Always love to see these! Deathwalker was my wifes first class and she played wholly ranged taking the shadow mobility options level two and three. That let the class have the option to focus down back line targets and had the dual benefit of easing pressure on the boneshaper bannerspear frontline pair while also placing backline shadows for better targeting and teleport options. One funny thing she started doing was whenever we saw a lettered token on the map she would leave a shadow there so when there was a 'surprise' spawn it would get immediately ambushed from a room away, hilarious.
Okay, here's how I solved some of the struggles you presented with this class: First of all, using the dark element is essential in order to not have those “famine” turns. In that way you can keep the train running and be useful even without shadows. That makes Call of doom bottom a great first turn action paired with Call to the Abyss top. On second turn, use Forceful spirits or Black barrage (or level 3 Dead bolt) to tag an enemy and get an xp in the process. Usually by then your allies have softened the enemies to a killing range for you to get your first shadow. I think you have misread the Call of doom top action; It doesn’t require you to be in melee with anyone, only your shadow needs to be next to them. Shadow step is actually a very powerful card when paired with Restless spirits from level 2. You can move 6, attack 6 with curse on one turn and get another xp in the process. That reaches the annoying back row archer or imp that has been crippling your team from afar. In general, I recommend utilizing the teleport abilities more when you need to move long distances. You can easily position your shadows within 3-5 hexes and teleport into (or adjacent to) them on the next turn, and you would be in a position for a possible melee attack as well. Hope this helps!
Great advice all around - for the teleports, I found I was frustrated by not having shadows where I wanted them to be - were you often using things that generated a single shadow within 2/3 to use them to slingshot yourself forward? Or did you more use it to go fight enemies in side rooms and corners and then teleport back to previous death sites?
Mostly shadows generated from previous deaths. Deathwalker has a great range so you could sniper some enemies in the back and teleport there on a same turn
The first mastery is a little sneaky, you remove a shadow if you would place a 6th. So placing one + using all 5 to kill something + negating damage to teleport can get you it with only level 1 cards. DW was my starting class, and I retired shortly after hitting level 5. I was also paired with bannerspear in 4 player and I was often the one enabling the formation attacks because I didn't care too much about where my actual character was standing on any given turn. I barely moved shadows with cards, in fact I found myself not caring about my bottom action quite often and used the default move 2 to shuffle around way more than on any other class. Shadows that were falling behind would get eaten by anger of the dead or used for the summon. I brought Call of Doom to every scenario solely for the bottom until I replaced it with Pulled Across. I also brought Shadow Step a lot of the time, like you mentioned the top is pretty awkward to use so I used it pretty often as a move 2 with decent initiative until I needed a big move + mini eclipse. The extra move cards plus not spending too many actions on moving shadows meant I didn't have too much trouble with my own mobility.
Oh, thanks for the clarification on accessing that mastery! Good call. So if you just left the shadows behind, were you generally weak going into a new room until you created a shadow or two?
@@phoenicksgaming You're definitely a weaker than having five shadows down right there but as long as you're tagging things before they die I didn't have much downtime, in 4p at least. Starting a room with a ranged attack and sniping an imp is totally fine, or chipping away at a big monster that will hopefully die before you go next turn. By the second room I was usually willing to break eclipse if the scenario called for it, with shadow step as well you can get a lot of shadows down right where you need them. I would also just not take the cards that need a lot of shadows around if it looked like a scenario with heavy movement.
Such a helpful video! The Deathwalker in my party is so hot & cold, will take turns at critical times that consist of "well, im going to make a shadow. And move this shadow. Done!" Its helpful to hear that you had a similar experience! I can at least give my friend the benefit of the doubt, maybe its the character and not him! 😂😂
I'd say for the situation you brought up about the room deleting itself: At the end of the day, this is a game and if something silly like that with no rulings for or against your tokens, i would have simply just placed the shadows somewhere in the new room. In a group setting, i would have easily allowed something like that because it just isn't fun for the game to shaft you like that, especially without any sort of ruling.
I played this to level 9 - also played the "ranged build", and I agree with a lot of what you say. But I loved this class. Takes a few levels to ramp, but the dmg output is massive! Until about level 4 (Fleeting Dusk), my common opener was Eclipse top and Call to Abyss bottom - yep, I didn't set up call till the second cycle. I wanted turns to get my shadows positioned and start the damage output. I found that setting up Call either gave me shadow anxiety and slow dmg rotations, or gave me stamina troubles if I used Eclipse along with it. I fully agree with the movement issues. Unless the scenario called for it, I was often only moving a handful of times per scenario - basically only ever Shadow Step or Sunless Apparition, or basic move. There were times I'd teleport and almost skip a whole room! The bottom action economy is extremely strained on this character with the shadow movements required. I was also by far the worst looter in our group. I enhanced Fluid Night +1 and kept it with me the whole time - FN and Dominate were absolute workhorses. A head item that gives advantage is crucial.
Just want to say that your guides are really good. One of my teammates played with Deathwalker and did some nice damage. I'm moving on to Meteor soon, so it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on that one, when you get to it.
I haven't played the class myself but I am kinda surprised about trouble with movement. While moving around shadows does tend to use your bottom action, the class does have a couple of teleport to or next to a shadow which should allow you to catch up. For shadow step you do need to remember that most effects that burn shadows tend to give xp, so the free shadow can be considered delayed xp. I am kinda surprised you took ritual sacrifice at level 3. I'd expect that death bolt bottom would make a perfect combo with deepening dispair top. I think you're kinda underestimating the bottom of the night takes shape. First note the flexibility of the card. If you're already in position to attack you could just move a shadow and do the attack 3. Teleporting to a shadow after moving the shadow 3 spaces can be a huge move. Doing a move+ attack 3 with a bottom action is great value for almost any class. Also the Deathwalker cares about making kills and marking enemies. This card allows you to do a top and a bottom attack. So you could use your top attack to kill an enemy, move the shadow and attack and mark another enemy.
You've convinced me! I hadn't really considered the already being in position situation, you're right, and that does indeed generate a good amount of value. Thanks for the comment!
At lvl 1: Call to the abyss + infuse dark in turn 1, then range attack with consume dark in turn 2, and mark an enemy that normally should die before your next turn, then you can start using that shadow the next turn, marking an enemy again. Normally you should have a shadow when you need it. But usually in my dw build, I don't have many shadows out at the same time, because I use them, so I usually don't bring strength of the abyss.
I played this through level 9 and I was the ranged heavy hitter of our 3-player team.Always doing 4-7 damage attacks every round, attacking twice if you counted bottom shadow-based damage. Optimized myself for cursing and I dropped 4-6 curses per rest cycle. I always played to create and use shadows fast to attack big. Start with making dark to charge attacks, to kill and make shadows, then alternate making dark and making shadows. The only problems I had were scenarios with few enemies, then harder to make shadows.
I loved this class, and i went in expecting it to be a less than good experience. Definitely has some low impact turns, but I've really carried my group with this little dude
I believe there's errata on your early example about Deathwalker losing all their shadows in that one scenario...the errata points out that all character tokens get to move into the room too.
All these hour long guides and no ones gives a good example of the first two or three turns. I play this class and find it way to slow in a 4 player game. By the time you have enough shadows to do anything the room will be cleared and most of the shadows will be left behind. Gaining XP is also hard and very dark and shadow dependant. Looking forward to retiring this class.
Someone else mentioned this - that's fair enough but I don't love when a game requires you to look at the FAQ to solve something that is somewhat counter to the way they've been presented in the rules.
Always love to see these! Deathwalker was my wifes first class and she played wholly ranged taking the shadow mobility options level two and three. That let the class have the option to focus down back line targets and had the dual benefit of easing pressure on the boneshaper bannerspear frontline pair while also placing backline shadows for better targeting and teleport options.
One funny thing she started doing was whenever we saw a lettered token on the map she would leave a shadow there so when there was a 'surprise' spawn it would get immediately ambushed from a room away, hilarious.
I really like your wife's plan of preloading shadows for attacks - that's a wonderful way to use the games information to get an edge!
Haha! what timing! Ive just got DW and was waiting for your guide...
I wish you smooth sailing!
Okay, here's how I solved some of the struggles you presented with this class:
First of all, using the dark element is essential in order to not have those “famine” turns. In that way you can keep the train running and be useful even without shadows. That makes Call of doom bottom a great first turn action paired with Call to the Abyss top. On second turn, use Forceful spirits or Black barrage (or level 3 Dead bolt) to tag an enemy and get an xp in the process. Usually by then your allies have softened the enemies to a killing range for you to get your first shadow. I think you have misread the Call of doom top action; It doesn’t require you to be in melee with anyone, only your shadow needs to be next to them.
Shadow step is actually a very powerful card when paired with Restless spirits from level 2. You can move 6, attack 6 with curse on one turn and get another xp in the process. That reaches the annoying back row archer or imp that has been crippling your team from afar. In general, I recommend utilizing the teleport abilities more when you need to move long distances. You can easily position your shadows within 3-5 hexes and teleport into (or adjacent to) them on the next turn, and you would be in a position for a possible melee attack as well.
Hope this helps!
Great advice all around - for the teleports, I found I was frustrated by not having shadows where I wanted them to be - were you often using things that generated a single shadow within 2/3 to use them to slingshot yourself forward? Or did you more use it to go fight enemies in side rooms and corners and then teleport back to previous death sites?
Mostly shadows generated from previous deaths. Deathwalker has a great range so you could sniper some enemies in the back and teleport there on a same turn
The first mastery is a little sneaky, you remove a shadow if you would place a 6th. So placing one + using all 5 to kill something + negating damage to teleport can get you it with only level 1 cards.
DW was my starting class, and I retired shortly after hitting level 5. I was also paired with bannerspear in 4 player and I was often the one enabling the formation attacks because I didn't care too much about where my actual character was standing on any given turn. I barely moved shadows with cards, in fact I found myself not caring about my bottom action quite often and used the default move 2 to shuffle around way more than on any other class. Shadows that were falling behind would get eaten by anger of the dead or used for the summon.
I brought Call of Doom to every scenario solely for the bottom until I replaced it with Pulled Across. I also brought Shadow Step a lot of the time, like you mentioned the top is pretty awkward to use so I used it pretty often as a move 2 with decent initiative until I needed a big move + mini eclipse. The extra move cards plus not spending too many actions on moving shadows meant I didn't have too much trouble with my own mobility.
Oh, thanks for the clarification on accessing that mastery! Good call. So if you just left the shadows behind, were you generally weak going into a new room until you created a shadow or two?
@@phoenicksgaming You're definitely a weaker than having five shadows down right there but as long as you're tagging things before they die I didn't have much downtime, in 4p at least. Starting a room with a ranged attack and sniping an imp is totally fine, or chipping away at a big monster that will hopefully die before you go next turn. By the second room I was usually willing to break eclipse if the scenario called for it, with shadow step as well you can get a lot of shadows down right where you need them. I would also just not take the cards that need a lot of shadows around if it looked like a scenario with heavy movement.
Interesting, I'll have to try this out as an approach myself! @@footloop6241
Such a helpful video! The Deathwalker in my party is so hot & cold, will take turns at critical times that consist of "well, im going to make a shadow. And move this shadow. Done!" Its helpful to hear that you had a similar experience! I can at least give my friend the benefit of the doubt, maybe its the character and not him! 😂😂
Yeah, that hot and cold thing so deeply reflects my experience with the class. Is your friend enjoying it though?
@@phoenicksgaming yeah, when we're not teasing him for being useless 😜
Noice. I agree, a sometimes swingy class depending on the scenario. I look forward to your next set of class guides.
Cheers!
I'd say for the situation you brought up about the room deleting itself: At the end of the day, this is a game and if something silly like that with no rulings for or against your tokens, i would have simply just placed the shadows somewhere in the new room. In a group setting, i would have easily allowed something like that because it just isn't fun for the game to shaft you like that, especially without any sort of ruling.
@@jonlucich2854 I think you're right and that would have been the best call for sure
I played this to level 9 - also played the "ranged build", and I agree with a lot of what you say. But I loved this class. Takes a few levels to ramp, but the dmg output is massive!
Until about level 4 (Fleeting Dusk), my common opener was Eclipse top and Call to Abyss bottom - yep, I didn't set up call till the second cycle. I wanted turns to get my shadows positioned and start the damage output. I found that setting up Call either gave me shadow anxiety and slow dmg rotations, or gave me stamina troubles if I used Eclipse along with it.
I fully agree with the movement issues. Unless the scenario called for it, I was often only moving a handful of times per scenario - basically only ever Shadow Step or Sunless Apparition, or basic move. There were times I'd teleport and almost skip a whole room! The bottom action economy is extremely strained on this character with the shadow movements required. I was also by far the worst looter in our group.
I enhanced Fluid Night +1 and kept it with me the whole time - FN and Dominate were absolute workhorses. A head item that gives advantage is crucial.
Glad to hear the Eclipse opening is preferred by an expert! And I'm glad you had such a great time with this class
Thanks for another great Frosthaven video. Are you planning to get back to the puzzle book series? That was really useful for my group.
I will! Sorry I've been slow to update
Just want to say that your guides are really good. One of my teammates played with Deathwalker and did some nice damage. I'm moving on to Meteor soon, so it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on that one, when you get to it.
Thanks so much! I will try to get up to speed on meteor soon :)
I haven't played the class myself but I am kinda surprised about trouble with movement.
While moving around shadows does tend to use your bottom action, the class does have a couple of teleport to or next to a shadow which should allow you to catch up.
For shadow step you do need to remember that most effects that burn shadows tend to give xp, so the free shadow can be considered delayed xp.
I am kinda surprised you took ritual sacrifice at level 3. I'd expect that death bolt bottom would make a perfect combo with deepening dispair top.
I think you're kinda underestimating the bottom of the night takes shape.
First note the flexibility of the card. If you're already in position to attack you could just move a shadow and do the attack 3.
Teleporting to a shadow after moving the shadow 3 spaces can be a huge move.
Doing a move+ attack 3 with a bottom action is great value for almost any class. Also the Deathwalker cares about making kills and marking enemies. This card allows you to do a top and a bottom attack. So you could use your top attack to kill an enemy, move the shadow and attack and mark another enemy.
You've convinced me! I hadn't really considered the already being in position situation, you're right, and that does indeed generate a good amount of value. Thanks for the comment!
At lvl 1:
Call to the abyss + infuse dark in turn 1, then range attack with consume dark in turn 2, and mark an enemy that normally should die before your next turn, then you can start using that shadow the next turn, marking an enemy again. Normally you should have a shadow when you need it.
But usually in my dw build, I don't have many shadows out at the same time, because I use them, so I usually don't bring strength of the abyss.
Very nice opening line!
I played this through level 9 and I was the ranged heavy hitter of our 3-player team.Always doing 4-7 damage attacks every round, attacking twice if you counted bottom shadow-based damage. Optimized myself for cursing and I dropped 4-6 curses per rest cycle. I always played to create and use shadows fast to attack big. Start with making dark to charge attacks, to kill and make shadows, then alternate making dark and making shadows. The only problems I had were scenarios with few enemies, then harder to make shadows.
@armatey007 interesting! Glad to hear the class worked so consistently for you
Great job 👏
Thank you!
I loved this class, and i went in expecting it to be a less than good experience. Definitely has some low impact turns, but I've really carried my group with this little dude
Wonderful! I'm glad you had such a positive experience - any tips for me or other DW players?
I believe there's errata on your early example about Deathwalker losing all their shadows in that one scenario...the errata points out that all character tokens get to move into the room too.
Oh wow, that makes a HUGE difference. It was the scenario I was closest to losing during this experiment.
Wow live saver thx for that info.. any info what happens to summons? Do they mouve aswell?
@@blubblubwhat i think so but you can cheeck the faq or errata to be sure
If you put your 6th shadow you can remove and and place a new one!
All these hour long guides and no ones gives a good example of the first two or three turns.
I play this class and find it way to slow in a 4 player game. By the time you have enough shadows to do anything the room will be cleared and most of the shadows will be left behind. Gaining XP is also hard and very dark and shadow dependant.
Looking forward to retiring this class.
Your shadows will go with you when you are teleported to another room, just like summons.
The rules imply otherwise, in my opinion, but the faq agrees with you (thankfully)!
@@phoenicksgaming I agree, it's not immediately clear.
The FAQ addresses many of the shadows and rooms disappearing. Most of them the shadows teleport with you.
Someone else mentioned this - that's fair enough but I don't love when a game requires you to look at the FAQ to solve something that is somewhat counter to the way they've been presented in the rules.
@@phoenicksgaming I agree. There are a lot of edge cases in frosthaven
Q: cursing somthing with an tack wont work if that atack kills the target? Wo t the course be put in the monster deck then?
www.reddit.com/r/Gloomhaven/comments/15gvk8t/curse_on_monster_kill_in_frosthaven/ someone pointed this out to me cause I was playing it wrong myself
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Haha i played diviner for so long i think i pass on this class^^ hope someone of the other pick it up on my group
Also im not a fan of resources depending heroes.. triangles was a horrible char to play.
Triangles was a wild character! @@blubblubwhat