It was good too see ya, and see that you appear well and health. Just over ten years ago I was beginning to write and I sought TH-cam and there you was K.M. Weiland. Thanks for being there.
There's nothing wrong with that number, so long as each one is serving a unique purpose in the narrative, with their own agendas, perspectives, and characteristics. Otherwise, you will need to make cuts &/or combinations in order to have a more focused story with deeper, more complex characters.
How ironic. A few days ago I posted a review of a (kindle) romance novel I'd just read. I really liked the premise and the two main romantic characters, but the story quickly turned into a mind-boggling quagmire of characters--I counted 45!--with half of them constantly present. I began to feel the author was packing characters as a way of introducing them as part of a hometown series. I checked her book listings and that's exactly what she did as all the secondary characters (family) had their own books. It was overwhelming. I noted that if all those extraneous characters and their scenes which did little to nothing toward moving the story forward were removed, what was left? Mostly the love (sex) scenes between the couple the story was supposed to be about. At close to the halfway mark I had to start skimming to try and finish it. The author is a good writer with a fresh voice, but I suspect she didn't know how to develop a true relationship between the main romantic couple so filled up major gaps with other people.
Well said. The other thing I might add, about how many characters to have in the first couple of chapters, is that it depends on chapter size, particularly the number of scenes in a chapter. I think that it’s ok to introduce 2 or 3 per scene, but that’s a gut reaction and something you’d have to pare down.
Another approach to making a large cast of unique characters is to look at the Meyers-Briggs diagram for personality types. Even if you disagree with the psychological validity of those 16 archetypes, they are useful for creating characters that have distinct voices which each have their own purposes, points of view, and reactions to stimuli. This system is not as focused as the Enneagram, but it is more varied and nuanced, which may be beneficial for very large casts.
I tried to use MBTI/socionics for my first book... making 16 characters, and I think it didn't turn out as well as I meant. Current book, Murder Upon Mercury, has an ENFP protagonist, and ESTJ villain. Other characters are an INTP, ISFJ, ISFP, and a few others that aren't prevalent being ESFJ and ISTJ.
Speaking of characters, I've been meaning to ask you for your opinion (or perhaps technique) on this: character naming. I always thought everything can be our means of expression, and character names could and should mean something. A friend of mine oposes this completely and picks random names off the phonebook. He thinks naming a character something relevant or specific is as bad as giving them Snow White dwarfs' names (Sleepy, Bashful, etc). Of course that's an extreme example and I wouldn't go that far, but I think it's important to give characters a meaningful name, even if only I know the meaning. Otherwise it's a wasted opportunity for expression, I feel like leaving something like that to chance isn't something a creative person would want.
I have news for your friend - names already have meanings. Let's say you pick "James" out of the phone book - what are the various meanings for that name? What will your readers think of when they see that name? James Earl Jones? James Cameron? LeBron James? The Biblical meaning "supplanter" or "replacer"? King James? That guy down the street who parks his car in the yard? James Bond? The name will have connotations that can work for or against your story. It's absolutely an opportunity for expression, and I'm a firm believer in spending time developing the names of your main characters. It makes a big difference in their voice, how they're perceived by the other characters, as well as the first impressions of the reader. Does the name fit the character's personality? Did their parents give them a name that's "too big" for them, or "too small"? If your character is named James, your reader might not connect "supplanter" or "replacer" as a meaning, but what if that's his character flaw? You've planted a subconscious seed in their mind, and given yourself a reminder as you write who this character is.
I'm reminded of the scene in Pulp Fiction between Butch and Esmarelda, where Bruce Willis asserts that "our names don't mean anything"; how wrong he is.
The two most important things are credibility and reader immersion. Will the names of your characters make the reader believe they're real? Will the reader "forget" that this is a fictional story? Will they become completely immersed in the characters and the story, or will they constantly see the puppeteer behind the puppet?
This was interesting. My WIP has one main protagonist but 15 other characters that are part of her extended family, plus a few outsiders that are involved briefly. Some are more important than others at any given moment and most are fairly well developed. But as it is a post-apocalyptic story, many do die off. I hope I have developed them sufficiently as needed, and while many are introduced fairly early in chapters one and two, they become more developed as needed for the plot and to show their individual importance to my MC which then helps her growth into the person she needs to be.
Got your email, thanks! Watching now. I am also working on sci-fi, and have several characters. I know what I am doing, but was curious to what you got to say about it! OK, just listened, interesting. I have read a lot of your stuff. I like the writing style of "the novelization" of movies. Movies have several characters. I guess it just depends on your talent to introduce and separate sub plots of characters. Stories would be very short or very long boring without many characters. Look at all the examples of many characters.... like the Hobbit, Star Wars, etc. Thanks for the video, I learned a lot.
How about promoting side to main characters within the book? I have a protagonist team of six persons, and who will be going into the final fight isn't pointed out until the climax. And there is an antagonist team looking similar at the beginning, but the real evil guys here get killed early, leaving us wondering what the others have in mind. Meanwhle someone else turns out to be the true villain of the story.
On the other side of this question, when would it generally be too late to introduce a relevant side character? I have one that currently is introduced a while after the midpoint, and it seems like an afterthought: "Oh, yeah, I forgot they were supposed to be a part of this! Surprise! Here they are!" If they are actually important, they should fit in earlier, and if their introduction can wait so long, then they probably aren't as relevant as first thought and can be cut, right?
Thank you for this thoughtful, practical clip. I have a similar situation, in which I'm running two timelines. Each protagonist has their own family members, most of whom are minor and undeveloped. I'm considering not naming many of them--just referring to them as brothers or sisters, but then it becomes almost unnatural to not think of them by name in deep POV. It also seems unnatural to not have brothers and sisters. So far, what I've done is only name a few of them. This is literary fiction that can also fit historical and women's fiction. Any extra suggestions or comments in this situation? Thanks again.
What are these siblings doing within the story to advance the plot? What are they each doing to support your story's themes? To enhance the mood? To affect the main characters? Do they do anything for the story, other than to flesh out the world, because statistically many people have siblings? If the answer is "Nothing", then the solution is clear. A great artistic work is not improved by what can be added, but by what must be removed.
I’d have far less of a problem with the Enneagram if more people openly admitted to treating it just like the D&D alignment system 😂. Because at least for the latter, nobody confuses it for actual science.
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
you are the most generous writer i have met(on youtube), thank you for caring about others like me. . respect to the max!!happiness
It was good too see ya, and see that you appear well and health. Just over ten years ago I was beginning to write and I sought TH-cam and there you was K.M. Weiland. Thanks for being there.
Creating heartwarming characters and an exciting adventure in an immersive environment will tend to keep more readers than cliffhangers.
Here's me with 9 POVs in my novel 😅
There's nothing wrong with that number, so long as each one is serving a unique purpose in the narrative, with their own agendas, perspectives, and characteristics. Otherwise, you will need to make cuts &/or combinations in order to have a more focused story with deeper, more complex characters.
Thank you. I will try and restrain myself. Love and light.
How ironic. A few days ago I posted a review of a (kindle) romance novel I'd just read. I really liked the premise and the two main romantic characters, but the story quickly turned into a mind-boggling quagmire of characters--I counted 45!--with half of them constantly present. I began to feel the author was packing characters as a way of introducing them as part of a hometown series. I checked her book listings and that's exactly what she did as all the secondary characters (family) had their own books. It was overwhelming. I noted that if all those extraneous characters and their scenes which did little to nothing toward moving the story forward were removed, what was left? Mostly the love (sex) scenes between the couple the story was supposed to be about. At close to the halfway mark I had to start skimming to try and finish it. The author is a good writer with a fresh voice, but I suspect she didn't know how to develop a true relationship between the main romantic couple so filled up major gaps with other people.
Well said. The other thing I might add, about how many characters to have in the first couple of chapters, is that it depends on chapter size, particularly the number of scenes in a chapter. I think that it’s ok to introduce 2 or 3 per scene, but that’s a gut reaction and something you’d have to pare down.
Another approach to making a large cast of unique characters is to look at the Meyers-Briggs diagram for personality types. Even if you disagree with the psychological validity of those 16 archetypes, they are useful for creating characters that have distinct voices which each have their own purposes, points of view, and reactions to stimuli. This system is not as focused as the Enneagram, but it is more varied and nuanced, which may be beneficial for very large casts.
I am so happy to have found your channel😍
I tried to use MBTI/socionics for my first book... making 16 characters, and I think it didn't turn out as well as I meant. Current book, Murder Upon Mercury, has an ENFP protagonist, and ESTJ villain. Other characters are an INTP, ISFJ, ISFP, and a few others that aren't prevalent being ESFJ and ISTJ.
Speaking of characters, I've been meaning to ask you for your opinion (or perhaps technique) on this: character naming. I always thought everything can be our means of expression, and character names could and should mean something. A friend of mine oposes this completely and picks random names off the phonebook. He thinks naming a character something relevant or specific is as bad as giving them Snow White dwarfs' names (Sleepy, Bashful, etc). Of course that's an extreme example and I wouldn't go that far, but I think it's important to give characters a meaningful name, even if only I know the meaning. Otherwise it's a wasted opportunity for expression, I feel like leaving something like that to chance isn't something a creative person would want.
I have news for your friend - names already have meanings. Let's say you pick "James" out of the phone book - what are the various meanings for that name? What will your readers think of when they see that name? James Earl Jones? James Cameron? LeBron James? The Biblical meaning "supplanter" or "replacer"? King James? That guy down the street who parks his car in the yard? James Bond? The name will have connotations that can work for or against your story. It's absolutely an opportunity for expression, and I'm a firm believer in spending time developing the names of your main characters. It makes a big difference in their voice, how they're perceived by the other characters, as well as the first impressions of the reader. Does the name fit the character's personality? Did their parents give them a name that's "too big" for them, or "too small"? If your character is named James, your reader might not connect "supplanter" or "replacer" as a meaning, but what if that's his character flaw? You've planted a subconscious seed in their mind, and given yourself a reminder as you write who this character is.
I'm reminded of the scene in Pulp Fiction between Butch and Esmarelda, where Bruce Willis asserts that "our names don't mean anything"; how wrong he is.
The two most important things are credibility and reader immersion. Will the names of your characters make the reader believe they're real? Will the reader "forget" that this is a fictional story? Will they become completely immersed in the characters and the story, or will they constantly see the puppeteer behind the puppet?
I'd be interested to hear how you would introduce characters when the protagonist lives among them and already knows all of them except one?
This was interesting. My WIP has one main protagonist but 15 other characters that are part of her extended family, plus a few outsiders that are involved briefly. Some are more important than others at any given moment and most are fairly well developed. But as it is a post-apocalyptic story, many do die off. I hope I have developed them sufficiently as needed, and while many are introduced fairly early in chapters one and two, they become more developed as needed for the plot and to show their individual importance to my MC which then helps her growth into the person she needs to be.
Got your email, thanks! Watching now. I am also working on sci-fi, and have several characters. I know what I am doing, but was curious to what you got to say about it! OK, just listened, interesting. I have read a lot of your stuff. I like the writing style of "the novelization" of movies. Movies have several characters. I guess it just depends on your talent to introduce and separate sub plots of characters. Stories would be very short or very long boring without many characters. Look at all the examples of many characters.... like the Hobbit, Star Wars, etc. Thanks for the video, I learned a lot.
D&D reference from Katy! Nerd alert! 😅 Great video, as always.
Thanks for this. My characters all come out of action to move the story forward as needed. BTW, you look so pretty in video!
I'm PRETTY sure that she doesn't appreciate her teachings being reduced to "you're PRETTY".
How about promoting side to main characters within the book? I have a protagonist team of six persons, and who will be going into the final fight isn't pointed out until the climax. And there is an antagonist team looking similar at the beginning, but the real evil guys here get killed early, leaving us wondering what the others have in mind. Meanwhle someone else turns out to be the true villain of the story.
Lovely KM❤
On the other side of this question, when would it generally be too late to introduce a relevant side character? I have one that currently is introduced a while after the midpoint, and it seems like an afterthought: "Oh, yeah, I forgot they were supposed to be a part of this! Surprise! Here they are!" If they are actually important, they should fit in earlier, and if their introduction can wait so long, then they probably aren't as relevant as first thought and can be cut, right?
Thank you for this thoughtful, practical clip. I have a similar situation, in which I'm running two timelines. Each protagonist has their own family members, most of whom are minor and undeveloped. I'm considering not naming many of them--just referring to them as brothers or sisters, but then it becomes almost unnatural to not think of them by name in deep POV. It also seems unnatural to not have brothers and sisters. So far, what I've done is only name a few of them. This is literary fiction that can also fit historical and women's fiction. Any extra suggestions or comments in this situation? Thanks again.
What are these siblings doing within the story to advance the plot? What are they each doing to support your story's themes? To enhance the mood? To affect the main characters?
Do they do anything for the story, other than to flesh out the world, because statistically many people have siblings? If the answer is "Nothing", then the solution is clear. A great artistic work is not improved by what can be added, but by what must be removed.
Very helpful ma'am🎉
The Wheel of Time has a huge number of characters - more than any other book series as far as I know - and yet somehow it worked ;) Loved it!
I’d have far less of a problem with the Enneagram if more people openly admitted to treating it just like the D&D alignment system 😂. Because at least for the latter, nobody confuses it for actual science.
What if it's for a war with a God like being