Max, thanks. A most appreciated video. Information on tool & cutter grinding is like rocking horse poop, and this was very useful to me & I'm sure many others. Thanks again.
Wow Max, this is a fantastic video on sharpening, I have watched Grizillions of videos on sharpening, but never one as informative as this one, thank you so much, Cheers, Paul
Some impressive free handing there Max on the radius! That's not easy. Used to have a saying here that you could walk into any workshop canteen and point out the tool and cutter grinder by counting fingers and thumbs🤭🏴
This was very interesting to me Max as a beginner in the machinist work. Enjoyed watching your process and technique of getting the cutter sharpened for the work. Quite the tool. Thanks for sharing.
you sir are a true master machinist in America all they want to teach is cnc and none of the basics that are manual machinist its a crap pot and if you are going to be a great machininst you must be able to make anything with manual machines and you sir can make anything in your shop that could be cnc made you and joe pie are my go to references for questions i need answered
I learned loads of real world practical stuff from that Max. Video quality excellent. I have 3 volumes of old machining manuals a subscriber gave me. Cheers
This was very interesting. I hadn't seen a tool grinding operation before. I also didn't realize that it depends heavily on the cutter having an even number of teeth.
I think ANCA makes tool grinders in Australia.🙂 Besides that, I like to see the manual tool grinding. It looks very time consuming. Apreciate the clear explanation as well.
Max thanks for the sharpening lessons as some one else say there are a lot of them out there but i got so much more out of yours than all the others combined on another note you are so right here in the Land of Aus we don't get the chance to get parts or cutters or if you do then they won't so much for them you may as well buy new ones if you can get them at all tooling for machines just don't exist at all big Cheers Max thanks once again for n excellent video
I once needed a couple carbide endmills with a nonstandard corner radius. Before going to my EM grinder for a price, I did a deep internet search and found a company that provided EMs with whatever radius you wanted at very little over stock price. When I got them I was shocked to see the radius and reliefs hand ground. But after microscope inspection of the tool and then part inspection, they provided the radius I needed
Takes me back Max, I was put on the CG doing the diameter of end mill od's as a lad, took to it very well (too well) as I was then given boxes and boxes of the ####ing things lol
The cutter worked well, Max. I've first hand experience of one of those cup wheels exploding with that set up, many moons ago while at college, lol. Everybody dived on the floor, lol. Thanks for reminding me. Cheers Tony
Waiting for the right one or even getting tooling into Oz is terrible. I just scored a 6" adjustable Sine tooling plate out of the USA in decent condition. Freight was only a third mortgage on my remaining kidney 🤦♂Overall I think it was still a win 🤣
Hi Max, this video takes me back. We used to have two tool and cutter grinders in the toolroom, one like yours and a Cincinnati that you could dial in helixes which was great for end mills.
G'day, Max. As you already know, I've just watched part one in the Bridgeport challenge. That's because I left you a comment. 😂 We've just watched how the cutting wheel you sharpened with the grinder works, but I hope you have part two of the Bridgeport job ready to upload soon. Cheers, cobber. 👍⚒️🏴
I have used cheap and cheerful Chinese resin bond diamond wheels as well.Great for a finer finish. I have also had to not only dress the wheels true but sometimes turn the bodies to true the face.Not hard to do but amusing that people can make wheels so out of whack and still sell them.Same with slitting saws when the bore is not in the centre of the saw. Keep up the good work Max.
Thankyou Sir, Would like to see more of your machines and how you use them, appreciate your instructions and the explanations why it is done that way. Thank you for helping me improve my backyard butchering, from Gold Coast Qld.
Hi Max, gettig things here in Philippines is challenging compared to Australia. The only place i can get silver steel ground bar is through Radio Spares PH and takes more than 2 weeks ex UK and not cheap. For alloy steel and non ferrous materials have to go to china town Manila, full day trip. Most of the US tooling is worn out or scrapped, the Americans were here from the turn of last century and left in the early sixties.
I've noticed that saw arbors are often a little wonky. They tend to cut more on one side than the other when sawing in the Bridgeport. It doesn't affect the cutting but the lack of concentricity is noticeable. K O Lee expanding mandrels are terrifyingly expensive, though.
Max, you are certainly a clever man, would I be out of place suggesting placing the Radios Gauge from Trevor on top of the tooth and blueing the pattern as a guide prior to cutting them out that way makes life easy and less stress. TOP man more videos please.
Thoroughly enjoyed this....amazing what an 'old timer' can do by eye when making those radius cuts.....before seeing this video, I would have assumed you needed some Fancy Schmantzy Gizmo to do that.... Best Wishes again, Paul in the other 'Sunshine State', Florida
The correct way to sharpen a cutter is to have the tooth being sharpened supported by the tooth rest which resists the force of the wheel. The method shown has the potential for the cutter to rotate thus causing a 'stack' in the old parlance.
Didn't you watch the video the whole way through. Max said what you said and warned about the consequences. Max also said that with experience a person can avoid such catastrophes.
My suggestion just last night actually made the very next video? Unheard of! Never Ever in my Tube History has someone done something that I jokingly suggested the very next day (same day because of the magic line that delineates when it is) ! I am ecstatic!!😊. Max- You just made my existence worth while 😂. Always enjoy your sharing your considerable skills with a mere mortal being 😊. Good on ya Mate 😎
Damn Max, I watched your guard video beginning to look end, then you post this one with zero guard! This is fascinating to me because I have always wondered how resharpening was done, and here I am at 72 being trained by an Aussie on an electric book! This is a crazy thing that we were introduced to, and I am addicted to it as much as the library when I was a kid. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Max great video thanks. When you showed the method of grinding the secondary relief am I correct in thinking the cutter should use the same wheel side as you used in the primary cut. The other side will still jam the wheel, thanks Terry.
Another fascinating one Max. You know Leitz tooling in Malaga have CNC carbide sharpeners that can do all your sharpening if / when needed, if there’s anything you aren’t able to do it with what tooling you have on hand.
my Dawson grinder does not tilt either, However there is a flat back side with a threaded hole, and I made a plate to mount my Themac7 on it, giving me a full tilt either way, as well as rotate and elevate. I have like 5 of those finger deals, 3 are micrometer adjustable. I need to lay it all out and figure out how it all works, I have 4 tubs of tools and hardware, and probably 200 wheels mostly brand new. I have a small machinist vice mounted on a compound angle stand, which is what I use most. 6 yrs, and haven't sharpened a machine tool yet. The CAD boys make this stuff obsolete, so I get it for a song. sometimes I am the only bidder.
Expertly done and explained Max, in the 70's I used to build the Jones and Shipman 310 machine, being a fitter I'm not sure how a machinist would rate them, we certainly sold quite a few, did any make their way to your neck of the woods?
Useful video. Yeah, T & C grinders come up here in Aus, but very rarely with any tooling! I've managed to get some stuff over the years (mostly from the US when shipping was realistic and our dollar was worth something) but do you think I can get a tailstock center that's the correct height for mine! (Cincinnati #2) Cheers (finally subscribed)
Interesting video. Prefer not to hang on to cutter. Relying on thumb is not text book. But a time saving devise. The art of Fitting & Machining is an encylopedia of information. . Found myself revisiting mechanical processes. That require some safe thought.
Max, I enjoy your videos very much and learned a few things. I’m a tool maker in Southern California and I do a lot of odd and repairs and one off parts. I’m curious to know what you charge per hour on a custom one off part. You can tell me in dollars or euros lol. Sometimes I think I’m not charging enough. subscribed, C&B Tools in California.
Custom one off parts , i generally give a quoted approximate fixed price & stick to it .My hourly rates , i do not discuss on social media for various reasons , if you have to pay rent , machine & wage payments etc etc . As there would be quite a variation shop to shop and also internationally . All that you have to remember , custom stuff takes alot more hours including lost hours than small batch production parts but over time the costing margin hopefully balances out . At the end of the day , stick to you quoted & get the job done correctly no matter what . You will soon work out what your hourly rate needs to be . 120 to 140 is pretty common here . Cheers 👍
Nice one . I am still setting my one up . I have to make a lot of the tooling as it is unavailable here , hence some of my unorthodox methods ! Cheers 👍
Thanks for showing this set up. Could you let me know what settings you changed for the secondary clearance angle, I couldn’t see any change in the wheel height or the tooth stop. Could you also tell where you source that type of diamond wheel, the only ones I’ve come across are resin bound Would love to see more of these tool grinding setups
Just looked at the first few minutes. I did this fifty years ago, was taught by an old guy, Tom Costello... Charts for cutting clearance? All you need to know for normal T&C grinding is that to achieve 1 degree clearance you drop your stop/spring finger 8.8 thou per inch of cutter diameter. Sin 1 degree is 0.017455, half of that, since you're calculating the angle on the basis of the cutter radius is 0.0088, as near as dammit. Anyone prepared to argue? Tables? Pffft! Now, the other thing is... The tooth you're sharpening is the tooth that should be supported. Not any other tooth, in the hope that division in manufacture was precise... It may not have been... Now, that may give rise to issues... Such as when gullets are shallow, with little room to accommodate a finger. The Cincinnati spring finger holder permitted the use of a "home made" finger made from a broken hacksaw blade. 20-25 thou thick, if you couldn't accommodate a hacksaw blade in a gullet... there was no gullet to accommodate swarf... I have, though, for reasons I forget, in 1978, made specialized repair reamers for aerospace use, where the tapered lead ran out to a gullet less than zero, where I ground a step parallel to, and behind the reamer gullet, to run my spring finger on, allowing me to sharpen a reamer whose gullet was reduced to nothing when sharpening was completed... It may have been a range of piloted reamers. '78 was a while back... Re the "8.8 thou per inch of cutter diameter per degree of clearance" to metricate that, it's 0.0088 of the cutter diameter per degree of clearance... And... With straight S&F cutters, your system's OK. What do you do with paired and handed S&F cutters? I used to do them on a common mandrel on one set, ensuring they finished the same diameter. with no measurement needed What do you do with staggered tooth cutters? And... On a tilting head T&C grinder, you can set your spring finger to centre height, tilt the grinding spindle. (not as simple as that, but it's bedtime...)
So how do you get it sorted with no finger indexer & you are waiting on that cutter for a job . If you had listened on the video , it was clearly stated that this machine still has to be tooled up . That means tooling that i still have to make as it's unavailable here . And another thing , what's with the smart ass comment about using tables . Does that mean you have never needed to use Machinery's Handbook or other reference sources ??? What do you think , we have every piece of correct tooling at our finger tips in Australia , get real FFS ! Thanks 👍
On TH-cam comments, If I hit the wrong key, I lose my post... Done it three times, I'm a stupid geriatric bastard. But you're incredibly thin skinned for a 'Strine... Basic principles... 8.8 thou drop for one degree of clearance per inch of cutter diameter, (or 0.0088 of diameter for metric) same thing, never step away from the grinder to look at a chart... Simple arithmetic, piece of piss! Isn't it? Call it 9 thou, 0.009 for simpletons... Stay at the machine, make money... Always... grind the tooth that's supported on the "spring finger" NOT ANY OTHER TOOTH. Who knows if the cutter teeth are regularly or irregularly spaced? You think you do? I never did... That bit me on the arse... ONCE! I did, though, fall out big time with a guy over reamer sharpening. their flutes were commonly irregularly spaced... I was proven right, he wrong, but...I did learn something from him, because he enunciated an assumption he'd made about something I was doing... Assumptions, eh? Like assuming tooth spacing's regular?... Last time I worked in a toolroom, we were talking about, but hadn't yet seen... facilities to grind helical tooling with "master helices" and air bearing workheads... Never used either... But even now, geriatric and with poor eyesight, I think I could use both/either... blindfold. Spring finger... An old hacksaw blade... Tooth rest... Something unnecessarily complicated and expensive... Wheel... Something that gets reinvented regularly, by newcomers to the business of wheels... We could talk more. Oddly... since throwing in the "blindfold" remark... I rmembered visiting a toolroom in the UK (1970s) where there was a blind guy running a T&C grinder. Think about it... T&C's formulaic... Don't reinvent it... It was a simple formula. A blind guy could sharpen tooling by feel, and by counting clicks to set his spring finger height, braille mics for diameter... (a bastard for irregular tooth spacing as you "know" ) Putting a radius on a cutter may have been a challenge, blind... I just cannot imagine setting up a radiusing jig blind ( slips with braille markings? GTF!) But! "my" blind guy on a T&C grinder was moving around and working with tremendous confidence. It was fascinating, and unnerving, talking to a guy who couldn't see me, the job he was doing, nor the finished product... but performed well according to his boss. And... weekend overtime, I've modified form relieved cutters to perform a task on my mill, using a Duplex toolpost grinder as a wheelhead, cutte mounted on an arbor between centres in my lathe, a home made spring finger set to height with my height gauge... A quotation I made earlier tonight (over drinks) to someone... "Perfection is not achieved when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to remove" I'll leave that with you. (find the source yourself) It's the KISS principle.
Great instructional video. Now a question? When you started the cutting the secondary clearance angle, did you change the height of the adjustable stop? I can't understand how you you could achieve what you did without changing the height...... but then again there are a lot of things that I don't understand these days. ( I have just acquired an old Clarkson Mk2 T&C grinder and can find very little instructional info on youtube).
Thanks for this video Max, it has arrived at a very appropriate time, having scored 25 plus side and face mills at an auction here in the UK. Some are OK and some need some real work, the majority just a clean up. Even here the home of the Clarkson, they are getting to be like hens teeth, certainly with any attachments and the prices have got a bit silly as people realise what they have. I'll probably use a spindexer setup on the surface grinder with a diamond cup wheel, unless something pops up.
All the diamond wheels i use are 150 grit , works well across the board . Anything that needs a finer finish i use a slow speed grinder with 400 , 1000 & 2000 diamond lap . 👍
Fantastic video, Max, very useful now I’ve a TOS tool & cutter grinder. I managed to get an online copy of the Fitting and Machining book. I note that on page 147 it suggests offsetting the wheel by 1 deg to provide a relief, for grinding angles, silly question but I’m guessing if you dress the wheel you should do that with the wheel square to the table travel first? It only mentions dressing the wheel for grinding square or parallel surfaces earlier. Or am I overthinking as usual? Cheers!
@@swanvalleymachineshop Great, thanks Max, makes sense. So you wouldn’t offset by 1 deg at all? Just square, dress and grind?! I’ve a few different wheels, diamond too, I’m guessing you definitely wouldn’t offset the diamond anyway as the face is so small. Was wondering about the vitrified wheels. Guess I’ll try it and see which gives a better finish. Cheers from Scotland, keep the videos coming, always learning!
@@swanvalleymachineshop Great, thanks Max, makes sense. So you wouldn’t offset by 1 deg at all? Just square, dress and grind?! I’ve a few different wheels, diamond too, I’m guessing you definitely wouldn’t offset the diamond anyway as the face is so small. Was wondering about the vitrified wheels. Guess I’ll try it and see which gives a better finish. Cheers from Scotland, keep the videos coming, always learning!
@@swanvalleymachineshop Aah, ok, now I get it, so it’s to avoid grinding on the other side of the wheel.. thanks! So if you limit your travel to one side of the wheel you can stay square and dress, grind etc.. got it! I’m a bit slow.. cheers!
Max, where could I find a complete set of the "Fitting and Machining" books? My Google-fu is weak and I only found "Fitting and Machining" as a single volume at a few sites in Australia and none in the U.S. (where I live). I'm more than willing to pay shipping for a good set of books!
Not sure . Send me an email , theswanvalleymachineshop@gmail.com & i will have a look from my end . I think they are still available , or an updated version . 👍
Max, please note, the videography is fantastic,
clear and sharp, and up close and personal....
Bravo
Thanks 👍
Max, thanks. A most appreciated video. Information on tool & cutter grinding is like rocking horse poop, and this was very useful to me & I'm sure many others. Thanks again.
No worries 👍
Learning, learning, learning here, Max.
Thank you very much !!
No worries 👍
Great video Max. I really appreciate the tips on what to do and what NOT to do. Camera work was fantastic. Thanks for sharing.
No worries 👍
This is an area of tool & die that I'm weak in , so thank you
No worries 👍
Wow Max, this is a fantastic video on sharpening, I have watched
Grizillions of videos on sharpening, but never one as informative
as this one, thank you so much, Cheers, Paul
Thanks . Their is a lot in the subject with just as many ways to do it . 👍
Well done Max. I so need a T&C grinder. Just the ticket to make proper cutters for oddball stuff us repair guys run into. 👌
A great machine to have . 👍
Top notch grinding, amazingly clear explanations and fantastic camera work. We always appreciate your efforts to teach and demonstrate. Thanks, Max.
No worries 👍
Some impressive free handing there Max on the radius! That's not easy. Used to have a saying here that you could walk into any workshop canteen and point out the tool and cutter grinder by counting fingers and thumbs🤭🏴
Lol , cheers Jon 👍
Far out Max and G'day mate, cracking video and a great explanation too, thanks buddy, another one to save for future reference
Thanks 👍
This was very interesting to me Max as a beginner in the machinist work. Enjoyed watching your process and technique of getting the cutter sharpened for the work. Quite the tool.
Thanks for sharing.
No worries 👍
Nicely done Max, a case of "Not what you've got, but how to use it".
Have a safe Easter weekend
Thanks 👍
G'day, Max. Thanks for showing your cutting angles. Everything worked out well.
Thanks 👍
Always look forward to your content. Cheers from Pooraka in SA.
Thanks 👍
What else could we want __ another great video from Max and a full Easter basket from the wife !! Thanks Max !!
Thanks 👍
Always a pleasure! You are a fine instructure.Thanks!!!
Cheers 👍
Nice one Max hope to see more on your T&C grinder as you get it up together.
Yes , their will be more . Cheers 👍
Ive only been watching Max a few weeks. He is fabulous. Cheers Matey
Thanks 👍
you sir are a true master machinist in America all they want to teach is cnc and none of the basics that are manual machinist its a crap pot and if you are going to be a great machininst you must be able to make anything with manual machines and you sir can make anything in your shop that could be cnc made you and joe pie are my go to references for questions i need answered
Thanks 👍
Great video Grant, almost a "home-grown" cutter grinder. Very nice and simply explained for amateurs like me. enjoyed very much, cheers mate!
Thanks 👍
Very good video Max !
Interesting to see how this is done.. Great camera work and editing 👍👍
Well done, enjoyed,
Cheers....
Thanks Dean 👍
I learned loads of real world practical stuff from that Max. Video quality excellent. I have 3 volumes of old machining manuals a subscriber gave me. Cheers
Thanks Paul . 👍
Gday Max that was really interesting, brilliant job on the radius
Cheers Matty 👍
This was very interesting. I hadn't seen a tool grinding operation before. I also didn't realize that it depends heavily on the cutter having an even number of teeth.
Odd number of teeth are the same , just position the tooth rest to suit . 👍
Great Job . I await the tooling as I just acquired one of the cutter grinders
No worries 👍
I think ANCA makes tool grinders in Australia.🙂 Besides that, I like to see the manual tool grinding. It looks very time consuming. Apreciate the clear explanation as well.
It can be time consuming , but well worth it esp with the cost & availability of cutters Especially if it has to have a custom grind . 👍
Love the old Trade School Books mine sit proudly on the shelf in my workshop and like you I still refer to them. 😊
I still have Dad's machining & welding ones ! 👍
Max thanks for the sharpening lessons as some one else say there are a lot of them out there but i got so much more out of yours than all the others combined on another note you are so right here in the Land of Aus we don't get the chance to get parts or cutters or if you do then they won't so much for them you may as well buy new ones if you can get them at all tooling for machines just don't exist at all big Cheers Max thanks once again for n excellent video
No worries 👍
I once needed a couple carbide endmills with a nonstandard corner radius. Before going to my EM grinder for a price, I did a deep internet search and found a company that provided EMs with whatever radius you wanted at very little over stock price. When I got them I was shocked to see the radius and reliefs hand ground. But after microscope inspection of the tool and then part inspection, they provided the radius I needed
Hand grinding works well for small rad's . 👍
Another excellent video, thanks once again for sharing your knowledge and experience
No worries 👍
Thanks for the memories, the horror of working many months in the TSA dept at GMH Fishermensbend as Apprentice F & T. Nice result Max.
No worries . Lol , the good old apprenticeship days ! 👍
Great job, beautiful work and thanks for sharing, Max!:)
Greetings from Germany, Cheers and have a good one. Subscribed!
Thanks 👍
Takes me back Max, I was put on the CG doing the diameter of end mill od's as a lad, took to it very well (too well) as I was then given boxes and boxes of the ####ing things lol
I know the feeling as an apprentice.
Lol ! 👍
The cutter worked well, Max. I've first hand experience of one of those cup wheels exploding with that set up, many moons ago while at college, lol. Everybody dived on the floor, lol. Thanks for reminding me. Cheers Tony
Thanks Tony 👍
Very nice work sir
No worries 👍
Thanks for that Max, need to get to grips with my own T&CG .. :)
No worries . 👍
Waiting for the right one or even getting tooling into Oz is terrible. I just scored a 6" adjustable Sine tooling plate out of the USA in decent condition. Freight was only a third mortgage on my remaining kidney 🤦♂Overall I think it was still a win 🤣
Gone are the days when we were dollar for dollar with USA & freight was bugger all !👍
Hi Max, this video takes me back. We used to have two tool and cutter grinders in the toolroom, one like yours and a Cincinnati that you could dial in helixes which was great for end mills.
Cheers . 👍
G'day, Max. As you already know, I've just watched part one in the Bridgeport challenge. That's because I left you a comment. 😂
We've just watched how the cutting wheel you sharpened with the grinder works, but I hope you have part two of the Bridgeport job ready to upload soon.
Cheers, cobber. 👍⚒️🏴
It will be out this weekend. Cheers 👍
good info and learning about tool & cutter grinding, thanks max !
cheers ben.
No worries 👍
I was wondering with what kind of alien technology you would come up with to grind the radius...
And then you do it by hand. That's brilliant.
Lol , aliens are too scary !!! 👍
I have used cheap and cheerful Chinese resin bond diamond wheels as well.Great for a finer finish.
I have also had to not only dress the wheels true but sometimes turn the bodies to true the face.Not hard to do but amusing that people can make wheels so out of whack and still sell them.Same with slitting saws when the bore is not in the centre of the saw.
Keep up the good work Max.
Thanks . I have just ordered some more cheap & cheerful ones ! Hopefully they run true !!! Cheers 👍
Thankyou Sir, Would like to see more of your machines and how you use them, appreciate your instructions and the explanations why it is done that way.
Thank you for helping me improve my backyard butchering, from Gold Coast Qld.
No worries 👍
Great video Max. Really enjoying your content. Thank you from Amsterdam 👍🇳🇱
No worries 👍
Brilliant, just the inspiration I need. Thank you so much for your effort making the video.
No worries 👍
Good video friend max..thanks for your time
Cheers 👍
Thanks for the show Max 🍻 🇦🇺
No worries 👍
Ciao Max, un saluto da Roma, Italy
Thanks . I have 2 machines from Italy ! 👍
Thanks for the video mate. Have a good one 👍🇦🇺
Cheers 👍
Thanks for sharing and Happy Easter to you and your family 😊
Cheers 👍
Very interesting tutorial on T&C grinding, Nice work, Max.
Thanks 👍
Hi Max, gettig things here in Philippines is challenging compared to Australia.
The only place i can get silver steel ground bar is through Radio Spares PH and takes more than 2 weeks ex UK and not cheap.
For alloy steel and non ferrous materials have to go to china town Manila, full day trip.
Most of the US tooling is worn out or scrapped, the Americans were here from the turn of last century and left in the early sixties.
I picked up an assortment of silver steel on e bay a couple of years ago , have not used it yet so hopefully it is what it is supposed to be ! 👍
Good show Max enjoyed it😀
Thanks 👍
Very interesting. Thanks, Max.
Cheers Rob . 👍
I've noticed that saw arbors are often a little wonky. They tend to cut more on one side than the other when sawing in the Bridgeport. It doesn't affect the cutting but the lack of concentricity is noticeable. K O Lee expanding mandrels are terrifyingly expensive, though.
Yes , they often have a bit of a wonky cutting motion . They need to be sharpened on a dead true arbor & mounted on a dead true machine spindle . 👍
I certainly enjoy watching your channel. good work.
Thanks 👍
Thx for the vid.
No worries 👍
I appreciate your teachings. Will use your techniques. Thanks Much. Have a great Easter !!
Thanks 👍
Max, you are certainly a clever man, would I be out of place suggesting placing the Radios Gauge from Trevor on top of the tooth and blueing the pattern as a guide prior to cutting them out that way makes life easy and less stress. TOP man more videos please.
For a larger radius i might . Cheers 👍
Thank you Max!
No worries 👍
Hello Max, Greetings from Florida, USA.....Paul, have a wonderful Easter Weekend....
watch out for sneaky rabbits....
Lol , we have rabbit holes that i could fit into in one of the back paddocks ! 👍
Thoroughly enjoyed this....amazing what an 'old timer' can do by eye
when making those radius cuts.....before seeing this video, I would
have assumed you needed some Fancy Schmantzy Gizmo to do that....
Best Wishes again, Paul in the other 'Sunshine State', Florida
No worries , Cheers 👍
" ..amazing what an 'old timer' can do " - wait till you meet Max in person, you will be even more amazed. lol
@@GraemeStephens I sure would love to meet him.....he seems like a very wonderful person......cheers from an old guy in Florida, US....Paul
Cutter grinding is fascinating stuff. 👍
Yes . Some great set up's involved . 👍
Very good and informative channel. Stuff you can use in your own home shop. thx
Cheers 👍
The correct way to sharpen a cutter is to have the tooth being sharpened supported by the tooth rest which resists the force of the wheel. The method shown has the potential for the cutter to rotate thus causing a 'stack' in the old parlance.
Didn't you watch the video the whole way through. Max said what you said and warned about the consequences. Max also said that with experience a person can avoid such catastrophes.
You missed the boat there Martin , there was a full explanation . That method is also in the text books . 👍
My suggestion just last night actually made the very next video? Unheard of! Never Ever in my Tube History has someone done something that I jokingly suggested the very next day (same day because of the magic line that delineates when it is) ! I am ecstatic!!😊. Max- You just made my existence worth while 😂. Always enjoy your sharing your considerable skills with a mere mortal being 😊. Good on ya Mate 😎
Or is it just a coincidence that great minds think alike, and you haven’t even seen last nights response? 😮 😢
Damn Max, I watched your guard video beginning to look end, then you post this one with zero guard! This is fascinating to me because I have always wondered how resharpening was done, and here I am at 72 being trained by an Aussie on an electric book! This is a crazy thing that we were introduced to, and I am addicted to it as much as the library when I was a kid. Thanks for sharing!
Hey , i saw your comment on my phone . We lost internet for nearly a week , so not sure what happened . Looks like your wish came true !!! 👍
👍 👏 🍺
Hi Max great video thanks. When you showed the method of grinding the secondary relief am I correct in thinking the cutter should use the same wheel side as you used in the primary cut. The other side will still jam the wheel, thanks Terry.
Same wheel side , only because the set up is already in place . 👍
Great discussion/information/lesson
Thanks Chuck 👍
Another fascinating one Max.
You know Leitz tooling in Malaga have CNC carbide sharpeners that can do all your sharpening if / when needed, if there’s anything you aren’t able to do it with what tooling you have on hand.
Cheers Ian . 👍
Excellent videos, amazing engineer, Australia's Keith Fenner
Lol , have not seen anything from Keith in a while . Cheers 👍
@@swanvalleymachineshopHe is too busy with his new girlfriend
my Dawson grinder does not tilt either, However there is a flat back side with a threaded hole, and I made a plate to mount my Themac7 on it, giving me a full tilt either way, as well as rotate and elevate. I have like 5 of those finger deals, 3 are micrometer adjustable. I need to lay it all out and figure out how it all works, I have 4 tubs of tools and hardware, and probably 200 wheels mostly brand new. I have a small machinist vice mounted on a compound angle stand, which is what I use most. 6 yrs, and haven't sharpened a machine tool yet. The CAD boys make this stuff obsolete, so I get it for a song. sometimes I am the only bidder.
Lol , i have had that machine about 8 years now . One would have thought i would have had it tooled up by now ! 👍
get me your address sometime@@swanvalleymachineshop
Expertly done and explained Max, in the 70's I used to build the Jones and Shipman 310 machine, being a fitter I'm not sure how a machinist would rate them, we certainly sold quite a few, did any make their way to your neck of the woods?
Thanks . There were a lot of J & S machines here , of various types . 👍
WOW
Cheers 👍
Well done on a difficult job. BC
Thanks Bernie . Will be over your side of the country later in the year . I will catch up with a few people there . 👍
Useful video. Yeah, T & C grinders come up here in Aus, but very rarely with any tooling! I've managed to get some stuff over the years (mostly from the US when shipping was realistic and our dollar was worth something) but do you think I can get a tailstock center that's the correct height for mine! (Cincinnati #2) Cheers (finally subscribed)
Thanks . Look up tool & cutter grinders , their are a couple on ebay . 👍
Interesting video. Prefer not to hang on to cutter. Relying on thumb is not text book. But a time saving devise. The art of Fitting & Machining is an encylopedia of information. . Found myself revisiting mechanical processes. That require some safe thought.
Cheers , depends on what attachments you have available to do the indexing . 👍
"Needs must":) just note if teeth are not indexed properly that setup will generate runout
You have to rely on the indexing from the previous sharpening , it will mirror that . Cheers 👍
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Thanks 👍👍👍
Max, I enjoy your videos very much and learned a few things. I’m a tool maker in Southern California and I do a lot of odd and repairs and one off parts. I’m curious to know what you charge per hour on a custom one off part. You can tell me in dollars or euros lol. Sometimes I think I’m not charging enough. subscribed, C&B Tools in California.
Custom one off parts , i generally give a quoted approximate fixed price & stick to it .My hourly rates , i do not discuss on social media for various reasons , if you have to pay rent , machine & wage payments etc etc . As there would be quite a variation shop to shop and also internationally . All that you have to remember , custom stuff takes alot more hours including lost hours than small batch production parts but over time the costing margin hopefully balances out . At the end of the day , stick to you quoted & get the job done correctly no matter what . You will soon work out what your hourly rate needs to be . 120 to 140 is pretty common here . Cheers 👍
Did tool and cutter grinding for 31 years
Nice one . I am still setting my one up . I have to make a lot of the tooling as it is unavailable here , hence some of my unorthodox methods ! Cheers 👍
Thanks for showing this set up.
Could you let me know what settings you changed for the secondary clearance angle, I couldn’t see any change in the wheel height or the tooth stop.
Could you also tell where you source that type of diamond wheel, the only ones I’ve come across are resin bound
Would love to see more of these tool grinding setups
Raised the tooth rest about 7 - 8 mm for the secondary . The wheel is a cheap 150 grade diamond wheel from China , they work quite well . 👍
Wow on rounding those teeth.
No worries 👍
I want to learn everything about using my machine, i have a Dawson which became Royal Oak. I use it for basics now
No worries . Have a look at Don Dyers channel as well , he does a fair bit on his cutter grinder . 👍
Been on it, great channel. I absorb all this stuff. @@swanvalleymachineshop
Hi Max, Are you using the Anchor lube? I was wondering how the Anchor lube was working for you?
I have a small sample bottle & am very impressed . I love how it does not make a huge mess . 👍
Just looked at the first few minutes. I did this fifty years ago, was taught by an old guy, Tom Costello... Charts for cutting clearance? All you need to know for normal T&C grinding is that to achieve 1 degree clearance you drop your stop/spring finger 8.8 thou per inch of cutter diameter. Sin 1 degree is 0.017455, half of that, since you're calculating the angle on the basis of the cutter radius is 0.0088, as near as dammit. Anyone prepared to argue? Tables? Pffft!
Now, the other thing is... The tooth you're sharpening is the tooth that should be supported. Not any other tooth, in the hope that division in manufacture was precise... It may not have been...
Now, that may give rise to issues... Such as when gullets are shallow, with little room to accommodate a finger. The Cincinnati spring finger holder permitted the use of a "home made" finger made from a broken hacksaw blade. 20-25 thou thick, if you couldn't accommodate a hacksaw blade in a gullet... there was no gullet to accommodate swarf...
I have, though, for reasons I forget, in 1978, made specialized repair reamers for aerospace use, where the tapered lead ran out to a gullet less than zero, where I ground a step parallel to, and behind the reamer gullet, to run my spring finger on, allowing me to sharpen a reamer whose gullet was reduced to nothing when sharpening was completed... It may have been a range of piloted reamers. '78 was a while back...
Re the "8.8 thou per inch of cutter diameter per degree of clearance" to metricate that, it's 0.0088 of the cutter diameter per degree of clearance...
And... With straight S&F cutters, your system's OK. What do you do with paired and handed S&F cutters? I used to do them on a common mandrel on one set, ensuring they finished the same diameter. with no measurement needed What do you do with staggered tooth cutters?
And... On a tilting head T&C grinder, you can set your spring finger to centre height, tilt the grinding spindle. (not as simple as that, but it's bedtime...)
So how do you get it sorted with no finger indexer
& you are waiting on that cutter for a job . If you had listened on the video , it was clearly stated that this machine still has to be tooled up . That means tooling that i still have to make as it's unavailable here .
And another thing , what's with the smart ass comment about using tables . Does that mean you have never needed to use Machinery's Handbook or other reference sources ??? What do you think , we have every piece of correct tooling at our finger tips in Australia , get real FFS ! Thanks 👍
On TH-cam comments, If I hit the wrong key, I lose my post... Done it three times, I'm a stupid geriatric bastard. But you're incredibly thin skinned for a 'Strine...
Basic principles... 8.8 thou drop for one degree of clearance per inch of cutter diameter, (or 0.0088 of diameter for metric) same thing, never step away from the grinder to look at a chart... Simple arithmetic, piece of piss! Isn't it? Call it 9 thou, 0.009 for simpletons... Stay at the machine, make money...
Always... grind the tooth that's supported on the "spring finger" NOT ANY OTHER TOOTH. Who knows if the cutter teeth are regularly or irregularly spaced? You think you do? I never did... That bit me on the arse... ONCE! I did, though, fall out big time with a guy over reamer sharpening. their flutes were commonly irregularly spaced... I was proven right, he wrong, but...I did learn something from him, because he enunciated an assumption he'd made about something I was doing... Assumptions, eh? Like assuming tooth spacing's regular?...
Last time I worked in a toolroom, we were talking about, but hadn't yet seen... facilities to grind helical tooling with "master helices" and air bearing workheads... Never used either... But even now, geriatric and with poor eyesight, I think I could use both/either... blindfold. Spring finger... An old hacksaw blade... Tooth rest... Something unnecessarily complicated and expensive... Wheel... Something that gets reinvented regularly, by newcomers to the business of wheels...
We could talk more. Oddly... since throwing in the "blindfold" remark... I rmembered visiting a toolroom in the UK (1970s) where there was a blind guy running a T&C grinder. Think about it... T&C's formulaic... Don't reinvent it... It was a simple formula. A blind guy could sharpen tooling by feel, and by counting clicks to set his spring finger height, braille mics for diameter... (a bastard for irregular tooth spacing as you "know" ) Putting a radius on a cutter may have been a challenge, blind... I just cannot imagine setting up a radiusing jig blind ( slips with braille markings? GTF!) But! "my" blind guy on a T&C grinder was moving around and working with tremendous confidence. It was fascinating, and unnerving, talking to a guy who couldn't see me, the job he was doing, nor the finished product... but performed well according to his boss.
And... weekend overtime, I've modified form relieved cutters to perform a task on my mill, using a Duplex toolpost grinder as a wheelhead, cutte mounted on an arbor between centres in my lathe, a home made spring finger set to height with my height gauge...
A quotation I made earlier tonight (over drinks) to someone... "Perfection is not achieved when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to remove" I'll leave that with you. (find the source yourself) It's the KISS principle.
yes I know!
Cheers 👍
Great instructional video. Now a question? When you started the cutting the secondary clearance angle, did you change the height of the adjustable stop? I can't understand how you you could achieve what you did without changing the height...... but then again there are a lot of things that I don't understand these days. ( I have just acquired an old Clarkson Mk2 T&C grinder and can find very little instructional info on youtube).
Yes . Raised it about 7mm . 👍
Thanks Max for the sanity check!
Thanks for this video Max, it has arrived at a very appropriate time, having scored 25 plus side and face mills at an auction here in the UK. Some are OK and some need some real work, the majority just a clean up. Even here the home of the Clarkson, they are getting to be like hens teeth, certainly with any attachments and the prices have got a bit silly as people realise what they have. I'll probably use a spindexer setup on the surface grinder with a diamond cup wheel, unless something pops up.
I will have to make my attachments as i need them . I do have one good L.A Rocheleau attachment that will cover alot of stuff . 👍
You can use a normal grinding wheel, just be aware of the breakdown of the wheel ,you may need to go around a couple of times sparking out.
Hi Max, Looks like a diamond wheel on the grinder. Do you know what grit it is? Thanks.
All the diamond wheels i use are 150 grit , works well across the board . Anything that needs a finer finish i use a slow speed grinder with 400 , 1000 & 2000 diamond lap . 👍
@@swanvalleymachineshop thank you sir!
Fantastic video, Max, very useful now I’ve a TOS tool & cutter grinder. I managed to get an online copy of the Fitting and Machining book. I note that on page 147 it suggests offsetting the wheel by 1 deg to provide a relief, for grinding angles, silly question but I’m guessing if you dress the wheel you should do that with the wheel square to the table travel first? It only mentions dressing the wheel for grinding square or parallel surfaces earlier. Or am I overthinking as usual? Cheers!
I always start off with everything square to the wheel , you know where you are then . 👍
@@swanvalleymachineshop Great, thanks Max, makes sense. So you wouldn’t offset by 1 deg at all? Just square, dress and grind?! I’ve a few different wheels, diamond too, I’m guessing you definitely wouldn’t offset the diamond anyway as the face is so small. Was wondering about the vitrified wheels. Guess I’ll try it and see which gives a better finish. Cheers from Scotland, keep the videos coming, always learning!
@@swanvalleymachineshop Great, thanks Max, makes sense. So you wouldn’t offset by 1 deg at all? Just square, dress and grind?! I’ve a few different wheels, diamond too, I’m guessing you definitely wouldn’t offset the diamond anyway as the face is so small. Was wondering about the vitrified wheels. Guess I’ll try it and see which gives a better finish. Cheers from Scotland, keep the videos coming, always learning!
@@Deebo1812 i only use one half of a cup wheel , so the off set does not do anything unless you are traversing across the whole width of the cup .
@@swanvalleymachineshop Aah, ok, now I get it, so it’s to avoid grinding on the other side of the wheel.. thanks! So if you limit your travel to one side of the wheel you can stay square and dress, grind etc.. got it! I’m a bit slow.. cheers!
Max, where could I find a complete set of the "Fitting and Machining" books? My Google-fu is weak and I only found "Fitting and Machining" as a single volume at a few sites in Australia and none in the U.S. (where I live). I'm more than willing to pay shipping for a good set of books!
Not sure . Send me an email , theswanvalleymachineshop@gmail.com & i will have a look from my end . I think they are still available , or an updated version . 👍
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Cheers 👍👍👍
What grade is the wheel please
150 . Just a cheapie from China . They work well . 👍
Thanks max
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Thanks 👍👍👍