@fran blache, some of the rather ornate glass ink wells, like at 04:05 had a rather practical purpose. The way the light bounces through it reminds me of the little glass water jars used to focus candle light for sewing pre-1900. I'm thinking this is part of why glass wells were so popular
People sometimes used to refer to an arrogant boss or politician as "his nibs", like a sarcastic way of saying "his Excellency" or something. I wonder how that saying came about......
@goodun2974 Yeah, I've heard "his nibs" a number of times from Monty Python, and the random movie here and there. I always assumed it must be a British derived phrase. The etymology of nib doesn't seem to allude to any elitist connotation. Oxford dictionary has "his nibs" but still doesn't tie in with the etymology. It's a mind boggling thing. EDIT: Meant to say his nibs in the Oxford connotes elitism, but still no real connection to the etymology of the word nib.
@sometimesleela5947 what's your problem with a human being asking another human being a genuine question? Not all of the people on here are A.I or bots, or teenage idiots. 🤔
As a child of the sixties, I generally use fine-tip ballpoint and felt-tip pens. I've used cartridge pens in the past and didn't really care for them. Townsends, who discusses all things about eighteenth-century culture and technology, recently did a video about quill pens. He discussed various commonly used inks and the difficulty of cutting a pen tip into the end of a feather. Fascinating stuff.
@@lorensims4846 You must live in a place with better pen market. All I ever see is "medium" - .7mm which I find is is pretty coarse. I think they just want them to run out faster.
Years ago, I found your channel with a Wannamaker organ video. Then you sent me down the fountain pen rabbit hole :) 100 fountain pens and many bottles of ink later... I always enjoy it when you feature the writing instruments!
My dad was taught by an English school teacher in a small school in rural Arkansas. His handwriting was unbelievable. I had to practice a lot to be able to duplicate his signature so I could forge it on ‘certain paperwork’ to and from school. 😂 Quite a contrast from his line of work as a Buick auto mechanic.
Years ago , in junior highschool, I found a " double barrel" inkwell in a sinkhole near where I lived. I was told it was for student use in schools way back in the day. I gave it to a teacher who collected antique school supplies. I have used a quill pen exactly once...in a high school art class. A plastic one that was dipped in some sort of acid to write/draw on glass. Safety wasn't all that big a thing in the '70s.... .
The gall in iron gall is oak gall, nothing to do with gall bladders. If there were inks made that way I would love to see a source as I've never heard of it being used in ink before.
Fran is right - as usual - in that ox gall (from cows) is used as a wetting agent, including for watercolour paints. But you are correct about the ink formula. Any source of tannic acid, not just oak gall, can be used to make the ink though. Nice catch.
@@FranLab I do not believe that is correct. It may have been added to inks to change some of their properties, but every historic ink recipe I have come across was getting those components of the recipe from plant galls. I admit it is not a huge number of recipes so I may have missed something. If I am missing something I would be happy to know more, like what recipes it was found in and what it was used for in those recipes.
@@Noxonomus The use of ox gall as a wetting agent dates back centuries and is rooted in the traditions of both art and craftsmanship. Its history is intertwined with the evolution of painting techniques, particularly in watercolor and ink applications, as well as in historical practices of fabric dyeing and even in the production of manuscripts and illuminated texts. ### In Art and Manuscript Illumination - **Medieval Illuminated Manuscripts:** Ox gall was used in the preparation of pigments and inks for illuminated manuscripts. Its role as a surfactant made it valuable for ensuring smooth, even application of colors on vellum and parchment. This was crucial for the intricate work required in manuscript illumination. - **Watercolor Painting:** As watercolor painting evolved, especially from the Renaissance onwards, artists sought methods to improve the flow and spread of their paints. Ox gall emerged as a natural solution, allowing for finer dispersion
Townsends had an episode gotta be at least a year or two ago now in which his guest described in wonderful detail how quill pens were/are constructed and used back in the day. Might be cool to attempt making some for a video.
I make my own iron gall ink powder from pure tannic acid, ferrous sulphate crystals, gum arabic powder and some salicylic acid (preservative against mould). I just hot destilled water/rain water into this powder ink. It is a very permanent ink with a great covering power (very black writing) and after drying it is completely waterproof and fade resistant. Using both quill pens and steel dip pens. For Quill pens I add additional gum arabic to increase viscosity to have a better flow (otherwise the ink flows to fast). Steel dip pens require a more fluid ink.
I have never written with a dip pen, but I love how my fountain pen glides so smoothly over the paper. My youngest son once asked if I liked my fountain pen because it is easier to write with. I said it is a little harder to write with, but the pleasure of writing with it! Do you have a glass pen?
I think the proper way to hold the quill at an angle with just one corner of the nib making contact with the paper. Most important is very little pressure is exerted. This is the only way you create the fine lines characteristic of autograph manuscripts from the Renaissance and beyond. I once inspected a Handel manuscript at the British Library and was amazed at how small and fine the writing was. I couldn't believe it wasn't done with a steel nib! The other thing is how straight in line people wrote. Paper from that period had watermark lines that enabled them to write in a straight line without the need for ruled lines. Printed staff paper was available as well after the printing press was invented.
We have chickens and a few roosters and the feathers that the roosters shed are beautifully colored. I often wonder if they’d be suitable for quill pens.
Loved to see the quills. I collect fountain pens but also have a collection of premium Joseph Gillott Victorian steel nibs (including the dream tips used for Engrossers Script and ornamentation: the Principality, 604EF, 303) ornate inkwells and pen holders, including oblique holders for copperplate etc. At the end of the video you say you’ll be back soon with a more technical subject-penmanship and its tools can get deeply technical :-)
Back in the late 1980s, I started using a Shaeffer fountain pen when taking notes at university. I could have continued using a ballpoint pen, but I got sick of paper fibres getting stuck on the tip and getting smudges everywhere. I really liked the look of the ink on the paper, and the fountain pen actually helped improve my handwriting! 👍🙂
Iron gall ink is tannic acid (commonly from steeping oak galls) and a sulphate, most commonly iron(II) sulphate (commonly in historic recipes called green vitriol or copperas), it's a very interesting reaction. I think it would be a fun little chemistry experiment for you to do, you'll want to add some gum arabic to get a better consistency though. You are very correct in that it was often kept as the dry components until ready to use as iron gall will precipitate iron over time and cannot be rehydrated. Another common dry ink was carbon/lamp black, you can easily get the powdered constituents of both inks today rather cheaply or purchase them premade in bottles. Platinum carbon ink is fountain pen friendly, waterproof and great for putting watercolours over as an example.
One of two things I hate about school years (other than the neverending beatings and insults from the "teachers") is these pens. Okay, it was already past the age of natural quill - but these steel pens were a nightmare. We were banned from using ballpoint pens until the 8th or 9th grade.
Likewise - I started using a fountain pen only after I hit 40 - but I wish I'd had access to things like the cbeap and disposable but highly reliable pilot v-pen when I was a schoolboy - so much better than the rubbish cartridge pens I was made to use.
It is a movement in some places. I think over all culturally that longhand will die off, but I do hope that it is kept alive somehow. It really does make for a different kind of brain.
Growing up in the 50’s, some of the school supplies we had to have for elemetary school, was a small glass bottle of blue & one of red ink. And a wodden handled pen. 🙂 Learning cursive writing. Don’t thinks taught in any schools now. Just thumbmanship for swipping. The desk seat I sat on was connected to the desktop behind me. And there was an inkwell hole at the front of the desks. Different time back then.
Perhaps I don’t understand how it is intended to be used, but that tilted top on the Mont Blanc ink looked flawed, in that it seems to give easier access to the slope down to, rather to the bottom of the well, i.e. seems to defeat its intended purpose.
Sort of - as a rule you can use just about any ink for a dip pen, but fountain pens can be very tricky with pigments, so there are inks that work best for fountain pens that don't stop up the works.
Oak galls are a round growth that form on the twigs of oak trees when a small wasp bores into them and lays an egg, which develops into a grub; the plant has a sort of defensive immune reaction to it and encapsulates the insect in a cherry sized growth. India ink is made primarily from fine carbon soot, sometimes called lampblack, produced by burning various substances ranging from wood, animal or vegetable oils and fats, tar or pitch, to animal bone.
the real strange thing is when i'm using baking soda on fresh red radish - it's skin producing a very distinct color ink juice, a forever source of ink by plants?
Awesome! Took ink up after stroke and loosing all my other hobbies...I have no talent but it's a great release for a silent woman at 2 am.Itchas been a life saver.I made some quill pens as a young one when I walk about in woods,the dog and I would find hollow turkey feathers.At that time we just wiggled bic refill into space and would write away till empty.Havent been able to walk out in woods in a number of years so all the "feather pens"have been given away or worn down on quill end,very fragile will split if you are not gentle.Thanks for the flash back memory.
Oh, I didn't know you were into writing instruments. For some reason it made me happy to learn that we shared that interest. I never graduated to quills though, only various metal nibs. I kinda want to try it now. I couldn't hear the squeaking sound on my phone's speakers, but it was audible when wearing headphones. It still did have a somewhat harsh and tinny quality to it, which I suspect has something to do with your phone's microphone?
Cool - have never used a quill or even a dipping pen before. I've got some nice fountain pens dating back to the 20's and for a long time I was a bit infatuated with Shaeffer 'snorkel' pens - but to be honest that was more to do with their inherent gadgetty-ness These days by day-to-day pen is a modern Twsibi pen. Though I've also enjoyed using the Pilot V pen - a range of cheap disposable fountain pens (such a weird concept). I've have loved those at school - much better than the cruddy cartridge fed pens we had to use.
I bought cheap fountain pen to play with. They're neat, but you have to write differently than with a ballpoint. Really, you're supposed to set the paper at an angle, and you should only stroke down, not up. At least thats what some fountain pen youtuber pro said.
Ah, kind of. With a lot of fountain pens you can absolutely get away with pushing them up, put the pointier nibs will catch on the paper when pushed, build up tension and then suddenly release it, splattering ink over your sheet of paper. So you learn to mostly stroke down, and / or hold your pen at an angle and go up diagonally, making it more of a sideways movement in the quill's frame of reference, using very light touch on those upwardish movements (not sure that makes a ton of sense, it's easier to feel when you're doing it than it is to describe). If you're trying to learn how to do it, I think I'd get a pen that actually punishes you for doing upstrokes. Otherwise you're not really getting any feedback about your technique, which makes learning kinda hard IMO.
Thank you for demonstrating the Quill Pens. I use them for sketching. Usually use standard fountain pen for writing. Would rather use these pens ALL THE TIME.
I make iron gall ink every fall as a sort of tradition. I use acorn tannins for the pigment.
@fran blache, some of the rather ornate glass ink wells, like at 04:05 had a rather practical purpose. The way the light bounces through it reminds me of the little glass water jars used to focus candle light for sewing pre-1900. I'm thinking this is part of why glass wells were so popular
it is really art that is functional, I think.
Blessed are the nib makers, for they shall crispen the lines and make everlasting neatness.
People sometimes used to refer to an arrogant boss or politician as "his nibs", like a sarcastic way of saying "his Excellency" or something. I wonder how that saying came about......
and they shall help keep the cat from attacking you while you're animating a huge feather.
@goodun2974 Yeah, I've heard "his nibs" a number of times from Monty Python, and the random movie here and there. I always assumed it must be a British derived phrase.
The etymology of nib doesn't seem to allude to any elitist connotation. Oxford dictionary has "his nibs" but still doesn't tie in with the etymology.
It's a mind boggling thing.
EDIT: Meant to say his nibs in the Oxford connotes elitism, but still no real connection to the etymology of the word nib.
@sometimesleela5947 what's your problem with a human being asking another human being a genuine question? Not all of the people on here are A.I or bots, or teenage idiots. 🤔
@Goole: I don't understand your comment. My reply was to the original poster indicating another condition for which we are thankful.
As a child of the sixties, I generally use fine-tip ballpoint and felt-tip pens. I've used cartridge pens in the past and didn't really care for them.
Townsends, who discusses all things about eighteenth-century culture and technology, recently did a video about quill pens. He discussed various commonly used inks and the difficulty of cutting a pen tip into the end of a feather.
Fascinating stuff.
Where do you get fine tip ballpoints? I can't find them anywhere.
@@ferulebezel They're labeled "fine point" or 0.5 mm.
@@lorensims4846 Duh. That says nothing about where they are sold.
@@ferulebezel Duh back at ya. I've found them in grocery stores, drug stores, just about everywhere.
@@lorensims4846 You must live in a place with better pen market. All I ever see is "medium" - .7mm which I find is is pretty coarse. I think they just want them to run out faster.
Years ago, I found your channel with a Wannamaker organ video. Then you sent me down the fountain pen rabbit hole :) 100 fountain pens and many bottles of ink later... I always enjoy it when you feature the writing instruments!
Thank you for the lesson. This was fascinating to me.
My dad was taught by an English school teacher in a small school in rural Arkansas. His handwriting was unbelievable. I had to practice a lot to be able to duplicate his signature so I could forge it on ‘certain paperwork’ to and from school. 😂 Quite a contrast from his line of work as a Buick auto mechanic.
Very nice lettering hand.
Thanks Fran
Years ago , in junior highschool, I found a " double barrel" inkwell in a sinkhole near where I lived. I was told it was for student use in schools way back in the day.
I gave it to a teacher who collected antique school supplies.
I have used a quill pen exactly once...in a high school art class. A plastic one that was dipped in some sort of acid to write/draw on glass.
Safety wasn't all that big a thing in the '70s....
.
Safety regulations are written in blood - with a quill, presumably.
The gall in iron gall is oak gall, nothing to do with gall bladders. If there were inks made that way I would love to see a source as I've never heard of it being used in ink before.
Fran is right - as usual - in that ox gall (from cows) is used as a wetting agent, including for watercolour paints. But you are correct about the ink formula. Any source of tannic acid, not just oak gall, can be used to make the ink though. Nice catch.
Yea, modern inks are all vegetable based, but weirdly you can still get the cow stuff if you're hardcore old school.
@@FranLab I do not believe that is correct. It may have been added to inks to change some of their properties, but every historic ink recipe I have come across was getting those components of the recipe from plant galls. I admit it is not a huge number of recipes so I may have missed something. If I am missing something I would be happy to know more, like what recipes it was found in and what it was used for in those recipes.
@@Noxonomus The use of ox gall as a wetting agent dates back centuries and is rooted in the traditions of both art and craftsmanship. Its history is intertwined with the evolution of painting techniques, particularly in watercolor and ink applications, as well as in historical practices of fabric dyeing and even in the production of manuscripts and illuminated texts.
### In Art and Manuscript Illumination
- **Medieval Illuminated Manuscripts:** Ox gall was used in the preparation of pigments and inks for illuminated manuscripts. Its role as a surfactant made it valuable for ensuring smooth, even application of colors on vellum and parchment. This was crucial for the intricate work required in manuscript illumination.
- **Watercolor Painting:** As watercolor painting evolved, especially from the Renaissance onwards, artists sought methods to improve the flow and spread of their paints. Ox gall emerged as a natural solution, allowing for finer dispersion
Wow this is so cool!
Quill making is an art!
Townsends had an episode gotta be at least a year or two ago now in which his guest described in wonderful detail how quill pens were/are constructed and used back in the day. Might be cool to attempt making some for a video.
That was a very enlightening episode. Learned a lot. Had no idea…
Very interesting! Thanks Fran this is something we don't see anywhere else.
I make my own iron gall ink powder from pure tannic acid, ferrous sulphate crystals, gum arabic powder and some salicylic acid (preservative against mould). I just hot destilled water/rain water into this powder ink. It is a very permanent ink with a great covering power (very black writing) and after drying it is completely waterproof and fade resistant. Using both quill pens and steel dip pens. For Quill pens I add additional gum arabic to increase viscosity to have a better flow (otherwise the ink flows to fast). Steel dip pens require a more fluid ink.
I went to 4th grade in Oslo, Norway. The finished version of our writing lessons had to be written with our desk nib pen.
Thanks Fran. I love your reviews of various writing and drawing implements.
I have never written with a dip pen, but I love how my fountain pen glides so smoothly over the paper. My youngest son once asked if I liked my fountain pen because it is easier to write with. I said it is a little harder to write with, but the pleasure of writing with it! Do you have a glass pen?
I think the proper way to hold the quill at an angle with just one corner of the nib making contact with the paper. Most important is very little pressure is exerted. This is the only way you create the fine lines characteristic of autograph manuscripts from the Renaissance and beyond. I once inspected a Handel manuscript at the British Library and was amazed at how small and fine the writing was. I couldn't believe it wasn't done with a steel nib! The other thing is how straight in line people wrote. Paper from that period had watermark lines that enabled them to write in a straight line without the need for ruled lines. Printed staff paper was available as well after the printing press was invented.
We have chickens and a few roosters and the feathers that the roosters shed are beautifully colored. I often wonder if they’d be suitable for quill pens.
Loved to see the quills. I collect fountain pens but also have a collection of premium Joseph Gillott Victorian steel nibs (including the dream tips used for Engrossers Script and ornamentation: the Principality, 604EF, 303) ornate inkwells and pen holders, including oblique holders for copperplate etc. At the end of the video you say you’ll be back soon with a more technical subject-penmanship and its tools can get deeply technical :-)
calming.
Back in the late 1980s, I started using a Shaeffer fountain pen when taking notes at university. I could have continued using a ballpoint pen, but I got sick of paper fibres getting stuck on the tip and getting smudges everywhere. I really liked the look of the ink on the paper, and the fountain pen actually helped improve my handwriting! 👍🙂
I loved those pens too. Cool cartridges also...
Cool topic 😎
Your handwriting is exquisite
...ly bad. Honestly it is embarrassing - I watch calligraphers do their work and I just want to hide in a closet.
Not really...it looks classic in this demonstration!
Iron gall ink is tannic acid (commonly from steeping oak galls) and a sulphate, most commonly iron(II) sulphate (commonly in historic recipes called green vitriol or copperas), it's a very interesting reaction. I think it would be a fun little chemistry experiment for you to do, you'll want to add some gum arabic to get a better consistency though. You are very correct in that it was often kept as the dry components until ready to use as iron gall will precipitate iron over time and cannot be rehydrated. Another common dry ink was carbon/lamp black, you can easily get the powdered constituents of both inks today rather cheaply or purchase them premade in bottles. Platinum carbon ink is fountain pen friendly, waterproof and great for putting watercolours over as an example.
One of two things I hate about school years (other than the neverending beatings and insults from the "teachers") is these pens. Okay, it was already past the age of natural quill - but these steel pens were a nightmare. We were banned from using ballpoint pens until the 8th or 9th grade.
Likewise - I started using a fountain pen only after I hit 40 - but I wish I'd had access to things like the cbeap and disposable but highly reliable pilot v-pen when I was a schoolboy - so much better than the rubbish cartridge pens I was made to use.
SCOTUS still uses them
Great content Fran,could you do a video on wax sealing letters please.
I will eventually.
The Pen Video theme tune is an absolute banger 😂 I love it.
It's addictive! 😄👍🙂
I hear they're considering teaching cursive handwriting again. Not sure why they ever stopped. Not everything has a keyboard.
It is a movement in some places. I think over all culturally that longhand will die off, but I do hope that it is kept alive somehow. It really does make for a different kind of brain.
Yes, in California it has been reinstated.
Growing up in the 50’s, some of the school supplies we had to have for elemetary school, was a small glass bottle of blue & one of red ink. And a wodden handled pen. 🙂 Learning cursive writing. Don’t thinks taught in any schools now. Just thumbmanship for swipping. The desk seat I sat on was connected to the desktop behind me. And there was an inkwell hole at the front of the desks. Different time back then.
I’d give my right arm to write like that.
I had to mute it when you started writing. The whole fingernails on the chalkboard sensation will keep me from even trying one of those.
Perhaps I don’t understand how it is intended to be used, but that tilted top on the Mont Blanc ink looked flawed, in that it seems to give easier access to the slope down to, rather to the bottom of the well, i.e. seems to defeat its intended purpose.
Do they make certain quill pens for specific inks?
Sort of - as a rule you can use just about any ink for a dip pen, but fountain pens can be very tricky with pigments, so there are inks that work best for fountain pens that don't stop up the works.
Very informative.... thanks Fran...
Oak galls are a round growth that form on the twigs of oak trees when a small wasp bores into them and lays an egg, which develops into a grub; the plant has a sort of defensive immune reaction to it and encapsulates the insect in a cherry sized growth.
India ink is made primarily from fine carbon soot, sometimes called lampblack, produced by burning various substances ranging from wood, animal or vegetable oils and fats, tar or pitch, to animal bone.
the real strange thing is when i'm using baking soda on fresh red radish - it's skin producing a very distinct color ink juice, a forever source of ink by plants?
Awesome!
Took ink up after stroke and loosing all my other hobbies...I have no talent but it's a great release for a silent woman at 2 am.Itchas been a life saver.I made some quill pens as a young one when I walk about in woods,the dog and I would find hollow turkey feathers.At that time we just wiggled bic refill into space and would write away till empty.Havent been able to walk out in woods in a number of years so all the "feather pens"have been given away or worn down on quill end,very fragile will split if you are not gentle.Thanks for the flash back memory.
Oh, I didn't know you were into writing instruments. For some reason it made me happy to learn that we shared that interest. I never graduated to quills though, only various metal nibs. I kinda want to try it now.
I couldn't hear the squeaking sound on my phone's speakers, but it was audible when wearing headphones. It still did have a somewhat harsh and tinny quality to it, which I suspect has something to do with your phone's microphone?
Got a whole playlist for pens and pencils - time to dive in....
lol the new intro!
Yay! We are both into writing instruments
Your writing is FAR & AWAY better than mine....
And I think I will hang on to my TWSBIs. Thank you for sharing this historical look at writing.
I might not like the screeching sound, but oh yes, I love your doodling and handwriting!
Very good! The writing actually looks 150 years old!
Cool - have never used a quill or even a dipping pen before. I've got some nice fountain pens dating back to the 20's and for a long time I was a bit infatuated with Shaeffer 'snorkel' pens - but to be honest that was more to do with their inherent gadgetty-ness These days by day-to-day pen is a modern Twsibi pen. Though I've also enjoyed using the Pilot V pen - a range of cheap disposable fountain pens (such a weird concept). I've have loved those at school - much better than the cruddy cartridge fed pens we had to use.
Too cool!
I bought cheap fountain pen to play with. They're neat, but you have to write differently than with a ballpoint. Really, you're supposed to set the paper at an angle, and you should only stroke down, not up. At least thats what some fountain pen youtuber pro said.
Ah, kind of. With a lot of fountain pens you can absolutely get away with pushing them up, put the pointier nibs will catch on the paper when pushed, build up tension and then suddenly release it, splattering ink over your sheet of paper. So you learn to mostly stroke down, and / or hold your pen at an angle and go up diagonally, making it more of a sideways movement in the quill's frame of reference, using very light touch on those upwardish movements (not sure that makes a ton of sense, it's easier to feel when you're doing it than it is to describe).
If you're trying to learn how to do it, I think I'd get a pen that actually punishes you for doing upstrokes. Otherwise you're not really getting any feedback about your technique, which makes learning kinda hard IMO.
A proper fountain pen writes equally well in all directions if held at the correct writing angle.
I think your handwriting is solid; I’m sure it would be gorgeous if you were using a really high quality medium ball point pen.
And even better with a fountain pen
Thank you for demonstrating the Quill Pens. I use them for sketching. Usually use standard fountain pen for writing. Would rather use these pens ALL THE TIME.