LISTEN: Government lawyer says Trump organizing alternate electors was ‘campaign conduct’
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 เม.ย. 2024
- As the nation's highest court heard arguments in Trump v. United States on Thursday, Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan asked government lawyer Michael Dreeben which actions by former President Donald Trump were in an official capacity and which were not.
Dreeben said he disagreed with Trump’s lawyers in most cases, and that the actions the president took to allegedly overturn the 2020 election were as a private citizen and were part of his campaign.
“Seeking as a candidate to oust the lawful winner of the election and have one self-certified with private actors is a private scheme to achieve a private end, and many of the co-conspirators alleged in the indictment are private,” Dreeben said.
Some actions were in an official capacity, Dreeben argued, such as conversations between Trump and Department of Justice officials, as outlined in the federal indictment against the former president.
“For an incumbent president to then use his presidential powers to try and enhance the likelihood that it succeeds makes the crime, in our view, worse," Dreeben said.
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They should have never even entertained this
Democrats did it in Hawaii, in the Presidential Election of 1960! NOTHING happened to them!
No one is above the law.
Yes not even Biden!
What are you talking about? People skirt above the law daily. 🥱
@@timothykresko1984 only democrats, you ever see a democrat get indicted for there corruption? Only republicans. Republicans are controlled opposition. Communism rite in ur face and you don’t see it 😂😂😂
Except for the criminal son of Biden.
Hunter Biden is. As a Navy Reserve officer he failed a drug test. He got a administrative discharge when others would get a dishonorable discharge. Hunter is the Fortunate Son CCR talked about.
When the act is self-serving, it's non-official, purely to illegitimately maintain oneself in power. No president should have immunity from prosecution on this crime.
lol he does, u want a tissue…or you can move to other countries
@@anthonydewayne712 Bot
Who did that?
@@danielstadden1149 lol he does, u want a tissue…or you can move to other countries…..hahaha
@neal5068 This losing presidential candidate wanted to be the winner. He resorted to making calls asking for more votes so that he'll be declared as the winner. This self-serving misconduct was clearly recorded.
The court is on trial, whatever happens will reflect on how history looks at them. Its time to end lifetime appointments, and implement TERM LIMITS
why not just say you have to be a Democrat to be a Justice. That would be democracy in action!
@@Hank520Tube Since I am NOT a Democrat, it wouldn't be something I would say.
Need a non-partisan statutory authority to vet and select judges, rather than having this sort of manipulation to get an irredeemably corrupt and compromised highest court.
@@4014Thugsy : thank you thugsy, and I am a Democrat.
Dude it might be time to end the entire system.
My question is,
“Is there sufficient Constitutional framework to protect America from developing Monarchy and what must further be done to prevent this?”
Balance the Supreme Court. 5-5. Pull a name to see which justice is eliminated from a/the case. End up with 5-4 randomly red or blue for every case. More fair? No packing.
Or better yet, choose 20 justices and have 2 sets of 10 justices and speed up the court.
@@justsayin8734 Get rid of the guy who didn't speak for decades and whose wife is a political operative, and get rid of BeerBoy too.
President Biden has had over 3yrs to expand the supreme court, but chose to "reach across the isle's" instead. It's congress who must get this done, and a two third super majority is needed to accomplish this. Elections matter, and 2024 may well be your last chance
Hold leaders accountable for their criminal actions. Throw Trump in prison, as a start... ;)
Nobody is above the law, especially a wannabe tin-pot dictator who tried to overthrow/subvert a lawful election, and sicked an angry mob on the capitol building to prevent the lawful transfer of power to his lawfully elected successor.
Yes we vote out biden amd his admin and go back to normal
I TRULY HOPE THAT THESE JUDGES DO THE RIGHT THING FOR OUR DEMOCRACY FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE WHOLE WORLD 🌎 IS WATCHING
Your comment is political
@@jerrypeal653 Is defending democracy political or patriotic? I say patriot is. I hope the SC will not allow the subversion of elections as that would be the end of democracy and the rise of a dictator.
sadly JUSTICES GORSUCH THOMAS ALITO ROBERTS KAVENAUGH ARE GOING TO INTRODUCE DELAYS. WE MUST WORK ON INCREASING THE COURT AND TERM LIMITS RETRO ACTIVE.........................
Raymond simply put your a moron... Stop with the democracy crap.. We had trump for 4 years democracy was fine.... I would say a sitting President using all his top law enforcement to remove the leading CANDIdate to become the next President of the United States Is against the very structures of democracy. Don't you think.😅.. You idiot it's a so easy to break down With your nonsense.
Besides we're not a democracy we are a constitutional representative republic..🇺🇸..
@@jerrypeal653 Of course it is, however, the court should follow the constitution and not create a dictator-like immunity for app future presidents with no basis in the constitution
No one is above the law!
That's right.......The Court is NOT above Constitutional Law!
You people have no idea what kind of Law is being practiced in America.
Your hatred towards President Trump has clearly clouded your vision!
The type of Law Practiced is Maritime Admiralty Law/The Law of The High Seas.
That type of Law is The most vile Law throughout the entire planet!
That's right.......The Court is NOT above Constitutional Law!
You people have no idea what kind of Law is being practiced in America.
Your hatred towards President Trump has clearly clouded your vision!
The type of Law Practiced is Maritime Admiralty Law/The Law of The High Seas.
That type of Law is The most vile Law throughout the entire planet!
eXCEPT DUMPOCRAPS!
Except hundreds daily 🥱
Just wait until the Supreme Court grants him immunity
The government's position has merit. Trump's lawyers arguing for his immunity perhaps do not realize that their success would allow Biden to do ANYTHING HE WANTS against Trump as soon as the decision is made.
No, they want a speical exemption for DJT but not for Biden or anyone else.
There has to be some immunity, or presidents will be in court all the time
Trump wants immunity so that he can, in case God forbid he gets elected, get revenge on his adversaries.
You forget if Trump doesn't have immunity then Biden can be charged for murder of the 14 military personal in Afghanistan because it was his decision that caused those death
That’s the thing Trump is NOT the president 🤷🏾
The Roberts Court is just getting worse and worse, disgraceful.
_ seems roberts is channeling 'oral' - so wtfudge is that all about !?!
I cannot believe these justices are even entertaining this idea. This is how monstrous autocrats come into power.
So is this really a question? Think I will just go away with the rest of the world and giggle about the foolishness that sucks in the Supreme Court of America!
True. They are bending over backwards to throw Trump a lifeline.
Disgusting as it is
How does a court “not care about the case in front of them”. Historically egotistical, political Supreme Court.
They have a different agenda...the first step is delay, so they sat on their hands for two months to start, and after wasting this time they are thinking about sending it back to a lower court for a bit and then back to the extreme court.
The coup attempt had multiple threads, and this one does too.
Because its not about the current case, but the linits of the Constitution. The SCOUTS doesn't decide cases, it sets precedent.
@@springbloom5940 they decide cases based on what is in front of them not what they want to make up. There is no standing for them to do that. And this court does not care about precedent so it seems ironic they act holier than thou creating it.
@@adamtango9248
🤦🏽♀️
Because they are paid to set their biases and emotion aside and use logic. Something a large percentage of Americans can’t do.
The devil is working overtime 😢
He sure is in a lot of courts at the moment
You are right the Democrats are all Evil!
Yeah he's in the White House Joe Biden you mean
"Trump v. United States" .. really says it all.
I really hope the "United States" wins. Otherwise, the United States loses.
That is an absurd immunity claim
Haha...see you in November...and you might want to actually read the law in place Bubba...
Why isn't a distinction being made about committing legal acts versus illegal acts and anything illegal he is not immune from. The Supreme Court is deliberately making this more difficult than it needs to be and it appears the DOJ is helping them.
How many times do you have to say "I don't want to talk about this case" before you make it clear that everything you say is about this case? 🤔😒
Because there are no other examples of presidential fuckery on this level than Trump. Biden, Obama, Clinton, Bushes, Roosevelt, none have committed the level of fuckery Trump has during his tenure.
@@Blackronin357are you a jamaican? Ur use of “fuckery” made me smile
In other words, The defense says you have to wait until a coo is successful before you can indict and convict. The real answer is in our hands! Will we vote in someone who will end our democracy??? I'm not convinced that we won't!
Me neither
They have cheated for years
I was wondering when we were going to hear from the government other than the drumpf’s lawyer.
FROM FRANCE: World Democracy in the hands of the Supreme Court... some of whose members do not inspire confidence. Will they be courageous, simply honest?
Let’s hope they will show courage and do the right thing.
I do think the USA political system should be looked at , it is not the best.
The USA has the worst possible model of democracy. The Westminster system has faults but there is no Supreme Court system able to subvert the law.
It seems part of our system is dependent upon Honor, and many citizens have none.
No, someone can't campaign for office and organize alternate electors. The campaigner has one shot to assume office, They win or they lose. If appropriate they congratulate the winner and accept defeat. If they win, they plan their inauguration.
That’s how it worked from 1801 until 2021…
With an election that is suspicious its hard to accept. This time round Trump 2024!!!!
@@RedStl Not according to Hillary
How did that work out for Al, Mr. Hockey Stick, Gore?
@@IBenZik he went to the Supreme Court and lost.. and then he went away.
Should it be legal to impersonate a sheriff, or a mayor, or some other elected position to get something for yourself? No.
If Trump a former President gets presidential immunity, then all former Presidents should get Presidential Immunity and they can all do whatever the hell they want to do, Right?
presidents ALREADY have immunity. this is not the question.
the question is whether this (qualified) immunity applies.
What about extrajudicial assassination of American citizens?
Can the president then make himself a dictator, set aside the constitution, and declare Martial Law ? After all, he has absolute immunity ! Why not ?
@@R.Pi_II they do not have immunity... That's what the trial is about...
Qualified immunity is for police...and unpleasantly controversial.
He was the president on January 6th.
Someone help me understand. If you believe Trump has immunity of all crimes while President, would not that same person then have to accept the conduct of Biden 'terminating' Trump's entire family without any issue or demand for retribution? Please help me.
Thank you for stating what has been the number one question on my mind. 👍
Republicans are incapable of thinking that far ahead.
I made a similar comment the other day, and got a warning from Google that my comment was being deleted. I guess one has to be careful when it comes to statements that broach the topic of violent acts towards others. BUT IN FACT, Trump was the one who raised the subject and made mention of Seal Team 6 in conjunction with presidential immunity.
There's no immunity for criminal act
They talking about official act
The DOJ claims that Trump did criminal act
Trump said these act are not criminal because is Legal under the law
According to Trump's lawyers, it would only be a crime if he was convicted by impeachment of congress first, lol.
So, throughout all elections up to this point, this was never thought of before?
I believe this issue has been addressed from the very beginning.
Trump attempted to circumvent the established vote and certification process
I disagree with your assertion..I saw many executive branch examples of them circumventing the legislative branches power to declare Biden the Victor and I felt that most of the actions to put the elections back into the hands of the legislative branch were appropriate.
This court is twisted out of shape....
Sick of looking at these corrupt muppets
Odds that Thomas and Alito side with Trump? Odds that their judgement would change if the case were against Biden?
Or if the president had been a woman
What would the (dystopian) alternative be? That an attempted coup would be covered as a privileged act under the powers of the Presidency? That filing false slates of electors in an effort to try and circumvent the lawful certified vote, and will of the people, is a Presidential act?
fyi, bickering and nonsense about electors is part of the system.
see video ON TH-cam of Dem. congressmen protesting electors from every other state in 2017.
joe biden presided. (gavel!) "out of order!" --biden, 2017
(not: 'this is insurrection ')
bickering is part of our process. better or worse
What the gop is basically saying is.... "heads I win, tails you lose!"
All of the Supreme Court justices should be removed.
No!
Not all, just the MAGA ones.
NO, only six of them! Sotomayor, KJB & Kagen get a pass. Those six lying SACKS OF SH!T can all kick rocks!!!
The crying of people who never had a job
@@CatherineSTodd
Communist view points are never good for America. Stop.
Who is this government it certainly wouldn't be Biden or Garland that said this ???
SC couldn't understand what a lay men could?...... pathetic.
Trumps lawyer word salad sound like special pleading. The rabbit hole is huge
Keep in mind that they are pleading this to the most corrupt SCOTUS in history.
Only the government lawyer spoke in this video.
@@jasonowens7829 In defense of Trump right?
@@soulbeatzmajor No, that would not be in line with the motivations of the Admin.
I can see being able to “organize” them, but they still should never have stated that they were the proper electors, especially since TFG lost.
How many times have this exact thing happened in the past? A second set of electors have been named many times but all the sudden its illegal?
The Supreme Court is going to give him what he wants.🤦🏽♂️
The justices placed under tRump gave turned it into a kangaroo SCOTUS. 😢
How many people does trump have to talk to or influence his schemes and mode is well known of a crime for it to be more than just fluff
I wonder why he is considered as an office seeker when he was already in office. So wouldn’t it all fall under office holder.
Every rational or intelligent person knows that is not true. He was already voted out of office but was trying to subvert the will of the people and stay. He was seeking another term. That is a very basic fact
A basic answer as to why being a holder of an office does not make someone not a seeker of a new term in that office.
Trump was already president for that first term which he won the election for previously. His duties for maintaining that single term and for his office and country are vested in that first term are not at stake however in an election for a second term since he cannot lose his first term due to the result of the election only lose the personal possibility of winning the following term which he is not yet decided to be the holder of the office for that term until the results say he is.
There is no guarantee any president will win the next election nor are you entitled to retain your office for further terms by any law or such against the result of the official election though the results can be questioned in legal methods and recounts. But again you seek those legal methods as a seeker not as president. You are not president for that term until the election is decided and the process is finished.
Using illegal methods to try and force a win on an election for a second term would be seen as you doing so personally while seeking a second term in office which again is not part of your duties of the office you hold as part of your first term.
Whatever, else you can say about this you cannot claim to be a holder of the term of office you seek until you are elected to that term of office thus you must be a seeker for that term.
The government is not saying that was acceptable or legal conduct, just that it falls into the category of trying to get elected rather than trying to do the job.
It matters because there is some discussion around that being the distinction for what conduct might have some sort of immunity form prosecution.
The attorney basically said that he was an office seeker and I interpreted that as public not official offense resulting in not having any type of immunity that a president would have
When a president uses their powers to commit a criminal act or help achieve one that is not what taking the oath covers as it doesn’t serve the best interests of the people
I have one question. What if the president did not like the decision from a justice and had him or her assassinated does he have immunity
According to Trump’s lawyers ‘if it was an official act’ he is immune.
Let that sink in.
That would be an opportunity for that president to make a new Supreme Court appointment.
You're what you're implying is that Biden, who is president intents to have a Supreme Court Justice bumped off?
NO! that's murder
@@R.Pi_II But apparently a president can get away with murder.
How could it be campaign conduct when there was no election in sight? As scientist, I have always felt that anyone who strongly prefers a particular outcome should not be doing the experiments for fear of bias. In politics, no on cares about truth; it is all about personal advantage and it is contemptible.
The headline is the opposite of what happened. Nice work PBS
Are Scotus really saying a coup de tat is just a usual day’s work for a President?
Apparently
How can our own government take a political slant to who/when they twist or pick and choose who they the wish to support or chastise? From president all the way to individual citizens.
Justice is supposed to be blind. I'm ashamed how our government has overstepped its legal and moral bounds.
The president takes an oath to uphold the law. Instead trump broke the law.
Before Trump, two times in the history of the US, there were issues of invalidating votes and elector alternates. 1800, shortly after constitution creation and 1876 while still healing after the civil war. Reading books about both of these was eye-opening. Yet, neither 1800 nor 1876 incidences match the 2020 alternative electors issue. Some is similar but most still distinct. I recommend the reading. In 1876, post civil war reconstruction was ended with a redemption deal for Southerners that had participated in the war... insurrection activities. Allowed back into holding offices, etc.
No, electors are the SOLE realm of the states officiating their electinos. Campaigns should be BARRED from even touching this topic, if they are not already.
Office Seeker vs Office Holder is an excellent way of describing that situation.
It is a shame that the Supreme court has been shown to be tainted by greed and political influence. To listen to them debate in an objective fashion, it is clear that there are some brilliant minds at work that could have done great things for the nation if not owned by their creditors.
Our frammakers and founders built our constitution on intent and intentions.
So be it.
Malicious intent should disqualify any one from any sort of immunity even and specially presidents.
Who as foremost examples in a democratic & civilised society must show it. 😊
That attorney's voice is like nails on a chalkboard
Yes trumps is. Nails on a chalkboard
He’s a women…lol
Official fraudulent conduct ? That the argument?
Criminal behavior is simply that -- criminal behavior. Only the nefarious seek to make the simple complex. America is in great danger.
How do ordinary citizens playing the part of juror make a decision based upon legal vernacular that they don't understand?
The fact that this even needs to go in front of the SCOTUS to begin with is insane. And of course, it's THIS SCOTUS; the SCOTUS Trump stacked well in advance.
The argument a president using their authority to impact election outcomes is part of their official duties is antithetical to elections being free (all those who can participate do participate without impediment) and fair (all votes cast are counted without prejudice). It’s asinine.
The guess is that they will send this back to a lower Court
The credibility of the Supreme Court is seriously in question. Is this the United States of America or the Russian Federation?
Actions taken after the campaign cant be a part of the campaign
6-3 or 5-4 for limited Presidential immunity. Every act will have to be litigated as for application. There cannot be "no immunity" for a President. That would be absurd on its face. If that were true, the Office of the POTUS would be nothing more than a Ceremonial position, in as much as the Royal family in England.
Is anyone getting it?
Who will announce his coronation, Ginni?
US Constitution rooted in ( 15 June) 1215 Magna Carta Churchill " There is a law which is above the. King, which even he cannot break This reaffirmation of a Supreme law and its expression in a general charter is the great work of the Magna Carta and this alone justifies the respect in which men have held it"
Do a nation vote in the issue. It’s that simple let the people decide
Here is a judge acting like a judge
It's clear this was seditious behavior, being on the edge of being traitorous. Guilty, let the trials begin!
Sadly only one woman on that court knows the constitution...
Alternate electors may be seen as the next step in the event voter fraud is found out and it makes a difference in the outcome.
When did Smeagol pass the Bar exam?
The right wing conservative justices seem to be mire worried about prosecutitorial injustice not the crowds of people and the former president on Jan 6.
The US must compliment Mr Trump for showing what big holes are in their Constitution and Laws after assuming that "norms" will be followed.
Dont break the law for trump
But it's OK to break the law for Biden, right? Like finding Hunters drugs in the White House.
Just break the law for Obama/Biden ?
This is all pretty rich, because Im old enough to remember all of MSM and *many* Democrat elected officials wanting to do exactly the same thing with Electors in 2016, by replacing them with someone who would vote for Hillary; citing numerous state law clauses and legal opinions that made it not only completely permissible, but a strategically brilliant masterstroke to 'save Democracy'.
The simple questions needing answers are these; Can a candidate who is not currently a first-term President take the actions Trump took relating to Jan 6 and the false slate of electors? If that's true, this is outside the scope of the Office of the President. Period.
What this case will prove is whether or not the Supreme Court is legitimate and can continue in this form.
Clown Court. Embarrassing.
If only he had organized an alternate President to himself. Someone with a good brain.
It is hard to know what is going on because, with regard to the 2020 election, we only hear the anti-Trump rhetoric from the media, so the American public never have all the necessary facts to converge on a well informed opinion.
Lawyer: Overthrowing a democratic system and becoming a permanent ruler is part of campaign conduct
4:42 Fitzgerald vs Nixon: when their actions did not violate clearly established
laws
they had better come to the right conclusion on this very clear question. Up until now this group of 9 should be ashamed of themselves. They have more than desicrated their position
If Trump is granted even a portion of immunity there should be national apology given to President Nixon
WOW!!!!!
He is a traitor and looks like the Supreme Court is as well 🙄
So basically if it criminal it CAN'T be official govt work.
Yeah, that's my conclusion
How trump still remains popular to even become the Republican candidate for the 2nd time is something I find very difficult to wrap my head around!
If these judges goes with this lawyer, then Biden can go after Trump, right? Without consequences?
argument that these letters mentioned were fraudulent, falls apart.
.
government contends they were not sent!
writing a letter and NOT sending it reflects the decision NOT TO SAY/DO the thing in the letter.
(even more than just never writing a letter)
It WAS THEFT.
Ok so being a traitor is totally fine. Traitors.
The liberal justices stuck to the point of the case and conservatives looked for technicalities to kick the case back to the lower court. Delay delay delay.
It’s beyond frustrating.
Use of the Executive branch, expressly having the purpose of implementing the law, by violating it is absurd. The Constitution and the government based on it may not be much, but they are better than this, maybe even rational, and neither presidential dementia nor malice shall or ever is to prevail against them.
“The protection of the President” isn’t terminally for the sake of the health, safety, interest, and welfare of the President, either office or person, but for the President’s Constitutional and lawful exercise of the office for the health, safety, interest, and welfare of the country with which specially entrusted, and its people (even citizen and alien) therein (including the President as citizen among them) elected of the citizens, for the citizens, by the citizens, and as such, subordinate to them.
Every President has an even higher rank, that of a citizen of the country served.
And as such, it is inescapably contrary to a President’s own interest to violate, under color of performance of duties of office, laws of the country with which entrusted, and as such must, inexorably, be held to account in common with any other citizen.
When is the Supreme Court going to end all of this nonsense? There is no mention of presidential immunity in the Constitution, and furthermore, to allow immunity would allow the President to do criminal acts.
Donny holds his hand up and one on the Bible and states “I Donald J. Trump do solemnly swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and to honor its founding principles”
Uhhh… so did he not swear to uphold the law.
Defund PBS…
Did he introduce himself as candidate or president when he called Georgia
Doesn’t matter. He was Both when he called GEORGIA looking for votes; and on January 6th.
He wasn’t just looking for votes, he was threatening personal harm if he didn’t get them.
"The ballots are corrupt, which is totally illegal. It's more illegal for you than it is for them, because you know what they did and you're not reporting it. That's a criminal offense, and you can't let that happen. That's a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. So, tell me, Brad, what are we going to do? We won the election, and it's not fair to take it away from us like this. And it's going to be costly, in many ways."
That’s a big risk to YOU, and it will be costly in MANY ways. Wonder what he meant … 🤔
Also, I don't understand why so many people care about what Trump does in the bedroom, that's kind of gross to me
The DOJ respondent answering the Justice's question is so precise, relevant and thoughtful. BZ! So unlike Sauer.