For some reason, youtube messed up bad with this video :( 200+ old comments are missing (not sure if they're just held for review or something, so I'll re-write this in case my old pinned comment doesn't come back) #1 Video not made considering hardswaps. With hardswaps some talismans are better. #2 I know cat talisman does negate fall damage if you fall within that 4m range :P It was a joke in the vid #3 Soreseal math slightly incorrect as I accidentally forgot to do it multiplicatively when I changed the example 0.73 (27 negation) * 1.15 = 0.84 1900/0.84 = 2261 so it slightly wins by EHP vs Heirloom (and also consider a few points of def leveling bonus, although this is more negligible at 125+) However, remember the test is skewed very much in favor of soreseals because I'm assuming pure raw HP when stats should be more evenly spread out. Overall, you still want to avoid soreseals at 125+ They are good talismans at lower levels though. UGH TH-cam RESTORE THE COMMENTS!
I think the best thing about the Soreseals is that with both equipped, two Heirloom/Millicent's Prosthesis talismans, Godrick's rune, Grafted Greatsword, Commoner's Robe, and Silver Tear Mask, you can be sitting at a comfortable level 140 stats-wise whilst still RL1.
Hey guy, just wanted to throw some flowers you way. You're by far the best Elden Ring channel I've had the pleasure of stumbling into. Initially I was thrown a bit off by the low audio quality and your somewhat lackluster speech skill, and I felt a bit sad because the actual effort put into these videos are waaaaay beyond what some other folks throw out there in a sleak package, and therefore get most of the attention. Very happy to say that you and the audio quality have improved continously, and leagues beyond the starting point. You already get the accolades from people who know their shit (I ain't one of them), but this'll defo get other folks to listen up and pay notice. I know it may be a silly proposition, but might I suggest you remaster/redo some of them earlier ones (in terms of audio). I know, I know, it takes time and wouldn't necessarily improve the actual "content", but for someone who stumbles into you for the first time who has an attention span slightly worse than mine, it could make the difference between staying or leaving, and you deserve the attention. Anyways, thanks for the stats and analysis, and keep on making great content!
@Chrightt- Goodmorning sir, I pray this comment finds you well and in good spirits! I had a bow question for you sir! Additionally, I apologize if a bow weapon class video is in the works or if I missed an already existing one elsewhere contained within another video. I am running an arcane hybrid caster who would like a reliable ranged weapon to better conserve FP or to fallback on when FP is completely spent. Is the serpents bow a better option for me vs. A typical bow with the barrage weapon art while using status inflicting arrows? Or would a dedicated bow build with a barrage focused bow perform more reliably than an arcane build using a serpents bow and it's mighty shot?
I actually do believe that Radagon's Soar Seal can be effective if you are wearing very heavy armor as 40 percent damage neagtion also negates 40 percent of the drawback of the Soar Seal (Only 9% damage increase). It takes a very specific build tough that has to benefit from all stats a lot (Strange Quality Build). So for almost all people that wear them, they shouldn't but the answer is IMO not a simple yes or no even at meta PvP levels. Marika's Sore Seal is obviously always ass, as no caster can benefit from Arcane, Faith and Intelligence at once.
Apparently, melee weapons can also headshot. I've heard that that is part of why Giant Hunt deals so much damage, though i can't confirm the statement.
Soreseals (specifically Radagon’s) can carry you trough the early game, but once you develop your build, you should look for a replacement. There, skipped you a math lecture.
The math is interesting but it neglects a key factor. That factor is... does taking more damage per swing reduce the amount of swings needed to kill you? If the answer is no, and the Soreseal lets you diversify your build into a stronger hybrid, then they're still valuable. When people focus too much on theoretical EHP comparisons, they often forget that being left with 50 HP vs being left with 65 HP after a combo still leaves them one-shot to a follow-up. He uses the same argument that players were using with regards to the Prisoner's Chain in DS3 and the end product was the same: if it still takes me 5 hits to die, then there's no reason not to get free stats if I'm a hybrid build.
Idk, I feel like you get enough runes already. I usually end up at level 150+ by the time I finish a playthrough without any grinding so I’d definitely be over levelled if I did that
"Sometimes, defense is your best offense." Yep, I remember banging my head against Fume Knight in DS2 before, trying all the damage-buffs I could, before I stopped suddenly and went, "Let's try high defense instead." Beat him right away...
"Be like water" lol yeah switching it up is always the way to tackle challenges when one way ain't working in the souls Bourne games. As these game force to to "find more than one way to skin a cat" so to speak lol
Elden Ring has a lot of hard to avoid damage, particularly late game. I was wearing almost no armor and going for as much damage as possible, but boss fights were frustrating because I would get killed by an attack chain very easily. Swapping some talismans to protection and equip load, and wearing better armor really helped. Technically, I only take 25% less damage than before, but it's the difference between being 1-2 shot and being 3-4 shot. Put it another way: It's going from 1 hit per hp flask to 2 hits per hp flask.
Pretty much how I beat Malenia on my blind run. I took Ironjar Aromatics and face tanked my way through her fight with jumping R2's and the Blasphemous Blade. Can't out heal my damage when you can't stunlock or damage me all that much.
Marika's Soreseal is made so much worse by the fact that it's in the Haligtree, too... by the time you can even reach it, there's no way it's gonna be a good idea for your build. Oh, and great breakdown as always!
@@TJ-kv3fv don't even have to be that wary, if you sprint straight through the room and just climb the ladder quickly you most likely don't even get hit
One interesting thing about the Blessed Dew Talisman that is worth mentioning (kind of) is that you can spam equip/unequip to heal up since it heals as soon as it equips and you don't want to wait.
Blessed dew talisman is all about those times when you need to conserve resources (flasks and/or FP) because you dont want an area to respawn. Same with warming stones.
This is especially effective at low levels, where the static bonuses could go as far as to supersede the absorption penalty for all weaker attacks. At those moments you literally gain 20 free stat points for no penalty, which is (IIRC) the biggest single stat point giving ring in souls history. Past midgame, though, it starts to rapidly get worse and worse.
i dont think it will really work that way at any level. Stats only increase your defense whereas armour and talismans can increase and lower your damage negation. Defense is just a straight subtraction from the damage coming in and a few stat levels will at most be giving you like idk maybe 10 extra defense. And its usually somewhere in the 100s at low levels so ur taking off 10 or so extra damage from an attack while also adding 15 PERCENT more damage. So ya that might be enough if we are talking about some of the weakest attacks in the game but anything else it’s not gonna be enough to negate the extra damage.
Having higher max stamina is mainly useful for PvE situations like attacking more in a burst on stance-broken enemies, spamming more sorceries in general and a few specific moments like being able to more aggressively chase Fire Giant & Elden Beast without running out of stamina for attacks by the time you reach them.
Marika's soreseal is pretty bad, since you can only get it late game. And you're most likely past level 100. Radagon soreseal is Great, since you can get it easily early game when you're around level 10-50 it's highly effective. And most other good Talisman aren't available either. However both are very useful for spell/weapon testing. To meet certain requirements without respecing or leveling up.
I got clandestinely lucky in my first playthrough, having no real soulslike experience. It was a slog to get through the fort in Caelid at level 40, but Radagon's soreseal gave me 20 extra stat points, so I could wield the golden halberd easily. Also found just the right somber stones to upgrade it to +8, giving me a weapon that could do 770ish damage before I even set foot in the lakes. That playthrough had a very... interesting early and mid-game.
Most I've ever gotten out of Marika's is three useful stats on an Arc/Fth build, and while Crightt does say that the defense loss isn't worth it for 15 levels, I'd say that's the borderline of worth from an experience standpoint on a second playthrough. If you're getting one-shot or two-shot by things that you feel shouldn't be doing that, then swap to one of the single-stat boosters instead for a while, which is something I absolutely did. I rocked enough Mnd to summon Dung Eater after +5, enough Fth to cast the rot flower after +5 and a flask, and 60 Arc after the +5, so all 15 of those points were points I could invest elsewhere while still adding value to my build. Outside of builds that use all 4 on Radagon's or at least 3 on Marika's, it's a hard sell, and you should probably stick to the Heirlooms otherwise. If you're only using 2 stats, adding 5 levels and swapping to an Heirloom permanently is perfectly viable, especially if you're a PvE player. I will say though that Marika's plus Mimic mask is the best Arcane boost you can get and is great for farming items when combined with the Silver Scarab and is good to grab even for that alone.
@@MasterofLaziness Yeah I have Marika's + silver tear mask permanently equipped while farming for stuff. Hell, since some of the droprates in this game are absolutely fucked, I even switch over to godrick's greatrune at one point because getting a total of 18 free arcane was worth it imo (and rune arcs aren't really much of a bottle neck so I never minded "wasting" them for farming lol).
Probably not a popular option, but I've started using the Physick flask that has the same effect as the twigs and just chug it before an encounter that I'm not confident about, and any bosses. I almost never have to go and collect my runes now unless I just have a stupid random death. Also good for any jump puzzle areas (like reaching the 3 fingers), which is why I started doing it in the first place.
@@LordDraco3 when I found that Physik Tear I already knew it was gonna be a main stay in my build on my first run. Lone behold I still use on: Run # Whatever I'm On. Still wish Sacrificial Twigs were craftable... Like honestly would that have been too much to ask?
Hah, I used it that way without even testing it(intentionally at least. I did accidently confirm it works that way). Still feel silly that I needed to though. It was during my first run and I was trying to get items by dropping down dangerous heights. Ahhh... the number of twigs I used up...
I feel like the roar medallion is bugged or there is an oversight or something. It is strictly worse than the shard of Alexander and it simply doesn't boost any breath attacks, even though it says it does.
Roar medallion increases heavy attack damage by 15% when used with attacks that change your heavy attack like War Cry and Barbaric Roar. Useful with the Axe Talisman and Spiked Cracked Physick. Having a Highland Axe in your off hand gives a 7.5% boost to roars like the Roar Medallion. It's possible to make a build where going all in on a heavy attack will do around as much damage as a crit. I prefer using War Cry over Barbaric Roar as your heavy attack becomes a running attack, and the stance damage on Barbaric Roar seems to be very low
@@atomick2398 barbaric roars attack string true combos for 2 hits on any part of the swing on battle hammers from what I’ve tested. Braggarts roar is my favorite because it boosts your stats so much and gives you a really high poise and damaging r2
While, yes, the roar medallion is strictly worse than the Shard of Alexander, keep in mind that you can get the medallion at the very beginning of the game in Limgrave, while you can't get the shard until all the way in Farum Azula, not to mention the fact that you need to follow his whole questline -- which is missable, by the way! Unless it's possible to get the shard early by just killing Alexander as soon as you meet him, but even if that's true, then why would you do that, you monster?
I think soreseals are actually multiplicative with armor, not additive, so in your example the soreseal one actually has 1900/0.73 * 0.85 = 2212 EHP. Also stat points gives you defense, so the actual EHP will be a bit higher.
Yes, you're right. I added it in the pinned comment right when I scanned the video. Ugh, totally screwed up when I changed the example, but the conclusion remains roughly the same due to investing into one stat alone being a skewed test for soreseals. Thanks for pointing it out though!
As somebody who very often changed loadout without respecing, on my end I Radagon's Soreseal is still usefull sometimes, as a way to increase to equip load and more heavy Elden Blink, and to meet the requirements, mainly for the one-eyed shield (Elden Ring gives you cannons the Powder Kegs could only dream of).
I would almost be disappointed I chose to do an arcane build my first playthrough if it didn’t lead me to eventually finding this channel. Another righteous video with exceedingly useful maths and info. Keep up the prime work my dude
I use sore seals at low levels, and once I hit 40ish vigor, and 20 str/dex/end I drop it for something else. I use them because I feel the trade off, with radagon’s because marika’s is kinda bleh and really late game, the trade off at low levels is worth it, you are lvl 20, and now you have 20 extra levels in health, endurance, strength and dexterity. It’s not perfect but now you are effectively lvl 40 with the trade off of taking a bit more damage. In the end it all boils down to personal preference. No one is wrong for using certain talismans, nor is anyone right for using other ones. Elden ring has this great thing about it where it doesn’t matter as much what you do because you can be great without min/maxing for the meta. Have fun, and remember, hugs from Fia are free.
Yesss! I was hoping for this, thank you! Also I noticed something funny with the blessed dew talisman, when you equip it, it immediately gives you the 2 hp, so if you unequip it and equip it rapidly, you can heal significantly more health... At the cost of your fingers, and inability to play for a couple minutes... But it can heal you for free!
if you're rapid swapping to regen the glintstone crowns trick is better. Rapidly un- and re-equipping erdtrees favor can give you infinite stamina while sprinting though.
Ngl at least once in singleplayer I have waited out poisoning using this because I didn't want to go back and heal or whatever lol. If you click fast enough you'll heal faster than the poison can hurt you 😂
what I might add on the cerulean amber medallion, only past 220 FP does using it gain you more than 5 levels worth, so you'd be better off investing 4 levels in mind and using one of the four +5 talismans instead.
I just want to thank you for all your Elden ring breakdown videos. They’ve helped massively in giving me the tools to build my own builds instead of trying to Google search for builds and getting those idiotic clickbait builds (BECOME AN ELDEN GOD) or some dime a dozen builds that have trash stat distribution. I’ve never had more fun making builds armed with the knowledge on how to min max to suit my needs. Hoping to see more and more out of you!
from level 71 to 91 you get 1 DEFENSE AND 1 RESISTANCE PER LEVEL from level 91 to 111 you get 1 RESISTANCE PER LEVEL if you use soreseals to close these gaps they are much more worth it
Blessed Dew Talisman was quite nice for my first playthrough, where I was taking my time to explore everything and try to get all treasure in each area. The slower pace of exploration meant the talisman usually had enough time to top off my health, and saved me from using flasks out of combat.
My brain hurts. I love coming to your channel for in depth stats on what is effective and what isn’t. Heck for the last week or two I’ve been recommending quite a few of your videos to people on Reddit when they ask about how some things work like in depth soft caps, best staves, fun build (your night wielder was fun!), and seals!
Thanks for recommending my videos! Hopefully my videos made some confusing points understandable and potentially settle some popular questions for you!
blessed dew talisman has helped me in bosses and in stressful enemy encounters. There's been more than a few occasions where I took a hit and ended up having just a few HP left.
agree. love the dragon greatshield. its almost a must in pve at higher new game + if you dont run heavy armor that is. vs bosses i often pair it with black flame protection since most of the really dangerous attacks are all physical based. most elemental attacks can be avoided easily but vs dragons i prefer the specific incantation for their damage type, cause of the aoe elemental oneshot attacks. overall i would say lord of blood exultation, alexander and claw talisman are the best damage increasing talismans by far. old lord talisman for buffs is a must and imo the duration should be buffed to 50% at least. who the heck wants to reapply buffs during a boss fight. surely nobody
The Scorpion talismans are extremely powerful in PvE. I ignored it since I though split damage was terrible but Flame and Lightning affinity are really good. ChaseTheBro argued that Lightning affinity is really good in PvP since lightning defense doesn't scale with a stat, in combination with environmental factors such as rain and water.
Nah split damage is vastly more powerful in elden than single. Single only wins at low level, which is consequently, the only time it makes any sense to use a soreseal. Low level.
@@DKarkarov it took until 50 strength at about level 125 for heavy to surpass fire. Defenses aside lighting and fire are purposely designed to give you more base damage.
@@Name-ql7jf Your failing hard. You are also very wrong on quality. But I don't really care, someone being wrong on the internet especially in relation to from software rpgs is nothing new.
Thank you for your hard work! Understanding all of the underlying mechanics makes character building so much more fun. I knew those soreseals weren't really worth it when I tested them.
Happy to know that I figured out heirlooms are better than soreseals quite a while ago and have been building without sorrseals. Once I looked at the drop in damage reduction I was like... NOPE! Also yes, Dragoncrest Talisman is GOD for facing Malenia. It even decreases the amount of HP she sucks from you lol. Great video!
TLDR: Soreseals are VERY worth it through the early game, still worth it through midgame, and still not terrible for PVE later game depending on your build. If you wear them in PVP though past level 70, you're going to get absolutely wrecked by the multiplicative damage stacking, causing many ashes of war to one shot you with plenty to spare.
It’s really weird that they put a item in the game that is specifically made for twinks. Seems like they’ve done nothing to get rid of twinking. They should’ve got rid of those items and removed the ability to drop equipment for other players.
@@Garl_Vinland in ER it’s a five minute horse ride to go get the Sore Seal, seven minutes if you stop to get the beast repellent torch so the rats don’t bother you.
@@rashiro Truth be told, the level of those enemies suggest you shouldnt be there that early. Also, good luck getting Marika's Soreseal. Also Radagon's Soreseal is only good if youre wearing armor which, lets be honest are the end game locked ones. Like Veterans.
@@Garl_Vinland Marika's Soreseal is also pointless by the time you make it to the Haligtree. Armor or not the RSS boost vastly outweighs the 15% extra damage at lower levels. And if you really want to be sweaty about it, you can trot Torrent to the Bestial Sanctum and drop down for the Dragoncrest Shield talisman. Margit is an easy kill, and there's your second talisman slot. Now you're only taking 5% extra damage for the RSS boost. Suggested or not, RSS is easily acquired by everyone. And reality is that after their first playthrough people are spending the first hour on a new character grabbing RSS, seeds and tears for 12 Flasks at +10, the two miner bells, and their primary weapon. What's actually suffering here? The few brand new players that run into a "twink" and get butchered below level 35? Those folks are going to get carved apart regardless, and represent less than 5% of the people I've seen on low level invasions. Once people make it Liurnia and explore a little the "twink" advantage is pretty much nonexistent. 99/100 invasions in Limgrave and Stormveil are a host with two password phantoms in endgame equipment with status effect weapons.
@@rashiro Thats what Im saying. Its a twink item made for twinks. These games are notoriously "offline until level 80" after you get to a point BECAUSE of these things existing. Its not fun, even for seasoned players because they basically need to either spent 20 hours smurfing through the game, or they need friends to mule the items to them. How to fix low level PvP: -Delete the soreseals/prisoners chains from the game. -Have the amazing laser weapons locked behind absurdly high stat requirements. -Get rid of password matchmaking. You wanna play with a friend? have them level along with you and put their sign in a bush somewhere like the good old days of DS1. -Give certain spells "tiers" so they arent available at low levels. and have spells scale with catalyst level. No more Dark beads. -Get rid of item dropping for other players. There exists no other purpose for this other than smurfing/griefing. "Item trades" werent a thing since Dark Souls 1. -Bring back Soul Memory. DS2 is the only game that didnt have smurfs EVER. Until the devs caved and gave us the Agape Ring. SURPRISE, Twinks showed up because of it. Soul memory didnt even effect the meta level because of how it scaled into the millions. It only made sure Twinks couldnt invade at Giants. Its not surprising though. The same people who complained about it also complained about Poise being absent in DS3. Well, its back and wouldnt you know it? Havel Moms and Giant Dads are back, only this time its some dude in a funny hat and Veterans Armor casting spells. Its honestly all just an alt right plot.
Entertainingly, at low enough vigour Radagon's soreseal can negate its own drawback because the health boost provided by the +5 vigour (about 112 at 11 vigour) is greater than 15% of your maximum health (about 65 at 11 vigour). In this niche scenario it is better than the strength and dexterity heirloom talismans.
Man, this is absolutely mind blowing. You changed my entire talisman loadout. Somehow I made it to level 139 in this game without truly understanding meta game fully. Thank you deeply
17:37 It's also worth mentioning that swapping from Crimson Amber to Blessed Dew after getting hit is a good thing to do in duels to get some HP back as the Crimson Amber Tallisman is basically useless after you get hit and if you don't have any source of regen.
Same thing with the Primal GlintStone Talisman. You can use it to reduce the massive cost of Blessing of the Erdtree and once you take it off the regen will fix you right back up in no time. Works even better if you have the Old Lords.
@@Chrightt In general yea constant hrdswapping might not be something most of the players are going to do, but in some cases, especially this one, I think even more casual players could easily see the value it has
This is a good and well presented video. Some minor constructive feedback: it would have looked a little slicker and been a little clearer to consistently use the images/names for the highest level of each talismans (or if going for the base level ones, to explicitly reference the different levels and what numbers they give); as it is I think you are using highest level numbers with the base level image some of the time, but not all the time (and the description for one of the horn charms too had the image for the base one but the description for the +1 version). But still a really clear video and good maths for EHP!
Crimson Seed is great when paired with the ritual talismans late game, it essentially ensures each flask fully heals, getting the ritual buff to come back.
I'm loving it on NG+ it basically says you never have to pop 2 flasks to avoid the threat of a 1 tap (even 2 tap against anything, but the most brutal). Went from thinking it was a straight dogshit talisman to being hard pressed to swap it out of my set up.
A good way to think of the soreseals is THEY MAKE SOME NICHE BUILDS POSSIBLE but MAKE NO ALREADY POSSIBLE BUILD STRONGER. it’s for variety and fun, not power and optimization.
This is what makes them and the heirlooms amazing in earlygame where you don't have high rune gains to powerlevel. It allows you to focus on a stat rather than spread out your levels for stat requirements.
I dont even think they make niche builds more of a possibility. You can play basically anything without them. You'd just have to give up some other stats (like vig/mind/end). If you required some seriously hybrid stat investment, I'd STILL not use them unless I was, say, under level 60.
@@stevenluoma1268 No some builds are simply impossible without the use of a soreseal. One of mine at 138 is a good example of that. The extra damage you take does suck a little but if i was getting 1 shot chances are even without it i was getting 1 shot XD
As an observation, I think the bow talisman works with spells that have a drop off due to simulating gravity on the projectile. Maybe the talismans bonus applies to the projectile after it leaves your character and just increases distance traveled before gravity based drop off.
Nice breakdown, clarification on the Radagon's and Godfrey's was enough for me to not auto-include them in anything, really. Optimal repeated casting is alot better than using a talisman slot, anyway.
The fact that the greatshield talisman is so unbelievably nerfed in pvp actually broke me down a little, I used it so often and so confidently, just to find out it did bumblefuck nothing
Taking 5% less damage quite often adds an extra hit before you die, turning a lot of fights around. The other guy just has to die, doesn't matter if you also die.
@@acrab6527 I know, but these "A little bit more defense and I'd still be alive" situations are so rare, that you're better off using something else. At this time, PvP is broken to the point where either you get one/two shotted or the enemy gets one/two shotted, unless you're using something off-meta to have fun, In which case, good luck... I guess...
@@LooterGameplays You must be getting different invaders. Mine are like Chright's last video. 3 minutes of quick pokes, throwing knives and glintstone darts. A dozen little hits as either whittling you down or trying to proc a status. That or just trading. If the enemy has to hit you more times than you have to hit them, you win.
@@acrab6527 I mean, I am doing high-level PvP, so maybe that's why the experiences are different. Most of the people I fight usually use the RoB, or Glintstone Pebble, Lion's Claw etc etc and can deal stupid amounts of damage in an instant. I don't think it's because of the RL I am at tho, these things are broken in and of themselves, not because of a specific build that makes them super strong. Also, status are as common in high level as META, it's actually kinda stupid.
Blessed Dew talisman is great for exploration, as you sort of pointed out. It isn't useful during a fight, but if you've lost a couple hundred HP in skirmishes and you're walking around afterwards in low to moderate danger, it is a great way to get back to full health without having to use a crimson flask. It is much better early game than late, but it is easy to get really early.
My own opinion is that Sorseals are for meeting minimum requirements and not much else. The damage increase negates any health benefit. There are better talismans for boosting damage. It's just the illusion of higher stats. It's "20 levels worth of stats" but only if you would put points in those stats anyway. The physical sorseal is about +200 health, +8 stamina, +8 equip load, +30 AR. All for about +12.5% net extra damage taken. The extra damage doesn't matter if you don't get hit, but then the extra health doesn't matter either, and you can get more damage than +30 AR from using a specialized talisman such as the Claw, the Axe, one of the exultations. If you don't have alternatives for damage then I guess it's decent. I used it for the equip load, but once I had raised my endurance by 5 I stopped.
I heard so much mixed information on the seals. Thank you for showing the math! I'd have believed they increase damage taken by 7% without this video for a long time. It also explains why my mage feels so much tankier with some medium armor. I try not to get hit, but fighting in small rooms does result in some damage for me still. I still think I'm doing quite well for the first time using a controller, but it's not like I don't have a build advantage... unless I fuck up. Like by using a soreseal to gain stats for a optional katana I don't really need!
IMO, greatshield talisman should have boosted stability by 10% of the REMAINING stability, making it better with small shields (although still not great due to low stability overall) and worse with good stability shields (although still improved)
Ever since I discovered the Volcano Pot does DoT, and only takes 2 volcanic stones to craft...it's been my go-to bomb to drop on enemies heads. You can easily farm volcanic stones at the Primeval Sorcerer Azur site of grace, there are five that spawn right where the NPC is/used to be, and they give 1-2 stones per pick up. In an hour, while watching some Netflix, I had over 1000 stones :)
The only time I felt myself using soreseals was for low RL challenge runs/pvp builds. A bit of food for thought below regarding such: The extra investment at RL11 or RL25, for instance, would help me meet thresholds for weapon stat requirements, while maximizing my vigor. Given this video, I'd need to run it through a calculator to see their EHP, but I guesstimate that they may become profitable at low RL since you cant afford to increase your vigor to anywhere near 60 vigor. That said, it may still be possible for crimson amber and erdtree to be better. However, given how endgame the +2's are for both, compared to how easy it is to acquire radagon's soreseal, I feel like it still points me to use the soreseal instead. Further testing would be needed to gauge the effectiveness between radagon's soreseal and the +1 versions of crimson amber and erdtree, which can both be acquired before entering the endgame areas. (the obvious counterpoint of muling might come up, so I'll just jump preemptively in to say that muling endgame talismans is unfair, thus I'm not considering it in planning a low RL build) Though you do 100% have a point that if there is only 1 stat you require a bump in at low RL to meet a requirement, it would increase your survivability to use an heirloom instead. Stat requirements tend to be the make or break of early game builds, so its a BIG tossup on how many stats you need to bump from any base class option, on a case by case basis. (There may even be a very niche reason to have a soreseal AND an heirloom if you were going for the memes, but one should probably rethink their item choice if this case comes up, as it limits your OTHER talisman slots)
Shabriri's Woe is pretty useful for tanky builds doing co-op and/or bosses so I think its worth more than a mention. You can easily distract and tank the boss or other enemies for the host while they and/or other phantoms melt them down. I found it very effective with a STR build two-handing great shields and it was especially fun for fights like spirit Godfrey. His attacks wash over your cold slab of stone like a warm breeze on a wee babe's cheeks as you bash his shins in with guard counters. Throwing knives are also very useful for keeping aggro even while other players are ripping chunks of health off, the boss will turn right around even if they're mid-combo.
I’m so used to my seals on me they’ve become part of my build and when ever I take them off it’s like a weight of preventable death has been lifted, tbh there not bad there are some spells that help with damage negation and dragon greatsheild talisman
I know its probably a meme/joke about the cat talisman.. but maybe some people will take it seriously. it at least negates all fall damage from survivable drops
Same but I feel it's often the other 'students' fault and we are defo more interested in this game than school stuff. Usually the same for the teacher lol. In all fairness I've had some pretty good/chill teachers so I can't complain *too* much... but there is always one. Or two...
Side note on Arrow's Reach Talisman, because arrows experience damage fall off, past 5 yards or so it acts as a damage buff. And if you aren't using your bow from far away, what are you doing with it?
😂 Barrage bleed builds I guess. Definitely really good for PVE. The two arrow talismans are pretty much a sure slot. PVP-wise most people will chase you to kingdom come anyway.
@@Chrightt Yeah I'd imagine that it works best in PVE. As far as I can tell Black and barrage ash Serpent are the best bows for PVP. I do think that it works on the Ballestas and Great Bows so I'd be suppressed if the snipers haven't slotted it into their builds.
I think the soreseals serve a good purpose. But higher levels u actually suffer from them since the damage number u take is a lot higher, and that multiplier is not worth it just for a few stats difference. The clutch talismans are 50/50 at higher levels also, depending on how u build. I'd like to also add, radagon soreseal is a great way to meet wep requirements early on so u can focus on what ever stats u need to work on for early investment.
I did the math even further on soreseals and cam to the conclusion that the nullpoint was somewhere around sl76. however, I would have really appreciated if you could have done a more precise analysis for let's say sl15, sl35 and sl50 for soreseals
This is largely dependent on what the soreseals enable you to use (typically strongest on an intelligence build that still needs the str/dex) up to around 100 assuming duels (so no HP pots). For lower levels at 50 and under, there is no doubt soreseals are pretty much a direct slot because of how early the curve is and how much % bonus you will be getting from it.
Yeah at 35 vigor, the marginal 5 points of vigor from the soreseal gives you more than 15% extra HP so the other extra stats are essentially free. Absolutely amazing for low level invasion builds.
I actually heavly disagree with marikas soreseal being superior. why? cause you won't be able to utilze arcane, faith and int at once much. cause lik3 each of them covers a different weapon category, whereas radagons soreseal perfectly covers all the melee weapons with additional hp, stermina/equip load!, strength and dex (to hit either str or dex weapon requirement!) that's why I actually would say radagons > marikas (as far as my 650 hours of ER showed)
cause as far as I can tell pvp/duels is more about defense buffs instead of offense buffs. cause it's way easier to get let's say +30% of a specific defense than it is to get +30% for offense. I will say you should preferably use offense buffs for pve only. aswell as the buff duration. personally I would never go for anything below a 60 seconds buff.
Something you didn’t mention is that having more stat points increases your defense so the 15% decrease in damage reduction is much lower. With the Soreseals you effectively get 20 extra levels which is much more than the Crimson Medallion’s 13 extra levels at 60 vigor. If you are solely using one damage stat it most likely isn’t worth it but, as someone who is using SoNaF in PVE, I’m going to keep using Soreseals.
This is assuming defence works exactly like dog3, which in er that is not the case. In ER absortion is king. However, another theory i have is that flat defence seems to matter very little and absorption a lot may be due to how huge damager number is in the late game. Because flat defence in early game matters more when it comes to actual reduction. I know this because i hate a fat tank character that wear all heavy armour and he does not give a shit about any attacks thats not from a downscaled phantom.
I'm not sold on the soreseals being bad yet. It seemed the more natural mitigation I had, the less it reduced. If I am at 0, it's obviously -15%. But when I was at 31% negation it only dropped me to about 23%. Vigor is not the only measure of tankiness. The extra Endurance (and thus, equip load) allowed me to wear heavier gear. I also wore Great Jar's so it's not like they were swappable for the argument. I found I saved myself 2% negation from checking the above metrics by doing this. 2% is pretty big when you're just trying to ignore 15%. It would also give me 2-3 flat negation for everything and resistances. Which is something, considering my prior flat negation was 130-148 it was at worst a 1% increase. Now, they *are* best for meeting requirements, this is true, but they still add some damage too. Given that after my natural negation I was really only sacrificing about 6% negation not including vigor increase I'd say the damage boost and easier requirements was worth it.
the evaluation is a bit wrong cause the value on the sorceal depend on the player skill, if you good and you evade everything or even most of the dmg then the loss of tankiness isnt a big deal, what truelly matter in the end should be the hit count threshold when you have to use a flask to keep you safe, for exemple if you could take 2 boss hit before having to heal, and equiping the sorceal only allow you 1 hit then it's really bad. If it doesnt change much well it's a big boost. If the sorceal help you reach 56 poise that also change everything.
I think we are missing a point for soreseals in PVE: bosses. Since a lot of bosses will kill you in 2-3 hits (unless you use bull-goat set or very specific defensive builds), many times you will be in the same 2-3 hits range with a soreseal or even with both, making them a great way of having that exttra boost to kill the boss faster.
Already taken into account. You would just use another talisman that would boost your damage by more than soreseals would, which there are plenty of options. A shame the comments are bugged out atm.
@@Chrightt I see, but that also means in that scenario heirlooms can also be discarded, because when there is no penalty in practice soreseals would always be superior to heirlooms. Am I getting it right?
@@pedja-yt You're a bit off. I'm measuring whether 15 points of extra stats is worth -15 reduction in damage. As it turns out, the effect is negative, meaning you hurt yourself more than you gained thus cutting into the "base 5 points" making soreseals worth less than +5 points of stats. I also did the measurement for 5 points vs just raw HP (in which case we come out worse than Crimson Amber, but it does not mean that 5 points to help meet requirements or more damage/hp is unusable. It is, in fact, a better option than soreseals overall. So you can think of the conclusion as Hierlooms are worth 5 points of stats while soreseals are worth 4 points of stats after taking into account the reduction in negation, so Hierlooms are better. Remember, diminishing returns also hits soreseals harder than Hierlooms because you have more stats that are less effective.
@@Chrightt Yeah, I get that and I agree, it's better in general, what I'm saying is there are times when damage negation doesn't matter, like let's say I don't care if a hit takes 60% of my HP or 75%, it's 2 hits either way. In that case I don't see any possible benefit from heirlooms.
Solid video, i learned so much good stuff. And it also scratched that nagging feeling of not knowing how much 5 vigor whould offset some of the damage. :)
chrightt i respected you, i had you in great steem, then you do dirty my preciouss moon of nokstella, I WANT TO GO WITH PLACIDUSAX RUIN GOLDEN BARRIER GOLDEN FULGURANT BARREIR ALL THE ANCIENT LIGHNING INCANTATIONS ROTTEN BREATH AND THE COMBO OF ROCK SLING AND LIGHNING STRIKE, ITS NOT USELESS 10 slots are not enough...
I've been explaining the EHP thing in a more roundabout way, by using an arbitrary hit (usually a 1k hit against 1440hp) and showing how your "hits until death" changes when your negation changes. What I use it for is to showcase that while the claim is that "you gain less negation the more negation you have, and so stacking damage reduction is not efficient", you actually gain multiplicatively more survival, so stacking damage reduction becomes better the more you do it. EHP absolutely showcases this too, but I feel that opening it up into an example drives the point home better for folks who're not that used to EHP. One thing that neither of these highlight though, is the effect on flask healing. When your negation is lower and HP pool is higher to compensate, while your EHP might remain the same, your flasks essentially become less effective. You have a higher HP pool to heal, but you also take bigger hits, so you need to use more flasks to heal up. It might not be a huge factor when figuring out what talismans to use, but if you keep running out of flasks then buffing up your negation could help out.
radagon's soreseal is the only viable soreseal unfortunately. there really isnt a single build that will make use of all 20 stats given by marika's soreseal. even with the stat hungry golden order build, the 5 arcane points give you nothing, so marika's soreseal only really gives you 10 points.
This was super useful! Ditched the soreseal and now my build is tank cancer lol. As a Str/Fth build, I got the Erdtree Greatshield, Siluria's Spear, and a regen spell on some heavy AF armor that makes me look like a golden Legionaire (Radahn's Set, but the Tree Sentinel Helm). Went with Ritual Shield talisman since I'll be regenerating HP behind the Erdtree Greatshield. I think Crimson Amber talisman ends up with technically slightly higher EHP, the hope is to re-use Ritual Shield by regenerating to full semi-frequently to reduce damage overall. Also fun fact, unlike in DS3, extending the length of a regen spell actually gives you that much more healing! That means Blessing's Boon with Old Lord's Talisman gets you almost as much healing as Erdtree's Blessing, for half the FP cost! If you're willing to wait, the healing is pretty cheap!
Soreseals are fantastic for sure for at least one thing: RL1 runs. After Radahn, you are basically guaranteed to get one-shot even with the best armor, anyway (two-shot if you use opaline tear). So they stat buffs onpy benefit you and let you access way more tools
26:00 I don't think this really gives the full picture though since stats like intelligence and strength also increase some of your resistances a little bit with each level. Which makes comparing just the vigor give an incomplete picture of how much tankier the soreseal makes you. It kind of makes the Crimson Amber Medallion looks better in comparison than it really is.
Thank you for your videos, I'm not really a subscriber because I don't need to see your new content, but you still provide a valuable resource that I've now watched a dozen of your videos. I love your approach to the breakdown in how to make a decision.
Since you say you aren't going into any more detail on them and didn't mention it in your overview, I want to say that Shabriri's Woe does have practical use if you're a player who regularly helps others out as a co-op phantom. It's basically the same logic as using it with the Mimic Tear, but you can structure your build around being a tank with much more specificity than most hosts do. Or just use it on any fight regardless of build where the key to victory more or less relies on a complicated one-shot mechanic that most hosts don't know how to avoid (like Malenia and Waterfowl Dance) so as long as you yourself know how to deal with those Shabriri's really can increase your odds of success simply by meaning the host gets targeted with those less.
Soreseal’s increase stats via levels. So they can be very effective early-mid game but get less effective as you level because they contribute a fixed amount, not a percentage. Plan to replace them eventually.
PVP's where Conceiling Veil shines (pardon the pun): hardswap, crouch, Greatbow, Rain of Arrows AoW, L2, win. Even better when people are standing close to walls, the orbital gatling strike appears right above their heads: instadeath. Works even better with Golem's Great Arrow if you can stomach the farm (highest dmg, poise dmg, hits in aoe, got it all).
One small thing I would like to mention about the Blessed Dew talisman is that it acts like the Sun Princess ring in ds3, in the fact that it gives 2 hp when you equip it, not shortly afterwards, meaning that you can rapidly equip and un-equip it to gain health faster than 2hp per second. I don't know how much faster, but it is something that i think might be worth mentioning. Also, I personally use it to top myself off between fights in the open world, as you shouldn't waste flasks that are going to try to keep going, as the flasks are more important than having one hit worth of more health in some cases.
@@Verbose_Mode Personally, i think it would be better to have the crimson seed talisman on during the fight, then switch to the blessed dew afterwards to get the healing without the other stuff. Either that, or just use the takers cameo to get heal on kill.
Fun fact about the blue feathered branchsword. The hit that gets you under 20% will be reduced as well! If your at 50% hp you will often get value without knowing it. It was the same way in previous Darksouls with blue tearstone ring. I've been running a heavy armor mage with low hp for laughs and found you can cheat vigor tests by using ritual shield + blue branch. mind you while immune to oneshots anything can two shot you afterwards but the potential is there for shenanigans.
I knew that the soreseals were rarely worth it. I found it baffling that so many peeps on twitter were singing its praises when it just makes you more likely to die lmao
This video is awesome, I’ve been just going through all your videos I wish I knew this stuff sooner than my 5th play through! Helps pick talismans easier, glad I got some stuff right
Something worth pointing out about the Clarifying and Mottled Horns is that Focus is... pretty useless in PvE. Very few things inflict Madness or Sleep, and even then it's usually very avoidable. PvP can be a different story, but if you want one in your back pocket just in case while exploring a new area, Immunity and Robustness are going to be substantially more relevant. Even Vitality is likely to be more critical than Focus, given there are, you know, actual common enemies that apply it as their primary form of attack.
I use seals at low level but people should also consider that if the enemy has a weapon with 2 or more damage types then the math really show that the seals fuck you up good, so yea..... I advise people to do as they want but if you are level 80 or above I really really don't recommend them unless you doing some really fancy stuff or you checked your math
Very nice video man! Although there is one thing about the Soreseal that you didn't cover in your analysis and I feel like it's super important to understand their opportunity cost. Basically, in Elden Ring the damage negation stat (I'll call it DN from now on for simplicity) has diminishing return the higher it gets. So, for example, when wearing am heavy armor set you should get 30% DN but instead you end up getting only 25%. This is when the interaction with the Soreseal comes into play: the -15% DN debuff that you get when equipping a Soreseal takes into account your "nominal" DN and not your actual one with diminishing return. So, to go back to the previous example: if you equip a Soreseal in the same conditions as before, it applies its -15% DN debuff to the 30% "nominal" DN, so you end up with 30% - 15% = 15% total DN instead of the expected 25% - 15% = 10% total DN. Which means that equipping a Soreseal while having high DN effectively reduces the penalty of the Soreseal because your lowered DN gets affected less by the diminishing return. Considering that diminishing return does not apply to flat defense, considering that you gain some flat defense when equipping a Soreseal because of your increased stats and considering that with buffs and spells you can increase your DN by quite a lot, I think one could make a solid argument for equipping a Soreseal at higher DN values if they value the stat boost it provides. What do you think? I know I'm late to the party but I'd like to hear your opinion on this. There is also the possibility that I misunderstood something in the way damage negation is calculated and ended up with a completely wrong interpretation. Knowing From Software calculations it's actually quite probable lol
Took that into account already, which is why we're using average of 27% negation as "base" because that is a reasonable average that most PVP builds will strive for. What you are missing is marginal increases to negation makes negation better rather than worse, so a flat 15% increase/decrease also does not suffer from diminishing returns (i.e gaining a flat 10% negation when your base negation is 80% is more effective than gaining the same flat 10% negation when your base negation is 20%. The thing is, I messed up the calc in the vid - check pinned comment. Negation is multiplicative) Also, defense does suffer from diminishing returns, which is why 15 extra levels of defense isn't worth much at RL 125.
@@Chrightt I see. While I do understand that the marginal benefit gets higher and higher as your DN increases (with an 80% DN a flat +10% means taking 50% less damage indeed) I completely missed the pinned comment. Thanks for the info!
For some reason, youtube messed up bad with this video :(
200+ old comments are missing (not sure if they're just held for review or something, so I'll re-write this in case my old pinned comment doesn't come back)
#1 Video not made considering hardswaps. With hardswaps some talismans are better.
#2 I know cat talisman does negate fall damage if you fall within that 4m range :P It was a joke in the vid
#3 Soreseal math slightly incorrect as I accidentally forgot to do it multiplicatively when I changed the example
0.73 (27 negation) * 1.15 = 0.84
1900/0.84 = 2261 so it slightly wins by EHP vs Heirloom (and also consider a few points of def leveling bonus, although this is more negligible at 125+)
However, remember the test is skewed very much in favor of soreseals because I'm assuming pure raw HP when stats should be more evenly spread out. Overall, you still want to avoid soreseals at 125+ They are good talismans at lower levels though.
UGH TH-cam RESTORE THE COMMENTS!
I think the best thing about the Soreseals is that with both equipped, two Heirloom/Millicent's Prosthesis talismans, Godrick's rune, Grafted Greatsword, Commoner's Robe, and Silver Tear Mask, you can be sitting at a comfortable level 140 stats-wise whilst still RL1.
Hey guy, just wanted to throw some flowers you way. You're by far the best Elden Ring channel I've had the pleasure of stumbling into.
Initially I was thrown a bit off by the low audio quality and your somewhat lackluster speech skill, and I felt a bit sad because the actual effort put into these videos are waaaaay beyond what some other folks throw out there in a sleak package, and therefore get most of the attention.
Very happy to say that you and the audio quality have improved continously, and leagues beyond the starting point. You already get the accolades from people who know their shit (I ain't one of them), but this'll defo get other folks to listen up and pay notice.
I know it may be a silly proposition, but might I suggest you remaster/redo some of them earlier ones (in terms of audio). I know, I know, it takes time and wouldn't necessarily improve the actual "content", but for someone who stumbles into you for the first time who has an attention span slightly worse than mine, it could make the difference between staying or leaving, and you deserve the attention.
Anyways, thanks for the stats and analysis, and keep on making great content!
@Chrightt- Goodmorning sir, I pray this comment finds you well and in good spirits!
I had a bow question for you sir! Additionally, I apologize if a bow weapon class video is in the works or if I missed an already existing one elsewhere contained within another video.
I am running an arcane hybrid caster who would like a reliable ranged weapon to better conserve FP or to fallback on when FP is completely spent.
Is the serpents bow a better option for me vs. A typical bow with the barrage weapon art while using status inflicting arrows? Or would a dedicated bow build with a barrage focused bow perform more reliably than an arcane build using a serpents bow and it's mighty shot?
I actually do believe that Radagon's Soar Seal can be effective if you are wearing very heavy armor as 40 percent damage neagtion also negates 40 percent of the drawback of the Soar Seal (Only 9% damage increase). It takes a very specific build tough that has to benefit from all stats a lot (Strange Quality Build). So for almost all people that wear them, they shouldn't but the answer is IMO not a simple yes or no even at meta PvP levels. Marika's Sore Seal is obviously always ass, as no caster can benefit from Arcane, Faith and Intelligence at once.
@@tinminator8905 it's still 15% more damage, regardless of your prior absorption.
Crucible Knot feels like a preventative measure to a bow meta that never was
FromSoft loves overbearing nerfs on random items and spells that no world would’ve ever been OP.
@@hatefulgaming1800 Fromsoft's Multiverse of Meta
DS2 had the infinite headshot stunlock but virtually nobody managed to pull it off
@@Matoro342 And it also had an anti-headshot item, interestingly enough.
Apparently, melee weapons can also headshot. I've heard that that is part of why Giant Hunt deals so much damage, though i can't confirm the statement.
Soreseals (specifically Radagon’s) can carry you trough the early game, but once you develop your build, you should look for a replacement. There, skipped you a math lecture.
Exactly, plus in PVP the soreseal works against you even more.
But I like math lol
The math is interesting but it neglects a key factor. That factor is... does taking more damage per swing reduce the amount of swings needed to kill you? If the answer is no, and the Soreseal lets you diversify your build into a stronger hybrid, then they're still valuable. When people focus too much on theoretical EHP comparisons, they often forget that being left with 50 HP vs being left with 65 HP after a combo still leaves them one-shot to a follow-up. He uses the same argument that players were using with regards to the Prisoner's Chain in DS3 and the end product was the same: if it still takes me 5 hits to die, then there's no reason not to get free stats if I'm a hybrid build.
honestly just use radagons soarseal cause I was too lazy to level my strength 5 levels for my nagakiba lol
I trust math, not some random opinion on the net.
_ALWAYS_ quickly equip Gold Scarab right after killing a boss. There is a delay before you get the souls, so you can always get extra from bosses.
Idk, I feel like you get enough runes already. I usually end up at level 150+ by the time I finish a playthrough without any grinding so I’d definitely be over levelled if I did that
@@squidwardstesticles5914 If you play the game on only one character through multiple NG cycles, gold scarab is the best talisman in the game
"Sometimes, defense is your best offense." Yep, I remember banging my head against Fume Knight in DS2 before, trying all the damage-buffs I could, before I stopped suddenly and went, "Let's try high defense instead." Beat him right away...
If your enemy deals 2 damage and you take 1. You'll win eventually
Funny because my solution to him was strip and fight him rolling
"Be like water" lol yeah switching it up is always the way to tackle challenges when one way ain't working in the souls Bourne games. As these game force to to "find more than one way to skin a cat" so to speak lol
Elden Ring has a lot of hard to avoid damage, particularly late game. I was wearing almost no armor and going for as much damage as possible, but boss fights were frustrating because I would get killed by an attack chain very easily. Swapping some talismans to protection and equip load, and wearing better armor really helped. Technically, I only take 25% less damage than before, but it's the difference between being 1-2 shot and being 3-4 shot. Put it another way: It's going from 1 hit per hp flask to 2 hits per hp flask.
Pretty much how I beat Malenia on my blind run. I took Ironjar Aromatics and face tanked my way through her fight with jumping R2's and the Blasphemous Blade.
Can't out heal my damage when you can't stunlock or damage me all that much.
Marika's Soreseal is made so much worse by the fact that it's in the Haligtree, too... by the time you can even reach it, there's no way it's gonna be a good idea for your build. Oh, and great breakdown as always!
whereas you can get radagon’s in the first 30 minutes of gameplay
@@bomes2084 Yeah, just be wary of Bats
@@TJ-kv3fv who cares about being wary of bats
Spend runes and suicide run straight to it
Go ahead, kill my tiny weak character
I have already won
@@TJ-kv3fv
and rats
@@TJ-kv3fv don't even have to be that wary, if you sprint straight through the room and just climb the ladder quickly you most likely don't even get hit
One interesting thing about the Blessed Dew Talisman that is worth mentioning (kind of) is that you can spam equip/unequip to heal up since it heals as soon as it equips and you don't want to wait.
The mage crowns are much more effective.
The talisman spam gives maybe 6 to 8 hp a second. Not worth waiting
True, works also in older games. Same with shields that have regen effect.
Blessed dew talisman is all about those times when you need to conserve resources (flasks and/or FP) because you dont want an area to respawn.
Same with warming stones.
@@erikenn Helmet swap is a broken glitch, not intended.
@@Sjjsjjsjsjjeju4882 k
Another hidden bonus to the sore seals and icons is the defense bonus you get from the levels themselves despite the absorption penalty
This is especially effective at low levels, where the static bonuses could go as far as to supersede the absorption penalty for all weaker attacks. At those moments you literally gain 20 free stat points for no penalty, which is (IIRC) the biggest single stat point giving ring in souls history. Past midgame, though, it starts to rapidly get worse and worse.
i dont think it will really work that way at any level. Stats only increase your defense whereas armour and talismans can increase and lower your damage negation. Defense is just a straight subtraction from the damage coming in and a few stat levels will at most be giving you like idk maybe 10 extra defense. And its usually somewhere in the 100s at low levels so ur taking off 10 or so extra damage from an attack while also adding 15 PERCENT more damage. So ya that might be enough if we are talking about some of the weakest attacks in the game but anything else it’s not gonna be enough to negate the extra damage.
consistently the best youtuber when it comes to full, intense, mathematical breakdowns. love you chrighttt 💙
Having higher max stamina is mainly useful for PvE situations like attacking more in a burst on stance-broken enemies, spamming more sorceries in general and a few specific moments like being able to more aggressively chase Fire Giant & Elden Beast without running out of stamina for attacks by the time you reach them.
Yeah, but.... intentional or not, you can prime stamina back into your bar by doing a running crouch/uncrouch.
Marika's soreseal is pretty bad, since you can only get it late game. And you're most likely past level 100.
Radagon soreseal is Great, since you can get it easily early game when you're around level 10-50 it's highly effective. And most other good Talisman aren't available either.
However both are very useful for spell/weapon testing. To meet certain requirements without respecing or leveling up.
I use Marika's when I'm farming rare weapon/consumable drops
I got clandestinely lucky in my first playthrough, having no real soulslike experience.
It was a slog to get through the fort in Caelid at level 40, but Radagon's soreseal gave me 20 extra stat points, so I could wield the golden halberd easily. Also found just the right somber stones to upgrade it to +8, giving me a weapon that could do 770ish damage before I even set foot in the lakes.
That playthrough had a very... interesting early and mid-game.
Marika's is mostly bad because it's almost impossible to use all of the stats.
Most I've ever gotten out of Marika's is three useful stats on an Arc/Fth build, and while Crightt does say that the defense loss isn't worth it for 15 levels, I'd say that's the borderline of worth from an experience standpoint on a second playthrough. If you're getting one-shot or two-shot by things that you feel shouldn't be doing that, then swap to one of the single-stat boosters instead for a while, which is something I absolutely did. I rocked enough Mnd to summon Dung Eater after +5, enough Fth to cast the rot flower after +5 and a flask, and 60 Arc after the +5, so all 15 of those points were points I could invest elsewhere while still adding value to my build. Outside of builds that use all 4 on Radagon's or at least 3 on Marika's, it's a hard sell, and you should probably stick to the Heirlooms otherwise. If you're only using 2 stats, adding 5 levels and swapping to an Heirloom permanently is perfectly viable, especially if you're a PvE player.
I will say though that Marika's plus Mimic mask is the best Arcane boost you can get and is great for farming items when combined with the Silver Scarab and is good to grab even for that alone.
@@MasterofLaziness Yeah I have Marika's + silver tear mask permanently equipped while farming for stuff. Hell, since some of the droprates in this game are absolutely fucked, I even switch over to godrick's greatrune at one point because getting a total of 18 free arcane was worth it imo (and rune arcs aren't really much of a bottle neck so I never minded "wasting" them for farming lol).
I had no idea the sacrificial twig was better used when you have already died, I wish I had known this before! Good video!
Yep, same here. Could've saved me a bunch of runes!
Probably not a popular option, but I've started using the Physick flask that has the same effect as the twigs and just chug it before an encounter that I'm not confident about, and any bosses. I almost never have to go and collect my runes now unless I just have a stupid random death. Also good for any jump puzzle areas (like reaching the 3 fingers), which is why I started doing it in the first place.
@@LordDraco3 when I found that Physik Tear I already knew it was gonna be a main stay in my build on my first run. Lone behold I still use on: Run # Whatever I'm On.
Still wish Sacrificial Twigs were craftable... Like honestly would that have been too much to ask?
Hah, I used it that way without even testing it(intentionally at least. I did accidently confirm it works that way). Still feel silly that I needed to though. It was during my first run and I was trying to get items by dropping down dangerous heights. Ahhh... the number of twigs I used up...
@@nathreetimesnineequalstwen7172 Lo and behold :D
I was testing the axe talisman earlier today and when I realised that I had to fully charge an R2 for a 10% bonus I immediately ditched it.
claw is where it’s at for the really big bonks
@@IliumGaming definitely claw talisman gang
I feel like the roar medallion is bugged or there is an oversight or something. It is strictly worse than the shard of Alexander and it simply doesn't boost any breath attacks, even though it says it does.
Yeah... me too. If the current roar medallion is intended, it is such a poor design.
Roar medallion increases heavy attack damage by 15% when used with attacks that change your heavy attack like War Cry and Barbaric Roar. Useful with the Axe Talisman and Spiked Cracked Physick. Having a Highland Axe in your off hand gives a 7.5% boost to roars like the Roar Medallion. It's possible to make a build where going all in on a heavy attack will do around as much damage as a crit. I prefer using War Cry over Barbaric Roar as your heavy attack becomes a running attack, and the stance damage on Barbaric Roar seems to be very low
Beast roar ash of war.
That’s all it helps with really
@@atomick2398 barbaric roars attack string true combos for 2 hits on any part of the swing on battle hammers from what I’ve tested. Braggarts roar is my favorite because it boosts your stats so much and gives you a really high poise and damaging r2
While, yes, the roar medallion is strictly worse than the Shard of Alexander, keep in mind that you can get the medallion at the very beginning of the game in Limgrave, while you can't get the shard until all the way in Farum Azula, not to mention the fact that you need to follow his whole questline -- which is missable, by the way! Unless it's possible to get the shard early by just killing Alexander as soon as you meet him, but even if that's true, then why would you do that, you monster?
I continue to value having your style of analysis on hand as I go to consider builds for a new playthrough!
Glad my guides help!
I think soreseals are actually multiplicative with armor, not additive, so in your example the soreseal one actually has 1900/0.73 * 0.85 = 2212 EHP. Also stat points gives you defense, so the actual EHP will be a bit higher.
Yes, you're right. I added it in the pinned comment right when I scanned the video. Ugh, totally screwed up when I changed the example, but the conclusion remains roughly the same due to investing into one stat alone being a skewed test for soreseals.
Thanks for pointing it out though!
As somebody who very often changed loadout without respecing, on my end I Radagon's Soreseal is still usefull sometimes, as a way to increase to equip load and more heavy Elden Blink, and to meet the requirements, mainly for the one-eyed shield (Elden Ring gives you cannons the Powder Kegs could only dream of).
Bless the Powder Keg's souls
I would almost be disappointed I chose to do an arcane build my first playthrough if it didn’t lead me to eventually finding this channel. Another righteous video with exceedingly useful maths and info. Keep up the prime work my dude
I did an quality with some arcane build,pretty fun.
Like 40str 40dex 30arc
I use sore seals at low levels, and once I hit 40ish vigor, and 20 str/dex/end I drop it for something else. I use them because I feel the trade off, with radagon’s because marika’s is kinda bleh and really late game, the trade off at low levels is worth it, you are lvl 20, and now you have 20 extra levels in health, endurance, strength and dexterity. It’s not perfect but now you are effectively lvl 40 with the trade off of taking a bit more damage.
In the end it all boils down to personal preference. No one is wrong for using certain talismans, nor is anyone right for using other ones. Elden ring has this great thing about it where it doesn’t matter as much what you do because you can be great without min/maxing for the meta. Have fun, and remember, hugs from Fia are free.
Yesss! I was hoping for this, thank you!
Also I noticed something funny with the blessed dew talisman, when you equip it, it immediately gives you the 2 hp, so if you unequip it and equip it rapidly, you can heal significantly more health... At the cost of your fingers, and inability to play for a couple minutes... But it can heal you for free!
if you're rapid swapping to regen the glintstone crowns trick is better. Rapidly un- and re-equipping erdtrees favor can give you infinite stamina while sprinting though.
@@aptom203 they should call that the hat trick
Also I don't have the glintstone hats, and cbb to get them lol
Ngl at least once in singleplayer I have waited out poisoning using this because I didn't want to go back and heal or whatever lol. If you click fast enough you'll heal faster than the poison can hurt you 😂
what I might add on the cerulean amber medallion, only past 220 FP does using it gain you more than 5 levels worth, so you'd be better off investing 4 levels in mind and using one of the four +5 talismans instead.
Yes, this sort of comparison will be made in part 2 of the video where I make many comparisons!
You can level up talisman? Or they are drops? (Yes...noob here)
@@guesswho1047 You can find upgraded talismans as drops! You can't upgrade talisman, and don't worry. We were all newbies.
@@Chrightt Thank you so much for replying! This video is extremely helpful!
I just want to thank you for all your Elden ring breakdown videos. They’ve helped massively in giving me the tools to build my own builds instead of trying to Google search for builds and getting those idiotic clickbait builds (BECOME AN ELDEN GOD) or some dime a dozen builds that have trash stat distribution. I’ve never had more fun making builds armed with the knowledge on how to min max to suit my needs. Hoping to see more and more out of you!
from level 71 to 91 you get 1 DEFENSE AND 1 RESISTANCE PER LEVEL
from level 91 to 111 you get 1 RESISTANCE PER LEVEL
if you use soreseals to close these gaps they are much more worth it
Blessed Dew Talisman was quite nice for my first playthrough, where I was taking my time to explore everything and try to get all treasure in each area. The slower pace of exploration meant the talisman usually had enough time to top off my health, and saved me from using flasks out of combat.
My brain hurts. I love coming to your channel for in depth stats on what is effective and what isn’t. Heck for the last week or two I’ve been recommending quite a few of your videos to people on Reddit when they ask about how some things work like in depth soft caps, best staves, fun build (your night wielder was fun!), and seals!
Thanks for recommending my videos! Hopefully my videos made some confusing points understandable and potentially settle some popular questions for you!
blessed dew talisman has helped me in bosses and in stressful enemy encounters. There's been more than a few occasions where I took a hit and ended up having just a few HP left.
Blessed Dew is the perfect piss break talisman thank u for mentioning this
agree. love the dragon greatshield. its almost a must in pve at higher new game + if you dont run heavy armor that is. vs bosses i often pair it with black flame protection since most of the really dangerous attacks are all physical based. most elemental attacks can be avoided easily but vs dragons i prefer the specific incantation for their damage type, cause of the aoe elemental oneshot attacks. overall i would say lord of blood exultation, alexander and claw talisman are the best damage increasing talismans by far. old lord talisman for buffs is a must and imo the duration should be buffed to 50% at least. who the heck wants to reapply buffs during a boss fight. surely nobody
The Scorpion talismans are extremely powerful in PvE. I ignored it since I though split damage was terrible but Flame and Lightning affinity are really good. ChaseTheBro argued that Lightning affinity is really good in PvP since lightning defense doesn't scale with a stat, in combination with environmental factors such as rain and water.
Yea! They also have a place in PvP for glass cannon builds. Some caster or lightweight shield/parry builds could definitely make use of them
Nah split damage is vastly more powerful in elden than single. Single only wins at low level, which is consequently, the only time it makes any sense to use a soreseal. Low level.
@@DKarkarov it took until 50 strength at about level 125 for heavy to surpass fire. Defenses aside lighting and fire are purposely designed to give you more base damage.
@@Name-ql7jf no I don't. Have you tested at over level 300? I can tell you haven't. Let me guess you think STR is a good build too?
@@Name-ql7jf Your failing hard. You are also very wrong on quality. But I don't really care, someone being wrong on the internet especially in relation to from software rpgs is nothing new.
I'm not the best at math but it's good to see someone confirm to not use Soreseals past RL 100. lol.
Thank you for your hard work! Understanding all of the underlying mechanics makes character building so much more fun. I knew those soreseals weren't really worth it when I tested them.
My pleasure!
Happy to know that I figured out heirlooms are better than soreseals quite a while ago and have been building without sorrseals. Once I looked at the drop in damage reduction I was like... NOPE!
Also yes, Dragoncrest Talisman is GOD for facing Malenia. It even decreases the amount of HP she sucks from you lol.
Great video!
Yeah but I’ve a question why it’s nerf to the ground for pvp?
@@Niktuono I assume because of the fingerprint shield being broken mixed with the bull goat armor. Unkillable build.
@@lionheart4424 I understand but that is really specific.
Wait until u find the dragoncrest greatshield
TLDR: Soreseals are VERY worth it through the early game, still worth it through midgame, and still not terrible for PVE later game depending on your build.
If you wear them in PVP though past level 70, you're going to get absolutely wrecked by the multiplicative damage stacking, causing many ashes of war to one shot you with plenty to spare.
It’s really weird that they put a item in the game that is specifically made for twinks. Seems like they’ve done nothing to get rid of twinking. They should’ve got rid of those items and removed the ability to drop equipment for other players.
@@Garl_Vinland in ER it’s a five minute horse ride to go get the Sore Seal, seven minutes if you stop to get the beast repellent torch so the rats don’t bother you.
@@rashiro Truth be told, the level of those enemies suggest you shouldnt be there that early. Also, good luck getting Marika's Soreseal.
Also Radagon's Soreseal is only good if youre wearing armor which, lets be honest are the end game locked ones. Like Veterans.
@@Garl_Vinland Marika's Soreseal is also pointless by the time you make it to the Haligtree.
Armor or not the RSS boost vastly outweighs the 15% extra damage at lower levels. And if you really want to be sweaty about it, you can trot Torrent to the Bestial Sanctum and drop down for the Dragoncrest Shield talisman.
Margit is an easy kill, and there's your second talisman slot. Now you're only taking 5% extra damage for the RSS boost.
Suggested or not, RSS is easily acquired by everyone. And reality is that after their first playthrough people are spending the first hour on a new character grabbing RSS, seeds and tears for 12 Flasks at +10, the two miner bells, and their primary weapon.
What's actually suffering here? The few brand new players that run into a "twink" and get butchered below level 35? Those folks are going to get carved apart regardless, and represent less than 5% of the people I've seen on low level invasions. Once people make it Liurnia and explore a little the "twink" advantage is pretty much nonexistent.
99/100 invasions in Limgrave and Stormveil are a host with two password phantoms in endgame equipment with status effect weapons.
@@rashiro Thats what Im saying. Its a twink item made for twinks.
These games are notoriously "offline until level 80" after you get to a point BECAUSE of these things existing. Its not fun, even for seasoned players because they basically need to either spent 20 hours smurfing through the game, or they need friends to mule the items to them.
How to fix low level PvP:
-Delete the soreseals/prisoners chains from the game.
-Have the amazing laser weapons locked behind absurdly high stat requirements.
-Get rid of password matchmaking. You wanna play with a friend? have them level along with you and put their sign in a bush somewhere like the good old days of DS1.
-Give certain spells "tiers" so they arent available at low levels. and have spells scale with catalyst level. No more Dark beads.
-Get rid of item dropping for other players. There exists no other purpose for this other than smurfing/griefing. "Item trades" werent a thing since Dark Souls 1.
-Bring back Soul Memory. DS2 is the only game that didnt have smurfs EVER. Until the devs caved and gave us the Agape Ring. SURPRISE, Twinks showed up because of it. Soul memory didnt even effect the meta level because of how it scaled into the millions. It only made sure Twinks couldnt invade at Giants.
Its not surprising though. The same people who complained about it also complained about Poise being absent in DS3. Well, its back and wouldnt you know it? Havel Moms and Giant Dads are back, only this time its some dude in a funny hat and Veterans Armor casting spells. Its honestly all just an alt right plot.
Great vid there, cant wait for part 2
Hello there, JeeNiNe! :D I've seen your PVP vids!
Entertainingly, at low enough vigour Radagon's soreseal can negate its own drawback because the health boost provided by the +5 vigour (about 112 at 11 vigour) is greater than 15% of your maximum health (about 65 at 11 vigour). In this niche scenario it is better than the strength and dexterity heirloom talismans.
That's generally why all my builds pick up Radagon's Soreseal right out of the gate.
Man, this is absolutely mind blowing. You changed my entire talisman loadout. Somehow I made it to level 139 in this game without truly understanding meta game fully. Thank you deeply
Glad to help! There are other resources on my channel if you want to make your journey smoother or min-max for PVP. Hope you like them :)
17:37 It's also worth mentioning that swapping from Crimson Amber to Blessed Dew after getting hit is a good thing to do in duels to get some HP back as the Crimson Amber Tallisman is basically useless after you get hit and if you don't have any source of regen.
Ah, yes. Forgot to mention this is assuming no hardswap. With hardswap some of these definitely find more use.
Same thing with the Primal GlintStone Talisman. You can use it to reduce the massive cost of Blessing of the Erdtree and once you take it off the regen will fix you right back up in no time. Works even better if you have the Old Lords.
@@Chrightt In general yea constant hrdswapping might not be something most of the players are going to do, but in some cases, especially this one, I think even more casual players could easily see the value it has
@@JD-kl9xw menuing is my bane
Longtail Cat Talisman is not a lie, it says it renders the wearer immune to from Fall *Damage,* but not Fall *Death.*
This is a good and well presented video. Some minor constructive feedback: it would have looked a little slicker and been a little clearer to consistently use the images/names for the highest level of each talismans (or if going for the base level ones, to explicitly reference the different levels and what numbers they give); as it is I think you are using highest level numbers with the base level image some of the time, but not all the time (and the description for one of the horn charms too had the image for the base one but the description for the +1 version). But still a really clear video and good maths for EHP!
Sorry, I grabbed the images from the wiki, and they only have base versions unless the special versions were different.
Crimson Seed is great when paired with the ritual talismans late game, it essentially ensures each flask fully heals, getting the ritual buff to come back.
I'm loving it on NG+ it basically says you never have to pop 2 flasks to avoid the threat of a 1 tap (even 2 tap against anything, but the most brutal).
Went from thinking it was a straight dogshit talisman to being hard pressed to swap it out of my set up.
A good way to think of the soreseals is THEY MAKE SOME NICHE BUILDS POSSIBLE but MAKE NO ALREADY POSSIBLE BUILD STRONGER. it’s for variety and fun, not power and optimization.
This is what makes them and the heirlooms amazing in earlygame where you don't have high rune gains to powerlevel. It allows you to focus on a stat rather than spread out your levels for stat requirements.
I dont even think they make niche builds more of a possibility. You can play basically anything without them. You'd just have to give up some other stats (like vig/mind/end). If you required some seriously hybrid stat investment, I'd STILL not use them unless I was, say, under level 60.
also they basically enable RL1 runs
@@stevenluoma1268 No some builds are simply impossible without the use of a soreseal. One of mine at 138 is a good example of that. The extra damage you take does suck a little but if i was getting 1 shot chances are even without it i was getting 1 shot XD
As an observation, I think the bow talisman works with spells that have a drop off due to simulating gravity on the projectile.
Maybe the talismans bonus applies to the projectile after it leaves your character and just increases distance traveled before gravity based drop off.
The essential talisman for the "endgame bosses one shot me build".
Nice breakdown, clarification on the Radagon's and Godfrey's was enough for me to not auto-include them in anything, really. Optimal repeated casting is alot better than using a talisman slot, anyway.
The fact that the greatshield talisman is so unbelievably nerfed in pvp actually broke me down a little, I used it so often and so confidently, just to find out it did bumblefuck nothing
Taking 5% less damage quite often adds an extra hit before you die, turning a lot of fights around. The other guy just has to die, doesn't matter if you also die.
@@acrab6527 I know, but these "A little bit more defense and I'd still be alive" situations are so rare, that you're better off using something else.
At this time, PvP is broken to the point where either you get one/two shotted or the enemy gets one/two shotted, unless you're using something off-meta to have fun, In which case, good luck... I guess...
@@LooterGameplays You must be getting different invaders.
Mine are like Chright's last video. 3 minutes of quick pokes, throwing knives and glintstone darts. A dozen little hits as either whittling you down or trying to proc a status.
That or just trading. If the enemy has to hit you more times than you have to hit them, you win.
@@acrab6527 I mean, I am doing high-level PvP, so maybe that's why the experiences are different. Most of the people I fight usually use the RoB, or Glintstone Pebble, Lion's Claw etc etc and can deal stupid amounts of damage in an instant.
I don't think it's because of the RL I am at tho, these things are broken in and of themselves, not because of a specific build that makes them super strong.
Also, status are as common in high level as META, it's actually kinda stupid.
Blessed Dew talisman is great for exploration, as you sort of pointed out. It isn't useful during a fight, but if you've lost a couple hundred HP in skirmishes and you're walking around afterwards in low to moderate danger, it is a great way to get back to full health without having to use a crimson flask. It is much better early game than late, but it is easy to get really early.
My own opinion is that Sorseals are for meeting minimum requirements and not much else. The damage increase negates any health benefit. There are better talismans for boosting damage. It's just the illusion of higher stats. It's "20 levels worth of stats" but only if you would put points in those stats anyway. The physical sorseal is about +200 health, +8 stamina, +8 equip load, +30 AR. All for about +12.5% net extra damage taken. The extra damage doesn't matter if you don't get hit, but then the extra health doesn't matter either, and you can get more damage than +30 AR from using a specialized talisman such as the Claw, the Axe, one of the exultations. If you don't have alternatives for damage then I guess it's decent. I used it for the equip load, but once I had raised my endurance by 5 I stopped.
I heard so much mixed information on the seals. Thank you for showing the math! I'd have believed they increase damage taken by 7% without this video for a long time. It also explains why my mage feels so much tankier with some medium armor. I try not to get hit, but fighting in small rooms does result in some damage for me still. I still think I'm doing quite well for the first time using a controller, but it's not like I don't have a build advantage...
unless I fuck up. Like by using a soreseal to gain stats for a optional katana I don't really need!
IMO, greatshield talisman should have boosted stability by 10% of the REMAINING stability, making it better with small shields (although still not great due to low stability overall) and worse with good stability shields (although still improved)
Ever since I discovered the Volcano Pot does DoT, and only takes 2 volcanic stones to craft...it's been my go-to bomb to drop on enemies heads. You can easily farm volcanic stones at the Primeval Sorcerer Azur site of grace, there are five that spawn right where the NPC is/used to be, and they give 1-2 stones per pick up. In an hour, while watching some Netflix, I had over 1000 stones :)
The only time I felt myself using soreseals was for low RL challenge runs/pvp builds. A bit of food for thought below regarding such:
The extra investment at RL11 or RL25, for instance, would help me meet thresholds for weapon stat requirements, while maximizing my vigor.
Given this video, I'd need to run it through a calculator to see their EHP, but I guesstimate that they may become profitable at low RL since you cant afford to increase your vigor to anywhere near 60 vigor.
That said, it may still be possible for crimson amber and erdtree to be better. However, given how endgame the +2's are for both, compared to how easy it is to acquire radagon's soreseal, I feel like it still points me to use the soreseal instead. Further testing would be needed to gauge the effectiveness between radagon's soreseal and the +1 versions of crimson amber and erdtree, which can both be acquired before entering the endgame areas. (the obvious counterpoint of muling might come up, so I'll just jump preemptively in to say that muling endgame talismans is unfair, thus I'm not considering it in planning a low RL build)
Though you do 100% have a point that if there is only 1 stat you require a bump in at low RL to meet a requirement, it would increase your survivability to use an heirloom instead. Stat requirements tend to be the make or break of early game builds, so its a BIG tossup on how many stats you need to bump from any base class option, on a case by case basis. (There may even be a very niche reason to have a soreseal AND an heirloom if you were going for the memes, but one should probably rethink their item choice if this case comes up, as it limits your OTHER talisman slots)
Shabriri's Woe is pretty useful for tanky builds doing co-op and/or bosses so I think its worth more than a mention. You can easily distract and tank the boss or other enemies for the host while they and/or other phantoms melt them down. I found it very effective with a STR build two-handing great shields and it was especially fun for fights like spirit Godfrey. His attacks wash over your cold slab of stone like a warm breeze on a wee babe's cheeks as you bash his shins in with guard counters. Throwing knives are also very useful for keeping aggro even while other players are ripping chunks of health off, the boss will turn right around even if they're mid-combo.
I’m so used to my seals on me they’ve become part of my build and when ever I take them off it’s like a weight of preventable death has been lifted, tbh there not bad there are some spells that help with damage negation and dragon greatsheild talisman
I like to call level 70-90 my 'soreseal withdrawal' period
Radagons soreseal can def be worth it based on your level and ability to play the game
I know its probably a meme/joke about the cat talisman.. but maybe some people will take it seriously. it at least negates all fall damage from survivable drops
Utterly useless
Nice job on this - it's very thorough, specific, and easy to parse.
Glad it was helpful!
It’s crazy how I can sit down and learn this with ease but school teachers could never. I applaud thee chrightt.
Same but I feel it's often the other 'students' fault and we are defo more interested in this game than school stuff. Usually the same for the teacher lol.
In all fairness I've had some pretty good/chill teachers so I can't complain *too* much... but there is always one. Or two...
Bruh if you cant put effort into your life outside of games thats hardly your teachers fault. Fix that shit before you’re an adult.
Side note on Arrow's Reach Talisman, because arrows experience damage fall off, past 5 yards or so it acts as a damage buff. And if you aren't using your bow from far away, what are you doing with it?
😂 Barrage bleed builds I guess. Definitely really good for PVE. The two arrow talismans are pretty much a sure slot. PVP-wise most people will chase you to kingdom come anyway.
@@Chrightt Yeah I'd imagine that it works best in PVE. As far as I can tell Black and barrage ash Serpent are the best bows for PVP. I do think that it works on the Ballestas and Great Bows so I'd be suppressed if the snipers haven't slotted it into their builds.
I think the soreseals serve a good purpose. But higher levels u actually suffer from them since the damage number u take is a lot higher, and that multiplier is not worth it just for a few stats difference. The clutch talismans are 50/50 at higher levels also, depending on how u build.
I'd like to also add, radagon soreseal is a great way to meet wep requirements early on so u can focus on what ever stats u need to work on for early investment.
I did the math even further on soreseals and cam to the conclusion that the nullpoint was somewhere around sl76.
however, I would have really appreciated if you could have done a more precise analysis for let's say sl15, sl35 and sl50 for soreseals
This is largely dependent on what the soreseals enable you to use (typically strongest on an intelligence build that still needs the str/dex) up to around 100 assuming duels (so no HP pots). For lower levels at 50 and under, there is no doubt soreseals are pretty much a direct slot because of how early the curve is and how much % bonus you will be getting from it.
Yeah at 35 vigor, the marginal 5 points of vigor from the soreseal gives you more than 15% extra HP so the other extra stats are essentially free. Absolutely amazing for low level invasion builds.
I actually heavly disagree with marikas soreseal being superior. why?
cause you won't be able to utilze arcane, faith and int at once much. cause lik3 each of them covers a different weapon category, whereas radagons soreseal perfectly covers all the melee weapons with additional hp, stermina/equip load!, strength and dex (to hit either str or dex weapon requirement!)
that's why I actually would say radagons > marikas (as far as my 650 hours of ER showed)
rest of video is great though, finally someone who acknowledges the power of stermina regen aswell as differentiating between pve and pvp usecase.
cause as far as I can tell pvp/duels is more about defense buffs instead of offense buffs.
cause it's way easier to get let's say +30% of a specific defense than it is to get +30% for offense. I will say you should preferably use offense buffs for pve only.
aswell as the buff duration. personally I would never go for anything below a 60 seconds buff.
16:36 I'm not bad at this game, I just have a heavy Crimson flask focused setup!
Something you didn’t mention is that having more stat points increases your defense so the 15% decrease in damage reduction is much lower. With the Soreseals you effectively get 20 extra levels which is much more than the Crimson Medallion’s 13 extra levels at 60 vigor. If you are solely using one damage stat it most likely isn’t worth it but, as someone who is using SoNaF in PVE, I’m going to keep using Soreseals.
This is assuming defence works exactly like dog3, which in er that is not the case. In ER absortion is king. However, another theory i have is that flat defence seems to matter very little and absorption a lot may be due to how huge damager number is in the late game. Because flat defence in early game matters more when it comes to actual reduction. I know this because i hate a fat tank character that wear all heavy armour and he does not give a shit about any attacks thats not from a downscaled phantom.
It's about 12.5%, which I would not call much lower that 15%.
@@garrick3727 hyperbole
I'm not sold on the soreseals being bad yet. It seemed the more natural mitigation I had, the less it reduced. If I am at 0, it's obviously -15%. But when I was at 31% negation it only dropped me to about 23%. Vigor is not the only measure of tankiness. The extra Endurance (and thus, equip load) allowed me to wear heavier gear. I also wore Great Jar's so it's not like they were swappable for the argument. I found I saved myself 2% negation from checking the above metrics by doing this. 2% is pretty big when you're just trying to ignore 15%. It would also give me 2-3 flat negation for everything and resistances. Which is something, considering my prior flat negation was 130-148 it was at worst a 1% increase.
Now, they *are* best for meeting requirements, this is true, but they still add some damage too. Given that after my natural negation I was really only sacrificing about 6% negation not including vigor increase I'd say the damage boost and easier requirements was worth it.
the evaluation is a bit wrong cause the value on the sorceal depend on the player skill, if you good and you evade everything or even most of the dmg then the loss of tankiness isnt a big deal, what truelly matter in the end should be the hit count threshold when you have to use a flask to keep you safe, for exemple if you could take 2 boss hit before having to heal, and equiping the sorceal only allow you 1 hit then it's really bad. If it doesnt change much well it's a big boost. If the sorceal help you reach 56 poise that also change everything.
I think we are missing a point for soreseals in PVE: bosses. Since a lot of bosses will kill you in 2-3 hits (unless you use bull-goat set or very specific defensive builds), many times you will be in the same 2-3 hits range with a soreseal or even with both, making them a great way of having that exttra boost to kill the boss faster.
Already taken into account. You would just use another talisman that would boost your damage by more than soreseals would, which there are plenty of options. A shame the comments are bugged out atm.
@@Chrightt I see, but that also means in that scenario heirlooms can also be discarded, because when there is no penalty in practice soreseals would always be superior to heirlooms. Am I getting it right?
@@pedja-yt You're a bit off. I'm measuring whether 15 points of extra stats is worth -15 reduction in damage. As it turns out, the effect is negative, meaning you hurt yourself more than you gained thus cutting into the "base 5 points" making soreseals worth less than +5 points of stats.
I also did the measurement for 5 points vs just raw HP (in which case we come out worse than Crimson Amber, but it does not mean that 5 points to help meet requirements or more damage/hp is unusable. It is, in fact, a better option than soreseals overall. So you can think of the conclusion as Hierlooms are worth 5 points of stats while soreseals are worth 4 points of stats after taking into account the reduction in negation, so Hierlooms are better. Remember, diminishing returns also hits soreseals harder than Hierlooms because you have more stats that are less effective.
@@Chrightt Yeah, I get that and I agree, it's better in general, what I'm saying is there are times when damage negation doesn't matter, like let's say I don't care if a hit takes 60% of my HP or 75%, it's 2 hits either way. In that case I don't see any possible benefit from heirlooms.
It’s not that huge of a boost though if I understood correctly
Solid video, i learned so much good stuff. And it also scratched that nagging feeling of not knowing how much 5 vigor whould offset some of the damage. :)
chrightt i respected you, i had you in great steem, then you do dirty my preciouss moon of nokstella, I WANT TO GO WITH PLACIDUSAX RUIN GOLDEN BARRIER GOLDEN FULGURANT BARREIR ALL THE ANCIENT LIGHNING INCANTATIONS ROTTEN BREATH AND THE COMBO OF ROCK SLING AND LIGHNING STRIKE, ITS NOT USELESS 10 slots are not enough...
Lol
Ah... I'm sorry. I bow down and pay my respects to the massive incantation overlord.
@@Chrightt *Humanity restored*
I've been explaining the EHP thing in a more roundabout way, by using an arbitrary hit (usually a 1k hit against 1440hp) and showing how your "hits until death" changes when your negation changes.
What I use it for is to showcase that while the claim is that "you gain less negation the more negation you have, and so stacking damage reduction is not efficient", you actually gain multiplicatively more survival, so stacking damage reduction becomes better the more you do it.
EHP absolutely showcases this too, but I feel that opening it up into an example drives the point home better for folks who're not that used to EHP.
One thing that neither of these highlight though, is the effect on flask healing.
When your negation is lower and HP pool is higher to compensate, while your EHP might remain the same, your flasks essentially become less effective.
You have a higher HP pool to heal, but you also take bigger hits, so you need to use more flasks to heal up.
It might not be a huge factor when figuring out what talismans to use, but if you keep running out of flasks then buffing up your negation could help out.
radagon's soreseal is the only viable soreseal unfortunately. there really isnt a single build that will make use of all 20 stats given by marika's soreseal. even with the stat hungry golden order build, the 5 arcane points give you nothing, so marika's soreseal only really gives you 10 points.
Just seen this video ,best video I have seen,explaining talismans .
I don't subscribe to a lot of channels but JESUS was this a great video. Great voice too. Thanks for the insight.
I think I only pretend to understand... Chrightt, plz, never stop doing quick summary opinion at the end!
This was super useful! Ditched the soreseal and now my build is tank cancer lol. As a Str/Fth build, I got the Erdtree Greatshield, Siluria's Spear, and a regen spell on some heavy AF armor that makes me look like a golden Legionaire (Radahn's Set, but the Tree Sentinel Helm).
Went with Ritual Shield talisman since I'll be regenerating HP behind the Erdtree Greatshield. I think Crimson Amber talisman ends up with technically slightly higher EHP, the hope is to re-use Ritual Shield by regenerating to full semi-frequently to reduce damage overall.
Also fun fact, unlike in DS3, extending the length of a regen spell actually gives you that much more healing! That means Blessing's Boon with Old Lord's Talisman gets you almost as much healing as Erdtree's Blessing, for half the FP cost! If you're willing to wait, the healing is pretty cheap!
This video is beyond amazing. Glad to see you're still doing the good work. Keep it up broski.
Thanks, will do!
Soreseals are fantastic for sure for at least one thing: RL1 runs.
After Radahn, you are basically guaranteed to get one-shot even with the best armor, anyway (two-shot if you use opaline tear).
So they stat buffs onpy benefit you and let you access way more tools
I like using Shabriri’s Woe when I’m a phantom so I can take agro from the enemies
26:00 I don't think this really gives the full picture though since stats like intelligence and strength also increase some of your resistances a little bit with each level. Which makes comparing just the vigor give an incomplete picture of how much tankier the soreseal makes you. It kind of makes the Crimson Amber Medallion looks better in comparison than it really is.
Thank you for your videos, I'm not really a subscriber because I don't need to see your new content, but you still provide a valuable resource that I've now watched a dozen of your videos. I love your approach to the breakdown in how to make a decision.
Godskin Cloth is amazing with power stanced daggers.
Since you say you aren't going into any more detail on them and didn't mention it in your overview, I want to say that Shabriri's Woe does have practical use if you're a player who regularly helps others out as a co-op phantom. It's basically the same logic as using it with the Mimic Tear, but you can structure your build around being a tank with much more specificity than most hosts do. Or just use it on any fight regardless of build where the key to victory more or less relies on a complicated one-shot mechanic that most hosts don't know how to avoid (like Malenia and Waterfowl Dance) so as long as you yourself know how to deal with those Shabriri's really can increase your odds of success simply by meaning the host gets targeted with those less.
Soreseal’s increase stats via levels. So they can be very effective early-mid game but get less effective as you level because they contribute a fixed amount, not a percentage.
Plan to replace them eventually.
PVP's where Conceiling Veil shines (pardon the pun): hardswap, crouch, Greatbow, Rain of Arrows AoW, L2, win. Even better when people are standing close to walls, the orbital gatling strike appears right above their heads: instadeath. Works even better with Golem's Great Arrow if you can stomach the farm (highest dmg, poise dmg, hits in aoe, got it all).
One small thing I would like to mention about the Blessed Dew talisman is that it acts like the Sun Princess ring in ds3, in the fact that it gives 2 hp when you equip it, not shortly afterwards, meaning that you can rapidly equip and un-equip it to gain health faster than 2hp per second. I don't know how much faster, but it is something that i think might be worth mentioning.
Also, I personally use it to top myself off between fights in the open world, as you shouldn't waste flasks that are going to try to keep going, as the flasks are more important than having one hit worth of more health in some cases.
This is how I use it, I equip it on my mage so if it get hit I can save my very liited Crimson flasks while I wander around.
@@Verbose_Mode Personally, i think it would be better to have the crimson seed talisman on during the fight, then switch to the blessed dew afterwards to get the healing without the other stuff. Either that, or just use the takers cameo to get heal on kill.
Mans mathing our brains out, sheeesh. Love it
Crucible scale talisman’s only real use is making Black Knife fights less infuriating
Fun fact about the blue feathered branchsword.
The hit that gets you under 20% will be reduced as well!
If your at 50% hp you will often get value without knowing it.
It was the same way in previous Darksouls with blue tearstone ring.
I've been running a heavy armor mage with low hp for laughs and found you can cheat vigor tests by using ritual shield + blue branch.
mind you while immune to oneshots anything can two shot you afterwards but the potential is there for shenanigans.
I knew that the soreseals were rarely worth it. I found it baffling that so many peeps on twitter were singing its praises when it just makes you more likely to die lmao
....I'm sorry to admit that I subbed as soon as I saw your cat icons pop up on screen!
The rest of the video was great, too! Very informative. 😸
So Soreseals bad on higher levels. Makes sense, think we guessed as much but its nice to have some measure of confirmation.
This video is awesome, I’ve been just going through all your videos I wish I knew this stuff sooner than my 5th play through! Helps pick talismans easier, glad I got some stuff right
Something worth pointing out about the Clarifying and Mottled Horns is that Focus is... pretty useless in PvE. Very few things inflict Madness or Sleep, and even then it's usually very avoidable. PvP can be a different story, but if you want one in your back pocket just in case while exploring a new area, Immunity and Robustness are going to be substantially more relevant. Even Vitality is likely to be more critical than Focus, given there are, you know, actual common enemies that apply it as their primary form of attack.
THANK YOU! Captions are so nice
Iirc the Longtail Cat's Talisman has updated text which explicitly excludes dying from great heights or something like that. Glad they fixed it
I use seals at low level but people should also consider that if the enemy has a weapon with 2 or more damage types then the math really show that the seals fuck you up good, so yea..... I advise people to do as they want but if you are level 80 or above I really really don't recommend them unless you doing some really fancy stuff or you checked your math
I read the thumbnail as “sequel or no” and thought it was a video determining the possible sequel to elden ring using math like some conspiracy theory
The moment I took my soreseal off I felt like I was surviving wayyy more battles
The enlightenment 😂
Perfumer's talisman got buffed so hard
Very nice video man!
Although there is one thing about the Soreseal that you didn't cover in your analysis and I feel like it's super important to understand their opportunity cost.
Basically, in Elden Ring the damage negation stat (I'll call it DN from now on for simplicity) has diminishing return the higher it gets. So, for example, when wearing am heavy armor set you should get 30% DN but instead you end up getting only 25%.
This is when the interaction with the Soreseal comes into play: the -15% DN debuff that you get when equipping a Soreseal takes into account your "nominal" DN and not your actual one with diminishing return. So, to go back to the previous example: if you equip a Soreseal in the same conditions as before, it applies its -15% DN debuff to the 30% "nominal" DN, so you end up with 30% - 15% = 15% total DN instead of the expected 25% - 15% = 10% total DN.
Which means that equipping a Soreseal while having high DN effectively reduces the penalty of the Soreseal because your lowered DN gets affected less by the diminishing return.
Considering that diminishing return does not apply to flat defense, considering that you gain some flat defense when equipping a Soreseal because of your increased stats and considering that with buffs and spells you can increase your DN by quite a lot, I think one could make a solid argument for equipping a Soreseal at higher DN values if they value the stat boost it provides.
What do you think? I know I'm late to the party but I'd like to hear your opinion on this. There is also the possibility that I misunderstood something in the way damage negation is calculated and ended up with a completely wrong interpretation. Knowing From Software calculations it's actually quite probable lol
Took that into account already, which is why we're using average of 27% negation as "base" because that is a reasonable average that most PVP builds will strive for. What you are missing is marginal increases to negation makes negation better rather than worse, so a flat 15% increase/decrease also does not suffer from diminishing returns (i.e gaining a flat 10% negation when your base negation is 80% is more effective than gaining the same flat 10% negation when your base negation is 20%. The thing is, I messed up the calc in the vid - check pinned comment. Negation is multiplicative) Also, defense does suffer from diminishing returns, which is why 15 extra levels of defense isn't worth much at RL 125.
@@Chrightt I see. While I do understand that the marginal benefit gets higher and higher as your DN increases (with an 80% DN a flat +10% means taking 50% less damage indeed) I completely missed the pinned comment. Thanks for the info!
Thanks for this, I'm about halfway through and it's very well put together. : )
Seriously such good content, the community needs to give this more exposure!!!
Any help spreading vids would be much appreciated :P