Repair a BROWN & SHARPE Caliper TIPS
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2024
- My newly acquired B & S dial caliper needed some repair.
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MrPete, part of the charm and delight of watching your videos are the ‘distractions’ and side-trips you take. Keep ‘em coming.
I agree❤️👍🏻
@@priority2 more agreement - i tend to follow Mr. Pete right down to the bottom of every rabbit hole.
I inherited a vintage, German made Helios brand caliper from my Grandfather. He was a tool and die maker, machinist and mechanical engineering technician. The Helios I have looks practically identical to your Brown and Sharp, except the bezel is not attached with tiny watch maker type screws and agree that its obvious Helios made calipers for Brown and Sharp. Watching your video a few times gave me the knowledge and confidence to take my vintage Helios apart for thorough cleaning and put it back together without breaking it. Thanks. One of the things I learned by taking mine apart is that the dial with the markings on it is a piece of round brass. With white paint on one side. I had assumed it was some kind of paper or cardboard that was painted. But it is quite sturdy feeling and looking and pure brass.
Yes, I think that brand of calipers is excellent
I just watched this video, probably for the second or third time. Good stuff in it. Thanks.
It reminds me of my second caliper, an Enco 8" dial model. It was all I could afford at the time but I had a Helios 6" Vernier for many years at that point so I took a chance with the purchase. When it arrived, it was awful. I didn't have any Jo blocks at that time, but I didn't need any to tell me just how bad it was. It jumped all over the place. When I took out my pocket magnifier (a Hastings 10X triplet) and examined the rack, it was a trash dump. There was all manner of foreign matter wedged between the teeth.
I went through several cycles of cleaning and inspection with the magnifier and test uses. I used a toothbrush first. I soaked it in WD and the toothbrush again. That improved it a lot. But there were still some major jumps at places. I looked and saw actual chips wedged between the teeth so I had to use a pick to remove them, one by one. And there were a bunch of them, not just one or two. This was around 15 to 20 years ago and I guess the Chinese shops were worse then. I did finally get it to a usable condition, but only after hours of cleaning and inspection.
I describe this for two reasons. So that the others who see this video will know that not all problems with dial calipers are fixed as easily as you show. And second, to let them know that they usually are repairable if you spend enough time.
Anyway, great video.
Once again you reeled me into a being marathon of Mr. Pete vidyas; and I follow you right down every rabbit hole. The comment about the girls is so true. Females are more precise than most males; they are better welders too. Experienced comments.
Yes
I'm sure you will get lots of suggestions about cataract surgery, so here is one more. About twenty years ago, I underwent the surgery, and the first thing I noticed is, that everything is not hazy yellow in color. I have not worn glasses since other that reading glasses when doing up close work. My wife wore coke bottle bottoms for glasses, both reading and regular . After her surgery I saw her putting on her glasses to read something in the newspaper. I asked her to try reading without the glasses, and much to her surprise, she too no longer needed glasses. When she went to renew her drivers license, the clerk asked why she wasn't wearing her glasses, because on her license it stated she wore glasses. I tried to explain to the clerk, that my wife recently had eye surgery. The clerk snapped at me, that I was not the one taking the test, and to have a seat. My wife was finally able to explain to another clerk and got her new license. Yeah I know, pretty long drawn out comment, but it sure worked for us. But wait there's more, after watching a Keith Rucker's video on caliper adjustment like your's, I immediately broke out those offending calipers and spent the next couple of hours putting them back together, but they worked. ....Ken , the 80 year old grumpy guy in Marina CA.
Hey Lyle, back in the 70s I repaired all types of precision measurement tools. The best way to get those calipers clean is a complete teardown, brushing the rack clean, and using a sharp pick for pieces that won't come out, and reset proper zero position while putting the rack retaining screws in.
Thanks
Any advice on saving a set of caliper jaws that dropped onto a had surface bending the tips of the outside diameters jaws inward?
Nothing is as beautiful as a Starrett box. Just seeing one increases my pulse rate by 10 beats per minute ❤
👍👍👍
I haven't worked outside of Mitotoyo and Fowler, yet. But I'm seeing more Starretts around, lately.
The Brown & Sharpe boxes do it for me. The orange and black, with those mid-century angles? Perfect!
You can often safely pull those watch and small clock hands using
A) Something to protect the face of the instrument (you your own discretion)
B) Two screwdrivers that fit between the face and the hands.
Bringing the screwdrivers in from opposite side to the arbor and underneath the hands twist them in opposite directions so that they lift equally from both sides at once.
This has always worked very well for me.
I was real happy to find this as I have a Starrett that needs a touch of work.
Coming from Norway, I felt so proud when you said your father spoke Norwegian
I thought most of them could be adjusted with a small key that lifts the pinion off the rack and jump one tooth at a time. I had received the key when I bought one of mine, and it worked on all of the ones that I had.
Mr. Pete. It's the chips getting into the rack gear teeth that cause the pinion gear to jump out of position. I also noted your hands, they look dry. You need to get a box of exam gloves to prevent hand contact with harsh chemicals that dry out your skin. I also favor denatured alcohol when cleaning measuring Gage's . Interesting video but I have ascended into digital display Gage's. Like the Starrett box better as they a deeper selection of traditional hand tools & Gage's, but Mitutoyo now owns the electronic hand gaging market place. Thank You for another excellent video. Bill B
Thumbs up again for another great video. I use dial calipers up to 12 inches and have always been amazed at the extreme accuracy of the racks and pinions necessary to prevent accumulated error over long distances. Dials are very popular and easy to use but vernier calipers inherently simpler and easier to maintain with no racks and pinions to get clogged or dials discolored and scratched. Shorter vernier models are difficult to read in dim light which is probably why dials have largely replaced them
You sure did that the hard way! My Mitutoyo dial caliper came with a "tool" that you slip along the rack that allows you to lift the rack to make it jump a tooth. The pinion is mounted on a flexure to permit this to happen without damage, which is how it gets out of zero up in the first place. The tool is just a piece of shim or spring steel with a bump on the end. It works well and take just seconds.
Awesome!
I love this man. I am a beginning machinist and am collecting used tools to repair and now I have a better idea with your video. Thank you!
👍👍
Lyle, on the subject of cataracts, my wife had her eyes done. Extra was paid for special implantable lenses that corrected the astigmatisms, which have plagued her over the years. Her vision now is better than ever. Don't be afraid. Find a capable surgeon and have at it.
BTW, I plan on getting my eyes done, when my night vision falls below an acceptable level.
Eli D.
I would say I like them both best :-) No matter how hard I try I find it hard to choose what box style I like best. They both create a smile on my face when I see them. They both also have a style that I like about the same. Thanks for the video and thumbs up to you Mrpete
OK, second comment. I mentioned cleaning my Enco brand dial calipers already. What I didn't mention in that comment is that some time after that I dropped them. And their needle now points around 0.008" away from the top when the jaws are closed. They function OK, but it is irritating for the zero to be at that odd angle. This was a big reason why I purchased my first digital caliper and several more after that.
The Enco calipers use 40 teeth per inch on the rack so if mine had just jumped one tooth, it would be off by 0.025", not around 0.008" Just realigning the pinion to the rack would not fix this. I had hoped your video would address such a problem but I guess I can't have it all.
I have enough digital calipers so that I will never need to use a dial caliper again. But I would like to have at least one because you can read between the lines on the dial. So perhaps I will try to disassemble my Enco caliper one day. And perhaps even make a video of that.
Thanks Again!
Always happy to see either box , not common around here 😎👍
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I love the Starrett boxes I have kept the first ones I bought for 50 years, I can spot them very easily at garage sales.
you touched on a good point ,,, that even high quality tools need maintenance from time to time,, or they will duplicate crappy work results , i do mostly wood working, with some metal ,,, but the one thing i have learned is that no mater how good a tool should be, it's results are only as good as the maintenance you keep them in ,, and the operator using them , and not to blame crappy work on the cutter sharpness, even a new cutter in a poorly maintained tool will result in a crappy result , tks for sharing ,,,
Thank you for showing me how to reinstall the gib. It popped out while cleaning and I was having a terrible time trying to figure out where it came from. You are awesome! I enjoy all your videos, regardless of content. Thank you Sir.
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Bezel ring and Crystal. I make both, but as repair parts for specialized mics.
This video made me find my Helios caliper. Mine much more meat in the critical areas, more precision I guess. It has longer jaws with the long jaw having Inside measurement area ground on the tip. Year of mfg, unknown, but 1950's, 60's may be good guess. It came with my shop. Shop bought, not so long ago.
I always thought the pinion was spring loaded on a dial caliper, and so, when it jumps over chips that are on the rack, it would not hurt it. Even though I repair micrometers (specialized ones) I do not think I ever broke down a 6" caliper. Looking at this video, when you show the back side of the top, that sure looks like a straight (leaf) spring that the pinion is on.
I never cared where the zero was, when it would jump, I would just bring out the air gun and penetrating oil, and blast the rack clean.
I hope you get to it first, take apart a scrap caliper (or a good one) and see if the pinion is spring loaded. Based on comments below, people using some shim to change the reading, that seems to Indicate that it may be spring loaded.
OOh, I can not recall ever checking a caliper with gauge blocks, but certainly have checked lots of micrometers. Kinda tempting to check that Helios caliper I brought out, I bet it has a good change of being noticeably more accurate than most new calipers. But, by never checking a caliper before, I do not have any qualified reference. I do have several close to new and a new caliper to compare to, but those are not anything like the Helios, as far as looking quality.
EDIT: Ok boys and girls, I just pulled the head off my crappiest 6" caliper, the rack is toothed to the end. But, I reached inside the head with a wire, and Yes, the pinion is spring loaded in this one. And so, keep using them shims to reset to zero, No Fear.
yes--it is backed by a little leaf spring
I have watched your videos, all of your videos, and think they are the best.
As far as the words of wisdom, I like them and would not have any other way.
I also like the starrett, and thanks for all your vids.
I hope all who comment have remembered to give a thumbs up!
Perhaps some day our paths will cross. I have always tinkered with all things machine. I live up near Chicago and recognize many places you have shown on your videos. Happy Turkey Day to you and yours. Mel
+Mel Wilson yes, you are within 100 miles of my place
That's quite an intricate instrument. Never knew there were that many small parts in a caliper. Thanks for showing us this repair!
+davida1hiwaaynet very intricate
well im impressed Mr pete. I dont tell most people this, but I trained as an industrial instrument fitter/ watchmaker, and thats still my day job. I have staff that wouldnt attempt that job. well done!
Emmas Spareroom Machineshop Well said Emma, I was cringing at the thought of the carnage I would cause if I attempted that and my eyes and hands are a bit newer than Mr Pete's (A little bit anyway).
+Emmas Spareroom Machineshop that caliper repair required eyesight better than mine.
If I must choose between the Starrett and Brown &Sharpe boxes, I favor the red box! Another great video; thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience!
Outstanding! I own an import 8" caliper that I purchased back in 1993 from Grizzly Industrial. It has been a very reliable tool but mine too has jumped time and no longer zeros out at the 12 O'clock position. I was just using it the other day and thinking I needed to fix it. I know how, I just have not bothered to take the time. I know what you mean about loosing those tiny screws. What a pain! When I was teaching metal shop I only purchased cheep import calipers for the kids to use as the expensive ones would not survive drops from a machine any better than the cheep ones would. I had a drawer full of the ones that were no longer functional that I kept for screws and other parts that frequently would go missing from the tools.
Anyway I think you have inspired me to get off my but and get to work on mine. Should not take very long.
All the best!
Mike
Excellent video. I enjoy watching them all.
The easy way to adjust to twelve o'clock is to take the pointer off the spindle by inserting a small screwdriver under each side 180 degrees apart and twisting each screwdriver clockwise. The pointer will just pop off without bending the arbour. All you have to do then is push it back on in the correct position.
While this seems like a great idea, my experience working with clocks tells me NO, Don't do it. I have repaired lots of time pieces damaged by this method. You need the proper hand puller in order not to bend the hand or the arbor.
Lyle, At the moment there are 260 comments and I haven't even tried to read through them yet, so someone else may have already commented about the corroded stainless steel. My 2¢ about the corrosion is that my Metallurgy Professor told us that stainless steel simply _stains_ _less_ than "regular" carbon steel, but it will stain and corrode too, sometimes even showing "red rust"! And thank you for your great videos -- I don't feel that you talk too much because most of what you say is very useful, especially to beginners.
Thanks, that's good information
design of that dial caliper is very simplistic .. the newer ones have alot of gears inside :)
I'm giving it a thumbs up, and using the monitor to help to magnify, I do the same thing when I'm looking for my money.
I think you nailed it Mr Pete
Brown and Sharpe box. Hands down.
Like the starrett boxes and tools better,but both b & s and starrett are top of the line in quality,love your utube sessions
Thank you for watching
Yes I remember watching a documentary on uranium, all those poor women that were painting the dials with radioactive luminescent paint, they would lick the tip of the brush to get a fine point. The massive deforming mouth cancers were horrendous. For those that are interested, the doco is called Uranium, twisting the dragons tail. It's a three part series, broken down into laymens terms. It's very interesting.
I remember watching a documentary here on TH-cam, about those poor girls suffering and expiring as a result of the luminous paint used in clock dials. It was an EXTREMELY sad story. It has stuck with me and I cannot look at a click dial without thinking of that story
Starrett every time. I love every Starrett tool. Recently purchased an old wooden and glass Starrett tool display cabinet. Beautiful!
+Darren Martin yes, I love those starrett tools
I too like those old brown and Sharp boxes.
Mr pete, Your sidetracks are both educational and entertaining. Please keep them in your A+ videos.
+Todd Anonymous thank you
you did well... got dial and bezel correct..improvement over last time ....the clear piece in the bezel is called a crystal no matter what material ....and would be called a glass in a clock but that would be much larger perhaps 3'' dia.
Not necessary to disassemble the caliper! Read on: Mitutoyo calipers used to come with a little tool made of phosphor bronze that you could slip behind the dial and between the rack and pinion. It’s not too difficult to rezero the mechanism with such a tool. You can also use a length of small gauge copper wire to do the same, but you have to feel around to get the wire tip to trip the engagement of the pinion with the rack. The pinion bushing has some compliance that prevents damage from clogged rack teeth. This also allows you to slide the carriage off the caliper rail, though I don’t recommend it. In any case, you don’t have to disassemble the calipers. It’s always a good idea to clean the rack and to keep chips out of it. I was taught many years ago to always put my calipers face down on the bench top, so that chips were less likely to get in the rack. I prefer B&S boxes.
I was going to tell him the same thing.
That is one fix but does not address all the years of grunge on them... ;o)
O,,,
Eh, it's worth disassembling any pair you buy, recently i bought a regular pair (no fancy doodads on it) that was slightly off. Initially i thought it was the copper washer that had been worn down, it never had one and the screws were riding on the surface directly. And because it was quite caked in grime, it wasn't easy to notice either even after a few good washes with diluted gas.
If you want to clean all the years of grunge then by all means take it apart and clean it. It can be cleaned without disassembly but each to his own. You don't need to take it apart to adjust the dial however.
I agree. However, none of my calipers are as dirty as MrPete's, and I can keep them clean with a little isopropyl alcohol and a soft brush... without disassembly. Meanwhile, I have seen nearly new calipers with dial offset problems, because it's so easy to get chips in the rack. The softer chips, like Al, plastic and brass, tend to get embedded in the fine pitch rack, and you may have to pick them out with a sharp tool. So, best to keep them clean, and to inspect and clean the rack frequently.
Best video I’ve seen in awhile. Thanks
Thanks
Rack type dial calipers often came with a tool made from brass shim stock to re-center the dial needle. What it did was make the pinon jump a tooth on the rack.
I have a German made caliper from the 60's that has two needles like a wrist watch so that you read the measured dimension entirely off the dial. It cost me almost a week's pay as I recall.
No matter if mechanical or electronic, calipers are often called "estimators" and shouldn't be used for a critical measurement closer than +/-0.005" ... Sometimes though they are the only measurement tool that will physically get to the surfaces you need to measure. Then I do what Mr. Pete did when he checked his calipers.. use gage blocks or something of known sized to check the calipers at or near the required dimension and then essentially use the caliper as a comparetor. Doing that allows you, with care, to accurately measure within +/-0.001 .
Nobody in their right mind expects to use a dial or any other form of caliper even a vernier one for critical measurements but they are indispensable for quick work on the go.
I watch your videos FOR the side track moments Mr. Pete!
Great work, Mr. Pete!
Good work and very educational. Don't you hate it when you get a used Stainless Steel tool with rust pitting! Keep 'em coming.
Gotta love the starrett box. 👍
Great video Mr. Pete, I agree that having the dial off to the side would bug the heck out of me too. Looks much better 12 o'clock oriented.
Mighty considerate of you to use Mrs. Pete's toothbrush to clean the parts before applying the oil, machine oil has a nasty after-taste.
I vote for the Brown and Sharp box, much more eye appealing.
You can not make your videos too long for myself enjoy them ever so much
Hi
I am 70 and very happy to have had a cataract correction for my eyes.
You should consider having it done.
I was concerned and only had one done, just in case.
Thanks for the vids.
+Dennis Williams yes, one at a time
It was good to see you doing what I used to do in a QA Lab here in Amarillo, TX. I used Simple Green for cleaner for most tools. Really enjoyed your vid. Have a Happy Holiday. Chuck B.
+chuck barth thanks for watching
Thank-you Sir for going into this deeper then desired as we all learned more from the experience. Always a fan of seeing the nitty gritty of a tool. Keep on :)
Thank you, just fixed an old Helios. The last time it was calibrated was 1987.
Thanks for all of your efforts teaching us mrpete. As I have just started machining, when asked how I know how to do some of the operations I respond by saying "mrpete taught me!" At any rate, I just got an older Mitutoyo caliper from feebay that still had the maintenance book with it. It showed that to change the "home position" of the dial/hand, one would open the caliper to about 2 inches and slip a small feeler gauge between the pinion and rack and position the dial by sliding. Would not be as accurate as your way and can't clean it in the method, but wanted to pass that along.
+Eric Schneider thanks, I just fix the other caliper by that method, it worked fine
That's a nice looking caliper and accurate enough for what it is. I use a vernier for general measuring, but was taught that to be serious about a dimension, use a micrometer. I have a nice vernier caliper, but without a dial and now find it hard to read, as the eye site is failing, so have gone over to a digital one. Interesting video Lyle, thanks, as always.
I was hoping to see the dial removal and replacement. I need to clean and readjust a few but without taking off the dial in my case the rest cannot be removed.
Anyway I enjoyed your video as I always do. Thanks.
+That Old Bob thanks Bob
Another great video Mr Pete!! Thanks for "breaking the ice" and showing how these kinds of things can be done.
Those red boxes get my attention! Thanks, Tom
Great video Lyle . Thanks
A F Pienaar
Johannesburg
I absolutely enjoy every video!!! I learn so much from all of them. I always wanted to take one of those apart (I also dont care for when the dial is offset) but NO WAY WOULD I take my Starrett apart untill now. Now I know what to look for Thanks mrpete and as always 2 thumbs up!!
+Rosario W thanks for watching
best comedy show on the internet. cant wait for the next one!
+Vegan Adventure thank you very much
I've got one that's stuck. Now I know how to untstuck it. Thanks Mr. Pete!
Regarding boxes, I definitely prefer the Starett. I also love the the tools that come in them. :-)
Pete,u did a great job.
👍
I like the vintage look of the B&S box.
Very Good Mr.Pete. Thank You.
You are a brave man to disassemble such tiny things. Nice result. P.s. i like the Brown Sharpe box mostly because whenever I see a Sterrett box I figure I will be unwilling to part with that much money.
+ted sykora not brave, just desperate
Just brilliant, thanks Mr Pete.
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thanks for sharing ALWAYS LEARNING
It wasn't at all sexist to mention that women assembled the calipers. Our men went to battle in WW2 but is was our mothers, aunts and sisters that built the tools of war. The younger generation probably are not aware of this. All of my aunts were welders at the Kaiser shipyards and my grandmother was the head cook at that facility as well. About the boxes, I always liked the Brown & Sharpe boxes over the Starrett boxes.
Nice video Mr Pete I’d go with the Brown and Sharpe box
My 1st boss and shop owner John Bond some 38 years ago had Helios dial calipers and other assorted tools. I always thought Helios was a cheaper brand in Germany kinda like Enco or General in the USA. He gave me my 1st combination square a brand new Mitutoyo .
Sounds like a good boss
I like the Starrett Box looks like a Christmas package.
A man I worked with had a thin piece of shim stock that he cut to about .125" wide. He would slip the shim stock between the rack and pinion and "slip" the calipers to zero. He also carefully ground off about 1" of the shield and rounded the shaft to measure smaller/deeper holes.
Mr Pete should have taken the rack out at the same time as the dial,
if you look closely at the finished gauge, you will see the center of the hand dial has bent,
you would not have had to take the clock face all apart if you had done it that way
B&S box looks like a used car salesman's tie but I still rather be buried in it than the dreary Starrett alternative. That said, it's what's inside that counts and I'd be happy to find either under my Christmas tree.
+Tim McCauley that made me laugh, thank you
SO Dwayne Johnson borrowed and adapted that catch phrase from you! nice.
Not sure what you are talking about
fake wrestling.. I mean pro wrestling fans will know the reference...th-cam.com/video/62MkIQM5UUc/w-d-xo.html
I prefer the starret box as the b&s looks like wrapping paper for children's gifts.
Me too.
Wow, I see the exact opposite.
Sir, I could also relate to your sweet smell of success, being a powerfull one. Fantastic job done Sir. Thanks for the Video along with the associated historical information. Best wishes for your future endeavours.
Have been a bit of a lurker on your vids. Been a subscriber, but not much on the comments section. Always interesting and informative as always. Even if it something that I have forgotten to remember!!!! 😂😂😂
The Brown & Sharpe box/logo of that vintage is new to me, and appealing, but my heart belongs to Starrett.. mostly. :)
I believe we used to use a slip of paper to help reset them. Looking at the back of yours, the pinion gear looks to be held with a spring and that should be able to be lifted with a small piece of paper.
Well Done Mr. Pete! I really enjoyed watching. Very insightful and yes, I too enjoyed your sidebars. Cheers!
Thanks
Thanks Mr. Pete. I love your work. Happy thanksgiving and hope you’re with family.
Mitutoyo dial calipers come with a small brass shim tool that is used to reset the dial pointer when a tooth jumps. You simply insert it on top of the rack, roll the caliper up onto the brass shim tool such that the pinion is now sliding on the tool instead of the rack. After removing the shim tool the gears reengage to reorient the pointer. Sometimes it takes a try or two to get the mesh the way you want it but surely is much easier than the disassembly method.
+resiggy13 thanks. I already made a video, being released this weekend, addressing that issue. Several have reported that to me
Very good MrPete! The same parts seem to get smaller as the years go by.
Marvellous video my new Moore and wright ones came in a nice blue m & w box
We have neither in IL
Mitutoyo is my favorite.
And Mitutoyo have a distributor and I can buy it directly from him.
A win-win if a bit expensive (but it PAYS to pay more for good quality tools - sadly few understand it), or so I think
Agree. Looks a whole lot like my Helios.
I like the Starrett box.
What a nice tool. Great job on that Mr Pete. Thanks as always. ps,,,, Du bist der Chef.,,,, you are the boss,,, your mom would have liked that.
Like both but have a lot of starrett, but like the starett box. Bob
+Joanne Pfeiffer thanks for watching
"using my wife's toothbrush" is classic!!! LOL
lol
I prefer Starret. The B&S box reminds me of a Hawaien shirt
#Mrpete222, Looks like you have the depth "keeper" on backwards. The holes appeared off center so the keeper is hanging off the end. Might just be the video but you might want to check just to be on the safe side. Looked at all my BS and Starretts and they are away from the edge so it must be a helios design thing. Thanks for the video as always.
My first tubalcain video..... It won't be my last!
Brown & Sharpe box all the way!
Thanks
Hello my friend, I’m a carpenter by trade, even though I’m 72 years old this year I still work doing small projects.
I have to agree with you that if I had a dial caliper watching the dial at 12 o’clock would be my way. I have a few nice tools from Bridge Tool. I tried to save all my Bridge City small tools boxes .
Regarding what choice of tool box that I would have. It would be the Brown and Sharpe box. The box cover looks like a special Christmas awaits for you.
I would like to ask you, in the event you should decide to sell any of your small tools that I would be interested in a dial caliber. Replacing my Home Depot/ Husky digital caliper for a quality tool. I have several 1-2-3 blocks that I use when I’m laying out my wood projects. It’s amazing just how similar a tool and shop
Watch for my petebay videos. Where I will be selling a variety of tools. Not sure I will have calipers