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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
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The 996-generation of Porsche 911 is enjoying something of a renaissance in popularity at present - and about time too! The good news is there are thousands of examples to choose from, but many at the lower end of values have very high mileage. So is this necessarily a bad thing? Does a high-mileage 996 represent a perilous ownership experience, or is it not likely to be as bad as you think?
I asked these very questions to Chris at Wrightune, the Oxfordshire-based Porsche specialists who I personally trust to work on my own 996, the odometer of which has just ticked over into six figures.
If your budget is pointing you in the direction of a 996 with high miles on the clock, this video will come in useful in helping you make up your mind - give it a watch before you decide to go ahead with a purchase!
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#porsche996 #996carrera #highmileage - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
996 cab from 1997 , 270.000km here, had a new (or rebuilt "austausch") engine after 80.000km (previous owner, when I bought it it had 180.000 km on it). I have the car for about ten years now, and it is my daily driver for the last 5 years. Sleeps outside. Only needed both radiators, a water pump, a few batteries and exhaust parts. All due to age/rotting away. Never did the IMS or the other mods. (I absolutely do not believe in preventive maintenance, I will repair when something breaks.) SO if you still hesitate, DONT, just BYE ONE!
My first C4S was at 193k and I took it to 7300rpm every opportunity I could once warm and up to temp. It was absolutely faultless and on a British b road was very very quick in all weathers.
Don’t pay daft amount for other folk to do the work on your own car, learn and do it yourself, satisfying and I tend to bond better with the car when I’ve actually done some work on them, makes them more special.
I just bought a 996 with 150,000, new IMS and RMS, new clutch, brakes, and pretty much every seal and chain in the engine replaced. Like this guy said, it's been sorted on the inside, but the paint is wearing and chipping, making it the deal of an absolute lifetime.
How has it been?
How are things with it? It’s been over a year since you’ve commented so I’d like to know?
@@benw2270 I got the car repainted, rebuilt the suspension, and did a few track mods. I now drive it most days even though it is not my daily driver. 168k miles now, and counting! (I even road tripped it from NY to NOLA and back)
Thx for the video. My 2000 is all original with 170K miles and still going strong
I am a lifelong 911 fan but have never owned one. Have been looking at 996’s for the last year and your videos have been very helpful! Just pulled the trigger on a Seal Grey 2001 C2 coupe. An independent PPI found a couple of important things (leaking valve covers, manual transmission needing a rebuild) that were unknown the previous owner who has otherwise apparently taken excellent care of the car. The PPI helped me negotiate the price and the proper repairs are being done now. 🤞looking forward to joining the 996 club. Cheers!
Excellent work, Nick! Sounds like you've got yourself a great 911 and have sourced it in the proper way. Glad my videos could help a little. Welcome to the club!
64,000 miles on my 996.2 and runs brilliantly. The key is to actually drive the car snd keep up with all services and maintenance.
Bang on!
While I have no experience with flat beetles, I have had a couple of old cheap cars (Saab, Mercedes, BMW...) and the high-mileage ones have given me the least trouble. When buying a car, I am actually preferring the high-mileage ones. The reasons are the following:
1) lower price and less depreciation. Taking a car from 50.000km to 100.000km will hurt it's market value badly. Taking a car from 300.000 to 350.000 on the other hand won't do anything to the price. Less capital employed, and less depreciation. These two combined can pay for a lot of repair bills.
2) a car that has been driven a lot tends to have received at least a minimum of maintenance. Usually, more than that, because whoever drives his car a lot likely wants it to be dependable and reliable.
3.) if mileage is *really* high, then there is a good chance that some of the more unpleasnt work has already been done (for example, most 400.000km cars have had their suspension/chassis parts changed at least once, a 200.00km car will not, and you will have to pay for that.)
4) short tripping and neglect can ruin a car's mechanical bits in a lot lower mileage than people usually think. With favourable operating conditions and decent maintenance on the other hand, things can last a lot longer thank most people think, too. If my life depended on it, and I had to choose between a 400.000km engine with a decent service history and a 100.000km engine with none, I'd always choose the first. I've had engines open with >400.000km which were - with the exception of very slightly worn rod bearings - within specifications of a new engine, and I've seen engines completely worn out and failing at less than a quarter of that.
5) ease of mind. If you have something extremely precious, impeccable and with a high monetary value, you tend to become a bit anxious about it. If your car is a liitle bit rougher, you have much less capital outlay, then you tend to be much more relaxed. You do not worry about any fun drive costing you hundreds in depreciation. If your front bumper is scratched you will park your car in front of a nice restaurant without worrying about other driver's parking abilities, if your paint has some stone chipping another chip won't really be noticeable, so you will enjoy a spirited high-speed drive so much more.
I see no reason why I should deviate from these principles if I were looking for a sports car in general or a 986/996 in particular. They're just cars, after all. Nice cars, but still, only cars.
Are you keeping your car as treasure, a store of wealth or an investment? Or are you going to actually USE it as a car? If the latter, then buying high-mileage makes so much more sense.
Hi Lee,
I really enjoy your vids - but the bit about "air cooled motors needing a rebuild at 100-120k miles" is simply wrong (and I am quite surprised to be the first to comment on this). First, you have to define which air cooled 911 variant you are talking about: the very early aluminum case motors (timing chain tensioner issues), the later magnesium cased variants, the 3.0l in the SC, the 3.2 from the Carrera, and the 964 and 993 3.6l's. Then you can try to define longevity, though with the very early aluminum and later mag case motors you have to define the displacement as well. The only motor out of all of those that I know needed a rebuild very early and very regularly - and 120k mi is early for a Porsche - is the US version of the 2.7L mag case motor built between 1974 and 77 IIRC. These motors had thermal reactors for emissions purposes located directly under the cyl heads and suffered all sorts of issues from worn valve guides or dropped valves to pulled head studs due to the excessive heat the reactors produced.
And all 911s prior to the 1984 Carrrera 3.2 needed careful attention paid to the timing chain tensioners as these collapsed and destroyed the motor.
But the 3.2L Carrera motor was regarded as more or less bullet-proof and examples with 300k miles or more are not unheard of. The reliability of the 964 and 993 3.6s decreased somewhat again - but is nowhere near 100-120k.
Where on earth did you come up with that figure? If you are really interested in learning more about the workings of a 911 air cooled motor, I can only suggest you pick up a copy of Bruce Anderson's "The 911 Performance Handbook". You won't need to read it cover-to-cover, but there is a wealth of info there. And you'll be able to make qualified statements and speak knowlegeably on 911s built long before you were born. I am slightly older than you, btw; I happen to be exactly as old as the 911 :-p
Cheers,
Steve
Well put Steve. I also winced a bit when he mentioned 100-125k miles, as this seems low for a properly maintained 3.2 liter. Bruce Anderson was the man, and I still kick myself for not going to one of his rebuild workshop sessions. Even though I have a professional look after my '87 Targa, I still would have loved to learn from the master. Cheers.
Love your content! I’ve “discovered” your channel a few days ago and now I’m glued to my phone watching the videos. I’ve been a fan of Porsche for many years now and I was looking for videos like yours. The information you present is very honest and it’s presented in a very clear and unbiased way. I love how you have things about the Porsches I will never be able to afford as well as those that maybe one day I’ll be able to get, like the 996 (not until I’m sure I can afford the bills).
Thank you and keep em coming! I’m gripped!
Love the comparison and pro/con discussion on low vs. high mileage 996. With a well sorted history and lift exam by a non-biased party, I think these will continue to provide a lot of driving excitement. Glad to see Little Irish is holding its own and congrats on the milestone!
The Porsche 996 a drivers car with superb Racing Le Mans design. Awesome car with so much character grit and beauty.
A brill vid
Spot on, have had mine since 2014, keep ahead of the maintenance and $1k a year is plenty
I can definitely recommend getting a pre purchase inspection. They'll always, always spot something you missed.
Agreed!
It's the thing you're paying for some thing that's going to put you off and at what point do you take a punt on a car the thing is who can afford the perfect example . You could pay for 5 inspections and that money could go to squaring up the first car
PPIs are only worth as much as the technician doing them and they most certainly DO NOT catch everything. I’ve had PPIs done on two different Porsches by two different techs and each time they missed something. But all in all, they are still recommended.
Danns Mcshane I think that’s definitely a point to consider, don’t get caught up on the PPI but it’s good to know what your car needs
The cost of a ppi is trivial compared to what you’re paying for the car. And obviously you take it to a mechanic you trust.
I love your videos just to see your car...but you also have a nice calm presentation. Mix that with good information and you're doing a good job. Thanks.
Cheers John, I appreciate that.
Great video! My old -99 C4 Tip had ~100k miles on it when I bought it. It had already had the motor implode and were already rebuilt, with all reinforced parts in place. I therefore thought it would be a safe proposition, more so as it was acquired from a Porsche Center and with a large portfolio of recites from over the years. And I mean LARGE! ~40000£’s worth of maintenance and rebuild expenses. So I quenched my thirst for the fried eggs 911 and pulled the trigger.
Unfortunately “everything else” happened to it. Drive shafts, window elevators, key malfunction, bushings and brakes. Luckily I got most of it done through the PCO warranty, but I must say I was happy when I saw it leave my driveway with the new owner. Had a 996.2GT3CS later on and that was a more bullet proof car. That is, up until I placed it in the armco at the Nordschleife Touristenfahrten... 996’s and me don’t click very well it seems😬
Oh no! Wincing at the 'Ring anecdote. Sounds like your first 996 was a bad egg (they are out there!), maybe third time lucky?!
GREAT video! Well done sir. Fantastic cars.
That’s a great list. I totally support the idea of getting a PPI done by someone who knows these cars!
Love the wheel! Going to see my 1st possible 996 to buy today!
Thanks for the great advice. I love the look of that Irish Green 996 with the amber indicators, Fuchs alloys and duck tail spoiler - that is my exact dream specification! Please drop me a line if you ever want to sell it!
Great video brother! Thanks for the well explained information!
My pleasure!
i bought mine with 77K miles, budgeted a full engine rebuild ...ceramic roller bearing IMS...although the dual row that came out was perfect, new water lines and brake lines, suspension rebuild/replacement and now runs like a dream. 12K for car, 8.5K for all the work...20.5K for a "new" 911....bargain.
Just bought one ☝️ 👌
996 Targa just under 60k owner, and a history with loads of other cars running up 30k a year, and the story is exactly the same. There are jobs that need doing due to age and not mileage, the rest is down to a good service history.
I took a chance on mine and had to spend a good lump of money, but since then it's done me proud. Daily drive and never let me down since.
Very helpful, picking up my 996 tomorrow 😊! First ever 911 ....my dream come true. It's a 1999 model so limiting to 3k miles/year. Has had a lot of preventative maintenance including the IMS bearing. Life for this old lady begins at 72😅....don't worry I can handle it ....have had 11 M cars in last 15 years😂 and will be doing another track day in my M4 in a few weeks.
Thats a great piece. Hoping to pick up a 996 cab as a toy in the next 15-18 months. I've just hit the subscribe button for u
Great video! This is the stuff we 996 owners want to know about.
Then it's my pleasure to deliver it.
Great video thx. I have a 996.1 c2 built in 1999 she has just turned 100k I have owned her for 4 years and done many of the things your mechanic identified new ac rads ac lines new disc all round. She has been very reliable and a real joy to own and drive. Next on the list is a suspension part rebuild. Key for me is regular oil changes and fix a issue straight away. My engine has never used a drop of oil I still have a can of oil I bought 4 years ago when I first got her in opened so the m96 is if looked after and got past the IMS risky low mileage fail point a great engine
Spot on with the regular oil changes!
My mx5 has 400k km on the clock and it still runs like one..love high mileage
Tops, Daniel!
I have a 996 for 4 years now at 230,000km put on about 50,000km. I daily drive all year long and with a tip is so practical and fun to ride a 911 all the time. I dont drive when it's raining usually or snow accumulation in Toronto. Here is my advice: 1) M96 engines are made to drive them hard but wait for it to warm up to operating temp 2) M96 engines dont like to sit around, keep driving it and it will always reward you 3) Stop worrying about IMS, inspections, bore scoring etc only when you buy from another owner do your homework 3) Flat 6 high compression ratio engines need above than average oil changes, I replace every 3000km and spoil the car. 4) These are bullet proof cars and considered extremely reliable 5) Use porsche certified OEM parts only, DIY on labour to save $$ when possible and lastly 6) Have fun!!! I have a cab, roof down flat 6 behind you over 160km/hr at 4000rpm is sweet spot and sounds like gold or more precisely like a jet on rails, best road car overall!!!
I bought my Black 996 Targa '02 with 113K miles and have just enjoyed everything about the Porsche. it drives like a dream, corners beautifully, has true 911 drive, and has no issues with the motor. The high miles actually make the car better, no oil leaks, no transmission issues, I updated the speakers and stereo to 2022 standards with ios and android compatibility, put in brand new tires, and zoom zoom we go..for anyone seeking the cheapest entry into the Porsche world, don't hesitate to purchase, I bought mine at Barrett Jackson and quite pleased with my 412$/month payment.
Good video, very useful for a first time buyer
I bought a 10,700 mile 996 turbo recently. It needed brakes, power steering pump, spark plugs, and other maintenance. Over $6500 dollars when finished. Add new tires and there is my low mileage Porsche 996 experience. Great video!
I like how the video is 911 in length, you cheeky bastard.
Hahahaha
My Boxster is just about to hit the 100K marker - I’ve done 25K of those and I’m planning on doing another 25K!
Good man!
Thanks mate I got a 9974s before Christmas it's got bore score and needs clutch and radiators and socks iam looking long term with hard work
I bought my '99, 996 C2 12 months ago and it has 160k on the clock. Had extensive history and a top end rebuild by Hartech at 128k. As Lee says alot of parts have been replaced but not the IMS.
No matter what the mileage is these cars are 20 years old and parts are due to failure. My car is going to get a suspension refresh over winter .
Been on some big trips this year in it including Fried Eggs a few weeks ago.
Good man, Stewart! Another great advert for the 996. You should absolutely budget for some wear, tear and failure of consumables over such a long life span (water pump, alternator, starter motor as I mentioned previously). With good maintenance, these cars can be cost effective.
@@9WERKSTV water pump and rads done by previous owner. Suspension gonna hurt but car was still a third of the price of my mates 997.
High kilometres is a sign a car has been well used and well cared for.
But only if it comes with a full service history, and all receipts!
I'm currently looking at a 300,000km 996 Turbo. Stack of receipts the size of a suitcase.
Little Irish is looking very nice on the KW’s!!
Thanks Duncan!
? Concise checklist written up? My 99 manual cab I am keeping. LN Engineering also offer “spin-on” oil filter that filters debris better, on my short list to do in 30 days
my first 996 was 400+ k km rebuilt the engine and fixed all the wear and tear, enjoyed it for 6 years, bought 3 996es since :)
Good man! Great advert for what the 996 is capable of.
Did you do the engine rebuild yourself? and if yes, are you a professional engineer?
@@Philly5G no i am not an engineer, a very keen mechanic, did all the machining work by local professionals :)
@@riddledriddler3933 WOW!! So you managed and did the bulk of the rebuild work yourself?!!
@@Philly5G yes, the assembly part is tricky, but if you take your time and have tools it is doable :)
Thanx
170k on my 03 996.2 6spd coupe. Daily driven. No real complaints, at this point the car is a part of me. I do spend about $1k a year on maintenance and repairs. Coils, starter, tires, etc
Lee, what would be "acceptable" oil consumption in the 100k miles car then?
If a car is looked after, fluids and filters changed on time and parts replaced as they break or show wear, milage isn't the be all and end all. I don't even worry about mileage anymore on cars I buy or own, as long as it's been looked after and it has obviously been cared for or has a service history thats good for me.
Cars are just like humans in this regards. Would you rather date a 40-year old athlete or a 25year old overweight couch potatoe? Maintenance and operating conditions are to a car what diet and exervise are to a human. In the end, it's the condition that counts, and age or mileage are just numbers.
cheeky run time on this video 9:11 :)
My 996 Turbo has just passed 90. Sweet as a nut.
People in the uk that are obsessed by mileage, in the the rest of the world they are obsessed by servicing on time.My personal opinion, is this paranoia possibly stems from owning a British leyland car.By the the way love the show.
Brilliant advice fellas … I’m currently looking for a nice 996 for around 18k 🤞🏻
High mileage just means more wear and tear. Suspension items wear out with use. Starter motor goes eventually. Etc etc. But as you say there are plenty of age related items too. Regarding oil leaks, I've always wondered if these are more likely in under-used cars?
I have high miler 964 and 997, and the bruddy studs that hold the undertrays on are slowly disappearing too!
Quite possibly, the cars do dry out with a lack of use which is where some problems start. I've had starter motor replaced, alternator replaced, and water pump, so this should be taken into consideration when buying a car around the 100k mark for sure.
Another BRILL video Lee!! My C4S is 85k miles and on the whole is as near to being as new, as near can be!! Just having the 2 radiators replaced due to corrosion, but I guess that’s to be expected at SOME point in a 996’s life :)
Appreciate that, Phil!
great Video Lee, mines on 147k and im working my way through the usuals. its had just about everything suspension related and im working towards renewing the brake lines and caliper upgrade. then its time to pretty it up by getting rid of the stone chips.
Good to hear you're keeping on top of maintenance. Do that and I'm certain the car will see you well.
What are you planning to do for the stone chips? My C4S has a few on the bonnet and roof and I would love to deal with them, but nervous about having a repaint done.......
@@Philly5G its a case of getting it repainted at a bodyshop. i had the bumper done last year and its made a difference. a good shop shouldn't get any issues
@@nickg2027 great to hear!! Which panels are you getting done this time and what kind of £? My car is Seal Grey btw
@@Philly5G it will be all of the front end, possibly onto the doors if needed. i was quoted £600-800 mine is seal grey also! Best colour!!
Good video, off topic, a bit, I am quite chuffed that my 2009 997.2 now has 101k on the clock:)!
Good work! And I bet that interior still holds together really nicely?
@@9WERKSTV yes, it still looks really fresh, looking inside you really wouldn't know that it had covered over 100k :).
I would definitely consider getting Litronics. You can buy them off eBay and they are plug and play. Makes night driving much better.
Will take a look!
Not really. The high beam in the Litronics is just a standard bulb and he won't get the self-leveling feature because his car is missing the sensors. A new bulb in the standard headlights will work very well. Litronics are not worth it.
Few things:
1) Looking to dip my toe into 996 ownership as an early christmas present - so great to have the info.
2) 9:11 seconds long? i see you
You know! Hope santa delivers you a 996-shaped surprise on xmas day.
Make sure you have a Porsche mechanic lined up before you buy the car.
My 997 had exactly the rusted brake line issue as explained in the video. Mud accumulated in the panel under the left side, corroded the line and it exploded during a track day.
Wow! Not the place for a brake line to explode!
Although maybe better than on a busy public road? Was it literally pedal to the floor and NOTHING?!!!! 😳
Phil Westerby-Jones thankfully not at all like in movies! I felt the pedal getting longer and longer (assumed i boiled the fluid) got back home and the next morning I pull the car out of the garage and the low brake fluid warning pops up. Sure enough, there was a puddle of fluid on the garage floor. Dealer quoted me a fortune to fit the lines and said they needed to drop the engine, an independent did it for a fraction of the cost without dropping it :)
Phil Westerby-Jones thankfully not at all like in movies! I felt the pedal getting longer and longer (assumed i boiled the fluid) got back home and the next morning I pull the car out of the garage and the low brake fluid warning pops up. Sure enough, there was a puddle of fluid on the garage floor. Dealer quoted me a fortune to fit the lines and said they needed to drop the engine, an independent did it for a fraction of the cost without dropping it :)
sephiros9883 WOW!!! Great news!! and brill you use an independent!! I use Strasse in Leeds who have been BRILLIANT!!
At 1:08 at high mileage the IMS is not going to fail? That is encouraging. I'm considering buying a 2001 from 400 miles away but with all the videos I'm scared to death that the IMS is going to get me?! At 7:30 if it's not consuming oil then maybe no bore scoring.
Is a modern Porsche designed to last 20 years or 8 years?
With all the technology 8
It's worth mentioning there will be no white metal left on the main bearings on an M96 engine with over 100k miles so factoring in an engine rebuild is worthwhile??
if the engine is otherwise in good working order, not using oil excessivlye and doesn't make suspicious noises, just replacing the main bearings could be enough to give peace of mind for many more miles.
My 03'C4S is closing in on 100K miles. No oil leaks, no IMS issues, no radiator leaks. Nothing but a great car. Any work needed, I have done myself. Could not be an easier car like this to work on. Even Buffalo, NY doesn't have the corrosion England does. Can't imagine owning anything else.
Great to hear! Hopefully you've many more trouble-free miles ahead.
Wow, living in Buffalo, home of the fantastic chicken wings and driving a 996, life doesn't get much better than that :)
@@Philly5G It's the best!
@@9WERKSTV Thanks! Lots of mies to go.
hoganapex11 I spent a lot of time in Buffalo 96-98, flying to Toronto and driving via Niagara Falls, great times 👍🏻🤘🏻
Someone has to buy the high mileage ones. We need to keep them going.
All makes sense. However as regards the IMS bearing. It is a bearing after all and bearings will wear out at some stage. Just when?
Agreed; the point I made though is most will have been replaced by this point, so the odds of you having to replace again are slim, unless of course you plan on owning for a very long time, by which time you'll be needing a general engine rebuild anyway.
I really want a 996
My 1998 Carrera has just clicked over 150k still going strong and travelling far and wide. Hoping it makes the next 150k before I'm too old to get in it.........
Really enjoyed all the Vids Lee - I'm originally from Poole - so been following you with interest - enjoyed the Bakers Arms stop off.....
Great to hear you're a local, Bill! Glad to hear your Carrera is doing my video some justice too! I hope it brings many more miles of happiness.
@@9WERKSTV Given that the 996 is approaching "Classic" status - maybe you should look at organising a roadtrip to the LeMans Classic race sometime in the future - seeing a few dozen 996's turn up would be fun....
153,000 km on my 1999 996, with IMS done at 117,000 KM. Not pristine, but I don't consider it high milage either
Ahhh the volume of that intro needs to come down!!
Always forget to do it, whoops!
Hey, the Porsche emblem of your wheel caps should point to the tyre valves... helps you find the valve 👍
They should do indeed, correct!
That Nine Eleven Guy And of course it shows the porsche nerd... 😂
wow !!!!!
100,000 miles on a lexus es 350 or a porsche 911 is nothing at all, so it depends on the car. Yes how it was taken care of is important but lets be honest, certain cars are simply built better than others. The ims issue was a real problem for porsche just as the rings (oil consumption) was a real problem for toyota (lexus). No car company is perfect. Then you have to break down what models and years are best.
Video length 😋
You know!
Hmm how about 200 kmiles for a 996.
100k, that’s cute. Try 169000.
Well in!
If you honestly compare Porsche's M96 engine to Honda's J series engine, you could never justify a porsche purchase. The M96 is such poor quality. You would be much better off with an Acura NSX, which is a superior chassis as well.