Cutting edge, y'all are schooling me...tech is moving faster than me these days. Please consider making a video that breaks AOI tech down to applesauce for older people. This is interesting because I can't hear well from ear issues as a kid not from oldness, so I'm fussy about audio because of that and sound quality. Audio is equally as important as visuals. You both speak well on podcast, I will click away from annoying voices to. THANKS ... 👍🏻 Great job😊
I appreciate the kind words, and am planning to make a few videos simplifying the discussion once I get back from CEDIA, with a couple of experts, but I'm going to build the content into videos, more like the lighting ones I've done, so I can clarify and add some additional images and animations to help explain. Thanks for watching, and please subscribe if you didn't already.
Thanks JG. This is one of my new favorite discussions because it's been a standard for more than a decade, and yet residential manufacturers have been slow to adopt new technology for us. I can't wait until I get all of my surround systems built, so I can demonstrate to everyone the benefits of one processor running multiple systems, as well as a whole home audio system. Please subscribe if you haven't already, and make sure you jump into my latest contes, where I'm giving away a trip to CEDIA, along with a VIP experience, that will be like nothing else.
No. Your were quite right in your assumption and answer. I just like the idea of doing away the gazillion cables. Here is a processor for 6K (Emotiva RMC 1+) and I was hoping to find a amp for the same or little less. And I'm on Anthonys band wagon.
Glad I was on target, and no doubt on getting rid of all the XLR cables. I did some quick research, and I don’t see anything mentioned in the RMC1+ that says it has AES67 or Dante available to it. This would be a requirement, as you need this protocol on both ends to make it work. Point me to something if you’ve seen this, and I’m happy to help verify it for you. I was working during CEDIA, so didn’t get a chance to see the product in person, but it’s an expensive product so let’s just make sure it does everything you want! 😉
Appreciate the watch and comment. It’s crazy that a platform as well developed as this hasn’t gotten much more inclusion before now, but that seems to be changing. Grimani Systems, StormAudio, Audio Control, JBL, Trinnov, Origin, the list is really starting to grow this year so I expect to see more product in the next 12-24 months as manufacturers sort out licensing and board/hardware and software changes.
Are we using PoE here or transferring audio signals over Ethernet cables? Does this require all speakers to be powered? Complex crossovers? How would this look to someone today who's using speaker wire and XLR cables to connect his pre-pro to his amp? This video went straight into talking about what's coming, but not what it does, so I was left (and still am) completely confused 20 minutes into the video. Even with Anthony's picture of "this to this", I'm still thinking to myself "my system doesn't look like that. I don't know what's changing". It seems like Anthony's systems all have a bunch of external amps that run speaker wire to speakers. But how does this remove ground hum? My only thought is that we use parallel port connections from Storm and Trinnov pre-pros into amps, and that those connections are called AES. So maybe that's what's being converted to AES67 or Dante. I spent time looking these up online and couldn't figure out what they were relative to home theater. Maybe by the 1 hour mark, I'll have all these answers, but I wanted to give feedback on how I'm feeling 20 minutes in as someone who considers himself "in the know" on home theater.
Source and amplifier would need to be AES67. Effectively one Ethernet cable out of the processor, into a network switch, and then an Ethernet cable from the network switch to the amplifier or amplified speaker which could be in the rack, or another room. No XLR cables at all, and the amps could be located in the same place, or different rooms depending on the setup. Ethernet cable is less expensive and easier to build in most situations, and the cable isn’t required to be grounded which is how it cleans up ground loops, because you don’t have different cycles from different products being grounded differently in an analog connection. Everything stays digital from source all the way until the amplifier, and then technically whether its rack mounted or an amplified speaker, you typically have some sort of speaker cable whether that’s a few inches or several feet. We do discuss PoE and why although it’s possible for low power commercial speakers, you will never really get high performance theater speakers because it just requires more than what can be supplied by a PoE switch. Hope that helps.
Here’s what I think you’re asking, but let me know if I misunderstood. There are a few “AES” designations to pay attention to. For the purposes of send multi-channel high-res audio, 2-way communication, etc, we are discussing AES67, which is what you’d be looking for. It can be used on a 16/24/32 processor, the limit to the channel assignments really just comes to a limit in the processor. My StormAudio processor as an example has 32 AoIP outputs, which I can use in multiple configurations or setups in multiple rooms. Really the only constraint is having Ethernet cables connected over the network. Connections are as simple as an AES67 Ethernet port from the processor, source, etc. into a network switch, and then an Ethernet cable from the switch to the AES67 port on the back of you amplifier of amplified speaker. Then after discovering them, you can configure them however you want. Does that answer the question? Either way let me know and have a Happy Thanksgiving.
Hey Greg, thanks for the comment. I'm looking forward to doing another discussion on networked audio soon to expand the conversation further. Happy to find out for you. I'm guessing that Anthony put in Powersoft amps with his speakers? Many of those can have the card updated for AES67 or Dante if not already in there. Now, if it's already run and doesn't have hum I'd be hesitant to change out a newer system, but it can always be looked at.
@@faqnatics All good hear. There is the slight hum when the room is powered off but you hear zero of that when playing content and more than thrilled with what we have as an end product. This was just a question out of curiosity. I joked with Trevor last year that I just missed the cutoff to do the Evo option as we put in the ISP MK3 into my space in July just before that unit came out. We are 110% satisfied here.
Are there any traditional amps that can take a cat cable in and then usual channel speak cables out. And can or would you name such brands for consideration. Or must we do Antony's route with 4 or five digital amps.
Happy to help. Yes there are a variety of quality amps that use the AES67 and Dante input, and then out as regular speaker cable. @powersoft, @Pro Audio Technology, and @audiocontrol are two that I am looking at right now because they are well respected as pretty bulletproof, and also have great DSP so depending on the capabilities of your Processor, you can just use it to decode the signal, and then handle DSP in the amplifier. I plan to do some reviews on these once I have my system built this summer. My goal is to objectively review A/B class amps vs. D class amps, and the various calibration software options. Plus better understand the actual benefits between amps at various price points, to see if we can find a few solid winners in the various price bands. So for the moment, I can recommend those three as commercial grade, but ready for residential. I believe crown has some options as well, so I need to dig into that as well. Trying to get beyond the marketing hype and into practical experience so I can share, but this for this reason, upgrade to this when you want better resolution or better calibration features. Storm is the only processor I know that offers full Atmos output in AES67 and Dante, but I know others were prepping to launch product after CEDIA as well. Appreciate the comment and be sure to like and subscribe so I can get the various manufacturers to let me borrow product for testing!
@ yeah, StormAudio has multiple processors and no amplifier. Some of that just comes from time working on various projects, eventually the two will marry up with both a processor and amp. In the meantime, I’ve often seen people buying a different processor with Emotiva amps, so perhaps they did the amp first because they felt the other commercial brands might use them with their processors. The other thing that runs counter to Emotiva’s decision, but works with Storm’s, is that many commercial speakers in this category are amplified, so they may need a processor, but not the amp. My Theory Audio setup I’m working on now, works that way. It needs a processor for decoding formats, but the amps are built specific for the speaker lines Theory Audio designs. I will have to check out the Emotiva though. The demo theater I’ll be building shortly is designed to test differences between A/B amps, class D, amps, and AES/Dante amps; as well as processors, front stage speakers, video processors, and projectors.
@@TMDude815 even with Anthony’s route, he doesn’t know before you buy, how many speakers you are buying, plus many of his speakers are tri-amplified, so the single amp for a single speaker route (except for subwoofers) makes sense. If you were planning for it though, brands like PowerSoft also have much larger amplifiers designed to handle higher speaker counts, or even more if they don’t have 3-way wiring. I’d check out PowerSoft , Lea Professional, on the true commercial quality side, and Crown makes some quality and more affordable solutions for AES as well. Or I just went with Theory Audio in my family room setup. A bit more, but a well respected setup with a matched amplifier and speaker, DSP control, etc. that can make it easier for setup, since the amplifiers knows exactly how to calibrate for those speakers, and then you additionally have room correction DSP as well. Let me know if I can help you in any of those routes. I don’t sell anything, but I know people everywhere, so always happy to reach out and find a reputable dealer that can help you make the right decision, as well as possibly a price break. 😉
Cutting edge, y'all are schooling me...tech is moving faster than me these days. Please consider making a video that breaks AOI tech down to applesauce for older people. This is interesting because I can't hear well from ear issues as a kid not from oldness, so I'm fussy about audio because of that and sound quality. Audio is equally as important as visuals. You both speak well on podcast, I will click away from annoying voices to. THANKS ... 👍🏻 Great job😊
I appreciate the kind words, and am planning to make a few videos simplifying the discussion once I get back from CEDIA, with a couple of experts, but I'm going to build the content into videos, more like the lighting ones I've done, so I can clarify and add some additional images and animations to help explain.
Thanks for watching, and please subscribe if you didn't already.
Great video!
Thanks JG. This is one of my new favorite discussions because it's been a standard for more than a decade, and yet residential manufacturers have been slow to adopt new technology for us. I can't wait until I get all of my surround systems built, so I can demonstrate to everyone the benefits of one processor running multiple systems, as well as a whole home audio system.
Please subscribe if you haven't already, and make sure you jump into my latest contes, where I'm giving away a trip to CEDIA, along with a VIP experience, that will be like nothing else.
No. Your were quite right in your assumption and answer.
I just like the idea of doing away the gazillion cables.
Here is a processor for 6K (Emotiva RMC 1+) and I was hoping to find a amp for the same or little less. And I'm on Anthonys band wagon.
Glad I was on target, and no doubt on getting rid of all the XLR cables. I did some quick research, and I don’t see anything mentioned in the RMC1+ that says it has AES67 or Dante available to it. This would be a requirement, as you need this protocol on both ends to make it work.
Point me to something if you’ve seen this, and I’m happy to help verify it for you. I was working during CEDIA, so didn’t get a chance to see the product in person, but it’s an expensive product so let’s just make sure it does everything you want! 😉
Hey I got the notification for this episode unlike the last 2. Great education
Glad to hear it, and appreciate the comment.
awesome❤
Thanks, and good luck. Make sure you get the extra entries to increase your chances. They are all great channels and fun ways to get more entries.
Great info!
Appreciate the watch and comment. It’s crazy that a platform as well developed as this hasn’t gotten much more inclusion before now, but that seems to be changing. Grimani Systems, StormAudio, Audio Control, JBL, Trinnov, Origin, the list is really starting to grow this year so I expect to see more product in the next 12-24 months as manufacturers sort out licensing and board/hardware and software changes.
Are we using PoE here or transferring audio signals over Ethernet cables? Does this require all speakers to be powered? Complex crossovers?
How would this look to someone today who's using speaker wire and XLR cables to connect his pre-pro to his amp?
This video went straight into talking about what's coming, but not what it does, so I was left (and still am) completely confused 20 minutes into the video. Even with Anthony's picture of "this to this", I'm still thinking to myself "my system doesn't look like that. I don't know what's changing". It seems like Anthony's systems all have a bunch of external amps that run speaker wire to speakers. But how does this remove ground hum?
My only thought is that we use parallel port connections from Storm and Trinnov pre-pros into amps, and that those connections are called AES. So maybe that's what's being converted to AES67 or Dante. I spent time looking these up online and couldn't figure out what they were relative to home theater.
Maybe by the 1 hour mark, I'll have all these answers, but I wanted to give feedback on how I'm feeling 20 minutes in as someone who considers himself "in the know" on home theater.
Source and amplifier would need to be AES67. Effectively one Ethernet cable out of the processor, into a network switch, and then an Ethernet cable from the network switch to the amplifier or amplified speaker which could be in the rack, or another room. No XLR cables at all, and the amps could be located in the same place, or different rooms depending on the setup.
Ethernet cable is less expensive and easier to build in most situations, and the cable isn’t required to be grounded which is how it cleans up ground loops, because you don’t have different cycles from different products being grounded differently in an analog connection. Everything stays digital from source all the way until the amplifier, and then technically whether its rack mounted or an amplified speaker, you typically have some sort of speaker cable whether that’s a few inches or several feet.
We do discuss PoE and why although it’s possible for low power commercial speakers, you will never really get high performance theater speakers because it just requires more than what can be supplied by a PoE switch.
Hope that helps.
Anthony....does the AES/ dante connection have to be 16/24/32 specific for use or it doesn't matter
Here’s what I think you’re asking, but let me know if I misunderstood.
There are a few “AES” designations to pay attention to. For the purposes of send multi-channel high-res audio, 2-way communication, etc, we are discussing AES67, which is what you’d be looking for.
It can be used on a 16/24/32 processor, the limit to the channel assignments really just comes to a limit in the processor. My StormAudio processor as an example has 32 AoIP outputs, which I can use in multiple configurations or setups in multiple rooms. Really the only constraint is having Ethernet cables connected over the network.
Connections are as simple as an AES67 Ethernet port from the processor, source, etc. into a network switch, and then an Ethernet cable from the switch to the AES67 port on the back of you amplifier of amplified speaker. Then after discovering them, you can configure them however you want.
Does that answer the question? Either way let me know and have a Happy Thanksgiving.
Saw this at CEDIA and was very eye opening - Curious how difficult this would be to swap out for an existing analog theater. Good presentation!
Hey Greg, thanks for the comment. I'm looking forward to doing another discussion on networked audio soon to expand the conversation further.
Happy to find out for you. I'm guessing that Anthony put in Powersoft amps with his speakers? Many of those can have the card updated for AES67 or Dante if not already in there. Now, if it's already run and doesn't have hum I'd be hesitant to change out a newer system, but it can always be looked at.
@@faqnatics All good hear. There is the slight hum when the room is powered off but you hear zero of that when playing content and more than thrilled with what we have as an end product. This was just a question out of curiosity. I joked with Trevor last year that I just missed the cutoff to do the Evo option as we put in the ISP MK3 into my space in July just before that unit came out. We are 110% satisfied here.
Are there any traditional amps that can take a cat cable in and then usual channel speak cables out. And can or would you name such brands for consideration.
Or must we do Antony's route with 4 or five digital amps.
Happy to help. Yes there are a variety of quality amps that use the AES67 and Dante input, and then out as regular speaker cable.
@powersoft, @Pro Audio Technology, and @audiocontrol are two that I am looking at right now because they are well respected as pretty bulletproof, and also have great DSP so depending on the capabilities of your Processor, you can just use it to decode the signal, and then handle DSP in the amplifier.
I plan to do some reviews on these once I have my system built this summer. My goal is to objectively review A/B class amps vs. D class amps, and the various calibration software options. Plus better understand the actual benefits between amps at various price points, to see if we can find a few solid winners in the various price bands.
So for the moment, I can recommend those three as commercial grade, but ready for residential. I believe crown has some options as well, so I need to dig into that as well. Trying to get beyond the marketing hype and into practical experience so I can share, but this for this reason, upgrade to this when you want better resolution or better calibration features.
Storm is the only processor I know that offers full Atmos output in AES67 and Dante, but I know others were prepping to launch product after CEDIA as well.
Appreciate the comment and be sure to like and subscribe so I can get the various manufacturers to let me borrow product for testing!
@@faqnatics
I believe the emovita rmc1 has a AES connection....but not their amps....weird... LoL
@ yeah, StormAudio has multiple processors and no amplifier. Some of that just comes from time working on various projects, eventually the two will marry up with both a processor and amp. In the meantime, I’ve often seen people buying a different processor with Emotiva amps, so perhaps they did the amp first because they felt the other commercial brands might use them with their processors.
The other thing that runs counter to Emotiva’s decision, but works with Storm’s, is that many commercial speakers in this category are amplified, so they may need a processor, but not the amp. My Theory Audio setup I’m working on now, works that way. It needs a processor for decoding formats, but the amps are built specific for the speaker lines Theory Audio designs.
I will have to check out the Emotiva though. The demo theater I’ll be building shortly is designed to test differences between A/B amps, class D, amps, and AES/Dante amps; as well as processors, front stage speakers, video processors, and projectors.
@@TMDude815 even with Anthony’s route, he doesn’t know before you buy, how many speakers you are buying, plus many of his speakers are tri-amplified, so the single amp for a single speaker route (except for subwoofers) makes sense.
If you were planning for it though, brands like PowerSoft also have much larger amplifiers designed to handle higher speaker counts, or even more if they don’t have 3-way wiring.
I’d check out PowerSoft , Lea Professional, on the true commercial quality side, and Crown makes some quality and more affordable solutions for AES as well. Or I just went with Theory Audio in my family room setup. A bit more, but a well respected setup with a matched amplifier and speaker, DSP control, etc. that can make it easier for setup, since the amplifiers knows exactly how to calibrate for those speakers, and then you additionally have room correction DSP as well.
Let me know if I can help you in any of those routes. I don’t sell anything, but I know people everywhere, so always happy to reach out and find a reputable dealer that can help you make the right decision, as well as possibly a price break. 😉