5 Most Deadly 22 Rounds for Self-Defense
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- Every once in a while, you might hear someone say rimfire cartridges are great for self-defense, but the sad truth is, as far as ballistics and reliability are concerned, they pale in comparison to the most popular centerfire cartridges the huge majority of semi-autos and revolvers are chambered for.
The most potent of rimfire cartridges can really only be considered a great option for self-defense when fired from a rifle, and even then, there are things about the bullet’s terminal to worry about. In handguns, the terminal performance of any given caliber is determined by the bullet’s dimensions, construction and design, whether or not it would expand, how wide it would expand if it would expand at all, and how deep it would penetrate.
A bullet’s expansion and penetration capabilities are functions of its weight and size and the cartridge’s powder charge. In general, penetration and expansion are inversely proportional to each other -- that is, a bullet has less penetration as it expands, and vice-versa -- the only way around this is to increase the powder charge.
Please LIKE and SUBSCRIBE help us reach 500k Subscribes ☺
➥ / madmanreview
➥ Facebook: / madmanreview.official
➥ Join and Discuss: / 1053516638394077
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#22lr #rimfire #selfdefense
best 22 for self defense, 22 self defense round, 22lr defensive round, 22lr critical defense ammo, most deadly 22 round, best.22lr for self defense, cci velocitor for self defense, most lethal 22lr ammo, best 22 ammo, best 22 lr ammo, 22 self-defense ammunition,
![🎮เกมยิงปืนใหม่ ภาพสวย และ สมจริงที่สุดในโลก [ BODYCAM ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/My3l1owRY9I/mqdefault.jpg)
When I was a teenage army brat, i shot on small bore and big bore rifle teams. We used to call the .22LR match grade ammo we used in our target rifles, the "bouncing bullet" or the "ricochet round", mainly because our instructors told us that once the bullet entered the human torso, it most commonly changed directions and would end up in some other organ. They did not follow the original wound track, or entry point. Basically, you can "bleed out" relatively easily from a upper torso hit with a .22lr, before medical personnel can intervene. Former President Ronald Regan is a good example of a potential "bleeding out" fatality. He did not die only because of heroic efforts by medical staff who finally found the point of entry to realize he had received a gunshot wound in the first place. The little round after ricochet off the door post of the car he was riding in, and as he was entering the car, struck him in the back rib cage, ricochet off the rib and turned upward and stopped within an inch of his heart. That was only one shot, the velocity was low enough the round did not detonate as it was intended to do, nor expand.
Also have seen a .22 Short, fired from a revolver with a 2.5 inch barrel, had hit an elderly lady on the collar bone, at an angle, travel the bone line, exit her arm pit, re-enter the inside of her upper arm and travel almost down to her elbow, between her arm bone and the artery. Never tore the artery. She recovered of course. The detectives brought the little 29 grain hollow point into our squad room, showing us how it never expanded. The little bullet was pristine, with only a scuff mark on the nose of the round.
My personal conclusion is that since surgeons really dislike working on .22 bullet wounds due to trying to find all the would channels, the little bullet leaves behind, stopping the bleeding, etc. My own experiencing with the .22 bullet in law enforcement, a .22 bullet is a NASTY, NASTY bullet to be shot with. It's lethality is woefully underestimated in human torso hits, especially IF a person is shot multiple times. Head and heart shots need not be said. Just FYI
At $10.00 a box of 50 rounds, that is .20 cents a round ,not .02 cents a round.
Well they got the other prices right :D
I’m not gonna lie every time I watch this channels videos I hear at least 1 or 2 things that are just flat out wrong
Depends on whether you went to UC Berkley or CalTech. 🤣
Math is hard
@@harmansmith84 same thing with me. Every video has at least 1 piece of false info. I have to admit I do likenhis videos though.
Never ever underestimate the 22lr. They are absolutely lethal and obviously your gonna shoot more than one shot in a self defense situation.
If it's good enough for grandma , it's good enough for you.
Ive seen plenty of people drop by a .22 that round is no joke its faster than a .25 auto
Yeah my uncle shot himself with a 22lr when I was bout 5 yrs old as we were pulling up the driveway, he fought with depression real bad ..it took him out unfortunately ..22 is definitely no slouch rip uncle Roger
@@randyhardy3692sorry to hear that mate it’s very sad 🇦🇺
@@gdgamer0636That is not saying much.
Great video on 22 cal. rim fire ammo for self defense. I'm a retired gunsmith (79) and am asked about about older folks carrying a 22 L R or 22 WRM for self defense. I say YES to them because with price they can shoot & practice more on their skill hitting their targets where they aiming. Thanks young man. 1SG. Huro USA RET.
Well... a 22 LR hit even in the hand, takes a lot of fight out of you- ask me how I know.
Amen.. I can't imagine a 22lr hitting a rib.. just take your knuckle and give it a poke.. I've seen a big hog taken down with 1 shot to the head.. nothing crazy about 50 years ago plain old 22 lead.. and I'm pretty sure it was a revolver.. and as I stated in another response.. you hit the spinal nerves and game over period.. I don't care what someone is hopped up on..no nerves no control..
That’s taking one for the team for sure.
"For science!"
co-worker shot himself in the thigh with a mini...he was back at work the next day, but endured a lot of teasing.....
@@frankpienkosky5688 extracted or left in place?
I remember buying .22LR for 25¢ for a box of 50. I could go through a box a week. When Remington came out with the 500 round brick (10 50 round boxes) my ammo consumption increased exponentially. At today's prices I'm glad I stocked up a few years ago. I think I'm down to a little over 18,000 rounds.
Better to spend money now while it's worth more and you get more for it. People that save their money, because they worry about the economy failing are stupid. Why keep all that money if it's not going to have value in the near future?... and by not spending their money, they actually Cause the economy to fail. Cowardice and selfishness cause destruction.
What state you living in man. I go to Academy on any given day and pick me some up on the way to the range.
@@deucedeuce1572 People aren’t stupid for not spending all their money. I don’t buy while prices are gouged, I waited it out during the Obama ammo fabricated crisis and Ill do it again. I do buy some here and there but price can’t be too outrageous for the time or we just won’t shoot.
I probably have a lil more then half of what you have. 👍
@@deucedeuce1572 Exactly that's why I put most of my money into other tangible items that one could sell or barter for necessities, I also bought gold and silver because unlike currency that only represents value, gold and silver are value and have always been value, bullets are also great trading items 👍
50 round box for $10.00 is not 2 cents per round, it is 20 cents per round as you said while talking about CC. I agree with you on its use and reliabllity.
If fuking glad im not the only one that caught that!
2 cent a round would be awesome. 500 rounds for a $10 note.
Same I was gunna say that but im glad I scrolled down a ways. If you do the math on a calculator it says .2... understandle mistake. I carry 9mm though. 22 is fun for squirrels and stuff. Thanks for the vid
Thanks, I erased my comment.
I was like WTF kind of BS discount math was that?! Haha Anyways, if 22lr ammo were really back to 2 cents per round I'd buy 10K rounds tonight!
The various articles that claim a 22LR isn’t deadly are all in the wrong. As a retired urban EMS provider I can tell you with first hand knowledge that the 22LR is every bit as deadly as any other cartridge, and it doesn’t matter at all rifle versus pistol. Expansion or none, what ever. What matters is where the bullet goes. End of discussion. You put a 38 special or a 9mm in to the middle of the chest cavity, or whatever center-fire caliber you want to, and only good luck will save that person; likewise a single 22LR in the same place is no less lethal. Put 2 or 3 of them in to the chest, almost nobody will survive. If you don’t think a 22LR will knock someone down, I suggest you go watch the video of President Reagan nearly getting killed, and watch the SS agent’s reaction to a .single 22LR in to his right midsection. Honestly these discussions about how a 22LR is not a good choice are just stupid. Half or more of the fatal GSW I saw and dealt with were from the 22LR. Tell you what, for a typical civilian, something like an Sig P322, with a single 20 round magazine protecting the home environment, is plenty of gun and firepower. Shot placement rules the roost.
I remember when Reagan was hit, his wannabe using a snubby six shot.
The problem with 22 out of a pistol is- sure, you may mortally wound your opponent in a gunfight, but not enough to stop his will to fight. It is not a proven stopper. It will kill, but not quickly and decisively enough when your opponent is also shooting at you. Not recommended.
Spot on.
Exactly !!!, as retired cop there is a simple argument that has been used over and over when it comes to caliber, I go first and if you can get back up then you get to shoot me with your choice of caliber ...... amazingly, NO one ever accepts the challenge, reason being, getting shot is getting shot and the "will to fight" after getting shot is complete bullshit, your body does tons of weird things when traumatized that you can't anticipate and majority of the time that involves pain, unconsciousness and being immobilized, i've seen people shot with a 45 be conscious and alert and people shot with a 22 be dead on the spot, watched a man die after getting shot in the gut with a shot gun and just look at me and be like... crap.... alert, dying, but not unconscious, technology and ballistic improvements have come so far that even high powered air rifles now challenge smaller caliber powder fire arms ..... put your money where your mouth is, if you aren't willing to take a shot from a 22 nuff said
Let’s not forget that a .22 is the one caliber that will travel inside instead of sit where it entered
In high school I worked for a slaughterhouse and on the kill floor I used only Remington 22lr. It wud drop the biggest steers and hogs with one shot. That was long before we had all these fancy self defense rounds.
Interesting
Exactly.. all this extra stuff might make a difference but totally unnecessary..
Mmm… I have seen cattle that have been put down with a 22 to come back the next day (for burial) and they have still been alive. And I’m referring to head shots. The minimum I would use would be 22 magnum. We’re talking about humane and ethical issues here. I hate to see a beast suffer any more than it has too.
With cattle slaughter you don’t want to kill an animal outright. You want to stun it with the .22 then cut its throat so the heart pumps the blood out. A slaughter animal doesn’t die from the head shot it dies of exsanguination.
I’d imagine that getting hit in the chest with a .22 is better than a 9mm
I use 22lr CCI stinger. Have for years. Out of the years of using, had 2 misfires. Great for varmints and self defense. Plus, you can carry 100 22lr in your pocket unlike center fire ammo.
The CCI Stinger is all I've ever used. I've killed many rabbits with the Stinger and never had a misfire like some Federal and even Remington rounds.
Although we don't get much snow here in Mississippi when I was 12-13 years old if I woke up to a fresh blanket of snow I'd put my hunting clothes on and through the woods I'd go. with that fresh snow it was easy to track a rabbit so I'd kill two or three swampers and supper was going to be good that night.
That's funny I had a whole bunch of wmr misfire out of a box. Pissed me straight the fk off. I won't buy em again .
Watching the video I had one question.....which of these products have 46 consecutive years of superb terminal performance on living flesh? Like 8 pound jackrabbits from a 4" Ruger auto. NONE. I bought Stingers as soon as they hit the market. I was sold on the very first shot turning a blackbird into a poof of floating feathers. Even the vintage .22 HP from a rifle doesn't even come close.
The maker of this video obviously has zero real world use of the products he's recommending. Aquila over CCI STINGERS???? Not on my life..!!
@@correctpolitically4784
Maybe it was the gun.
@@jtjjbannie works great with Remington. Doesn't miss a beat. With the Remington I don't have any hesitation of fanning the hammer because they fire every time. CCI no. I feel like I'm gonna get a hang fire. And I got the pistols for my kids. So safety is a greater concern. I don't know if it's their primers ? I guess maybe it could be. I had a derringer that would only fire certain rnds once.
Modern day armchair warriors consider the 22 lr "Anemic".
The very purpose of a 22 lr is to provide firearm capability in the smallest possible profile.
A gun is just one tool needed for survival. You also need, water, shelter, clothing, food, medical supplies, other tool etc.
Settlers and travellers preferred a 22 lr because it didn't use up carry capacity.
I think modern preppers have a strange idea about what survival looks like. If you think you're going to carry around a 10lb rifle and 10 lbs of ammo, you're mistaken. As soon as thirst sets in , you'll wish you replaced that AR 10 with a 10/22 so you could carry a spare water bag.
John Hinckley Jr., using a short barrel .22 pistol fired 6 shots and took out 4 grown men. Only emergency surgery saved them, and 2 were permanently disabled, but all were out of the fight. And reliability is only an issue if you use junk ammo, or a junk firearm. Of all the people who scoff at .22s, I’ve yet to meet one that was willing to be shot by one. The simple fact is some people aren’t capable of shooting larger caliber firearms. My wife is 5’4” and weighs 120 lbs. She can’t handle even a 9mm. But you really wouldn’t to face her with a .22 in her hands.
I don't like it when I'm sleeping in a room with a buzzing mosquito about.
They do less damage than a .22LR.
Back in the 80s my buddy work in a 711 that got robbed. He shot n killed 4 men with 6 rounds out of a .22
People always doubt a .22 but it will kill just like anything else
@@jonathanbennett6184 .22s funny till it gets unloaded in your general direction and thats a fact jack! I remember as a young YOUNG kid (damnit i feel horrible n probably one of the reason i have a heated reservation all said n done) but i BLASTED a kid with a 👌 perfect slingshot stone out of my very own handmade dennis the mennis/ bart simpson slingshot i crafted using my very 1st swiss army knife. I beemed this poor kid n he never seen it comin right in the passenger side of his face like under eye above cheek area from about 80ft and he was cruising on his bike and evil or not it was an impressive shot for a 7 yr old little badass me. But UNFORTUNATELY I've always possessed the curse of the killers instinct and was naturally prolific with anything illegal or dangerous and a spooky good crack shot with all ranged weapons 🤷♂️ some of us got it, some DO NOT.. i like being on the side i got 😉 sorry mike gafney, you'll live- for now 🤭
The good thing about it is that you can stack multiple shots quickly and accurately. Shot placement is key, but recoil and stress con give you a miss.
So now your back to what you have, comfortable/familiarity, and practice is still the only way to make any of them work.
Another point not mentioned, is that 22 cal is well known to ricochet through out the body when striking bone! Ask any experienced emergency surgeon, you might be surprised just how deadly a .22 actually can be.
That's fudd lore. A .22 doesn't have enough power to ricochet off of a bone
@@dld4045 that's not remotely true
Some do strike 1 area and end up in another. A .22 mag has enuff gas it can go places not hit, any bullet CAN bounce off bone. Hell some can be fired hit 7 layers of anything, lose some mass inside tissue and then be found weighing same as new on a stretcher.
If round has enuff power left to not smash through bone it can travel, depending on how shallow the angle is like skipping a rock.
Alot of ppl get their info from Hollywood. Getting shot don't blow ppl backwards 15 feet, grenades don't catch things on fire, and if u try to pull the slide off of a pistol while being held up even if u do get the gun to not fire, if it's a High Point it's so heavy they just smack u over the head.
Thats why I think we need hot .380 in a heavier gun with a linger barrel and made of less lightweight materials and then save weight elsewhere. That way youre underneith the most common round in terms of 9mm but you have a round thats more capable of going through bone. And having a more damaging wound cavity. Shot palcement is key but you want the guy shooting you to die faster in fewer shots bro not peg him 30 times and he dies slowly. .380 more reliable than .22 and in a chaotic situation youre not going to hit square where youre aiming every time bro. Most of our bullets miss statistically speaking. So youre gonna end up poking 20 holes in non deadly spots and then get shot by a glock 7 times and die. You feel me. .22LR is for squirrels bro. Mice, snakes because you got .22 snakeshot ect. If you go with .22 for self defense it should be a 5.56 out of a barrel linger than your glock bro. I want you to live bro 😂 .22 is for plinking. Sure its suprr deadly any gun is and its the cheapest. Im not saying its not deadly but are you really going woth a varmint cartridge?
I so agree with you on your choice of rounds. Those are the exact rounds I use in my 22lr and 22 mags. I chose those rounds after watching countless videos and gel test. Thank you for reassuring me that I have made a wise choice.
Whether it's a 22lLR round or a ham sandwich, anything moving at 1,100ft per second is something you don't want to be hit with.
Nobody ever uses a 22LR and expects high blood loss, expansion, or shock n awe. What u get is an accurate round that acts like a pinball hitting vital organs. Bonus, no recoil w/rapid follow up shots.
place your shot where it counts.
@@user-dz4jj1tp8ilearn to shoot 9mm
Lots of people out there think 22 is harmles don't even know it's small but deadly and true no recoil and fallow ups armt a problem along as the guns kept clean useing good ammo nun of thay bucket shit
Blood loss or cns hits are the only way to end an attack. Why limit yourself to perfect shot placement (cns hits)? A proven caliber will give you a better chance of survival.
OUTSTANDING! Thank you sir. Here in the UK the .22LR is the only semi load available and that is in a carbine SA or bolt action rifle. No pistols here.
25 years ago the go to .22LR round was Winchester. That fell off a cliff into the pits of hell,
CCI was the only option left for.22LR! I switched to CCI and all I can say is CCI .22LR in any form is the ultimate no brainer, 100% reliable for me in 17 years. Thank you for posting
22 long rifle is not to be underestimated I would totally feel safe carrying a semi-automatic pistol in 22 caliber for self defense. Shot placement would be very important but with the little recoil you can fire a lot of rounds with good control and accuracy.
You sound just like a gun magazine writer. Poo.
@@eaglestryker1338 I hear ya, but i justify it by actual experience, not speculation and shooting into Jello.
I would actually feel more safe carrying a 22 revolver, unless you are doing battle with the Taliban or Cartels. In that case, you better get a long gun.
@@TightwadTodd A10 Warthog....fully automatic, of course.
@@jr-xs9tf
Nah...
Full auto wastes WAY too much ammo.
Echo trigger is probably a better bet.
cci stingers have always been my go to round. good velocity, and hard hitting for a .22 round.
The CCI Velocitor also tends to get adequate penetration regardless of barrel length. With short pistol barrels, the bullets won't expand at all, but they go deeper than most other loads, and generally fall within the proper penetration range. And with longer rifle barrels, generally there is good expansion plus the minimum penetration or better. You pretty much can't go wrong with the CCI Velocitor as a self-defense load.
Velocitor is a poor expander. Even in rifles, at best the bullet expands to look like a wadcutter. Never seen one with a classic mushrooming expansion. Out of a pistol cci mini mag 40gr solids will serve you just as well and less expensive.
Out of a rifle, stingers and mini mags 36gr hp will expand greater than velocitors at any distance where a velocitor is expected to expand.
@@Logan-py8we I'm far more concerned about achieving adequate penetration than impressive expansion, and the Velocitor gives us what it can with respect to the latter while performing admirably at all common barrel lengths with respect to the former. In my view, that makes it a safe, solid universal choice for a self-defense load. Not that others wouldn't work, but the Velocitor is probably the best among them overall, in my opinion. If you're looking for maximum expansion, then obviously there are better choices for that, but I wouldn't recommend this for self-defense.
Патрон Stinger 22lr в дырочку вставляете дробинку на супер-клей или по размеру и получаете Стингер с высоким проникновением.
I will only use Interceptors in my carry 22 and have NEVER had a misfire due to the ammo utterly reliable
A 22 short went through my hand, lungs, and liver. I weighed 220 pounds and it knocked me flat. I was lucky to survive. Rest assured I was out of the fight.
22 WMR is highly under rated, I have a Kel-Tek PMR 30 and have never had any issues with it regardless of the ammo, and the fact that I can load 30 rds in the magazine makes it very formidable.
Check out MCarbo upgrade accessories for the PMR30
I carry a Keltec P17...you really think a PMR 30 can be carried for self defense.
30 rounds with a mag? I just have bolt action and couldn’t imagine getting hit with it. The exit holes are huge. Blows everything up lol
@@larryhinze 22WMR doesn't expand much more than 22LR but it does Pentwater further than LR and expands better . So why not a PMR30?
@@larryhinze th-cam.com/video/_KesLCLMlOQ/w-d-xo.html
Most Complete review of 22 LR ever Madman. I picked up on those velocititors when they came out, Since I was a kid I would always get CCI stingers, that was only choice, but worked well
The CCI Stinger is technically its own rimfire, being longer than 22LR. Same goes for Aguila Supermaximum.
At somewhat longer distances, the hotter 40gr 22LR (rated over 1400 fps) retain more energy, from a rifle length barrel.
I'll stay with Stingers, always being mindful that rapidly delivered repeat hits make the package mo betta!
They aren't as great as you think, especially in short barrels. Federal Punch is better for this.
@@exothermal.sprocket Well they do great out of a 4.5" Colt Woodsman., and better out of a rifle. Punch or not, shot placement is paramount. Along with rapidly delivered repeat hits.
@@frankmorris4790 Shot placement is one important function, the other is something that's able to penetrate deeply enough and tear up tissue on the way.
Similar to the Remington Accelerator round which used a plastic sabot, one can improve any hollow point or regular round using a Foredom or Dremel bit of one's choice depending on the desired terminal ballistics based on the targeted material. Coupled with a cast acrylic sabot that disintegrates upon exiting the barrel and one could achieve phenomenal results in the internal, external, and terminal ballistics of what will become a favorite Varmint round.
I recall hearing that the Remington Accelerators had terrible accuracy due to inconsistent separation of the sabot petals. And .22 LR is already a small enough cartridge, so why would you load it with a sub-caliber saboted projectile?!
I asked the old man at our local gun store if 22lr was useless as a self-defense round. His response was "I'll make you a deal, go outside and run at the building, I'll empty this 22lr into you as you run, if you make it to the building I'll give you the gun for free."
i asked the old man at our local gun store if a kitchen knife was useless as a self-defense weapon. his response was i'll make you a deal, go outside and we'll have a boxing match except i get to stab you with the kitchen knife. if you survive i still get to keep the kitchen knife. not a very good deal!
the only trouble with that is you have to be able to hit what you're aiming at, which takes lots of practice, but at least .22 is cheap to shoot
If you're in any situation where you have to defend your life or your loved ones and the only gun
you have is chambered for rimfire cartridge, you can rest assured that a headshot'll get the job done,
as long as you load it with a good self-defence load. 👌
the anti-Castro Cubans sometimes were forced to go into combat with nothing more than a nylon 66....
Be careful with head shots. Sometimes they may skip off a skull.
Someone charging you at 10' away, you'll never get a headshot off. Better stick to 2 in the body core and 1 in the lower spine. Just saying, as member of USCCA and many concealed carry courses I've taken.
With 22 that’s actually not entirely accurate, always go for the chest anyways.
I’m surprised the Federal Punch 22lr didn’t make the list, as it is one of my fav for snub nose revolvers.
The only 22LR actually designed for self defense instead of varmint hunting. They went with the flat nose because it aint expanding anyway (as this video also stated), and a lighter load to try and get more speed from a short barrel and then nickle plating so that it's a little better protected from the elements while it waits to be used in a EDC or staged firearm for emergency use.
I hope someone gets around to comparing it to other 22LR rounds in the FBI gel and fabric compare, I get the idea, I just don't know if it actually works.
Check out Tools&Targets he has made a lot of videos comparing Federals 22lr punch to all the big names offering.
Lucky Gunner did a pretty comprehensive test of .22LR. Punch performed underwhelmingly. It would be a poor choice for self defense carry.
It's similar to a 38 special with soft lead semi-wadcutter. Deeper penetration and the flat nose provides for tissue tearing, where a round nose just wedges through without much damage. Similar as an Elmer Keith style bullet works really well in revolvers for big animals, when you cannot rely on rifle velocities and big expansion, the sharp-shouldered semi-wadcutter is a good choice. For 2-legged predators, I'd go with a SWCHP, softer lead, to avoid flying through and doing unintended damage beyond.
I like the Punch only from the NAA Mini revolvers with the shortest barrels. If I have a barrel long enough (like three inches or so) to harness sufficient energy from a 40-grain CCI MiniMag solid, I'd rather have the extra 11 grains of weight in the projectile.
I have been in EMS since 1986 and have seen many people shot with 22s. Most with multiple wounds! Many were dead on the scene the others ceased the behaviour that got them shot in the first place! These things will kill!
The key work there was multiple wounds. 22lr is not a good defensive round. I mean I wouldn't want to be shot with any caliber but it's widely excepted that 380 and 32 are the smallest round that can still reliability stop someone. There have been many people shot by a 22lr and didn't even know it. Would they die eventually? Probably. But if I'm being attacked I can't wait for eventually
@@crossfox1991 I made a call once. A man got out of his car at home and was ambushed by two men. He was hit five times in the chest with 9mm. He pulled his gun and chased them for a block. He walked back home and called 911. He survived his wounds with no problems. I agree the 22 is not ideal. I carry a 9mm or a 45 depending on the weather. The point is shot placement.
Well done! Thanks for the upload!
In the early 1980s I was using CCI Stinger Pentapoint .CCI claimed that the projectile would fragment into five pieces. I found that these were the most effective 22 rounds that I had ever seen. They seemed to be designed to cycle through automatics and I have read that other people have experienced misfires I have never after firing 10s of thousands of rounds had a mis fire or a jam. I use only the 10/22 Ruger and the Marlin .22 cal. clip/magazine fed rifles. I keep them clean and oiled. that's the key to perfect performance. the same is true for pistoles.
I would venture to say most gun owners of today are not aware of how to clean their weapons properly.
Anyone with any gun needs to take a basic gun safety and handling class, including how to maintain their weapons properly.
As well as learning not to touch s gun when upset/angry unless under direct threat of life and limb. Too much 'anger issue' shooting going on out there!
@@billybob-cd5oc That is sad. Cleaning my firearms is one of the great joys in my life.
@@billybob-cd5oc This is a good point, but part of the failure to fire issues some people have with .22 LR could simply be due to the firearms themselves--some guns are more picky about ammo than others even out of the box.
Another issue could be people using bargain bin .22 LR ammo, which is understandable, as a huge part of the appeal of .22 LR *is* how cheap it is.
despite living in america, I cannot legally own a gun. I'm 13 years old, if I were to own a gun it'd be under my guardians name. However, I have shot .22 before and I must say it's actually more reliable than one would think. The lack of recoil makes firing very quick. So If I were to carry a gun (I probably will when I'm old enough) it would be a .22 of some sort.
standard rd for competitive target shooting...the idea is to put a .22 cal bullet through a .22 cal hole at 50 ft...and to do it repeatedly
Hey guys this was great information! Thanks for this one !
I have had good luck with Federal 50 grain . 22lr on coyote. It was always a last resort but was effective. I like the extra bullet weight.
Actually this video reminds me as a kid I modified many 22 cartridges by hand. Even replacing part of the lead round for other materials. Surprised I lived past that time to go on and modify centerfire rounds as well. Lots of magazine articles on modified rounds in my day. Hollow base wadcutters loaded upside down, lead balls, multiple projectiles. All kinds of shapes.
Self defense can be 2400 powder in a .357 to make it a flame thrower for short range carterizing of the wound.🤣
How about 22lr> conversion to center fire
With a semi-wadcutter
I picked up a P226 in .357 SIG yes theres a flash!
@@knrz2562 wait do you mean , put a 22lr sized semiwad cutter projectile INTO a downnecked centerfire cartridge, ? i have no idea what your suggesting but if thats it, lol that sounds wild
imagine, a 50bmg downnecked to a 22LR shot from a 22" fully stationary barrel like a bench rest gun😆 thing would be damn unstoppable, stupid fast but tiny
@@Curtis.Carpenter yes I call it 22lr center fire improved
@@Curtis.Carpenter
I'd be amazed if the projectile doesn't disintegrate from that velocity
CCI blazers are basically the minimags without the copper jacket and are traveling appropriately 50 fps faster. They do a lot of tumbling. The extra speed even though it's not much will make a difference out of a short barrel.
The lube on the bullets makes a mess in the gun. Other than that ...Good cheap rounds.
I shot competitively and .22s were one of the most popular events. I carefully cataloged every brand I could find and you can spend some coin on the fancy brands. After all my research, I ended up with the cheapest rounds on the shelf....blazers. Of course, knock down power wasn't a.consideration, but they were.the most accurate.
This is great content exactly what I neeed for my .22 pistol thank you thank you!
For the record, there are a lot of rimfire and centerfire rounds that are marketed as hollow point, but do not expand upon penetration. Expansion, as we're discussing in this context is not a function of velocity as indicated in this video. While it is true that a round designed to expand might not do so if it doesn't achieve a targeted velocity or becomes clogged, but this video is incorrect to assert that all hollow point rounds are designed to expand. An example is the Sierra National Match Boat Tail Hollow Point (BTHP) in .308 which does not expand upon penetration. The hollow point in non-expanding ammunition is included because it reduces the drag coefficient which in turn improves external ballistics. The hollow point serves to trap a small column of air as the round travels. As the round continues moving, this trapped air begins to spin like a sideways tornado. It is called a, locked vortex flow. This sideways tornado protrudes slightly in front of the round and pre-cuts the air so the bullet experiences less drag. In effect, it reduces the friction the round experiences as it moves through the air and reduces the suction effect on the back of the round as the air column reforms. You have to remember that air is a fluid. You can see the same locked vortex flow effect in a pickup truck when a piece of paper floats around, but never flies out (but it only works when the lift gate is closed so the air vortex can be trapped and begin to spin. Car manufacturers build these cavities onto the front air dams of cars to do the same thing. You just have to look for them... they're everywhere.
I have been told by people who have actually used firearms in self-defense that the best way to use a 22 long rifle is,
Two rounds into their groin, then as they grab them selves and scream you put two rounds into their mouth.
It sounds to me like that Winchester varmint round would be perfect for this. I’ll bet you it would stop any encounter.
might be a little hard to defend that in court though....
CCI stingers or mini mags are both great .22lr cartridges and are super reliable. The federal punch .22lr is also a great round.
Well if you had to use a gun for self defence. You don't want the bullet having a through an through hole. In case a friendly is behind them.
Hope the day never comes where you have to find out.
Very informative, thanks
My self-defense, in home, weapon is a Ruger Charger. It has no sights but has a binary trigger and a hundred round drum magazine. I usually tell people that any home intruder isn't going to wear body armor so even a good slingshot can be effective at close range.
Wtf bro buy sights for your PC, that’s just sad
Yeah thats gonna probably jam on that drum.
I'm afraid.
Maybe sell the drum and consider some sights.
Pray and spray is no way to run in your home.
How much for the binary?
We've found CCI 22lr to be a very reliable, accurate round, and really enjoy using them. We've had no misfires with them yet, and I don't recall ever having a stray round. Unlike other brands we've tried.
Thank you for using ammunition I make.
@@michaelfeucht1911 Do you really make CCI ammunition?
Not at this moment, but yes, I worked there making ammo for a long time
The CCI's at around 5:19 work out to 20 cents a round, not 2 cents a round. I wish we could get 22lr ammo for 2 cents a round nowadays. Good video, love just about anything .22.
Yeah , my mind wasn't trying to wrap around that math.
@@themrsluggo
Later in the video they got the harder numbers correct though, lol.
Two cents a round? I remember, back in the 1980s, a case of 5,000 lr being $110.
@@MrVillabolo
If we only knew that ammo would have been well worth investing in, especially over the previous 2 years, we'd have much larger bank accounts, lol. 👍
You guys are buying the expensive stuff for what gain? Federal 325 box of 40 gr for $21 at Wally World. Those hollow points don't open anyway, and if you are counting on one shot, then buy a .45 ACP. Otherwise, just put 10 rounds of .22 into them.
I currently only own a Keltec P17 (22lr) and a PMR30 (22 magnum). Both are awesome and Federal, Hornady and Winchester make great personal defense rounds for them. Problem is, its getting harder to find 22lr and 22 magnum personal defense ammo. Its pretty odd because 22 magnum has never really been a popular round. I think the ridiculous ammo primes are forcing people into 22 because they are still relatively cheap in comparison. Secret is out I guess. Seems like a TON of people are using 22lr and 22 magnum for personal defense these days going by how unavailable the ammo is.
Yeah I have the same problem finding good .22 magnum ammo. If someone does carry it they usual only have regular fmj or ball rounds. I've been forced to order it online to find particular brands like cci or federal to get hollow points.
Wally World, stop selling Rifles and Ammunition about a year ago? But they said, they said that their overall sales DROPPED by 40%!
What is not clear is, they are selling rifles and ammunition at a HIGHER PRICE than what they used to! Even though the inflation is high, they aren’t selling rifles as much as they should be! Even there ammunition prices are way higher now as well! Their sales have increased, but not as much as they hoped they would!
If you buy a Bucket of.22s at about 1,500 in a bucket, it will cost you $189 Dollars! That’s
.13 cents per round!! But you can buy a 100 pack for $7.99 dollars and it’s.07 cents per round! At that price you can
buy more 100 pack and pay less
than buying a 1,500 Rounds
in a bucket!
For the 100 rounds at $7.99 a pack and you buy 16 packs,
1600 rounds, You will pay
$127.84 total!
As for.22 Mag, I think they were
$11.99 per 50 rounds? Not sure
If this is the right price for them!
Store location is in Clarksville, TN.
Where do you live where people are using 22lr for personal defense?
Thanks for the advise brother.
I've always sworn by CCI stingers
I like the 45 grains semi auto quiet bullets. 835 fps and not much noise . On the other hand the stingers are the fast ones around here.
Shot myself with a .22LR in the foot while chasing a home invader who was actively kicking my door in. I chased him and fell. Shot myself in the foot while falling. I knew the single action pistol went off but didn't know I hit myself. I tried to get up and run again, after him but couldn't. My entire lower leg and foot were 100% numb(I assume because of the shock wave that hit all my lower nerves) I fell after a few attempted steps/leg drags. Shattered a bone and it went clean through. The cartridge was prolly older than me. I lived with my pa-paw in my late teens at the time.
In the early 90’s, Stallone starred in a great movie titled ASSASSINS. He used 22lr in the movie.
Some .22’s will expand even out of a 4” barrel and make the minimum 12” of penetration. Lucky gunner and Paul Harrell have proven this.
There used to be a 50 gr 22 Magnum Gold Dot loading. It would expand to 40 cal out of a Mini revolver 1.5" barrel. It only went 1550 from a rifle, so I guess it was unpopular. I still have some. I might get a 22 Magnum some day.
Wow that's cool I imagine that's special order I can't find ammo for any of my guns and I got 5
We have some 50gr federal .22wmr, rated 1750 fps...haven't shot any of it, but we have always favored heavier bullets...probably not that great out of a short barrel, but no plans to just give the stuff away...we might need to buy a .22wmr rifle, because...
Just saw a green-framed PMR-30 on sale at PSA at the time of my posting.
bravo! very informative!
I've been fond of CCI mini mags since the mid 70's. My buddy had a Marlin Glenfield with the squirrel carved on the grip. We shot hundreds of those bullets through that rifle. Good memories.
Even a 22 short will peirce both sides of a galvanized pail at 10 ft. You just can't have an aversion to head shots.
Or if it hits a rib.. that is going to hurt.. and if you hit the spinal cord.. game over
and since 22lr low if not lowest on recoil side you have more control so you can have more control of where you shoot i use the small game 22lr in the video for boar hunting even a 22lr camber AR can take them down
The best 22LR in a semiautomatic handgun is one that will go boom cycle eject the spent brass and chamber the next round without a failure for me CCI 40 grain Mini Mags have been the most reliable 22LR round I've found regardless if it's FMJ or JHP in 22LR because in a 3 to 4 inch barrel the bullet is not going over 1000FPS so the bullets not moving fast enough for the hollow tip to work properly now out of a 16 inch barrel bullets exceeding 1200FPS that becomes a different story hollow points will be effective at these speeds the most important thing in 22LR ammo is reliably at least for me revolvers aren't as picky as a semiautomatic 22LR
My semi automatic 22lr is not picky , probably because it's a ruger
@@marvinbrewer8637 l have a Ruger SR22 pistol it has failed to eject but not often CCI Mini Mags 40 grain for me now this only my opinion has been the most reliable 22LR in my Ruger SR22 pistol and my Taurus TX22 very very seldom do l have a malfunction using it Winchester and Remington not so
Check out 22 punch ammo it expands out of a 2 inch rough rider revolver
@@gloriamaletta8667 try a ruger mark 3. Ops they make a mark 4
@@marvinbrewer8637 our lcp ll is picky, so it has never been carried...our mark iv runs anything, but too big to carry...we are revolver people...
At the 5:10 mark, CORRECTION: The cost of $10 for a 50 round box is 20 cents per round not 2 cents as stated in the vid. Still nice job on the vid. I learned a lot.
Awesome video!
No Federal Punch? At least they penetrate deeper than most all the rest 22LR, especially from a handgun barrel. If they don't expand, not a big deal. Many big bore revolver bullets don't expand but they take down big tough game. Large flat nosed sharp-shouldered hard-cast bullets do best for penetration and tearing tissues the entire way. Elmer Keith knew what he was doing designing the semi-wadcutter design, today called the "Keith bullet".
With any firearm, the key is shot placement. Low recoil can make that easier.
More powerful calibers just give you a way to end the threat that requires less precision in placement. In anything less powerful than current 9x19mm, I suggest FMJ projectiles as penetration is more important than expansion to disrupt the critical systems of an attacker.
Remember, the "drop shot" location is the head/"terminal T". This targets the brain/spine interface and prevents the attacker from any voluntary muscle control. Any shot that hits lower on the spine will hinder, but not fully incapacitate instantly.
Second is the heart, as loss of blood flow will lead to incapacity quickly. The Third, with a caveat, is the pelvis. The caveat is that the round must shatter enough of the pelvis to make it structurally incapable of bearing the weight needed to stand or move. This removes the physical ability to change locations rapidly, a "mobility kill" in military parlance. Incapacity will normally follow quickly as that area also houses major blood vessels that may be compromised.
The only reason to shoot another person (with the specific exception of war) is to end the immediate threat they pose to your life or the life of another. Train to do that in the most effective way possible. It is what a responsible member of society does. Just like having a fire extinguisher doesn't mean you start fires, having a weapon doesn't mean you seek to use it. It, like the fire extinguisher, is a tool for a situation we pray doesn't happen.
Be safe my friends. Work to make your world a better place for everyone.
if you don't think .22's are deadly try the Ruger MKII...10+1rds out of that gun so fast you can't even count them...no wonder it's a mob favorite
Too many words use 45 acp sig hollow points for that sweet delicious two shot drop
Then why doesn’t the Seals, Rangers or Spec ops use .22’s?
@@frankpienkosky5688 Slap a silencer on any .22 any you got an urban enviroment murdertool
Well said!
Feeding the TH-cam algorithm. Informative video. Thanks.
My 10/22 ruger with stingers , work every time 😊
Thank you for the informative video. Thoughts: I remember when looking for my first handgun (Ruger .22 pistol), and the gun store owner asked me if it was for self-defense. I was perplexed, being 6'1" 400# thought if I shot someone with a .22 and it didn't stop them I could beat them with it. Speaking with a very gun-knowledgeable police chief that 1) more people are killed every year by a .22 than any other caliber, and 2) the Israeli Mossad uses the .22 for assignations.
.22 and 9mm swap out positions with most killed every year. Call it a tie.
"Assignation" sounds just awful! Shoot me instead, please!
I don't know who wrote the script for this but they have no idea what the hell they're talkin about sounds like they are getting all the information off of a computer screen written by an idiot
Have killed a lotta critters with the rimfires. Have shot a fair number with a 9mm. From what effect I've personally witnessed using both these calibers on blood & bone, I'd have to say the rimfire is probably much under rated for use in defense against people and the 9mm is much exaggerated. Also, I would doubt a hollow point rimfire bullet would be superior to a solid, flat nosed projectile for defense. Power level is so low you probably can't afford to waste much energy with expansion. Don't forget the .22s fabulous advantage; accurate rapid fire shooting. The 9's bounce & blast makes it impossible to compete with either the 22lr or 22mag on this account.
As far as expansion goes with rimfire out of short barrels is this...
The wrong word is used(expansion) the correct word to use is distortion as rimfire bullets both solids and hp's only slightly flatten out. You can see this for yourself just shoot them into a 5 gallon bucket of water.
Great channel!
As ive heard a couple medical professionals state:
"No gunshot wound victim has ever given me a caliber preference."
Federal Punch 22lr should also be a consideration... Maybe even the Winchester Silvertip Power To Defend 22lr, it's less feet per second than the Winchester Varmit expanding rounds that you reviewed, but seems reasonable in performance and typically exceeds 12 inches in gel.
Thanks for the video n' God bless
Issue is the case lengths of the Federal Punch is different, so you can get failures to chamber in semi autos, though in revolvers, Punch is the best 22LR
@@judgementgaming3270yep. My experience with punch is ftf constantly
You failed to mention being hit multiple times by small caliber versus a one hit wonder 9mm or larger.... most people can hit targets with less recoiling than a larger caliber.....!!
the Israelies considered using the AK-22 for special ops....very quiet when suppressed....
Great point! You touched on a point I've argued also-an intruder breaks in, you grab your 9mm, .45, 12 ga, whatever....then spot a target and fire. Now you and everyone else in the house is deafened. You hear yelling...is it another bad guy? A family member? Who knows? 🤷♂ You're DEAF! 😵💫🙉🦻
But I never hear (pun intended) of anyone talking about this subject and what to do if one finds themselves in this position...God forbid. I have a set of hearing protection right next to my pistol. They will go on before I pick up my gun (unless it's impossible of course) if I should need it. You will need to hear before, during, and AFTER if the need arises to discharge your firearm! 💯
but if you need a 22 for self defense if at home shotguns are easy to use and if you use a 22lr for carry is why 2 cent a bullet compared to 20-25 cent a bullet for a 9mm both cant be bought in bulk 1000 9mm a time and 22lr 250 for like $20 last i checked for good name brands some was even listed in the video
@@chikkenbonz Excellent point. I've thought about this a million times.
@@onlyrog5 I've mentioned this point many times on YT. You're the first person to acknowledge I even typed anything. Oh well. What can you do?? 🤷♂️
Anyway thanks much man. I'm glad someone heard it. 🤜🤛
No matter how tough you think you are, a .22 will not bounce off of you.
For the record, I'd like to point out that the deformed love child of a rifle and pistol exists as the Ruger 10/22 charger. Has the extended barrel and options that most hand guns don't and may make .22lr more viable especially with a default 15 round mag. Still not really advisable as a self def gun but it's an option if you have to go there.
Charger is a gimmic gun. To heavy as a pistol, too short as a rifle. Its like breaking out your Herritige .22LR pistol with an 18" barrel.
See the cricket pistols.
as a canadian i have a duty to absolutely despise the charger pistol... since it ruined the 10/22 rifle for canadians. we used to be able to get 100 round drums for the 10/22 rifle here but the charger is marketed to use 10/22 mags so that means all mags above 10 rounds are now prohibited in canada and will land you jail time to use them.
I carry 22 lr Tarsus TX22 due to extreme authritis. I can handle and practice with 22lr. I have switched to Winchester Silvertips after watching multiple gel tests on TH-cam. Really like the expansion and petal break off out of short barrel
Arthritis causes typos friendo. Tarsus instead of Taurus.
@@Jim-wr9iz well Jim, that's correct but in my case it's just plain stupidity. Sorry about that
Hey, how 'bout the CCI stinger, (don't remember the grain) but it's fast as hell, and it's the only thing I can use in my Walther P22, that won't stove-pipe?! Stingers, kick some ASS!
I can attest to the fact that bullet modification of hollow points works like magic once you find the right depth and width for the hollow point. Fragmentation does in fact happen, just in miniature fashion.
Thanks!
Just a quick note on the CCI ammo, one of my favorites. 10 bucks for 50 rounds is correct, however that is actually 20 cents a round. GREAT video though!
I had to rewind to hear that again. Must be a public school graduate.
@5:20...............I'm thinking that a decimal point got lost somewhere in calculator land?!?! 00.20 X 50 = $10.00. That would be TWENTY CENTS EACH, not two cent, but they do go BANG damn near every time!!
I have a huge question for anyone what is or would be my best choice/ opinion for a .22 cal pistol/ .22 cal ammo is the stinger ammo good ??
Thank you !
Thee vast majority of the rounds shown in the video were center fire rounds of varying size and caliber. I had a hard time remembering it was supposed to be about the .22 lr. You obviously dug everything out of your film vaault just to throw a video together.
My favorite .22 round is the 556
I see what you did there 😉
a 5.56 fired with a suppressor....[out of a normal 20 in barrel[....will sound like a.22 rimfire....
With shooting through jugs of water, CCI minimag hollow points, stingers, and Aguila Super Extra all expanded pretty well from being fired from my Keltec P17.
As far as leathiality, 34 years in the Tulsa County Medical Examiners Offices has taught me the .22 LR has killed FAR more men and women than ALL other calibers COMBINED in the HISTORY of firearms! I used to buy "bricks" of 500 rounds of Remington High Speeds for $4! I still have a dozen or so of them from the late '70's in the closet, and 5 or 6 Remington High Speed 1250 round "Bucket O' Bullets" I paid $7.50 for at Skaggs-Albertsons! Of the tens-of-thousand of Rem HS I've fired in my lifetime, I've had two or three misfires (from when I was 4! and I'm 69) Of ten-thousand Federal Match lead bullet loads I bought, I've had two "squib-fires", but the velocity and accuracy are outstanding, as have been the CCI Match ammo (20,000 rounds) in my Browning Challenger IV.
#1 for me: CCI Quick-shok (back then it was called that, and i remember the little 50 round box was red & black, with the words "quick-shok" gradually splitting into 3)
now, it is called CCI Segmented, and the box is a blue paper box with flaps and have no design (unlike the quintessential and ubiquitous Stinger, which comes in hard plastic)
The 2 cartridges are identical, but the segmented have a brass case and stinger have a chrome nickel case. The segmented slug is actually 3 pieces of lead molded into a hollow-point bullet and separates on impact. The stinger slug is a single piece of lead molded into a hollow-point bullet (Im not going lie though, i remember firing both out of a walther p22 and the Stinger produce a bigger blast at the muzzle and have a slightly stronger recoil force. that all translate to power! Still, the segmented have no problem putting holes into steel pans and 2x4s. Thats enough power to penetrate and break bones, and those 3 little triangle lead slugs peeling back and doing backflips inside someone's organs is lethal)
Yeah I definitely remember the original quick shoks and even used them squirrel hunting in past but the stingers are basically the fastest and reliable 22lr rounds on the market and have been a long time and utilize a lighter 32gr bullet if I remember correctly and actually uses a slightly longer case than all others to utilize more powder behind that lighter than usual bullet and claim 1,640fps compared to most at 1,400fps or less but there really isn't a more reliable or better round on the market in my opinion and I have tons of experience with them as well as others through the years. Aquila makes one that's supposed to be faster with like a 28gr bullet and the longer case like the stingers that I have also used but just don't seem to be as reliable or accurate in my opinion.
You hit the nail right on the head! Perfect video and stats! Great job. Just know that Remington 22 LR suck ass in a semi auto anything! Federal and CCI is all we use!
Congratulations buddy on that 4.4 mile bulls eye. What a shot. Every body and their brother will be putting rounds down range like crazy trying to put two bullseyes with just two back to back shots.
It's not always about velocities and foot pounds of force.
If your gonna carry a 22lr, you've got to learn shot placement! And if you have to know if those weak spots are open! A 22lr can be very effective!
Ankles usually aren't bulletproof
Accurate shot placement would be valuable no matter what caliber you choose.
If your going to carry a 22 , that keltec mag seems like the way to go
Bullet placement
How about Federal's 45 gr. .22 WMR Punch ammo?
Also optimized for short barreled handguns, to facilitate full expansion of their hollow point projectiles.
I remember I bought lots of the 50 rds Aguila .22lr lead ($2.50) and hollow point copper rounds for $5.00! Bought so many, don’t regret it.
Federal Punch 22 WMR. Along with Gold Dots and Critical Defense, these all work well. I shot all three out of my Taurus 942 (8 shot) snub nose revolver last weekend. They all expand well, splitting gallon jugs of water while still penetrating deeply. They also shot reasonably close to point of aim at 10 yards or so distance. These are the only loads to consider for 22 magnum for self defense.
You realize many of the federal 22 mag rounds are manufactured by CCI
a 22lr round is usually deadly accurate,i say it this,way,if you hit your target you win,if its a man who got hit,he's got to deal with that,never shot a man,but most men get hit,they will back away or run for medical,i've seen a guy shot with a 22lr playing around with a junk gun i told him to lose in the river or drop it in concrete,it was worthless,nonetheless he fooled around with it till it went off thru his arm and on to the hospital he went,lost a lot of blood and needed a 3 day stay in the hospital,now how powerful is a 22lr, i have the first design black griffin RUGER MARK 1 its so accurate its ridiculous,i've had it since 1973 it was made in 1958 and i'll never rid myself of it,killed many squirrels and rabbits with it,22 is here to stay
“Shoot me it’s only a 22”, said no criminal ever.
Curious of the viewer's opinion of the Keltec P-30 in gun form or carbine format? I love having 30 rounds PER MAG.... ?
I had a lieutenant that carried a Smith Wesson 422 short barrel loaded with 11 stingers for his off duty carry. I carry a North American arms loaded with them as my 2nd to back up a 38 Smith Wesson or Ruger LCP 380 off duty.
remember a training film we saw once...big, burly state trooper dealing with a little meek seemingly docile black guy....who suddenly pulled out a mini that the trooper had missed and shot him under the arm just above his vest....he went down and died shortly thereafter....used to practice sneaking a mini through the metal detector while on the night shift....actually managed to do it a couple of times....food for thought....
Years of hunting jack rabbit for sport I found all .22 are deadly but my favorite was the Remington yellow jacket
both lethal.🥶
I want to buy the chiappa little badger gun for hunting but I don't know in which version to get it 22lr or 22wmr or 17hmr. Can you tell me?