Honestly I'm a bit disappointed by what we've seen in the upcoming game, I was looking forward to a nice campaign similar to the prequel but what we have is hub worlds ugh. To clarify hub worlds don't feel appropriate for a long war where you are constantly fighting to keep your ground, it breaks the immersion most times. I will wait and see just worried. Sorry I know this is off topic.
@@imnotgivingyoumyname810 Tbf that's the basic design of xcom style games and I feel that the hub design worked for them. Of course, the narrative does have to account for that fact and ensure that the missions end with us making appropriate progress against the nids.
05:57 saying that GW is "percentage wise more profitable than Google" is GROSSLY misleading. Google's annual profit in 2023 was Over 305 BILLION U$D. While GWs was Less than 0,6 Billion U$D. You make it sound like GW is rolling in more dough than the Top G. Dude they're not even in the same ballpark. They're not even in the same part of town.
I think your community might wanna give it another go, a lot of changes have happened and Space Marines only have one problematic detachment (which is seeing adjustments and nerfs again and again, Ironstorm) and xeno races have been quite decent. Orks are eating good, Necrons are quite strong altough I think wraiths, c'thans and a few other units are doing a lot of the work. CSM is not bad, Eldar was really strong, Drukari had been improved with a new department. All this on top of core rules changes. my main army is Dark Angels, deathwing in particular, but I also have Votann and sisters to keep the game fresh for both me and my opponents.
Yeah Darktide is an amazing game with a lot of QoL issues. Great gameplay, terrible systems. Ashame it has taken them almost 2 years to even get close to addressing these issues.
It was good a few months back, after Xmas 2023, when my gaming friends and I picked it up cheap in a sale, and we formed a team. I played a lot around march 2024, and if it had been in that state when it was released, it could have been a big hit. The developers really shot themselves by releasing it when it was unpolished and buggy as hell. They would be rolling in cash if they'd had their act together and not treated the buying public as Beta testers. It and Cyberpunk 2077 should be object lessons in the industry, while Balders Gate 3 and Helldivers 2 point at them and laugh.
It feels like GW is compartmentalizing the 40K universe until the only conflict is Ultramarines vs. Dark Ultramarines. It'll just be a Halo Deathmatch.
@DogseatDogs Plus any army that relies on weight of numbers gets very expensive, very quickly to accumulate enough plastic crack to leverage their 'non-elite' stats. So orks, nids and IG are well into some big money to get enough of the little guys- its not that I don't think Custodes, Grey Knights and all that are pretty cool for smaller model-count armies, just that its not what everyone wants to play either just to get some table time.
This is not a new problem either. The fact that SpaceMarine subfactions had codexs about them as far back as 3rd edition eating releases when they are literally less than 1000 dudes in a galactic wide setting, should have set the tone for how much special treatment GW gives them. The Primaris line was introduced solely to get people to repurchase their armies because they produced so many kits over the years their was literally no way to produce more because every possible niche was covered.
It is the year 2040, the new space marine chapter release was once again a raging success for GW. With that Codex they are now close to finishing all 1000 SM chapters. Bill rummages through the old GW storage room and stops. That's odd, what is this? In the very corner there is a shelf with boxes. He wipes away the thick dust on the sign of the shelf. XENOS it says. He blows away the dust on the boxes. Thats odd. On it are models that are clearly GW design, yet they.... are not of space marines! He frowns, thinking back on all the space marine books he has read over the years. Never had he come across descriptions of figures that look like the models in front of him. Everyone knows it has always just been space marines vs space marines. An ever ongoing war of infighting. Was he to believe that there were OTHER factions in the universe as well? No that couldn't be, that would be to absurd. After all he had kept up with every new release of GW over the years. It has always just been Space Marines. 💀
Bill gets an eerie sensation that what he is holding in his hands is forbidden knowledge. Dark knowledge. Secrets best kept buried. Briefly, so feint he isn't sure it really happened, a crow behind a purple velvet appears before his mind's eye, and he is left with a feeling of uncertainty, as if the world is not right. Quickly he decides that this box of heretical figures must be burnt. Games Workshop is a Space Marine company and nothing else. If the existence of other Games Workshop models were revealed it would cause untold damage to the shareholders.
The Horus Heresy novels have had an INCALCULABLE effect on 40k. Notice how when newer entrants into the hobby talk about "warhammer lore" they'll so often really just talk about HH events, names of characters in there. The primarchs. There used to be a somewhat strong presence of later founding chapters, like the Crimson Fists and such, but nowadays it seems A LOT of players think of space marines almost entirely in terms of legions, which I suspect is a carry-over from first being introduced to space marines through HH lore. Being able to focus on an ongoing narrative with recurring characters has clearly made the setting A LOT more interesting to lots of people. Now, personally, I prefer when 40k is a sandbox, I prefer when it is vast and unknowable and you have lots of different conflicts taking place around the place, and there isn't really an ongoing narrative beyond the initial setup, but clearly a lot of people prefer it to have ONE BIG STORY and it to revolve a limited cast of main characters. And GW has learnt that, I worry. They'll bring back the Primarchs, they'll make the 42nd millennium a continuation of their family drama. Everything else will be side stories. It's the same trap Star Wars fell down into. They had this whole vast galaxy they could have explored, but everyone already knew about the Skywalkers, so more Skywalker-centric stories it is. Everyone knows what Tatooine is, so somehow the characters will end up on Tatooine for some reason, etc. Maybe it will be a passing trend, I don't know, but it does bum me out. ELDAR USED TO BE A CORE FACTION FFS.
The lore will be changed...we do not have to change with it. And I get the Eldar point....there used to be more than just 'and then Eldrad was somehow involved' or 'the Avatar was merced by the character of the week and a bunch of eldar got killed which was somehow tragic'.
I got into the hobby through my brothers White Dwarf magazines, Eldar vs Dark Eldar were the featured battle report. Tau were all over the other WD as they were being introduced. They were exciting times for the hobby, I mean this is back when all the Primarchs combined probably added up to a paragraph of lore, ignoring the Horus/Sanguinius and Rogal Dorn Codex Astartes stuff. Now I mean no offense, but all the who is the tallest primarch stuff, what is Corax up to, who the fuck cares? They are such a small part of the setting. The Eldar have met the Tau fucking once. Once.
You are absolutely right on that. I love Imperial guard books and I believe that with their massive untold trillions of Guardsman fighting in the wars against the enemies of the Imperium they deserve a much better representation no only in their own books but while being described in Space Marine Novels as well. There is clearly a difference when you read about the Imperial guard in their own novel and when they are simply secondary characters in a space marine Novel.
You mean "They held out until the planet cracked and even after it". Guardsmen already got their hands full of epic, thats why i play them in DoW instead of my man's the Ultramarines.
I run a regiment of imperial guard closely modeled after the dkok. Except I took 1_35 scale German vehicles and built them into conversions for my troopers. They are not codex but they are fun. Imagine a 1/32 scale tiger royal now put a battle cannon, a predator hatch, a flamer ,and a pintel mounted heavy bolter on it. Fun.
They need to get their prices under control. When i started a tac squad was 35 dollars. 60 for an intercessor unit is ridiculous. The most expensive things were terminators and a land raider, they were 50.
As a star wars legion player, looking at the prices absolutely baffles me. I can get a heavy vehicle or 2 whole units for the price of one set of 6 warhammer minis. The problem with warhammer is that people will continue to pay the higher price, so why stop increasing?
The Infinite and the Divine proves that great storytelling with Xenos as protagonists is possible and profitable. It's a book that comes up as a top 3 to recommend to a newcomer. Aeldari, Leagues of Votann or Tau just need a great author to work their magic. Particularly Elves are so much more popular in other franchises because the writing is better. Black Library may only be 1% of GW profits, but it's hard to gauge how much those book have an effect on what models you buy. And ultimately, using those novels to create a cinematic universe will be the greatest money maker in end. More Xenos please!
I'll add the Twice Dead King to that as well. Turns out existential ancient ghost trapped in metal bodies with biological consciousness conflicted with a mechanical body leads to more interesting writing than big guy with gun shoots bad thing.
Bro, Eldar don't even get books. And I'm not even an Eldar player. But give people more reason to have interest in them. They might be a problem on TTG but that's really only if you're playing a sweat. In that case, you're either sweating yourself or got one game of pain. But those happen in any kind of game. But the Harlequins are dope af. I'd love full animation or novel about them. Or even the craftworlds. Ive been in the hobby for years and I still feel like I don't know shit about them relative other factions. I understand necrons better (Szarekh bless them) but they haven't even been in the setting as long. Especially when you consider the huge retcon to their culture and personality
We walked into the local Warhammer official store yesterday to look at starter kits. They tried upselling us to the $300 kit for like 15 or 20 plastic figures (unpainted, unassembled) with no paint and no tools. It would have cost us around $500 for the kit and some paint/tools. All just for the starter kit. This is not what we asked for, it's what the worker was trying to upsell us. We went to another local store and got a complete Tau scout infantry kit AND a marine dreadnaught, packaged sealed, for less than $100. The prices are insane for unpainted plastic kits, reguardless of the quality of the plastic.
Looking at the warhammer official website I initially thought the prices were for full painted minis, which I could see as being reasonable if not low balled. But $30-40 for max 6 unpainted and unassembled plastic minis?? Nah they got me fucked up with that, I closed out amd never looked back lol
Most people who aren't blindly loyal or independently wealthy 3d-print models and borrow/pirate books (at least as far as people I know personally). 40k is a great IP and we like it. GW is an indignantly self-righteous and maliciously greedy corporation who use the most reprehensible and predatory marketing practices to benefit as much as possible at our expense and we hate it. As soon as enough people do this, and it ceases to be profitable to act like a cartoonishly greedy and evil villain, they will stop their bullshit and not a moment before.
“Don’t you know who I am?! I’m Boss Grimskull! THIS WHOLE PLANET IS MINE!!!” *ahahahhaha* He was great, but so was Gorgutz in the Dawn of War games - legendary
Its easy to say that complain now. Just wait for all these complains to die out for months while the whole franchise talks about the return of jagathai. Then look the fans try to not look like a bunch of hypocrates once they realize how much they boosted the white scars *SP* sales.
@@leandrocastello309 I have never once bought a Space Marine, and the only ones I've painted have been a handful of dismembered ones for the bases of my Orks and Guard.
It's always been a problem. From the very beginning Space Marines were painted as mythic warriors of legend, only spoken of as a fairy tale by the vast majority of the imperium, but then *gestures broadly at everything...
Space Marines should have stayed as mythic warriors of legend, symbols of a bygone era. A niche faction or a limited specialist unit for other imperial armies but their awe & majesty spoken of as near divine.
@helline9 yeah but then how much more of warhammer would have be scaled down? Necrons and the silent king much smaller, chaos crusades etc. Otherwise the imperium would just get steamed rolled
There are 1 million space marines in the galaxy. They aren't the bulwark of the Imperium's defense. They have nothing to do with Titans, Knights etc etc. Lore wise they are so small they would be insignificant. But yet, here we are, they show up everywhere and influence everything. There are over 1 million colonised imperial worlds that all have their own standing armies. That is one Space Marine per world.
Back in the Rouge Trader days and even up until maybe half way through 2nd edition The Space Marines were like the Imperial Guard. Then about half way through 2nd Ed's life cycle they introduced the Imperial Guard as its own faction and doubled down on the mythic aspects of the Space Marines and they became TransHuman demigods. The first Space Marines were very very different from the Space Marines of today
You forgot the other problem. As a new player I feel overwhelmed by space marines options. I can't make heads or tails of what to buy for black templars. I want to build them but feel lost. So I went with what models I think look cool and am building adepta sororitas. But yeah I want black templars but feel like it takes so much research
They added Legues of Votan 2 years ago and, as far as I know they STILL don't have a lore book. The brand new faction, with a brand new model range, dose not have a lore book to hype the range. Yet we STILL get more Space Marines
Honestly I think they messed up the Leagues. They aren't nearly dwarfy enough. There is the parody, bombastic, fun side of 40K that is being neglected. I don't want more generic sci-fi factions. I want the bearded boozin' squats who always mine too deep. They should embrace it rather than try to be so serious.
I remember reading the "Priests of Iron" omnibus which was supposed to be an admech centric story about an explorator fleet. Half the book focused on a rogue trader from Ultramar who took any opportunity to gush about Ultramarines or that one time he stood relatively close to Cato Sicarius' personal bubble and most of the other half was about *six* Black Templars, including a scene that infuriates me more than almost anything I've ever read: A Techpriest who's studied every martial art known to mankind and was so deadly with his meticulously crafted cybernetic body he got a nickname for killing a catachan monster losing an honor duel to a rookie space marine.
The general rule of thumb is that if it isn't a space marine novel, it's a space marine novel in disguise. The Great Work - which was mentioned in the Video - has Cawl and Qvo as AdMech characters. Everyone else is a Space Marine.
I was agreeing with you until I got to the end. Unnamed space marines are gonna be able to man handle just about anything one on one in melee combat. It’s kind of their thing particularly Black Templars.
@@Cyd98 if a fucking *ork* can kill a veteran space marine, then the super kitted out martial artist cyborg could probably win a play duel against a noob.
12:11 that anecdote sums up the 40K hobby for me perfectly, building, painting and all. You take breaks when the fire leaves ya, but then something strikes the flames again and you come back with a vengeance for a while.
This is why I respected Owlcat Games. Yes they added a space marine to the roster, but not until the ass end of act 3 in a 4 act game. Rogue Trader really sold the universe of 40k. I can also say the same for Darktide after the course correction. Not a SM in sight.
@@biscoto3201 hell before you register that he's an Ulfar of the Space Wolves he's more or less just a big ol' flesh eater in the pits. Plus he's not the stoic, Ultramarine image of a SM either. He's got that "I will drink you under the table" attitude and fits in quite well.
Same, I love Rogue Trader. You get this super unique and fascinating group of characters that show off so much of the setting and why it's great. Love Cassia, love Heinrix, love Pasqal... Ulfar's also a great include, since yes, he is a Space Marine, but he's a Space Marine with character who has struggles both internal and external and I really found myself loving the guy, without him becoming a plot black hole.
Even as a black Templar player, I hate the lack of attention given to all the other factions, I'd really love to see more models for all the other factions.
@Tacoguy1000 Yeah, but at least they would exist, even if narrative speaking new stuff is ass and in rules they suck, even a couple new cool looking modles per faction would be a very nice change compared to SpaceMarine ad infinitum.
I don't play Warhammer, but have been listening to the Lore from Lutin, Wes, etc. for over a year now. So I don't know everything, but I understand the horror that is a Hive Fleet. That being said, the Imperium will most always be on the winning side because, well, they're "humans." It's fun to read the stories where a Necron 1v50s some SMs but it's never going to be something that is printed all that often because most readers wouldn't relate all that much to it other than perhaps if you main Necrons, or whatever race you may play in the tabletop. I think that's the point Wes here was trying to make too. The bases of the fans is growing more bias toward SMs which is a natural aspect of having SMs on the side of humanity. Its a slippery slope, they need to find a way to make those stories relatable to a broader audience.
Exactly, tyrannids SHOULD be the scariest faction in the game, but every time they show up it’s just to be cannon fodder for whatever named space marine the book is talking about
I’d love a Qvo model to accompany Cawl. Too cool an idea to let sit in the books only. Ironically id like to see primus too, but I’d be happy to not get yet another marine, just think it’d be a unique character to run in AdMech armies.
I think the unfortunate reality of the 40k narrative is that it will always follow what is most profitable for the tabletop. So if space marines are what sell the most then we'll get space marines
@@wephilips6651 you’re just gonna get more space marines. GW is a business first before anything else, so regardless of what people say they are always going to follow the money (which is space marines)
@@wephilips6651 It's a feedback loop. None of it will change because GW wanted SMs to be the posterchild for the tabletop and made them the jack of all trades, meaning they're the easiest to learn, meaning most newcomers stuck with them, meaning that the demand went up while the other armies went down, meaning people keep buying SMs in bulk so GW keeps pandering to it which makes them keep SMs as the posterchild. Rinse and repeat.
Until there's nothing left for the space Marines to fight, and it all collapses. I haven't played the tabletop in a while so I didn't know it had gotten that extreme on the imperium side. This feels like a bubble that'll bust, and the tabletop scene will be difficult to rebuild. But if gets built in the first place, it can be rebuilt.
Orks rule dude. They’re simple, but so fucking awesome and funny. They also have the coolest power in universe…. Belief into reality is just cooler than the other psykers.
For all the hype Primarch models generate in 40k, its sooo bad for the lore and overall development of new model lines. Returning Primarchs are like black holes that suck all the attention and story of the whole world of 40k toward them, no one cares what if an Aeldari / Nurgle / Necron warband is doing something to advance the story, its all about what the Primarchs are doing. Just slowly becoming Horus Heresy.
@@Xero_Kaiserbecause you don't like them but other people do 😂 40k has millions of fans and they all love many factions in case you were too ignorant to notice
That is not a new development. I played Warhammer first 20 years ago and even their was Space Marines the most supported Faction. Most Books, Models in every Starting Box, always a fresh Codex. It has never changed a lot. Oh and please put Nurgle not in the same basket with the other ones. Death Guard is the most flesh out Traitor Legion and they get a lot of lore and books.. The whole Plague War are 5? Novels about Nurgle.
If I had creative control, I would make a Silent King novel series (at least a trilogy), about the Necron civil war, the Silent King vs Imotekh. And of course, which side Necron characters choose to side with. I would have the Craftworld Eldar making plans to assassinate the Silent King. At the same time, High Marshal Helbrecht of the Black Templars is seeking revenge on Imotekh. Lastly, I would have the Tau be the wild card faction, where there’s a Necron dynasty still sleeping on one of their worlds. And both the Silent King and Imotekh want to get to that dynasty, for they can turn the tide of the civil war. That’s what I would want to do.
Oh my god that would be amazing! I honestly cannot believe we haven't gotten a silent king book. A third book in The twice Dead King series would be great too as it kind of sorta ended on a cliffhanger... Even if the main characters story came full circle. If you know you know 😅
Personnally, I would also make a trilogy about Abaddon and another one about Asurmen and/or the Phoenix Lords... Gotta push on the big players. B) (Oh, and that last Ynnarii book where they have to plan a heist in Slaanesh's Palace.)
I wish we got more books and games on the T'au. Especially on all the different Xenos species that comprise it. Like we don't even have pictures for more than half of them. Not to mention if they found even more new species, it would be awesome to see the creativity for the types of lifeforms they'd create.
As a new collector of Space Marines, my biggest issue isn't the 11 different poses of lieutenants. The problem is the vast product line you need to collect to have a complete army.
I feel the same. There is just so many options. Different units that all look slightly different, do slightly different things, and all have different weapon loadouts. For an army that is supposed to be new player friendly there is a daunting number of options and it's easy to pick a loadout and figure out later you should of built them differently. Like I built 6 aggressors with flamers before I learned about the apothecary biologis combo. Also built incursors instead of infiltrators from my BA combat patrol and later wished I'd have done infiltrators when my buddy hypercrypted a monolith into my deployment zone.. the incursors have been.... less then useful.
I think a 40k game that follows the format Star Wars Battlefront 2 had would be amazing. You play as a grunt and earn points and with enough points you get to then play as a special class/character. Space Marine, SoB, Tech-Priest, and the same for the other factions. The cherry on top would be if you could make the game to be of a scale similar to that of Planetside 2
That's what I've been thinking for the past year, guardsman vs necrons or tyranids or orks or any chaos like nurgle or all that got mentioned for replayability. no micro at all best idea ever money every where
I heard someone's hot take that Darktide should've had space marines fighting a genestealer cult and tyranids, in my head I yelled 'just go play Death Wing or Space Marine 2 when it comes out. We need more representation, there's too many space marines!' I honestly didn't think I would find this video talking about too many space marines
Yeah, prisoners loyal to the Emperor fighting for attonment under Inquisitorial banner going from just a prisoner on parol to being part of the warband. I also find it more appealing to play as regular people or marginally regular since the psyker and ogryn ate abhumans. I always liked the guard and admechs even though space Marines were what drew me in to 40k
Honestly 10 edition is a reason why a good majority of players, myself and my friend group included, moved over to horus heresy. If there is gonna be space marine vs space marines battle we might as well play horus heresy with each legions having their own rules.
This comment is just pure truth, although 9th edition had a fair bit of book keeping the trade off in depth was awesome. 10th edition feels like Warhammer with training wheels attached compared to HH 2.0
My Brother in Christ... When I played in the 2000's and 2010's, 35% of players played Ultramarines... Not just Space Marines, but that Specific Chapter... Space Marines have been "Oversaturated" in the Setting for quite some time.
I remember in 2010 the GW shop near me had setup an event for a large scale battle between the Imperium vs Xenos (just for fun). However they had to change it to Space Marines vs everyone else and they *still* had to have a couple of SM players on the "Xenos" side because so many people play Space Marines.
I agree with you wes and honestly i would like to see them explore the Tau and eldar a smidge, as well as i would like to them write about the dark age of technology and age of strife.
There used to be a time when Space Marines would get multiple codices per edition while many prominent factions had to wait a decade or so for an update (and sometimes even then, like with Sisters, the "update" was a lackluster White Dwarf index). No new models, no quarterly balance updates, nothing. Dark Eldar had precisely three plastic kits (the Ravager and Asdrubael Vect kits were just Raiders with extra metal bits) from 1998 to their range refresh in 2010. The only reprieve from near-total neglect the Guard could hope to have until their 2007 range refresh and brand spanking new codex that everyone else complained was broken was Forge World's Imperial Armor books (not to mention that most of the Guard's miniature releases between 1998 and 2007 were new metal regiments that basically consisted of an infantry squad, a heavy weapons team, and a command squad. The current plastic Catachan Jungle Fighter sculpts haven't been updated in over 25 years). Sisters were still using metal models from 2nd edition until *they* got a full range refresh in 8th edition over 20 years later. Space Marines, however, got new models and codices with every edition, often more than once.
This was something ive been terrified of since they brought back a Guilliman. No other story line will bring as much Hype as a primarch returning. So, theyll want to bring the others back 1 by 1 to cause big flux's in attention But once theyre all back.. where do they go from there? The only place left to go, is the End Times
>Russ' last words before vanishing were "At the end I will be there. For the final battle. For the Wolftime." >All but confirmed to be the next Primarch to return Yeah it's over. Better hope they renovate HH into 40k Old World.
Don't worry, I'm sure they can just 'reset' the franchise like Marvel did. They they can retell the HH all over again! But more diverse this time, quote unquote.
I can only hope that the new players have the exact same experience that i did, walking into a store to look over the models, walking past all the samey space marines, and then they see a stompa and go "well i have to play this faction, they have the biggest chainsword!"
What kinda sucks about this is we don’t even have certain space marine Legions. Let me have Raven Guard without having to buy upgrade kits a/or awkwardly buy boxes that I’ll only partially use.
As someone not playing or building, only reading/watching the lore: I think it's precisely the diversity of grim dark of the 40K universe that makes it attractive. And while I don't build or play the TT, I can easily imagine people being bored of painting and playing the n-th instance of slightly different but mostly same minis.
Won't make sense if doesn't sell good, Space marine are the poster boys of wh40k. someone who's uninterested in 40k or unfamiliar with it probably still knows about space marines.
My game store is in a similar position where its like 90% Space Marines players. When I got into the game during 9th and told everyone Id be playing Tau, everyone cheered cause everyone is just sick and tired of the Space Marine mirror. I think for now GW going full Space Marine is profitable, but I do think in the longrun, it's just not profitable. So sure, GW got away with Primaris to basically sell Space Marine players their own army to themselves, but eventually, eventually, the well will run dry again. This is unsustainable at this rate. Then what? Add Cawls twin brother, Belarosias Bawl and he came up with Primaris Marines.... 2!
As a newer 40k fan i have to say that the sapce marine lore is what brought me here. I love all of their lore however, i understand the fear of it becoming the space marine show. I do think they are a centerpiece and even the "hook" that snags newcomers but without the rest of the factions and their lore, space marines would be nothing without the fear of the true horrors that 40k factions experience. Without fear there can be no courage no ambitions no loss or failure. Hearing the stories of other factions and everyday life in the imperium and other races is what makes this universe and i hope to learn more of it while sprinkling in space marine lore every now and again.
I want to play a 4X Necron game. A Tyranid Evolution/Gene Loadout Roguelite. An Astra Militarum RTS. HiveCitybuilder Noise Marine rhythm game The Grey Knights XCOM-Like that came out a couple of years ago was an excellent usage of the IP. We could have a Hero Shooter with our favorite figures in the lore. There's literally no end to the variety they could put out.
I second the Tyranid Evolution roguelite, that'd be a great kinda thing to see and would be interesting to see. Or the XCOM-like game with there being Guardsmen/Planetary Defense Guardsmen against a Genestealer Cult or something of the sort.
Started to notice this like 5 years ago I initially started with Marines, like everyone But then saw Chaos and thought 'so i get the space marines, but more options, variety in model types, funky magics, even daemons!' But over the years.. the Chaos line expanded ny like 2 options. And marines kept getting more and more variety To the point it was feeling like they were just getting re-skins of the unique chaos stuff i liked
You are spot on with the re-skins, in reality GW could just sell weapon upgrade sprues for the intercessor boxes and call it a day but they make more money selling a different kit. Personally, I don't care since I have a 3D printer and can just buy a single intercessor box and magnetize for all the options. Tournament legal too as most of the model is GW. Sucks for those that don't have a 3D printer but they get cheaper and cheaper so GW is going to have problems if they don't change.
@@Aneerah Started with Eldar, and have stuck with them for 23 years now. I did branch out into their dark cousins, and at the start of 10th ed. Sisters of Battle as well, but yeah, not everyone starts with Space Marines. When I moved to my current hometown 23 years ago, my cousin had just started with 40k and played Marines. For lack of other friends I went to the local store with him, and once I saw the Eldar battleforce (the ancient one with a Falcon in it) I was sold. That tank was, and remains, the prettiest bit of sci-fi tech I had ever seen.
It's not that all other factions deserve representation, it might even be damaging if you represent a faction to closely as it kills the mystery. Did I love The infinite and the divine. Yes, I read it twice in quick succession. Did it remove a lot of what was creepy about the Necrons? Yes, it absolutely did. I remember playing the Dawn of War games ages ago, the Necrons were quite frightening and intense as a adversary. I can't remember being affected like that in a RTS ever, and The infinite and the divine removed some of that fear. Lore focused on our beloved adversaries or say the age of strife are trickier to get right as you do not want to kill the mystery. Having a book focusing directly on an event in the age of strife would be hugely risky, as an example, writing a book focusing on a mech priest finding a forgotten data bank on the same subject would be much better in my opinion, optimally leading to more questions than answers.
Nids can become more horrorific. Necrons can awake more war-like models. Tau can create better armors and suits. Eldar MUST focus on their gods to fight Chaos and bring their species back. As a consequence, better technology is rediscovered. Dark Eldar could become "Chaos Eldar" by accepting Slaanesh as their fate to then expand to the rest of the Dark Gods in desperation to save themselves. Orks should get a feral look yet get better weapons and armors since there could be less Warbosses but far stronger and "Intelligent" IG must get better equipment ASAP. Maybe the Dwarves can help
@@emiledupuis545 That GW is currently need better imaginative writers with like-mindedness all while not afraid to potentially offend anyone and I mean anyone to deliver better products, so they can organically expand their lore EVEN CHINESE GACHA GAMES FROM A CERTAIN COMPANY HAVE WAY BETTER LORE BUILDUP THAN THEM, in just shorter amount of years
Space Marines have essentially been written into a corner. Before the primaris upgrade, the lore had the Astartes using war gear 10k years old with no technological innovation, so every time GW tried to introduce a new unit or vehicle it became "of course we can use the Deus Ex Machia Mk II that we've had for the last 10 thousand years and just haven't deployed before." After the primaris introduction, it's much easier to introduce new models and vehicles, but lore wise it still crashes against a setting where technological innovation is literally Heresy and can get you burned at the stake or worse. Writers can, of course, write stories about other factions without changing anything fundamental to their lore or technology, but that won't let GW sell more models. There's a huge difference between writing good stories and writing stories to sell products, and GW is focused on the latter. WH40k lore has become the equivalent of the Saturday morning cartoon show that only exists to sell action figures.
Disagree about the Drukhari, we don´t need more chaos there is enough of that already. But there are things they could do with the Drukhari. The demons have invaded Commeragh through Khanes gate. The Drukhari have no weapons against them, in their desperation they tried to get a DNA sample of the Emperor wanting to clone him, to use his might to once again push the demons out. Well it failed. So the Drukhari now have to use different methods, so we could see new horrifying creations from the Drukhari, things that where created ot try and stop the demons but failed and are now being used on the battlefield to kidnap even more people. Either that or just give us all our old characters back.
I still think the amazon show shouldnt be about the horus heresy. I really want it to be about the guardsmen fighting a brutal battla with no hopes of survival. Have it start out as every movie. Introduce a character, quickly tell us about him and his motivation, make the audience believe after the first few minutes he is the main character. And then kill him off in the most brutal way. Just the first 10 minutes are normal and then hit us with the brutal reality of the w40k universe. Would be kinda funny if henry cavil would play this quick role
Eh...at a certain point you end up with the Walking Dead or Game of Thrones problem where you're so busy subverting expectations and proving that "nobody's safe" that you end up killing off all the characters people actually give a shit about.
@@Dyno2999 There's no specific thing that I hope happens, there is just a list of things that may be cool. There is a near endless supply of interesting events and characters that could be involved, so many that I can't really just choose one. I am more of the mind of "wait and see". As Kaiser said though, OP's idea is too reminiscent of Gome of Thrones and The Walking Dead, both shows that started good but became massively disappointing and stale.
LOL right as I was saying in my head: "OH AND DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE LACK OF ANYTHING RELATED TO THE LEAGUE OF VOTANN," you say "can we get a freakin' Votann novel?" You get me, Wes. You get me.
That’s why in a lot of my videos I always try to read human or Zeno’s perspective, rarely ever do I ever focus on space marines. While I love them, it gets annoying over time..
I completely agree with your opinion on this WES there is so much more to be explored. Instead of continuing to bring chapters and primarchs back, they should look into killing some off. To me, a sense of impermanence in 40k would be a good thing, kill off a successor chapter every once in awhile. I feel it would keep people more engaged and wondering. Just like in game of thrones, they did a good job at showing no one is safe, and also telling the story from so many different angles , not just the most "popular" ones. I myself am a player of space Marines. But first and foremost I am a fan of 40k. I feel for and enjoy all factions, and wish everyone had the depth and diversity of content and models that we do.
This is one of my biggest gripes with 40k: they're too afraid to kill characters off who aren't already doomed by canon. Like ...no one is saying you can't use Primaris Marneus Calgar in a game, but Abaddon the Despoiler should have killed him on Vigilus. Doesn't seem very grim dark to have characters with plot armor.
I hope it makes you feel better that I got into 40k after the announcement of SM2 but I gravitated to the Tyranids and other factions more than the SMs.
I would so love if Black Library would let Graham NcNeill loose and write several books on the fall of the Eldar and hopefully not a single mention of a Space Marine.
I hope they never cover the dark age of technology or the war in heaven, but do cover the other things. If you describe it, it isn't a dark age anymore. It's not a black box of infinite possibility where you can pull out impossible technology to make a point about what changed. And the war in heaven, if ever described, needs to be told like a myth. Light on detail, light on dialogue, heavy on metaphor and exaggeration, no subtlety at all, 200% ham and tropes. It's gotta be right up there with the Illiad or The Romance of the 3 Kingdoms. Because if it ever gets told remotely grounded, same deal as the dark age of technology. It stops being a thing of myth and legend and "oh fuck, as bad and ridiculous as 40k is, this is just the rubble of an unimaginable golden age long past" which a key part of the vibe of 40k. Those events need to stay unimaginable. There's plenty of stories to tell from before and after those events to fill 10 lifetimes of lore and models
As someone who makes models for living, primarily focusing on Space Elves / Chaos, I can guarantee you it's only because it sells. They keep making them, because people keep buying them. I have a moderately sized community of fellow Space Elves army / model enthusiasts but nothing compared to those who make Big Space Marine Proxies, that shit sells like hot cakes / gets the likes. Big Boys sell, plain and simple
I'm completely new to Warhammer, I love the idea and aesthetic of DKoK. I understand they have VERY little unit variation. But I found someone selling an engineer squad and I loved it. Then found out they did away with it. And according to lore, their engineers are fucking insane. Digging underground and creating tunnels towards the enemy lines, setting up trenches, bunkers, machine gun pits, artillery etc. I don't see why they did that before I had any time to enjoy them.
Here’s something that you didn’t bring up it would be bad if all space marines were forced on us but it’s always the ultra marines or dark angels and a few others but GW has just forgotten about the Iron Hands, Raven Guard etc compared to the others they get nothing it’s always just about the same chapters and that makes it so much worse to me
criminally underrated game and the OST is just amazingly resonant. I already loved turn based games in the vein of XCOM so putting a game like that in the 40k universe was a slam dunk for a player like me. Can't wait for Mechanicus II.
@@jamesh2321i played battle sector and I loved that game so much, and honestly when I heard people talk about Mechanicus I never played it because I thought there’s no way it’s as good as my little Blood Angel babies. But it sounds like I should finally give it a go!
Part of the solution is probably finding ways to make more baseline human-centric table top armies for the setting. Like raiding parties of pirates and gangers who function like a blend of eldar corsairs and orks, or an equivalent to a "neighborhood watch" patrol from a hive city, augmented with some manufactorum workers wielding industrial equipment as heavy weapons, with an Arbites officer as the warlord. Because you're right, space marines aren't really people anymore, and that makes them less compelling as characters. Developing new armies that highlight the contrast of regular people in the absurd monstrosity of the setting could be much more compelling.
They used to kind of do this with the Imperial Guard. They used to have loads of different regiments that had entirely different experiences, beliefs, fighting styles and, most importantly, models. This was initially the case, but this was expensive both in labour and materials, so they condensed the guard into the regiments people bought: the Cadian Shock Troops and the Catachan Jungle Fighters. Now all of the guard is just Cadia barring a few exceptions. Space Marines seem to be doing this exact same thing to the entire hobby. Bring back varied regiments
As an Aeldari player I agree the other factions could use more love particularly when it comes to their model ranges. As you said some our models are 20-30 years old in terms of the sculpts.
As someone who once wanted to get into the Tabletop, the prices and the lack of Custodes/Tau units in shops turned me off from getting into it. The main shop I visited for models had around 2 dozen different Astartes kits and LITERALLY NO OTHER FACTIONS! The Space Marine Problem is something that will definitely kill the franchise if not fixed IMMEDIATELY.
@@JJJBunney001 ones an older franchise than the other. Halo has been adding more lore to the story line and most of it doesn't even fit or make sense. Alien crab space dust. Endless. Sanshayum-ancient human alliance. What does that have to do with the Human Covenant War?
@@pyerack my point is, like weshammer is stating, there's too much focus on space marines. We need more from the 40k universe than brother cornius and captain cringius have a duel to regain "honor"
Personal anecdote not at all meant to make a specific point. I first learned to play 40k with 3rd edition. I then stopped playing at the start of 6th edition due to the same reason so many other people did. I decided to try to get into tenth edition as a friend of mine was also interested in trying their hand at the game. Currently, due various reasons, I have 2.5 unopened armies. One unopened army of 'nids, still in box One unopened army Eldar, still in box One half open/half built army of Dark Angles. So, I started painting my old Dark Angels, hoping to just give them a nice gussy-up. Half-way through a tac-squad, I saw that basically every mini I planed on painting, had painted, or were still yet-built for my marines, were now not viable in 10th. So, before jumping the gun, I went to see if what I currently had for Eldar or 'Nids were playable. I didn't need some uber-master-meta list, just viable enough to have at least a chance at winning against another casual army. Sadly, everything I had had been left behind by the game, so even a casual match against a casual list would probably be a shut out for me. Yes, 30k and HH are a thing, but they're not the thing either my friend or anyone at my LGS are playing. So, my options are: Buy a lot of new models, 3D print a lot of new models, convince my one friend to invest in a pair of minimally supported game. It's not an untenable situation, but I have so many fantastic options right now from other games that I have to ask "Why go through so much effort just to start playing this game, when I'm already happy with the other games in my life?" So, I just don't play.
@@lynco3296 We really need more of the inverse. The story starts off as a Chaos incursion, but then some other threat comes in and kicks both sides asses until the Space Marines pull a victory out of their butts. That'd be more appealing than the inverse that is seen 99% of the time.
I totally agree on that. There are tons of cool factions and really simple ways to use the Space Marines as a step to get to them: Chaos Space Marines are similar enough to get it started and would flesh out the Chaos a bit. You could start with Space Marines fight off an Orc Invasion just to later find out that it was all orchestrated by the Eldar to avoid something worse and now the arc jumps over to them as they are string to get their crossed schemes uncrossed again. Write a book about a Space Marine detachment sent to support the Guard and then slowly shift the focus over to the guard. As a matter of fact: This specific scenario would be great to show how inhumane (or transhuman) Space Marines really are when you compare them to ordinary humans.
I don’t trust gw with the war in heaven or anything eldar related, you can thank Thorpe for that and the fact not a single writer at bl wants to write eldar. But yes, bl in general do need to write more from xenos and chaos perspectives. Adb for example needs to go finish that black legion trilogy. The idiom is variety is the spice of life.
I learned to stop asking for Eldar stuff after Mr. Thorpe got a series. ABD _wants_ to write Eldar, but he won't because he needs to pay the bills (according to himself).
Space Marines 2 had better be polished on release, they should learn from Darktides mistakes. And as for Cavill's series, if they've got any brains they should let him have at least some creative control so that it's not a clusterf....
Amazon wanting to force DEI and lore breaking changes, lack of a workable script as of yet (allegedly), henry’s dedication to lore accuracy to name the few ive heard
They should make a sw battlefront style game and showcase every faction. Playing as space marines would be something people would have to earn to play as for a limited time and it would peak peoples interest in militarum and etc
That would be extremely hard to write and most likely gonna end with horrible book. Harlequins are basically meta aware. And it is very hard to play with cliches, when the actor knows and supports playing a cliche. I can however recommend reading "Practical guide to evil" series. Because it does just that. It is based on the world that is basically meta aware. And all the books are about the main heroine playing around and subverting these cliches when usefull and playing hard into them, to provide herself literal plot armour.
Fully agree Wes. As much as I Iove the Space Marines, I much more love the enormously wide 40k universe as a whole. There's a huge amount of untapped potential in the other factions. It's painful to see -for example- barely a handful of novels about Farsight and Shadowsun next to hundreds of marine novels, or such little exploration of the many subfactions next to marine chapters/legions, which themselves are just subfactions too. I really hope we get the good ending you describe!
I am new to the community and totally into the lore and the tabletop. But what actually bought me in was the conflicts and the interesting new concepts, weapons and tactics used by other species. I want to learn more about every corner of the universe equally and I really hope that more people like me will demand interesting and diverse content. The tabletop, the series, the books I read so far and the games would all be benefitting from giving us more backgrounds and perspective.
Mainly because nobody has tapped the author of the series to weigh in on it at all, I would think. But it does make sense to have an Inquisitor be the focal point character as he can then interact with every other faction and it not be lore-breaking. Another good choice would be a tech-priest or anyone from the Schola Progenum. Hell, we have 3 great named Commissar characters and they're a tiny fraction of the IG.
@@LastManStanding777it’s all bait, none of the articles or pictures spread online actually have a real source, and Cavill hasn’t said anything about it so (hopefully) it might actually be lore accurate
Also, I think it needs to be mentioned that the Space Marines are way cooler when seen by normal people. A Space Marine doesn't belive that the Empror is a god, understand they cannot physically understand fear and realises their role as the shield of humanity, a tool rather than a person. A normal person sees a Space Marine as the God Empror of Mankind's angels, dropping from the sky in shuttles of steel to fearlessly smite down the ennemies of humanity. The normal soldier sees him unleash the holy bolter's wrath to tear down foe's that their lasgun couldn't dream of taking down. As a first person perspective, Space Marines are about "wow cool futuristic soldiers" (and often need to be nerfed for story's sake, or randomly jerked off way too much during high stakes scenes).As a third person perspective, Space Marines are religious icons who allow you to fully grasp the vibe of the imperium.
I was introduced to the warhammer 40k Universe by Bricky's warhammer timeline video, and immediately after that, I was excited to know about the "Age of Strife", "Dark Age of Technology", "The War in Heaves" etc. I searched various places for books detailing these events, but was not able to find any. I am liking the Space Marines so far, but I can definitely see it getting stagnant in the coming years.
I think one of the best examples of the Space Marine problem is the Salamanders. By the standards of Space Marines, they are underdeveloped and lacking in lore, now if you compared to some Xenos factions... Well even not counting Horus Heresy, they still have more lore than entire factions. One, underdeveloped chapter, has more lore, than entire Xenos factions.
Id truly like to see more of the Nekrons in general. The Tyranids and what / where they came from. Why not a nyds + techy skelly boys encounter? The only one i can remember is the Silent King shitting his pants when he saw the nyds for the first time & he came back running home..... I want more stuff like that 😢
Dude, I think a huge percent of their sales that comes from people that don't even play the game. I buy and paint the models, get the codexes of the factions on painting and read the books. I haven't played the game in 20 years.
I collect and paint Orks, Chaos and Dark Angels.The only time I played in the last 20 years was when my girlfriend's teenage niece was staying with us and wanted to know what the cool-looking models were for. We played a version of 2nd edition based on my memories of how it went. The modern versions sound like over-complicated sales drivers to me.
A good topic. I think the problem is, starting Space Marines (even ignoring models) has become easy mode: GW have shown us how to do a codex Chapter, how to break it, colour scheme guides, you name it. When it handed out it's IP to Relic Entertainment and Hatchette Partworks, we got the Blood Ravens and the Silver Templars. But we never see an attempt to create a new Ork Clan or Craftworld with the same ease. Primaris likely got more names/uniforms/snippets of lore for factions with the Ultima founding than Orks or the Eldar have in years. Churning out Chapters has become the norm...
I'm an Asuryani fan. Our range is decades old, our storyline is constantly getting screwed over, and the only times that the Eldar look intimating and competent isn't even in our own stories where we come of as hyper-dramatic YA protagonists or just plain useless. And it's almost, almost, always when Space Marines make an entrance, because they immediately go center stage after one-killing an Avatar of Khaine, again.
The fun part is, there's no way I can imagine a space marine taking on an Avatar of Khaine and winning... but heck - if it sells stories and gets money to GW... why shouldn't they be able to kill him :(
My local tabletop game convention has had a 40k tournament every year for 10 years. This year it's struggling to have one because so many players have dropped out. Our Extra Life chapter has had a for charity 40k tournament every year for 5 years but last time we couldn't generate enough interest for it to fire. People are switching to Mordheim, Necromunda, Age of Sigmar, Battletech, or playing older editions of 40k. Even if more people than ever are flocking to the universe, playing the game really seems to be dying off.
There’s also that other rumour running around of Creative Assembly’s Total War game set in Warhammer 40k. It’ll really suck if 80% of the playable factions are just different variations of Space Marines.
@@murrayrothbardgaming7567 I could imagine that you will have the Space Marines as a "race" and then the Ultramarines, Salamanders etc as faction like they have in TWW3, were for example the High Elfs as a race are split into Eataine, Avelorn etc.
I'm thinking it's actually the right thing to do right now. Space marines are going to be the majority of people's introduction to the universe. You're right that there are likely to be a lot of newcomers coming soon. So for them, the table is set, they can jump in and there's all you can eat on space marines. However, as these newcomers start settling in, they'll start wanting to diversify. That's when you'll see more about the orks, eldar, necrons and chaos. That's when the releases will change up a bit. You're not wrong here, you're just ahead of the curve and those of us already in this world will just need to be patient whilst everyone else catches up. The interesting thing, I think is, is predicting what the zeitgeist will latch on to after the space marine introduction. I think someone like Fabius Bile or Trazyn the Infinite could be where we go afterwards. But they need to be established first (which they are now) before we go in deep with our new fans.
I feel like this is a pretty common thread in this community now. I agree on most fronts but disagree that it would impact much. 3D printing exists and there are tons of folks who are creating models while GW doubles down on what is easiest.
@@BearPawSwipeexactly 😂GW will eventually stop having books written about anything other than Space Marines and won't update the lore for them either. BUT HEY at least we can make our own unofficial models right?... You sound disingenuous ASF...
I’d definitely make a major push for more sisters of silence/battle stuff, as I think they’re both incredibly underrated. Plus, after the whole female Custodies debacle, it makes me fear that space marines are gonna get the same treatment.
@@LifeofSquidMann I'm sure Games Workshop will miss all of those people whose sole consumption of 40k is wikis and youtube videos about Space Marines who would be mad if there were women added to the Space Marines.
Now that I think about it, I would love a mix/crossover/illegal parody of warhammer + borderlands, making a sort of grimdank. A story centered around colonizing/recolonizing a world after 1000 or more years after a chaos or ork invasion, so mercenaries hunting squig fauna or raising remains of chaos cults, and if you want to add vaults you could have some necrons or Eldar remains. Or an even dummer setting would be a world inhabited by humans that got separated from the imperium and the "vault hunters" in the end of the story when reaching the vault they send a signal attracting the sight of the big factions like the imperium, chaos, tyranids, orks whatever xd or even everyone at the same time.
Space marine 2 hype may backfire. There are already half confirmed rumors that the game will feature season pass and if there is something players hate more than unfinished "early access" games for full price it is season pass in team games.
Season Pass is just cosmetics and all content like missions , weapons ,story content and stuff is free. There really isn't anything to whine about. Other than the game is about Space Marines 😂
Season passes already confirmed to be just cosmetic I couldn’t care less if they want to do that it sure beats loot boxes that inherently make a difference in gameplay with better weapons stored inside. This game was delayed a year to be sure it comes out the most polished I have a lot of confidence in this game and the way it’s set up
It’s funny because up until today the only thing I knew about war hammer was the space marines and the diff legions and chapters. After watching your 1 hour long video on the timeline, I’ve come to realize how vast and expansive the series is. While the big 8 foot knights with giants tank destroying guns is cool af. The world building and different factions of warhammer is what really stand out to me personally after learning more lore.
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Honestly I'm a bit disappointed by what we've seen in the upcoming game, I was looking forward to a nice campaign similar to the prequel but what we have is hub worlds ugh.
To clarify hub worlds don't feel appropriate for a long war where you are constantly fighting to keep your ground, it breaks the immersion most times. I will wait and see just worried. Sorry I know this is off topic.
@weshammer also love your channel, dawg, and see you in Space Marine 2 BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!
@@imnotgivingyoumyname810 Tbf that's the basic design of xcom style games and I feel that the hub design worked for them. Of course, the narrative does have to account for that fact and ensure that the missions end with us making appropriate progress against the nids.
05:57 saying that GW is "percentage wise more profitable than Google" is GROSSLY misleading. Google's annual profit in 2023 was Over 305 BILLION U$D. While GWs was Less than 0,6 Billion U$D. You make it sound like GW is rolling in more dough than the Top G. Dude they're not even in the same ballpark. They're not even in the same part of town.
I think your community might wanna give it another go, a lot of changes have happened and Space Marines only have one problematic detachment (which is seeing adjustments and nerfs again and again, Ironstorm) and xeno races have been quite decent. Orks are eating good, Necrons are quite strong altough I think wraiths, c'thans and a few other units are doing a lot of the work. CSM is not bad, Eldar was really strong, Drukari had been improved with a new department. All this on top of core rules changes. my main army is Dark Angels, deathwing in particular, but I also have Votann and sisters to keep the game fresh for both me and my opponents.
It is a huge shame that darktide didn’t release properly. As a 40k game it could have come out swinging so much harder
For Atoma!
Yeah Darktide is an amazing game with a lot of QoL issues. Great gameplay, terrible systems. Ashame it has taken them almost 2 years to even get close to addressing these issues.
That game has a severe case of Fatshark.
Lackluster update, the devs are busy slacking off rather than working
that's just fatshark being fatshark they pulled the same shit with vermintide one and two.
It was good a few months back, after Xmas 2023, when my gaming friends and I picked it up cheap in a sale, and we formed a team.
I played a lot around march 2024, and if it had been in that state when it was released, it could have been a big hit.
The developers really shot themselves by releasing it when it was unpolished and buggy as hell. They would be rolling in cash if they'd had their act together and not treated the buying public as Beta testers.
It and Cyberpunk 2077 should be object lessons in the industry, while Balders Gate 3 and Helldivers 2 point at them and laugh.
"Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only space marines."
The 40K universe exists precisely because of the hubris of "progress".
It feels like GW is compartmentalizing the 40K universe until the only conflict is Ultramarines vs. Dark Ultramarines. It'll just be a Halo Deathmatch.
"You mean it's all just red vs blue?"
"Always has been"
👨🚀🔫👨🚀
Yeah it's something we've been complaining about for years, it's like they just ignored xenos in the books and it's sad
I'd just like more Mechanicus and Astra Telepathica stuff.
Got a soft spot for the humble human psyker.
@DogseatDogs Plus any army that relies on weight of numbers gets very expensive, very quickly to accumulate enough plastic crack to leverage their 'non-elite' stats.
So orks, nids and IG are well into some big money to get enough of the little guys- its not that I don't think Custodes, Grey Knights and all that are pretty cool for smaller model-count armies, just that its not what everyone wants to play either just to get some table time.
This is not a new problem either. The fact that SpaceMarine subfactions had codexs about them as far back as 3rd edition eating releases when they are literally less than 1000 dudes in a galactic wide setting, should have set the tone for how much special treatment GW gives them.
The Primaris line was introduced solely to get people to repurchase their armies because they produced so many kits over the years their was literally no way to produce more because every possible niche was covered.
Welcome to capitalism. They sell more. What did you expect?
All i want are new dark eldar beast master and noise marines😊
It is the year 2040, the new space marine chapter release was once again a raging success for GW. With that Codex they are now close to finishing all 1000 SM chapters. Bill rummages through the old GW storage room and stops. That's odd, what is this? In the very corner there is a shelf with boxes. He wipes away the thick dust on the sign of the shelf. XENOS it says. He blows away the dust on the boxes. Thats odd. On it are models that are clearly GW design, yet they.... are not of space marines! He frowns, thinking back on all the space marine books he has read over the years. Never had he come across descriptions of figures that look like the models in front of him. Everyone knows it has always just been space marines vs space marines. An ever ongoing war of infighting. Was he to believe that there were OTHER factions in the universe as well? No that couldn't be, that would be to absurd. After all he had kept up with every new release of GW over the years. It has always just been Space Marines. 💀
non space marine faction!? *THATS HERESY!*
LOL a bit exaggeration but kinda fun
Bill gets an eerie sensation that what he is holding in his hands is forbidden knowledge. Dark knowledge. Secrets best kept buried. Briefly, so feint he isn't sure it really happened, a crow behind a purple velvet appears before his mind's eye, and he is left with a feeling of uncertainty, as if the world is not right. Quickly he decides that this box of heretical figures must be burnt. Games Workshop is a Space Marine company and nothing else. If the existence of other Games Workshop models were revealed it would cause untold damage to the shareholders.
The Horus Heresy novels have had an INCALCULABLE effect on 40k. Notice how when newer entrants into the hobby talk about "warhammer lore" they'll so often really just talk about HH events, names of characters in there. The primarchs. There used to be a somewhat strong presence of later founding chapters, like the Crimson Fists and such, but nowadays it seems A LOT of players think of space marines almost entirely in terms of legions, which I suspect is a carry-over from first being introduced to space marines through HH lore.
Being able to focus on an ongoing narrative with recurring characters has clearly made the setting A LOT more interesting to lots of people. Now, personally, I prefer when 40k is a sandbox, I prefer when it is vast and unknowable and you have lots of different conflicts taking place around the place, and there isn't really an ongoing narrative beyond the initial setup, but clearly a lot of people prefer it to have ONE BIG STORY and it to revolve a limited cast of main characters. And GW has learnt that, I worry. They'll bring back the Primarchs, they'll make the 42nd millennium a continuation of their family drama. Everything else will be side stories.
It's the same trap Star Wars fell down into. They had this whole vast galaxy they could have explored, but everyone already knew about the Skywalkers, so more Skywalker-centric stories it is. Everyone knows what Tatooine is, so somehow the characters will end up on Tatooine for some reason, etc.
Maybe it will be a passing trend, I don't know, but it does bum me out. ELDAR USED TO BE A CORE FACTION FFS.
The woke bullshit ruined starwars
@@hibbidyjibbidyy This conversation isn't about wokeism, take it somewhere else.
@@nakenmil Woah... based
The lore will be changed...we do not have to change with it.
And I get the Eldar point....there used to be more than just 'and then Eldrad was somehow involved' or 'the Avatar was merced by the character of the week and a bunch of eldar got killed which was somehow tragic'.
I got into the hobby through my brothers White Dwarf magazines, Eldar vs Dark Eldar were the featured battle report. Tau were all over the other WD as they were being introduced. They were exciting times for the hobby, I mean this is back when all the Primarchs combined probably added up to a paragraph of lore, ignoring the Horus/Sanguinius and Rogal Dorn Codex Astartes stuff.
Now I mean no offense, but all the who is the tallest primarch stuff, what is Corax up to, who the fuck cares? They are such a small part of the setting. The Eldar have met the Tau fucking once. Once.
I may hate elves, but their models are inexcusable
I think they look fabulous 💅
@@sosomadmantheir models are older than adults you know. They’re not in a good spot by any measure.
@@chillchinna4164 I think I saw someone say that Warp Spiders haven't been updated since 2nd edition
@@inquisitorgrynthebandito2736 they haven't. Neither have the Pheonix Lords. Both model lines are twice the age of your average Space Marine player.
Drukhari Witches make me want to like pain.
I just wish they would give the Imperial Guard a bit more than "you held out until the Space Marines showed up" stories.
You are absolutely right on that. I love Imperial guard books and I believe that with their massive untold trillions of Guardsman fighting in the wars against the enemies of the Imperium they deserve a much better representation no only in their own books but while being described in Space Marine Novels as well. There is clearly a difference when you read about the Imperial guard in their own novel and when they are simply secondary characters in a space marine Novel.
You mean "They held out until the planet cracked and even after it". Guardsmen already got their hands full of epic, thats why i play them in DoW instead of my man's the Ultramarines.
First and Only, has little to no space marines and almost exclusively follows a group of guardsmen that resolve the action of the books themselves
I run a regiment of imperial guard closely modeled after the dkok. Except I took 1_35 scale German vehicles and built them into conversions for my troopers. They are not codex but they are fun. Imagine a 1/32 scale tiger royal now put a battle cannon, a predator hatch, a flamer ,and a pintel mounted heavy bolter on it. Fun.
They need to get their prices under control. When i started a tac squad was 35 dollars. 60 for an intercessor unit is ridiculous. The most expensive things were terminators and a land raider, they were 50.
As a star wars legion player, looking at the prices absolutely baffles me. I can get a heavy vehicle or 2 whole units for the price of one set of 6 warhammer minis. The problem with warhammer is that people will continue to pay the higher price, so why stop increasing?
The Infinite and the Divine proves that great storytelling with Xenos as protagonists is possible and profitable. It's a book that comes up as a top 3 to recommend to a newcomer. Aeldari, Leagues of Votann or Tau just need a great author to work their magic. Particularly Elves are so much more popular in other franchises because the writing is better. Black Library may only be 1% of GW profits, but it's hard to gauge how much those book have an effect on what models you buy. And ultimately, using those novels to create a cinematic universe will be the greatest money maker in end. More Xenos please!
The King spittin facts.
Perhaps I could have some lieutenant style models for my xenos armies. A big boss, a shas'el, or a necron lord perhaps?
Eldars need an author that doesn't hate Eldars
I'll add the Twice Dead King to that as well. Turns out existential ancient ghost trapped in metal bodies with biological consciousness conflicted with a mechanical body leads to more interesting writing than big guy with gun shoots bad thing.
Cough cough Gav thorpe Cough!@@indrickboreale7381
Hmmm... Warhammer needs an a batshit insane animated series from the point of view of the Orks.
There’s at least a really good episode of Hammer and Bolter with Orks
Yes. Please. Would love to see ork shenanigans in animated form!
That would be amazing
A video game would awesome too
Bro, Eldar don't even get books. And I'm not even an Eldar player. But give people more reason to have interest in them. They might be a problem on TTG but that's really only if you're playing a sweat. In that case, you're either sweating yourself or got one game of pain. But those happen in any kind of game. But the Harlequins are dope af. I'd love full animation or novel about them. Or even the craftworlds. Ive been in the hobby for years and I still feel like I don't know shit about them relative other factions. I understand necrons better (Szarekh bless them) but they haven't even been in the setting as long. Especially when you consider the huge retcon to their culture and personality
We walked into the local Warhammer official store yesterday to look at starter kits. They tried upselling us to the $300 kit for like 15 or 20 plastic figures (unpainted, unassembled) with no paint and no tools.
It would have cost us around $500 for the kit and some paint/tools. All just for the starter kit. This is not what we asked for, it's what the worker was trying to upsell us.
We went to another local store and got a complete Tau scout infantry kit AND a marine dreadnaught, packaged sealed, for less than $100.
The prices are insane for unpainted plastic kits, reguardless of the quality of the plastic.
Looking at the warhammer official website I initially thought the prices were for full painted minis, which I could see as being reasonable if not low balled. But $30-40 for max 6 unpainted and unassembled plastic minis?? Nah they got me fucked up with that, I closed out amd never looked back lol
This is one of the reasons I will never join the tabletop community for this series. Ima just read the books
Most people who aren't blindly loyal or independently wealthy 3d-print models and borrow/pirate books (at least as far as people I know personally). 40k is a great IP and we like it. GW is an indignantly self-righteous and maliciously greedy corporation who use the most reprehensible and predatory marketing practices to benefit as much as possible at our expense and we hate it. As soon as enough people do this, and it ceases to be profitable to act like a cartoonishly greedy and evil villain, they will stop their bullshit and not a moment before.
The ultimate starter kit is 210 for 44 models sounds like you should shop elsewhere.
Sounds like you had a problem with that shop. Not the hobby in general. Nobody forced you to buy them lol
Games workshop can be summarized by one ork from Space Marine 1. “I AiNt dOnE wiT yOU yeT sPacE mARinE”
"I ain't so easy to kill (laughs silently)"
Man he's the best Ork character I've ever seen
“Don’t you know who I am?! I’m Boss Grimskull! THIS WHOLE PLANET IS MINE!!!” *ahahahhaha*
He was great, but so was Gorgutz in the Dawn of War games - legendary
Its easy to say that complain now. Just wait for all these complains to die out for months while the whole franchise talks about the return of jagathai.
Then look the fans try to not look like a bunch of hypocrates once they realize how much they boosted the white scars *SP* sales.
@@leandrocastello309 I have never once bought a Space Marine, and the only ones I've painted have been a handful of dismembered ones for the bases of my Orks and Guard.
I feel more like GW is more yelling to the fans "GET OFF MY SHIP SPACE MARINE."
It's always been a problem. From the very beginning Space Marines were painted as mythic warriors of legend, only spoken of as a fairy tale by the vast majority of the imperium, but then *gestures broadly at everything...
Space Marines should have stayed as mythic warriors of legend, symbols of a bygone era. A niche faction or a limited specialist unit for other imperial armies but their awe & majesty spoken of as near divine.
@helline9 yeah but then how much more of warhammer would have be scaled down? Necrons and the silent king much smaller, chaos crusades etc. Otherwise the imperium would just get steamed rolled
There are 1 million space marines in the galaxy. They aren't the bulwark of the Imperium's defense. They have nothing to do with Titans, Knights etc etc.
Lore wise they are so small they would be insignificant. But yet, here we are, they show up everywhere and influence everything. There are over 1 million colonised imperial worlds that all have their own standing armies. That is one Space Marine per world.
The space marines started out as the imperium beat cops. All the mythic warrior stuff came later.
Back in the Rouge Trader days and even up until maybe half way through 2nd edition The Space Marines were like the Imperial Guard. Then about half way through 2nd Ed's life cycle they introduced the Imperial Guard as its own faction and doubled down on the mythic aspects of the Space Marines and they became TransHuman demigods. The first Space Marines were very very different from the Space Marines of today
You forgot the other problem. As a new player I feel overwhelmed by space marines options. I can't make heads or tails of what to buy for black templars. I want to build them but feel lost. So I went with what models I think look cool and am building adepta sororitas. But yeah I want black templars but feel like it takes so much research
They added Legues of Votan 2 years ago and, as far as I know they STILL don't have a lore book.
The brand new faction, with a brand new model range, dose not have a lore book to hype the range. Yet we STILL get more Space Marines
Whats that i hear, the people want another Lieutenant?
It gets worse when you think it took 20 years to reintroduce the squats... x/
women custodes are obviously much more important than space dwarfs,
(I just want Tunder Warriors models🥲)
Honestly I think they messed up the Leagues. They aren't nearly dwarfy enough. There is the parody, bombastic, fun side of 40K that is being neglected. I don't want more generic sci-fi factions. I want the bearded boozin' squats who always mine too deep. They should embrace it rather than try to be so serious.
@@kevinfrost7180 i think if they were going to make thunder warrior models they would've at the start of the heresy bud
I remember reading the "Priests of Iron" omnibus which was supposed to be an admech centric story about an explorator fleet. Half the book focused on a rogue trader from Ultramar who took any opportunity to gush about Ultramarines or that one time he stood relatively close to Cato Sicarius' personal bubble and most of the other half was about *six* Black Templars, including a scene that infuriates me more than almost anything I've ever read: A Techpriest who's studied every martial art known to mankind and was so deadly with his meticulously crafted cybernetic body he got a nickname for killing a catachan monster losing an honor duel to a rookie space marine.
The general rule of thumb is that if it isn't a space marine novel, it's a space marine novel in disguise.
The Great Work - which was mentioned in the Video - has Cawl and Qvo as AdMech characters. Everyone else is a Space Marine.
I was agreeing with you until I got to the end. Unnamed space marines are gonna be able to man handle just about anything one on one in melee combat. It’s kind of their thing particularly Black Templars.
@@Cyd98If an Eldar aspect warrior can kill a space marine, hyper-augmented humans could defeat one in an honor duel
@@Vankodek there’s always a chance, it’s just very low
@@Cyd98 if a fucking *ork* can kill a veteran space marine, then the super kitted out martial artist cyborg could probably win a play duel against a noob.
12:11 that anecdote sums up the 40K hobby for me perfectly, building, painting and all. You take breaks when the fire leaves ya, but then something strikes the flames again and you come back with a vengeance for a while.
My greatest problem with 40k is too few Noise Marines and Harlequins.
Agreed for Noise Marines
@@rolling-roadkill agreed for harlequins
Definitely backing you up on the Harlequins, they're not even they're own army any more and our one named model is in the SoB army.
Tips one out for Doomrider.
For real the harlequins need more love
This is why I respected Owlcat Games. Yes they added a space marine to the roster, but not until the ass end of act 3 in a 4 act game. Rogue Trader really sold the universe of 40k. I can also say the same for Darktide after the course correction. Not a SM in sight.
But he is still in the game😂
@@Troupe_Master yes but given that your crew at this point is quite varied. It he is present but not important.
@@biscoto3201 hell before you register that he's an Ulfar of the Space Wolves he's more or less just a big ol' flesh eater in the pits. Plus he's not the stoic, Ultramarine image of a SM either. He's got that "I will drink you under the table" attitude and fits in quite well.
Next Darktide update: Death Guard Plague Marine is a boss
Same, I love Rogue Trader. You get this super unique and fascinating group of characters that show off so much of the setting and why it's great. Love Cassia, love Heinrix, love Pasqal... Ulfar's also a great include, since yes, he is a Space Marine, but he's a Space Marine with character who has struggles both internal and external and I really found myself loving the guy, without him becoming a plot black hole.
Even as a black Templar player, I hate the lack of attention given to all the other factions, I'd really love to see more models for all the other factions.
I love 40K and SM... but FFS we need FAR more stuff about the Xenos and Human factions. It's unbearable
I feel if they did this, it would just be them getting their asses kicked by space marines.
@Tacoguy1000 Yeah, but at least they would exist, even if narrative speaking new stuff is ass and in rules they suck, even a couple new cool looking modles per faction would be a very nice change compared to SpaceMarine ad infinitum.
Its a conendrum.
The more the market Space Marines, the more they are popular, the more they are popular the more they are marketted.
Amen!
What sucks to is, as scary as the Tyranids, chaos, and Necrons are in the lore, they also are used as punching bags for space marines.
How do we show how strong this Space Marine is? Make him 1v1 the Avatar of Khaine. Everybody cheers.
I don't play Warhammer, but have been listening to the Lore from Lutin, Wes, etc. for over a year now. So I don't know everything, but I understand the horror that is a Hive Fleet. That being said, the Imperium will most always be on the winning side because, well, they're "humans." It's fun to read the stories where a Necron 1v50s some SMs but it's never going to be something that is printed all that often because most readers wouldn't relate all that much to it other than perhaps if you main Necrons, or whatever race you may play in the tabletop. I think that's the point Wes here was trying to make too. The bases of the fans is growing more bias toward SMs which is a natural aspect of having SMs on the side of humanity. Its a slippery slope, they need to find a way to make those stories relatable to a broader audience.
Too true. Tyranids should be much harder or easier with more models. Something!
Necrons definitely need to be tougher.
Exactly, tyrannids SHOULD be the scariest faction in the game, but every time they show up it’s just to be cannon fodder for whatever named space marine the book is talking about
"You will own nothing but space marines and be happy" - The demon they summoned in Nottingham
Klaus Schwab? Haha
nothing ever happens
As an Ad mech fanboy I wish we got more named characters instead of just Cawl
But don't you love your stilt-boy reusing 90% of stuff that already existed on the end of sprue legs?
I’d love a Qvo model to accompany Cawl. Too cool an idea to let sit in the books only. Ironically id like to see primus too, but I’d be happy to not get yet another marine, just think it’d be a unique character to run in AdMech armies.
I think the unfortunate reality of the 40k narrative is that it will always follow what is most profitable for the tabletop. So if space marines are what sell the most then we'll get space marines
But it’s self fulfilling as if all you sell is space marines then…
@@wephilips6651 you’re just gonna get more space marines. GW is a business first before anything else, so regardless of what people say they are always going to follow the money (which is space marines)
@@wephilips6651 It's a feedback loop.
None of it will change because GW wanted SMs to be the posterchild for the tabletop and made them the jack of all trades, meaning they're the easiest to learn, meaning most newcomers stuck with them, meaning that the demand went up while the other armies went down, meaning people keep buying SMs in bulk so GW keeps pandering to it which makes them keep SMs as the posterchild.
Rinse and repeat.
I sit here with like my three or four new tyranid models just happy I have my Bugs
Until there's nothing left for the space Marines to fight, and it all collapses.
I haven't played the tabletop in a while so I didn't know it had gotten that extreme on the imperium side. This feels like a bubble that'll bust, and the tabletop scene will be difficult to rebuild. But if gets built in the first place, it can be rebuilt.
"Imagine if 80% of new people joining the game play space marines"
Damage 3 spam list goes brrr even harder than before.
I'm a total noob to 40k and I'm trying to absorb as much of the lore and I kind of like the Orcs..simple brutal
Orks rule dude. They’re simple, but so fucking awesome and funny. They also have the coolest power in universe…. Belief into reality is just cooler than the other psykers.
For all the hype Primarch models generate in 40k, its sooo bad for the lore and overall development of new model lines. Returning Primarchs are like black holes that suck all the attention and story of the whole world of 40k toward them, no one cares what if an Aeldari / Nurgle / Necron warband is doing something to advance the story, its all about what the Primarchs are doing. Just slowly becoming Horus Heresy.
Nobody gave a shit about what the Tau or Eldar were doing even before the Primarchs came back.
@@Xero_Kaiser because there no f@ing good book about them. How can some one care about some thing that doesn't exist
@@Xero_Kaiserbecause you don't like them but other people do 😂 40k has millions of fans and they all love many factions in case you were too ignorant to notice
@@PetrygaLiades-mn6rospeaking of that, have the leagues of votann done anything big yet? I can't remember anything since their release
That is not a new development. I played Warhammer first 20 years ago and even their was Space Marines the most supported Faction. Most Books, Models in every Starting Box, always a fresh Codex. It has never changed a lot.
Oh and please put Nurgle not in the same basket with the other ones. Death Guard is the most flesh out Traitor Legion and they get a lot of lore and books.. The whole Plague War are 5? Novels about Nurgle.
If I had creative control, I would make a Silent King novel series (at least a trilogy), about the Necron civil war, the Silent King vs Imotekh. And of course, which side Necron characters choose to side with.
I would have the Craftworld Eldar making plans to assassinate the Silent King. At the same time, High Marshal Helbrecht of the Black Templars is seeking revenge on Imotekh.
Lastly, I would have the Tau be the wild card faction, where there’s a Necron dynasty still sleeping on one of their worlds. And both the Silent King and Imotekh want to get to that dynasty, for they can turn the tide of the civil war.
That’s what I would want to do.
Oh my god that would be amazing! I honestly cannot believe we haven't gotten a silent king book. A third book in The twice Dead King series would be great too as it kind of sorta ended on a cliffhanger... Even if the main characters story came full circle. If you know you know 😅
I would LOVE this… please GW!
Personnally, I would also make a trilogy about Abaddon and another one about Asurmen and/or the Phoenix Lords...
Gotta push on the big players. B)
(Oh, and that last Ynnarii book where they have to plan a heist in Slaanesh's Palace.)
I wish we got more books and games on the T'au. Especially on all the different Xenos species that comprise it. Like we don't even have pictures for more than half of them. Not to mention if they found even more new species, it would be awesome to see the creativity for the types of lifeforms they'd create.
As a new collector of Space Marines, my biggest issue isn't the 11 different poses of lieutenants. The problem is the vast product line you need to collect to have a complete army.
It's a subscription service
I feel the same. There is just so many options. Different units that all look slightly different, do slightly different things, and all have different weapon loadouts. For an army that is supposed to be new player friendly there is a daunting number of options and it's easy to pick a loadout and figure out later you should of built them differently.
Like I built 6 aggressors with flamers before I learned about the apothecary biologis combo. Also built incursors instead of infiltrators from my BA combat patrol and later wished I'd have done infiltrators when my buddy hypercrypted a monolith into my deployment zone.. the incursors have been.... less then useful.
Id like to see a battlefield style game following a Guard regiment stuck in the horror of a 40k battlefield vs really any faction
Hell yes, but would probably have to be guard vs heretics or nerf the guns of the tau as an opposing team if it were to be balanced
I think a 40k game that follows the format Star Wars Battlefront 2 had would be amazing. You play as a grunt and earn points and with enough points you get to then play as a special class/character. Space Marine, SoB, Tech-Priest, and the same for the other factions.
The cherry on top would be if you could make the game to be of a scale similar to that of Planetside 2
@@pyerack Been saying this for a long ass time. I'd play the shit outta that.
That's what I've been thinking for the past year, guardsman vs necrons or tyranids or orks or any chaos like nurgle or all that got mentioned for replayability. no micro at all best idea ever money every where
Helldivers style PvE against different factions would be awesome
I heard someone's hot take that Darktide should've had space marines fighting a genestealer cult and tyranids, in my head I yelled 'just go play Death Wing or Space Marine 2 when it comes out. We need more representation, there's too many space marines!' I honestly didn't think I would find this video talking about too many space marines
The audacity of that person! What makes darktide so special is it's cast of characters!
Yeah, prisoners loyal to the Emperor fighting for attonment under Inquisitorial banner going from just a prisoner on parol to being part of the warband. I also find it more appealing to play as regular people or marginally regular since the psyker and ogryn ate abhumans. I always liked the guard and admechs even though space Marines were what drew me in to 40k
I just wish it had more story stuff. Maybe now it does I haven't played in a while.
I think a plague marine would have been a cool boss in darktide
Honestly, the fact that it wasn't about Space Marines is what drew me to Darktide and by extension actually got me interested in the universe.
Honestly 10 edition is a reason why a good majority of players, myself and my friend group included, moved over to horus heresy. If there is gonna be space marine vs space marines battle we might as well play horus heresy with each legions having their own rules.
This comment is just pure truth, although 9th edition had a fair bit of book keeping the trade off in depth was awesome. 10th edition feels like Warhammer with training wheels attached compared to HH 2.0
My Brother in Christ... When I played in the 2000's and 2010's, 35% of players played Ultramarines... Not just Space Marines, but that Specific Chapter... Space Marines have been "Oversaturated" in the Setting for quite some time.
I remember in 2010 the GW shop near me had setup an event for a large scale battle between the Imperium vs Xenos (just for fun). However they had to change it to Space Marines vs everyone else and they *still* had to have a couple of SM players on the "Xenos" side because so many people play Space Marines.
You really didn’t say anything with this, he is just saying that it’s a huge issue because that’s all Warhammer really is nowadays
I agree with you wes and honestly i would like to see them explore the Tau and eldar a smidge, as well as i would like to them write about the dark age of technology and age of strife.
There used to be a time when Space Marines would get multiple codices per edition while many prominent factions had to wait a decade or so for an update (and sometimes even then, like with Sisters, the "update" was a lackluster White Dwarf index). No new models, no quarterly balance updates, nothing. Dark Eldar had precisely three plastic kits (the Ravager and Asdrubael Vect kits were just Raiders with extra metal bits) from 1998 to their range refresh in 2010. The only reprieve from near-total neglect the Guard could hope to have until their 2007 range refresh and brand spanking new codex that everyone else complained was broken was Forge World's Imperial Armor books (not to mention that most of the Guard's miniature releases between 1998 and 2007 were new metal regiments that basically consisted of an infantry squad, a heavy weapons team, and a command squad. The current plastic Catachan Jungle Fighter sculpts haven't been updated in over 25 years). Sisters were still using metal models from 2nd edition until *they* got a full range refresh in 8th edition over 20 years later. Space Marines, however, got new models and codices with every edition, often more than once.
This was something ive been terrified of since they brought back a Guilliman.
No other story line will bring as much Hype as a primarch returning.
So, theyll want to bring the others back 1 by 1 to cause big flux's in attention
But once theyre all back.. where do they go from there?
The only place left to go, is the End Times
>Russ' last words before vanishing were "At the end I will be there. For the final battle. For the Wolftime."
>All but confirmed to be the next Primarch to return
Yeah it's over. Better hope they renovate HH into 40k Old World.
Umm no fuck? 😂 you think the civil war is going to end in rainbows and hugs?
They have been hinting at that for a while they saying the future is chaotic and in ruins
_"Aww, shit... Here we go again..."_ x/
Don't worry, I'm sure they can just 'reset' the franchise like Marvel did. They they can retell the HH all over again! But more diverse this time, quote unquote.
I can only hope that the new players have the exact same experience that i did, walking into a store to look over the models, walking past all the samey space marines, and then they see a stompa and go "well i have to play this faction, they have the biggest chainsword!"
What kinda sucks about this is we don’t even have certain space marine Legions. Let me have Raven Guard without having to buy upgrade kits a/or awkwardly buy boxes that I’ll only partially use.
This, 100%
Video: Space Marines get too many kits.
This guy: Yeah, but what if they got more kits, tho?
Yes. Give us more Eldar. Give us more kins of the Leagues. Give us more Orks. Give us more Tau. Love the beakies, but they do feel over used.
As someone not playing or building, only reading/watching the lore: I think it's precisely the diversity of grim dark of the 40K universe that makes it attractive. And while I don't build or play the TT, I can easily imagine people being bored of painting and playing the n-th instance of slightly different but mostly same minis.
I want an Eldar game thats like Space Marine 2 and you play different paths and go in missions with their own story and everything
It'll never happen because 'Spesch Marwine!'
I would also like this, if done well!
Won't make sense if doesn't sell good, Space marine are the poster boys of wh40k. someone who's uninterested in 40k or unfamiliar with it probably still knows about space marines.
It's the only thing that could bring me back to playing things based on 40k.
My game store is in a similar position where its like 90% Space Marines players. When I got into the game during 9th and told everyone Id be playing Tau, everyone cheered cause everyone is just sick and tired of the Space Marine mirror.
I think for now GW going full Space Marine is profitable, but I do think in the longrun, it's just not profitable. So sure, GW got away with Primaris to basically sell Space Marine players their own army to themselves, but eventually, eventually, the well will run dry again. This is unsustainable at this rate. Then what? Add Cawls twin brother, Belarosias Bawl and he came up with Primaris Marines.... 2!
Ultra primaris marines! Oh wait... they have those already
Fish face
As a newer 40k fan i have to say that the sapce marine lore is what brought me here. I love all of their lore however, i understand the fear of it becoming the space marine show. I do think they are a centerpiece and even the "hook" that snags newcomers but without the rest of the factions and their lore, space marines would be nothing without the fear of the true horrors that 40k factions experience. Without fear there can be no courage no ambitions no loss or failure. Hearing the stories of other factions and everyday life in the imperium and other races is what makes this universe and i hope to learn more of it while sprinkling in space marine lore every now and again.
I want to play a 4X Necron game.
A Tyranid Evolution/Gene Loadout Roguelite.
An Astra Militarum RTS.
HiveCitybuilder
Noise Marine rhythm game
The Grey Knights XCOM-Like that came out a couple of years ago was an excellent usage of the IP.
We could have a Hero Shooter with our favorite figures in the lore.
There's literally no end to the variety they could put out.
Eldar Witcher game.
I second the Tyranid Evolution roguelite, that'd be a great kinda thing to see and would be interesting to see.
Or the XCOM-like game with there being Guardsmen/Planetary Defense Guardsmen against a Genestealer Cult or something of the sort.
It seems like mechanicus 2 will have playable necrons. Not exactly a 4X game like gladius relics of war but it is something new for the necrons.
Started to notice this like 5 years ago
I initially started with Marines, like everyone
But then saw Chaos and thought 'so i get the space marines, but more options, variety in model types, funky magics, even daemons!'
But over the years.. the Chaos line expanded ny like 2 options.
And marines kept getting more and more variety
To the point it was feeling like they were just getting re-skins of the unique chaos stuff i liked
Gunpla fans have been suffering from this as well.
You are spot on with the re-skins, in reality GW could just sell weapon upgrade sprues for the intercessor boxes and call it a day but they make more money selling a different kit. Personally, I don't care since I have a 3D printer and can just buy a single intercessor box and magnetize for all the options. Tournament legal too as most of the model is GW. Sucks for those that don't have a 3D printer but they get cheaper and cheaper so GW is going to have problems if they don't change.
Not everyone started with Space Marines 😭
@@Aneerah Started with Eldar, and have stuck with them for 23 years now. I did branch out into their dark cousins, and at the start of 10th ed. Sisters of Battle as well, but yeah, not everyone starts with Space Marines.
When I moved to my current hometown 23 years ago, my cousin had just started with 40k and played Marines. For lack of other friends I went to the local store with him, and once I saw the Eldar battleforce (the ancient one with a Falcon in it) I was sold. That tank was, and remains, the prettiest bit of sci-fi tech I had ever seen.
I am just starting I picked the Orks if it was not them I would of went with Chaos Daemons
It's not that all other factions deserve representation, it might even be damaging if you represent a faction to closely as it kills the mystery. Did I love The infinite and the divine. Yes, I read it twice in quick succession. Did it remove a lot of what was creepy about the Necrons? Yes, it absolutely did. I remember playing the Dawn of War games ages ago, the Necrons were quite frightening and intense as a adversary. I can't remember being affected like that in a RTS ever, and The infinite and the divine removed some of that fear. Lore focused on our beloved adversaries or say the age of strife are trickier to get right as you do not want to kill the mystery. Having a book focusing directly on an event in the age of strife would be hugely risky, as an example, writing a book focusing on a mech priest finding a forgotten data bank on the same subject would be much better in my opinion, optimally leading to more questions than answers.
Nids can become more horrorific.
Necrons can awake more war-like models.
Tau can create better armors and suits.
Eldar MUST focus on their gods to fight Chaos and bring their species back. As a consequence, better technology is rediscovered.
Dark Eldar could become "Chaos Eldar" by accepting Slaanesh as their fate to then expand to the rest of the Dark Gods in desperation to save themselves.
Orks should get a feral look yet get better weapons and armors since there could be less Warbosses but far stronger and "Intelligent"
IG must get better equipment ASAP. Maybe the Dwarves can help
On behalf of the dark eldar please no. Keep the slaanesh bs away. We don’t need slaanesh to survive.
What's your point
@@emiledupuis545 That GW is currently need better imaginative writers with like-mindedness all while not afraid to potentially offend anyone and I mean anyone to deliver better products, so they can organically expand their lore
EVEN CHINESE GACHA GAMES FROM A CERTAIN COMPANY HAVE WAY BETTER LORE BUILDUP THAN THEM, in just shorter amount of years
Space Marines have essentially been written into a corner. Before the primaris upgrade, the lore had the Astartes using war gear 10k years old with no technological innovation, so every time GW tried to introduce a new unit or vehicle it became "of course we can use the Deus Ex Machia Mk II that we've had for the last 10 thousand years and just haven't deployed before." After the primaris introduction, it's much easier to introduce new models and vehicles, but lore wise it still crashes against a setting where technological innovation is literally Heresy and can get you burned at the stake or worse. Writers can, of course, write stories about other factions without changing anything fundamental to their lore or technology, but that won't let GW sell more models. There's a huge difference between writing good stories and writing stories to sell products, and GW is focused on the latter. WH40k lore has become the equivalent of the Saturday morning cartoon show that only exists to sell action figures.
Disagree about the Drukhari, we don´t need more chaos there is enough of that already.
But there are things they could do with the Drukhari.
The demons have invaded Commeragh through Khanes gate.
The Drukhari have no weapons against them, in their desperation they tried to get a DNA sample of the Emperor wanting to clone him, to use his might to once again push the demons out.
Well it failed.
So the Drukhari now have to use different methods, so we could see new horrifying creations from the Drukhari, things that where created ot try and stop the demons but failed and are now being used on the battlefield to kidnap even more people.
Either that or just give us all our old characters back.
I still think the amazon show shouldnt be about the horus heresy. I really want it to be about the guardsmen fighting a brutal battla with no hopes of survival.
Have it start out as every movie. Introduce a character, quickly tell us about him and his motivation, make the audience believe after the first few minutes he is the main character.
And then kill him off in the most brutal way. Just the first 10 minutes are normal and then hit us with the brutal reality of the w40k universe. Would be kinda funny if henry cavil would play this quick role
Eh...at a certain point you end up with the Walking Dead or Game of Thrones problem where you're so busy subverting expectations and proving that "nobody's safe" that you end up killing off all the characters people actually give a shit about.
No, that would be dumb.
@@ArthurLivesOnwhat do you hope happens?
@@Xero_Kaiser....welcome to Warhammer 40,000
@@Dyno2999 There's no specific thing that I hope happens, there is just a list of things that may be cool. There is a near endless supply of interesting events and characters that could be involved, so many that I can't really just choose one. I am more of the mind of "wait and see". As Kaiser said though, OP's idea is too reminiscent of Gome of Thrones and The Walking Dead, both shows that started good but became massively disappointing and stale.
The "loose ends" of the heresy is the scouring, that light at the end of the tunnel is just a stormbolter firing more books.
I would love to see books about the War in Heaven, but if the Leagues of Votann do not get a book soon I will riot.
LOL right as I was saying in my head: "OH AND DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE LACK OF ANYTHING RELATED TO THE LEAGUE OF VOTANN," you say "can we get a freakin' Votann novel?"
You get me, Wes. You get me.
That’s why in a lot of my videos I always try to read human or Zeno’s perspective, rarely ever do I ever focus on space marines. While I love them, it gets annoying over time..
Yes but how many space marines could a space marine, space marine if a space marine could space Marine, space Marines?
bout 3 fiddy
@@TheShadow6391 lol too funny too early, almost spit my coffee out
69
A space marine marines a space marine in space I think.
@@Altrantis bwhaha, exactly
I completely agree with your opinion on this WES there is so much more to be explored. Instead of continuing to bring chapters and primarchs back, they should look into killing some off. To me, a sense of impermanence in 40k would be a good thing, kill off a successor chapter every once in awhile. I feel it would keep people more engaged and wondering. Just like in game of thrones, they did a good job at showing no one is safe, and also telling the story from so many different angles , not just the most "popular" ones. I myself am a player of space Marines. But first and foremost I am a fan of 40k. I feel for and enjoy all factions, and wish everyone had the depth and diversity of content and models that we do.
This is one of my biggest gripes with 40k: they're too afraid to kill characters off who aren't already doomed by canon. Like ...no one is saying you can't use Primaris Marneus Calgar in a game, but Abaddon the Despoiler should have killed him on Vigilus. Doesn't seem very grim dark to have characters with plot armor.
I hope it makes you feel better that I got into 40k after the announcement of SM2 but I gravitated to the Tyranids and other factions more than the SMs.
I would so love if Black Library would let Graham NcNeill loose and write several books on the fall of the Eldar and hopefully not a single mention of a Space Marine.
I hope they never cover the dark age of technology or the war in heaven, but do cover the other things.
If you describe it, it isn't a dark age anymore. It's not a black box of infinite possibility where you can pull out impossible technology to make a point about what changed.
And the war in heaven, if ever described, needs to be told like a myth. Light on detail, light on dialogue, heavy on metaphor and exaggeration, no subtlety at all, 200% ham and tropes. It's gotta be right up there with the Illiad or The Romance of the 3 Kingdoms.
Because if it ever gets told remotely grounded, same deal as the dark age of technology. It stops being a thing of myth and legend and "oh fuck, as bad and ridiculous as 40k is, this is just the rubble of an unimaginable golden age long past" which a key part of the vibe of 40k.
Those events need to stay unimaginable. There's plenty of stories to tell from before and after those events to fill 10 lifetimes of lore and models
@@kylejohnson6775 Yeah, those should just remain a myth as it is now.
As someone who makes models for living, primarily focusing on Space Elves / Chaos, I can guarantee you it's only because it sells. They keep making them, because people keep buying them. I have a moderately sized community of fellow Space Elves army / model enthusiasts but nothing compared to those who make Big Space Marine Proxies, that shit sells like hot cakes / gets the likes.
Big Boys sell, plain and simple
Leaf lover
Pretty much. Tactical Marines kit sold more than the entire fantasy line as a whole
@@TheSpaceCowboy06 hahah
@@whichDude 100%
Big Boys sell because big boys get all the fiction and novels and characters.
I'm completely new to Warhammer, I love the idea and aesthetic of DKoK. I understand they have VERY little unit variation. But I found someone selling an engineer squad and I loved it. Then found out they did away with it. And according to lore, their engineers are fucking insane. Digging underground and creating tunnels towards the enemy lines, setting up trenches, bunkers, machine gun pits, artillery etc. I don't see why they did that before I had any time to enjoy them.
Dude, for me, the DKoK embodies the GrimDark. They are the very epitome of it.
Emperor protects
💀
🫲🫱
Here’s something that you didn’t bring up it would be bad if all space marines were forced on us but it’s always the ultra marines or dark angels and a few others but GW has just forgotten about the Iron Hands, Raven Guard etc compared to the others they get nothing it’s always just about the same chapters and that makes it so much worse to me
Yep, it's technically not even a "space marine" problem, it's a "a few chapters GW likes over everyone else" problem.
As a white scars fan I totally get this, our way of doing things on the tabletop is actually better if you run the space Wolves, like what the hell
Sad that the most brilliant, well written, and fun 40k video game title isn't really mentioned in the comments:
Mechanicus
Still need to play that one :P
*toasters*
Best game fr
criminally underrated game and the OST is just amazingly resonant. I already loved turn based games in the vein of XCOM so putting a game like that in the 40k universe was a slam dunk for a player like me. Can't wait for Mechanicus II.
@@jamesh2321i played battle sector and I loved that game so much, and honestly when I heard people talk about Mechanicus I never played it because I thought there’s no way it’s as good as my little Blood Angel babies. But it sounds like I should finally give it a go!
0:22 40 gay community
Represent.
Part of the solution is probably finding ways to make more baseline human-centric table top armies for the setting. Like raiding parties of pirates and gangers who function like a blend of eldar corsairs and orks, or an equivalent to a "neighborhood watch" patrol from a hive city, augmented with some manufactorum workers wielding industrial equipment as heavy weapons, with an Arbites officer as the warlord. Because you're right, space marines aren't really people anymore, and that makes them less compelling as characters. Developing new armies that highlight the contrast of regular people in the absurd monstrosity of the setting could be much more compelling.
They used to kind of do this with the Imperial Guard. They used to have loads of different regiments that had entirely different experiences, beliefs, fighting styles and, most importantly, models. This was initially the case, but this was expensive both in labour and materials, so they condensed the guard into the regiments people bought: the Cadian Shock Troops and the Catachan Jungle Fighters. Now all of the guard is just Cadia barring a few exceptions. Space Marines seem to be doing this exact same thing to the entire hobby.
Bring back varied regiments
Yeah, Space Marines are a problem. Probably the worst really, and the Eldar need actual focus.
pancreasnowork, is that you?
@@squgieman Last I checked, Pancreas doesn't have a Dark Angels army on his shelf.
@@starhammer5247 elves are elves. Pancreas will rightly simp for them all the same
@@dod_the_angel That he will. It's just unfortunate that the elves haven't gotten any new lore in seven years.
Just because you like something doesn't mean your a simp stop being a toxic incel..@@dod_the_angel
As an Aeldari player I agree the other factions could use more love particularly when it comes to their model ranges. As you said some our models are 20-30 years old in terms of the sculpts.
As someone who once wanted to get into the Tabletop, the prices and the lack of Custodes/Tau units in shops turned me off from getting into it. The main shop I visited for models had around 2 dozen different Astartes kits and LITERALLY NO OTHER FACTIONS! The Space Marine Problem is something that will definitely kill the franchise if not fixed IMMEDIATELY.
It's just a money sink, don't do it.
@@pyerack especially now. The tabletop used to be fun even in later editions. It's just getting worse and worse.
If Halo can churn out books about forerunners and ancient humans then 40k can cover some xenos factions just as well.
They didn't though, they did like what, 4 or 5 books that involved them. 40k has dozens of books not about space marines
@@JJJBunney001 ones an older franchise than the other. Halo has been adding more lore to the story line and most of it doesn't even fit or make sense. Alien crab space dust. Endless. Sanshayum-ancient human alliance. What does that have to do with the Human Covenant War?
They literally have non-human focused novels though...
@@pyerack my point is, like weshammer is stating, there's too much focus on space marines. We need more from the 40k universe than brother cornius and captain cringius have a duel to regain "honor"
Those books are garbage tho.
Personal anecdote not at all meant to make a specific point.
I first learned to play 40k with 3rd edition. I then stopped playing at the start of 6th edition due to the same reason so many other people did.
I decided to try to get into tenth edition as a friend of mine was also interested in trying their hand at the game.
Currently, due various reasons, I have 2.5 unopened armies.
One unopened army of 'nids, still in box
One unopened army Eldar, still in box
One half open/half built army of Dark Angles.
So, I started painting my old Dark Angels, hoping to just give them a nice gussy-up.
Half-way through a tac-squad, I saw that basically every mini I planed on painting, had painted, or were still yet-built for my marines, were now not viable in 10th.
So, before jumping the gun, I went to see if what I currently had for Eldar or 'Nids were playable. I didn't need some uber-master-meta list, just viable enough to have at least a chance at winning against another casual army.
Sadly, everything I had had been left behind by the game, so even a casual match against a casual list would probably be a shut out for me.
Yes, 30k and HH are a thing, but they're not the thing either my friend or anyone at my LGS are playing.
So, my options are: Buy a lot of new models, 3D print a lot of new models, convince my one friend to invest in a pair of minimally supported game.
It's not an untenable situation, but I have so many fantastic options right now from other games that I have to ask "Why go through so much effort just to start playing this game, when I'm already happy with the other games in my life?"
So, I just don't play.
I am not conflicted, your fears are grounded.
Us Xeno players where never loved....
You should have known the moment you learned the basics of the 40k universe that the fate of a xeno's fan/player would be miserable...
have you played Rogue Trader by Owlcat? You won't complain about Xenos after that
@@ulquiorraschiffer1956 Can't play orks, not interested.
@@matthewgagnon9426There's FFG's rpg for that.
You know it’s a problem when my main reason for wanting to play space marine 2 is to actually see tyranids in a game
Have you tried Deathhulk: Spacewing
@@BRYSONM96it's just genestealers, it isn't real tyranid army
That's why I'm a bit annoyed that the "real" antagonist of the game is likely going to be chaos. Tyranid fans just can't win...
@@lynco3296 We really need more of the inverse. The story starts off as a Chaos incursion, but then some other threat comes in and kicks both sides asses until the Space Marines pull a victory out of their butts. That'd be more appealing than the inverse that is seen 99% of the time.
Exactly
I totally agree on that. There are tons of cool factions and really simple ways to use the Space Marines as a step to get to them:
Chaos Space Marines are similar enough to get it started and would flesh out the Chaos a bit.
You could start with Space Marines fight off an Orc Invasion just to later find out that it was all orchestrated by the Eldar to avoid something worse and now the arc jumps over to them as they are string to get their crossed schemes uncrossed again.
Write a book about a Space Marine detachment sent to support the Guard and then slowly shift the focus over to the guard. As a matter of fact: This specific scenario would be great to show how inhumane (or transhuman) Space Marines really are when you compare them to ordinary humans.
I don’t trust gw with the war in heaven or anything eldar related, you can thank Thorpe for that and the fact not a single writer at bl wants to write eldar.
But yes, bl in general do need to write more from xenos and chaos perspectives. Adb for example needs to go finish that black legion trilogy. The idiom is variety is the spice of life.
Talon of horus was so good and I am excited to start Black legion
I learned to stop asking for Eldar stuff after Mr. Thorpe got a series. ABD _wants_ to write Eldar, but he won't because he needs to pay the bills (according to himself).
Space Marines 2 had better be polished on release, they should learn from Darktides mistakes.
And as for Cavill's series, if they've got any brains they should let him have at least some creative control so that it's not a clusterf....
Not even sure if it’s going to happen at this point
@@CMTechnica why not?
Amazon wanting to force DEI and lore breaking changes, lack of a workable script as of yet (allegedly), henry’s dedication to lore accuracy to name the few ive heard
@@colonelturmeric558 That literally came from a shitpost on 4chan that ended with "Trust me, my dad works for Nintendo."
They should make a sw battlefront style game and showcase every faction. Playing as space marines would be something people would have to earn to play as for a limited time and it would peak peoples interest in militarum and etc
I wouldnt mind some nice book series focusing on Harlequin Solitaires.
Done right this would be amazing! There is one in The Masque of Vyle and Andy Chambers' Path of the ... series.
That would be extremely hard to write and most likely gonna end with horrible book. Harlequins are basically meta aware. And it is very hard to play with cliches, when the actor knows and supports playing a cliche. I can however recommend reading "Practical guide to evil" series. Because it does just that. It is based on the world that is basically meta aware. And all the books are about the main heroine playing around and subverting these cliches when usefull and playing hard into them, to provide herself literal plot armour.
Fully agree Wes. As much as I Iove the Space Marines, I much more love the enormously wide 40k universe as a whole. There's a huge amount of untapped potential in the other factions. It's painful to see -for example- barely a handful of novels about Farsight and Shadowsun next to hundreds of marine novels, or such little exploration of the many subfactions next to marine chapters/legions, which themselves are just subfactions too. I really hope we get the good ending you describe!
I am new to the community and totally into the lore and the tabletop. But what actually bought me in was the conflicts and the interesting new concepts, weapons and tactics used by other species. I want to learn more about every corner of the universe equally and I really hope that more people like me will demand interesting and diverse content. The tabletop, the series, the books I read so far and the games would all be benefitting from giving us more backgrounds and perspective.
I don’t understand why people don’t think the first Cavill project isn’t obviously going to be Eisenhorn.
I heard Henry walked away because the show has become a woke joke
Mainly because nobody has tapped the author of the series to weigh in on it at all, I would think. But it does make sense to have an Inquisitor be the focal point character as he can then interact with every other faction and it not be lore-breaking. Another good choice would be a tech-priest or anyone from the Schola Progenum. Hell, we have 3 great named Commissar characters and they're a tiny fraction of the IG.
@@LastManStanding777it’s all bait, none of the articles or pictures spread online actually have a real source, and Cavill hasn’t said anything about it so (hopefully) it might actually be lore accurate
Also, I think it needs to be mentioned that the Space Marines are way cooler when seen by normal people. A Space Marine doesn't belive that the Empror is a god, understand they cannot physically understand fear and realises their role as the shield of humanity, a tool rather than a person. A normal person sees a Space Marine as the God Empror of Mankind's angels, dropping from the sky in shuttles of steel to fearlessly smite down the ennemies of humanity. The normal soldier sees him unleash the holy bolter's wrath to tear down foe's that their lasgun couldn't dream of taking down.
As a first person perspective, Space Marines are about "wow cool futuristic soldiers" (and often need to be nerfed for story's sake, or randomly jerked off way too much during high stakes scenes).As a third person perspective, Space Marines are religious icons who allow you to fully grasp the vibe of the imperium.
THIS! a 40k tv should build up to showing a space marine not start at that level
I was introduced to the warhammer 40k Universe by Bricky's warhammer timeline video, and immediately after that, I was excited to know about the "Age of Strife", "Dark Age of Technology", "The War in Heaves" etc.
I searched various places for books detailing these events, but was not able to find any. I am liking the Space Marines so far, but I can definitely see it getting stagnant in the coming years.
I think one of the best examples of the Space Marine problem is the Salamanders. By the standards of Space Marines, they are underdeveloped and lacking in lore, now if you compared to some Xenos factions... Well even not counting Horus Heresy, they still have more lore than entire factions. One, underdeveloped chapter, has more lore, than entire Xenos factions.
Tbh i would love for them to expand on the non-human parts of the universe (OUR UNIVERSE) that also have functional civilizations
Id truly like to see more of the Nekrons in general.
The Tyranids and what / where they came from.
Why not a nyds + techy skelly boys encounter? The only one i can remember is the Silent King shitting his pants when he saw the nyds for the first time & he came back running home.....
I want more stuff like that 😢
Warhammer fans might be fast, but sex bots are faster
Right?! They are on point!
I don't know man why do I find those in only warhammer channels 😂
Wait what? I’m so confused
@@mithunbalaji8199 warhammer fans must be the horniest of fandoms
Was that the "robot uprising" that the lore talked about!?😂
Dude, I think a huge percent of their sales that comes from people that don't even play the game. I buy and paint the models, get the codexes of the factions on painting and read the books. I haven't played the game in 20 years.
I collect and paint Orks, Chaos and Dark Angels.The only time I played in the last 20 years was when my girlfriend's teenage niece was staying with us and wanted to know what the cool-looking models were for. We played a version of 2nd edition based on my memories of how it went. The modern versions sound like over-complicated sales drivers to me.
@@filteredjc4653 If I ever played again it would definitely be using 2nd ed rules.
A good topic. I think the problem is, starting Space Marines (even ignoring models) has become easy mode: GW have shown us how to do a codex Chapter, how to break it, colour scheme guides, you name it. When it handed out it's IP to Relic Entertainment and Hatchette Partworks, we got the Blood Ravens and the Silver Templars. But we never see an attempt to create a new Ork Clan or Craftworld with the same ease. Primaris likely got more names/uniforms/snippets of lore for factions with the Ultima founding than Orks or the Eldar have in years. Churning out Chapters has become the norm...
I agree also i dont like how overpowered space marines are sometimes depickted when the destroy for example necrons or Eldar left right and center
I'm an Asuryani fan.
Our range is decades old, our storyline is constantly getting screwed over, and the only times that the Eldar look intimating and competent isn't even in our own stories where we come of as hyper-dramatic YA protagonists or just plain useless.
And it's almost, almost, always when Space Marines make an entrance, because they immediately go center stage after one-killing an Avatar of Khaine, again.
The fun part is, there's no way I can imagine a space marine taking on an Avatar of Khaine and winning... but heck - if it sells stories and gets money to GW... why shouldn't they be able to kill him :(
My local tabletop game convention has had a 40k tournament every year for 10 years. This year it's struggling to have one because so many players have dropped out. Our Extra Life chapter has had a for charity 40k tournament every year for 5 years but last time we couldn't generate enough interest for it to fire. People are switching to Mordheim, Necromunda, Age of Sigmar, Battletech, or playing older editions of 40k. Even if more people than ever are flocking to the universe, playing the game really seems to be dying off.
There’s also that other rumour running around of Creative Assembly’s Total War game set in Warhammer 40k. It’ll really suck if 80% of the playable factions are just different variations of Space Marines.
If they're smart they'll probably have a single Space Marine Faction, and the rest is just the rest of the Warhammer Factions,
lmao That rumor was debunked. Only a doofus would believe it in the first place.
@@murrayrothbardgaming7567 I could imagine that you will have the Space Marines as a "race" and then the Ultramarines, Salamanders etc as faction like they have in TWW3, were for example the High Elfs as a race are split into Eataine, Avelorn etc.
Ultrasmurfs and Black Templars. No more and no less (hopefully)
@@LifeofSquidMann Maybe they could make their own Space Marine Chapter like how the Dawn of war Games did
I'm thinking it's actually the right thing to do right now. Space marines are going to be the majority of people's introduction to the universe. You're right that there are likely to be a lot of newcomers coming soon. So for them, the table is set, they can jump in and there's all you can eat on space marines. However, as these newcomers start settling in, they'll start wanting to diversify. That's when you'll see more about the orks, eldar, necrons and chaos. That's when the releases will change up a bit.
You're not wrong here, you're just ahead of the curve and those of us already in this world will just need to be patient whilst everyone else catches up.
The interesting thing, I think is, is predicting what the zeitgeist will latch on to after the space marine introduction. I think someone like Fabius Bile or Trazyn the Infinite could be where we go afterwards. But they need to be established first (which they are now) before we go in deep with our new fans.
Im part of the problem. Ive been a fan of 40k since 2008 and I've only cared about the space marines this entire time
I feel like this is a pretty common thread in this community now. I agree on most fronts but disagree that it would impact much. 3D printing exists and there are tons of folks who are creating models while GW doubles down on what is easiest.
You’re not allowed to use models that are not released by GW in official games and tournaments.
@@1003JustinLaw Cool. Considering none of that is mandatory, I am sure we will survive.
@@1003JustinLawwe know, we just don’t play those games
@@1003JustinLawMost people aren't competitive players
@@BearPawSwipeexactly 😂GW will eventually stop having books written about anything other than Space Marines and won't update the lore for them either.
BUT HEY at least we can make our own unofficial models right?...
You sound disingenuous ASF...
I’d definitely make a major push for more sisters of silence/battle stuff, as I think they’re both incredibly underrated. Plus, after the whole female Custodies debacle, it makes me fear that space marines are gonna get the same treatment.
If/when that happens, the fallout is gonna make the Horus Heresy look like a slapfight.
@@LifeofSquidMann I'm sure Games Workshop will miss all of those people whose sole consumption of 40k is wikis and youtube videos about Space Marines who would be mad if there were women added to the Space Marines.
@@matthewgagnon9426 But hey, that'll mean more people taking up older editions or even other game systems so maybe it wouldn't be all bad.
Now that I think about it, I would love a mix/crossover/illegal parody of warhammer + borderlands, making a sort of grimdank.
A story centered around colonizing/recolonizing a world after 1000 or more years after a chaos or ork invasion, so mercenaries hunting squig fauna or raising remains of chaos cults, and if you want to add vaults you could have some necrons or Eldar remains.
Or an even dummer setting would be a world inhabited by humans that got separated from the imperium and the "vault hunters" in the end of the story when reaching the vault they send a signal attracting the sight of the big factions like the imperium, chaos, tyranids, orks whatever xd or even everyone at the same time.
PLEASE GOD JUST GIVE ME NEW ELDAR MODELS AND NOVELS
As long as they're not written by Gav Thorpe.
Lelith Hesperax will get a novel next month. Written by Mike Brooks. Lets hope for a banger ^^
Space marine 2 hype may backfire. There are already half confirmed rumors that the game will feature season pass and if there is something players hate more than unfinished "early access" games for full price it is season pass in team games.
Season Pass is just cosmetics and all content like missions , weapons ,story content and stuff is free. There really isn't anything to whine about. Other than the game is about Space Marines 😂
Season passes already confirmed to be just cosmetic I couldn’t care less if they want to do that it sure beats loot boxes that inherently make a difference in gameplay with better weapons stored inside. This game was delayed a year to be sure it comes out the most polished I have a lot of confidence in this game and the way it’s set up
SM1 did the same thing by locking specific game modes behind DLC as well as cosmetic. Nothing has changed.
It’s funny because up until today the only thing I knew about war hammer was the space marines and the diff legions and chapters. After watching your 1 hour long video on the timeline, I’ve come to realize how vast and expansive the series is. While the big 8 foot knights with giants tank destroying guns is cool af. The world building and different factions of warhammer is what really stand out to me personally after learning more lore.