It's amazing how finely tuned dhamma is. One has to look very carefully and think deeply to catch a glimpse of it and when you do its like wow how did I not see it before. Thank you for all your amazing help.
Faith leads to Pragnya. Without Pragnya no understanding . Thats why faith or saddha is important. But after Pragnya is when you have real faith that will never leave you.
21:00 I once asked a māhathera of the Ajahn Chah tradition what percentage of serious, non-temporary monks eventually disrobe. His answer was 90%. And speaking to him later about how startlingly bad that "success rate" was, he seemed to not really understand where I was coming from; he spoke as if the fundamental efficacy of his entire religious tradition was something he never even gave a single thought to. It was a very eye-opening conversation. Complacency is so tragically and so very commonly mistaken for khanti among the overwhelming majority of Buddhists.
Do you see that as surprising? I have aspirations that way and making moves. If a community I was looking at had a 90% disrobe rate at 10 years it wouldn't matter to me much, what would matter is why. Ajahn Chah had many people come to monastery and leave. I think a disrobe rate that is 90% doesn't say much, consider how strong the fetters is... it kept us in rebirth a long time. Going through death many times.
@@danzacjones The disrobal rate in and of itself is not particularly important; I was simply using that one example to point towards the larger cultural pattern of blind, outcome-independent faith both in what people conceive the Triple Gem to be as well as in the religious cultures that are presumed to be a legitimate manifestation of that Triple Gem in the world today. But for the Ajahn Chah tradition in particular, with its very long pre-ordination procedure, such a disrobal rate is still quite damning. Everyone is ultimately responsible for only themselves, their own enlightnment or lack thereof, but if 90% of even the highly-vetted, highly-enculturated, and highly-motivated ascetic forest monastics in your tradition all fail to achieve the ostensible purpose of the entire cultural enterprise, it would seem to indicate that there is a fatal and fundamental miscalibration and misguidance present in the tradition's praxis as a whole. Which *there is*. (And that is to say nothing of the number of puthujjanas present in the remaining 10%.) It is simply remarkable that despite all the myriad obvious warning bells going off within the Buddhist cultural leviathan that maybe what people think the Dhamma is is not what the Dhamma is, very few ever think to actually question whether what they have been lead to believe and have faith in is actually true or actually works. Of course that all just points to the more fundamental nature of just how pernicious and all-encompassing ignorance and delusion are, but it is remarkable nonetheless.
@@kellerdellinger8630 I have heard eminent thai monks in Thailand say that it depends on the kamma made in past lives as to how well people do when they ordain…or whether they disrobe. We don’t see so much as we don’t see this and then make assumptions. Dhamma in the west is relatively new and therefore struggles can be expected. It is true too of the Buddhist countries, where there is a wide spectrum …some incredibly high monks and others who do not even keep Sila. Even the teachers we align with are due to our kamma with them in the past.
‘Whoever deals with the work of b’reshit and the work of merkavah must inevitably fail. It is written: Let this heap of ruins be under your hand (Isaiah 3:6). This refers to things that a person cannot understand unless he fails in them.’ - Bahir 150
@@cliffmilbrun2803 It's a rhetorical figure, the Zen tradition is full of these. The Great Doubt involves questioning each and every assumption one holds about themselves, their experience, their practice, the Dha(r/m)a.. It also involves enduring any uncertainty and confusion that results from dropping those assumptions, without trying to mask it just because one feels uncomfortable with it. In other words, you willingly leave the safe haven of beliefs and assumptions, and agree to stay in this groundless, uncertain state for however long it takes to find what you seek, without even knowing what it is exactly - because how could you know it with all the wrong views you still have. This particular aspect of Zen seems pretty aligned with the approach expounded by HH.
@@cliffmilbrun2803 Doubt is better translated as "probing inquiry", it isn't the same as the Pāli vicikicchā. If anyone is familiar with Zen and Theravada your conclusion happens all the time, and it's due to jumping to conclusions.
Hi, I made some comments that could be interpreted as faithless on reddit a few weeks ago. I was under a bit of pressure when I wrote them, sorry if there were any bad vibes, likely I'm just being presumptuous, but it beats the alternative. once you stop thinking like "If I went to the shops to get the thing I could get rid of this pressure" and start thinking like "im so safe, the shops are all the way over there, what a bother it would be to try and chase it" it goes from mostly horrible to easy. if you can put the contexts in the right order in jivaka sutta its worth it. 1)mara's domain 2) necessary evil 3) a few caveats to make it better. its a pretty obvious example of not mine. instead you guys even used the "its a timeless dharma" cross referencing once, the kind of thing you normally call out as a cover up. without the coverup there's a different reading for Devadatta sutta you can explore too if you want. there's not really any reason I can see for me to be here any more. thankyou. gl everyone.
Every religion contains some truth... however Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to the Father in Heaven...I encourage everyone to invite Jesus Christ into their hearts and ask him to show you the truth. He stands at your door knocking waiting to be let in.
Is this appropriate or useful? This is a Buddhist space - one that does not accept someone else giving salvation to others. You become liberated through the cultivation of the proper mindset, action, ethics, and faith. Offerings to the Buddha's and sentient beings have far more merit in reality than assuming someone else died for "your" mistakes.
I have complete confidence that this channel is the real deal, These Venerables are not messing around MY VIRTUAL SANGHA
Important distinction between confidence and faith. Thank you to the Sadhamma
🙏
I'm Very thankful for your teachings
Thank you Ajahn, Bhantes and Sister🙏🏽
Next time I go to break a precept or sense restraint I'll ask myself: Do you not have faith?
Good idea! I'm going to do the same.
It's amazing how finely tuned dhamma is. One has to look very carefully and think deeply to catch a glimpse of it and when you do its like wow how did I not see it before. Thank you for all your amazing help.
Faith leads to Pragnya. Without Pragnya no understanding . Thats why faith or saddha is important. But after Pragnya is when you have real faith that will never leave you.
Must have Saddha. Without faith in the teachings, can not defeat vicikiccha 🙏🙏🙏
21:00
I once asked a māhathera of the Ajahn Chah tradition what percentage of serious, non-temporary monks eventually disrobe. His answer was 90%. And speaking to him later about how startlingly bad that "success rate" was, he seemed to not really understand where I was coming from; he spoke as if the fundamental efficacy of his entire religious tradition was something he never even gave a single thought to. It was a very eye-opening conversation.
Complacency is so tragically and so very commonly mistaken for khanti among the overwhelming majority of Buddhists.
Do you see that as surprising? I have aspirations that way and making moves. If a community I was looking at had a 90% disrobe rate at 10 years it wouldn't matter to me much, what would matter is why. Ajahn Chah had many people come to monastery and leave. I think a disrobe rate that is 90% doesn't say much, consider how strong the fetters is... it kept us in rebirth a long time. Going through death many times.
@@danzacjones The disrobal rate in and of itself is not particularly important; I was simply using that one example to point towards the larger cultural pattern of blind, outcome-independent faith both in what people conceive the Triple Gem to be as well as in the religious cultures that are presumed to be a legitimate manifestation of that Triple Gem in the world today.
But for the Ajahn Chah tradition in particular, with its very long pre-ordination procedure, such a disrobal rate is still quite damning. Everyone is ultimately responsible for only themselves, their own enlightnment or lack thereof, but if 90% of even the highly-vetted, highly-enculturated, and highly-motivated ascetic forest monastics in your tradition all fail to achieve the ostensible purpose of the entire cultural enterprise, it would seem to indicate that there is a fatal and fundamental miscalibration and misguidance present in the tradition's praxis as a whole. Which *there is*. (And that is to say nothing of the number of puthujjanas present in the remaining 10%.)
It is simply remarkable that despite all the myriad obvious warning bells going off within the Buddhist cultural leviathan that maybe what people think the Dhamma is is not what the Dhamma is, very few ever think to actually question whether what they have been lead to believe and have faith in is actually true or actually works. Of course that all just points to the more fundamental nature of just how pernicious and all-encompassing ignorance and delusion are, but it is remarkable nonetheless.
@@kellerdellinger8630 I have heard eminent thai monks in Thailand say that it depends on the kamma made in past lives as to how well people do when they ordain…or whether they disrobe. We don’t see so much as we don’t see this and then make assumptions. Dhamma in the west is relatively new and therefore struggles can be expected. It is true too of the Buddhist countries, where there is a wide spectrum …some incredibly high monks and others who do not even keep Sila. Even the teachers we align with are due to our kamma with them in the past.
‘Whoever deals with the work of b’reshit and the work of merkavah must inevitably fail. It is written: Let this heap of ruins be under your hand (Isaiah 3:6). This refers to things that a person cannot understand unless he fails in them.’ - Bahir 150
In Zen Buddhism, the three pillars are Great Faith, Great Doubt, and Great Determination.
Great faith ,great doubt??? Sounds like that practice ended before it begin.
The Buddha never taught three pillars.
@@cliffmilbrun2803 It's a rhetorical figure, the Zen tradition is full of these. The Great Doubt involves questioning each and every assumption one holds about themselves, their experience, their practice, the Dha(r/m)a.. It also involves enduring any uncertainty and confusion that results from dropping those assumptions, without trying to mask it just because one feels uncomfortable with it. In other words, you willingly leave the safe haven of beliefs and assumptions, and agree to stay in this groundless, uncertain state for however long it takes to find what you seek, without even knowing what it is exactly - because how could you know it with all the wrong views you still have. This particular aspect of Zen seems pretty aligned with the approach expounded by HH.
@@cliffmilbrun2803 Doubt is better translated as "probing inquiry", it isn't the same as the Pāli vicikicchā. If anyone is familiar with Zen and Theravada your conclusion happens all the time, and it's due to jumping to conclusions.
Does anyone know the sutta number that Venerable Thaniyo spoke about?
I got you. It's AN 9.41 Tapussasutta.
Shraddha literally means "Respect". Respect automatically comes as a result of sense restraint.
Hi, I made some comments that could be interpreted as faithless on reddit a few weeks ago. I was under a bit of pressure when I wrote them, sorry if there were any bad vibes, likely I'm just being presumptuous, but it beats the alternative.
once you stop thinking like "If I went to the shops to get the thing I could get rid of this pressure" and start thinking like "im so safe, the shops are all the way over there, what a bother it would be to try and chase it" it goes from mostly horrible to easy.
if you can put the contexts in the right order in jivaka sutta its worth it. 1)mara's domain 2) necessary evil 3) a few caveats to make it better. its a pretty obvious example of not mine. instead you guys even used the "its a timeless dharma" cross referencing once, the kind of thing you normally call out as a cover up. without the coverup there's a different reading for Devadatta sutta you can explore too if you want.
there's not really any reason I can see for me to be here any more. thankyou. gl everyone.
Every religion contains some truth... however Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to the Father in Heaven...I encourage everyone to invite Jesus Christ into their hearts and ask him to show you the truth. He stands at your door knocking waiting to be let in.
Is this appropriate or useful? This is a Buddhist space - one that does not accept someone else giving salvation to others. You become liberated through the cultivation of the proper mindset, action, ethics, and faith. Offerings to the Buddha's and sentient beings have far more merit in reality than assuming someone else died for "your" mistakes.