I thoroughly appreciate this tutorial. As an absolute newbie to airsoft, I find it really hard to come across decent tutorials, especially in the shell loading topic. Thanks for the effort, I'll make sure to follow your recommendations!
Oh, here it is :) Found this thanks to your post in the CAM owners group. Great alternative to your push rod that I use for pushing down the disks is a regular CR123 battery. Makes a really tight fold along the shell casing but it won't pass by the threading, to push it beyond there I use a piece of 14mm diameter pipe. But I think it may result in less BB's fitting in. My max is 14 6mm bb's, but I never really compressed or experimented yet.
lol...I had the same bullpup kit for my APS. I sold them because it was to topheavy. Nice video. By the way, you inspired me to construct a realsteel SPAS12 with dual-mode based on the CAM870. Thanks for that
I could never get homemade wads to be as consistent or as reliable as the APS version. I wonder if it's possible to 3D print your own wads and even caps instead?
@@souswodaem1 Why? First of all you'll need to print them off of a flexible plastic, PLA is too brittle, so nylon or ABS would do the job, which wouldn't be any different to what APS uses.
I've been wondering if it would be possible to introduce the same technology but in modern looking pistols like glock beretta etc. I know there are co2 revolvers where you either put bbs or pellets into the shells. A pellet gun with the looks of a glock with CO2 shells would be a really cool plinking toy :)
Will you make a detailed build guide, such as the materials and tools used/assembly guide/parts list, for the exoskeleton and vortex flamethrower soon? Or have you already discussed these topics in a different video?
I apologize for the delay on those- I do intend to, but I've been busy lately with house work and unpacking from a move. One of my teammates is actively working on a flamethrower build tutorial right now, so that should be ready within the next couple of months. The exoskeleton needs a little more tinkering before I feel confident enough in the ergonomics to publish details, so that will be a little later.
How many shells you are able ro refill with a 88g co2 cartrige? Im struggeling to decide what to use. Co2 or hpa and what shells should i use smart or normal. Can someone help me out please?
It's an Orion flare pistol. In the US, they're sold at stores which carry outdoor sporting gear: www.walmart.com/ip/Orion-12-Gauge-Alerter-Basic-4/16326927
Great video, please can you explain us how did you modify the flare gun? As far as i know they are not compatible with regular 12g shells, the chamber is a bit shorter so noone could put a real 12g inside and blow the gun in the hand
That's correct. There are three areas of modification to the flare gun: 1. The barrel was bored out with a Dremel to lengthen the chamber. 2. The firing mechanism was altered- an extension made of brass rod sticks out the bottom of the hammer and is pulled back by the trigger, forcing the hammer to pivot forward and fire the shell. So it's now a direct striker design, rather than a spring-loaded hammer. 3. The firing pin was ground off, bored through, and replaced with a rounded-off section of brass rod, so that it can clear the rim of the shell and trigger the valve. Each of these was the result of just having the flare gun in hand and seeing what needed modification. It was a pretty easy process; I wasted a bunch of time trying to get the original spring-loaded hammer mechanism to work, but ultimately it's just not suited to the design of the APS shells. Had I started with abandoning that concept, it would have taken under two hours in total.
Question: It looked like you were using the KJW / Haw San Mad Max Double Barrel Shotgun in this footage. Doesn't the barrel diameter not support shells outside of the proprietary ones that come with it? Did you have to do any special modifications to the double barrel to get it to shoot these shells? Additionally, where'd you get the holster for the double barrel? Is nice.
Yes, the Hwa San's been modified. If you remove a grub screw from the end of each barrel, then the entire inner barrel assembly comes right out. It can then chamber the Goblin shells without modification, but to get it to shoot APS shells I used barrel inserts and an extractor from Blobworks on Shapeways, and extended the firing pins myself. The holster is a replica of the one used in The Road Warrior, made by a prop maker on Etsy.
@@CatgutViolin Thanks for the quick reply! Last question: What would be your opinion on using perfectly size O-rings on the ends of the shotgun shells in place of the barrel inserts? (For the purpose of keeping the shells in place). I figure this would be acceptable assuming you remove the inner barrel assembly, which I intend to do.
@@JollyGeneral I'm a little confused as to what you intend for the O-rings to do- once the barrel inserts are removed, you're left with smoothbore barrels perfectly suited for the APS shells, which are held in place by their rims (more or less how a real shotgun works). I've used O-rings when I've had distinct chamber and barrel segments and needed a good seal, like on my Martini-Henry, but that definitely isn't needed here.
@@CatgutViolin Oh? I thought you said you needed the barrel inserts for it to shoot the APS shells. From what I understand about this double barrel: *Some* kind of modding is required to shoot anything other than the stock shells, because of the shell lip/barrel difference. (Except for Goblin shells, like you've said) because otherwise, they'd just fall through the barrel and slide around. My goal is to use an O-ring on the outside of the shell itself, up against the normal lip, to create a new lip that has just enough diameter to catch the barrel, and not fall through / slide around. I'd then purchase just the firing pins, or find a way to extend them myself like you. Mostly because of budget, because I can't really justify $20x2 for barrel inserts.
@@JollyGeneral Oh yes, that's my bad- the inserts for the APS shells are chamber sleeves, since the APS shells are a little narrower than the barrels. The rims will keep them in place, but without a sleeve they can slide around and misalign. I'm not sure if you could use O-rings for that purpose.
Thanks so much for this video! I ask myself the question on why these pump action shotguns are so expensive, seeing as how the purpose of it is simply to eject the shell, prime the firing pin. Then strike the shell, so why do they cost more then some of these great quality AEGs that use internal wiring and electronics, lol. If anybody can tell me why I'm seeing 320$ pump action shotguns, I'd love to hear.
The long and short of it is that to feed, fire, and eject shells you need better quality materials and significantly more internal complexity than a cheap AEG. Virtually everything in a CAM870 is CNCed or cast aluminum, whereas for the most part a < $200 AEG is going to be primarily pot metal for the body construction and can get away with lots of plastic internals (eg piston and hop-up), along with economies of scale from copying decades-old Tokyo Marui designs. I used to own a Maruzen M1100 (another shell-ejecting shotgun), which wasn't a bad gun, but constantly had issues relating to its build quality- for example, the extractor degraded rapidly and would start stovepiping, and the latches used to control shell feeding would wear down and cause double feeds. The use of shells means there's a lot more metal-on-metal contact than you get in an AEG, where basically the only parts under stress are the gears and piston. A better comparison in terms of build quality would be G&P AEGs. They're not steel, but they're not pot metal either, and tend to go for around the same price as the CAM870s. If you just want a shell-ejecting shotgun, the PPS guns tend to be a bit cheaper.
The seal will break long before the threads disengage, so just unscrew until you can hear it venting CO2, let it vent fully, and then continue unscrewing. Alternatively, you can unscrew until the valve stem is no longer depressed, then press the fill adapter into a hard surface to discharge the pressure.
Can anyone clarify how this thing works? Each shell is powered myself, ensued you've managed to get in the shell flies down the barrel and the spread of whatever shot obliterates pigeon, with spray starting somewhere between muzzle an target. Pcp, Hpa, release pressured gas throwing the shell towards the target with a much further range before the spread sprays the target, Is that correct?
On APS' website they also have "X-Power" shells that seem to be more potent. You said this technique already raises the power of the "regular" shells, correct? So I would be best buying the normal ones lest I actually hurt someone.
Sure, you can load 8mm BBs (I believe four fit comfortably), or 0.68cal rubber slugs. I haven't tried the new high-power shells, but my thinking is that with those, you can use either gaseous CO2 or HPA and still get usable power, so that you don't need to use liquid CO2 like I demonstrate here. Liquid CO2 is powerful, but it's hard on the shell's seals, and isn't the most convenient thing compared to an HPA tank and fill station.
I thoroughly appreciate this tutorial. As an absolute newbie to airsoft, I find it really hard to come across decent tutorials, especially in the shell loading topic. Thanks for the effort, I'll make sure to follow your recommendations!
Very nice. Excellent demonstration and explanation. Thanks for uploading!
Oh, here it is :)
Found this thanks to your post in the CAM owners group.
Great alternative to your push rod that I use for pushing down the disks is a regular CR123 battery. Makes a really tight fold along the shell casing but it won't pass by the threading, to push it beyond there I use a piece of 14mm diameter pipe.
But I think it may result in less BB's fitting in. My max is 14 6mm bb's, but I never really compressed or experimented yet.
Great idea. Additionally, 18650 batteries might just work even better since they are longer
lol...I had the same bullpup kit for my APS. I sold them because it was to topheavy. Nice video. By the way, you inspired me to construct a realsteel SPAS12 with dual-mode based on the CAM870. Thanks for that
Now I wanna buy a flair gun and a bunch of these shells
I could never get homemade wads to be as consistent or as reliable as the APS version. I wonder if it's possible to 3D print your own wads and even caps instead?
Only issue with 3d printed wads is those are gonna hurt like a MF if you take a hit with one.
@@souswodaem1 Why? First of all you'll need to print them off of a flexible plastic, PLA is too brittle, so nylon or ABS would do the job, which wouldn't be any different to what APS uses.
Can you use green gas with the shells?
I've been wondering if it would be possible to introduce the same technology but in modern looking pistols like glock beretta etc. I know there are co2 revolvers where you either put bbs or pellets into the shells. A pellet gun with the looks of a glock with CO2 shells would be a really cool plinking toy :)
You are of a great help to me man !! Liked !
Hello, What type of adapter do you use on your tank to fill your shells? do you fill them with CO2 or HPA? thanks
Would love that bullpup kit for my APS I doubt I could get it imported to the UK.
cheers ! nice video,
what size in millimeters is the hole punch ?
3/4" is almost exactly 19mm. An 18mm will work too.
Do they make green gas hulls?
What gas are you using in that shell? Can it take both green gas and CO2?
You're Savior. Very THX.
Love your video and your saving me tons of money! I wonder what your double barrel sawed off is, i love that little guy and just need to have it
Maybe umarex hds 68 i think
Hello, where can I find the holster you have in the video?
Where can I get the punching machine from the video?
명월 he says amazon
Will you make a detailed build guide, such as the materials and tools used/assembly guide/parts list, for the exoskeleton and vortex flamethrower soon? Or have you already discussed these topics in a different video?
I apologize for the delay on those- I do intend to, but I've been busy lately with house work and unpacking from a move. One of my teammates is actively working on a flamethrower build tutorial right now, so that should be ready within the next couple of months. The exoskeleton needs a little more tinkering before I feel confident enough in the ergonomics to publish details, so that will be a little later.
I really want to know if these would work in a hwasan double barrel (mad max) if you removed the inner barrels and 3d printed a chamber conversion.
How do i put like batteries and stuff in fast loading cartridges?
what if put 3bbs in that shell. not 17
How many shells you are able ro refill with a 88g co2 cartrige? Im struggeling to decide what to use. Co2 or hpa and what shells should i use smart or normal. Can someone help me out please?
how'd you use APS shells in that madmax double barrel shotgun??
can you load it with other things like ping pong and nerf rivals balls to make slugs?
Sure. The shells are designed to fit paintballs, so anything 0.68-cal or compressible to that size will work.
Hi. Do you have link or something to buy the first "flare gun" you use ? Thanks ;)
It's an Orion flare pistol. In the US, they're sold at stores which carry outdoor sporting gear: www.walmart.com/ip/Orion-12-Gauge-Alerter-Basic-4/16326927
Great video, please can you explain us how did you modify the flare gun?
As far as i know they are not compatible with regular 12g shells, the chamber is a bit shorter so noone could put a real 12g inside and blow the gun in the hand
That's correct. There are three areas of modification to the flare gun:
1. The barrel was bored out with a Dremel to lengthen the chamber.
2. The firing mechanism was altered- an extension made of brass rod sticks out the bottom of the hammer and is pulled back by the trigger, forcing the hammer to pivot forward and fire the shell. So it's now a direct striker design, rather than a spring-loaded hammer.
3. The firing pin was ground off, bored through, and replaced with a rounded-off section of brass rod, so that it can clear the rim of the shell and trigger the valve.
Each of these was the result of just having the flare gun in hand and seeing what needed modification. It was a pretty easy process; I wasted a bunch of time trying to get the original spring-loaded hammer mechanism to work, but ultimately it's just not suited to the design of the APS shells. Had I started with abandoning that concept, it would have taken under two hours in total.
Question:
It looked like you were using the KJW / Haw San Mad Max Double Barrel Shotgun in this footage.
Doesn't the barrel diameter not support shells outside of the proprietary ones that come with it? Did you have to do any special modifications to the double barrel to get it to shoot these shells?
Additionally, where'd you get the holster for the double barrel? Is nice.
Yes, the Hwa San's been modified. If you remove a grub screw from the end of each barrel, then the entire inner barrel assembly comes right out. It can then chamber the Goblin shells without modification, but to get it to shoot APS shells I used barrel inserts and an extractor from Blobworks on Shapeways, and extended the firing pins myself. The holster is a replica of the one used in The Road Warrior, made by a prop maker on Etsy.
@@CatgutViolin Thanks for the quick reply!
Last question: What would be your opinion on using perfectly size O-rings on the ends of the shotgun shells in place of the barrel inserts? (For the purpose of keeping the shells in place).
I figure this would be acceptable assuming you remove the inner barrel assembly, which I intend to do.
@@JollyGeneral I'm a little confused as to what you intend for the O-rings to do- once the barrel inserts are removed, you're left with smoothbore barrels perfectly suited for the APS shells, which are held in place by their rims (more or less how a real shotgun works). I've used O-rings when I've had distinct chamber and barrel segments and needed a good seal, like on my Martini-Henry, but that definitely isn't needed here.
@@CatgutViolin Oh? I thought you said you needed the barrel inserts for it to shoot the APS shells.
From what I understand about this double barrel: *Some* kind of modding is required to shoot anything other than the stock shells, because of the shell lip/barrel difference. (Except for Goblin shells, like you've said) because otherwise, they'd just fall through the barrel and slide around.
My goal is to use an O-ring on the outside of the shell itself, up against the normal lip, to create a new lip that has just enough diameter to catch the barrel, and not fall through / slide around. I'd then purchase just the firing pins, or find a way to extend them myself like you.
Mostly because of budget, because I can't really justify $20x2 for barrel inserts.
@@JollyGeneral Oh yes, that's my bad- the inserts for the APS shells are chamber sleeves, since the APS shells are a little narrower than the barrels. The rims will keep them in place, but without a sleeve they can slide around and misalign. I'm not sure if you could use O-rings for that purpose.
Thanks so much for this video! I ask myself the question on why these pump action shotguns are so expensive, seeing as how the purpose of it is simply to eject the shell, prime the firing pin. Then strike the shell, so why do they cost more then some of these great quality AEGs that use internal wiring and electronics, lol. If anybody can tell me why I'm seeing 320$ pump action shotguns, I'd love to hear.
The long and short of it is that to feed, fire, and eject shells you need better quality materials and significantly more internal complexity than a cheap AEG. Virtually everything in a CAM870 is CNCed or cast aluminum, whereas for the most part a < $200 AEG is going to be primarily pot metal for the body construction and can get away with lots of plastic internals (eg piston and hop-up), along with economies of scale from copying decades-old Tokyo Marui designs.
I used to own a Maruzen M1100 (another shell-ejecting shotgun), which wasn't a bad gun, but constantly had issues relating to its build quality- for example, the extractor degraded rapidly and would start stovepiping, and the latches used to control shell feeding would wear down and cause double feeds. The use of shells means there's a lot more metal-on-metal contact than you get in an AEG, where basically the only parts under stress are the gears and piston.
A better comparison in terms of build quality would be G&P AEGs. They're not steel, but they're not pot metal either, and tend to go for around the same price as the CAM870s. If you just want a shell-ejecting shotgun, the PPS guns tend to be a bit cheaper.
Is it safe to remove the ordinary co2 adapter? Or do you leave it screwed on until the bottle is empty? Any tips when you remove it under pressure?
The seal will break long before the threads disengage, so just unscrew until you can hear it venting CO2, let it vent fully, and then continue unscrewing. Alternatively, you can unscrew until the valve stem is no longer depressed, then press the fill adapter into a hard surface to discharge the pressure.
@@CatgutViolin Thanks! Can you leave it on?
@@twinturboshow CO2 is really rough on seals. You could, but it will likely develop a pinhole leak sooner or later and then slowly vent the tank.
Can anyone clarify how this thing works? Each shell is powered myself, ensued you've managed to get in the shell flies down the barrel and the spread of whatever shot obliterates pigeon, with spray starting somewhere between muzzle an target.
Pcp, Hpa, release pressured gas throwing the shell towards the target with a much further range before the spread sprays the target,
Is that correct?
What is the bull pup stock?
It's a Bullpup Unlimited Remington 870 bullpup stock.
I'm wondering, would 8mm bbs or even a sort of slug be possible with these shells?
On APS' website they also have "X-Power" shells that seem to be more potent. You said this technique already raises the power of the "regular" shells, correct? So I would be best buying the normal ones lest I actually hurt someone.
Sure, you can load 8mm BBs (I believe four fit comfortably), or 0.68cal rubber slugs. I haven't tried the new high-power shells, but my thinking is that with those, you can use either gaseous CO2 or HPA and still get usable power, so that you don't need to use liquid CO2 like I demonstrate here. Liquid CO2 is powerful, but it's hard on the shell's seals, and isn't the most convenient thing compared to an HPA tank and fill station.
Why’d he have to put his hand on top of the flair gun
What would happen if you tried to fire this out of a real shotgun
Hey what holster do you use for your super shorty?
Do you mean the Hwa San? For that I use a replica Mad Max leather holster from a shop on Etsy.
What paper are you using?
140lb/300gsm watercolor paper. Think I mentioned it in the video.
where can i actually find that hole punch????
I got it on Amazon.
What!!! You load a C02 shell into a flare gun LOL
What size is the pipe to use to press the paper in on the bbs ?