounds pretty genial... I'm 60 and can't push the 11T anyway... and am worried about the Derailleur Capacity limit of 39... Now by eliminating the 11 and 13T... that chain length would be much better too. also as I mentioned above, I am hoping to buy the individual cogs for a lot less... 16T part #Y1Y916000, 15T #Y1Y915100, 14T #Y1Y914100 Lockring
I ran it in a race, worked very well. I only had to walk up one hill. The others tired me out. Many wondered how I was still spinning so fast ;-) problem became accidental crosschaining 42 with the 50 up front. It jammed. Not during the race. A solution I will try is adding a second master link. I have another race coming up so we shall see.
Al Harman I’ve been riding my new bike now for a month. R8070 with Di2/hydraulic brakes. I’ve got the 11-42T XT cassette with a Garmin edge 530 communicating with my Di2 system via ANT+ through the wireless adapter (WU111). The best thing is keeping an eye on my gears so the likelihood of cross chaining is totally eliminated.
After seeing this video, I’ve also ordered the 14-28T cassette but I’ve been reluctant to build the new combo cassette. One reason is, I’ve been on some long downhill stretches on the highway where I was using the 50-11 gear and I was close to spinning out. It was quite scary. I’m now questioning the wisdom of giving up that gear and thinking what I would have done if I only had 50-14 as my highest gear.
Another thing is I’m contemplating trying a 11-40T cassette instead of the 11-42T. For one thing the new bike is a lot lighter (7.9kg vs the old 10.6kg) so I’m finding the 34-42T gear too slow on the uphills yet the next lowest gear 34-37T to be too hard... Maybe 34-40T would be sufficient. Unfortunately, these cassettes are not that cheap and my pocket is starting to feel it... so I’m hesitant to try it yet.
Any thoughts?
Oh btw, I also tried to save money and order the 14, 15, 16 and 17T cogs separately but the stores here in Canada just didn’t have access to them. So unfortunately I spent C$120 to buy the whole cassette 14-28T and now I’m not sure if I should use it for reasons i described below.
Instead of making "make your own custom cassette" kit, manufacturers keep making "you will buy our crappy cassettes, we promise..."
To get a cassette to shift well, it needs shift ramps specific to the relationships between the cogs, which make switching out cogs not possible most of the time. If you can imagine how many different combinations a cassette could be (hundreds, maybe thousands), that’s really how many “kits” would need to be produced to offer everyone what they want. It’s better to design the cassette yourself find someone with a CNC machine to have it made. But that will be very costly, and since a cassette is a wear item, not worth to have it done every year or so. What really angers me is how Shimano won’t make their road and mtn components interchangeable. Because this would actually save them money and make it easier for adventure riders to get a gear inch lower than 20. Perhaps the best option is to forget derailleurs and go with a gearbox such as pinion or Rohloff. Shimano will learn to give us what we need when they start losing enough business.
I hope for a 13-32 or 12-32 cassette, I dont understand why they do 14-28 cassette and not 14-32 for example
These are made for junior races, where the UCI places an arbitrary limit on the hardest gearing allowed. As racers they don't need the easy gears we do.
Miche does offer the cassettes you're looking for - never tried them.
@@eloann I can ride every steepest climbs on the world on my 36/25 even Artzamendi or other climbs with multiple kilometers with >14%, but I need the 32 to warm up, turn legs fastly or easily, not necessarly to climb.
@oceanedetotes You can’t with a loaded touring bike, while seated. 14% is not the steepest climb you can find on a tour in mountains.
@@peelingpedaler3635 It depends of the bracket ratio, but there is not interest to do that, it would be unconfortable and too hard for the knees and back.
That's just that I have never riden a steepest climb with multiple kilometers on a road bike with a road bracket. But I've ridden many steepest climb shorter
coming from durianrider's channel...great video...
Thanks for watching and commenting!
AGREE, that dickhead isn't worth the time, this vid was brilliant and explained clearly, even the hardest learners would pick this up, durianriders way of explaining things is more himself trying to make others look stupid, just as he no Pro he is also no mechanic
What a great idea! You happen to know whether I can hack a 9 speed cassette in a similar way?
Probably could but idk exactly what you're going for.
Have you or anyone else done similar BUT with the lower gears; in other words releasing the riveted cogs and inserting other cogs? Is THAT feasible? I ride a recumbent trike and NEVER would use anything like a 16 or lower number but would like to add gears to an 11- 42. Hope you can help me?
This isn’t a good idea because it will be difficult to find cogs that match the shifting ramps of the cassette in question. It may work, but it will shift so poorly, you’ll want to give up right away, and you’ll have wasted your money. I’ll be posting a video series on my new drivetrain I’m putting together. It has even lower gears than this setup. Stay tuned!
Good video. this is old. I am currently using a 11-34 cassette 12 speed durace on a 9200 Di-2 groupset. Do you think this kind of alteration would work?
I don’t have much insight about 12s and up. But its taking a really, really long time for brands to standardize 12s. Shimano chains do not even work at all with Sram gears!
I do like the idea of 1x12 if your riding style doesn’t need too much gear range because I do not like steps over 14% near the middle of the cassette. But the gaps are fine for mtb which makes Sram Eagle perfectly appropriate.
I do not like the steps of any of the 12s road cassettes. They’re often uneven and often have unnecessarily tight steps near the big cogs, wasting range. Also I do not like the cost. Still way, way too high for really unproven innovations. Can’t believe some will pay $6000 for a group set.
I recommend 2x11 for road, gravel and touring for at least another 1-2 years. 13s is coming faster than 12s can be standardized.
@@peelingpedaler3635Had not heard from you. but decided to switch to SRAM force wide groupset which gives me a 43/30 in the front and 10/36 in the back. Works pretty well but a little noisy.
Is the 30x36 ratio low enough for you?
I am strictly using it on the road and for most climbs it helps me keep cadence above 60.@@peelingpedaler3635
You don't need to buy a full cassette, you can buy just the sprockets
Does this cassette fit in 10spd road hubs?
Absolutely. All 11 speed Shimano or compatible cassettes are made to will work with any standard Shimano compatible 9-10-11 hubs. You'll likely need to add a 1.8mm spacer to take up some of the slack.
Peeling Pedaler Not exactly. All 11sp MTB cassettes will fit 10sp hub bodies. Only certain 11sp road cassettes will fit (namely: HG700 or HG800). The difference is concave machining into the carrier/spider of the top 3 cogs.
Don’t mean to criticize, just pointing it out. Love this hack btw, great idea for a commuter or touring type bike that just does not need top end speed!
hi, do you adject the b-tension screw? i am moving from 11-28 to 14-28
Since the biggest cog is the same size, no need to adjust it. As long as your chainrings remain the same size, and as long as shifting performance in the biggest cogs was adequate with your 11-28, you're good to go.
but doesn't that cost you huge on top end speed having a 50-14 @ 96 gear inches ? that's like 26mph @ 90rpm ? (Sheldon Brown's calculator)
I like a cadence of around 100-105. 105 with 50x14 yields 30mph. 90 feels a bit too slow for me. If you prefer 90 or lower and you want to go over 25mph, this might not be the setup for you. Though, it’s worth asking: Do you know how much power it takes to go 25mph on a flat with no wind? The only time you’ll be going over 25 is on a negative grade or with a huge tailwind, or in a fast group ride or race. This is a gearing setup for touring or adventure rigs, not exactly for fitness or racing.
Very nice but very expensive also. 10-speed and especially 11-speed cassettes (even from lower gruppos) are pretty pricey to build one from two or even three.
Not really that expensive when you put it into perspective. Americans pay $150 for 1 month of car insurance. Getting the perfect gearing for your bike is only $150 for 2+ years. Oh, and bike insurance can be had for $10/mo.
Shimano sells the individual sprockets and lockring cogs (14T) for these cassettes. here are the part numbers. Not all shops would have it but your LBS can probably order it from Shimano: I like this idea a lot btw... I use the 11-42T with my 2x 34/50T Chainrings.... 16T - Y1Y916000 15T - Y1Y915100 14T - Y1Y914100 Lockring
Thanks.. :)
Nice video. I thought it was impossible to use more than 34t cassette. Thanks for you idea. I never use 11, 13, 15 anyway. I'm assuming you can use 11-42 with the Roadlink and GS Ultegra 8000 deraileur toor?
*lock ring...
I got my Madone in 2012. At the time, it was one of the first to come with a 30 in the rear. The salesman said it had a 28, I said NOPE. He counted them and was blown away.
I never understood why people don't just get the biggest you can get. If you are not a pro, you should get at least a 32. It won't hurt you to go that low. Worst case scenario, you never need it.
I always like hearing the non-pro say, "ya man, I spin out with the wrong gears." No dude, you do not spin out. Relax.
Well, another reason to have a smaller cassette with a lot of cogs is that you have smaller jumps between cogs. So if your tour or commute is very flat, it makes perfect sense to get a smaller cassette.
@@peelingpedaler3635 Then all of the sudden someone says, "let's go ride some hills this weekend."
I have the basic diverge it's only 8 speed clarris would this work or something similar or would my wheel be too small?(hub)
Not likely. But it's worth it to go to a bike shop and ask. Or, you could buy this: www.thebikesmiths.com/products/sunrace-csm680-cassette?variant=46266461458&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5LbWBRDCARIsALAbcOdNU-kIVcQQjKHL0SFdFJ8ymxvPR9nnJXnOaQz_g6xdrv-foAQ_BrsaAqf7EALw_wcB
And then buy an 8 speed mtb rear derailleur compatible with your shifters. I think all Shimano and Sram 8 speed shifters and derailleurs are mtb/road compatible. This should all cost around $50. It should work ok, but the shift jumps will be awful, IMO.
If you're not poor, I'd say get a new wheel with an 11 speed freehub that supports the XD driver. And then buy a 10-42 cassette, and Sram 1x road derailleur (Force1 or Rival1). You will be very, very happy this way.
The road bike in general is an obsolete machine with very limited function. I stopped riding road bikes with road frames and switched to a MTB or cross frames for all the numerous options of wheels and gearings. Also, mtb rear derailleur and braking technology is so far ahead of road for the price that it makes little sense to ride a road frame.
Road bikes are for road racing. Anyone still riding a pure road bike for pleasure are greatly missing out on the other options available.
This sweeping information on all road bikes, is incorrect.
This defies what the Cipollini All Road is about.
Those who live in the city, can appreciate this, especially, with road tires:
m.th-cam.com/video/gyaZO6OiLIg/w-d-xo.html
Road bikes are primarily for city travels, too.
MTB (bikes) are unquestionably the durable bad trail and road King.
Like having sneakers and boots, it is ideal to have both.
Great mechanics. I dont understand why your derrailleur 105 is so far from the sprocket, I tried to screw to its extremity the B-screw and it is still touching my 11-34 sprocket.
Like this one th-cam.com/video/X4a32bQMVo0/w-d-xo.html
Do you have any tip ?
2.50 hand movements LOL WTF r u trying to show us
Trying to show you the side silhouette of a cassette - how it's cone shaped. The "cone" of a road cassette is shaped more like a composite volcano while a mountain cassette is more like a shield volcano. If you've forgotten your volcano types, look at this image here: owlcation.com/stem/4-Different-Types-of-Volcanoes-Cinder-Cones-Lava-Domes-Shield-and-Composite-Volcanoes Anyway, because the cassettes are shaped differently, it's usually difficult to get a rear derailleur working for one that's designed for the other.
2%chain efficiency loss in 17 down probably relates to .000000000001 watts
UN RACER
Good presentation. However, even if you have a 40 cassette tooth, you are still spinning the same wattage albeit easier. Using a rough example here: My point is that if a person's FTP is 170 and if they need negotiate a long 9% climb, they need to spin at well above their FTP. They will not be able to sustain it. No amount of cassette addition will fix that. I am referring to Harley and his followers comments to just get a 40 cassette and spin up the doi. Not as simple. There needs to be some good fitness to start.
These are the conditions I am trying to meet:
1. Have a small ratio of at most .85.
2. Have a large ratio of at least 3.5
3. Have gears less than 10% apart while cruising from 15-25mph at 90rpm
4. Keep a crankset to be used with a road FD
5. Triple cranksets are weird.
6. Must shift well.
I haul a lot of weight up very steep grades, one is 18% for a few hundred meters and I sometimes have 100+ pounds on my bike.. My only other option would be the get an 11-32 cassette, a 38/24 mtb crankset, xtr di2 derailleurs, and ultegra di2 shifters. But the di2 shift buttons are too small while using big thick winter gloves.
If you know of a better way to meet all the requirements I listed, let me know. Do not assume that every road bike must be a training or race bike with road gearing. If I were training with no weight, I'd be very, very happy with 11-32 and 50/34 where I live. But like I imply in the video, 50x11 and 50x12 are virtually useless. I can lose 50x13 too in most cases.
Gotcha. Understood. Best wishes to you. I would suggest perhaps a triple ring. The smallest ring with the 40 cassette would be doable but you would be going super slow up a hill. (perhaps slower than walking).
I had a 44/32/22 with an 11-32 cassette and I didn't like it. Too much conscious effort for city riding. It was great for long day rides though. Actually, if you watch one of Harley's latest vids (I forget which channel), he is in his lowest combo of 22/40 at below 90rpm and spinning 300watts. Steep grades and heavy bike. I think most people just can't fathom how steep grades can be and how heavy a bike can be.
I understand but Harley's threshold must be around there (300 watts). Can you imagine a cyclist with a 170 HP spinning at 300 watts for an extended period of time? I am trying to say that a big cassette will be a big help but you need to have fitness.
My fitness isn't at an elite level like Harley's, which is why I can't hold 300 watts for an hour, but I can hold 400 watts for a minute or two to get my groceries up a short, steep section. I'm not sure what we're arguing about here, lol.
Buy a mountain bike derailleur.
Ok genius, can you please tell me which MTB RD works with 11-speed Shimano road shifters?