Love your work History Guy. The earlier flight that was to have 2 navigators was probably to allow shifts for needed sleep. The importance of navigation on the long over water flights is more important task than the pilot. Thus the most direct flight will save fuel. Something not stated by the History Guy, the navigator also had at the time of this flight, radio beam navigation. The radio wasn't just for talking over. Also Paul Mantz as a ex-racer would advise on knowing when to it be safe to run the fuel mix lean, to lengthen the range to fuel stops. According to an ace female pilot of the same era as Amelia, Pancho Barnes: Amelia wasn't a good pilot. As she was an airhead being pushed by her wealthy attention getting husband. Many good details about Noonan I didn't know.
@@stephenskinner4857 So no love lost for Amelia amongst The Sisterhood of her day -- no wonder she wanted to disappear. In fact, there's a rousing Hollywood historical romance there for someone to just put to paper --- photos of Earhart & Noonan together depict a good looking symmetrical couple.... ("O I've got a lover-ly bunch of co-co-nuts...!")
@@WALTERBROADDUS I suppose I should've researched it myself first. I was operating off the vague recollections of the film I haven't seen since the 20th century to be honest 😅
Thank you for this episode. Noonan moved to Oakland sometime prior to his last fight with Earhart. My wife grew up in that house and her parents lived in it for 50+ years. I always thought of Fred when in the house and felt sad that he was basically forgotten by history. Thanks for fleshing out his story.
Your 15-minute video has done more to remember and honor Fred Noonan than anything I've seen, very good Sir!! It truly is a shame, if not an outright crime, that his is so overshadowed by Earhart that his own accomplishments are forgotten to history.
I agree with Manning's assessment of Earhart's flying skills. In aviation circles Noonan is remembered by some for his pioneering work, while Earhart is seen as a socialite amateur pushed by her wealthy husband beyond her abilities.
Thank you for sharing! As a long time aviation nut, the last decade of study has shown me what unsung heroes the early aviation navigators were! Mr Noonan’s work with Pan American can’t be forgotten!
You received my email and fulfilled my request! What a great channel you run. I enjoy every episode. Folks, if you have a topic you want to hear about, Lance will serve you well. Thank you, Lance and team.
Thank you for this awesome history of a figure who has been unjustly lost to popular history. Fred Noonan was a navigator with impressive credits in his career, and it was only by a twist of fate that he was eclipsed by his pilot, Amelia Earhart. His contributions to early ship and aviation navigation in the Pacific Ocean are truly memorable. It was only one ill-fated flight that led to his demise. RIP Fred Noonan - you are a name that should be remembered as well!
Looking at Howland Island in Maps shows just how tiny it really is, especially when you pan back up just a bit to find its position in the ocean. Precise navigation would be absolutely necessary and there's no real alternative if you miss it (at that time, anyway)
Well done History Guy. I flew the Pacific a lot in my career. There has been so many theories about what happened to this flight with even more to come. I think they ran out of fuel flying grids trying to get a DF steer and became part of the ocean. Thanks for the video.
The problem with the crashed and sank theory is that credible radio transmissions from Earhart were received over the next few days. DF bearings from Pan Am Pacific stations roughly converged on Gardner Island now known as Nikumaroro, a part of the nation of Kiribati. See The International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery (TIGHAR).
It had been said to me before that Earhart was the most famous aviatress because her husband was her best PR. With the flurry of press recently about possibly finding her plane, it is good to have Noonan’s name and accomplishments being brought forward.
Saw a show on Amazon called across the Pacific about the beginings of Pan Am. When they started talking of Fred Noonan as the Navigator on all of the early Clipper trips.
No one ever talks about Fred Noonan. But leave it to The History Guy 🤓 to give you the info you wanted to know. Even if you didn't know you wanted to know !😏
You're incorrect by writing "No one ever talks about Fred Noonan". An actor portrayed Fred Noonan in a TV episode of Star Trek Voyager called "The 37's" (season 2 episode 1). The actor was given a decent number of lines.
The History Guy creates so many fantastic videos, but occasionally he really hits the nail on the head. This video was one of them. Like so many others, I have only heard that Noonan was "the drunkard navigator" on Earheart's tragic last flight. Thank you for adding real depth to his story.
An actor portrayed Fred Noonan in a TV episode of Star Trek Voyager called "The 37's" (season 2 episode 1). The actor was given a decent number of lines.
Thank you so much for recognizing Fred Noonan! He has been largely forgotten by history but those of us interested in aviation history do remember him. Another forgotten individual that made huge contributions in his field but also largely dismissed by history was/is Edsel Ford. Largely lost in the shadow of his father Henry, he played a leading role in moving the Ford Motor Company beyond the Model T and helped create Henry Ford's second great success, The Model A. I would love to see you do a piece on Edsel Ford.
*Looking forward to this one especially, definitively, conclusively answering a few questions about Mr Noonan's skill as a navigator and his propensity for drink*
As for the “propensity to drink”, in the video, a friend of Noonan is attested as saying that he never piloted a plane under the effects of alcohol, and he is described in the video as a very accomplished navigator in both sea and air. I wonder if the rumors may have come from either stereotypes about Irish people (he was of that descent) or people just wanting to find an easy explanation for the disappearance, or some combination of the two.
Thanks History Guy for giving Fred Noonan the credit he deserves. There is some evidence they lost one of their radio antennas during the take off from Lae. It was a long wire that ran along the belly, and the grass air field was rough. This could explain why the radio operators on Howland Island and the Cutter Itasca could hear Earhart clearly but she could not hear them (different antennas were used for transmitting and reception).
@@longsleevethong1457 already knew about jerrie..she needed better PR and 27 years makes a big difference in how dangerous an adventure can be. When Amelia tried it, the world wasn't set up for aircraft like it was after WW2 .that's why the long distance aircraft were mostly flying boats..
Another great Fred in history, I was named after my grandfather, and I find it interesting to learn about the many notable figures throughout history that have same first name as myself.
Did I enjoy this episode of the History Guy? Sir, I have enjoyed every episode you have ever presented and am confident I'll continue to enjoy them! Thank you Lance, for the continued education!
Very nice of this video mentioning Mr. Noonan, instead of the so hyped Amelia Eahart. I guess he was willing to be her shodow for the prospect of the publicity for her navigation school. Very humble man. Only if he knew how far air and sea navigation has gone. RIP
Finally someone defends Noonan..... I thought I was the only one. He was a remarkably experienced man.... but as you say ,most call him a drunk. They know nothing about the man. Wow ! You quoted one of my home town newspapers... The Corning, Ca Daily News.... who'd have thought !!? Thanks... a topic well overdue .
Thank you so very much for this . We have been given bad reports on Fred for years and now none of that holds water with your presentation . Cheers from NZ
5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2
Always a pleasure to hear your History recounts.. Thank You HG 07
Absolutely beautiful episode. Thank you for highlighting everyone who contributed throughout history to these aerial accomplishments. It just feels very right.
A great episode for a forgotten hero. Earhart and Noonan were featured on a Star Trek Voyager episode called The 37s and Noonan was portrayed as a heavy drinker. The episode did his memory no favors.
@@3henry214 oh the horror. How could I be so wrong. The world will now collapse because some person in a comment section misspelled a last name... gasp! 😜
This is a wonderful article. According to my grandmother, Fred Noonan was her fathers cousin. Beyond that, there is no other info and he has disappeared from the family lore. I always wondered if this is true, but never looked into it
Considering Noonan's competence and experience this puts paid to the idea they became lost. My bet would be on mechanical failure. Thank you for a fascinating story.
No matter your experience, ability, and reliability mistakes can still happen - they are simply less likely. And if they couldn't pick up the RDF signal for whatever reason then they were in fact lost, even if not neccesarily through any fault of their own.
I'm glad you didn't mention TIGHAR claiming every year to have astounding new evidence. They, and others, have made a living off of exaggerating or misrepresenting evidence of Earhart's and Noonan's fate. The story I find intriguing is the young girl who claimed to have heard shortwave signals from them. I haven't researched it enough to be sure about it, but it seems very interesting.
Well said. This makes a lot more sense than a lot of the extravagant claims on television. Back in the very late 90s or 2000 when the cable channels had better documentaries on them there was one about Amelia Earhart that described the technical deficiencies in her skills and based on that why she may have ran especially low on fuel and crashed. Other planes even today have that same problem about the pitch of the propellers. Yes it was very much a stunt flight promoted largely by her husband who was a famous publisher of course. The novelty of a woman doing such and such which is quite unnecessary and often gets people killed but that's entertainment.
The PBS doc of some years ago said that she lightened her load by dropping a lot of things before take-off from Lae ,including a long cable that was used as a radio antenna. It was deployed in flight to trail behind the plane giving weak radio signals a better chance both in transmission and reception. Likely the fatal mistake that was preventable, if only somebody had insisted that antenna cable stay onboard, given what later transpired near Howland Island. Does anybody have corroboration of this ?
@@njpaddler there is some truth to that one. The additional antenna would have helped. But all indications are Fred's navigation was dead on. Weather conditions did not let them see the island or the ship. The radio operator reported strong signals.
The trailing wire existed for the first attempt for use with a radio that used Morse Code. Manning was proficient in Morse. Earhart and Noonan had at best rudimentary skill. It was removed for the second attempt. Itasca could hear them. They could not hear Itasca. It has been suggested that wire found on the runway at Lae was a belly antenna on her aircraft used for her radio receiver. Before takeoff she taxied the plane past the beginning of the runway. The thought is the antenna caught on some brush. For complete information search for TIGHAR.
It is interesting that you made this video about Fred Noonan. I have researched the Earhart story since my high school days in 1960. I did a lot of research on Fred Noonan. His new wife was from Atwater California. They had only been married a short time before the flight. He was involved in an auto accident in Fresno California while traveling on his Honeymoon. In 1984 I was contacted by a relative of his wife, Mrs Metz, in Atwater. She claimed to have personal letters written by Fred while on the round-the-world flight. I met with her and her Nephew Jerry Pasadori at his furniture shop in Atwater. I was astounded to see a shoe box full of handwritten letters from Fred all dated and mailed during the last flight. I read and photographed a few of them. Fred's interpretation of the last flight was very different from the one Amelia told in her correspondence sent back home during the flight. She tended to leave Fred out of all stories. At the meeting, I was told by Mrs. Metz that I could use any of the letters for a new book I planned to publish. But a week later I was told that she wanted a large sum of money for the letters. I never saw the letters again! I'm told that they are out there somewhere. But where I have never been able to find out. Can you just imagine the story they will tell if they are ever published? Why that hasn't been done by now I'll never know. They will rewrite history.
That would be an amazing primary history source, if your story is true, and really shed some light on the Earhart mystery. But I'm very skeptical about your story, to say the least. Do you have any hard evidence that these letters or the people connected with them exist? Questions: why did Mrs. Metz of Atwater contact you of all people? What was your connection? How did Fred Noonan send letters home during the 1937 flight? Where are your photographs of these letters that you say you took? Who is "Mrs. Metz" and where is she now? Supposedly this happened 40 years ago - have you been in contact with "Mrs. Metz" since? Can you prove your claim that she demanded a large sum of money for the letters? How much money? How did she contact you - by mail or by phone (the only options in 1984)? Sounds sketchy. Do you have any proof at all, or is this just another Amelia Earhart fable? Prove this story if you can. I think it's fake. Prove me wrong, please!
@@michaelarrowood4315 Wow, so many questions. Just do a Google search for "The Noonan Letters" and you will find that they are now in the San Diego Air and Space Museum. I did not know that until a few days ago. In 1984 I lived near Atwater and was heavy into the research of Earhart. I have tons of research material contained in 6 Bankers Boxes. I don't think I can post a photo on this site. If there was a way, I would send you one of the photos.
@@michaelarrowood4315 I don't think it would be appropriate to continue this discussion on the History Guys page. Provide a way for me to communicate with you and I will answer all of your questions.
@@michaelarrowood4315 The History Guy did not reply to my request to post more information. So for now I'll just say, do a Google search for "The Noonan Letters". If you do you will find that they really do exist and are now at the San Diego Air and Space Museum. If you want to know more about my part in this story you will have to contact me directly.
It seems most likely that damage to the radio is what got them killed. She was sending transmissions, but couldn't receive them, and be guided in. Also, she should have done a radio check when she was leaving Lae.
Well,this cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had of Noonan. Gordon Cooper ,who knew Fred and Amelia,said that pilots of his area believed that either Noonan or Amelia failed to use offsetting navigation,thus couldnt find their destination and ran out of fuel trying to find it.
Well done. So much has been written and speculated about AE and FN but never heard about the second navigator. Also several “writers” reported that she was having an affair with FN.
Speculate: if Fred Noonan had survived and opened that navigation school, how much our knowledge of flying and navigation have changed so that we might be going further and farther much sooner than we did? Considering his ability to navigate key would’ve been a wonderful addition to the space program as they were plottingroots to other planets and setting off satellites and planning ventures to the moon and Mars and other places. If it’s truly a great loss.❤
I often notice that you include postage stamps in your videos. I'm a philatelist and would enjoy your "history that deserves to be remembered" regarding postal history. I realize there's lots of published history on the subject, but I'd like to hear your general observations. Thanks.
I have always been interested in what happened to Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan, but never heard anything about Fred until today. He was clearly worthy of being remembered. The mystery of their disappearance and the speculation, searches, and all the hype, grabs my attention easily. 85 years have passed, and no trace has REALLY ever been found. Maybe one day their disappearance will be solved. This is history well worth being remembered. ;-)
I had previously read that Amelia Earhart's piloting skills were suspect. Henry Manning was concerned after the Honolulu crash which has been attributed by some as pilot error.
It was a ground loop. It can happen to anyone who flies a taildragger, regardless of experience or skills. Blame physics. Due to the geometry of the landing gear, a tailwheel airplane is much happier going down the runway backwards than forwards. Rarely dangerous but always inconvenient and embarrassing, this tendency to ground loop was a major impetus in the development of tricycle landing gear. The ground-handling peculiarities of tailwheel aircraft are why pilots need a special endorsement to fly them [14 CFR § 61.31(i)]. Also, the three-takeoffs-and-landings-in-90-days currency requirement to carry passengers can be met with touch-and-goes in a tricycle airplane but must be made to a full stop in a taildragger [14 CFR § 61.57(a)(1)]. The reason for that is, at low speeds, the rudder becomes much less effective and the possibility of a ground loop increases.
Brilliant episode. Absolutely loved learning more about this unknown, yet important, historical figure. However, I cannot find any record of this Henry Manning being recognized with the CMOH. Am I missing something?
Since there seems to be a running theme here about people who disappeared, you could do one about the Russian guy who invented the Theremin. It's not clear if he did a runner or if he was kidnapped and spirited away back to Russia.
His name was Thermin but he returned to soviet Russia later and was drafted into the spy business and invented a bug a listening device that was only triggered by talking a device was found in a plaque in the American embassy in Russia they tried to find it but one day. they accidentally discovered it when someone started talking 😮 and he was ordered to spy on Stalin as well by listening to the vibration from glass windows
According to what I remember from a History Channel program, Theremin was a Soviet spy. Using demonstrations of his device as a way to tour U.S. factories.
@@mannywilliams6409 I was watching a show called weird science yes it’s a real series and it mentioned him and that he married a Africa American woman who he abandoned after being shunned, and later came back to apologize to her and the series also featured the cruel and inhumane treatment of orphans that were being used in in what we would call illegal experiments against their will like in the case what causes stuttering. That was so 🤬😱🤯😢🤦🏻♀️
@@mannywilliams6409 According to Albert Glinsky's 2000 book, _Theremin: Ether Music and Espionage,_ Lev Sergeyevich Termen didn't get into espionage until after his abrupt 1938 return to the Soviet Union. While in prison he developed the Buran eavesdropping system, a precursor to the modern laser microphone, and his most famous spy device, The Thing. Hidden in a wooden replica of the Great Seal of the United States, The Thing hung in the U.S. ambassador's Moscow office from 1945 until its accidental discovery in 1952. A passive listening device, The Thing is considered a predecessor of today's RFID technology. According to Glinsky, Termen wasn't kidnapped but returned to the USSR because of tax and financial difficulties in the United States. Among Termen's many other inventions are an electromechanical television system (ca. 1925) and the world's first drum machine (1931). PS: If anyone wants to see The Thing, a replica is on display at the NSA's National Cryptologic Museum.
That was fascinating! What a shame he has spent so much time in the shadows despite his own pioneering work. I wonder if the speculation about his drinking was people falling back on lazy Irish stereotypes, rather than any actual knowledge of Mr. Noonan's habits. He would have understood his responsibilities as navigator and it seems unreasonable to me that he would have turned up for such a demanding leg unfit.
I always knew about the man that flew with Earthart but never his name. Also thought he was a co-pilot not navigator. In 16 minutes, I learned so much more than ever before. I am curious about the new fact claiming that her airplane was found on the bottom of the seafloor very deep. It was directly inline with that island. Sounds like the plane just plain (no pun intended 😂😂😂) ran out of fuel. And if they didn't have any rescue gear, they would have been gobbled up by sharks as the are is plentiful with them.
I'm just pondering over the way in which we construct heroes. They become iconic, acquire supernatural powers, and, where socio-political constraints are being tested, push all other players into the background. I guess that what I'd really like to see is a movie which gives some depth to the cast of characters surrounding this venture. The ground loop thing might be interesting from several points of view.
In the late 80s, the Shadow got a comic from DC. In one issue, it is revealed that Amelia Earhart was an agent of the Shadow and during her around the world flight, she was to complete a mission; and then disappear. She asked what if someone found out the truth. The Shadow replied that by the time someone did, it would just be another wild story.
I've known Amelia's story since childhood. Just a general outline of her life. However as a history buff I was woefully ignorant of Fred Noonan. The first time I even heard his name was on an episode of Star Trek Voyager. That's when I looked him up to see if he was a real person . Who says science fiction can't have real world benefits.
I think she only wanted the best to work with her. What a inspiration the both of them. Sometimes it is better to be in the background instead the spotlight ❤ you know the wind beneath the wings
1:22 *So actually the first woman to **_be flown_** across the Atlantic period sign of the times. On May 21st, 1932 Amelia Earhart became the first female pilot to fly solo and non stop across the Atlantic Ocean.*
I think that even if they had found Howland Island, actually landing there would have been difficult. They had people build a makeshift runway there, but it was curved.
God love ya, Mr History Guy, in calling attention to Fred Noonan, a sadly unsung hero.
Love your work History Guy. The earlier flight that was to have 2 navigators was probably to allow shifts for needed sleep. The importance of navigation on the long over water flights is more important task than the pilot. Thus the most direct flight will save fuel. Something not stated by the History Guy, the navigator also had at the time of this flight, radio beam navigation. The radio wasn't just for talking over. Also Paul Mantz as a ex-racer would advise on knowing when to it be safe to run the fuel mix lean, to lengthen the range to fuel stops. According to an ace female pilot of the same era as Amelia, Pancho Barnes: Amelia wasn't a good pilot. As she was an airhead being pushed by her wealthy attention getting husband. Many good details about Noonan I didn't know.
@@stephenskinner4857 So no love lost for Amelia amongst The Sisterhood of her day -- no wonder she wanted to disappear. In fact, there's a rousing Hollywood historical romance there for someone to just put to paper --- photos of Earhart & Noonan together depict a good looking symmetrical couple.... ("O I've got a lover-ly bunch of co-co-nuts...!")
Paul Mantz is worthy of a whole episode. Legendary stunt pilot in Hollywood for decades. Tragically died filming, "The Flight of the Phoenix."
Good film. Wasn't he also one of the pilots in the great Waldo Pepper?
@@HM2SGT I dont think he was involved in Waldo Pepper, It was made in 1975. He was killed in a crash while making The Flight of the Phoenix in 1965.
@@HM2SGT Actually, his partner Frank Tallman worked on that 1975 film. Paul died in 1965.
@@HM2SGT No. Paul Mantz was killed years earlier. His former partner, Frank Tallman, managed the aerial stunts for "The Great Waldo Pepper."
@@WALTERBROADDUS I suppose I should've researched it myself first. I was operating off the vague recollections of the film I haven't seen since the 20th century to be honest 😅
Thank you for this episode. Noonan moved to Oakland sometime prior to his last fight with Earhart. My wife grew up in that house and her parents lived in it for 50+ years. I always thought of Fred when in the house and felt sad that he was basically forgotten by history. Thanks for fleshing out his story.
Yes, Fred Noonan should be remembered. I think the fact that Amelia Earhart's husband was a publisher had a lot to do with it.
Your 15-minute video has done more to remember and honor Fred Noonan than anything I've seen, very good Sir!! It truly is a shame, if not an outright crime, that his is so overshadowed by Earhart that his own accomplishments are forgotten to history.
I agree with Manning's assessment of Earhart's flying skills. In aviation circles Noonan is remembered by some for his pioneering work, while Earhart is seen as a socialite amateur pushed by her wealthy husband beyond her abilities.
I had no idea about Mr Noonan's stature. An unsung hero for sure. What he could have done for long distance air navigation in WW2 will never be known.
Thank you for sharing! As a long time aviation nut, the last decade of study has shown me what unsung heroes the early aviation navigators were! Mr Noonan’s work with Pan American can’t be forgotten!
You received my email and fulfilled my request! What a great channel you run. I enjoy every episode. Folks, if you have a topic you want to hear about, Lance will serve you well. Thank you, Lance and team.
Thanks for the idea!
Did you happen to catch the retirement flight of the Hawaii Martin Mars with the Canadian Snowbirds escort? Awesome tribute.
Thank you for the request. This was a great "deserves to be remembered" episode.
Thank you for this awesome history of a figure who has been unjustly lost to popular history. Fred Noonan was a navigator with impressive credits in his career, and it was only by a twist of fate that he was eclipsed by his pilot, Amelia Earhart. His contributions to early ship and aviation navigation in the Pacific Ocean are truly memorable. It was only one ill-fated flight that led to his demise. RIP Fred Noonan - you are a name that should be remembered as well!
Looking at Howland Island in Maps shows just how tiny it really is, especially when you pan back up just a bit to find its position in the ocean. Precise navigation would be absolutely necessary and there's no real alternative if you miss it (at that time, anyway)
Well done History Guy. I flew the Pacific a lot in my career. There has been so many theories about what happened to this flight with even more to come. I think they ran out of fuel flying grids trying to get a DF steer and became part of the ocean. Thanks for the video.
Sounds like she may have crashed the plane...
Me too.😊
The problem with the crashed and sank theory is that credible radio transmissions from Earhart were received over the next few days. DF bearings from Pan Am Pacific stations roughly converged on Gardner Island now known as Nikumaroro, a part of the nation of Kiribati. See The International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery (TIGHAR).
It had been said to me before that Earhart was the most famous aviatress because her husband was her best PR. With the flurry of press recently about possibly finding her plane, it is good to have Noonan’s name and accomplishments being brought forward.
You beat me to it. George Putnam was a genius at marketing and promotion. I think he would be a good subject for a THG video.
Saw a show on Amazon called across the Pacific about the beginings of Pan Am. When they started talking of Fred Noonan as the Navigator on all of the early Clipper trips.
THG, thnk ou for helping tho set the record straight about Fred Noonan. I watch your channel every week with relish.
No one ever talks about Fred Noonan. But leave it to The History Guy 🤓 to give you the info you wanted to know. Even if you didn't know you wanted to know !😏
You're incorrect by writing "No one ever talks about Fred Noonan". An actor portrayed Fred Noonan in a TV episode of Star Trek Voyager called "The 37's" (season 2 episode 1). The actor was given a decent number of lines.
@@davea6314 But can you give me 2 more examples?
@@constipatedinsincity4424 I don't need to because only one example proves you wrong.
The History Guy creates so many fantastic videos, but occasionally he really hits the nail on the head. This video was one of them. Like so many others, I have only heard that Noonan was "the drunkard navigator" on Earheart's tragic last flight. Thank you for adding real depth to his story.
An actor portrayed Fred Noonan in a TV episode of Star Trek Voyager called "The 37's" (season 2 episode 1). The actor was given a decent number of lines.
IIRC, that actor was the late David Graf; Tackleberry from the "Police Academy" movies.
@@tygrkhat4087Correct. I was a teen when Police Academy came out, and I loved it. I popped when I saw David on Voyager.
Another great episode!
Thank you so much for recognizing Fred Noonan! He has been largely forgotten by history but those of us interested in aviation history do remember him. Another forgotten individual that made huge contributions in his field but also largely dismissed by history was/is Edsel Ford. Largely lost in the shadow of his father Henry, he played a leading role in moving the Ford Motor Company beyond the Model T and helped create Henry Ford's second great success, The Model A. I would love to see you do a piece on Edsel Ford.
*Looking forward to this one especially, definitively, conclusively answering a few questions about Mr Noonan's skill as a navigator and his propensity for drink*
As for the “propensity to drink”, in the video, a friend of Noonan is attested as saying that he never piloted a plane under the effects of alcohol, and he is described in the video as a very accomplished navigator in both sea and air.
I wonder if the rumors may have come from either stereotypes about Irish people (he was of that descent) or people just wanting to find an easy explanation for the disappearance, or some combination of the two.
@@DiamondKingStudios indeed. I think Lance addressed this quite well. 👍
It's episodes like this that keep me watching you. Thank you for highlighting such an amazing and forgotten man!
Trust THG to tell the stories no one else is telling.
Not really another channel mentioned the discovery of insulin not to long ago but THG had already covered it the other channel went into depth.
And what channel would that be? Mind sharing with the class? @@semigoth299
Thanks History Guy for giving Fred Noonan the credit he deserves.
There is some evidence they lost one of their radio antennas during the take off from Lae. It was a long wire that ran along the belly, and the grass air field was rough. This could explain why the radio operators on Howland Island and the Cutter Itasca could hear Earhart clearly but she could not hear them (different antennas were used for transmitting and reception).
Thank you so much, i had no idea about Amelia's navigators. Its always a joy to learn new information about a familiar subject!
Glad to be here to learn it with you. It’s a shame no one ever contributed a story to him.
Now go learn about the woman who actually succeeded in flying around the world…
@@longsleevethong1457 already knew about jerrie..she needed better PR and 27 years makes a big difference in how dangerous an adventure can be.
When Amelia tried it, the world wasn't set up for aircraft like it was after WW2 .that's why the long distance aircraft were mostly flying boats..
@@stevecausey545 post did it in 1933
Another great Fred in history, I was named after my grandfather, and I find it interesting to learn about the many notable figures throughout history that have same first name as myself.
Did I enjoy this episode of the History Guy? Sir, I have enjoyed every episode you have ever presented and am confident I'll continue to enjoy them! Thank you Lance, for the continued education!
Thank you for an outstanding video on Fred Noonan. I never knew anything about him. I knew he was Earharts navigator, but that’s all.
I love your channel...and I must say, this is probably the _most_ "History that deserves to be remembered."
Very nice of this video mentioning Mr. Noonan, instead of the so hyped Amelia Eahart. I guess he was willing to be her shodow for the prospect of the publicity for her navigation school. Very humble man. Only if he knew how far air and sea navigation has gone. RIP
Finally someone defends Noonan..... I thought I was the only one. He was a remarkably experienced man.... but as you say ,most call him a drunk. They know nothing about the man.
Wow !
You quoted one of my home town newspapers... The Corning, Ca Daily News.... who'd have thought !!?
Thanks... a topic well overdue .
Yet he still got lost….
Thank you so very much for this . We have been given bad reports on Fred for years and now none of that holds water with your presentation . Cheers from NZ
Always a pleasure to hear your History recounts.. Thank You HG 07
Great episode.
Absolutely beautiful episode. Thank you for highlighting everyone who contributed throughout history to these aerial accomplishments. It just feels very right.
A great episode for a forgotten hero. Earhart and Noonan were featured on a Star Trek Voyager episode called The 37s and Noonan was portrayed as a heavy drinker. The episode did his memory no favors.
Another brilliant episode! Thank you sir!
Thank you for doing this. I've always felt Mr. Newnan deserves more recognization. It's good to see it.
You could begin by getting his name right, it's Noonan, not Newman...
Whenever I see “Newnan” I think of the city in Coweta County, GA.
@@3henry214 oh the horror. How could I be so wrong. The world will now collapse because some person in a comment section misspelled a last name... gasp! 😜
Thank you for the very informative article on Noonan and Earhart !
This is a wonderful article. According to my grandmother, Fred Noonan was her fathers cousin. Beyond that, there is no other info and he has disappeared from the family lore. I always wondered if this is true, but never looked into it
I had never heard this part of the story, thank you for additional information on a tragic story.💯
Considering Noonan's competence and experience this puts paid to the idea they became lost. My bet would be on mechanical failure. Thank you for a fascinating story.
Ran out of fuel searching for Howland.
No matter your experience, ability, and reliability mistakes can still happen - they are simply less likely.
And if they couldn't pick up the RDF signal for whatever reason then they were in fact lost, even if not neccesarily through any fault of their own.
I'm glad you didn't mention TIGHAR claiming every year to have astounding new evidence. They, and others, have made a living off of exaggerating or misrepresenting evidence of Earhart's and Noonan's fate. The story I find intriguing is the young girl who claimed to have heard shortwave signals from them. I haven't researched it enough to be sure about it, but it seems very interesting.
Thanks for filling me in on Fred's many accomplishments. I believe they made it to Nikumarro and this makes death by coconut crab even more tragic.
@ 9.30 notice the Golden Gate bridge is under construction without any of its cables or roadbed in place yet as the Clipper flies across Frisco bay..
This was a really good video. I'm definitely an aviation fan but didn't know all this about Fred Noonan
Absolutely wonderful. Thank you.
Well said. This makes a lot more sense than a lot of the extravagant claims on television. Back in the very late 90s or 2000 when the cable channels had better documentaries on them there was one about Amelia Earhart that described the technical deficiencies in her skills and based on that why she may have ran especially low on fuel and crashed. Other planes even today have that same problem about the pitch of the propellers. Yes it was very much a stunt flight promoted largely by her husband who was a famous publisher of course. The novelty of a woman doing such and such which is quite unnecessary and often gets people killed but that's entertainment.
The PBS doc of some years ago said that she lightened her load by dropping a lot of things before take-off from Lae ,including a long cable that was used as a radio antenna. It was deployed in flight to trail behind the plane giving weak radio signals a better chance both in transmission and reception. Likely the fatal mistake that was preventable, if only somebody had insisted that antenna cable stay onboard, given what later transpired near Howland Island. Does anybody have corroboration of this ?
@@njpaddler there is some truth to that one. The additional antenna would have helped. But all indications are Fred's navigation was dead on. Weather conditions did not let them see the island or the ship. The radio operator reported strong signals.
The trailing wire existed for the first attempt for use with a radio that used Morse Code. Manning was proficient in Morse. Earhart and Noonan had at best rudimentary skill. It was removed for the second attempt.
Itasca could hear them. They could not hear Itasca. It has been suggested that wire found on the runway at Lae was a belly antenna on her aircraft used for her radio receiver. Before takeoff she taxied the plane past the beginning of the runway. The thought is the antenna caught on some brush.
For complete information search for TIGHAR.
It is interesting that you made this video about Fred Noonan. I have researched the Earhart story since my high school days in 1960. I did a lot of research on Fred Noonan. His new wife was from Atwater California. They had only been married a short time before the flight. He was involved in an auto accident in Fresno California while traveling on his Honeymoon. In 1984 I was contacted by a relative of his wife, Mrs Metz, in Atwater. She claimed to have personal letters written by Fred while on the round-the-world flight. I met with her and her Nephew Jerry Pasadori at his furniture shop in Atwater. I was astounded to see a shoe box full of handwritten letters from Fred all dated and mailed during the last flight. I read and photographed a few of them. Fred's interpretation of the last flight was very different from the one Amelia told in her correspondence sent back home during the flight. She tended to leave Fred out of all stories. At the meeting, I was told by Mrs. Metz that I could use any of the letters for a new book I planned to publish. But a week later I was told that she wanted a large sum of money for the letters. I never saw the letters again! I'm told that they are out there somewhere. But where I have never been able to find out. Can you just imagine the story they will tell if they are ever published? Why that hasn't been done by now I'll never know. They will rewrite history.
That would be an amazing primary history source, if your story is true, and really shed some light on the Earhart mystery. But I'm very skeptical about your story, to say the least. Do you have any hard evidence that these letters or the people connected with them exist? Questions: why did Mrs. Metz of Atwater contact you of all people? What was your connection? How did Fred Noonan send letters home during the 1937 flight? Where are your photographs of these letters that you say you took? Who is "Mrs. Metz" and where is she now? Supposedly this happened 40 years ago - have you been in contact with "Mrs. Metz" since? Can you prove your claim that she demanded a large sum of money for the letters? How much money? How did she contact you - by mail or by phone (the only options in 1984)? Sounds sketchy. Do you have any proof at all, or is this just another Amelia Earhart fable? Prove this story if you can. I think it's fake. Prove me wrong, please!
@@michaelarrowood4315 Wow, so many questions. Just do a Google search for "The Noonan Letters" and you will find that they are now in the San Diego Air and Space Museum. I did not know that until a few days ago. In 1984 I lived near Atwater and was heavy into the research of Earhart. I have tons of research material contained in 6 Bankers Boxes. I don't think I can post a photo on this site. If there was a way, I would send you one of the photos.
@@michaelarrowood4315 I don't think it would be appropriate to continue this discussion on the History Guys page. Provide a way for me to communicate with you and I will answer all of your questions.
@TheHistoryGuyChannel Would you mind if I answered @michaelarrowood4315's questions on this page?
@@michaelarrowood4315 The History Guy did not reply to my request to post more information. So for now I'll just say, do a Google search for "The Noonan Letters". If you do you will find that they really do exist and are now at the San Diego Air and Space Museum. If you want to know more about my part in this story you will have to contact me directly.
Excellent job; very well done!
Very interesting and an excellent counter to the folk who want to blame the flights failure on Noonan.
I like how old films, say of the pair leaving Lae, are now being described as video.
I appreciate you and thank you for making content.
9:25 Interesting to see the Golden Gate Bridge under construction.
It seems most likely that damage to the radio is what got them killed. She was sending transmissions, but couldn't receive them, and be guided in. Also, she should have done a radio check when she was leaving Lae.
That is one of the possibilities.
Initially headed west, Earhart stopped at Hawaii, not going on to Howland Island. Going easterly, she sadly did not get to Howland …
Well,this cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had of Noonan. Gordon Cooper ,who knew Fred and Amelia,said that pilots of his area believed that either Noonan or Amelia failed to use offsetting navigation,thus couldnt find their destination and ran out of fuel trying to find it.
Another great episode Lance.
Thank You
Thank you for the video. I always thought of the incident as "Amelia and that other guy" while wondering about him
Excellent topic and coverage
Well done. So much has been written and speculated about AE and FN but never heard about the second navigator. Also several “writers” reported that she was having an affair with FN.
Speculate: if Fred Noonan had survived and opened that navigation school, how much our knowledge of flying and navigation have changed so that we might be going further and farther much sooner than we did? Considering his ability to navigate key would’ve been a wonderful addition to the space program as they were plottingroots to other planets and setting off satellites and planning ventures to the moon and Mars and other places. If it’s truly a great loss.❤
Thank you History Guy
Much obliged for this video.
Tank you for this video…. I have always believed it was a one persons solo achievement
I often notice that you include postage stamps in your videos. I'm a philatelist and would enjoy your "history that deserves to be remembered" regarding postal history. I realize there's lots of published history on the subject, but I'd like to hear your general observations. Thanks.
Mail via Missile: USPS expedited
th-cam.com/video/XUFmE-JDido/w-d-xo.html.
th-cam.com/video/s7gcO-Qs9eY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-q40xK-2cZjs-dcr
@@TheHistoryGuyChannel Thanks.
In a suitably modern way, THG, you have provided that biography for the world, so that Noonan will be remembered.
I have always been interested in what happened to Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan, but never heard anything about Fred until today. He was clearly worthy of being remembered.
The mystery of their disappearance and the speculation, searches, and all the hype, grabs my attention easily. 85 years have passed, and no trace has REALLY ever been found. Maybe one day their disappearance will be solved.
This is history well worth being remembered. ;-)
I had previously read that Amelia Earhart's piloting skills were suspect. Henry Manning was concerned after the Honolulu crash which has been attributed by some as pilot error.
She was a dei hire
It was a ground loop. It can happen to anyone who flies a taildragger, regardless of experience or skills. Blame physics. Due to the geometry of the landing gear, a tailwheel airplane is much happier going down the runway backwards than forwards. Rarely dangerous but always inconvenient and embarrassing, this tendency to ground loop was a major impetus in the development of tricycle landing gear.
The ground-handling peculiarities of tailwheel aircraft are why pilots need a special endorsement to fly them [14 CFR § 61.31(i)]. Also, the three-takeoffs-and-landings-in-90-days currency requirement to carry passengers can be met with touch-and-goes in a tricycle airplane but must be made to a full stop in a taildragger [14 CFR § 61.57(a)(1)]. The reason for that is, at low speeds, the rudder becomes much less effective and the possibility of a ground loop increases.
@@johnopalko5223They certainly were loaded to the hilt with fuel, which isn't likely to improve the handling.
Brilliant episode. Absolutely loved learning more about this unknown, yet important, historical figure. However, I cannot find any record of this Henry Manning being recognized with the CMOH. Am I missing something?
Played by Christopher Eccleston--yes, the ninth Doctor Who--in the movie that came out about her a few years ago
He did everything in his short life, but a full one 😢❤
Sad...Thank you
Back in the Saddle Again Naturally
Since there seems to be a running theme here about people who disappeared, you could do one about the Russian guy who invented the Theremin. It's not clear if he did a runner or if he was kidnapped and spirited away back to Russia.
His name was Thermin but he returned to soviet Russia later and was drafted into the spy business and invented a bug a listening device that was only triggered by talking a device was found in a plaque in the American embassy in Russia they tried to find it but one day. they accidentally discovered it when someone started talking 😮 and he was ordered to spy on Stalin as well by listening to the vibration from glass windows
According to what I remember from a History Channel program, Theremin was a Soviet spy. Using demonstrations of his device as a way to tour U.S. factories.
@@mannywilliams6409 I was watching a show called weird science yes it’s a real series and it mentioned him and that he married a Africa American woman who he abandoned after being shunned, and later came back to apologize to her and the series also featured the cruel and inhumane treatment of orphans that were being used in in what we would call illegal experiments against their will like in the case what causes stuttering. That was so 🤬😱🤯😢🤦🏻♀️
@@mannywilliams6409 According to Albert Glinsky's 2000 book, _Theremin: Ether Music and Espionage,_ Lev Sergeyevich Termen didn't get into espionage until after his abrupt 1938 return to the Soviet Union. While in prison he developed the Buran eavesdropping system, a precursor to the modern laser microphone, and his most famous spy device, The Thing. Hidden in a wooden replica of the Great Seal of the United States, The Thing hung in the U.S. ambassador's Moscow office from 1945 until its accidental discovery in 1952. A passive listening device, The Thing is considered a predecessor of today's RFID technology.
According to Glinsky, Termen wasn't kidnapped but returned to the USSR because of tax and financial difficulties in the United States.
Among Termen's many other inventions are an electromechanical television system (ca. 1925) and the world's first drum machine (1931).
PS: If anyone wants to see The Thing, a replica is on display at the NSA's National Cryptologic Museum.
Love your videos
Any monkey can fly, hardest part is knowing where you are going. Straight and level is the first lesson
That was fascinating! What a shame he has spent so much time in the shadows despite his own pioneering work. I wonder if the speculation about his drinking was people falling back on lazy Irish stereotypes, rather than any actual knowledge of Mr. Noonan's habits. He would have understood his responsibilities as navigator and it seems unreasonable to me that he would have turned up for such a demanding leg unfit.
Keep’em coming HG
We must be cosmically linked, I was reading about Miss Earhart the other day and it hit me that no one talks about Noonan.
I always knew about the man that flew with Earthart but never his name. Also thought he was a co-pilot not navigator. In 16 minutes, I learned so much more than ever before. I am curious about the new fact claiming that her airplane was found on the bottom of the seafloor very deep. It was directly inline with that island. Sounds like the plane just plain (no pun intended 😂😂😂) ran out of fuel. And if they didn't have any rescue gear, they would have been gobbled up by sharks as the are is plentiful with them.
Good morning! 👋🏽 😊
That’s Amazing, I never knew this😮
Very nice thanks
Biggs and Barr broke this first, they declared April 4th Fred Noonan day. Glad to see this!!
This reminds me, you should cover the deadly Dole Air Race of 1927! 🛩
I've always thought it isn't fair that no one ever talks about Fred when this tragedy is discussed.
@@sks406 it's a bit like Apollo 11... everyone remembers Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin. No one remembers Mike Collins flying around the Moon.
I thinks it ridiculous that no one knows the name of the first woman who actually succeeded in flying around the world instead of the one who failed…
I'm just pondering over the way in which we construct heroes. They become iconic, acquire supernatural powers, and, where socio-political constraints are being tested, push all other players into the background. I guess that what I'd really like to see is a movie which gives some depth to the cast of characters surrounding this venture. The ground loop thing might be interesting from several points of view.
Now I am inspired to watch Robert Redford in the great Waldo Pepper again 😸
In the late 80s, the Shadow got a comic from DC. In one issue, it is revealed that Amelia Earhart was an agent of the Shadow and during her around the world flight, she was to complete a mission; and then disappear. She asked what if someone found out the truth. The Shadow replied that by the time someone did, it would just be another wild story.
Uh, yeah... whatever. Did you actually watch the video? It was about Fred Noonan, not DC comics.
Agreed. Pancho Barnes' biography is much spicier.
I've known Amelia's story since childhood. Just a general outline of her life. However as a history buff I was woefully ignorant of Fred Noonan. The first time I even heard his name was on an episode of Star Trek Voyager. That's when I looked him up to see if he was a real person . Who says science fiction can't have real world benefits.
What’s the name of the first woman to successfully fly around the world without crashing…?
@@longsleevethong1457 If I'm not mistaken I believe is was Geraldine Mock in 1964 or 65.
@@raoulk35 shouldn’t we all know her name instead?
I think she only wanted the best to work with her. What a inspiration the both of them. Sometimes it is better to be in the background instead the spotlight ❤ you know the wind beneath the wings
It's kind of hard to get out of the shadow of someone like Earhart!
1:22 *So actually the first woman to **_be flown_** across the Atlantic period sign of the times. On May 21st, 1932 Amelia Earhart became the first female pilot to fly solo and non stop across the Atlantic Ocean.*
8:39 possibly San Francisco Bay ? . . . . . and 9:20 the Golden Gate Bridge still under construction ?
I think that even if they had found Howland Island, actually landing there would have been difficult. They had people build a makeshift runway there, but it was curved.
I met some of the original 99s before they passed and they agreed that Amelia was one of the worst pilots of their group, especially her landings.