You Rock Good sir! What a great channel you have here. I subscribed nearly three years ago when I got into reloading. Thank you for your content. Professional, no ego or flash. rare these days...
When I first started to watch this video, I expected the kind of accuracy result that I later saw was achieved. I have a quantity of WW wadcutters that was given to me twenty some odd years ago by a woman whose husband pulled a Hank Snow and left them behind. As factory wadcutters go, the Winchester Western brand is the hottest brand going far as know.. if I didn't have some factory +P jacketed hollow points and some handloaded lower-pressure ones, I would designate those WW factory wadcutters as summer-time defence loads. For winter I would prefer the semi-wadcutter handloads that I have in abundance. I like to use three grains of Bullseye in all of my handloads, no matter the bullet weight or type.. It makes for a cheap, safe, smokeless, and reliable load in my four-inch SW Model 15. Three grains of Bullseye is what the carefully leveled yellow Lee dipper that came with my Lee single stage press drops.
I had a S&W M57 41mag that shot just like your Python, always one flier. I marked my chamber and it was the cylinder and not me. Drove me crazy so I sold it. Got another one to take it's place and it drills.
I'm late to your channel, but catching up. You have a rock solid hold with that Python my friend. Great shooting and a great video! Thank you for your great content and tutorials.
I used a S&W K38 with 148 grain cast bullets and Federal Cases and Primers the Powder was 2.8 Grain of Winchester 231. It was certainly competitive in UIT Centre-fire and our Service Pistol match in Australia. Never shot from a rest but in competition you just can't afford have a gun which can't group about 2" at 50 mtrs. The groups were very similar what you shot here.
Oheeeoh - Thanks - I really do say that every time I shoot that gun. The Colt Python is regarded as the best revolver Colt ever produced. The actions are all tight, smooth and superb, and I have never heard of one that did not shoot accurately. I would never have purchased one back in the day except that I was competing in PPC at the time. You'd have to have a revolver custom worked by a gunsmith to equal it today - or buy a high end Smith and Wesson. Have a great day
My father bought a S&W model 28 Highway Patrolman .357 in 1963, brand new in the box for $65! I have inherited it and have since put over 11,000 very hot loads through it! It is extremely accurate and has not loosenedone bit since the dy dad purchased it! I have foond that wadcutters are only good for target shooting, as they were designed exclusively for that purpose, however, if you are shooting hollow case wadcutters, preferably plated and reverse the bullet, inverting the hollow base, and seating it out about a sixteenth of an inch from the end of the case and using a powder like Blue dot and boosting the velocity to around 1600 fps that they make devastating defense loads! My step dad and I developed these loads 30 years ago and went out to see what they would do. We used a 12"X12"creosote soaked gate post as a target and with only 2 shot were able to COMPLETELY sever the top 12"of the post! The expansion was simply amazing! These would be great loads for defense and when i carry the Smith, that's what I carry! Wadcutters are a waste for anything but target use and that's OK, but if you want to make them more versatile in .357 Magnum, try this loading and I think you'll find them much better than most factory hollow points in use today! I liked your video but didn't find it useful for me, personally as I don't compete in bullseye competition! Your recommendation of the LEE bullet mould is a good one for SWC bullets! Take care!
Kim Curtis - Appreciate your thoughtful comments - thank you for posting. I had a M28 Highway Patolman also - back in the Super Vel era - shot max hot lightweight JHP 357s out of that gun as fast as I could buy and reload the bullets. Yes, I have tried those reverse loaded HBWCs in that gun, and because the bullets are swaged lead and soft, those thing expand just looking at 'em. Driven to 950 fps, they will expand with gusto. At close range, those are incredibly expansive. However, if it ever came down to their use, the inevitable would be having to defend the use of "barbarian bullets" in a court of law not only in a criminal trial, but also the civil trial that would follow...Testimony would be given by forensic docs on the tissue destruction, etc. Best policy to use only factory ammo for any defensive application. Best to ya, FC
Very nice Python for sure! I re load 148HBWC on my Dillon 550 also, thats what I am set up for again. I use 2.8 Bullseye with the Speer 148 HBWC product number 4618. They are coated with a dry lube. Out of my GP100 4" I can get pretty good groups as long as I do my job everytime! LOL Its a nice plinking round, very soft shooting and really accurate to boot
ScubaOz - Een though the revolver has almost disappeared in Bullseye shooting, the sport of PPC still uses lots of the wadcutter ammo. But the 38 wadcutter is too useful to ever disappear and go away...Part of the reason the Pythons were so accurate was the bore tapered down towards the muzzle by a thousandths or two increasing accuracy. Have a great day, and thanks for posting... FC
Hi FC45LC: One fine video as always. I also like to test my reloads. Shooting off a HyScore rest which is just an inexpensive rest/clamp used for sighting in and adjusting aim point, I can sometimes obtain 3 to 5 MOA from my various reloads in 38/357 from my GP-100 6 inch barrel with a nice old Tasco scope from circa 1988 (much like your's), I do note that the results do vary between sessions with the same load parameters ( so many variables enter into the results!) I mostly shoot 10 shot strings at a NRA B2 or B3 target at 50 feet and use an app (application program for iPad) to calculate mean radius and location. I do note that on your video that there is a horizontal line on the wall to your right and correct me if I am wrong but I think I can see just a tad of a "wobble" between shots. A little bit of change in either the elevation or windage can make for a signicant in the results.To put it in perspective, if the front sight of a 6 inch handgun is raised just the width of a B2 paper cardboard target (say .010inch by my calipher), then the bore sight distance at 25 yards will be raised by 1.43 inches. All of which is to say that experienced steady offhand shooters like yourself are much to be respected. John (with an H)
If you are getting that bad, (3 to5 MOA) at 50 feet you'd better do some load recalculation! Man, that's bad! You SHOULD, when reloading be able to get MUCH BETTER accuracy than factory loads! Work up different loads and find the BEST load that your gun likes! It should be LESS than MOA at 50 feet! I'm an old man and none of my reloads shoot more that ONE MOA at 25 YARDS! Best wishes. Hope this helps!
Kim Curtis - The loads were/are fine - 2.8 grains of Promo and 148 grains HBWCs were shooting 3/4" from unsupported barrel rest at 25 yards (one dropped shot probably from thrown powder charges). That is 3 MOA or 1 1/2" groups at 50 yards...The factory Winchesters were shooting slightly better at 25 yards. Happy Holidays to ya, FC
Kim Curtis - Just happened to come back and saw your comment again... Congrats on your reloads shooting 1" at 25 yards. We are probably talking definitions and semantics here, but I always thought that one MOA is one minute of angle or 1" at 100 yards - translates to 1/4" at 25. Since that is not a practical figure with handguns, I am assuming you mean 1" at 25 yards which is still amazing accuracy for all your reloads. So again congratulations are in order... Have a great day, FC
I want to make wad cutters out of .357 Magnum brass instead of .38 special brass so you don't get that little dirty bit at the end of the chamber. I'm trying to figure out if that's possible.
FC buddy. I see Berry's has a selection of hollow base round nose plated bullets . Seems to me it answers the problem in particular with 9mm of the short bullets being less than accurate by allowing a longer bullet for the same weight. I also like the idea of the gasses expanding the base out to the rifling. I always liked plated bullets. The 124 grain would be my first choice over my favorite, Bullseye !
+jeffie8696 -- You have every reason to like plated bullets. The plated bullets were developed for the competition shooters who needed lots of clean, low smoke ammo faced with expensive jacketed bullet use. Ranier and Berry are the two leading producers of plated bullets. And some lines of factory ammo are loaded with plated. Shooters lament casting as time consuming and slow - but that's because they haven't fully realized the goodness of 6 cavity TL molds and today's use of 45/45/10 lubing and powder coating. My own cast bullets still beat out any purchased bullet for general shooting and economy. Have a great day, FC
+FortuneCookie45LC Do you think the plated hollow base bullets would be the ticket for polygonal rifling like Glock? I never fired any lead bullets in my Glock 19 , I only remember using 147 grain Silvertips with WSF powder which it liked. But I have heard concerns regarding polygonal rifling and lead bullets. I would like to see a side by side accuracy comparison of plated flat base and plated hollow base 124G 9mm bullets.
+jeffie8696 -- Reloads using weakened or old brass are hazardous for use in Glock factory barrels no matter what bullet is being used. I got around this issue by shooting only factory FMJ in my Glock 19 and 34 factory barrels and only shooting reloads in my after market barrels. Same with my Glock 21 and Glock 20. I don't shoot plated bullets very often, because plated bullets use cast bullet loading data - I'll just shoot cast bullets of my own. And now comes the era of powder coated bullets...I shoot them in my Glocks using the after market barrels...Other shooters have reported shooting lots of reloads in their factory Glock barrels without problems, but that is up to each shooter to decide... Good shootin' to ya, FC
@Fortunecookie45LC I was curious if one casting is longer than another would the longer casting help with obturation. I was thinking about this and if you use a longer cast projectile would you get a more complete burn. Since the projectile will take longer for the base of it to clear the cylinder face. I know that we are talking about One millionths of a second between 2 different length projectiles. But what I have come to find out in both casting,reloading and firearms in general is. Small changes can indeed make big results down range good and bad alike.
I used to think that I could shoot as good as a Ransom Rest until I bought one. I think that your groups are probably about what you would get if you disregard the flyers. I have several Pythons ( one exactly like yours ) and they all shoot my cast bullets under 1.5" at 50 yds.. Your are right though. Without a concrete bench to mount it to the Ransom rest would be useless.
deadeye2658 - Congrats on being a Ransom Rest owner. Perhaps that is the main reason I've never seen a Ransom Rest used at either of our local ranges...the benches are on the mediocre side. If I wrote for a firearms magazine, I'd have one. And if I had gotten into NRA Bullseye shooting, the Ransom would have been very handy for accuracy evaluation. Closest I got was PPC shooting. If our WC reloads shot along with Winchester Match, we were happy. Best to ya for a fine 2017..!! FC
I got about 1 1/2-2 inch groups from my blackhawk 357 with my lee 148 grain WC over bullseye but lemme tell you what the Lee 105 grain SWC over bullseye was every bit as good as those factory loads! It was the type of accuracy that you felt like you could knock out the center of a penny with your eye's closed. nice shooting and nice gun too!
At the gun range in the booths the discharging of the weapons echos off the steel walls on both sides of the shooter however if these steel walls were padded with cushion materials, the discharge sounds would be greatly reduced and save the hearing of those individuals standing to the rear without the ear muff protectors. Just my opinion.
Scott Free - we’ve all learned to wear ear plugs in addition to the muffs. And I supply all of that to new shooters I bring to the range. Ir’s good. Have a great 4th, FC Steve
I MAY have heard of "PROMO" powder, however, I've never used any of it. Me suspects you improve the group size on you reloads by experimenting with a few other appropriate powders. "2.2 grains" sounds quite low, even for target practice loads. Try Accurate #2 or possibly Hogdon INTERNATIONAL ect.
My gosh! Look at the size of that hammer spur! I didn't realize the Pythons were like that! Boy do I want one.... I just love that ribbed barrel and glossy deep royal bluing on these guns! Its either a Python or a Manurhin MR-73 and honestly i'd prefer the Manurhin.
Charles Frazier Oh, I don't disagree, they are stupid expensive. A Korth would be great too. I just want one really really nice revolver. The MR-73 would really scratch that itch. Very robust gun and a trigger that is almost unmatched.
mytmousemalibu - You've got good tastes, Chris. I only have that Python because of its use in PPC shooting - that gun has shot a lot of rounds, but you wouldn't know it to look at it. The holsters we used were PPC holsters - not very secure, but didn't wear the gun much. I should have bought more Pythons... Best to ya, FC Steve
Wow awesome results bro factory is way forward yes? Is the lack of accuracy.on hand loads due to the wearing out.over time of.that rigde thing you spoke of to stop the was cutter dropping down into the brass? Please forgive my ignorance I am from the UK we not allowed guns well we are but very restricted
l have never been able to match the accuracy of .38 factory WC's with reloads. But with factory loads now running over $30.00 my reloads shoot just fine.
stolleteddy - Factory wadcutters will group into 1 1/2" at 5 yards from an accurate revolver. Ransom rest would be the way to test. My own wadcutter loads shoot into 2 1/2" at 50 - that is plenty good for our PPC shooting as we shot courses that included the 35 yard prone. But when the state boys came in and took over our PPC matches, there was a 50 yard prone included. I used my reloads for practice basically. A compromise that I used was some commercially loaded wadcutter ammo that I purchased in 1000 round bulk pack cartons.. They shot like my best reloads. .Wound up with a barrel full of 38 empties shooting that stuff...all loaded with w-W brass that I still use in profuse quantities today... Best to ya, FC
Great video! I'm nowhere near that level of competition so for me a turret press and powder measurer is just fine. However I wonder if you batch loaded with new casing's, and weighed powder could you duplicate or surpass factory loads??
FC - Did you cast the wad cutters yourself & if so did you lube them? I just cast 148 gr. full wad cutters from Lee mold using pure indoor range lead & thinking of powder coating them. It's my 1st attempt at casting & looking for advice on how to lube these wad cutters or maybe I don't need to lube them??? Your thought please? I began casting after watching your vids & also Elvis Ammo vids, many thanks to both you guys! Where is Elvis? Hope he is OK & doing well & will return to making videos again soon.
bobblenuts - If you powder coat those wadcutters, the powder coat is the lube. You won't need to add anything additional unless you want to see if accuracy is improved. Never hurts to add lube, and we have options on that - tumble lube 'em or traditional lube with a lube-size machine. But again, powder coating is all you need to give you clean shooting. If you measure your cylinder throats, just size the powder coated bullets .001" bigger and you are in business. Good shootin' to ya, and please keep in touch as to your progress... Steve Elvis has stopped making videos until further notice. That good dude is much missed...
Your reloads appear to be very close to factory quality. With a little more attention to detail and fresh components your reloads will run with the factory ammo. The challenge is to find the sweet spot that works best in that one individual firearm. Reloading your own ammo saves money and can be very enjoyable. Nice shooting and what a beautiful Colt!
mike messier - Thanks, mike..!! You use few words to convey a lot of experience, knowledge and wisdom. Appreciate your posting... Continued good shootin' to ya, FC
Stefan Wolf - Always great hearing from you...If you have never tried wadcutters, I would recommend the Lee 357-158-SWC TL mold for your 357. It is a much more versatile bullet. Wadcutters are only for target shooting and perhaps small game hunting. The 158 SWC will let you do all the target stuff as well as go after medium game and even big game with you 357 ( big game as long as the perfect shot is presented). Best to ya
Great video as always, FC. I expected little or no leading at "target" wadcutter velocities, as indeed you got. I would like to cast bullets myself, but lead is hard to find here in Kali. Any ideas? Anyone out there have any ideas? Love the Python, but where are the factory grips? :) Good shooting to you
Troy Ortega - Thanks for posting. I have the original Python grip stocks. Any shooter interested in bullet casting should start collecting their base lead (I call that Stage 1 lead) You should inquire at the shooting range about their range scrap lead policies - Let them know you are a bullet caster. Do they have a time that you can pick up range scrap? Do they allow range scrap pick up during target changes? Please protect yourself from the dust if you do have to dig into berms. Picking up lead that is on top of the ground is easy and exposure to dust is not an issue. Do they allow shooters access to the range scrap that is picked up during range clean ups? A good source is to ask the knowledgeable rangemasters - the rangemaster at our range recently made a pickup of 700 pounds of lead in bricks...they know where the lead is. You might see if you can get into those deals they make. Another way would be to post a want ad on the range bulletin board - there are shooters out there with lead supplies they hoarded away and never got into casting. Free or low cost Stage 1 lead really makes bullet casting economical. Even if you have to buy your antimony and tin from RotoMetals, your cost per bullet will amaze you - I can load big bore ammo for less than $4 a box of 50. Good castin' to ya, FC
Hello FC45LC. I have just received an order from Matt's Bullets. Part of that order included 100 .452 dia. HBWC. I had intended to use them in my Blackhawk which is .45 Colt cal. But I thought I would ask you if you have ever tried them or might recommend a load for them. They are beautiful bullets as are the others in my order. All the best to you. Dave
You seemed to shoot several groups with a single dropped shot. To me this implies an issue with one of the chambers. Have you noticed anything funny or off or different about one of them? Anything peculiar about the cylinder at all? edit: Oh, I just realized this video is nearly six years old as of this writing. Maybe you're not on here anymore or you sold the gun years ago and don't remember. Well anyway, it's six years on and people are still watching this interesting video you created. Thanks very much.
Hardly a definitive test… you really need a machine rest to eliminate shooter error as a variable. That ‘stray’ shot however would make me think there could be an issue with a single specific chamber (poor alignment ?)… 🤔
Did you use a dillon die to seat the bullets? my setup has round or conical for the bullet seating. I have reloaded SWC loads on my 550B with dime size groups at 25yards.
I'm about to start loading WC on my 550. I see UniqueTek offers special powder drops and seating stems for this.. Do you know if these items have a noticeable advantage?
@@fenomeno71 I saw their site, the powder drops are for polymer coated bullets. I shot hard lead SWC, so no special seating stem was needed. I have seated the bullets base up, with the Dillon seating die, though I did not make a lot of them. Honestly I never considered whether the flat wadcutters needed a special seating stem.
With precision revolver being less popular as time goes on, who are some qualified gunsmiths in USA that can work on my revolvers to enhance their accuracy? In VA.
As long as your 30 38 wadcutter bullets, fired at ransom rest, at 25 meters, do not all fit in the center of the 10 of the precision issf target, you must review your reload
gerard sansano - This was a comparative video only and did not require a Ransom rest. But you are certainly right - trying to duplicate the Winchester factory match wadcutters (1 1/2" at 50 yards) would be a very admirable project. Best to ya, Steve
taylorman1949 - I find that the rest used really doesn't matter that much. My Calwell pistol rest has a yoke for the barrel so resting the gun there is fine. But the customary way of resting the wrist or edge of hand on the rest with gun not touching the rest works just as well (the thought of that is that the gun behaves same as offhand hold). But the differences are not significant at pistol ranges. The sharpness of the eyes matters much more especially since that degrades well before any trigger finger issues. The younger shooters see the world in sharp relief and have no reference point otherwise. But in time, they will know. Best to ya, FC Steve
Have you ever considered using a Ransom rest to eliminate what I am certain is the largest error in this test, human aiming? Purporting to test ammunition accuracy by shooting a pistol offhand is ludicrous.
Ed Knutson - Thanks for your comment, Ed. You sound like a fine shooter perhaps competition. I don't own a Ransom rest because the handgun benches at the range I shoot at are not worthy of one (see some of my videos). In 40 years of shooting on several ranges, I have never seen a Ransom Rest being used by anyone bar none. But that's not even all of it. - Look at all the work shooting off sandbags today - If sandbags were Ransom rests, then why is the sport of benchrest shooting so challenging? Sandbags do not test ammo accuracy either as if the group shot is unacceptable, how do we know how well that particular shooter can shoot off sandbags? It could be world record .007 MOA ammo shot by a lark. And when Ransom rests are used, how do we know the RR was set up properly with the proper inserts on a rock steady bench, etc if the group is "big"? If we really want data, we need multiple 10 round groups and Sierra Bullets shoots from immovable test barrels on their 300 meter underground 0 alibi range. To statistically establish ammo accuracy, we would burn out barrels doing so. How did shooters of yesteryear, before there were benches, rests and sandbags establish ammo accuracy? They knew when the ammo was accurate because when they touched off a round and called their shot, the bullets hit right where they were supposed to. And then they repeated that several times...the bullets kept hitting where they were called (or near enough to fall into the accuracy criteria)...the shooter knew the ammo was "accurate". And this can be established shooting offhand if the shooter is able to "touch off" and call the shots offhand. Now if a shooter cannot "touch off" off hand, then the nearest fallen tree trunk or rock with saddlebags thrown over it will suffice. When I show a group I shoot offhand and say the ammo is accurate, it is because the ammo is more accurate (not less accurate) than I can shoot. And if a better shooter is behind the wheel, then the groups will be smaller. If worse, then larger. But we can all determine the accuracy of the ammo... Best Regards to ya, and Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays..!! FC
My python likes the case mouth crimped over the bullet. My S&W 52-2 likes the bullet outside the case, just above the lip and then a taper crimp. The Python has always been more accurate than the 52-2....but never by much.
AbitNutz - Earlier Pythons had a very slight forcing cone to barrel crown with a slight taper down for maximum accuracy...That was unique to factory guns...Best to ya, FC
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You Rock Good sir! What a great channel you have here. I subscribed nearly three years ago when I got into reloading. Thank you for your content. Professional, no ego or flash. rare these days...
Thanks for all the time and effort you put into your videos. They're always fun to watch, and very informative.
When I first started to watch this video, I expected the kind of accuracy result that I later saw was achieved. I have a quantity of WW wadcutters that was given to me twenty some odd years ago by a woman whose husband pulled a Hank Snow and left them behind. As factory wadcutters go, the Winchester Western brand is the hottest brand going far as know.. if I didn't have some factory +P jacketed hollow points and some handloaded lower-pressure ones, I would designate those WW factory wadcutters as summer-time defence loads. For winter I would prefer the semi-wadcutter handloads that I have in abundance. I like to use three grains of Bullseye in all of my handloads, no matter the bullet weight or type.. It makes for a cheap, safe, smokeless, and reliable load in my four-inch SW Model 15. Three grains of Bullseye is what the carefully leveled yellow Lee dipper that came with my Lee single stage press drops.
I had a S&W M57 41mag that shot just like your Python, always one flier. I marked my chamber and it was the cylinder and not me. Drove me crazy so I sold it. Got another one to take it's place and it drills.
That one cylinder probably was slightly larger in the throat and allowed the bullet to tip sideways when entering the forcing cone.
I'm late to your channel, but catching up. You have a rock solid hold with that Python my friend. Great shooting and a great video! Thank you for your great content and tutorials.
Cookie - I wonder how many competitors do use factory ammo in competition. I enjoyed the video - good subject matter. Thanks for posting.
That's a gorgeous Colt Python.
It's nice seeing an honest comparison, even though your reloads were perfectly acceptable.
I used a S&W K38 with 148 grain cast bullets and Federal Cases and Primers the Powder was 2.8 Grain of Winchester 231. It was certainly competitive in UIT Centre-fire and our Service Pistol match in Australia. Never shot from a rest but in competition you just can't afford have a gun which can't group about 2" at 50 mtrs. The groups were very similar what you shot here.
Man you can tell how smooth that pistol is just from the sound of the hammer cocking. Cheers!
Oheeeoh - Thanks - I really do say that every time I shoot that gun. The Colt Python is regarded as the best revolver Colt ever produced. The actions are all tight, smooth and superb, and I have never heard of one that did not shoot accurately. I would never have purchased one back in the day except that I was competing in PPC at the time. You'd have to have a revolver custom worked by a gunsmith to equal it today - or buy a high end Smith and Wesson. Have a great day
My father bought a S&W model 28 Highway Patrolman .357 in 1963, brand new in the box for $65! I have inherited it and have since put over 11,000 very hot loads through it! It is extremely accurate and has not loosenedone bit since the dy dad purchased it! I have foond that wadcutters are only good for target shooting, as they were designed exclusively for that purpose, however, if you are shooting hollow case wadcutters, preferably plated and reverse the bullet, inverting the hollow base, and seating it out about a sixteenth of an inch from the end of the case and using a powder like Blue dot and boosting the velocity to around 1600 fps that they make devastating defense loads! My step dad and I developed these loads 30 years ago and went out to see what they would do. We used a 12"X12"creosote soaked gate post as a target and with only 2 shot were able to COMPLETELY sever the top 12"of the post! The expansion was simply amazing! These would be great loads for defense and when i carry the Smith, that's what I carry!
Wadcutters are a waste for anything but target use and that's OK, but if you want to make them more versatile in .357 Magnum, try this loading and I think you'll find them much better than most factory hollow points in use today!
I liked your video but didn't find it useful for me, personally as I don't compete in bullseye competition! Your recommendation of the LEE bullet mould is a good one for SWC bullets! Take care!
Kim Curtis - Appreciate your thoughtful comments - thank you for posting. I had a M28 Highway Patolman also - back in the Super Vel era - shot max hot lightweight JHP 357s out of that gun as fast as I could buy and reload the bullets. Yes, I have tried those reverse loaded HBWCs in that gun, and because the bullets are swaged lead and soft, those thing expand just looking at 'em. Driven to 950 fps, they will expand with gusto. At close range, those are incredibly expansive. However, if it ever came down to their use, the inevitable would be having to defend the use of "barbarian bullets" in a court of law not only in a criminal trial, but also the civil trial that would follow...Testimony would be given by forensic docs on the tissue destruction, etc. Best policy to use only factory ammo for any defensive application. Best to ya, FC
Thank you for the video. It was great! I find that 2.7 grains of Bullseye behind a hollow base wadcutter does wonders.
.38 was cutters fit very nicely in the 9mm mtm cases
Nice cleaning tip FC.Thats whare i get most of my leading is in the forcing cone of my GP-100.Thanks for the video!
What a wonderful Colt you have!
Perico De Lospalotes - Thanks, they are of a long gone breed...Best Regards to ya, FC
Very nice Python for sure! I re load 148HBWC on my Dillon 550 also, thats what I am set up for again. I use 2.8 Bullseye with the Speer 148 HBWC product number 4618. They are coated with a dry lube. Out of my GP100 4" I can get pretty good groups as long as I do my job everytime! LOL Its a nice plinking round, very soft shooting and really accurate to boot
ScubaOz - Een though the revolver has almost disappeared in Bullseye shooting, the sport of PPC still uses lots of the wadcutter ammo. But the 38 wadcutter is too useful to ever disappear and go away...Part of the reason the Pythons were so accurate was the bore tapered down towards the muzzle by a thousandths or two increasing accuracy. Have a great day, and thanks for posting... FC
Hi FC45LC: One fine video as always. I also like to test my reloads. Shooting off a HyScore rest which is just an inexpensive rest/clamp used for sighting in and adjusting aim point, I can sometimes obtain 3 to 5 MOA from my various reloads in 38/357 from my GP-100 6 inch barrel with a nice old Tasco scope from circa 1988 (much like your's), I do note that the results do vary between sessions with the same load parameters ( so many variables enter into the results!) I mostly shoot 10 shot strings at a NRA B2 or B3 target at 50 feet and use an app (application program for iPad) to calculate mean radius and location. I do note that on your video that there is a horizontal line on the wall to your right and correct me if I am wrong but I think I can see just a tad of a "wobble" between shots. A little bit of change in either the elevation or windage can make for a signicant in the results.To put it in perspective, if the front sight of a
6 inch handgun is raised just the width of a B2 paper cardboard target (say .010inch by my calipher), then the bore sight distance at 25 yards will be raised by 1.43 inches. All of which is to say that experienced steady offhand shooters like yourself are much to be respected.
John (with an H)
If you are getting that bad, (3 to5 MOA) at 50 feet you'd better do some load recalculation! Man, that's bad! You SHOULD, when reloading be able to get MUCH BETTER accuracy than factory loads! Work up different loads and find the BEST load that your gun likes! It should be LESS than MOA at 50 feet! I'm an old man and none of my reloads shoot more that ONE MOA at 25 YARDS! Best wishes. Hope this helps!
Kim Curtis - The loads were/are fine - 2.8 grains of Promo and 148 grains HBWCs were shooting 3/4" from unsupported barrel rest at 25 yards (one dropped shot probably from thrown powder charges). That is 3 MOA or 1 1/2" groups at 50 yards...The factory Winchesters were shooting slightly better at 25 yards. Happy Holidays to ya, FC
Kim Curtis - Just happened to come back and saw your comment again... Congrats on your reloads shooting 1" at 25 yards. We are probably talking definitions and semantics here, but I always thought that one MOA is one minute of angle or 1" at 100 yards - translates to 1/4" at 25. Since that is not a practical figure with handguns, I am assuming you mean 1" at 25 yards which is still amazing accuracy for all your reloads. So again congratulations are in order... Have a great day, FC
I want to make wad cutters out of .357 Magnum brass instead of .38 special brass so you don't get that little dirty bit at the end of the chamber. I'm trying to figure out if that's possible.
Nice shooting.
Always a pleasure FC :-)
FC buddy. I see Berry's has a selection of hollow base round nose plated bullets . Seems to me it answers the problem in particular with 9mm of the short bullets being less than accurate by allowing a longer bullet for the same weight. I also like the idea of the gasses expanding the base out to the rifling. I always liked plated bullets. The 124 grain would be my first choice over my favorite, Bullseye !
+jeffie8696 -- You have every reason to like plated bullets. The plated bullets were developed for the competition shooters who needed lots of clean, low smoke ammo faced with expensive jacketed bullet use. Ranier and Berry are the two leading producers of plated bullets. And some lines of factory ammo are loaded with plated. Shooters lament casting as time consuming and slow - but that's because they haven't fully realized the goodness of 6 cavity TL molds and today's use of 45/45/10 lubing and powder coating. My own cast bullets still beat out any purchased bullet for general shooting and economy. Have a great day, FC
+FortuneCookie45LC Do you think the plated hollow base bullets would be the ticket for polygonal rifling like Glock? I never fired any lead bullets in my Glock 19 , I only remember using 147 grain Silvertips with WSF powder which it liked. But I have heard concerns regarding polygonal rifling and lead bullets. I would like to see a side by side accuracy comparison of plated flat base and plated hollow base 124G 9mm bullets.
+jeffie8696 -- Reloads using weakened or old brass are hazardous for use in Glock factory barrels no matter what bullet is being used. I got around this issue by shooting only factory FMJ in my Glock 19 and 34 factory barrels and only shooting reloads in my after market barrels. Same with my Glock 21 and Glock 20. I don't shoot plated bullets very often, because plated bullets use cast bullet loading data - I'll just shoot cast bullets of my own. And now comes the era of powder coated bullets...I shoot them in my Glocks using the after market barrels...Other shooters have reported shooting lots of reloads in their factory Glock barrels without problems, but that is up to each shooter to decide... Good shootin' to ya, FC
@Fortunecookie45LC I was curious if one casting is longer than another would the longer casting help with obturation. I was thinking about this and if you use a longer cast projectile would you get a more complete burn. Since the projectile will take longer for the base of it to clear the cylinder face. I know that we are talking about One millionths of a second between 2 different length projectiles. But what I have come to find out in both casting,reloading and firearms in general is. Small changes can indeed make big results down range good and bad alike.
What if you were weighing your charges on a single stage press? Would you at least match or possibly beat factory loads then?
I used to think that I could shoot as good as a Ransom Rest until I bought one. I think that your groups are probably about what you would get if you disregard the flyers. I have several Pythons ( one exactly like yours ) and they all shoot my cast bullets under 1.5" at 50 yds.. Your are right though. Without a concrete bench to mount it to the Ransom rest would be useless.
deadeye2658 - Congrats on being a Ransom Rest owner. Perhaps that is the main reason I've never seen a Ransom Rest used at either of our local ranges...the benches are on the mediocre side. If I wrote for a firearms magazine, I'd have one. And if I had gotten into NRA Bullseye shooting, the Ransom would have been very handy for accuracy evaluation. Closest I got was PPC shooting. If our WC reloads shot along with Winchester Match, we were happy. Best to ya for a fine 2017..!! FC
I got about 1 1/2-2 inch groups from my blackhawk 357 with my lee 148 grain WC over bullseye but lemme tell you what the Lee 105 grain SWC over bullseye was every bit as good as those factory loads! It was the type of accuracy that you felt like you could knock out the center of a penny with your eye's closed. nice shooting and nice gun too!
Where might I find more info on the Lee 105 SWC you mention here? Thanks
That is a very accurate gun and loads. How did you shoot those many rounds with so little leading ?
Happiness is a handful of Colt!
Bought my wife a 1965' Python (original police carry) for xmas....
Do you have a favorite load with trail boss. And 148 grain economy. Thank you fc
the real question is how do you disassemble a round like that?
I've taken some of my wad-cutters apart with a regular kinetic energy hammer and even pushed out the live primer
Nice shooting
At the gun range in the booths the discharging of the weapons echos off the steel walls on both sides of the shooter however if these steel walls were padded with cushion materials, the discharge sounds would be greatly reduced and save the hearing of those individuals standing to the rear without the ear muff protectors. Just my opinion.
Scott Free - we’ve all learned to wear ear plugs in addition to the muffs. And I supply all of that to new shooters I bring to the range. Ir’s good. Have a great 4th, FC Steve
I MAY have heard of "PROMO" powder, however, I've never used any of it.
Me suspects you improve the group size on you reloads by experimenting with a few other appropriate powders.
"2.2 grains" sounds quite low, even for target practice loads.
Try Accurate #2 or possibly Hogdon INTERNATIONAL ect.
My gosh! Look at the size of that hammer spur! I didn't realize the Pythons were like that! Boy do I want one.... I just love that ribbed barrel and glossy deep royal bluing on these guns! Its either a Python or a Manurhin MR-73 and honestly i'd prefer the Manurhin.
I would too, but I could buy 2 or more S&W's for the same money.
Charles Frazier Oh, I don't disagree, they are stupid expensive. A Korth would be great too. I just want one really really nice revolver. The MR-73 would really scratch that itch. Very robust gun and a trigger that is almost unmatched.
mytmousemalibu - You've got good tastes, Chris. I only have that Python because of its use in PPC shooting - that gun has shot a lot of rounds, but you wouldn't know it to look at it. The holsters we used were PPC holsters - not very secure, but didn't wear the gun much. I should have bought more Pythons... Best to ya, FC Steve
Wow awesome results bro factory is way forward yes? Is the lack of accuracy.on hand loads due to the wearing out.over time of.that rigde thing you spoke of to stop the was cutter dropping down into the brass? Please forgive my ignorance I am from the UK we not allowed guns well we are but very restricted
l have never been able to match the accuracy of .38 factory WC's with reloads. But with factory loads now running over $30.00 my reloads shoot just fine.
stolleteddy - Factory wadcutters will group into 1 1/2" at 5 yards from an accurate revolver. Ransom rest would be the way to test. My own wadcutter loads shoot into 2 1/2" at 50 - that is plenty good for our PPC shooting as we shot courses that included the 35 yard prone. But when the state boys came in and took over our PPC matches, there was a 50 yard prone included. I used my reloads for practice basically. A compromise that I used was some commercially loaded wadcutter ammo that I purchased in 1000 round bulk pack cartons.. They shot like my best reloads. .Wound up with a barrel full of 38 empties shooting that stuff...all loaded with w-W brass that I still use in profuse quantities today... Best to ya, FC
Great video! I'm nowhere near that level of competition so for me a turret press and powder measurer is just fine. However I wonder if you batch loaded with new casing's, and weighed powder could you duplicate or surpass factory loads??
FC - Did you cast the wad cutters yourself & if so did you lube them? I just cast 148 gr. full wad cutters from Lee mold using pure indoor range lead & thinking of powder coating them. It's my 1st attempt at casting & looking for advice on how to lube these wad cutters or maybe I don't need to lube them??? Your thought please? I began casting after watching your vids & also Elvis Ammo vids, many thanks to both you guys! Where is Elvis? Hope he is OK & doing well & will return to making videos again soon.
bobblenuts - If you powder coat those wadcutters, the powder coat is the lube. You won't need to add anything additional unless you want to see if accuracy is improved. Never hurts to add lube, and we have options on that - tumble lube 'em or traditional lube with a lube-size machine. But again, powder coating is all you need to give you clean shooting. If you measure your cylinder throats, just size the powder coated bullets .001" bigger and you are in business. Good shootin' to ya, and please keep in touch as to your progress... Steve Elvis has stopped making videos until further notice. That good dude is much missed...
That is because the factory loads are likely using a bit higher charge of a bit slower powder.
Your reloads appear to be very close to factory quality. With a little more attention to detail and fresh components your reloads will run with the factory ammo. The challenge is to find the sweet spot that works best in that one individual firearm. Reloading your own ammo saves money and can be very enjoyable. Nice shooting and what a beautiful Colt!
mike messier - Thanks, mike..!! You use few words to convey a lot of experience, knowledge and wisdom. Appreciate your posting... Continued good shootin' to ya, FC
I have never tried wadcutters - can you recommend a good .357 Mag lead bullet mold...
Stefan Wolf - Always great hearing from you...If you have never tried wadcutters, I would recommend the Lee 357-158-SWC TL mold for your 357. It is a much more versatile bullet. Wadcutters are only for target shooting and perhaps small game hunting. The 158 SWC will let you do all the target stuff as well as go after medium game and even big game with you 357 ( big game as long as the perfect shot is presented). Best to ya
Great video as always, FC. I expected little or no leading at "target" wadcutter velocities, as indeed you got. I would like to cast bullets myself, but lead is hard to find here in Kali. Any ideas? Anyone out there have any ideas? Love the Python, but where are the factory grips? :) Good shooting to you
Troy Ortega - Thanks for posting. I have the original Python grip stocks. Any shooter interested in bullet casting should start collecting their base lead (I call that Stage 1 lead) You should inquire at the shooting range about their range scrap lead policies - Let them know you are a bullet caster. Do they have a time that you can pick up range scrap? Do they allow range scrap pick up during target changes? Please protect yourself from the dust if you do have to dig into berms. Picking up lead that is on top of the ground is easy and exposure to dust is not an issue.
Do they allow shooters access to the range scrap that is picked up during range clean ups? A good source is to ask the knowledgeable rangemasters - the rangemaster at our range recently made a pickup of 700 pounds of lead in bricks...they know where the lead is. You might see if you can get into those deals they make. Another way would be to post a want ad on the range bulletin board - there are shooters out there with lead supplies they hoarded away and never got into casting. Free or low cost Stage 1 lead really makes bullet casting economical. Even if you have to buy your antimony and tin from RotoMetals, your cost per bullet will amaze you - I can load big bore ammo for less than $4 a box of 50. Good castin' to ya, FC
Hello FC45LC. I have just received an order from Matt's Bullets. Part of that order included 100 .452 dia. HBWC. I had intended to use them in my Blackhawk which is .45 Colt cal. But I thought I would ask you if you have ever tried them or might recommend a load for them. They are beautiful bullets as are the others in my order. All the best to you. Dave
You seemed to shoot several groups with a single dropped shot. To me this implies an issue with one of the chambers. Have you noticed anything funny or off or different about one of them? Anything peculiar about the cylinder at all?
edit: Oh, I just realized this video is nearly six years old as of this writing. Maybe you're not on here anymore or you sold the gun years ago and don't remember. Well anyway, it's six years on and people are still watching this interesting video you created. Thanks very much.
Is accuracy effected when loading with a progressive press over a single stage press?
Good video Mr.Cookie
I load all my ammo like it's a rifle cartridge takes a bit longer but the end results are worth it
Gotta said I love that python I’ve always wanted one you’re very lucky man fortune cookie 45 LC
Willie Bulletman
"...very lucky..."
"Those who fail to plan,
plan to fail."
Buy one / move to where you are FREE to do so ...
Hardly a definitive test… you really need a machine rest to eliminate shooter error as a variable. That ‘stray’ shot however would make me think there could be an issue with a single specific chamber (poor alignment ?)… 🤔
Did you use a dillon die to seat the bullets? my setup has round or conical for the bullet seating. I have reloaded SWC loads on my 550B with dime size groups at 25yards.
I'm about to start loading WC on my 550. I see UniqueTek offers special powder drops and seating stems for this.. Do you know if these items have a noticeable advantage?
@@fenomeno71 I saw their site, the powder drops are for polymer coated bullets. I shot hard lead SWC, so no special seating stem was needed. I have seated the bullets base up, with the Dillon seating die, though I did not make a lot of them. Honestly I never considered whether the flat wadcutters needed a special seating stem.
With precision revolver being less popular as time goes on, who are some qualified gunsmiths in USA that can work on my revolvers to enhance their accuracy? In VA.
As long as your 30 38 wadcutter bullets, fired at ransom rest, at 25 meters, do not all fit in the center of the 10 of the precision issf target, you must review your reload
gerard sansano - This was a comparative video only and did not require a Ransom rest. But you are certainly right - trying to duplicate the Winchester factory match wadcutters (1 1/2" at 50 yards) would be a very admirable project. Best to ya, Steve
Do you find it more accurate to rest the barrel only on a sandbag, or to rest your grip or even just your wrist?
taylorman1949 - I find that the rest used really doesn't matter that much. My Calwell pistol rest has a yoke for the barrel so resting the gun there is fine. But the customary way of resting the wrist or edge of hand on the rest with gun not touching the rest works just as well (the thought of that is that the gun behaves same as offhand hold). But the differences are not significant at pistol ranges. The sharpness of the eyes matters much more especially since that degrades well before any trigger finger issues. The younger shooters see the world in sharp relief and have no reference point otherwise. But in time, they will know. Best to ya, FC Steve
Have you ever considered using a Ransom rest to eliminate what I am certain is the largest error in this test, human aiming?
Purporting to test ammunition accuracy by shooting a pistol offhand is ludicrous.
Ed Knutson - Thanks for your comment, Ed. You sound like a fine shooter perhaps competition. I don't own a Ransom rest because the handgun benches at the range I shoot at are not worthy of one (see some of my videos). In 40 years of shooting on several ranges, I have never seen a Ransom Rest being used by anyone bar none. But that's not even all of it. - Look at all the work shooting off sandbags today - If sandbags were Ransom rests, then why is the sport of benchrest shooting so challenging? Sandbags do not test ammo accuracy either as if the group shot is unacceptable, how do we know how well that particular shooter can shoot off sandbags? It could be world record .007 MOA ammo shot by a lark. And when Ransom rests are used, how do we know the RR was set up properly with the proper inserts on a rock steady bench, etc if the group is "big"? If we really want data, we need multiple 10 round groups and Sierra Bullets shoots from immovable test barrels on their 300 meter underground 0 alibi range. To statistically establish ammo accuracy, we would burn out barrels doing so. How did shooters of yesteryear, before there were benches, rests and sandbags establish ammo accuracy? They knew when the ammo was accurate because when they touched off a round and called their shot, the bullets hit right where they were supposed to. And then they repeated that several times...the bullets kept hitting where they were called (or near enough to fall into the accuracy criteria)...the shooter knew the ammo was "accurate". And this can be established shooting offhand if the shooter is able to "touch off" and call the shots offhand. Now if a shooter cannot "touch off" off hand, then the nearest fallen tree trunk or rock with saddlebags thrown over it will suffice. When I show a group I shoot offhand and say the ammo is accurate, it is because the ammo is more accurate (not less accurate) than I can shoot. And if a better shooter is behind the wheel, then the groups will be smaller. If worse, then larger. But we can all determine the accuracy of the ammo... Best Regards to ya, and Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays..!! FC
My python likes the case mouth crimped over the bullet. My S&W 52-2 likes the bullet outside the case, just above the lip and then a taper crimp. The Python has always been more accurate than the 52-2....but never by much.
AbitNutz - Earlier Pythons had a very slight forcing cone to barrel crown with a slight taper down for maximum accuracy...That was unique to factory guns...Best to ya, FC
When will you be putting videos on Rumble?
Colt Python... Drool drool drool
:-)