It was specifically designed as a cargo aircraft and a far cry from the C-54s they were intended to replace. Riding in the bowels of a C-130 is no cakewalk but again, the “C” designation says it all.
@@krautyvonlederhosen Been in a C-130 too (Ramstein to Aviano). Orders of magnitude better than the 124. I will admit, however, that Business Class in a 777 is MUCH better than either. 😁
@@mjordan812 It’s been years since my time spent w/Sealift command in and around Diego Garcia but it was still time well spent and wouldn’t trade it for the world. It just adds up to who and what I am today. Though I ended up in Texas prison system, that doesn’t necessarily define me, though my soon to be ex wife might not agree.
@@mjordan812I flew in a couple 130’s in Afghanistan and Kuwait, my first time ever riding in one was without seats. I just sat on the floor of the cargo bay, we all had to hold on to each other so as to not roll down to the end of the aircraft on takeoff 😂
Your episodes are always interesting, but what continues to impress me most is that while the episodes often involve incidents, you always manage to close them with the names of those involved. They may be incidents, but to the families of those involved, its the memories of the names of the fallen that are of paramount importance. History isn't incidents, its people.
We all know that governments love their secrets but when does it end? If a government actually works for the people there needs to be a point when such secrets are revealed. Thanks for bringing this out of the shadows, History Guy!
By the early 1960s the C-124 Globemasters were in Air National Guard inventories. Our elementary school went to the air guard base to see these monsters of the skies. I think the thing that impressed me on our tour of aircraft was that long ladder that went up to cockpit. That was scary to climb for a fifth grader but, I did it.
This makes me think of the crash of a Northwest Orient DC4 into Lake Michigan in 1950. Although they found some fragments of airplane and humans, the wreck has never been located. And Lake Michigan is a lot smaller than the Atlantic. Good video. Would be nice if they found the plane wreckage, but then again it took over 70 years to find the Titanic.
I flew on a few C-124 GlobeMasters back in the 1960s. The last one I remember was when I was on a 100 day TDY from Vandenberg AFB Calif. to Johnston Island (about 800 miles South West of Hawaii). The C-124 flight was from Hickham AFB Hawaii to JI ! I loved flying on these old planes back...this particular C-124 didn't need any windows in the fuselage as you could see outside thru the missing Rivets in the skin of the plane ! On the old Flying Boxcars C-119 they gave us Parachutes when we had to fly on them ! *FUN STUFF !*
My father was stationed in Gander, Newfoundland in 1941. He and the other waist gunner where bumped from the next flight to accommodate taking 2 extra officers to a base in Greenland. Their plane disappeared. My father put in for Sea Duty. My father's job on the plane was searching for German submarines in the North Atlantic as one of the 2 waist gunners.
I suggest Occam's Razor: All things considered, the simplest answer is the most likely. The aircraft suffered a catastrophic accident that overwhelmed the aircrew's ability to even send a distress call.
I don't think it works in this cade because the USAF wouldn't be so cagey about the details if it was so simple. They've admitted to far worse negligence accidents
@@ABrit-bt6ce Agreed. It is now 70 years ago, and that someone was working at the time. So 90+ years of age now. They'd be long retired. There could be no material damage to their reputation, at most only hurt feelings and embarrassment. _I think we can all agreed that the public's right to know the truth should be paramount over the reputation and feelings of people now retired._ And in particular in the cases of the continuing secrecy over Rudolf Hess and JFK. These are not state secrets to protect our countries, they are secrets to protect important families or organizations that have committed some scandal that the public would be angry about even 70 years later. _For JFK and Hess, we know with certainty there is a great scandal, we just do not know exactly what it was._ In the C-124 crash, we really do not even remotely know what it was. Anything to do with the Cold War would now be disclosed. Anything personal, to do with extra-marital affairs or smuggling, the rest of the details would be disclosed by now, even if by a general. Are the British keeping it secret? The Canadians?
I'm not disagreeing but what about careers of their children/grandchildren? Many figures ride their family reputation 90 years later. They might have a strong incentive to block disclosure and be in a position to do it.
@@sanjayrao77 Their families deserve the reputation they've earned, not a reputation based on hidding the incredible wrongs committed by past generations so horrible, so horrific, that they would matter 70 years later.
At first I was thinking this was about the plane that vanished in Canada with no trace. I was once on a plane that was leaking fuel from the wing over the Atlantic. I spotted it and informed crew. I got to think that it was fortunate that I did notice that happening.
Thanks for brining this to our attention having served on subs in the Navy I am well aware of the comapartmented classification system reading any govt. report requires a special understanding to glean any useful information from them.
Your site is one of my favorites. Your videos are well researched and informative as well as being hellaciously entertaining. Thank you for your work, sir.
The part early on about “burning cargo” is fairly telling, IMO. Occam’s Razor says the simplest explanation is the most likely one. Badly packed cargo, maybe a mechanical failure that ignited other materials - I have an uncle that earned his second “caterpillar” badge having to bail out of a B-52 over Tracy California, due to an alternator fire combined with a fuel leak.
My dad was the Crew Chief/ loadmaster on C124 # 053-0993 that crashed in Suriname. He swapped flights with someone who needed flight time. He loved flying "ol'shakey".
Two important points I take from this video. Number one, dead men don't launch flares. Number two, the military has no qualms at all about lying to the people about certain things. This was a very well done and well presented video thank you for posting it.
After looking at all the names/ranks of the passengers on the flight, that looked like an inverted rank pyramid. That team was truly on a classified mission
Similarly, South African Airways 747 named the Helderberg, crashed into the ocean near Mauritius in the early 1980's, after reporting a devastating and high intensity fire on board. Some hold that it carried rocket fuel, and that it was channeled to South Africa from Taipei to circumvent international arms embargoes. The official explanation blames it on computer batteries. Still shrouded in mystery... no survivors...
A good friend of mine was a weapon year for the Mark five nuclear bomb at that time and had delivered five such weapons to Britain at the start of the Korean War and that plane may have been bringing some of the technical personnel. The timing is just right for that. I shot a video interview with my friend about the whole incident and yes it was top-secret at the time.
How about Malaysia 370. Even with all the modern equipment available, they haven’t found it. And it took over a year to find the wreckage of Air France 447 in 2009. The USS Yorktown wasn’t found until 1998. Crossing the ocean then wasn’t a lot different than when Lindbergh did it. Even as late as the 1960s, Boeing 707s were still using cockpit sextants for transoceanic navigation. If you go to the Ronald Reagan museum, the Boeing 707 AF One has the glass dome in the cockpit ceiling for the use of a handheld sextant.
With regard to the C-124 in general, there's an excellent scene of them being loaded with personnel and equipment, including a semi fuel truck, in the film Strategic Air Command.
A U.S. Air Force plane out of Roswell New Mexico goes missing in the early 1950s. Yeah, I have an idea why the government wouldn't want to divulge any information about the fate of that plane and those aboard. I'm sure a lot of other people do too.
Thank you, THG for highighting this mysterious crash and investigation. One has to wonder what the Gov't is thinking when they do such a bad job of lying to the public.
Another great history lesson that I was not aware of. If memory serves I believe the author Clive Cussler wrote a novel based on the disappearance of this plane. I don’t recall the name of the book as I read it many years ago.
I crossed the Atlantic in a C-130 cargo plane in 1987. We stopped at Gander for fuel. We stopped multiple times going on from England to Kenya. It was a long, uncomfortable flight.
Probably the reason the mission was secret was that anything to do with strategic policy that might deal with where nukes were based, would have been hush hush at that time. As for crew worries, don't know.
I read this in The Air Force Times when I was in elementary school (in the 1950's) - my dad was stationed at Offutt AFB: pilot describing a plane crash: "When I landed, my air speed was too great and I over-shot the end of the runway. I went over the perimeter road, thru the base fence, and into a clump of trees where both wings were torn off. Then I lost control."
Spent many hours working on the " Shakey". To see the very first version, a tail dragger. Flew from McQuire AFB to Travis AFB....I always liked working on them
Thanks for the memories. This particular aircraft is one of the few I never had the pleasure to work on while in the Azores Nov68-Apr70, 1605th C.A.M.Sq., APO NY 09406 NY😊
I am of the mind that keeping something classified beyond 30 years is only to cover up misdeads or malfeasance, most likely on behalf of the CIA or FBI, but could just as easily be any other alphabet agency. They will either remain classified until long after the deaths of those involved or indefinitely.
@@FYMASMD I agree the CIA would be a understandable suspicion due to some of the things they've done to even US citizens. FBI on the other hand is a bit of a stretch, they are more the Waco types.
Never underestimate the sensitivity of the military when it comes to bad news and negative publicity. Even decades later it would be very embarrassing to have lost so many significant people and then come up with nothing much in explanation. You also have to consider the time in history and the fact that those in the military can be just as susceptible to conspiracy theories and speculation. I am sure there was fevered theories running about that the Soviets might have been behind it. As to the strange search response, it’s much more likely to be cock-up than anything else. As for all the conflicting accounts, it can be very difficult to identify their origins and efficacy. The message in a can? Very dubious, far more likely to have been an ill-considered prank than genuine.
I probably worked on most of the A & C models while stationed on Terceira Island, Lajes Field, Azores, Port. APO NY 09406 NY. What an experience! AFSC 42251, M.A. 'Mostly Anything!' Thanks for the memories!
Some of the comments and reports from observers are kind of funny and ignore the realities of those days. For instance, one comment about security at Loring AFB was particularly funny. If you've ever been on an Air Force SAC base, you'd know their Security is absolutely anal. I've lived much of my early life on SAC bases from 1950's thru the 80's as a dependent and Active duty. General Lemay was a total maniac when it came to security and even a minor breach was a demotion or the end of a career for enlisted and officers in the Air Police/Security Police (and Base Commanders). I've spent time on my belly on several occasions with a M16 pointed at me for minor paperwork issues trying to get on the flightline or service a B-52 (In the 70's and 80's). My father (a retired USAF Air Policeman) talked about having to physically take down several people during his career in SAC on flightline and base security from 1948-68 (both stateside and overseas). Additionally, if they went into the Atlantic in March their chances of survival in the frigid waters were very minimal after even a few minutes in the water. If they got on a raft and had some way to warm up a little, they might survive a few hours, but not much more. That's why dry suits, covered rafts, high calorie foods, water, and self-heating systems are installed in modern ships, oil rigs, and airplanes that frequently fly over those areas. Survival in the Atlantic is a rough and usually deadly proposition. Lastly any movement of Command (or nuclear weapons certified personnel), particularly in SAC was usually a classified event (due to security issues). My dad got on a flight one day at an overseas location (a routine flight to another overseas SAC base) and the Wing Commander and his entourage came on board. As my dad (armed Air Police) was operating as a classified courier that day, so he remained on the flight. Everyone else was sent to Base Ops and had to stay there until the plane arrived at its destination. It was part of a No Notice Command Inspection of another SAC base with his Wing Commander leading the team. He said it was first time he'd even been on the giving end of a No Notice Inspection and when they landed it was organized chaos on the receiving end of the inspection. So, SAC (and especially Lemay) is famous for last minute no notice movement of personnel (and equipment) and many times there's very little paperwork or proof it even happened. The only thing that made this one event well known was the plane crashed. I don't think there would be more than one or two pieces of paperwork (mainly the notice from SAC, a transit order, and the base ops logs) that would show it ever happened. The movement of General Cullen and his staff would have been classified and very little paperwork would have been generated (to prevent security leaks) until he was on the ground in England and setting up operations. Lemay expected his people to know their jobs and the procedures were already in place to set up operations.
I remember these flying over our house from the 164th Airlift Group of the Tennessee Air Guard base at the Memphis Airport. Loud, loud, loud...shook everything...THe December 1985 crash of an Arrow Air plane with numerous US military personnel on board is also suspicious..
There was a crash of a C-124, in Washington state, in December, 1952. The plane took off, bound for San Antonio, TX, early in the morning. It suddenly lurched to the left, and crashed. The air traffic controller, saw it happen and immediately called out fire and rescue. Yet, mechanical issues were not found for some reason. One of the surviving crew members, woke up from a coma, and yelled "Myra, I checked the power!" He slipped back into a coma.
Interesting on South Ruislip, I think these are sort of an area of "country estate" houses - this one being in nw suburban London is a little smaller than those with large land but still from an era of building. Its quite a motor drive from Lakenheath (which was one of the USAF etc bases in East Anglia). Northolt would have been closer to use so I suppose seeing the facilities at , and needed, at Lakenheath would be useful to do.
Very interesting story. Maybe the plane just lost electrical systems and crashed. Regarding the personnel list, that's a whole lotta captains and colonels in one place (other than the officers club), especially to be riding in a cargo plane.
Another thing to keep in mind was this is around the time general MacArthur was relieved of command by Truman. General MacArthur was going to drop nukes on the chinese,but was relieved of duty.The Korean War was in full swing during the loss of this aircraft.
Even if the soviets had planted a bomb and blew up/forced down the plane, it would be virtually impossible to plan for the plane to come down where a submarine would be waiting. Also, planting a bomb in a plane and figuring that there would be a good chance anyone would survive is quite a stretch at all. Bringing down a plane in the North Atlantic and expect anything short of a total loss is a very, very long shot. Likely that there may have been a nuke on the plane and it just crashed due to a mechanical failure. That is plausible and would explain the secrecy as the Air Force would not want it known that there was a loose nuke lying around. They may have picked up the nuke in Newfoundland and that would explain the shop and the obscure reference to the landing at all. IF the Soviets had heard that they had picked up a nuclear weapon anywhere it may have made the plane a target so they did not want it known. Makes sense to me.
Some likely scenarios. Yet, if Russians were behind any of it what would be the efficacy of keeping it secret? There is far too much contradicting info for this to be just another incident. I’m not a conspiracy theorist but some of this doesn’t pass the smell test.
I'd believe something like the General was trying to defect before I believe they were transporting a nuclear weapon on a passenger carrying flight. Nukes, even in 1952, warranted a "VIP" flight with no other passengers not involved in the transport of a nuclear weapon.
I'm from Amarillo and I haven't heard this story in decades. The people that I heard about this from were mostly college students and it was in the 70s. The only conclusion that any of them could reach was that the CIA did something to cover something up...not exactly helpful but at least it made for a really entertaining evening. Thanks, that is a good memory that I haven't examined in years.
Knowing how government “intelligence” agencies operate especially recently, this truly smacks of B.S. I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch, yet there is far too much redacted, hidden, and classified information regarding a missing Air Force cargo aircraft. Even one missing person is worth more than “embarrassing” knowledge about how a government might operate. I understand the need for secrecy, yet this is not about saving face any longer given the time since it occurred.
Agreed. This incident was, (and remains), a giant Air Farce Cluster Fornication and Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, for sure. However, our gubbermint has never had any respect whatsoever for either it's service personnel or the citizenry...🤬🤬🤬
The C-124 had a very checkard record. On December 20th, 1952 a C-124 crashed on takeoff from Larsen AFB in Washington State killing over 80 men. My father was scheduled to be on that flight but was reassigned at the last minute. At the time it was the worst air disaster in aviation history. Another one crashed in Japan less than a year later killing over 100 service men. The entire investigation of the Larsen crash can be found online, I can post it for anyone who may be interested. The bureaucratic blame shifting tried to pin the blame on the ground crews. That was eventually disproven as apparently the Air Force was already aware of certain design flaws regarding the gust locks which were actually to blame. My Dad didn't relay this story to me until 2003. Why that was, is still a mystery
I flew on those when I was in the Air Force in the 60's. We called it 'Old Shakey'. Miserable experience and I always kissed the ground after we landed.
In the 1958 film 'The Blob', a C-124 Globemaster was called in to air drop the otherwise-indestructible frozen alien blob in the Arctic wasteland. Just sayin'...😳
What a superbly focused analysis and query on matter. Simplyba labor of love, fairness and intellectual curiosity. The most telling was at the last. Nuke(s) on board. Broken arrow.
The continuing secrecy is the mystery. I'm old enough to remember that through the 1960s, aircraft regularly crashed on land over Canada, and locating the wreckage sometimes took until spring, sometimes never. Over water, aircraft in those days would not have had foam plastic, it would be so many metal parts sinking. The secrecy? An A-bomb? Did the general take his mistress? Something that mundane could have caused the initial secrecy. But not even a lost atomic bomb could have caused secrecy lasting more than 30 years, let alone 70+ years. That is the mystery, right, _the mystery is why the mystery has been maintained for over 70 years?_ I'm not surprised an aircraft crashed in those days, or that no survivors, bodies, or significant wreckage were found; the technology was not available at the time to locate them in less than days, and metal parts sink. Look how difficult it was to locate Air France 447 after its 2009 crash. Or still lost Malaysian Flight 370. I hope those men did not suffer lingering deaths. And I dearly wish their relatives had been given proper answers once the need for _near total_ secrecy had passed. We need more government honesty. About this, (and about Rudolf Hess and JFK). _Such very very long-term secrecy should not be tolerated by elected officials,_ no matter that someone's feelings or big wig politician's or bureaucrat's family reputation is hurt by the truth coming out.
@@jacksons1010 Oh yeah, huge mystery of Hess and lots of papers still secret about JFK. So much evidence is hidden and admitted by authorities to be hidden.
In all likelyhood one or more passengers were carrying sensative information or something relating to the nuclear program but the plane crashed due to a malfunction and the wreckage was lost. I tend not to go in for the X-files conspiracy theories and such. Most times the truth is stairing people in the face but they can't or refuse to see it.
It sounds like they know exactly where the plane ended up and sank but have some reason to hide it all. Given it's the cold war they no doubt were doing something shady like transporting something they probably weren't supposed to be due to some agreement.
The B50 was en route to escort the plane to an airfield, rather than carrying rescue equipment. Should have been a faster and more suitable response, yes - but the B50 was at the warning point for fuel level for safe return. It radioed the position of flares to weather ship Casco and over the next days several British planes searched as did the USS Coral Sea, other naval ships and submarines
You the most wonderful remembrance towards the loss of the aircrew and their families and to the Air Force Members lost as well, sir. Does Bbr mean Bombardier? Could someone please help me with this as I enjoy working out the difference between the two airforces of the UK and the USA.
I think that's a good guess. but it seems that such a crewmember would also have a rank. "BBR" is not a military rank abbreviation from a brief search. It does stand for "blank battlefield round" but that clearly doesn't apply.
Sad that we think that. We ARE the government, and pretending it’s some foreign entity beyond our control is an abdication of responsibility. Every human endeavor is imperfect, including our attempts at government. That doesn’t mean we have to mistrust.
@@jacksons1010That's just an illusion. Sure, a couple parties throw forth candidates and tell us to pick one. There are 332 million people in the US, but we get to pick between 2 of them. Then there are all the people underneath them. Just because the president and Senate appoint a new head of the CIA doesn't mean all the managers and employees underneath change. Same with every branch and department of the government. Manager Joe knows that if this thing comes out, his 30 years will be up in a flash and he'll lose his cushy pension. So it's in his best interest to classify, redact, deny FOIA requests, and do anything he can to bury the truth. The people do not control the government, the government is a subset of the people, with all the same faults as the people, but with the power to hide it from the rest of the people.
@@andrewcrowder4958 MK-Ultra. Project Sunshine. The Tuskegee experiment. Five Eyes and the NSA spying. These are just a few of the things that we know about that were kept secret at the time. What else don't we know?
I flew in a C-124 from Tinker AFB to SeaTac in late '66 on my way to Shemya. It was the loudest, most unpleasant airplane that I have ever flown in.
It was specifically designed as a cargo aircraft and a far cry from the C-54s they were intended to replace. Riding in the bowels of a C-130 is no cakewalk but again, the “C” designation says it all.
@@krautyvonlederhosen Been in a C-130 too (Ramstein to Aviano). Orders of magnitude better than the 124.
I will admit, however, that Business Class in a 777 is MUCH better than either. 😁
@@mjordan812 It’s been years since my time spent w/Sealift command in and around Diego Garcia but it was still time well spent and wouldn’t trade it for the world. It just adds up to who and what I am today. Though I ended up in Texas prison system, that doesn’t necessarily define me, though my soon to be ex wife might not agree.
@@mjordan812I flew in a couple 130’s in Afghanistan and Kuwait, my first time ever riding in one was without seats. I just sat on the floor of the cargo bay, we all had to hold on to each other so as to not roll down to the end of the aircraft on takeoff 😂
My dad was stationed at Shemya in the late 50's as an Air Force MP. His top secret clearance prevented his from telling us kids stories.
Your episodes are always interesting, but what continues to impress me most is that while the episodes often involve incidents, you always manage to close them with the names of those involved. They may be incidents, but to the families of those involved, its the memories of the names of the fallen that are of paramount importance. History isn't incidents, its people.
A mystery that will likely never be solved. Thank you, Lance.
We all know that governments love their secrets but when does it end? If a government actually works for the people there needs to be a point when such secrets are revealed. Thanks for bringing this out of the shadows, History Guy!
The government doesn't work for the "People" that ended in Heely Plaza, 1963
@@adamwhite3584i think it ended before Daley Plaza imho
Good Friday morning History Guy and everyone watching. Happy 248th birthday to the US Navy...Started my 21 year Naval career 41 years ago today
Cheers to the members of Uncle Sam's Canoe Club.
I retired 35 years ago after, like you, 21 years. Fly Navy. 🇺🇸
@@matthewellisor5835I was in the Navy 4 years and never went to sea.
Thank you Brother !
By the early 1960s the C-124 Globemasters were in Air National Guard inventories. Our elementary school went to the air guard base to see these monsters of the skies. I think the thing that impressed me on our tour of aircraft was that long ladder that went up to cockpit. That was scary to climb for a fifth grader but, I did it.
This makes me think of the crash of a Northwest Orient DC4 into Lake Michigan in 1950. Although they found some fragments of airplane and humans, the wreck has never been located. And Lake Michigan is a lot smaller than the Atlantic.
Good video. Would be nice if they found the plane wreckage, but then again it took over 70 years to find the Titanic.
I flew on a few C-124 GlobeMasters back in the 1960s. The last one I remember was when I was on a 100 day TDY from Vandenberg AFB Calif. to Johnston Island (about 800 miles South West of Hawaii). The C-124 flight was from Hickham AFB Hawaii to JI ! I loved flying on these old planes back...this particular C-124 didn't need any windows in the fuselage as you could see outside thru the missing Rivets in the skin of the plane !
On the old Flying Boxcars C-119 they gave us Parachutes when we had to fly on them ! *FUN STUFF !*
My father was stationed in Gander, Newfoundland in 1941. He and the other waist gunner where bumped from the next flight to accommodate taking 2 extra officers to a base in Greenland. Their plane disappeared. My father put in for Sea Duty. My father's job on the plane was searching for German submarines in the North Atlantic as one of the 2 waist gunners.
I suggest Occam's Razor: All things considered, the simplest answer is the most likely. The aircraft suffered a catastrophic accident that overwhelmed the aircrew's ability to even send a distress call.
Simplest answer? Aliens!
Thanks; You gave me a good chuckle! @@ClausB252
@@ClausB252 Simpler still, a mass suicide pact- I didn't say plausible, just simpler.
I don't think it works in this cade because the USAF wouldn't be so cagey about the details if it was so simple. They've admitted to far worse negligence accidents
This whole thing is bizarre. What could possibly be so sensitive 70 years later that the incident isn't declassified?
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you...
As a rule, someone high up and guilty is still alive or the consequences of publishing it are too damaging.
@@ABrit-bt6ce Agreed. It is now 70 years ago, and that someone was working at the time. So 90+ years of age now. They'd be long retired. There could be no material damage to their reputation, at most only hurt feelings and embarrassment. _I think we can all agreed that the public's right to know the truth should be paramount over the reputation and feelings of people now retired._
And in particular in the cases of the continuing secrecy over Rudolf Hess and JFK.
These are not state secrets to protect our countries, they are secrets to protect important families or organizations that have committed some scandal that the public would be angry about even 70 years later. _For JFK and Hess, we know with certainty there is a great scandal, we just do not know exactly what it was._
In the C-124 crash, we really do not even remotely know what it was. Anything to do with the Cold War would now be disclosed. Anything personal, to do with extra-marital affairs or smuggling, the rest of the details would be disclosed by now, even if by a general. Are the British keeping it secret? The Canadians?
I'm not disagreeing but what about careers of their children/grandchildren? Many figures ride their family reputation 90 years later. They might have a strong incentive to block disclosure and be in a position to do it.
@@sanjayrao77 Their families deserve the reputation they've earned, not a reputation based on hidding the incredible wrongs committed by past generations so horrible, so horrific, that they would matter 70 years later.
It is said that all wars, including "cold wars," have casualties. And, "The first casualty of war is truth."
At first I was thinking this was about the plane that vanished in Canada with no trace. I was once on a plane that was leaking fuel from the wing over the Atlantic. I spotted it and informed crew. I got to think that it was fortunate that I did notice that happening.
Thanks for brining this to our attention having served on subs in the Navy I am well aware of the comapartmented classification system reading any govt. report requires a special understanding to glean any useful information from them.
Your site is one of my favorites. Your videos are well researched and informative as well as being hellaciously entertaining. Thank you for your work, sir.
The part early on about “burning cargo” is fairly telling, IMO. Occam’s Razor says the simplest explanation is the most likely one. Badly packed cargo, maybe a mechanical failure that ignited other materials - I have an uncle that earned his second “caterpillar” badge having to bail out of a B-52 over Tracy California, due to an alternator fire combined with a fuel leak.
My dad was the Crew Chief/ loadmaster on C124 # 053-0993 that crashed in Suriname. He swapped flights with someone who needed flight time. He loved flying "ol'shakey".
This narrator is one of the best today.
Thank you for updating this aerial "who done it." Sounds great now.
Thank you for this awesome bonus video. I hope you have a great, well deserved vacation!
Two important points I take from this video.
Number one, dead men don't launch flares.
Number two, the military has no qualms at all about lying to the people about certain things.
This was a very well done and well presented video thank you for posting it.
Thank you History Guy. Your info's always good and your company is great.C-124s berthed at Greater Pittsburgh Airport, USAF National Guard.
Only THG can make payday even better! Happy Friday friends and a dear thank you to THG, always love and appreciate your videos
After looking at all the names/ranks of the passengers on the flight, that looked like an inverted rank pyramid. That team was truly on a classified mission
Similarly, South African Airways 747 named the Helderberg, crashed into the ocean near Mauritius in the early 1980's, after reporting a devastating and high intensity fire on board. Some hold that it carried rocket fuel, and that it was channeled to South Africa from Taipei to circumvent international arms embargoes. The official explanation blames it on computer batteries. Still shrouded in mystery... no survivors...
A good friend of mine was a weapon year for the Mark five nuclear bomb at that time and had delivered five such weapons to Britain at the start of the Korean War and that plane may have been bringing some of the technical personnel. The timing is just right for that. I shot a video interview with my friend about the whole incident and yes it was top-secret at the time.
Good theory, but haven't other broken arrow incident, even from the 1960s, been largely declassified since 2000?
lost bombs can stay classified up to 75 years@@Lost-In-Blank
How about Malaysia 370. Even with all the modern equipment available, they haven’t found it. And it took over a year to find the wreckage of Air France 447 in 2009. The USS Yorktown wasn’t found until 1998. Crossing the ocean then wasn’t a lot different than when Lindbergh did it. Even as late as the 1960s, Boeing 707s were still using cockpit sextants for transoceanic navigation. If you go to the Ronald Reagan museum, the Boeing 707 AF One has the glass dome in the cockpit ceiling for the use of a handheld sextant.
This is one of the best mysteries that you have ever conveyed. This could be an incredible movie!
With regard to the C-124 in general, there's an excellent scene of them being loaded with personnel and equipment, including a semi fuel truck, in the film Strategic Air Command.
A U.S. Air Force plane out of Roswell New Mexico goes missing in the early 1950s.
Yeah, I have an idea why the government wouldn't want to divulge any information about the fate of that plane and those aboard. I'm sure a lot of other people do too.
Thank you, THG for highighting this mysterious crash and investigation. One has to wonder what the Gov't is thinking when they do such a bad job of lying to the public.
Burning wreckage in high swells could look a lot like flares being fired off.
Another great history lesson that I was not aware of. If memory serves I believe the author Clive Cussler wrote a novel based on the disappearance of this plane. I don’t recall the name of the book as I read it many years ago.
Thank you History Guy
I crossed the Atlantic in a C-130 cargo plane in 1987. We stopped at Gander for fuel. We stopped multiple times going on from England to Kenya. It was a long, uncomfortable flight.
I appreciate you and thank you for making content.
Probably the reason the mission was secret was that anything to do with strategic policy that might deal with where nukes were based, would have been hush hush at that time. As for crew worries, don't know.
"A rapid engine disassembly, followed by a controlled flight into terrain which rendered the crew and passengers non-viable."
Downplayed like a true salesman
I read this in The Air Force Times when I was in elementary school (in the 1950's) - my dad was stationed at Offutt AFB: pilot describing a plane crash: "When I landed, my air speed was too great and I over-shot the end of the runway. I went over the perimeter road, thru the base fence, and into a clump of trees where both wings were torn off. Then I lost control."
@@dough9512 Ah, you found it! The Controlled Landing Into Terrain!
Spent many hours working on the " Shakey". To see the very first version, a tail dragger.
Flew from McQuire AFB to Travis AFB....I always liked working on them
Hey History Guy 🤓and Classmates, have a safe and fun weekend!
Thanks for the memories. This particular aircraft is one of the few I never had the pleasure to work on while in the Azores Nov68-Apr70, 1605th C.A.M.Sq., APO NY 09406 NY😊
I am of the mind that keeping something classified beyond 30 years is only to cover up misdeads or malfeasance, most likely on behalf of the CIA or FBI, but could just as easily be any other alphabet agency. They will either remain classified until long after the deaths of those involved or indefinitely.
Hello, welcome to how I think!!!🙏🤔
CIA maybe, but the FBI?
That’s a stretch for either.
@@FYMASMD I agree the CIA would be a understandable suspicion due to some of the things they've done to even US citizens. FBI on the other hand is a bit of a stretch, they are more the Waco types.
Cover up .. most likely .
Never underestimate the sensitivity of the military when it comes to bad news and negative publicity. Even decades later it would be very embarrassing to have lost so many significant people and then come up with nothing much in explanation. You also have to consider the time in history and the fact that those in the military can be just as susceptible to conspiracy theories and speculation. I am sure there was fevered theories running about that the Soviets might have been behind it. As to the strange search response, it’s much more likely to be cock-up than anything else. As for all the conflicting accounts, it can be very difficult to identify their origins and efficacy. The message in a can? Very dubious, far more likely to have been an ill-considered prank than genuine.
Nice that he included the names of The Lost 😢
Thank you for the lesson.
I didnt mind the audio problems before but ill let this play through to feed the algorithm.
Excellent reporting!
I do not know why, I am still subscribed but TH-cam stopped sending me any notifications about The History Guy.
I probably worked on most of the A & C models while stationed on Terceira Island, Lajes Field, Azores, Port. APO NY 09406 NY.
What an experience! AFSC 42251, M.A. 'Mostly Anything!'
Thanks for the memories!
You never know who's watching a TH-cam video?.
Interesting story.
Fantastic video 🤩🤩🤩
Great video, HG...👍
Some of the comments and reports from observers are kind of funny and ignore the realities of those days. For instance, one comment about security at Loring AFB was particularly funny. If you've ever been on an Air Force SAC base, you'd know their Security is absolutely anal. I've lived much of my early life on SAC bases from 1950's thru the 80's as a dependent and Active duty. General Lemay was a total maniac when it came to security and even a minor breach was a demotion or the end of a career for enlisted and officers in the Air Police/Security Police (and Base Commanders). I've spent time on my belly on several occasions with a M16 pointed at me for minor paperwork issues trying to get on the flightline or service a B-52 (In the 70's and 80's). My father (a retired USAF Air Policeman) talked about having to physically take down several people during his career in SAC on flightline and base security from 1948-68 (both stateside and overseas).
Additionally, if they went into the Atlantic in March their chances of survival in the frigid waters were very minimal after even a few minutes in the water. If they got on a raft and had some way to warm up a little, they might survive a few hours, but not much more. That's why dry suits, covered rafts, high calorie foods, water, and self-heating systems are installed in modern ships, oil rigs, and airplanes that frequently fly over those areas. Survival in the Atlantic is a rough and usually deadly proposition.
Lastly any movement of Command (or nuclear weapons certified personnel), particularly in SAC was usually a classified event (due to security issues). My dad got on a flight one day at an overseas location (a routine flight to another overseas SAC base) and the Wing Commander and his entourage came on board. As my dad (armed Air Police) was operating as a classified courier that day, so he remained on the flight. Everyone else was sent to Base Ops and had to stay there until the plane arrived at its destination. It was part of a No Notice Command Inspection of another SAC base with his Wing Commander leading the team. He said it was first time he'd even been on the giving end of a No Notice Inspection and when they landed it was organized chaos on the receiving end of the inspection. So, SAC (and especially Lemay) is famous for last minute no notice movement of personnel (and equipment) and many times there's very little paperwork or proof it even happened. The only thing that made this one event well known was the plane crashed. I don't think there would be more than one or two pieces of paperwork (mainly the notice from SAC, a transit order, and the base ops logs) that would show it ever happened. The movement of General Cullen and his staff would have been classified and very little paperwork would have been generated (to prevent security leaks) until he was on the ground in England and setting up operations. Lemay expected his people to know their jobs and the procedures were already in place to set up operations.
I've got a scammer replying to me. He pulled this stuff on several other sites by pretending to be the site host.
Why does everything start in Roswell?
Planes crossing towards Europe are often early due to prevailing winds/jet stream
Fascinating !
I remember these flying over our house from the 164th Airlift Group of the Tennessee Air Guard base at the Memphis Airport. Loud, loud, loud...shook everything...THe December 1985 crash of an Arrow Air plane with numerous US military personnel on board is also suspicious..
There was a crash of a C-124, in Washington state, in December, 1952. The plane took off, bound for San Antonio, TX, early in the morning. It suddenly lurched to the left, and crashed. The air traffic controller, saw it happen and immediately called out fire and rescue. Yet, mechanical issues were not found for some reason. One of the surviving crew members, woke up from a coma, and yelled "Myra, I checked the power!" He slipped back into a coma.
rules of life - never take on new work on a friday. never do anything on a week before, or containing a bank holiday.
Interesting on South Ruislip, I think these are sort of an area of "country estate" houses - this one being in nw suburban London is a little smaller than those with large land but still from an era of building. Its quite a motor drive from Lakenheath (which was one of the USAF etc bases in East Anglia). Northolt would have been closer to use so I suppose seeing the facilities at , and needed, at Lakenheath would be useful to do.
A sad situation... no matter what the truth is...
Dad flew this as a flight engeneer all over the world
My grandfather used to say these planes would vibrate so bad in flight that you could slide a piece of paper under your feet.
Very interesting story. Maybe the plane just lost electrical systems and crashed. Regarding the personnel list, that's a whole lotta captains and colonels in one place (other than the officers club), especially to be riding in a cargo plane.
My Uncle was Colonel Kenneth Gray, CFO SAC, on that flight. Yeah, my Aunt worked in government and still never got answers.
It could have been hauling some of the UFO wreckage from Roswell.
Another thing to keep in mind was this is around the time general MacArthur was relieved of command by Truman. General MacArthur was going to drop nukes on the chinese,but was relieved of duty.The Korean War was in full swing during the loss of this aircraft.
Even if the soviets had planted a bomb and blew up/forced down the plane, it would be virtually impossible to plan for the plane to come down where a submarine would be waiting. Also, planting a bomb in a plane and figuring that there would be a good chance anyone would survive is quite a stretch at all. Bringing down a plane in the North Atlantic and expect anything short of a total loss is a very, very long shot. Likely that there may have been a nuke on the plane and it just crashed due to a mechanical failure. That is plausible and would explain the secrecy as the Air Force would not want it known that there was a loose nuke lying around. They may have picked up the nuke in Newfoundland and that would explain the shop and the obscure reference to the landing at all. IF the Soviets had heard that they had picked up a nuclear weapon anywhere it may have made the plane a target so they did not want it known. Makes sense to me.
Some likely scenarios. Yet, if Russians were behind any of it what would be the efficacy of keeping it secret? There is far too much contradicting info for this to be just another incident. I’m not a conspiracy theorist but some of this doesn’t pass the smell test.
New~Clear
I'd believe something like the General was trying to defect before I believe they were transporting a nuclear weapon on a passenger carrying flight. Nukes, even in 1952, warranted a "VIP" flight with no other passengers not involved in the transport of a nuclear weapon.
The C-124 looks like it would have been a handful in a stiff crosswind.
Just because you think there's a conspiracy doesn't mean there is not
I'm from Amarillo and I haven't heard this story in decades.
The people that I heard about this from were mostly college students and it was in the 70s. The only conclusion that any of them could reach was that the CIA did something to cover something up...not exactly helpful but at least it made for a really entertaining evening.
Thanks, that is a good memory that I haven't examined in years.
A lot of times people look at the negative side of what they feel they can't do. I always look on the positive side of what I can do.
& yet this story smells of... do~do
Knowing how government “intelligence” agencies operate especially recently, this truly smacks of B.S. I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch, yet there is far too much redacted, hidden, and classified information regarding a missing Air Force cargo aircraft. Even one missing person is worth more than “embarrassing” knowledge about how a government might operate. I understand the need for secrecy, yet this is not about saving face any longer given the time since it occurred.
Agreed. This incident was, (and remains), a giant Air Farce Cluster Fornication and Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, for sure. However, our gubbermint has never had any respect whatsoever for either it's service personnel or the citizenry...🤬🤬🤬
Exactly 70 years later secrets don’t matter.
The C-124 had a very checkard record. On December 20th, 1952 a C-124 crashed on takeoff from Larsen AFB in Washington State killing over 80 men. My father was scheduled to be on that flight but was reassigned at the last minute. At the time it was the worst air disaster in aviation history. Another one crashed in Japan less than a year later killing over 100 service men. The entire investigation of the Larsen crash can be found online, I can post it for anyone who may be interested. The bureaucratic blame shifting tried to pin the blame on the ground crews. That was eventually disproven as apparently the Air Force was already aware of certain design flaws regarding the gust locks which were actually to blame. My Dad didn't relay this story to me until 2003. Why that was, is still a mystery
I flew on those when I was in the Air Force in the 60's. We called it 'Old Shakey'. Miserable experience and I always kissed the ground after we landed.
They picked up the saucer-man from The Thing. Seriously... the ocean is a big, big, place. We'll never know.
In the 1958 film 'The Blob', a C-124 Globemaster was called in to air drop the otherwise-indestructible frozen alien blob in the Arctic wasteland. Just sayin'...😳
@@charlestaylor253 cool... somebody else who's a 50s 60s scifi nut!!
THG is the best.
Back in the Saddle Again Naturally!
they used to fly these out of my base after they got rid of the P-51's. one is preserved at Hill AFB museum. now we fly KC135's
During my 20 year AF career I worked on C-124s for three years. Would not want to fly on one.
I appreciate the listing of the names.
Dont ask questions.
thanks
What a superbly focused analysis and query on matter. Simplyba labor of love, fairness and intellectual curiosity. The most telling was at the last. Nuke(s) on board. Broken arrow.
You know, often when I tell stories from the past, I start by saying, you know we live in a dirty world.
My “old tales” usually start “Now this is no shit.”
So your stories tend to be autobiographical?
@@notahotshot pretty much, either personal involvement or as witness. Primarily 1992 to 2012 roughly speaking.
,,, saw one in Lackland or Sheppard AFB, in Texas, '65 . Calling it ungainly would be an optimistic compliment .
"The plane took off from Roswell, NM". Queue the alien conspiracies...
There was a lot of rank in that list.
I mean it was the early 50s and it left Roswell New Mexico so I think we all know what was in the plane
I'm in a~green~men~t.🤢
Isn't it amazing that every time a search mission is conducted, it's reported to be the most extensive search in history? Oh, really!
Great observation...should make for a..."best seller" novel
Ok I get it now, re-post. For a minute I thought I was time-slipping again… again. You really need to stop re-posting before I’ve had my coffee.
The continuing secrecy is the mystery. I'm old enough to remember that through the 1960s, aircraft regularly crashed on land over Canada, and locating the wreckage sometimes took until spring, sometimes never. Over water, aircraft in those days would not have had foam plastic, it would be so many metal parts sinking. The secrecy? An A-bomb? Did the general take his mistress? Something that mundane could have caused the initial secrecy. But not even a lost atomic bomb could have caused secrecy lasting more than 30 years, let alone 70+ years. That is the mystery, right, _the mystery is why the mystery has been maintained for over 70 years?_
I'm not surprised an aircraft crashed in those days, or that no survivors, bodies, or significant wreckage were found; the technology was not available at the time to locate them in less than days, and metal parts sink. Look how difficult it was to locate Air France 447 after its 2009 crash. Or still lost Malaysian Flight 370.
I hope those men did not suffer lingering deaths. And I dearly wish their relatives had been given proper answers once the need for _near total_ secrecy had passed.
We need more government honesty. About this, (and about Rudolf Hess and JFK). _Such very very long-term secrecy should not be tolerated by elected officials,_ no matter that someone's feelings or big wig politician's or bureaucrat's family reputation is hurt by the truth coming out.
Not much mystery about JFK or Rudolf Hess. Personal incredulity over the evidence doesn’t change the facts.
@@jacksons1010 Oh yeah, huge mystery of Hess and lots of papers still secret about JFK. So much evidence is hidden and admitted by authorities to be hidden.
In all likelyhood one or more passengers were carrying sensative information or something relating to the nuclear program but the plane crashed due to a malfunction and the wreckage was lost. I tend not to go in for the X-files conspiracy theories and such. Most times the truth is stairing people in the face but they can't or refuse to see it.
Planely they were winging it
It sounds like they know exactly where the plane ended up and sank but have some reason to hide it all. Given it's the cold war they no doubt were doing something shady like transporting something they probably weren't supposed to be due to some agreement.
I enjoy the aviation content.
The B50 was en route to escort the plane to an airfield, rather than carrying rescue equipment. Should have been a faster and more suitable response, yes - but the B50 was at the warning point for fuel level for safe return. It radioed the position of flares to weather ship Casco and over the next days several British planes searched as did the USS Coral Sea, other naval ships and submarines
You the most wonderful remembrance towards the loss of the aircrew and their families and to the Air Force Members lost as well, sir.
Does Bbr mean Bombardier?
Could someone please help me with this as I enjoy working out the difference between the two airforces of the UK and the USA.
I think that's a good guess. but it seems that such a crewmember would also have a rank. "BBR" is not a military rank abbreviation from a brief search. It does stand for "blank battlefield round" but that clearly doesn't apply.
This is an interesting story & it reminds me of Malaysia Airlines flight 370
What you are is what you have been. What you will be is what you do now.
It took off from Roswell?
There's your first clue! 👽🛸
(lol)
Sad that we...
Even today...cant trust or believe our own government
Sad that we think that. We ARE the government, and pretending it’s some foreign entity beyond our control is an abdication of responsibility. Every human endeavor is imperfect, including our attempts at government. That doesn’t mean we have to mistrust.
@@jacksons1010That's just an illusion. Sure, a couple parties throw forth candidates and tell us to pick one. There are 332 million people in the US, but we get to pick between 2 of them. Then there are all the people underneath them. Just because the president and Senate appoint a new head of the CIA doesn't mean all the managers and employees underneath change. Same with every branch and department of the government. Manager Joe knows that if this thing comes out, his 30 years will be up in a flash and he'll lose his cushy pension. So it's in his best interest to classify, redact, deny FOIA requests, and do anything he can to bury the truth. The people do not control the government, the government is a subset of the people, with all the same faults as the people, but with the power to hide it from the rest of the people.
Evidence? Argument?
Conspiracy thinking is lazy, sleazy thinking.
@@andrewcrowder4958 spoken like a true communist..
@@andrewcrowder4958 MK-Ultra. Project Sunshine. The Tuskegee experiment. Five Eyes and the NSA spying. These are just a few of the things that we know about that were kept secret at the time. What else don't we know?
A C-124 dropped out of the sky on final approach 2 miles south of runway 36 at R.G.A.F.B (Dicky Goober) back in the early 1960s.