Great video as always. Love how well you structure things! One thing that makes a difference to me when I ride with a V is how the bar spins back automatically after a loop or rotation - because of the gap between the front lines of the V. I typically ride with a Y and sometimes don't know which direction to spin my bar back. Also I feel that on a Y the lines suffer more from riding with twisted lines because the friction is always on the same place. The V seems to distribute that friction.
Interesting! I’ve heard that certain bars don’t untwist well due to weight (they actually spin past the correct point) but never heard about the difference with the Y split. It makes sense to me and I’ll try to pay some more attention to it next time.
Great video. In the duotones case, I tried the Evo with the original trust bar without the high Y split, and it was terrible. I hope every brand can make a similar video explaining this important topic. Thanks, Steven.
Thanks for sharing that experience, you’re not the first who I heard that from. I do think it’s an interesting topic that not enough brands are communicating about.
I've been waiting for years for this explanation! I've always had a sensation that the high Y is my favorite, as I like kitewave and downloops when downwinding in Brazil, but I couldn't explain why. Thanks for the the video 🙏
Thanks a lot Steven! Appreciate your efforts! I ride XRs for about 5 years on a V bar and haven't tried on Y yet. I have no money to buy a new core sensor 4 bar. But I managed to jump 13.9 m on the xr5 13.5m. And I managed to do some contraloops on this kite with V bar. Such an amazing kite. And how durable it is. Thanks Steven and keep pushing the content.
Hi Viktor, You can buy the high split splitter only, no need for a new bar or anything. Google "V distributor ION North" and you will find it, 13,90 euro in Holland. And I agree with you, Core kites last way longer then the rest. Good luck
Awesome Viktor! Sounds like you’re making the most out of your kite! Maybe the Y splitter that @dajobra mentioned would be a nice option to try the kite on a high Y and see the difference. I think you’ll enjoy it a bit better.
I agree with all your practical findings on flying behavior, however the reasoning why this change in flying behavior appears is in my opinion not correct, it is not due the opening up of the kite. But with a Y splice the kite will get addional twist in LE or basically the frontlines on LEFT and Right now have interaction, cross active and also act a bit as steering line. During steering the kite, the load on the left and right front line is not the same. There fore the Y splice move out of center virtually lengthening a bit the front line on the side were you are steering, basically the LE moves back, whilst opposite other side of kite frontline is shortened. Additionally as the Y splice move in space also the loading point or center of load under kite moves and no longer is exactly in middle of kite. The higher the Y splice to the kite the more this effect, (with some limitations indeed) So the results Y splice = more pivotable spin steering around it's center. more snappy playfull steering. Less bar input shorter stroke. Less power in the turns as kite no longer be equaly supported, one side extra depowered. With low V, kite makes more kite flying turn. needs more stroke and bar input, keeps a more constant pull in turn.
Thanks for this explanation! I was aware that the changes do not only come from the opening or closing of the kite, but did not get the chance to go this deep in to the physics of the Y split height. (Therefor decided to leave it out of the video) Totally agree with your statement and appreciate the explanation!
Good video. Would love to see some more advanced foiling videos. Very hard to find anything good out there and the videos you made a few years back are great!
Noted! It’s been low on my list as I haven’t been foiling as much as I used to. But I’ll try and shoot some more content on my next foiling trip (probably only next summer)
I know you’re sponsored by Core, but it would be nice for you to repeat the study with a line of kites designed for low Y lines, to see if the same or different conclusions would be reached.
Big thanks Steven! Spot on vid on this subject! One BIG safety issue question, hope you will elaborate: does is matter on what line you fix the splitter? Because you have a fixed side, and a side the other line sides through, so basically it becomes a stopper?
Loved the video!!! Best discussion of this topic ever. Could you, possibly, add a "Part 2" to the video, where you test the Core bar set to the high-Y on kites by other brands that were designed for low V (as most other brands used low V as a standard)? I would love to see that. Here is my experience: I have ridden Ozone Edge and various Cabrinha kites mostly, all with Cabrinha bars. THEN, I bought a Core XR (11m) and the Core Sensor 3 Pro bar because of its reputation for being the best kite for high jumps. However, I was disappointed because the Core kite+bar felt "imprecise", squishy, almost as if the kite was connected through rubber lines. After watching your video, I now think that my experience with the Core XR was very much what you describe for a high Y setup. I still have Core bar, which is practically new (sold the XR kite). Now I am wondering, whether the Core bar with the high Y could be useful for smaller kites designed for a low V, if used for wave riding or in especially high winds. Therefore, would love a "Part 2", if you are able to test a high Y Core bar with some non-Core kites. Thanks again!!
I’ll have a look if I’m able to do something like this in Capetown, could be interesting indeed. The bar feeling from CORE is fairly different to that of Cabrinha and ozone, but in the end you can be as precise. (Just takes a bit to get used to, this does take time however)
Thanks! What I noticed with Cabrinha bar is that the effect is more pronounced: I could backstall the 7m Section quite easily in fairly strong wind. Recently I switched from 7m Section (which was at its 600th hour of use) to a newer GTS 9m² with Core Bar. Indeed, the depowering is much more effective and I feel comfortable foilng up to 14 m/s. Stronger days are not unseen in Dahab where I live so I was looking at adding a small size to my quiver. Today I got Reach 5m 2021 and will test it soon with my Core Bar. I am concerned that with the opposite effect it can't be trimmed and would need extenders on the front lines. Looking forward to next days testing the 5m.
600 hours of use, that's amazing! If you're riding one bar for different kites and you notice that the steering lines need to be shorter for 1 specific kite there is an easy fix. You can just make an extra knot in your steering line pigtail on both sides, shortens them quite a bit.
@@stevenakkersdijk thanks a lot! yeah, two years living non-stop in Dahab make for quite a few sessions. The center and middle of the kite are still ok but the trailing edge is completely obliterated. I gave it to one of our guys and they took time and material to change the trailing edge entirely up to about 1/5th of the width of the kite. They will use the kite for beginner lessons.
Dahab is fantastic! Great diving (The Islands, Bells to Blue Hole, Gabr el Bint was my favs)! I imagine u can kite everywhere right, laguna in front of Swiss in/Hilton or up/down to Asalah and back? But keep this town a secret okay 😉
True, but I do enjoy the wider view from a high Y when I ride with a surfboard (otherwise it crops the spray and a large part of the wave) There are still a lot of functionality topics that I didn't even get to 😅
Depending on the bar that you're riding you can also pull on a single line with the High Y split, but it is indeed easier with a low V. I'm not a big fan for self landing, but if this is something you often need to do it could be a dealbreaker.
@@stevenakkersdijk I have been riding a lot in places, where I’m alone. Also, if the Y is 3 m up and I shorten from 24 m to 21 m lines it’s like having a v. How do I pull a single front line on a high y?
With my 9m XR8 I have self landed many many times by diving the kite and when 3-4m off the beach turn the kite into the wind. Just before it stalls I reach up and pull the outside line hard as in a loop. The kite usually stalls and falls somewhat gently on the leading edge. If the tip is catching the wind I take four steps to grab the appropriate centre line and give a yank. If it doesn't go as planned, I back up, pull lines tight and try again. The 11m XR8 is a little more difficult to do when powered but it can work. You need a good clean beach with a clear downwind section to use your QR if all else fails.
@@janniklassikorra5184I put kite on side and slowly work up center line until u get to Y and then pull on high part of Y… lands as easy as low V. Elite water sports has video on self landing core kites
@@janniklassikorra5184i did this in high winds (25kt on 9 or 35+ on 7m). You just grab both power lines, above your depower if possible. Then you walk upwind until you can grab only one line. I don’t see why this has such a big impact on Y or V. As long as the back lines are not in tension the kite depowers easily. Now, it is always better with a partner to land especially in high winds.
@Steven - informative content as always. Thank you. I'd like to ask : at 10:30 you are saying 3S is not suitable for fixed bridle kite a.k.a Pace Pro . Now, here is the dilemma I have. Heading to Brazil in 7 days ( for a full month ) and all I have is 2 x Sensor 4S bars and 1 x Sensor 3 bar ( and my quiver is Pace Pro ( 12, 9, 7 ). I couldn't get the 3rd Sensor 4 as a back up - due to the supply issue. Been waiting for Sensor 4 pro bars for almost 2 months now ( kites arrived but no sign of the Pro Bars. My question to you is - if for some reason I screw up one of the sensor 4 bars ( we kite as a couple ), can I use the splitter and place it to Sensor 3 bar as a back up? . Thanks in advance. Much love from Toronto.
You have a nice trip lined up! There is indeed a low stock of sensor 4 bars, happy to hear you already have 2 bars for your trip. The "issue" with the sensor 3 and Pace pro is the difference in line length when you release, as this is not big enough and can cause the kite to start looping. Unfortunately there is no fix around this as it's physically limited by the saftey line lenght. The kites will fly perfect on both bars, but the problems arise when you release... Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to fix this.
Hi Steven, as always great video lots of discussions about the topic now finally somebody actually put in the hours! I "needed" the new bar because of the 15m juice we bought because of the low weight while traveling and it not being compatible with the S3, maybe the fixed bridle also has a play in your findings? btw where is the spot at 3min 45 sec I think my wife would like to check it out!
Thanks! Totally agree that there was some information missing on the internet. For sure the fixed bridle also makes a big difference btu I always tested the same kite on both Low V and High Y in order to see what happens with the bar feeling etc. The spot at 3:45 is Le morne kite beach in Mauritius, very nice!
Thanks for the interesting video... I have a question or just a curiosity.... Could be possible a kite with the 2 back lines and only 1 single front line that can also be the unique safety line....??? In total 3 lines only instead of the traditional 4.....?????
You could probably make something like that work, but it would require structural support in the leading edge of the kite in order to direct all the power towards the one line.
funny you talk about this topic as I broke a line on my bar with low V configuration and took an old bar with a high Y until I could replace the line. I went out for a session and it turns out I hated the feeling of the bar, something was wrong with it, I felt the bar was kind of hard in my hands, surely the kite was not designed for this type of configuration...anyway, thanks for your nice review as usual ;)
Sorry to hear about your line, but in a way it’s great you got to experience this once. Glad you found the video useful and I wish you many good sessions with the right bar 😉
I tried a evo sls 2021 with a north bar (low V) and all of a sudden I couldn't ride upwind anymore 😂 there was enough power in the kite but some how the windwindow changed. Super weird feeling. Thanks for the video ❤
Question about setting the placement of the high y splitter: can it be moved anywhere along the power line or should it only be attached to the thick yellow area? I need it much further away from the bar for my D/Labs
It should only be placed on the thick yellow area so basically you only have 1 height option for the High Y. Do you know at what height the Duotone bar the Y split? On the new CORE bar I believe it's at 6 meters.
@@stevenakkersdijk Correct the new core is at 6m but the Duotone click bar has 3 areas to attach the splitter. They are at 6m like the core and then 8m and then 10m. I have my splitter at 10m. Guess I’ll find out how differently it acts with the splitter 4m closer to the bar. Curious if anyone has placed the splitter in different locations and experienced any wear issues.
@@michaelbenedetti945 I'm expecting that there will be additional wear on the steering lines when you start moving it to different places that are not made for it, not something I'm willing to try with my line sets. As it's possible to move the Y splitter on the Duotone bar you could consider to test 6m vs 10m and see what you like better.
High y makes everything more complicated, put a lot of stress in a very localized point, does not allow fixing the lines after a kite flip, does not allow or make more limited the options for light wind Relaunch, make self landing more difficult, if some debris get tangled, there is no way to reach it, etc,etc.
Can’t say I disagree with you on the above points, but as a rider who’s been riding a high Y for the past 10 years I can’t say that those points have bothered me that much.
Surprising, to be honest i was feeling totally different. To me my personal eleveight RS is much more reactive with the low V than the F-One bandit that i am teaching with (Y). I feel i have more bar pressure on the RS. But yeah i agree that it is turning more on the tip of the kite. Even if i know that you guys have much better analysis than me. But still thats how i felt. Maybe because of the brand. I think maybe i felt so because F-One is just super bad 😂
Thanks for sharing! There is a big difference in the feeling of kite brands regardless of the height if the Y split. When I tried a bandit a long time ago it felt like it had little bungee cords in the steering lines, could hardly feel what the kite was doing at all. (Not sure how it is now)
Don’t think I’ll dedicate a video to this, but I can imagine that the GTS (designed for high Y) shows some jelly fishing on a low V. You could try to pump the kite a bit harder (don’t go higher than 9psi) or get a high Y bar and that should help with the issue.
@@stevenakkersdijk I have a Naish phoenix 12 meters, and with high Y I lose a lot of relaunch in light winds, too much :/, anyway a love the kite, greetings friend
I'm looking to buy an XR7 but the sensor 3S pro bar is expensive. I only have a slingshot sentry v1 in low V, is it a problem if I want to go for Big air not to have a high Y with this kite? Thanks in advance!
The kite will fly with the slingshot bar and a low V, I’ve also seen people riding a north bar with low V on the XR kites. But I think the kite will turn slower and more around your tip, not so great for kite loops (probably it will also be less stable) You could have a look for a normal core bar on the 2nd hand market
@charles Spot on, I got the same set-up, I suggest to get a "Duotone/North V Distributor II", that's that V-line-splitter-screw-on-thingy for €15 and experiment with it, like to hear your thoughts! (I like that specific brand/type, because the metal hole is closed, as others are not so you can fix them easier, but my thought is that the edges can damage the line running through)
I have the new core pro 4 and reversing the pigtails is a PITA ;) - so hard to get them apart without hurting the fabric - I love to fly the bar with my Evo 10 dlab
If you've been riding the bar it is hard to reverse them indeed. Soaking them in water helps, but it's still a hard job. I usually chew on them a little bit, if you choose the right teeth it doesn't hurt the fabric 😅
Interesting, but given that you’re a pro and the fact that you couldn’t pinpoint the effects rightaway is enough information for me to conclude that this is an issue that plays in the tiny last percentages only. For me as a medium advanced amateur, this clearly plays little to no role at all.
In some cases the difference can be huge, such that every level 5 rider would notice it immediately. In my case it was a North kite with an old bar which had a really high Y. Since Core has in comparison a lower Y the difference (from Y to V) should be smaller but still noticable for someone who knows his/her kite.
@@vicbauwens that’s a small difference, but that mainly depends on the kite. Some kites are ok to be pinched some are not. If you ride short lines you will experience the combined effect of a smaller window and the pinching of the split. I had some nice session with a 7m and 16m lines where I forgot to remove the split. It was crazy responsive and I could place the kite everywhere in the window while playing with the back stall. If that’s something you like while foiling or in the waves. For jumping that’s not the best feeling.
Thanks for the great replies! As mentioned it really depends on the kite and bar combination you’re riding. Sometimes it’s also not needed to feel exactly what’s changing on the kite in order to feel that something is “off”. On the CORE kites I’ve ridden with a low V the changes can be felt, but they don’t seem destructive as some other setups might be.
Q: how about fixed bridle vs pulley? All the same? Off topic, I have a d-lab juice 13m and I use it way more then I expected. Could you guy's make me a proper Core replacement, the LWpro or something. The Juice is awesome, but it's not core quality. I do fly it on the sensor 4 now, way better bar then the 3 series.
I think that the global lines will still be the same, but every kite behaves in their own way to the changes and some of them will be more notable than others. Think there might be something on the way 😇
Worst ting about a high Y is that it makes it harder to self land the kite because you can not see which front line is the top one so you don't know what line to pull to lay down the kite when self landing.
such a cool video. would love it even more if i would not feel that you want to sell me a core nexus with the brand new sensor 4 bar that allows changes and and and 🤪
Glad you enjoyed the video! For me the only way to make these videos available on youtube without any subscriptions is by having some advertisement in there to cover the costs 😉 Hope you can excuse me for that 😇
On the Sensor 4 bar the Y is at 6m high and the sensor 3 bar it's about 5m high. Have felt a difference between the two, but not enough to prefer one over the other. Not sure how high Duotone has their split, but I think it's also around 6 meters,
I hate to say it, but the conclusions on 'effects of the kite' are a bit misleading in my eyes. Basically, the chart on 9:28 should mention that the effects mentioned on either side, are only applicable when it's a change from the original setup. Because you could re-tune the bridles and steering lines of that same kite to fly the same on low-v, as it does on high-y (well not me or you, but a kite designer). I mean take a Rebel or XR, they are very open kites with a high-y split, because the bridles are tuned to that split. You can have a low V kite that jellyfishes just as little as a high-y, it just requires proper bridle tuning. So yeah, although you're conclusions are correct, like getting a little more slack when removing the split, the way you're presenting it, is as if low-v kites give more slack by definition. Which is kinda misleading buying advice in my eyes. I do like the conclusion when shortening lines, because that's something a lot of people seem to forget
Hey Niels, thanks for bringing this up and I totally understand your point. Personally I always wanted to talk from a perspective of changing from one to the other and what kind of effects it could have. But I do see how the overview can be mis interpreted as you mentioned.
@@stevenakkersdijk Re-reading my comment makes it sound harsher than I meant it, haha. But yeah I totally understand the perspective from which you mean it! I just hope people won't misinterpret it and start generalizing low/high split characteristics. Cheers for putting this stuff out though, this one must've been a lot of work (again) :)
@@nielsdercksen9659 Always a hard part from writing comments on the internet 😅 Didn't take it in a bad way. And yes it was a long one again, especially because there are so many ways to look at it 😅
You have put a lot of work in this video, but there's some very important issues with it: 1. All observations and statements you make apply ONLY to the Core kites you tested with, and are irrelevant outside of that scope 2. The shape of a kite is MAINLY controlled by the bridles and the Y or V split have negligible impact AND the impact will be very different with different brands 3. Not explaining the fact that you should ONLY use as emergency the trim to correct for uneven line lengths, is major mistake. When you do that, you lose depower, and that is dangerous. The only proper way to correct this is by extending the flying lines accordingly, which also will be different for each kite size, meaning if you decide to fly your Core kites with V setting, you should modify the length of the pigtails for EACH kite, to ensure the lines are the same length.
Thank you for sharing your opinion, been running an advanced coaching kite camp over the past week so excuse the late reply. 1. It is true that I've only tested on a CORE kite, but I did test on both fixed bridle and pulley bridles. Therefor I don't see the findings as irrelevant for other kite brands, especially the ones that also have a high Y setup like Duotone and F-One. 2. For sure the design of a kite including arc, LE diameter, bridle setup, profile depth and all those things are the main driving forces behind the flying characteristics and looking back at the video I see that I have not stated this clear enough. I do believe that the general changes that can be felt in the kite when changing around the Y split height will remain similar across different brands, but some effects might be more noticeable than others. 3. I agree that bigger and permanent trim changes should be made by adjusting the steering line length underneath the floaters or by using different knot on the steering line attachment at the kite (CORE kites have 3 knots as an option) In order to keep this video compact I've not covered a full trimming tutorial and rather refer to one in the video. I've also assumed that people watching this video have a bit of knowledge and don't ride with the depower line fully pulled in, to compensate for their horribly trimmed kites.
Also, pulling the opposite front line to the steering line you are pulling greatly improves the relaunch ability of the kite. Ex. Left hand on right front line if the right hand is on the bar pulling the right steering line Can't do that with high Y
@@stevenakkersdijk Eleveight but works on all inflatable kites with Low V bar. That's particularly useful on High Aspect Ratio kites that struggle to turn 😉
Great video as always. Love how well you structure things!
One thing that makes a difference to me when I ride with a V is how the bar spins back automatically after a loop or rotation - because of the gap between the front lines of the V.
I typically ride with a Y and sometimes don't know which direction to spin my bar back.
Also I feel that on a Y the lines suffer more from riding with twisted lines because the friction is always on the same place.
The V seems to distribute that friction.
I also thought this would merit a mention. Easier to self-land with a low V too.
Amazing video though Steve. You're such a pro, on and off the water.
Interesting! I’ve heard that certain bars don’t untwist well due to weight (they actually spin past the correct point) but never heard about the difference with the Y split. It makes sense to me and I’ll try to pay some more attention to it next time.
Agreed Jason, the self landing is easier on the low v indeed similar to untangling your lines after an invert.
Thanks for solving some great doubts in bar configurations. Knowing all this aspects helps the ones who want to improve in safety and riding.
It's my pleasure!
Great video. In the duotones case, I tried the Evo with the original trust bar without the high Y split, and it was terrible.
I hope every brand can make a similar video explaining this important topic. Thanks, Steven.
Thanks for sharing that experience, you’re not the first who I heard that from.
I do think it’s an interesting topic that not enough brands are communicating about.
I've been waiting for years for this explanation!
I've always had a sensation that the high Y is my favorite, as I like kitewave and downloops when downwinding in Brazil, but I couldn't explain why.
Thanks for the the video 🙏
It's my pleasure! Happy to give you a bit more insight in to the subject. Enjoy your downwinders!
Best discussion and information ever about this topic.
Thank you!
Thanks a lot Steven! Appreciate your efforts!
I ride XRs for about 5 years on a V bar and haven't tried on Y yet.
I have no money to buy a new core sensor 4 bar.
But I managed to jump 13.9 m on the xr5 13.5m. And I managed to do some contraloops on this kite with V bar. Such an amazing kite. And how durable it is.
Thanks Steven and keep pushing the content.
Hi Viktor, You can buy the high split splitter only, no need for a new bar or anything. Google "V distributor ION North" and you will find it, 13,90 euro in Holland. And I agree with you, Core kites last way longer then the rest. Good luck
@@dajobra thanks! 🙏
Awesome Viktor! Sounds like you’re making the most out of your kite! Maybe the Y splitter that @dajobra mentioned would be a nice option to try the kite on a high Y and see the difference. I think you’ll enjoy it a bit better.
wow best video on this topic. Thank you.
Glad you think so!
I agree with all your practical findings on flying behavior, however the reasoning why this change in flying behavior appears is in my opinion not correct, it is not due the opening up of the kite. But with a Y splice the kite will get addional twist in LE or basically the frontlines on LEFT and Right now have interaction, cross active and also act a bit as steering line. During steering the kite, the load on the left and right front line is not the same. There fore the Y splice move out of center virtually lengthening a bit the front line on the side were you are steering, basically the LE moves back, whilst opposite other side of kite frontline is shortened. Additionally as the Y splice move in space also the loading point or center of load under kite moves and no longer is exactly in middle of kite.
The higher the Y splice to the kite the more this effect, (with some limitations indeed) So the results Y splice = more pivotable spin steering around it's center. more snappy playfull steering. Less bar input shorter stroke. Less power in the turns as kite no longer be equaly supported, one side extra depowered. With low V, kite makes more kite flying turn. needs more stroke and bar input, keeps a more constant pull in turn.
Thanks for this explanation! I was aware that the changes do not only come from the opening or closing of the kite, but did not get the chance to go this deep in to the physics of the Y split height. (Therefor decided to leave it out of the video)
Totally agree with your statement and appreciate the explanation!
Awesome Steven…this was a much needed video
Thanks! I totally agree!
Another amazing video! Always wanted to know about this after riding low v kites like the NORTH Orbit and high Vs like the CORE XR Pro or PACE
Glad you liked it! Enjoy your sessions!
Good video. Would love to see some more advanced foiling videos. Very hard to find anything good out there and the videos you made a few years back are great!
Noted! It’s been low on my list as I haven’t been foiling as much as I used to. But I’ll try and shoot some more content on my next foiling trip (probably only next summer)
@@stevenakkersdijkawesome man, thanks!
Very interesting and well-explained video. Thank you
You are welcome!
I know you’re sponsored by Core, but it would be nice for you to repeat the study with a line of kites designed for low Y lines, to see if the same or different conclusions would be reached.
Totally agree! I didn't have the time / option myself, but do see a great value in it.
Big thanks Steven! Spot on vid on this subject!
One BIG safety issue question, hope you will elaborate: does is matter on what line you fix the splitter?
Because you have a fixed side, and a side the other line sides through, so basically it becomes a stopper?
Big thanxs…been waiting for….amazing Cape Town XR pro and PACE testimonthials ahead…..see u all at the beach häppy CORE Kiters
Looking forward to it!
Loved the video!!! Best discussion of this topic ever. Could you, possibly, add a "Part 2" to the video, where you test the Core bar set to the high-Y on kites by other brands that were designed for low V (as most other brands used low V as a standard)? I would love to see that. Here is my experience: I have ridden Ozone Edge and various Cabrinha kites mostly, all with Cabrinha bars. THEN, I bought a Core XR (11m) and the Core Sensor 3 Pro bar because of its reputation for being the best kite for high jumps. However, I was disappointed because the Core kite+bar felt "imprecise", squishy, almost as if the kite was connected through rubber lines. After watching your video, I now think that my experience with the Core XR was very much what you describe for a high Y setup. I still have Core bar, which is practically new (sold the XR kite). Now I am wondering, whether the Core bar with the high Y could be useful for smaller kites designed for a low V, if used for wave riding or in especially high winds. Therefore, would love a "Part 2", if you are able to test a high Y Core bar with some non-Core kites. Thanks again!!
I’ll have a look if I’m able to do something like this in Capetown, could be interesting indeed.
The bar feeling from CORE is fairly different to that of Cabrinha and ozone, but in the end you can be as precise. (Just takes a bit to get used to, this does take time however)
Thanks! What I noticed with Cabrinha bar is that the effect is more pronounced: I could backstall the 7m Section quite easily in fairly strong wind. Recently I switched from 7m Section (which was at its 600th hour of use) to a newer GTS 9m² with Core Bar. Indeed, the depowering is much more effective and I feel comfortable foilng up to 14 m/s. Stronger days are not unseen in Dahab where I live so I was looking at adding a small size to my quiver. Today I got Reach 5m 2021 and will test it soon with my Core Bar. I am concerned that with the opposite effect it can't be trimmed and would need extenders on the front lines. Looking forward to next days testing the 5m.
600 hours of use, that's amazing! If you're riding one bar for different kites and you notice that the steering lines need to be shorter for 1 specific kite there is an easy fix. You can just make an extra knot in your steering line pigtail on both sides, shortens them quite a bit.
@@stevenakkersdijk thanks a lot!
yeah, two years living non-stop in Dahab make for quite a few sessions. The center and middle of the kite are still ok but the trailing edge is completely obliterated. I gave it to one of our guys and they took time and material to change the trailing edge entirely up to about 1/5th of the width of the kite. They will use the kite for beginner lessons.
Dahab is fantastic!
Great diving (The Islands, Bells to Blue Hole, Gabr el Bint was my favs)!
I imagine u can kite everywhere right, laguna in front of Swiss in/Hilton or up/down to Asalah and back?
But keep this town a secret okay 😉
@ErikO-020 yeah! Life gets a bit repetitive if you stay long enough so I moved to Mui Ne, Vietnam
Props for core for making the bar adjustable for different kites! Great video again!
Thanks! 👍
Great Video! Low V is also nicer for using a line mount with a GoPro!
True, but I do enjoy the wider view from a high Y when I ride with a surfboard (otherwise it crops the spray and a large part of the wave) There are still a lot of functionality topics that I didn't even get to 😅
Makes sense for it to backstall more, you added whatever length the bend in the line took away before
Exactly!
Have been self-landing a lot lately and would not buy a kite with a Y again. V just enables self-landing.
Depending on the bar that you're riding you can also pull on a single line with the High Y split, but it is indeed easier with a low V. I'm not a big fan for self landing, but if this is something you often need to do it could be a dealbreaker.
@@stevenakkersdijk I have been riding a lot in places, where I’m alone. Also, if the Y is 3 m up and I shorten from 24 m to 21 m lines it’s like having a v. How do I pull a single front line on a high y?
With my 9m XR8 I have self landed many many times by diving the kite and when 3-4m off the beach turn the kite into the wind. Just before it stalls I reach up and pull the outside line hard as in a loop. The kite usually stalls and falls somewhat gently on the leading edge. If the tip is catching the wind I take four steps to grab the appropriate centre line and give a yank. If it doesn't go as planned, I back up, pull lines tight and try again. The 11m XR8 is a little more difficult to do when powered but it can work. You need a good clean beach with a clear downwind section to use your QR if all else fails.
@@janniklassikorra5184I put kite on side and slowly work up center line until u get to Y and then pull on high part of Y… lands as easy as low V. Elite water sports has video on self landing core kites
@@janniklassikorra5184i did this in high winds (25kt on 9 or 35+ on 7m). You just grab both power lines, above your depower if possible. Then you walk upwind until you can grab only one line. I don’t see why this has such a big impact on Y or V. As long as the back lines are not in tension the kite depowers easily. Now, it is always better with a partner to land especially in high winds.
@Steven - informative content as always. Thank you. I'd like to ask : at 10:30 you are saying 3S is not suitable for fixed bridle kite a.k.a Pace Pro . Now, here is the dilemma I have. Heading to Brazil in 7 days ( for a full month ) and all I have is 2 x Sensor 4S bars and 1 x Sensor 3 bar ( and my quiver is Pace Pro ( 12, 9, 7 ). I couldn't get the 3rd Sensor 4 as a back up - due to the supply issue. Been waiting for Sensor 4 pro bars for almost 2 months now ( kites arrived but no sign of the Pro Bars. My question to you is - if for some reason I screw up one of the sensor 4 bars ( we kite as a couple ), can I use the splitter and place it to Sensor 3 bar as a back up? . Thanks in advance. Much love from Toronto.
You have a nice trip lined up!
There is indeed a low stock of sensor 4 bars, happy to hear you already have 2 bars for your trip.
The "issue" with the sensor 3 and Pace pro is the difference in line length when you release, as this is not big enough and can cause the kite to start looping. Unfortunately there is no fix around this as it's physically limited by the saftey line lenght.
The kites will fly perfect on both bars, but the problems arise when you release... Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to fix this.
@@stevenakkersdijk - appreciate you very much! Keep the amazing content coming.
great explanation. very interesting. Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Hi Steven, as always great video lots of discussions about the topic now finally somebody actually put in the hours! I "needed" the new bar because of the 15m juice we bought because of the low weight while traveling and it not being compatible with the S3, maybe the fixed bridle also has a play in your findings? btw where is the spot at 3min 45 sec I think my wife would like to check it out!
Thanks! Totally agree that there was some information missing on the internet. For sure the fixed bridle also makes a big difference btu I always tested the same kite on both Low V and High Y in order to see what happens with the bar feeling etc.
The spot at 3:45 is Le morne kite beach in Mauritius, very nice!
Thanks for the interesting video...
I have a question or just a curiosity....
Could be possible a kite with the 2 back lines and only 1 single front line that can also be the unique safety line....???
In total 3 lines only instead of the traditional 4.....?????
You could probably make something like that work, but it would require structural support in the leading edge of the kite in order to direct all the power towards the one line.
funny you talk about this topic as I broke a line on my bar with low V configuration and took an old bar with a high Y until I could replace the line. I went out for a session and it turns out I hated the feeling of the bar, something was wrong with it, I felt the bar was kind of hard in my hands, surely the kite was not designed for this type of configuration...anyway, thanks for your nice review as usual ;)
Sorry to hear about your line, but in a way it’s great you got to experience this once. Glad you found the video useful and I wish you many good sessions with the right bar 😉
Great explanation ! Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
I tried a evo sls 2021 with a north bar (low V) and all of a sudden I couldn't ride upwind anymore 😂 there was enough power in the kite but some how the windwindow changed. Super weird feeling. Thanks for the video ❤
Oh wow! Wasn’t expecting such a big change. Someone else did mention that the evo was not pleasant on the low V.
Question about setting the placement of the high y splitter: can it be moved anywhere along the power line or should it only be attached to the thick yellow area? I need it much further away from the bar for my D/Labs
It should only be placed on the thick yellow area so basically you only have 1 height option for the High Y.
Do you know at what height the Duotone bar the Y split? On the new CORE bar I believe it's at 6 meters.
@@stevenakkersdijk Correct the new core is at 6m but the Duotone click bar has 3 areas to attach the splitter. They are at 6m like the core and then 8m and then 10m. I have my splitter at 10m. Guess I’ll find out how differently it acts with the splitter 4m closer to the bar. Curious if anyone has placed the splitter in different locations and experienced any wear issues.
@@michaelbenedetti945 I'm expecting that there will be additional wear on the steering lines when you start moving it to different places that are not made for it, not something I'm willing to try with my line sets. As it's possible to move the Y splitter on the Duotone bar you could consider to test 6m vs 10m and see what you like better.
Danke für die Information
My pleasure!
High y makes everything more complicated, put a lot of stress in a very localized point, does not allow fixing the lines after a kite flip, does not allow or make more limited the options for light wind Relaunch, make self landing more difficult, if some debris get tangled, there is no way to reach it, etc,etc.
Can’t say I disagree with you on the above points, but as a rider who’s been riding a high Y for the past 10 years I can’t say that those points have bothered me that much.
Surprising, to be honest i was feeling totally different. To me my personal eleveight RS is much more reactive with the low V than the F-One bandit that i am teaching with (Y). I feel i have more bar pressure on the RS. But yeah i agree that it is turning more on the tip of the kite.
Even if i know that you guys have much better analysis than me.
But still thats how i felt. Maybe because of the brand. I think maybe i felt so because F-One is just super bad 😂
Thanks for sharing! There is a big difference in the feeling of kite brands regardless of the height if the Y split. When I tried a bandit a long time ago it felt like it had little bungee cords in the steering lines, could hardly feel what the kite was doing at all. (Not sure how it is now)
Finally! So helpful!
Glad you think so!
Thanks，Great video，I was learned
Glad to hear that!
Can you talk about core kites and bar pressure? Compared to other brands.
Would love too, but I haven't ridden enough other brands to be honest.
Nice !!! Shared!
Thank you!
Good stuff 🤙I prefer low V 👌
Thanks! Totally understand 🤙
Did you test low-v bars with any kites specifically designed for a low-v bar? Theres only kites from one brand in this comparison
Unfortunately I have not.
Great job
Thanks!
nice, please make a video on "jellyfishing" effect, it happens to me with the 8m gts with low v
Don’t think I’ll dedicate a video to this, but I can imagine that the GTS (designed for high Y) shows some jelly fishing on a low V. You could try to pump the kite a bit harder (don’t go higher than 9psi) or get a high Y bar and that should help with the issue.
great, thanks!
You're welcome!
Great viedo!! thanks
You're welcome!
Cool! Great video, What about the relaunch? :)
I’m not sure 🤔 haven’t tried out that aspect
@@stevenakkersdijk I have a Naish phoenix 12 meters, and with high Y I lose a lot of relaunch in light winds, too much :/, anyway a love the kite, greetings friend
@@Skaescueladekite That's good to know! It could be that the low V allows the kite to warp a bit more and therefore have a better relaunch.
I'm looking to buy an XR7 but the sensor 3S pro bar is expensive. I only have a slingshot sentry v1 in low V, is it a problem if I want to go for Big air not to have a high Y with this kite?
Thanks in advance!
I would only fly core kites with core bars
The kite will fly with the slingshot bar and a low V, I’ve also seen people riding a north bar with low V on the XR kites. But I think the kite will turn slower and more around your tip, not so great for kite loops (probably it will also be less stable)
You could have a look for a normal core bar on the 2nd hand market
@charles Spot on, I got the same set-up, I suggest to get a "Duotone/North V Distributor II", that's that V-line-splitter-screw-on-thingy for €15 and experiment with it, like to hear your thoughts!
(I like that specific brand/type, because the metal hole is closed, as others are not so you can fix them easier, but my thought is that the edges can damage the line running through)
I have the new core pro 4 and reversing the pigtails is a PITA ;) - so hard to get them apart without hurting the fabric - I love to fly the bar with my Evo 10 dlab
If you've been riding the bar it is hard to reverse them indeed. Soaking them in water helps, but it's still a hard job. I usually chew on them a little bit, if you choose the right teeth it doesn't hurt the fabric 😅
@@stevenakkersdijk hahahahaha - luv you brother - send me a bar to try this method please! Cheers from Sardinia!
@@Nilz4FR 😂Cheers back, hope to come back there one day.
@@Nilz4FR - Coming to Sardinia soon. Let's connect brother.
@@tuncher_ferad drop me a PM, I am here for 2 months! Best time of the year!
Interesting, but given that you’re a pro and the fact that you couldn’t pinpoint the effects rightaway is enough information for me to conclude that this is an issue that plays in the tiny last percentages only. For me as a medium advanced amateur, this clearly plays little to no role at all.
In some cases the difference can be huge, such that every level 5 rider would notice it immediately. In my case it was a North kite with an old bar which had a really high Y. Since Core has in comparison a lower Y the difference (from Y to V) should be smaller but still noticable for someone who knows his/her kite.
@@vicbauwens that’s a small difference, but that mainly depends on the kite. Some kites are ok to be pinched some are not. If you ride short lines you will experience the combined effect of a smaller window and the pinching of the split. I had some nice session with a 7m and 16m lines where I forgot to remove the split. It was crazy responsive and I could place the kite everywhere in the window while playing with the back stall. If that’s something you like while foiling or in the waves. For jumping that’s not the best feeling.
Thanks for the great replies! As mentioned it really depends on the kite and bar combination you’re riding.
Sometimes it’s also not needed to feel exactly what’s changing on the kite in order to feel that something is “off”.
On the CORE kites I’ve ridden with a low V the changes can be felt, but they don’t seem destructive as some other setups might be.
Q: how about fixed bridle vs pulley? All the same?
Off topic, I have a d-lab juice 13m and I use it way more then I expected. Could you guy's make me a proper Core replacement, the LWpro or something. The Juice is awesome, but it's not core quality. I do fly it on the sensor 4 now, way better bar then the 3 series.
I think that the global lines will still be the same, but every kite behaves in their own way to the changes and some of them will be more notable than others.
Think there might be something on the way 😇
Worst ting about a high Y is that it makes it harder to self land the kite because you can not see which front line is the top one so you don't know what line to pull to lay down the kite when self landing.
It is harder indeed, but on certain bars you can actually see which one is on top.
Where is this spot?
There is a big mix of spots in this video, so you'll have to be more specific.
such a cool video. would love it even more if i would not feel that you want to sell me a core nexus with the brand new sensor 4 bar that allows changes and and and 🤪
Glad you enjoyed the video! For me the only way to make these videos available on youtube without any subscriptions is by having some advertisement in there to cover the costs 😉 Hope you can excuse me for that 😇
@@stevenakkersdijkhey fair point. I think you and your riding itself is the advertisement for them. Keep it up! 🎉
How high the high V is usually set? Have you played around with it? :)
On the Sensor 4 bar the Y is at 6m high and the sensor 3 bar it's about 5m high. Have felt a difference between the two, but not enough to prefer one over the other.
Not sure how high Duotone has their split, but I think it's also around 6 meters,
I hate to say it, but the conclusions on 'effects of the kite' are a bit misleading in my eyes. Basically, the chart on 9:28 should mention that the effects mentioned on either side, are only applicable when it's a change from the original setup. Because you could re-tune the bridles and steering lines of that same kite to fly the same on low-v, as it does on high-y (well not me or you, but a kite designer). I mean take a Rebel or XR, they are very open kites with a high-y split, because the bridles are tuned to that split. You can have a low V kite that jellyfishes just as little as a high-y, it just requires proper bridle tuning. So yeah, although you're conclusions are correct, like getting a little more slack when removing the split, the way you're presenting it, is as if low-v kites give more slack by definition. Which is kinda misleading buying advice in my eyes. I do like the conclusion when shortening lines, because that's something a lot of people seem to forget
Hey Niels, thanks for bringing this up and I totally understand your point. Personally I always wanted to talk from a perspective of changing from one to the other and what kind of effects it could have. But I do see how the overview can be mis interpreted as you mentioned.
@@stevenakkersdijk Re-reading my comment makes it sound harsher than I meant it, haha. But yeah I totally understand the perspective from which you mean it! I just hope people won't misinterpret it and start generalizing low/high split characteristics. Cheers for putting this stuff out though, this one must've been a lot of work (again) :)
@@nielsdercksen9659 Always a hard part from writing comments on the internet 😅 Didn't take it in a bad way. And yes it was a long one again, especially because there are so many ways to look at it 😅
Only fone, core and duotone (still) have high-v.
Indeed, and I’m assuming they all have their reasons for it 😉
@@stevenakkersdijk legacy I guess 😝
Are you riding Pace with low V or high Y?
I prefer the high Y for the loops, on the low V the PACE feels a bit slow in comparison but this can be nice for unhooked or freeride
You have put a lot of work in this video, but there's some very important issues with it:
1. All observations and statements you make apply ONLY to the Core kites you tested with, and are irrelevant outside of that scope
2. The shape of a kite is MAINLY controlled by the bridles and the Y or V split have negligible impact AND the impact will be very different with different brands
3. Not explaining the fact that you should ONLY use as emergency the trim to correct for uneven line lengths, is major mistake. When you do that, you lose depower, and that is dangerous. The only proper way to correct this is by extending the flying lines accordingly, which also will be different for each kite size, meaning if you decide to fly your Core kites with V setting, you should modify the length of the pigtails for EACH kite, to ensure the lines are the same length.
Thank you for sharing your opinion, been running an advanced coaching kite camp over the past week so excuse the late reply.
1. It is true that I've only tested on a CORE kite, but I did test on both fixed bridle and pulley bridles. Therefor I don't see the findings as irrelevant for other kite brands, especially the ones that also have a high Y setup like Duotone and F-One.
2. For sure the design of a kite including arc, LE diameter, bridle setup, profile depth and all those things are the main driving forces behind the flying characteristics and looking back at the video I see that I have not stated this clear enough. I do believe that the general changes that can be felt in the kite when changing around the Y split height will remain similar across different brands, but some effects might be more noticeable than others.
3. I agree that bigger and permanent trim changes should be made by adjusting the steering line length underneath the floaters or by using different knot on the steering line attachment at the kite (CORE kites have 3 knots as an option) In order to keep this video compact I've not covered a full trimming tutorial and rather refer to one in the video. I've also assumed that people watching this video have a bit of knowledge and don't ride with the depower line fully pulled in, to compensate for their horribly trimmed kites.
Low V or nothing !
Also, pulling the opposite front line to the steering line you are pulling greatly improves the relaunch ability of the kite.
Ex. Left hand on right front line if the right hand is on the bar pulling the right steering line
Can't do that with high Y
Interesting, never tried out that way of relaunching. What brand kites do you ride?
@@stevenakkersdijk Eleveight but works on all inflatable kites with Low V bar. That's particularly useful on High Aspect Ratio kites that struggle to turn 😉