The Khoisan-Coloured Debate: Heritage Month 2022 | Podcast
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2022
- We pick up from last episode, as we revisit the topic of heritage, particularly as it pertains to "coloured" South Africans.
References:
www.news24.com/News24/prisons...
www.sahrc.org.za/index.php/sa...
mg.co.za/article/2018-08-31-0...
www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
www.sahistory.org.za/article/...
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I LOVE WHAT IS BEING STARTED HERE. I LOVE , LOVE THIS PLATFORM. I WISH OUR YOUNG COLOURED PEOPLE CAN WATCH SUCH VIDEOS. ITS IMPARATIVE!
I recently came across the insights show and thank you so much for creating a discussion around our identity as brown people. The coloured identity is so complex and layered. What I've encountered is that too many people try to simplfy the conversation about coloured identity to a singular topic.The discussion around this identity cannot led by anyone outside of the community, who doesn't understand coloured trauma attached to the identity. Speaking on coloured identity requires doing so with a degree of empathy and compassion for people who were completely disconnected from the diverse cultures of their multiracial ancestry that can be linked to many continents.Thank you for creating much needed dialogue it's been long overdue.
Ms Summer, you nailed it to near-perfection. Thank you for adding such great value to this all-important conversation.
The Khoi and San have thick peppercorn hair but not the Coloured. The Coloured has straightened hair coming from the admixture with the Afrikaan. The Coloured should be satisfied in the classification as Coloured-mixed race people, nothing more and nothing less. In Namibia. the Coloured is called the Bastard and different from the San. However, the San should be a very respected and protected group in South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Angola and Zambia.
Who u to command what coloureds should be satisfied whst they are called, surely they are entitled to call themselves whst they like
Thank you so much for sharing all this beautiful information about the mighty Khoi-San people. I have learned so much. God bless you. Keep up the good work. Aroha from Aotearoa.❤❤❤
Guys, appreciate all the great work you're doing, but let's dispel the dogma here. Khoi are black people with a different haplogroup split in the Y chromosome. The same is true for Africa as a whole, given the various gene expressions. I am a light-skinned person, and my blood is not mixed with European blood that victimized our BLACK people. This is similar to the Bambuti, a group of Pygmies in the Ituri Forest of eastern Congo - they are black people with a different haplogroup, just like all BLACKS in Africa.
Let's not forget that black women (Khoi) were victimized; it was not a consensual relationship. Similarly, Khoi men, who are black people, did not engage in relationships with white women. Khoi, once again, are black people with nappy hair. If a single drop of European blood from your father runs in your veins, you are not purely black. Otherwise, how do you account for your father's blood? Regardless of the gene expressions found in them, ALL BLACKS HAVE BLACK GENES. This could be from Khoi, and it's essential to remember that they never referred to themselves as Khoi.
I am Xhosa, and the blood of my ancestors runs in my veins. The clicks of the Khoi are present in my language. It's misguided to think that Bantus don't have a claim in the land of their ancestors. If even a single drop of European blood runs in you, you can't selectively claim only the history that you like at certain times and leave out other history this is fact of biology.
Well said
Ngiyabonga mina, kunini ngisho yoh!
@ thandosisilana425 but the click is not not unique to South Africa. We have tribes in East Africa with click. The problem I have with term Khoi and Bantu is they came with German anthologist who was racist. The term Bantu are new and it was to distinguish blacks and mix race. Mix race of South Africa they have similar history like the people of North Africa. The true people of South Africa or Southern Africa are blacks and we are just accommodating mix race. We know what happened to black women when the master arrive. No such thing as Khoi or bantu. That’s why even the Afrikaner are hiding their true identity by claiming the new term called Afrikaner because they are nothing but Flemish. The Flemish are one of the Germanic tribes. Hence today the Flemish language and Afrikaans is very similar than other than Dutch.
@@DumaM-ir7rk I am worried that although you are right about the word "Bantu" being enforced by the colonizers to group us, but in essence my language which is originally called isiNguni/isiNgoni, "Ntu" means that which has life or that which has purpose. Others have even gone as far as saying that it means, those that were given life from the Northern Rivers "eNtu." So I become reserved when we talk of the essence of Bantu. Mixed race is definitely what you explained and we can't debate that. However there are also lighter skinned Africans that are mainly found in the Belt of Eastern Africa to Southern Africa. They migrated all over Africa for different reasons and have a unique gene than other Africans. So those are the ones that we unfortunately group with mixed raced people whereas their gene is normally unique and pure. But thank you for reminding us about the horrors of Leonard Schultze the German who enforced narratives on us
@ RastaAfricanGentleman thanks for your insightful input as always and your modesty at all times. You are one guy that is sober all the time when you engage on anything. So from my understanding the German anthropologist when he met the Zulu say “ singabantu” some time Zulus will say “ hithi abantu” the term that mostly Zulu people we still used against other blacks especially when we are in a jovial mood. The term Simply means “ we are humans”.the term that put Zulus, Swati, Ndebele, Xhosa under one umbrella is “Nguni”. The same thing apply to other term who share the same ancestors in africa. So the reason why I don’t want to use the term Bantu for all Africans in Africa it’s because I know the sim is to ensure that all black people will be made foreigners in Africa. Afrikaner means Africans hence they don’t want me and you or any dark skin person with African hair to own the term African. If me, you and other Africans agree that we are not Africans but claim to be bantu one day they will say we are not Africans and they don’t know where we came from. Look at the East African history most people forgot leaders like Mengistu Haile Mariam of Etopia he didn’t look like the mix of Etopia and he was chased out of Etopia a with other blacks like him. Today everyone believe Etopians when they say Mengistu Haile Mariam was not originally from that part of the country. If we understand what the Abrahamic religion did to Africa and what it will do to Africans who don’t have hair of the mix and European. I cry every day cause just like many believed the Neanderthal were not humans they did the same with blacks to say we don’t have soul and meant for struggle because our bodies can take it. Today everyone look back and realise how they play part in the extinction of Neanderthal. No one takes blame but we know we are guilty. I am also fair in complexion with Chinese eyes and I disagree that blacks who are fair like me are different from dark blacks at all even the genetic theory . My complexion and body structure doesn’t mean I am different from other blacks. My kids they also have same features and all my fathers kids have. I am an African because of my hair , nose and lips and no one can miss them irrespective of what others say
I have never been fortunate to meet Khoisan (or non black or white) people from SA but I remember when I first came to the US and people thought I am a Khoisan from Kalihari? desert. At that time I had no idea what they were talking about. I am from West Africa which is far away from Southern Africa. Of course everyone knows about Mandela and apartheid but I also hear a lot about the colored. This confused me as I wondered why they are called colored. Why not just black and white. Overtime I came to realize that it is far more complicated than I thought. Fascinating people.
what is your race|ethnicity because you may be originating from west Africa but related to khoisan.This is a matter of historical route of migration and settlement.
To blacks everything is about black and white.We are not black.The term coloured derived from our genetic makeup.We are multi racial...
who told you Khoi-San are non black? Khoisan are ethnic group of black race like Zulu.
@@Pamoja1981 Oh really....define "Black"
@@grahamsolomons453 AFRICAN
Very insightful episode, learned a lot from this 🙌🙌🏾
The coloured issue is a major topic these days because of the coming election.The coming elections. What they should know is that some of so called coloureds are our brothers, sisters, uncles and aunts. We know how that happened. We used to stay with them but when Apartheid was strengthened they were moved to coloured areas. As for Khoisan people as people want to call them today. They were registered as other coloured, there was also cape Coloured, the third classification was just coloured. The Khoisan having been classified "other coloured" had to speak Afrikaans and not their language, hence there is really no fluent speakers of the khoi and San languages in RSA today. Namibia Botswana and Zambia have khoi and San communities who still know and speak teach in their language. If anyone who claims he/she is the one who has rights to speak on land. The small corner of Cape town is not the only place where the khoi people were resident because they are African. The thing that seems to be pushed is to separate Khoisan from being African. Anyone who wants to know Khoisan involvement amang bantu people. maNgqosini, maQgunukhwebe, amaCete and many other Xhosa groups to understand their Khoisan connection.
Koisan many had coloured children so are they not partly Koisan. Koisan were very fair skin
But most colored people have no affiliation with Khoisan people and the majority of the Khoisan groups for thousands of years had already intermarried into the Bantu community Zulu/Xhosa (Nguni) and they were in small pockets the Bantu identity is already diverse. And where actually will the Khoisan claim. They are free to claim the western cape from the d.a.I feel that each colored has a distinct identity that is different from each others and their plight will not work out it was just a buffer created by white people to reduce the black community and has the Khoi identity being researched. You can't just claim by saying, Khoi Bantu. Now the lady says she has Khoi ancestry from Botswana which already eliminates her from South Africa and she must go to the Botswana constitutional court what about those traced to Namibia Remember we are dealing with reality then tribes language evidence. Kzn is Zulu eastern cape xhosa northwest Tswana free state Sotho. Frustrating oneself on things that don't add up will only confuse you more separating Khoi from Bantu. Since Bantu dominate in Africa we can say Africa and claim the entire continent. Stuff has to make sense and most colourds do not have Khoi ancestry majority of the natives in South Africa are Bantu people the Khoi were in small pockets and nomads and did not really claim any land so even the psychology and topic itself will cause a lot of disillusionment. Just like the Bantu have different tribes so do the Khoi now balling it up in one does not make sense someone from the northern cape cannot go and claim in the eastern cape
@@tombimashri8149neither the khoi people nor the San people are fair skinned by majority. What happens is Coloureds or other mixed race peoples are always pushed in front of a camera to represent the Khoi or San people. The khoi and San people are mid to dark brown. Fair skin would be Chris Brown. The majority of the Khoi and San people are not Chris Brown's color. There is always an attempt to lighten them up and white wash them as if they are not Black Africans.
I have traced my ancestry. My maternal great grandfather came from St Helena island with the diamond rush.He married a griqua lady and settled in a place called Gong Gong.He was a diamond digger and a goat and sheep farmer and was assimilated into the griqua community.. I believe that I a of griqua descent..
The griqua are a clan of the KHOI tribe . The KHOI and SAN being the true and only original , first inhabitants of SA . They are thus called the FIRST NATION , the true heirs and custodians of this land .
@@Scar_762that "first nations" crap applies somewhere in the Americas, Australia and New Zealand...it would apply if South Africa was still ruled by white Europeans who came on boats...no native African came on boats to Southern Africa and are thus indigenous to this land just like the San and Khoekhoe people...Go spew your bile where the sun doesn't shine
As Zulu South African I love this platform much luv to Malay Coloured ppl we are the true afrikans of this land !🤎
Go back to central Africa and try your Mfecane there.
Khoi and San are 100% black and 100% African, Xhosa Tswana Sotho has more Khoi and San DNA than anyone else, it's in the music, it's in our language, in the way we worship, what we eat and how we prepare food, our medicines
99% of Khoi and San have evolved to become coloureds . They are regarded as brown people or in Afrikaans " briun menses " .
They are historically different to the Bantu black tribes , ethnically , religiously, linguistically, culturally and they alone are indigenous to SA . They are now part of the coloured nation .
@@Scar_762 I call bullshit. You should stop learning from History for dummies textbooks, you can do better. 99% of KhoiSan are in NC, Botswana and Namibia, you should check out the KhoiSan people of Namibia and see how closely they resemble the Bantu people. Most KhoiSan groups integrated to the Bantu communities during the white man invasion it's in history. And before that, they lived side by side with bantu for centuries, bantus have been melting gold and iron for centuries in this region there's archeological evidence, bantus built the adams calendar and the adams pyramids 200K years ago in this region stop gatekeeping KhoiSan, we all share thier dna and we all been here since time immemorial. Ofcourse if you go back a million years yes only KhoiSan were here but WIts and UP universities can trace Bantus in this region since 2000yrs ago
@@Scar_762evolved to Coloureds lmao? First, the actual khoi and San tribes are still Black people. Second for a Black person to become mixed would be devolving. You European ancestors are mixed with Neanderthals and the khoi and San people are some of the actual Black Africans who are pure modern human. Also why do you always bring the "Bantu" into this?
Scar is a lost soul😅 to think coloureds are Khoekhoe and San people😂😂@@alisterdirector1475
@@mafumanelephoto4730 he is one of the many Coloureds who spread stupidity on the internet trying to hijack 2 Black Indigenous tribes for a land grab. I don't see why South Africa just does not redefine the racial categories to do away with the nonsense
Interesting experience enlightenment of one's own culture.
Good conversation guys and you also inspired me to doo something similar.
I need to get that book. The Coloureds that migrated from south africa into Namibia was classified as Basters by the germans
There's no nation on planet earth called so many different names on planet earth like the Coloured people
@josephbertolini1400 Correct!
Good work ❤❤❤
I like that you mention Trevor Noah. He is a white and black mix. But the coloured in SA with straighter longer hair cannot claim descent from Khoisan directly. The answer if one wants to know we thank God is in DNA tests. You will find the percentage will tell origin. Looking at Mandela alone, he is more khoisan than many many many coloured people. The Xhosa race is more closely related to khoisan. Lets be honest.
Coloured people in South Africa barely fought for the struggle. They enjoyed jobs superior to black. However, after 94, they are black. Now wwith the land issue, they are Khoisan.
All Africans from Cape to Cairo have kept cultures in areas like marriage, funerals, manhood initiations and many other cultural distinctions. More importantly, language. Im just curious; what is the Coloured culture? Why have they lost the language if they were a people before anybody?
Thank you for that, you are what your seed's father is, i am light skin i am more khoi than people with mix hair claiming to be black people, lets not forget khoi are black people since Africa has a lot of different gene expressions within the continent. Bambuti, a group of Pygmies of the Ituri Forest of eastern Congo those are black people with a different haplogroup as is the case with all BLACKS in Africa. Lest not forget black women (khoi) were rapped this was not a relatioship or Khoi men that are black people went to date white women. Khoi again are black people with nappy hair. If a single drop of your father's whose European runs in your blood please you not black
i fully concur with both of you family. This narrative that khoisan are colored after being given that far from the truth identity by the whites, coloreds are running with this false narrative that coloreds are the original people of the land by association with the Khoisan people. Mind you some have no connection to the koisan people they are malaysian and whatever else. Its absurd and ludicrous . in as much as the colored people say this american rulenof one drop of black makes you black doesnt apply to them, a drop of khoisan or bantu doesn't make you african either. They still have European ancestory and indian or malay ancestry too
@thandosisilana425 you are what both your parents are. The disrespect shown to your mother in this.
@@jobe1888 True but that means that they cant reject the term Coloured and only claim so called KhoiSan or first nation, thats denying your full lineage, its not merely an issue of semantics or names/labels. So called Coloured is like creole, mixture of African and none Africans whether Indians, Malays or Europeans. There is no separate race called 'KhoiSan' all are black Africans, who lived and intermarried with other Africans for thousands of years before the Europeans arrived. Africans have been continuously migrating all over the continent for 300,000 years! These borders didn't exist.
All this identity politics is the result of divide and conquer by the Europeans. Even the terms we use like black, coloured, Bantu, KhoiSan etc. there was never any tribe in Africa with those names! It's either you are an indegenous native African or you aren't, simple. Why complicate things. And those who are know themselves.
Being mixed has never been the issue, no one is pure anything, its more idological and political! Being anti-black and having a white and Asian supremacist culture whilst living in an AFRICAN country is at the heart of the coloured identity crisis.
I don't get the title of the book.
Ouens, julle moet net a anestrydna test doen. I did a ancestrydna test and its the best knowledge a Coloured like me learned of my past.
Tyla, the beautiful young sister from South Africa looks to me that she may have indigenous Khoisan bloodline. Im African American and my DNA shows that I have 1% Khoisan heritage/bloodline
The North Africa history is similar to what happened is happening in South Africa.
what Jesse is saying (36:54) regarding the quota system is that if you base the selection on merit then you are only giving white people the opportunity on the basis that they had the advantage of having resources whilst other races were excluded from access to certain resources - the quota system remains unperfect but also good for equating the ground for the future of SA. An example of how unfair it is to hire based on merit without considering the past is that white people at some point had access to high level of education as compared to other races and for that reason they are more likely to be better based on merit and hence the meritocracy system is less likely to be a progressive one in South African context. But also might serve to be important in certain positions
The whole of Africa where colonialism took place, the so called coloureds exist but they do not define themselves as such like in RSA and Zimbabwe. Because of prolong divide and rule becomes more prevalent in RSA and Zimbabwe, now we have so called KHOISAN. There's no land of the "KHOISAN" but indigenous Africans. There were intermarriages amongst Africans, if somebody claims to have arrive first in RSA. The question is where were you coming from? The answer would be Africa. Every group claims to be marginalised, I hear Tshwana, Sotho, Pedi including whites claiming BEE is excluding them.
SA is the land of the KHOI and SAN . They are the only true indigenous people of this land .
All the black Bantu Nguni tribes are foreign migrant settlers here from central Africa . Stop the false black propaganda lies , your indigenous homeland is north of the Limpopo river all the way up into central Africa .
@@Scar_762 KHOSAN is the word coined by Simon van Derstel meaning Kaap,Holland Oriented Indegenous South African Natitives an argument for another day. There were Nama, Bakhothu, Barwa, Thwa in Rwanda and Burundi. According to research The so called KHOISAN arrived in the southern tip of Africa 2000BCE when already there were other African people who were melting iron around 40000BCE towards Swaziland and the first city that existed in 250000BCE by the Bakoni. Now dividing Africans along the lines who came first in some parts of Africa that's European concept who continue amassing the wealth of this country. Africans must concentrate in recovering their resources from colonialists.
@@Scar_762, why are you so negative to Full Melanin African descendants people (Nguni Clans or tribes) In all Africa land, Full Melanin African descendants are native to that land. Even in Australia are the native people, while European your fort father are foreign and you just twist the history. Who should claim the Land between Nguni people who are manly mix with Khoisan. Colored, who are admixture of European, Asians and Africans. I guess is Nguni would claim the land. Again Khoisan and Nguni are both Full Melanin African descendants and both are native in Africa. Colored never and will never be Full Melanin African descendants due to their admixture ancestors from outside of Africa. Coloreds and Nguni should work and stay together (not against and fight to each others as you sound).
43:14
hie' begin julle oor'ie "root causes" praat 👌
Black people in South Africa are more Khoi than most coloureds that's why they are generally light skinned than Bantu say from Kenya. Colored are Khoi when it suit them, and when they have difference with the Xhosa who have deep Khoi influence they say Xhosas are "foreigners".
MAJORITY OF BLACKS ARE FOREIGNERS, INVADERS/SETTLERS FROM CENTRAL AFRICA, NOT INDIGENOUS 1ST NATIONS, HISTORICAL AND SCIENTIFIC FACT, PERIOD!🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Yes , not all coloureds are descendants of the KHOI and SAN.
There are many Nguni mixed with Khoi and San , that's true , but I wonder how much came from the time when the black tribes forcefully took land and pillaged and RAPED the brown peoples women ???
They came with ships and came as slaves , mixed with the settlers but when it suits them they are khoisan and khoisan are colored according to them. Not black but yellow😂. Mind you we look more khoisan than they do, share more similarities in food and language , skin tone and shape cause we are one . very confusing bunch of people who choose whichever narrative that they want. We don't care we care about facts and facts are they are products of inteemixing with foreign races that came down here. We are african and black , bantu khoisan and all. We wont have our history altered by settlers to confuse us to rule and divide the people
And its so easy foe them to believe the settlers historical lies because those r their ancestors. But its an insult to our people to say khoisan are colored or yelllow not black
All the black Bantu tribes are foreign migrant invaders from central Africa.
They destroyed whole clans of the indigenous original native population of KHOI and SAN . They killed the men, raped the women and forcefully adopted the children into their tribes. This is today evidenced by their prevalent DNA of Khoi and San among Bantu Nguni tribes.
I'm sharing the truth with you, not the narrative of whites , both Khoi , San and black oral tradition tells of those times.
I'm sorry but the race categories you usually fill in on forms (2:38) aims at exactly levelling the ground that was previously unlevelled by the previous regime - so it actually aids the striving of inclusivity and South Africa for all because inclusivity has to start where there is a level ground going forward
You cant make up for the past like that. You have coloured people who are the majority in the western cape who cant vet work because of their race. We cant ever make up for apartheid. We have to employ the best bevause look at how fucked up we have become because if this thinking.
Whether you like it or don't like it, if you have indigenous genes that's what you are and hopefully you are proud of who you are, whether you like to be called coloured or not.
Having partial Indigenous genes makes you only partial Indigenous. Especially, if the other half of those genes are white supremacist and European colonizers and settlers. South Africa is just one of the many places where the actual Black population still exist and is still Black but a group of half bred people are claiming to be Indigenous. Same with North Africa. Black Africans will learn one day to stop being so accepting of others, it could very well lead to their annihilation and replacement....look at what happened to mojorty of the actual Khoi and San people of South Africa.
Your to fast over the titles of the books.
The Khoi and San are the original , first and earliest people to inhabit SA . The khoi clans of Griqua , Nama , Korana and Cape Khoi were all classified as coloured by the apartheid regime . Many are finally waking up and reclaiming their rightful identity and heritage as First Nation people . Sadly the black nguni people feel threatened.
I wonder why ???
They are not threatened, Coloureds are just trying to hijack two Black Indigenous groups the Khoi and the San. Why are some Coloureds lying and saying they are the Khoi and San, when they do not identify as Black???? Could this all be a scam for land? Why are Coloureds not saying they are Dutch or English/British? Why are Coloureds not laying claim to British or Dutch lands?
@Yardz-ej1lu, Really!!! Since when the Full Melanin African descendants (Koi&San) became admixture or Mix race so call call Colored, When Coloreds become Full Melanin African descendants so call Black!!? Between Nguni person and a colored person which one have more Khoisan features (Hair types , skin color). Between those person, which has dialect or language close to Khoisan. I guess you is Nguni person(example :Xhosa dialect), while colored speak Afrikaans, which is Dutch descendants language. Tell me how many well-known people are colored look more Khoisan!?. But there many from Xhosa, Zuluand tswana... Look more Khoi & San such as Mandela Nelson, Steve Biko, Somizi.... Those colored who looked more Khoi & San are poor and while many rich colored do not look as they have Khoi & San ancestors in them. During apartheid many Indians fought more than Colored against evil wrong doing were made by European descendants people. Many Colored are kind and good people than Nguni people toward no South Africa Full Melanin African descendants(as myself), but many Colored choose to be with European descendants to against any things relate to the Full Melanin South African f descendants. Those three names you say are the the regions or areas name not the Clans of Khoisan name . They were gave by Salve masters not Khoisan decided those names
@@americanboy7037 you didn't read my post properly..... The KHOI subgroups or clans are the Griqua , Korana , Nama and Cape Khoi . Under the apartheid government they were all reclassified as coloured . Their rightful identity is indigenous first nation people .
The black Bantu on the other hand do have some Khoi or San mix , but that is irrelevant , they all identify as Nguni by the tribes . Also the black Bantu Nguni people are all foreign migrant settlers from central Africa . SA is not their indigenous homeland . Although the vast majority of coloureds supported the struggle , today we are sidelined and relegated to "second class" black status .
This is nonsense and must end , the Khoi and San descendants are the true legitimate heirs and custodians of this land .
@@Scar_762 yes, Khoisan are indigenous to Mzanzi(South African) than other tribes or ethnics. I'm from Rwanda and we have Twa (pygmies), which are very close to Khoisan. Twa are indigenous than other tribes. I'm admixture of Nilothic, Cushitic and Bantu. I wish I have Twa in me and unfortunately I do not have, but I'm very proud of my Twa cousins(as Full Melanin African descendants) and I can not claim what belong to them. Which most Colored do claim what do not belong them. They are still Full Khoisan and their are Full Melanin African descendants (so call Black) and Colored try to claim Khoisan identity. The only problem most Colered and European descendants try to do is to classified Khoisan as not Full Malanin Africa descendants and take away from other s Full Melanin African descendants ethnics.
@@americanboy7037The Khoi and the San are Black just as you know them to be. These white Coloureds love to pretend they are the Khoi and San people for land.
Guys I understand your fight for the mixed race identity rights but I think you should do more research before mis informing the youth. Most of the statements made in this program are statements that you would hear at a tavern. In terms of literature get a balanced view, not books written by white authors only. It would also help to go and speak to the Khoison people who you claim to belong to. I know their story is more authentic than what white authors write, I dont have anything against white authors but Most of what we learn in our African history is very distorted and inaccurate. For example Im Nguni and there is no such a thing as BANTU people. It was just a name white authors made up...its like khoi khoi or San...which you claim to belong to. AmaSili or Abathwa are still alive and still living in Southern Africa, take your time to go and interview them and hear their story which I guarantee is more accurate than the books you brought to the studio today.
@mbongenidube 7282.The presenters read from books written by Dr. Rueben Richards- The Lie of 1652, Dr. Gull -Bastards or Humans, and both of them are so called Coloureds, not Afrikaners! Have a good day.
First thing there is no such thing as a khoisan. That term was invented by Leonard Schultze in 1928. Just like people was classified by law as Coloureds in 1950. And yet those people classified as Khoisan or as Coloureds existed way before 1928 and 1950.in fact they were already here when jan van riebeeck arrived in south Africa, where they already wear clothes, speak various languages and lived in stone houses. So why don't they speak about that. Reason why most of us in this situation identity crisis because most of us were stripped from their identity, culture and names by the churches, where the rest fight these colonialists and missionaries. In result they actually preserved their true identity, culture, languages, oral history and customs until present times. Why don't people talk about that. Dr Ruben and Patric mallet is the worse individuals as examples to tell our stories, who and what we are. They have no idea, their research remains baseless without the involvement of the survival families who survived colonialism, apartheid and democracy. Including their descendants known as clans, who firms tribes and those tribes formed one nation. Which still exist today.
Im Zulu descent i was discussing this with my other coloured friend that we having a problem which is unfair to the coloured people. The is huge issues of tribalism in this country in such even i as Zulu i feel discriminated against at work on the bases that im Zulu especially from people Limpopo province its horrible because we all suffered under apartheid
Did people from Limpopo not get excited when Malema started getting attention. Remember they were the most underdeveloped and less educated and in Joburg and the rest of South Africa people used to look down on them because of their lack of exposure so now they wanna be seen and assume things are only happening now. Joburg is A Zulu-dominated city and most started feeling felt when the was a media attack funded by the Stellenbosch mafia. And remember limpopo only started developing during Zuma's term with money from national coffers the is not a lot going on there and also tender corruption started seeing a lot of millionaires pop out of Limpopo due to corruption. When people put people from Limpopo in a place they feel discriminated I just think it's a late bloomer syndrome also most are not that informed and exposed to the rest of South Africa due to the segregation Act and only got exposed very late. But also the corrupt relationship between Julius and Malema turned sour when Malema got cocky and disrespected and elders and Zuma were cautioned not to expose him to too much information when he got expelled from the ANC a lot of people from Limpopo felt their hero was treated unfairly. The is no link between people from Limpopo and Zulu people. The areas where Zulu is based are more developed and there are more educational facilities and development even with the matric results in tertiary graduation Zulu people are always leading and between them, the Xhosa are the first groups to get educated. I just assume with a lot of interaction from people from Limpopo a lot are not exposed to the South African diaspora and due to the policy of the ance of creating artificial economies and millionaires during the time of Zuma a lot of South African billions were distributed to Limpopo and looted and the same people enabled by Zuma started thinking they are better. The whole BEE policy of the ANC needs to be scrapped. Corruption and greed never work. The entire ideology of natives getting back to South Africa was to escape apartheid but the artificial creation of creation of fake millionaires created a false entitlement and disillusionment. I do engage with a lot of people from Limpopo I think due to the late development and people used to mock them for being poor illiterate and back with the opportunity and free movement in South Africa they fought to be seen and obviously some when they felt they have achieved who is the most noticeable group it's the Zulu. Their plight is a bit backward since they are other issues and their ignorance is starting to be seen by native Africans as black hate and has already created a negative ideology of their mentality which leads to people not taking them seriously. Remember the more ignorant you appear the more people do not take you seriously.I also think with the Zulu being the majority native group people assume every black person is Zulu even amongst native Africans the person can be Xhosa swati ndebele tswana sotho Shangaan venda and Zulu is the most commonly spoken language in Pretoria the taxi drivers are Ndebele and pedi people assume they are Zulu or in Joburg zulu is the street language of communication. The is a general level of ignorance is South Africa and most foreigners pick up Zulu as their first language fro to also since a lot of groupings used to be Zulu and broke off from them Zulu a lot of people on the street and in the social scene pretend to be Zulu and as soon as they got what they want chuck being Zulu out the door. Zulu is the most communicable language in the southern hemisphere so because of the lack of information the seems to be a lot of competition some people have not even heard Zulu so back then I heard another Tsonga/Shangaan person say linguistically he could not hear Zulu but assumed everybody I Joburg are Zulu and he had to also learn Tswana after learning Zulu. But as to say again the Limpopo thing is based on ignorance the are serious issues happening in South Africa and also being placed there in the corner of south africa and most are not integrated and remember the is also tribalism among Limpopians with pedi's thinking their better than shangaans and vendas and treating them like foreigners and a lot of pedi of Shangaan/Tsonga and venda and Shona etc would tend to denounce their origin a lot of pedi have origins amongst the Tsonga and Shona/venda and i assume intermixed with the Tswana groupings but denounced it. The is a lot of self-hate and self-hate that was created to a lack of exposure in that province and when migrating to mainstream Gauteng for work they came with it. A lot of black South Africans whether Bantu colored or indian need to be mentally cleansed and corrected and the self-hate fixed and taken out of other groups which don't have a link. Limpopo and Kwazulu Natal do not touch each other so I assume they watch TV and create a defense mechanism when they come to Joburg
From Tanzania to the Cape of South Africa our bush Nomads live strong but lack pride and dignity because the Colonizers and the Ntu failed them. Somehow we were taught to fight to be each other's enemies for some reason but we are all African children of Alkebulan. So I wonder when we have a completely new race of a mixed generation who collectively share the pain of our forgotten bush Nomads, why aren't they taking advantage of their preferential treatments currently existing in our economic/employment/business sectors? I worked for a company that had Coloured female positions open mostly on every run. We find our Durban naturalised Indian South Africans taking advantage of this very well in all sectors. So I wonder if our Coloured people know these benefits or its different in the Western Cape than the rest of the country?
In South Africa Coloureds were designated arears to live, Black, White nd Coloured it was a complete different set up
@@tombimashri8149 please explain more I am lost
THE COMPLETE HISTORY OF COLOUREDS;
They are a 350+ year old creole ethnic group. Not biracial. .Not mixed ,but HAVE MUTLI-RACIAL ADMIXTURE/HERITAGE as a result of creolisation during the 1600s iduring slavery in the cape colony.. They all descend from the same diverse slave/native/colionist ancestors in varying proportions..THEY DONT COME FROM BIRACIAL PEOPLE WHO MIXED WITH BIRACIAL PEOPLE EITHER. SO MIXED RACE CHILDREN ARE NOT COLOURED. Coloureds are a 3 centuries old ethnio-culture with a specific heriatge/history/ancestry/cuulture. .
The wroking class of the cape colony was Mostly african. KHWE/XAM/AMAXHOSA/MADAGSCAN/WEST & EAST AFRICAN/SOUTH ASIANS... NATIVES AND SLAVES WITHIN THIS COLONY WERE ENSLAVED/DETRIBALISED( stripped of their pre-colonial identity) / CREOLISED ( the generational ethnic/cultural blending/fusion of differnt populations into a single diverse population)/ACCULTURATED ( adopted the eurocentric culture of colonists/slave masters).THE ONLY COLOUREDS OF MOSTLY ASIAN DESCENT ARE CAPE MALAYS, who make up less than 10% of all coloureds. the 90% of coloureds are on the mosty african genetic spectrum. Their ancestry is 2/3 african. Africans (natives/slaves) made up 70% OF THE CAPE COLONY. THE AVERAGE COLOURED IS 68% AFRICAN GENETICALLY. THEIR MATERNAL DNA IS 78% AFRICAN ( KHOI/XHOSA WOMEN) AND THEIRN PATERNAL DNA (Y-CHROMOSOME) IS 48% AFRICAN ( KHOISAN/BANTU/MADAGSCAN/WEST &EAST AFRICAN MEN) ALMOST ALL COLOUREDS ARE BLACK, COZ ALMOST ALL COLOUREDS ARE MOSTLY AFRICAN
Nothing you have said stops them from being considered mixed race. You have only negated the biracial misnomer, but that begs the question of are Biracial given their own category in South Africa or are they classified under Coloureds as well? I have often wonder this as I see some Coloureds attempt to exclude Biracials from the clclassification.
@@alisterdirector1475 THEY ARE NOT CLASSIFIED AS COLOURED. TO BE COLOURED IS TO PART OF A CREOLE ETHNO-CULTURE, WHAT EXACTLY MAKES THEM COLOURED?
@darrenmanuel509 I was asking the question of are biracials classified as Coloureds as well. I do not have the answer. You said that the answer is no. Looking up the definition for the Coloured classification, it does not necessarily specify anything about cultural, just that a Coloured is mixed race of White, Black, or Asian heritage. I do understand the concept of fitting into a classification but not necessarily being apart of the ethnicity. For instance, an African that gains citizenship in the United States would technically be an African American by classification, but would not be an African American ethnically.
It's crucial to delve into the nuanced history of the "Coloured" classification, particularly in the context of South Africa, to understand why it's not simply a matter of being biracial. Your acquaintance's assertion that Coloureds are merely a mix of White, Black, or Asian heritage oversimplifies a complex identity deeply rooted in history and cultural heritage.
Firstly, let's address the notion that Coloureds are just "random biracials." The term "Coloured" in South Africa historically refers to individuals of mixed ancestry, predominantly of African and European descent, with some Asian heritage as well. However, it's essential to recognize that the Coloured community isn't a haphazard amalgamation of disparate racial backgrounds. Instead, it has a distinct historical lineage, primarily tracing back to the creole communities of South Africa.
The creolization of the Coloured population in South Africa occurred over centuries primarily among native Africans, African slaves, and Asian slaves, with sporadic instances of European mixing. Predominantly descended from African slaves, the Coloured community's genetic makeup reflects its predominantly African heritage, with European and Asian elements representing additions accrued over time. This Eurocentric influence doesn't stem primarily from direct relationships with European colonists but rather from intermarriage and sexual unions between various racial groups. Moreover, the process of creolization involved not only genetic mixing but also the adoption of Western cultural practices, languages, and social norms, largely through detribalization under colonial rule. While some individuals may have higher proportions of European or Asian DNA, many have predominantly African genetic heritage, challenging simplistic narratives of racial identity and highlighting the diverse and multifaceted nature of Coloured identity in South Africa.
Drawing a parallel to the example of an African gaining citizenship in the United States and being classified as African American, while not ethnically African American, is somewhat apt but doesn't capture the full complexity of the Coloured identity. Unlike the African American classification, which primarily denotes a shared experience of being descendants of enslaved Africans in the United States, the Coloured identity in South Africa encompasses a broader spectrum of cultural and historical narratives.
In essence, the Coloured identity is deeply intertwined with the creole history of South Africa, characterized by complex interactions between different racial and cultural groups over centuries. Recognizing the richness and depth of this heritage is essential in understanding the complexities of racial identity in South Africa and moving beyond simplistic categorizations based solely on ancestry.
Go back to the story of Ian Khama the first mix race king and president of Botswana. Ian father was the first black man to marry a white women in the African continent. The marriage between Ruth and Seretse Khama didn’t have blessing from the Batswana people. So as I ask and research why the people of Botswana had problem with the marriage. Then I found out some knew about the disaster that will come and kill the culture and other things among the Batswana. Hence most people today think Batswana are like the white people without culture too. Because in Botswana during the reign of Seretse and his son practice like initiation school and traditional marriage were stopped. People were forcefully removed from living a simple life because Seretse and his sons didn’t agree Batswana to practice their cultural rites and many aspects that defined them as blacks in this African zoo. This damaged continued to haunt all the black Batswana all over the world to hate their own culture and beliefs. Just like many wouldn’t recognise that South Africa was Botswana but back then it was British Bechuana land so some back Batswana who continued to marry with whites started to refuse contact with their black brothers and sisters hence some of our kids would think they are Germans or British . The marriage of Seretse has done damages that can’t be fixed easy. You will see other Batswana in Zambia, Zimbabwe , Mozambique , Namibia and Tanzania but they still don’t know each other just like many of their coloured children
Tone down the accent!!
South Africa was never the land for the so call Khoi. The so call Khoi never existed. Most coloured just refused to be called blacks . Whites never classify mix race as whites but blacks for many years
Real khoi and san people still exist 😅😅..and they look nothing like ya'll
But the knowledge or civilisation you are talking about was done by all blacks. So watch in other parts of Africa you will see people hunt.
Brown people? The Khoi and the San are African people, they are NOT brown people. Brown is neither a culture nor a nation. Why would you label yourself in such fashion? I am proud of the First Nation and would never refer to them as brown.