It is said that an "expert" is one who has made all the mistakes there are to make in a particular field of endeavor. Lyle is well on his way to being an expert! We salute you for your fearlessness.
Long term watcher, not so much in comments. I've usually little to add to your impeccable content. I do, however, need to extend my thanks for this absolutely brilliant deep dive into this guitar. There is nothing anywhere that pulls all this together so comprehensively and so well. As I am likely to be acquiring one of these guitars imminently (very probably along with an AC15C1) the information from this series is priceless. Thank you again, Lyle.
Sister Rosetta Tharpe ----- a very important, underappreciated rock and roll pregenitor---- had a white SG with vibrola tailpiece, though I don't know if she used the vibrato much. Frank Zappa, a favorite of mine, played a hardtail SG.
I was surprised you didn't mention Frank Marino. He exclusively uses 60s era SGs, and utilizes the vibrola to the extreme; and did it well before Van Halen.
And the fact he was doing that stuff he did with a non locking lyer versus a Floyd rose trem & locking nut on the neck where others could only do those tricks with either a Kahler or Floyd rose says something about what he knows on setting those old style trem's up to work as good as he got them to work . Frank also said he used to use banjo strings to make custom string gauges because back then you didn't have the lighter gauge electric guitar string pacs that could be bought in different light gauge strings so in order to get some of the gauges he wanted he had to either buy multiple different string sets and create his own or he would use banjo strings as well he said and by using these super light gauge strings probably helped I would think on being able to keep that lyer tremolo to stay in tune because of less string drag on the rear bridge intonation supports so they would slide easier . He must have a secret of what he does to make his SGs stay in tune because I haven't seen another SG player come close to the stuff he was doing at the time come even close and still being able to keep the thing in tune like he does . He had mentioned that he changed some stuff the way he wanted on his SGs like the one where he took the humbucker's out and had the body milled out and opened up by the front pickup hole so he could then put 3 single coil pickups in and in doing so this mod not only made the guitar resonate more but he said that there wasn't much meat or material left in that area where the neck is glued to the body left which makes it even more prone to breaking the neck joint plus he also has the neck profile shaved down to where he likes it . Gibson had contacted him about possibly making a Frank Mariano SG guitar to sell and came to his house to inspect and take measurements of his guitars and took those back to Gibson USA to the custom shop to try and develop one but he said that it never fruitioned probably because of the extensive modifications he did with the neck and body's on them or they just didn't think he was well known enough to do it being he wasn't around that long before he decided to leave the music industry being burned by it and other ways by old managers but he mentioned they shipped him one of the prototypes and he said it was nothing close to what he had done by the way it felt sounded or played compared to his he developed . Supposedly he and Angus Young from AC /DC where the very first to use the prototype wireless guitar systems back in the day and if you look around you can see some pictures of him using this taped to his guitar and that is also the SG he had done these body neck & pickup mods on . He has a website Mahogany Rush.com and there's a bunch of different pages with some tech stuff where you can ask him questions and he does respond to most questions asked of him on the site and I thought at one time he actually had his home phone number on it so a person could even call him on stuff although he's in Canada but he also builds his own amplifiers and effects pedals he said and does some amplifier and effects repair for some of the local guitar players and musicians that bring stuff to him and this is another thing that sets him apart from a lot of other guitar players who get endorsed by amplifier companies or effects and they don't know a damn thing about how they work or why this does this or that if you change or do modifications like Lyle here does and this is one of the reasons why I subscribed and watch his videos . I got to see Frank back in the early 80s before his brother Vince left so it was the original lineup still and the concert consisted of Angel city Humble pie Missouri and Frank Mariano as the headliner and the guy was amazing and I remember we had 3 Humble pie fans in front of us that night and when Frank broke into Electrical Reflections of war doing his guitar solo they were standing there jaw dropped at what he was doing lol .
Frank Marino used 08-09-12-15-26-38 gague strings. The light gague and unwound 4th string (A) probably helped him very much. He may have also been wrapping the strings at the tuning post in the "Gibson Mandolin String Post Wrapping Method". This works tremendously. Take my word. He may have had other tricks at the bridge for tuning stability. So, whatever else he did worked because he dive bombed the hell out of his SG"s and it stayed in tune.
@@MrJohnnyDistortion I was aware he used a plain fourth string, but the gauge wasn't known to me until now. The first, and second strings are similar to the Richie Blackmore's set by Picato. The only difference being his begins with .009"
I bought a Gibson V that had had an Allparts short Maestro-style vibrola fitted (part of some mods the previous owner had done to make it an Andy Powell/Wishbone Ash tribute guitar). I used PTFE tape on the bridge posts to stop them from moving and I superglued the two interlocking pieces of the vibrato bar together so that they couldn't more relative to one another. Stays in tune really well now.
Are you me ? We went on the same journey, tried exactly the same things minus the Teflon, and ended up settling on almost the same setup. I also have the faber inserts and domed wheels, but I bought the full kit from crazyparts with the rounded bottom ABR1. I’m French, so Germany is next door and there’s no custom duties within the EU so it was affordable. I’m very happy with it, it stays in tune even with heavy trem bar use and I like the tone better than with the faber. I got graphtech tusq saddles on the way to try on it purely for aesthetics reasons, it looks like the old nylon from 63 - 64 :)
I’m with you! I HATE the 10mm holes. It’s the main reason I haven’t bought a new Les Paul or SG. I want the 6mm bushings back. I absolutely hate the look of a the tightening nut they use on everything now. A historic Gibson headstock looks so classy with the smaller bushings.
I love SGs, my favorite guitars to play. So comfortable to play. I don’t have one with a Vibrola yet, but I do want one, just because I like the way it looks and sounds. I probably won’t use the Vibrola, but this is great to know.
The roller bridge may not look as pretty but it sure helps with tuning stability, much better than the nylon saddles do...plus the roller bridge doesn't mute the sustain like the nylon saddles do.
Hello, I bought this guitar 2 weeks ago and I want to make the modifications, could you put the links where you bought the parts, I live in Germany so it would be easier to buy them, I would be very grateful.
Thanks so much for this deep dive! About to proceed with purchasing the following according to your recommendation in the video: 1. Faber Insert; 2. Faber ABR1 Bridge w/ Nylon Saddles; 3. Domed Thumbwheels; 4. Kluson Revolution Locking Tuners... any changes to this setup or learnings since publishing this video? Thanks again for your time!🙌
Lots of good pointers/advice contained here for other types of trem and non-trem guitars as well.. Always admire your commitment to the pursuit of excellence (some might say to the point of obsession but I would have to disagree).. Can certainly get a bit pricey in the attainment though!
Ordinary 3-in1 oil (which you mentioned early on) polymerizes and forms a protective skin or gummy film against corrosion, and therefore might tend to gum up the moving points of the vibrato system. A synthetic oil might be a more appropriate choice (later on you mention using Tri-flow and Nut Sauce).
I use a product called Lubit-8. I originally bought it to lubricate clutch/throttle cables on my bike and was the only thing I had laying around when I started getting back into electric guitars. Works quite well. I believe it has Teflon in it. Comes in a tube/needle type applicator.
Really appreciate the video would be eternally grateful if you posted links to everything you settled on. After watching the entire vid I'm honestly a little confused and kind of feel like I'm back where I started.
I have found that those Maestros certainly don't allow you to really jam down on the arm. They were made just to provide that "shimmer" you spoke of. As you noted, if you want to do dive bombs, etc. - get a FR or similar.
Great video. When I swing my bar around front like you do... it way too low to the body. Yours seems to be twice as high.Is there any way to adjust that? thanks!
Do you have to connect the ground wire to the Tremolo ??? Also the nylon saddles bridge does it come with the grooves for the strings or do you have to put the grooves in yourself and does it affect the sustain…. whereas some people use brass ??? Right now I’m using a roller bridge with a Bigsby B7 vibrato.
I have a standard sg stays in tune pretty well but if I get lazy posture and kind of lean on it you can hear it get a little wonky tuning , guessing its how the neck is designed. its good enough for me, I would have never noticed if my friend hadn't mentioned it but now its all I think about when I play lol
Sam Deeks makes a nut using the Graphtech replacement part for the top portion of the unobtanium Gibson adjustable nut, he has a machinist make the bottom portion out of Tusq blanks. I believe he used to sell them on Amazon. But if you've got a friend with a mill (or a friend of a friend) I don't think Sam has a claim on it. A brass bottom portion might work just as well. I wonder if the wound strings have trouble in the Graphtech saddles
There’s smaller conversion bushings that look like the historic Kluson bushings. I have them in my ES-335. I owned a Vibrola 61 SG. Let’s just say that I’m pulling my hair out for you. I went down the same journey and ended up selling it. I bought another Custom Shop Strat(with some more money, obviously).
The smaller conversion bushings don't cover the imprint of the larger original bushing. I tried. But I have this one staying in tune now. Which was more of an accomplishment than I anticipated.
I put new tuners on my new SG. I had to buy conversion bushings in make the old klusons fit. They look like what would have come on an original 60s SG.
We dont go to the moon because its easy, we go because its hard. Sounding great . My question is if you bend strings without the bar , does it still stay in tune. Because it sounds great
My experience with the kluson revolutions was bad. The gears were sloppy and they were a little gaudy. The gotoh magnums are super tight and look sharp. I didn't have very much tuning instability problems but after the goto's I have zero. But now that I'm planning on putting in Maestro brola on, I'm paying close attention to what others are doing.
Yes, Gotoh stuff is good. I put some vintage style Gotohs on an old Epi G400 because one tuner had been changed and looked completely different. The Gotohs are way better than tuners on a Les Paul that I have. Also, this old 90s Korean Samick Epiphone is now better than many Gibson SGs I have tried. I put Classic 57 pickups in and changed the bridge.
I bought a sg standard ,days before California closed due to covitz. All together, l have had seven due.to theft.l can say I never had a tuning problem as long as I put Schaller or anything of quality.I did almost lose it when I had to buy one on the road and l had to use kluson machine heads.I have seen others play with them,no problem. I think they get loose after about 6 to 8 months of use depending on how often you changed strings.Then once they loosen up there is no way to tighten the machine head which will cause you to seek mental help it's cheaper to get quality machine heads.
@@CatharticGuitar Indeed, you have guitars that stay in tune that are more expensive, but also that are much much cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I have a SG with Vibrola, I just love the body shape and slim taper neck, so far I was not able to solve the tuning problems however.
Just got a 2020 '61 Reissue. Those Gibson bridges are complete trash. I feel like if I sneeze toward the Vibrola it goes out of tune (didn't do any dive bombs, just lightly push it). The necks on these are amazing! Worth looking into troubleshooting. Thanks for this video, very helpful :) Gonna give this a try
Why I'll never buy another Gibson guitar. Mine is sorted. At great cost in money and more importantly my time. Time I could have spent on a bazillion other things I want to do.
You can buy Graph Tech saddles to fit these bridges. I bought them for a Heritage guitar. Mainly because Heritage screwed up cutting notches in the saddles and the Graph Techs were the only decent saddles I could get that fitted without buying a new Tone Pro bridge. It had nothing to do with having a vibrato system but the Graph Tech saddles are great.
I have a new solution. You fit the Faber conversion posts, get the Faber locking bridge. Then it's all locked down but you can also get roller saddles that fit the Faber bridge. Almost all guitar that have Bigsbys or things like that Maestro are a joke. They don't have parts that allow it to work right.
always tune up to pitch and do you tug on strings a few times before your final tune? I can't believe how many people don't know this. I'm really interested in this guitar but not if I can't use the vibrola and I mean respectively not bomb diving I got my original floyd's to do that, but if I can't keep the vibrola in tune then I might as well go for the hardtail and save $650 here in canada.
Which Faber bridge was that again? I lost track! I have a 2021 AAA top Standard that I've been mulling over installing the faber inserts on. Did you notice any difference in tone?
The LP has the locking. The SG has the non-locking. I think both guitars were improved by the new studs. The bridges don't have that stupid wire that likes to buzz and on the LP it's nice that the bridge doesn't want to fall off and the thumb wheels don't want to move when changing strings.
Faber has been great in all my Gibsons that have a Nashville or modern type ABR 1 bridge. Those conversion studs really transfer vibrations and are solid. Coupling this with their bridge and the guitaar comes alive. About a week ago, I acquired a new 2020 ES-335. I did the standard tuner keys and bridge & post swap to faber hardware. To my surprise, inside each post hole, I found a wire insulating sleeve as to keep the Gibson post secure. This is proof that they know what they are doing is flawed and they're just putting a band aid for a fix. That being said, after the Faber mods, the guitar sings.
I'm kinda of glad I just ordered the budget IYV SG with vibrola, off Amazon for $206:the budget guitars uses a much more stable bridge system with a huge metric body stud,the thumb screw post is much thicker and has a stot for a screw driver to adjust it over the top of the bridge, ,bridge sits very solid and the post and bridge don't move,strings should slide easy over a roller without moving any of the bridge or studs,these guitars are not supposed to operate like a Mustang where the bridge is supposed to move when using the bar,that's why I don't care for Gibsons thumb wheel design for this guitar,it's really better on a les paul with stop tailpiece,i understand what you were trying to do with the nylon saddles though,tendency to stick when using the trem.
Ask a real luthier. I certainly messed things up with things like those and feeler gauges before getting some (used) nut files. But maybe I was just uniquely bad with the cheap tools.
@@PsionicAudio Thanks for the useful video.You reminded me of being 20 years old again. :) Experimenting with infinite options .It's one thing reading about a manufacturers claims of greatness of their product but we don't really know till we try various options. Might try the Faber on my Gretsch 6120.
Man i do not like these trems at all ! But i do see how people are able to solve a lot of the issues with this from what you show in this video. Thanks :-) Id always wondered how some of these guys still had a guitar in tune when they were done. haha
You went through a great deal of expense, trial and error which was interesting to see, but I think that you used a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I have the exact same guitar (2019) and I can go down 3 semitones and up 2 semitones and it stays in tune. The original nut is properly cut, the original saddles had any rough edges filed and I use 8 to 38 strings. This means that the thinner strings move freely through the saddles and nut slots. I also occasionally lube the saddles and nut slots slightly. My bridge hardly moves as it is set low to minimise rocking. All in all it just made common sense thinking about the physics involved. This will apply to any model Gibson as long as you don't use really thick strings.
You don't necessarily need a whammy bar to play cool techniques on guitar unless you want to be like Eddie Van Halen or dimebag or Steve Vai but it's really your choice
I would have just gone with a roller bridge like the Guyker ones. I’ve been using them with Bigsby systems and hard tails. You get more room for intonation and you can get ABR-1, TOM and Nashville styles. And you don’t have to worry about the rollers wearing out. They may not look vintage but the idea of putting a wound string on traditional Gibson style saddles never made since to me. A saddle that digs into the string. What the hell?
If you don't like how the vibrola doesn't stay in tune and you don't want to do mods you could install a stop bar tail piece or you could install a Stratocaster tremolo bridge and add a locking nut or just install the locking nut and keep the vibrola on the guitar there's a variety of options
Just my opinion of course ... But it is a shame that Gibson opted for this faulty bridge design in the first place. I worked in my brother's Tallahassee music store back in the early '70s and saw Gibsons come in both new and used, that had the solid mounting bolt that ALSO had two thumb wheels on each one. The lowest thumb wheel would be screwed right down to the guitar's top, the upper would, of course, hold up the Tuna-matic (no one had ever heard the term, "ABR-1" back then). That provided a strong, stable bridge stand so that the strings would move through the saddles rather than have the entire bridge wiggle, especially in two different places. Many tuning problems and trem action problems stem from (as more people are beginning to realize) an improperly cut, non-lubed nut. And SG's have an inherent tuning problem in that long neck, as left-hand pull exerts backward pressure on it, especially with light gauge strings. Also, some SG Standards have the shorter neck tenon, which adds to that problem. I agree on both the look and the sound that a VIbrola adds. And that George and Eric used these. I am blessed to have a custom shop 1964 Re-issue VOS and it is a tough monster to put back into the case. Play what you want, brother. Just play!
When I want a little vibrato from my SG, I just shake and bend the neck a bit! Seriously...the long necks on them are so inherently flexible that it takes a light touch to avoid inadvertently bending the neck while playing. I absolutely love my SG Classic with P-90s, but it took awhile to learn how to play it properly.
I love the looks and sound of this guitar but honestly, Gibson (IMHO) has never gotten the trem systems right on any of the guitars that they have ever made and that includes (i don't mean to be rude) that ugly and bulky Floyd Rose trem system. If it were me, I would buy a cheap knock off SG from Garden Guitars ($179.00 to $229.00) and route the body for a fender trem, which in my opinon is one of the best and most touch sensitive. Leo knew what he was doing. RIP Leo. Peace
If you need to rework a guitar for a guitar to work , then the guitar is not the right guitar for you !! My late father, in the early 70s bought me a Les Paul Custom and a Fender Strat !! I was completely bored watching him try guitars out thinking he's shopping for himself !! One sale Rep told me " your father is the real deal " !! He gave me those Guitars in firmly telling me " please don't change anything on these guitars " !! 50 years later in just changing strings and a intonation from time to time !! Mostly, I use the guitars as conversation pieces !! Nevertheless, just buy and play a few guitars that are designed right , and you'll be a better player because you'll want to play more and more !!
It is impossible to find a Gibson Maestro Lyre vibrato for sale or a Gibson bridge that equips the Gibson Les Paul Custom. I would like to know why they are only available second-hand at prices that are too high. Why can't we buy these accessories new?
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It is said that an "expert" is one who has made all the mistakes there are to make in a particular field of endeavor. Lyle is well on his way to being an expert! We salute you for your fearlessness.
Long term watcher, not so much in comments. I've usually little to add to your impeccable content. I do, however, need to extend my thanks for this absolutely brilliant deep dive into this guitar. There is nothing anywhere that pulls all this together so comprehensively and so well. As I am likely to be acquiring one of these guitars imminently (very probably along with an AC15C1) the information from this series is priceless.
Thank you again, Lyle.
Sister Rosetta Tharpe ----- a very important, underappreciated rock and roll pregenitor---- had a white SG with vibrola tailpiece, though I don't know if she used the vibrato much. Frank Zappa, a favorite of mine, played a hardtail SG.
I was surprised you didn't mention Frank Marino. He exclusively uses 60s era SGs, and utilizes the vibrola to the extreme; and did it well before Van Halen.
And the fact he was doing that stuff he did with a non locking lyer versus a Floyd rose trem & locking nut on the neck where others could only do those tricks with either a Kahler or Floyd rose says something about what he knows on setting those old style trem's up to work as good as he got them to work . Frank also said he used to use banjo strings to make custom string gauges because back then you didn't have the lighter gauge electric guitar string pacs that could be bought in different light gauge strings so in order to get some of the gauges he wanted he had to either buy multiple different string sets and create his own or he would use banjo strings as well he said and by using these super light gauge strings probably helped I would think on being able to keep that lyer tremolo to stay in tune because of less string drag on the rear bridge intonation supports so they would slide easier . He must have a secret of what he does to make his SGs stay in tune because I haven't seen another SG player come close to the stuff he was doing at the time come even close and still being able to keep the thing in tune like he does . He had mentioned that he changed some stuff the way he wanted on his SGs like the one where he took the humbucker's out and had the body milled out and opened up by the front pickup hole so he could then put 3 single coil pickups in and in doing so this mod not only made the guitar resonate more but he said that there wasn't much meat or material left in that area where the neck is glued to the body left which makes it even more prone to breaking the neck joint plus he also has the neck profile shaved down to where he likes it . Gibson had contacted him about possibly making a Frank Mariano SG guitar to sell and came to his house to inspect and take measurements of his guitars and took those back to Gibson USA to the custom shop to try and develop one but he said that it never fruitioned probably because of the extensive modifications he did with the neck and body's on them or they just didn't think he was well known enough to do it being he wasn't around that long before he decided to leave the music industry being burned by it and other ways by old managers but he mentioned they shipped him one of the prototypes and he said it was nothing close to what he had done by the way it felt sounded or played compared to his he developed . Supposedly he and Angus Young from AC /DC where the very first to use the prototype wireless guitar systems back in the day and if you look around you can see some pictures of him using this taped to his guitar and that is also the SG he had done these body neck & pickup mods on . He has a website Mahogany Rush.com and there's a bunch of different pages with some tech stuff where you can ask him questions and he does respond to most questions asked of him on the site and I thought at one time he actually had his home phone number on it so a person could even call him on stuff although he's in Canada but he also builds his own amplifiers and effects pedals he said and does some amplifier and effects repair for some of the local guitar players and musicians that bring stuff to him and this is another thing that sets him apart from a lot of other guitar players who get endorsed by amplifier companies or effects and they don't know a damn thing about how they work or why this does this or that if you change or do modifications like Lyle here does and this is one of the reasons why I subscribed and watch his videos . I got to see Frank back in the early 80s before his brother Vince left so it was the original lineup still and the concert consisted of Angel city Humble pie Missouri and Frank Mariano as the headliner and the guy was amazing and I remember we had 3 Humble pie fans in front of us that night and when Frank broke into Electrical Reflections of war doing his guitar solo they were standing there jaw dropped at what he was doing lol .
Good catch
Frank Marino used 08-09-12-15-26-38 gague strings.
The light gague and unwound 4th string (A) probably helped him very much.
He may have also been wrapping the strings at the tuning post in the "Gibson Mandolin String Post Wrapping Method". This works tremendously. Take my word. He may have had other tricks at the bridge for tuning stability.
So, whatever else he did worked because he dive bombed the hell out of his SG"s and it stayed in tune.
@@MrJohnnyDistortion I was aware he used a plain fourth string, but the gauge wasn't known to me until now. The first, and second strings are similar to the Richie Blackmore's set by Picato. The only difference being his begins with .009"
I bought a Gibson V that had had an Allparts short Maestro-style vibrola fitted (part of some mods the previous owner had done to make it an Andy Powell/Wishbone Ash tribute guitar). I used PTFE tape on the bridge posts to stop them from moving and I superglued the two interlocking pieces of the vibrato bar together so that they couldn't more relative to one another. Stays in tune really well now.
Are you me ? We went on the same journey, tried exactly the same things minus the Teflon, and ended up settling on almost the same setup. I also have the faber inserts and domed wheels, but I bought the full kit from crazyparts with the rounded bottom ABR1. I’m French, so Germany is next door and there’s no custom duties within the EU so it was affordable. I’m very happy with it, it stays in tune even with heavy trem bar use and I like the tone better than with the faber. I got graphtech tusq saddles on the way to try on it purely for aesthetics reasons, it looks like the old nylon from 63 - 64 :)
I’m with you! I HATE the 10mm holes. It’s the main reason I haven’t bought a new Les Paul or SG. I want the 6mm bushings back. I absolutely hate the look of a the tightening nut they use on everything now. A historic Gibson headstock looks so classy with the smaller bushings.
I love SGs, my favorite guitars to play. So comfortable to play. I don’t have one with a Vibrola yet, but I do want one, just because I like the way it looks and sounds. I probably won’t use the Vibrola, but this is great to know.
Very nice sound!
I don’t see any links for the hardware you purchased. I’m having a tough time finding the right parts that you described
Just bought one of these, love the guitar but amazing Gibson have all these issues still, thanks
It’s a reissue of a 61. Quirks and all. If it didn’t then it wouldn’t be a 61 reissue and probably a lot less marketable.
Kudos! Had a late 60’s with the lyre. Could not keep it in tune back in the mid 80’s. Now on my long list of ones I let go…..
The roller bridge may not look as pretty but it sure helps with tuning stability, much better than the nylon saddles do...plus the roller bridge doesn't mute the sustain like the nylon saddles do.
sounds good.
Big Bends Nut Sauce made all my problems go away. I use it on the nut and bridge saddles on all my SG's.
Hello, I bought this guitar 2 weeks ago and I want to make the modifications, could you put the links where you bought the parts, I live in Germany so it would be easier to buy them, I would be very grateful.
Thanks so much for this deep dive!
About to proceed with purchasing the following according to your recommendation in the video: 1. Faber Insert; 2. Faber ABR1 Bridge w/ Nylon Saddles; 3. Domed Thumbwheels; 4. Kluson Revolution Locking Tuners... any changes to this setup or learnings since publishing this video?
Thanks again for your time!🙌
No, I’m really happy with all of it aside from the look of the Kluson Revolutions. But they’re functionally great.
Lots of good pointers/advice contained here for other types of trem and non-trem guitars as well.. Always admire your commitment to the pursuit of excellence (some might say to the point of obsession but I would have to disagree).. Can certainly get a bit pricey in the attainment though!
Ordinary 3-in1 oil (which you mentioned early on) polymerizes and forms a protective skin or gummy film against corrosion, and therefore might tend to gum up the moving points of the vibrato system. A synthetic oil might be a more appropriate choice (later on you mention using Tri-flow and Nut Sauce).
I use a product called Lubit-8. I originally bought it to lubricate clutch/throttle cables on my bike and was the only thing I had laying around when I started getting back into electric guitars. Works quite well. I believe it has Teflon in it. Comes in a tube/needle type applicator.
Really appreciate the video would be eternally grateful if you posted links to everything you settled on. After watching the entire vid I'm honestly a little confused and kind of feel like I'm back where I started.
I have found that those Maestros certainly don't allow you to really jam down on the arm. They were made just to provide that "shimmer" you spoke of. As you noted, if you want to do dive bombs, etc. - get a FR or similar.
Exactly
Great video. When I swing my bar around front like you do... it way too low to the body. Yours seems to be twice as high.Is there any way to adjust that? thanks!
Do you have to connect the ground wire to the Tremolo ???
Also the nylon saddles bridge does it come with the grooves for the strings or do you have to put the grooves in yourself and does it affect the sustain…. whereas some people use brass ???
Right now I’m using a roller bridge with a Bigsby B7 vibrato.
Considering the tuners wrap down the strings (a lot) , never wrap back over. Works like a charm.
I have a standard sg stays in tune pretty well but if I get lazy posture and kind of lean on it you can hear it get a little wonky tuning , guessing its how the neck is designed. its good enough for me, I would have never noticed if my friend hadn't mentioned it but now its all I think about when I play lol
Yeah, they are kind of fragile flowers. You can use that for other vibrato effects. Just be gentle - that neck will break if you treat it like a Tele.
Sam Deeks makes a nut using the Graphtech replacement part for the top portion of the unobtanium Gibson adjustable nut, he has a machinist make the bottom portion out of Tusq blanks.
I believe he used to sell them on Amazon. But if you've got a friend with a mill (or a friend of a friend) I don't think Sam has a claim on it. A brass bottom portion might work just as well.
I wonder if the wound strings have trouble in the Graphtech saddles
There’s smaller conversion bushings that look like the historic Kluson bushings. I have them in my ES-335.
I owned a Vibrola 61 SG. Let’s just say that I’m pulling my hair out for you. I went down the same journey and ended up selling it. I bought another Custom Shop Strat(with some more money, obviously).
The smaller conversion bushings don't cover the imprint of the larger original bushing. I tried.
But I have this one staying in tune now. Which was more of an accomplishment than I anticipated.
I put new tuners on my new SG. I had to buy conversion bushings in make the old klusons fit. They look like what would have come on an original 60s SG.
We dont go to the moon because its easy, we go because its hard.
Sounding great .
My question is if you bend strings without the bar , does it still stay in tune. Because it sounds great
Yup, no issue with big bends or playing hard.
30:20 - lately I have been getting the Stringjoy 9-46 Signature set.
My experience with the kluson revolutions was bad. The gears were sloppy and they were a little gaudy. The gotoh magnums are super tight and look sharp. I didn't have very much tuning instability problems but after the goto's I have zero. But now that I'm planning on putting in Maestro brola on, I'm paying close attention to what others are doing.
Yes, Gotoh stuff is good. I put some vintage style Gotohs on an old Epi G400 because one tuner had been changed and looked completely different. The Gotohs are way better than tuners on a Les Paul that I have. Also, this old 90s Korean Samick Epiphone is now better than many Gibson SGs I have tried. I put Classic 57 pickups in and changed the bridge.
The notorious Maestro
See my earlier post. Nothing wrong with the unit.
I bought a sg standard ,days before California closed due to covitz. All together, l have had seven due.to theft.l can say I never had a tuning problem as long as I put Schaller or anything of quality.I did almost lose it when I had to buy one on the road and l had to use kluson machine heads.I have seen others play with them,no problem. I think they get loose after about 6 to 8 months of use depending on how often you changed strings.Then once they loosen up there is no way to tighten the machine head which will cause you to seek mental help it's cheaper to get quality machine heads.
This is a 2000 dollar guitar, let that sink in, it is absolutely bonkers.
$2500 now. But still much less than a Suhr or Core PRS.
@@CatharticGuitar Indeed, you have guitars that stay in tune that are more expensive, but also that are much much cheaper. Don't get me wrong, I have a SG with Vibrola, I just love the body shape and slim taper neck, so far I was not able to solve the tuning problems however.
Just got a 2020 '61 Reissue. Those Gibson bridges are complete trash. I feel like if I sneeze toward the Vibrola it goes out of tune (didn't do any dive bombs, just lightly push it). The necks on these are amazing! Worth looking into troubleshooting. Thanks for this video, very helpful :) Gonna give this a try
So about $800 in bridges later… it DOES sound great tho! Looks good too!
Why I'll never buy another Gibson guitar. Mine is sorted. At great cost in money and more importantly my time. Time I could have spent on a bazillion other things I want to do.
I get your point, but nowhere near that much dough.
You can buy Graph Tech saddles to fit these bridges. I bought them for a Heritage guitar. Mainly because Heritage screwed up cutting notches in the saddles and the Graph Techs were the only decent saddles I could get that fitted without buying a new Tone Pro bridge. It had nothing to do with having a vibrato system but the Graph Tech saddles are great.
I have a new solution. You fit the Faber conversion posts, get the Faber locking bridge. Then it's all locked down but you can also get roller saddles that fit the Faber bridge.
Almost all guitar that have Bigsbys or things like that Maestro are a joke. They don't have parts that allow it to work right.
always tune up to pitch and do you tug on strings a few times before your final tune? I can't believe how many people don't know this. I'm really interested in this guitar but not if I can't use the vibrola and I mean respectively not bomb diving I got my original floyd's to do that, but if I can't keep the vibrola in tune then I might as well go for the hardtail and save $650 here in canada.
you could try a string butler to help with the Gibson string angle
Which Faber bridge was that again? I lost track! I have a 2021 AAA top Standard that I've been mulling over installing the faber inserts on. Did you notice any difference in tone?
The LP has the locking. The SG has the non-locking. I think both guitars were improved by the new studs. The bridges don't have that stupid wire that likes to buzz and on the LP it's nice that the bridge doesn't want to fall off and the thumb wheels don't want to move when changing strings.
Faber has been great in all my Gibsons that have a Nashville or modern type ABR 1 bridge. Those conversion studs really transfer vibrations and are solid. Coupling this with their bridge and the guitaar comes alive. About a week ago, I acquired a new 2020 ES-335. I did the standard tuner keys and bridge & post swap to faber hardware. To my surprise, inside each post hole, I found a wire insulating sleeve as to keep the Gibson post secure. This is proof that they know what they are doing is flawed and they're just putting a band aid for a fix. That being said, after the Faber mods, the guitar sings.
mine stays in tune but the arm sticks out at a 45 degree angle and it's unbelievably stiff, plus the angle of the spring is more acute
ALOHA FRIEND IS THERE A WAY TO ADD SEND RETURN TO A MORGAN JMI ? IS THERE A KIT YOU CAN RECOMAND ?THANK YOU
I'm kinda of glad I just ordered the budget IYV SG with vibrola, off Amazon for $206:the budget guitars uses a much more stable bridge system with a huge metric body stud,the thumb screw post is much thicker and has a stot for a screw driver to adjust it over the top of the bridge, ,bridge sits very solid and the post and bridge don't move,strings should slide easy over a roller without moving any of the bridge or studs,these guitars are not supposed to operate like a Mustang where the bridge is supposed to move when using the bar,that's why I don't care for Gibsons thumb wheel design for this guitar,it's really better on a les paul with stop tailpiece,i understand what you were trying to do with the nylon saddles though,tendency to stick when using the trem.
Lyle. where did you find the domed adjustment wheels for the ABR-1 ?
Reverb seller. Or you can go to the German site mentioned in the video.
@@PsionicAudio Thanks!
Is the abr-1 bridge tapered on the bottom resting on the domed metal bridge screws?
No, the bottom of the bridge is still flat. Just the top surface of the washer is domed.
wrapping the string as per Gibson “ string tying” method solves the loose winding problems
The tuners the real single line kluson deluxe USA's are great I put them on my greco sg62 copy
I have welder’s torch tip files. I’m planned on trying those to file the slots. Do you recommend against that?
Ask a real luthier. I certainly messed things up with things like those and feeler gauges before getting some (used) nut files. But maybe I was just uniquely bad with the cheap tools.
Why didn't you want to use a roller bridge? Is it the looks or something else?
I address that in the video.
Could you please share a link to that bridge?
The Faber with nylon saddles? It's not available from Faber but a UK Reverb store makes them up.
@@PsionicAudio Ahh I see. I'll look them up on Reverb. thanks!!
So the current nylon saddles are stock Faber? no wear issues?
Some company in the UK is making them and putting them on Faber bridges. Got it on Reverb.
So far, so great.
@@PsionicAudio Thanks for the useful video.You reminded me of being 20 years old again. :) Experimenting with infinite options .It's one thing reading about a manufacturers claims of greatness of their product but we don't really know till we try various options. Might try the Faber on my Gretsch 6120.
Forgot to ask, what make roller bridges do you like?
Robby Krieger too!
Man i do not like these trems at all ! But i do see how people are able to solve a lot of the issues with this from what you show in this video. Thanks :-) Id always wondered how some of these guys still had a guitar in tune when they were done. haha
You went through a great deal of expense, trial and error which was interesting to see, but I think that you used a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I have the exact same guitar (2019) and I can go down 3 semitones and up 2 semitones and it stays in tune. The original nut is properly cut, the original saddles had any rough edges filed and I use 8 to 38 strings. This means that the thinner strings move freely through the saddles and nut slots. I also occasionally lube the saddles and nut slots slightly. My bridge hardly moves as it is set low to minimise rocking. All in all it just made common sense thinking about the physics involved. This will apply to any model Gibson as long as you don't use really thick strings.
Is that a custom shop?
what are you playing through?
Why don't they just make it so it stays in tune in the first place.
You don't necessarily need a whammy bar to play cool techniques on guitar unless you want to be like Eddie Van Halen or dimebag or Steve Vai but it's really your choice
I would have just gone with a roller bridge like the Guyker ones. I’ve been using them with Bigsby systems and hard tails. You get more room for intonation and you can get ABR-1, TOM and Nashville styles. And you don’t have to worry about the rollers wearing out. They may not look vintage but the idea of putting a wound string on traditional Gibson style saddles never made since to me. A saddle that digs into the string. What the hell?
If you don't like how the vibrola doesn't stay in tune and you don't want to do mods you could install a stop bar tail piece or you could install a Stratocaster tremolo bridge and add a locking nut or just install the locking nut and keep the vibrola on the guitar there's a variety of options
I thought most tuning issues were with the nut not being perfect
Most are. But the Maestro adds new friction points.
Just my opinion of course ... But it is a shame that Gibson opted for this faulty bridge design in the first place. I worked in my brother's Tallahassee music store back in the early '70s and saw Gibsons come in both new and used, that had the solid mounting bolt that ALSO had two thumb wheels on each one. The lowest thumb wheel would be screwed right down to the guitar's top, the upper would, of course, hold up the Tuna-matic (no one had ever heard the term, "ABR-1" back then). That provided a strong, stable bridge stand so that the strings would move through the saddles rather than have the entire bridge wiggle, especially in two different places. Many tuning problems and trem action problems stem from (as more people are beginning to realize) an improperly cut, non-lubed nut. And SG's have an inherent tuning problem in that long neck, as left-hand pull exerts backward pressure on it, especially with light gauge strings. Also, some SG Standards have the shorter neck tenon, which adds to that problem.
I agree on both the look and the sound that a VIbrola adds. And that George and Eric used these. I am blessed to have a custom shop 1964 Re-issue VOS and it is a tough monster to put back into the case. Play what you want, brother. Just play!
I never understood having a vibrato on a Gibson guitar. Just personal taste I guess. 😋
When I want a little vibrato from my SG, I just shake and bend the neck a bit! Seriously...the long necks on them are so inherently flexible that it takes a light touch to avoid inadvertently bending the neck while playing. I absolutely love my SG Classic with P-90s, but it took awhile to learn how to play it properly.
I want it because of the aesthetic and the weight/balance improvement. wouldn't use the trem 99% of the time.
They’ve only had 70 yrs to sort these issues out …..
Now do a sideways vibrola.
I love the looks and sound of this guitar but honestly, Gibson (IMHO) has never gotten the trem systems right on any of the guitars that they have ever made and that includes (i don't mean to be rude) that ugly and bulky Floyd Rose trem system. If it were me, I would buy a cheap knock off SG from Garden Guitars ($179.00 to $229.00) and route the body for a fender trem, which in my opinon is one of the best and most touch sensitive. Leo knew what he was doing. RIP Leo. Peace
If you need to rework a guitar for a guitar to work , then the guitar is not the right guitar for you !! My late father, in the early 70s bought me a Les Paul Custom and a Fender Strat !! I was completely bored watching him try guitars out thinking he's shopping for himself !! One sale Rep told me " your father is the real deal " !! He gave me those Guitars in firmly telling me " please don't change anything on these guitars " !! 50 years later in just changing strings and a intonation from time to time !! Mostly, I use the guitars as conversation pieces !! Nevertheless, just buy and play a few guitars that are designed right , and you'll be a better player because you'll want to play more and more !!
You would think that for a 2500$ us gibson would have it in tune but noo....
Step 1: Don't get a Gibson with anything other than a stop tail.
Why would Gibson put such garbage on the SG in the first place?
Gibson use the same unit on 335, 345, 355, Firebird and non - reverse Firebird, Flying V so not just SG models.
It's all about the set up of the guitar. Not the fault of the unit. See my detailed earlier post.
It is impossible to find a Gibson Maestro Lyre vibrato for sale or a Gibson bridge that equips the Gibson Les Paul Custom. I would like to know why they are only available second-hand at prices that are too high. Why can't we buy these accessories new?
This is fix the problem or still out of tune