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I was so lucky. When I was putting together the plan for my off-grid solar installation, I nearly pulled the trigger on two LG Chem RESU batteries. At the last minute I went with another brand (which is LFP). Dodged a bullet there.
LFP/Lifepo4 is less likely to have a thermal run away (fire) and has more charge cycles than other lithium based batteries. It just takes up more physical space for the same electrical capacity, so may be less suitable for cars, but is perfect for non mobile storage.
Issues are likely caused by impurities in the cells causing shorts where electricity can flow from negative to positive within the cell through those impurities. It causes a lot of wasted energy and excess heat which directly can lead to fires if the pack continues to be operational.
@PyroShields LFP would be my recommendation for any long term storage or power wall etc. You can charge and discharge about 2x as many cycles compared to traditional lithium cells before battery capacity degrades below 80 to 70% of origional capacity. They are much safer and not prone to run away fires due to different battery chemistry so for that alone it's a big plus. They also work better with solar and renewables because unlike lithium that you ideally want to cycle between 20% - 80% you can do more like 10% - 100% with LFP and the battery is designed to handle that or is fine to stay at 100% charge for awhile without much degradation. This is how they are able to get so many more cycles out of them. So LFP batteries might be slightly heavier or larger as they don't have quite the same density of power, but for a long term storage where space isn't usually much of a limiting factor this trade off is usually a no brainer and far outweighed by the benifits and advantages of the technology. They are also comming down massively in price and usually cheaper to build out into an array if you find a good deal.
Vistra, the facility owner at Moss Landing, is a Texas company -- and they have had multiple fire problems before this one. 😁The batteries that burned are from LG -- a Korean company -- with a poor track record when it comes to fires. 🙂
Could the existing water based fire suppression system at that CA plant worked to put out this fire? I've not been able to read anything about what actually happened with it. Did it function but was not adequate, or did it not even function? Thanks
I have been on site and your description is pretty accurate. This is the site of an old fossil power plant built on the Pacific Ocean as a heat sink. Tesla batteries are to the North of the plant and LG are to the east. This is a bad location for batteries but the grid interface was existing
The lefty eco mob don't like Tesla anymore because of musk buying twitter. No rational dislike of the products. But they will now try and diss Tesla at every opportunity
Well by promoting this type of technology they're culpable, like it or not. The rest of us have been warning about exactly this type of event happening for a long time but you just carry on regardless anyway, with California leading the way.
Hi Electric Viking. Could you please give us viewers information on the fallout of the battery fire. Pollution, effects on residents, EPA response and testing, and some factual information. Would be interesting to see what you think. Thanks
Even a lot of people who remember Lucky Goldstar as a purveyor of electronics in the 1980s that put the K in kuality don't make the connection to the LG (Life's Good) rebranding.🤣 I do, which is why I own zero LG products.
Thanks for some pictures of the actual plant and fire. I find it confusing when you're talking about batteries indoors while showing pictures of batteries outdoors. I'd prefer real news, not filler pictures, however well produced.
Given the risk of fires, why do they put the batteries so close together in these grid-scale facilities? Why not put fire-resistant fences between them? Surely the extra footprint and costs would be peanuts compared with the whole site going up in flames rather than just one or two cabinets.
Trust me, when those things go you're going to need an awful lot more than a fire resistant fence. These things have no place until they find a way to make them totally safe.
State of the art is to have the containers in an open space with enough distance so you can let burn down one without the neighbors catching fire. The only thing firefighters have to provide is some cooling to protect the next container. Why hasn’t this been done here?
That's exactly how the Tesla batteries were installed at the same site. The first batch of those LG Chem batteries didn't follow any of those protocols. Goes to show the competency of the engineering team at the time. It was common sense. Worse yet, when problems arise, nothing was done to retrofit and negate these problems on existing older systems.
Why show Tesla batteries when it’s not Tesla. More and more of your videos do not align with the audio. Suggest you show less video, relevant video and more graphs etc to support your audio. I like your channel but I think these steps would enhance your presentation.
It's called stock footage .... When someone makes a video, it's their B-roll and they usually buy what is affordable and available. That's what Sam is doing. Obviously, not a perfect match to the topic.
Thanks for pointing out the inaccuracies in the media reports. One loses faith by the day in the integrity of the mainstream media. These journalists have no shame.
As an ethnic Chinese brought up in the West, I've learnt since very young that there is almost nothing in the western mainstream media that's believable when it comes to topics that touches on anything the West doesn't like.
@@superdvd5Sam Evans is a hack who invents stories to debunk, made even more shameless by his giving truth to lies of his own making. I've just searched 10 top stories on the fire and not a single one of them mentioned Tesla.
Older technologies of lithium ion are indeed quite dangerous when handled improperly. Several newer technologies like LFP are relatively inert or cannot have a runaway fire like that due to their chemistry. In today's day and age though there's absolutely no reason this should of happened. Even with more volital cells, isolation, design of the housings, fire suppression and temperature sensors should easily be able to prevent any serious incidents. Unfortunately it sounds like there was a lot more safety issues going on at the site than just a few faulty batter cells. On a build that big it's only a matter of probability that at least a few cells will be faulty. The fact samsung and LG advise for their battery packs to be installed outside of the home or building and in a separate utility shed away from the site should be very telling. They do not trust their product and I will not be buying from them.
@@DynesLair-kb6qs Sadly, once an investment is made, it takes time to payoff and switch to newer, better technology. There is a cost to removing and installing the better technology. Sometimes it is greed on the part of the company heads to make any change, with this fire, they will probably be looking for funds to upgrade. That we probably will not hear about.
@@DynesLair-kb6qs LFP is hardly newer technology as has been around since 2001. I used them in my custom EV build in 2013 and many others were doing so in 2008. I later moved to LG chem non LFP cells as performance is much better.
I’ve mentioned this once before and got shot down by the green tree hugging and EV loving groups of Australia. It’s now a question with some insurance companies, so they are also aware of the problem.
Used to live close to that area, which is quite beautiful and close to the beach and nature preserves. Had no idea they were storing batteries there -- or even why a company would be allowed to store batteries there. Disastrous fire.
Keep putting the battery units close together. They can catch the next unit on fire, so let’s do it! Also, the cooling systems and fire suppression systems could use much improvement.
"Keep putting the battery units close together. They can catch the next unit on fire, so let’s do it! " Brilliant. Let's call it the California Protocol.
I live across the Bay and thankfully up wind of this Plant Fire. My grid power has been Rock Solid for years thanks to this Battery. I didn't feel the need to add batteries to my home solar install, again thanks to this Huge Battery. I assume power outages and brown outs will happen to us because of this fire. The course of green energy never runs smooth....
The Tesla Batterys they are ( outside the building in a seperate area) did not burn. And the fire was limited the Vistra building .(which was not small) Again the Vistra stuff was seperate from the Tesla installation next to it.
This fire couldn't have happened at worst spot. Moss Landing has an abundunce of rich sea life and the Elkhorn Slough Sanctuary is home to a bushel of otters too.
The fire was at the Vistra Energy storage facility, which uses batteries from LG Chem, not Tesla. The Tesla Megapack battery facility, located adjacent to the Vistra site, remained unaffected by the fire. This clarification was made by several sources, including statements from Elon Musk and reports from journalists covering the incident.
I live near Moss Landing and my son goes to CSUMB (Cal State Uni Monterey Bay). Officials closed down Highway 1 for three or four days. There are concerns about the adjacent farm land. However, everything is back to normal as Highway 1 is now open. Interesting note, the underwater canyon is one the steepest in the world. The water is literally 2000’ near the mouth of Moss Landing.
Very informative and well researched, thanks. Imho they will have to use much more land or have parts of the grid-scale storage facilities underground to prevent whole units to burn down.
Local vegetable field growers are concerned about the fall out and what effect the air quality and surface contamination levels will be on crops. Apparently the local entities aren't sure what to test for so therefore no testing will be done on open air grown crops in the area... so much for ORGANIC grown spinach, lettuce, etc...
This area is a very important marine nursery. Elk-horn slew has a direct passage to the depths of the pacific ocean. Placement is an important consideration when choosing a potential toxic issue with a failure at an infrastructure sight. We saw what happened at Fukushima.
I was kind of shocked that they set it up there but Vistra is a Texas company and someone in California gave them the "green light". Obviously, they saved money by using an old gas facility close to the Bay Area.
Thanks for covering this. I'm in California and I've not seen any quotes or articles blaming Tesla but you're a good researcher I believe you. The last video I saw two days go went into detail showing the layout of that plant. There are three separate battery groups and it actually pointed out that Tesla's group was outside for exactly the reason it's safer. Most likely the reason LG Chem was chosen for these batteries is they're South Korean who is an ally of the US with manufacturing in the US as opposed to China. If you watched any of Trumps speeches yesterday, that's a big deal.
Well, this plant is in California and the owner is Vistra, a Texas company. LG might have been the best choice in regards to price and availability at the time -- so it might have nothing to do with Trump or the trade war. But yes the trade war is heating up.
This is the first I have heard about Tesla being blamed, I live in your area as well. Most likely someone saw pictures from the outside seeing the Tesla battery packs there and figured they were all Tesla packs. there is so much disinformation and misinformation it is becoming hard to know what is true or not.
batteries used in the XPENG G6 USE two types of chemical composition LFP & NMC I know what LFP is, What is NMC is it safe as LFP & whats the difference between LG chem battery & NMC battery chemical composition, this may need further explanation on your site.
NMC means Nickel, Manganese, Cobalt. It's a different chemistry from LFP (lithium, iron phosphate), but still lithium-based. Safety-wise LFP is much better as the risk of "thermal runaway" (which tends to result in fire which is hard to put out due to it creating the oxygen it needs to propagate) is very low. NMC is much worse for fire safety. LFP has significantly lower capacity per unit weight (and volume), which is why it is generally only used in low to medium range (as in miles) cars, while all the long range ones use NMC or some closely related variant. As was mentioned stationary batteries today are almost exclusively LFP, due to better safety and also lower cost (and little to no contentious metals like cobalt) - that LFP requires more volume and weight for equal capacity to a given NMC battery doesn't really matter. The Moss Landing battery that burnt was "old" though, as in before LFP had really caught on and production capacity ramped to useful, economical levels. The different chemistries come in many variants, so an NMC battery from LG may have different percentages of Ni, Mg and Co compared to one from say CATL, Panasonic or Tesla, but they share basic characteristics.
This is how it feels to be a victim of fear, exaggeration, and fake news after a big accident. Learn the lesson of not in turn being the source of fear, fake news and exaggeration if someone else has a big accident
I lived in Monterey County. The repurposing of the old power plant into a battery facility was kept very, very quiet because they knew everyone would object.
The battery manufacturer is not at fault. It is technology that is responsible and the idea that we are green. This is just not the right direction to take, get rid of it. Different and better technology is what we need.
Have you made a footprint calculation of the manufacturing and installation of the battery system you’re looking to install plus the recycling, as well as for the solar panels and anything else you need for the system? Would be very interesting to see how the payback curves look (environmental/emissions ones and financial ones) vs continuing to run on whatever energy source your house had originally.
If you are building a battery at home you need minimum 48kW for 2 days autonomy. Are you considering cells like EVE or Gobel and building your own, like off grid garage channel? Works out 1/3 of the price and you get a proper system.
I won't bet on it. There are numerous reports of fire on EV & smartphones using either LG or Samsung batteries in Korea over the years and both company are still standing today. The Korean government won't/can't let these 2 to fail.
@@lailai7919if companies and governments around the world refuse to accept any BESS system that uses LG Chemical batteries, the South Korean government can do little about that. It’s hard to prop up a company with a huge hit to their reputation and which customers fear.
Anyone for an old Nissan Leaf with NMC batteries and only passive air cooling? I hear they're going cheap! (Actually I didn't check to see if they are NMC, maybe they're the pre-historic NICAD, like Toyota uses!)
No he didn't. If you watched the video, he said battery fires are rare overall, but that the batteries made by this one particular manufacturer seem to be an exception.
@@heronimousbrapson863 Which means that overall they're very common. BYD also have a shocking reputation, probably worse than LG but everybody on the EV side of the fence just keeps sticking their head in the sand and ignoring the warnings, then when it inevitably does happen, try to look for excuses to justify it. The reality is f they are this much of a risk the plant should never have been allowed in the first place, but sadly it will probably take an event with mass deaths before anybody begins to take it all seriously.
@nealmatthews3048 I think Sam is a pretty good bloke at heart but a lot of the statistics and data in his content can be fact checked through various Government Departments and found to be incorrect. Mistakes are bound to happen occasionally with a channel that publishes several times daily, but there are far too many inconsistencies in Sam's data for it to be just mistakes. I am simply just one of many commenters who point out these constant inconsistencies in Sam's data.
We run an Enphase battery system, if the sun is shinning the house just runs off the panels, then draws from the battery if needed, the only time it draws from the grid is when there is no sun, or nighttime. The system does all of this automatically, if there is a grid outage, we normally do not even notice. We live semi rural and have a lot of outages, trees fall on power lines etc etc. So after 25 years of having to put up with this it is great to have this system. Our power bills come down to not much more than the charge for the infrastructure. To us it is not about how long before we get paid back, it is about the convenience and knowing if the grid fails us we will be ok. Best money we ever spent!
The Enphase battery system looks really good. I would say a step up above Tesla's Powerwall. We have an older EnPhase micro inverter solar system. Alas it doesn't work with the newer EnPhase batteries. We would need to replace the inverters and wiring. What makes EnPhase batteries work so well is the micro inverters behind the solar panels. They give the system dispatchable solar. Which makes it possible to balance the solar system with the house load and battery charge/discharge. Powerwalls with monolithic solar inverters have to shutdown charging during the sunny part of the day. Ben Sullins has a video showing this.
@@Right-w6e We've got a small system with battery - it cost about $16K four years ago. We're now a net exporter to the Grid (over the course of a year) and the only charges we usually pay are the fixed fees each month. I'm thinking about adding some more solar panels as we've some spare capacity in the inverter, and we have more confidence in the actual maximum energy production of the panels (versus the estimate our installer gave us and the stated production of the panels). Even on cloudy days the system covers the house consumption during the day - the reason most Americans can't afford the systems is that they are powering very inefficient houses, and so they need very large set ups.
Maybe it would be wise to have your batteries spaced enough distance from your house so if they go up in flames it doesn't take the house with it, regardless of brand or technology. There is a lot of energy in those batteries.
You should mention the names of publications that lie about Tesla imo. And read the exact quote. Something. People need to know who in particular is lying to them.
Sam, with such a great P.V. array, I did wonder why you didn't get a battery as well. I did only 3 months after getting 13.2KW P.V. array, I got a 20KwH Neovolt battery. It's LiFP, seems to tick most boxes. One niggling app issue and they have been ignoring my update requests, however everything else seems great, especially the price. When I can I will double battery size to 40KwH, but retain the grid connection so still a hybrid system. With this much battery, get the free 3 hour power window deal with OVO energy, and fill battery for free daily regardless of weather.
My solar system uses lead acid batteries as primary storage. The battery locker is attached to the house along with an inverter. I recently expanded my solar system by using twelve 100 ah lithium iron batteries. Those batteries I placed inside a cement bunker (dug into the hillside) 50 ft from my house. They are charged by their own set of solar panels and charge controllers with it's own inverter (placed inside a weather tight box, jumped with welding cables 3 ft from the bunker). I then ran a 50 ft long 10 gauge RV power cable from the box to the house. Both sets of batteries/inverters are channeled through a bank of Generac transfer switches. I have two complete and separate systems, with the lithium system safely away from the house and from the forest. I also put a smokestack on top and small vents on the bottom of the battery bunker; if the batteries were to runaway, at least it would be a controlled burn. I used Victron charge controllers, one 3000 watt inverter for 3/4 of the house, one 6000 watt inverter for the rest of the property, and another 3000 watt inverter dedicated to heat water inside an electric water heater (using a 1500 watt element) as a preheater for the propane water heater. I am 99% off grid but still connected to the grid and use only 10 kwh per month from the grid (for a welder, air compressor, lathe). Lithium is a very unstable material, and if it starts on fire, everything goes up in flames.
"The Tesla Elkhorn battery had its own fire in the fall of 2022" from Canary media, This is part of the same Moss Landing area for all those that think Tesla never has any problems with their cells.
One woman who returned form her mothers was outside and her face got severly chemical burned as well as exposed areas of sjin. She had returned for a pet and left again to a destination 100 or so miles away to family
Ideally in a home you want the power pack to be mounted on a concrete wall for safety purposes. Thanks for sharing input of the California battery fire. They are still saying the fire is under investigation at what caused it.
Sam can you put links up in you video to the replay of the previous video you highlight at the end. Which Aussie startup was it and how are they progressing? Thank mate.
Tesla battery produced in the USA is LMC that is highly flammable. LG Chem is Tesla partner in USA. Tesla LFP battery is just repackaged CATL or BYD battery coming from China.
Tesla did not see the light about LFP batteries until they went to China. Tesla copy the Chinese and took their stock to the moon…before Shanghai Tesla were 50/50 that it would not go under…
I don't think it was hundreds less than 20 dangerous fires as far as I could find out, but it was enough to trigger a recall and thousands of batteries were found to be faulty. We got a recall letter in 2022 (?) and LG replaced it very quickly and we got a credit for lost solar storage. I still don't feel 100% safe having another LG .
LG chem were the one that was causing problems for GM. " GM recalls 68,000 electric Chevy Bolts over battery fire concerns " GM has found two reports of injuries due to smoke inhalation. The batteries are manufactured by LG Chem at the South Korean company’s facility in Ochang. "
I’ve read about 5 or 6 reports on this and watched a lot of videos on it NOT one blamed Tesla all said the Tesla battery sire was behind the one what went up and this is the 4 time this site has had problems on this site
Our local news KCRA 3 Sacramento originally had it as a "Battery fire at Moss Landing" later updated as LG Chem battery fire at Moss Landing PG&E! (another first)
These sites need to install the Nexeris "Li-ion Tamer" offgas sensing system; it picks up the DEC's released some time before thermal runaway, giving a chance to shut the power off to the faulty Li-ion batteries, preventing a thermal runaway incident. Fire suppression systems are generally not yet able to successfully extinguish these types of fires.
* Fire destroys *part of* the third biggest battery in the world in California. Design tip - increase spacing, battery management and fire suppression tech.
There are battery spacing requirements in the building code (the fire code/NFPA portion of it), they were in there when I retired a few years ago and had first been put in about a decade before that. It was quickly evolving, too. Not sure how long ago this battery facility was installed
They need to come up with drones that can deploy fire blankets suitable to suppress lithium-ion battery fires. These drones should be automatically activated within seconds of fire igniting, managed by high quality software
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www.resinc.com.au/electricviking
I was so lucky. When I was putting together the plan for my off-grid solar installation, I nearly pulled the trigger on two LG Chem RESU batteries. At the last minute I went with another brand (which is LFP). Dodged a bullet there.
What was the reason you went with LFP?
LFP/Lifepo4 is less likely to have a thermal run away (fire) and has more charge cycles than other lithium based batteries. It just takes up more physical space for the same electrical capacity, so may be less suitable for cars, but is perfect for non mobile storage.
Issues are likely caused by impurities in the cells causing shorts where electricity can flow from negative to positive within the cell through those impurities. It causes a lot of wasted energy and excess heat which directly can lead to fires if the pack continues to be operational.
@ Well what causes impurities in the cells?
@PyroShields LFP would be my recommendation for any long term storage or power wall etc. You can charge and discharge about 2x as many cycles compared to traditional lithium cells before battery capacity degrades below 80 to 70% of origional capacity. They are much safer and not prone to run away fires due to different battery chemistry so for that alone it's a big plus. They also work better with solar and renewables because unlike lithium that you ideally want to cycle between 20% - 80% you can do more like 10% - 100% with LFP and the battery is designed to handle that or is fine to stay at 100% charge for awhile without much degradation. This is how they are able to get so many more cycles out of them. So LFP batteries might be slightly heavier or larger as they don't have quite the same density of power, but for a long term storage where space isn't usually much of a limiting factor this trade off is usually a no brainer and far outweighed by the benifits and advantages of the technology. They are also comming down massively in price and usually cheaper to build out into an array if you find a good deal.
Good reporting on the Moss fire. Love it when reports are fact based and not ideologically driven.
Cheers for simply explaining what no one else seems to reveal or understand
Yes, these alternative news sites are wonderful. The MSM won't cover it.
Vistra, the facility owner at Moss Landing, is a Texas company -- and they have had multiple fire problems before this one. 😁The batteries that burned are from LG -- a Korean company -- with a poor track record when it comes to fires. 🙂
Could the existing water based fire suppression system at that CA plant worked to put out this fire? I've not been able to read anything about what actually happened with it. Did it function but was not adequate, or did it not even function? Thanks
@@markvalery8632 They let it burn because they have no other choice.
As has the big Tesla battery in SA, this one wasnt Tesla, it doessnt mean fires dont happen with Tesla batteries
So probably BYD rebranded as LG?
This guy says Tesla for views!
I have been on site and your description is pretty accurate. This is the site of an old fossil power plant built on the Pacific Ocean as a heat sink. Tesla batteries are to the North of the plant and LG are to the east. This is a bad location for batteries but the grid interface was existing
Exactly.
No kidding? Why am I not surprised.
Well what a surprise, Tesla being blamed for something that has nothing to do with them.🙄😑
Almost as concerning as Tesla taking credit for things in which they had no part. Tesla is garbage owned by trash.
It's California. They make a sport of blaming others.
The lefty eco mob don't like Tesla anymore because of musk buying twitter. No rational dislike of the products. But they will now try and diss Tesla at every opportunity
I wonder if Elon's new position will slow the BS
Well by promoting this type of technology they're culpable, like it or not. The rest of us have been warning about exactly this type of event happening for a long time but you just carry on regardless anyway, with California leading the way.
Hi Electric Viking. Could you please give us viewers information on the fallout of the battery fire. Pollution, effects on residents, EPA response and testing, and some factual information. Would be interesting to see what you think. Thanks
Absolute disaster. Burning rashes persistent uptake in vegation(farm lands in the area for 2000 square miles)
'Status coup report' has a 50 minute report on it
JAIL The EPA Greed LAWS JAIL EPA ALL Lies Of GREED
And the irony is that the 'L' in 'LG' stands for 'Lucky' as in 'Lucky Goldstar' 😂
Even a lot of people who remember Lucky Goldstar as a purveyor of electronics in the 1980s that put the K in kuality don't make the connection to the LG (Life's Good) rebranding.🤣
I do, which is why I own zero LG products.
LG was the result of a merger between Lucky Electronics and Goldstar Appliances, if memory serves...
I always thought LG stood for Low Grade
Goldstar was never anything special, product wise, so they tried to go Lucky - didn't work this time.
I bought a 'Lucky Goldstar' radio cassette player in 1989. It was rather good.
Thanks for some pictures of the actual plant and fire. I find it confusing when you're talking about batteries indoors while showing pictures of batteries outdoors. I'd prefer real news, not filler pictures, however well produced.
Right, the problem happened in the first battery building erected
Given the risk of fires, why do they put the batteries so close together in these grid-scale facilities? Why not put fire-resistant fences between them? Surely the extra footprint and costs would be peanuts compared with the whole site going up in flames rather than just one or two cabinets.
Trust me, when those things go you're going to need an awful lot more than a fire resistant fence. These things have no place until they find a way to make them totally safe.
State of the art is to have the containers in an open space with enough distance so you can let burn down one without the neighbors catching fire.
The only thing firefighters have to provide is some cooling to protect the next container.
Why hasn’t this been done here?
That's exactly how the Tesla batteries were installed at the same site. The first batch of those LG Chem batteries didn't follow any of those protocols. Goes to show the competency of the engineering team at the time. It was common sense. Worse yet, when problems arise, nothing was done to retrofit and negate these problems on existing older systems.
I think you're right about this!! You pointed out everything to prove it.
Have you seen an oil drilling site burning? Now that is difficult to put out.
In Kuwait it took nearly a year to put out the 700 well fires from sabotage at the end of the Iraq invasion.
In Soviet Uzbekistan they had to use a 30 kt nuke to stop a natural gas well fire that went on for 1074 days.
@@5353Jumper yes due to them being blown up deliberately. These battery stations don't need to be targeted they self combust
@@5353Jumper Lots of time an airplane motor was used to literally blow out the fire ...
Not like for like
Why show Tesla batteries when it’s not Tesla. More and more of your videos do not align with the audio. Suggest you show less video, relevant video and more graphs etc to support your audio. I like your channel but I think these steps would enhance your presentation.
It's called stock footage .... When someone makes a video, it's their B-roll and they usually buy what is affordable and available. That's what Sam is doing. Obviously, not a perfect match to the topic.
Thanks for pointing out the inaccuracies in the media reports. One loses faith by the day in the integrity of the mainstream media. These journalists have no shame.
As an ethnic Chinese brought up in the West, I've learnt since very young that there is almost nothing in the western mainstream media that's believable when it comes to topics that touches on anything the West doesn't like.
All reports I read listed the batteries as being manufactured by LG Chem
@@superdvd5Sam Evans is a hack who invents stories to debunk, made even more shameless by his giving truth to lies of his own making. I've just searched 10 top stories on the fire and not a single one of them mentioned Tesla.
He's the only one I heard that said Tesla is being blamed. Not saying someone is not I just have not seen it. F Elon.
Yeah! This was a successful battery fire. How could the media get that backwards?
Good to hear that you will include battery storage in your system. Please relate and review your options and choices with us. Thanks
Note, most insurers will not insure commercial buildings with lithium battery storage due to fire risks. They are very aware of the risks.
Yet nearly all those house fires that make the news are never from home storage batteries
Older technologies of lithium ion are indeed quite dangerous when handled improperly. Several newer technologies like LFP are relatively inert or cannot have a runaway fire like that due to their chemistry. In today's day and age though there's absolutely no reason this should of happened. Even with more volital cells, isolation, design of the housings, fire suppression and temperature sensors should easily be able to prevent any serious incidents. Unfortunately it sounds like there was a lot more safety issues going on at the site than just a few faulty batter cells. On a build that big it's only a matter of probability that at least a few cells will be faulty. The fact samsung and LG advise for their battery packs to be installed outside of the home or building and in a separate utility shed away from the site should be very telling. They do not trust their product and I will not be buying from them.
@@DynesLair-kb6qs Sadly, once an investment is made, it takes time to payoff and switch to newer, better technology. There is a cost to removing and installing the better technology. Sometimes it is greed on the part of the company heads to make any change, with this fire, they will probably be looking for funds to upgrade. That we probably will not hear about.
@@DynesLair-kb6qs LFP is hardly newer technology as has been around since 2001. I used them in my custom EV build in 2013 and many others were doing so in 2008. I later moved to LG chem non LFP cells as performance is much better.
I’ve mentioned this once before and got shot down by the green tree hugging and EV loving groups of Australia. It’s now a question with some insurance companies, so they are also aware of the problem.
Thanks for this critical information.
Used to live close to that area, which is quite beautiful and close to the beach and nature preserves. Had no idea they were storing batteries there -- or even why a company would be allowed to store batteries there. Disastrous fire.
Its grid scale storage battery
Because the infrastructure was already there from the shut down power plant, makes good sense!
Keep putting the battery units close together. They can catch the next unit on fire, so let’s do it!
Also, the cooling systems and fire suppression systems could use much improvement.
"Keep putting the battery units close together. They can catch the next unit on fire, so let’s do it! "
Brilliant. Let's call it the California Protocol.
What are the fire statistics for LFP battery storage? Thanks
I live across the Bay and thankfully up wind of this Plant Fire. My grid power has been Rock Solid for years thanks to this Battery. I didn't feel the need to add batteries to my home solar install, again thanks to this Huge Battery. I assume power outages and brown outs will happen to us because of this fire. The course of green energy never runs smooth....
The Tesla Batterys they are ( outside the building in a seperate area) did not burn. And the fire was limited the Vistra building .(which was not small) Again the Vistra stuff was seperate from the Tesla installation next to it.
This fire couldn't have happened at worst spot. Moss Landing has an abundunce of rich sea life and the Elkhorn Slough Sanctuary is home to a bushel of otters too.
I didn't know otters grew in bunches 😁
The fire was at the Vistra Energy storage facility, which uses batteries from LG Chem, not Tesla. The Tesla Megapack battery facility, located adjacent to the Vistra site, remained unaffected by the fire. This clarification was made by several sources, including statements from Elon Musk and reports from journalists covering the incident.
I live near Moss Landing and my son goes to CSUMB (Cal State Uni Monterey Bay). Officials closed down Highway 1 for three or four days. There are concerns about the adjacent farm land. However, everything is back to normal as Highway 1 is now open. Interesting note, the underwater canyon is one the steepest in the world. The water is literally 2000’ near the mouth of Moss Landing.
Very informative and well researched, thanks. Imho they will have to use much more land or have parts of the grid-scale storage facilities underground to prevent whole units to burn down.
Local vegetable field growers are concerned about the fall out and what effect the air quality and surface contamination levels will be on crops. Apparently the local entities aren't sure what to test for so therefore no testing will be done on open air grown crops in the area... so much for ORGANIC grown spinach, lettuce, etc...
This area is a very important marine nursery. Elk-horn slew has a direct passage to the depths of the pacific ocean. Placement is an important consideration when choosing a potential toxic issue with a failure at an infrastructure sight. We saw what happened at Fukushima.
I was kind of shocked that they set it up there but Vistra is a Texas company and someone in California gave them the "green light". Obviously, they saved money by using an old gas facility close to the Bay Area.
Idiot ignorant officials
thank you
I recommend Pylontech LFP batteries for home use. I've had them at home for over 2 years and they haven't caught fire yet. 🙂
Thanks for covering this. I'm in California and I've not seen any quotes or articles blaming Tesla but you're a good researcher I believe you. The last video I saw two days go went into detail showing the layout of that plant. There are three separate battery groups and it actually pointed out that Tesla's group was outside for exactly the reason it's safer. Most likely the reason LG Chem was chosen for these batteries is they're South Korean who is an ally of the US with manufacturing in the US as opposed to China. If you watched any of Trumps speeches yesterday, that's a big deal.
Sk politicians -are allied- report to uaassss politicians.
Nameeriicans business community are ally of China.
That's the reality on the ground.
Well, this plant is in California and the owner is Vistra, a Texas company. LG might have been the best choice in regards to price and availability at the time -- so it might have nothing to do with Trump or the trade war. But yes the trade war is heating up.
@@randygraham926 This plant was started in 2018, Trump was in office.
WRT batteries and building fires, it is possible to reduce the risk, simply by positioning the batteries some distance from the building.
Our beautiful clean green future.
I live 30 miles from Moss Landing. None of the news here mentioned Tesla. The company is owned by a Texas company, I believe.
This is the first I have heard about Tesla being blamed, I live in your area as well. Most likely someone saw pictures from the outside seeing the Tesla battery packs there and figured they were all Tesla packs. there is so much disinformation and misinformation it is becoming hard to know what is true or not.
It was a power storage battery arrangement to be used by the power companies. These batteries were not to be used in Teslas.
Google quote: "The Moss Landing battery project in California cost an estimated $560 million. The project is owned and operated by Vistra Energy."
batteries used in the XPENG G6 USE two types of chemical composition LFP & NMC I know what LFP is, What is NMC is it safe as LFP & whats the difference between LG chem battery & NMC battery chemical composition, this may need further explanation on your site.
NMC means Nickel, Manganese, Cobalt. It's a different chemistry from LFP (lithium, iron phosphate), but still lithium-based. Safety-wise LFP is much better as the risk of "thermal runaway" (which tends to result in fire which is hard to put out due to it creating the oxygen it needs to propagate) is very low. NMC is much worse for fire safety. LFP has significantly lower capacity per unit weight (and volume), which is why it is generally only used in low to medium range (as in miles) cars, while all the long range ones use NMC or some closely related variant. As was mentioned stationary batteries today are almost exclusively LFP, due to better safety and also lower cost (and little to no contentious metals like cobalt) - that LFP requires more volume and weight for equal capacity to a given NMC battery doesn't really matter.
The Moss Landing battery that burnt was "old" though, as in before LFP had really caught on and production capacity ramped to useful, economical levels.
The different chemistries come in many variants, so an NMC battery from LG may have different percentages of Ni, Mg and Co compared to one from say CATL, Panasonic or Tesla, but they share basic characteristics.
We all need to give our undying support for (the maker of that ev) bc they and their leader are doing nothing but looking out for our well-being.
Thousands of square miles are contaminated because of Lithium batteries
This is how it feels to be a victim of fear, exaggeration, and fake news after a big accident. Learn the lesson of not in turn being the source of fear, fake news and exaggeration if someone else has a big accident
Make sure to get your fire insurance updated if you fit batteries
if not updated, the risk is not covered; if updated the company will cancel the insurance policy (if You´re lucky they just increase the premium)
Thanks for sharing this info
And mainstream media keeps whining about 'why don't people listen to us anymore'. Completely untrustworthy
A battery costs billions of Dollars. I thought such a large battery would have made the news , when it was built.
I lived in Monterey County. The repurposing of the old power plant into a battery facility was kept very, very quiet because they knew everyone would object.
The battery manufacturer is not at fault. It is technology that is responsible and the idea that we are green. This is just not the right direction to take, get rid of it. Different and better technology is what we need.
Have you made a footprint calculation of the manufacturing and installation of the battery system you’re looking to install plus the recycling, as well as for the solar panels and anything else you need for the system?
Would be very interesting to see how the payback curves look (environmental/emissions ones and financial ones) vs continuing to run on whatever energy source your house had originally.
Include cost of capital and depreciation: result ongoing losses relative to original, except for unusual circumstances.
Has there ever been recall on Petrol?
EVs are Doomed, Way, way too dangerous. These are Not for my Family
If you are building a battery at home you need minimum 48kW for 2 days autonomy. Are you considering cells like EVE or Gobel and building your own, like off grid garage channel? Works out 1/3 of the price and you get a proper system.
Each big cluster of batteries should be mounted in rails, in a way they could be quickly moved OUT of the building in case a fire breaks out.
LG are going to be lucky to survive this.
I won't bet on it. There are numerous reports of fire on EV & smartphones using either LG or Samsung batteries in Korea over the years and both company are still standing today. The Korean government won't/can't let these 2 to fail.
Lg products best battery
@@lailai7919if companies and governments around the world refuse to accept any BESS system that uses LG Chemical batteries, the South Korean government can do little about that. It’s hard to prop up a company with a huge hit to their reputation and which customers fear.
@ In your dreams.
Interesting information, I must check the manufacturer of my baddery.
Toxic Change!
Anyone for an old Nissan Leaf with NMC batteries and only passive air cooling? I hear they're going cheap! (Actually I didn't check to see if they are NMC, maybe they're the pre-historic NICAD, like Toyota uses!)
What a turnaround. Just last year Sam was telling us that battery fires are very rare, now he’s saying they’re common.
No he didn't. If you watched the video, he said battery fires are rare overall, but that the batteries made by this one particular manufacturer seem to be an exception.
@@heronimousbrapson863 Which means that overall they're very common. BYD also have a shocking reputation, probably worse than LG but everybody on the EV side of the fence just keeps sticking their head in the sand and ignoring the warnings, then when it inevitably does happen, try to look for excuses to justify it. The reality is f they are this much of a risk the plant should never have been allowed in the first place, but sadly it will probably take an event with mass deaths before anybody begins to take it all seriously.
Gosh, if only there were clues about why you might be misrepresenting Sam.
Other than your screen name, of course.
@nealmatthews3048 I think Sam is a pretty good bloke at heart but a lot of the statistics and data in his content can be fact checked through various Government Departments and found to be incorrect. Mistakes are bound to happen occasionally with a channel that publishes several times daily, but there are far too many inconsistencies in Sam's data for it to be just mistakes. I am simply just one of many commenters who point out these constant inconsistencies in Sam's data.
We run an Enphase battery system, if the sun is shinning the house just runs off the panels, then draws from the battery if needed, the only time it draws from the grid is when there is no sun, or nighttime. The system does all of this automatically, if there is a grid outage, we normally do not even notice. We live semi rural and have a lot of outages, trees fall on power lines etc etc. So after 25 years of having to put up with this it is great to have this system. Our power bills come down to not much more than the charge for the infrastructure. To us it is not about how long before we get paid back, it is about the convenience and knowing if the grid fails us we will be ok. Best money we ever spent!
Great, unfortunately solar with a home storage battery is far too expensive for most people.
The Enphase battery system looks really good. I would say a step up above Tesla's Powerwall. We have an older EnPhase micro inverter solar system. Alas it doesn't work with the newer EnPhase batteries. We would need to replace the inverters and wiring. What makes EnPhase batteries work so well is the micro inverters behind the solar panels. They give the system dispatchable solar. Which makes it possible to balance the solar system with the house load and battery charge/discharge. Powerwalls with monolithic solar inverters have to shutdown charging during the sunny part of the day. Ben Sullins has a video showing this.
If you have a powerpack why are you still drawing power from the grid?
Shining. If the sun is shining.
@@Right-w6e We've got a small system with battery - it cost about $16K four years ago. We're now a net exporter to the Grid (over the course of a year) and the only charges we usually pay are the fixed fees each month. I'm thinking about adding some more solar panels as we've some spare capacity in the inverter, and we have more confidence in the actual maximum energy production of the panels (versus the estimate our installer gave us and the stated production of the panels). Even on cloudy days the system covers the house consumption during the day - the reason most Americans can't afford the systems is that they are powering very inefficient houses, and so they need very large set ups.
Note the thermal runaway temperature of LFP is higher, not lower
Maybe it would be wise to have your batteries spaced enough distance from your house so if they go up in flames it doesn't take the house with it, regardless of brand or technology. There is a lot of energy in those batteries.
You should mention the names of publications that lie about Tesla imo. And read the exact quote. Something. People need to know who in particular is lying to them.
Sam, with such a great P.V. array, I did wonder why you didn't get a battery as well. I did only 3 months after getting 13.2KW P.V. array, I got a 20KwH Neovolt battery. It's LiFP, seems to tick most boxes. One niggling app issue and they have been ignoring my update requests, however everything else seems great, especially the price. When I can I will double battery size to 40KwH, but retain the grid connection so still a hybrid system. With this much battery, get the free 3 hour power window deal with OVO energy, and fill battery for free daily regardless of weather.
My solar system uses lead acid batteries as primary storage. The battery locker is attached to the house along with an inverter. I recently expanded my solar system by using twelve 100 ah lithium iron batteries. Those batteries I placed inside a cement bunker (dug into the hillside) 50 ft from my house. They are charged by their own set of solar panels and charge controllers with it's own inverter (placed inside a weather tight box, jumped with welding cables 3 ft from the bunker). I then ran a 50 ft long 10 gauge RV power cable from the box to the house. Both sets of batteries/inverters are channeled through a bank of Generac transfer switches. I have two complete and separate systems, with the lithium system safely away from the house and from the forest. I also put a smokestack on top and small vents on the bottom of the battery bunker; if the batteries were to runaway, at least it would be a controlled burn. I used Victron charge controllers, one 3000 watt inverter for 3/4 of the house, one 6000 watt inverter for the rest of the property, and another 3000 watt inverter dedicated to heat water inside an electric water heater (using a 1500 watt element) as a preheater for the propane water heater. I am 99% off grid but still connected to the grid and use only 10 kwh per month from the grid (for a welder, air compressor, lathe). Lithium is a very unstable material, and if it starts on fire, everything goes up in flames.
"The Tesla Elkhorn battery had its own fire in the fall of 2022" from Canary media, This is part of the same Moss Landing area for all those that think Tesla never has any problems with their cells.
Interesting that Tesla uses LGChem’s battery in their M3/Y AWD models but have rarely had fires. Makes owners a tad uncomfortable.
Uhh, those catch fire too. And when they do...spectacular!
thise fire was green ???
Even if it wasn't the fault of the battery or operator imagine the toxic waste from that fire.
And they put it in a wildlife reserve.......🤡show
Don't worry paper straws will save us
@S3W3RRATT should take reasonable steps to look after the environment. If they are the same price why not?
Appreciate your Truth
Petroleum we catch on fire on purpose and accept it as normal. This fire is a growing pain but we can overcome it.
Anyone storing gasoline near their home is also asking for trouble. That's why I always park my ICE car on the street, far enough away from my home.
One woman who returned form her mothers was outside and her face got severly chemical burned as well as exposed areas of sjin. She had returned for a pet and left again to a destination 100 or so miles away to family
Ideally in a home you want the power pack to be mounted on a concrete wall for safety purposes. Thanks for sharing input of the California battery fire. They are still saying the fire is under investigation at what caused it.
And that concrete wall well away from your home. And your home resistant to embers.
@ Powerpacks are built in homes not far away. Not sure where you think they would be mounted.
Sam can you put links up in you video to the replay of the previous video you highlight at the end. Which Aussie startup was it and how are they progressing?
Thank mate.
I can sense a Tesla storage utility battery opportunity knocking.
Tesla battery produced in the USA is LMC that is highly flammable. LG Chem is Tesla partner in USA.
Tesla LFP battery is just repackaged CATL or BYD battery coming from China.
Tesla Powerwall v3 are LFP, i believe that earlier versions weren't
Tesla did not see the light about LFP batteries until they went to China. Tesla copy the Chinese and took their stock to the moon…before Shanghai Tesla were 50/50 that it would not go under…
It doesn't matter what caused it, bags full of toxic, inflammable chemicals is probably not a great idea....
I don't think it was hundreds less than 20 dangerous fires as far as I could find out, but it was enough to trigger a recall and thousands of batteries were found to be faulty. We got a recall letter in 2022 (?) and LG replaced it very quickly and we got a credit for lost solar storage. I still don't feel 100% safe having another LG .
What battery is in the 2025 long range Tesla model Y?
LINKS please,, 🥺.. who exactly is saying that? Is it just a few posts? 1,000 posts? .. details and facts matter
LG chem were the one that was causing problems for GM.
" GM recalls 68,000 electric Chevy Bolts over battery fire concerns "
GM has found two reports of injuries due to smoke inhalation. The batteries are manufactured by LG Chem at the South Korean company’s facility in Ochang. "
GM still has LG Chem batteries in well over 100k Chevy Bolts to this day. They fast charge really slow, but they run just great!
@@dennislyon5412 They discontinued The Chevy Bolt because of the batteries.
@ - don’t say discontinued - it’s coming back this year, supposedly.
Add that to forward depreciation schedule and rate of return.
I’ve read about 5 or 6 reports on this and watched a lot of videos on it NOT one blamed Tesla all said the Tesla battery sire was behind the one what went up and this is the 4 time this site has had problems on this site
A statement saying that battery fires 🔥 are extremely rear is a kin to saying I'm giving up smoking
I hope to hear more about Bluetti Na solar storage batteries, is the company Australian-owned?
If you want to go one better then LFP batteries, go LTO Lithium Titanate Oxide, down side you will have to built them yourself
I saw the picture and I started singing, "smoke gets in your eyes"
Our local news KCRA 3 Sacramento originally had it as a "Battery fire at Moss Landing" later updated as LG Chem battery fire at Moss Landing PG&E! (another first)
No fire but I have had to have LG battery modules in my car replaced 3 times. All under warranty but I had to pay for 8 days of car rental 3 times.
Must be a GM, which model?
Eight days to replace a battery pack?
Each time. VW 2021 model from Europe. They started using SK when they started making them in Tennessee.
It would seem that the foam fire fighting tool could put those fires out!??
I bet their fire insurance wasn't cancelled just before the fire.
LG Chem ✅ Certified not national security risk.
I could swear that I read that Tesla has contracted with LG for car batteries.
These sites need to install the Nexeris "Li-ion Tamer" offgas sensing system; it picks up the DEC's released some time before thermal runaway, giving a chance to shut the power off to the faulty Li-ion batteries, preventing a thermal runaway incident. Fire suppression systems are generally not yet able to successfully extinguish these types of fires.
Iron flow batteries are our best option for long duration energy storage.
Monter-Ayyyyy :)
* Fire destroys *part of* the third biggest battery in the world in California.
Design tip - increase spacing, battery management and fire suppression tech.
So far, their is no fire suppression tech. that works. Once it starts, they just let it burn out, using water to keep nearby areas from catching fire.
There is no fire suppression that works yet.
That is what is good about Tesla mega packs. They are spaced out, and not in a building, each one with its own fire suppression
There are battery spacing requirements in the building code (the fire code/NFPA portion of it), they were in there when I retired a few years ago and had first been put in about a decade before that. It was quickly evolving, too. Not sure how long ago this battery facility was installed
I wish Leon would go back where he came from
They need to come up with drones that can deploy fire blankets suitable to suppress lithium-ion battery fires. These drones should be automatically activated within seconds of fire igniting, managed by high quality software
No, it did not. The gas power plant building was the only building affected.
I'm leasing a 2024 Equinox EV. The GM Ultium batteries are NMCA cells, a joint venture of GM-LG. Should I be concerned?