Trent Austin Mini-lesson #62: Why Bore size is Overrated in trumpet design!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- Inevitably the first question when I put up a trumpet video up on the shop page, here on YT, or FB is
"What's the Bore Size?"
Because it's a number that most people can digest that tends to point most people into a broad assumption on how an instrument might play. I hope you enjoy this mini-lesson (okay maybe a bit of a rant) into some of my thoughts with years of research, testing, development of numerous different trumpet models, and working with thousands of customers how I come to this conclusion.
0:43 Many people think that bore size is THE determining factor in how a horn will play. But you have horns like the open-feeling Adams A6 (actually a small bore trumpet at .438") or the Yamaha Bobby Shew model (a poly-bore design) that demonstrate that smaller/more efficient designs don't necessarily feel stuffy.
2:22 What's more important than bore size in determining the feel of how a horn plays? There IS a small area of the horn that has a huge effect on feel, and it's not the second valve slide (where bore size is traditionally measured).
2:55 A classic vintage example is the Blessing Super Artist trumpet played by Clifford Brown. That model has a large .468" bore, but it feels very tight.
4:11 The shape, taper, dimensions, and material of the bell can make a huge difference. Is the valve block a one piece or a two piece design? What alloys are used in the block? These factors have a larger effect than bore size on how the horn plays.
5:20 Bore size is one decision out of hundreds that go into designing a trumpet. Of course it's important, and of course it can affect how a horn plays. Why else would they make different bore sizes? But there's no reason to get hung up on that one element as being the only thing worth knowing about a trumpet.
6:09 Bore size is overrated by many people. There's so much that goes into creating a great trumpet design. For example: a couple years ago I was at the Adams factory to help on the A6 design, and we added a small counterweight and changed the material of the second valve slide. That small change dramatically helped the sound and intonation on the high Eb.
Thanks for watching, I hope you learned a little bit about trumpet design and why "what's the bore size" shouldn't be the first question to ask about a trumpet. Want to learn anything else about trumpet playing? Let me know in the comments and it might become a new mini-lesson here on the channel!
TLDW: Everything affects everything!
We have tons of great horns (in all sorts of bore sizes!) available at:
htttps://www.austincustombrass.biz
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do you have any requests for a mini-lesson for Trent? Let us know in the comments!
Thanks for sharing. I was wondering what the fuss about bore size was, and now I know. Keep up with the great work M8 🇭🇲
Thank you that info was awesome.
My instructor would hand me different trumpets to see which one I could hold a strong note the longest.
And that's the trumpet I was thought to play on.
I've heard that question before but had no idea what they were talking about. Now I know Thank You!
Nice one!
Sorry I asked on your earlier video. I didn’t ask because of ‘free blowing’ as I have no interest in ‘Free Blowing’. I currently play a 8310z and an I’m the market for a new horn with a different sound. Around 8 years ago, I played a horn that was, granted among other things a large bore, with. 1.5c equivalent. For some reason I lost all ability to play - nothing, but sounding rubbish in the stave, nothing higher, out of frustration I quit. After 5 years of not playing a now, I had another go at it. I blind tested everything I could get my hand on and ended with the 8310 with the Bobby Shew lead. I have no idea, my loss of being able to play may well have been psychological, but nothing I tried at the time helped. Thankfully now everything is back and is way better than it ever has been. To be honest I’m just a bit scared of a large bore - stupid I know, but I never want to in a position where I feel like giving up again as at the time I could see any other option. I appreciate you advice and my this horn was on my list. Thanks.
Thanks :) I have ml bore Bb horns and a polybore C. I have a '44 King Silvertone that may be medium bore. I'm not sure I play the polybore as eaily as the others, but they are all fun.
Thanks alot for the education, much appreciated!
Very cool!
Very informative and educational video. Thank you for sharing!
Asking what the bore size is a frame of reference question, which is why I clarified my question to say what bore size does it play like. As we grew up and progressed most players/teachers will quantify the feel of the horn with it plays tight/like a small bore or it blows very free/like a large bore. I appreciate the education but I think most people are trying to understand how you feel the horn plays and the free vs tight blow is an aspect that has merit as well as many variables that feed into that feeling.
But that is the problem you cannot judge by just that singular factor That's the point.
@@austincustom agreed, but how do we ask the question appropriately?
Simple. Ask about the general resistance profile of the instrument not just "what is the bore"
Doesn't the venturi gap or whatever it's called actually determine the openness or opposite of the horn? ( I haven't seen the whole video yet in case you cover it in the video)
EDIT: yup, you cover it.
Great informative video...thank you for sharing your thoughts on the bore size debate!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I had a Shew trumpet and loved it. I ALWAYS thought it was a large bore trumpet because of how free it was to play. Then when I got older and actually did my research I found it’s a quite small bore compared to others as you said. My instant thought was “I should really be playing a ML bore horn.” So I sold the shew (it had some damage anyway) and got a ML Yamaha 5335. A sub par horn to the Shew in many ways but I really miss my 8310. I might be reaching out to you for one Trent!
Excellent information! Thank you!
Thanks great information on bore size!
Very informative. Thanks, Trent.
Glad it was helpful!
Great lecture! Thx. 👏👍 I remember being taught around 1983 to buy my Bflat Bach Strad as ML, but their C trumpet as L and later a Schilke Bflat as X (whatever that means). And I did. Still don't know why. 🤷
Often C Trumpets are slightly larger in Bore than the Bb counterpart to help better balance the resistance profile of the higher pitched horns.
@@austincustom 🤝👍
Great explanation. Doesn't the 8310Z Gen 2 have a two piece valve block? Gen 1 was one piece.
Hello Trent, many thanks for your explanations. I have been very curious for some time: as a great expert testing many many trumpets, which is the easiest trumpet to play? considering only the ease to play and ruling out everything else, (regardless of sound) Many thanks
to be quite honest this is far too complex a question to answer via a comment as every player is truly unique.
Thanks for responding Trent. I have had an experience, I had an Schagerl cornet (the cheapest) and I wasn't comfortable playing her, I sold it and bought a second hand Sotomvi Forte Cornet. the change is perceptible, the Stomvi Forte is easier and more comfortable to play. Well built instruments are always easier to play than cheap ones, but I think there are good instruments designed to facilitate student learning. Then, after a few years, the musician begins to think about the sound and they pick up an instrument that is surely harder to play
5:55 is that a hole in the slide?
It sure looks like that but because the slide is nickel it reflects incredibly from the inside with any light I just checked it to be sure! No hole! 😎
Thanks for putting this only aspect to bed.
I think it’s very funny that people think large bores need more effort to play and sound automatically dark.
Actually it’s more easy to play high on a large bore just looking at how tones feel.
Thats the reason why high note players, for example maynard were playing an extra large bore.
An for example the Bach 25 is more common for lead trumpet than any other bach
Does bore reflect endurance or does how free it blows effect endurance?
👍