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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2024
- What are the biggest culture shocks that internationals, expats, and foreigners experience in the Netherlands?
Culture shocks happen when we experience a culture that is different from own our own. They could be positive or negative shocks. From Dutch lunches to agendas, let's hear from some internationals.
Take care =)
David
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⚡What are the biggest culture shocks you've experienced in the Netherlands? 🇳🇱
none. they are exactly like british people
As a Dutch person, I experienced a reverse culture shock when coming back to the Netherlands, after a year in Romania in Eastern Europe. There was so much real poverty in Romania. We lived on a small income for our standards, but a huge for theirs. Being Dutch, I was raised with being frugal as a smart value. Waste not, want not.
Coming back to Schiphol, Amsterdam international airport, I was shocked by the new state of the cars. Kept on wondering why people would spend SO much money on just a car, when a second hand of 5000,- maximum would bring you from A to B just as well. And here I saw cars of 20.000 Euros and also much above. And so many of them. Not very frugal :)
It is directness. Not honesty. Honesty is being honest of not. And directness is not arrogance. But we know that like for ex in the Holland (N and Z) directness is sometimes arrogance. Offending even…Compare Brabant and Limburg with Holland with Drenthe….And each individu is different…
ASK HER ABOUT THE FOOD !
I returned to Netherlands after having lived for 15 years in Switzerland. I was shocked by the chaos, the high taxes, the polarization, the high costs and low wages and the bad weather. After 1 year I decided to move back again to Switzerland. Meanwhile Netherlands is facing 12 different crisis. And it doesn’t surprise me one bit. Sad to see a country deteriorating at such rapid pace.
I'll say something opposite to the video's subject. This is something I realized after 20 years of living in the Netherlands.
Living in the Netherlands resembles their almost always impeccable roads. For every road, there is a pedestrian, bicycle, and car/motorcycle lanes. You can go anywhere you want and in any fashion you want - just stay within these lanes.
These lanes (and rules) are not there to restrict you. They are to ensure that everyone, including you, can reach their desired destination in the most comfortable/enjoyable/safest/stress-free/choose-whatever-you-want way.
Thanks Helena. I can see that too and read up on research that the infrastructure is designed to connect everything together (bike lanes to public transportation).
Very nicely said
Yes the roads always seem really nice , even with all the rain!
Me, Dutch woman, watching this clip where this Aussie explains what according to him this 'Dutch directness' is. And all the time I am watching this lovely guy trying his best to explain, I think to myself:
'Come on man! It takes ages for you to explain how your country uses at least 3 lines in email to say sorry for not meeting a deadline!
He could have said that in one sentence!'.
🤣
Haha perhaps this is a good example of the difference in communication styles? He is a good guy
@@hidavidwen He is very cute and lovely indeed.
He was communicating a whole range of emotions, insecurity, pride, humility, confusion, as well as comparing and contrasting the two letter writing styles. Only 7% of communication is done using the literal words. The reason is that Australian is a (relative to Dutch) "high context" culture and Dutch is a "low context" culture.
I am dutch, i had the same!! Ha ha
Dutch here haha me too, I thought Bro, wtf are you trying to tell here.. :-) ? But he's OK guy for sure.
I never liked the term "Dutch directness", I like to call it "Dutch honesty". Most foreigners are not used, in their culture, to get an actual honest clear answer on their question.
We zijn zo trots op ons landje, zelfs onze directheid moet als eerlijkheid worden verkocht ;)
Being Dutch, I find it somewhat surprising that we are considered to be very direct, since I feel many, if not most Dutch tend to not be as direct or honest as they could be (not necessarily should be, but perhaps). For example, when asked whether they liked something, the worst you will usually hear as a reply usually might be "well, it wasn't the greatest" which technically speaking could mean anything including really good or average. I get that that's not what they mean to say, of course. But given the above, it makes me wonder, do people in other countries just flat out lie or tell the complete opposite? IF the example I just gave is considered to be quite direct (and obviously it's just 1 example) I don't see many ways how you could be less direct without just telling something that's the opposite of what you think, which I would consider more insulting than any opinion on any matter.
Paradise for autistic people like me
I think it should be ‘Dutch bluntness’.
I am Dutch and always have to laugh about other Dutch describing this as “we are just being honest”, whereas it’s just a lack of manners and being rude.
The Australian guy is right about the reversed culture shock. I remember applying for a job in a ski field in New Zealand, in the area of 'mount Doom'😉. They told me: 'we will call you back.' As a Dutch person I expect you to do so, even if I didn't get the job. I experienced the not calling back as rude. Please be honest and say: if your application was successful we will call you within a week. But that is me being Dutch. And: I hate agendas and full schedules and love people dropping by spontaneously 🥰🍀👍🍀
I got careful to say Dutch are like "this or like that". I lived 4 years in Amsterdam and now I am living also 4 years in the same country, working in Maastricht, and really the whole "way of life", food, traditions, language and culture in general are so different, I was so surprised, had to learn all over again.
there are no dutch ppl in amsterdam
@@r.a.h7682 no Dutch people in Maastricht either ;-)
Thanks for sharing! I also lived in Amsterdam and Maastricht, so I know what you mean!
There are distinct regional differences.
@@IvoTichelaar 🤣
Ik ben duitser en leef in Spanje. Doordat ik Noordduitsland ken, ben ik overtuigd dat het leven in Nederland niet zo anders is. Mijn relatie met de land en de mensen is een gevoel van vertrouwdheed. Darom heb ik een sterke relatie met Nederland. Hier in Spanje heb ik ook nederlandse vrienden meer dan out Zuidduitsland.
Mijn ouders leven als Nederlanders in Noord Duitsland en ik heb inderdaad maar kleine cultuurverschillen gevonden. Er zijn er natuurlijk een paar, zoals de uitgebreide regelgeving. Ook zie je in Duitsland heel sterk rangen en standen terug, terwijl in Nederland men zich hier niet erg om bekommerd. Ik vind het overigens enorm dapper dat u in het Nederlands geschreven heeft, mijn Duits is niet zo goed. (ik versta en spreek Duits, maar kan het niet schrijven)
Vind ik ook!
Toch, ik heb meer dan 20 jaar in Noordduitsland gewoond. En nu ben ik in Noord-Nederland. Ik beleef de mensen vaak anders.
The difference between Dutch breakfast and lunch is 4 hours
Haha thanks Roland 😄🍞🥪
4? I eat my breakfast at 7 and lunch at 12:30. At 9:30 I eat a "tussendoortje" that contains a nice, juicy apple.
@@Sweettweety666 Same! Except instead of an apple, my "tussendoortje" is usually some coffee and a few cookies haha. 🍪
I'm Dutch and a Dutch lunch still is a shock to me. We do not do this well!
Haha thanks for sharing. I’ve learned it is all about simplicity and efficiency!
Broodje kaas.. tog lekker??
😅😂🥪🥛
I think that it would help if expats would take the time to learn Dutch. They would understand the nuances of the language more and might see that some things said in English, do not come across as hard of direct in Dutch. Although a lot of Dutch speak good English, they tend to translate the Dutch directly in English and nine out of 10 times it loses all nuance. With regard to the planning, that's efficiency/time management...🙂
Thanks Natascha. True. The Dutch make it hard because everyone is so good at English! It makes practicing really hard when they switch as soon as they know you are not native. But true, I also think it’s important to keep trying and learning
A fresh whole grain slice of bread with a crispy crust, topped with freshly sliced young matured cheese is heaven and no fancy (warm) lunch can top that.
There, I said it.
I'm sorry but as an Italian living in The Netherlands... NO!
Try a 300 gram rump steak for lunch.
Haha 🍞🍞🍞🧀🧀🧀🤤
@@elenaspano5067 😂 I’m American and one slide of bread with one or two slices of cold cheese on it would not be a great lunch for me either.
@@ragland9658 I am Dutch and I have lived and worked in the USA.
I totally agree with you that a lunch of american bread and american cheese is not very appealing.
Dutch bread with Dutch cheese is a complete different story. Many times we will also have some yoghurt or fruit. There are also many alternatives for cheese. All kinds of meat like: ham, pepperoni, sausage, bacon, variations of sliced chicken, beef and porcmeat.
Then there are all kinds of spreads: variations of humus, sandwich spread and all the sweet stuff: variations of chocolate sprinkles, anice sprinkles, jams, jellies, chocolate pastes, caramel paste, variations peanutbutter, apple syrupe, honey.
And then there are also variations ln the bread. Dark and ligth rye bread, variations of raisin and current breads, knackebrot, poppyseed bread.
And sometimes people will bring in a salade.
Thank you for another excellent episode!
I think there's a key to Dutch 'directness'. It's 'don't ask questions you don't like answered'. You're all free to ponder that.
In my opinion our directness is coming from a place of being scared to be, seem or act fake. We tend to be direct with co-workers and acquaintances. With close friends and family it's different although our humor tends to be a bit dry and condescending toward each other. I'm from the north where it's even more noticeable.
Ah it’d be interesting to go north and experience what the difference is. But yes I now understand its really about being honest
@@hidavidwen The Germans are similar. The English are more sociable and Polite , which does win wars....!
I agree and I like that.
Truly am loving this channel, so subscribed!
Most of the dutch who have a 9 to 5 job have a lunchbreak of 30 minutes. Its easier to bring your own lunch and have diner in the evening.
My wife is also from another country, where the climate is more continental and dry. The weather here was the biggest shock for her. Grey, dark, cloudy, windy and rainy weather for three weeks in november in the first year that she was here. I can imagine that, even I find it depressing sometimes.
This a great input for the dutch culture. Thank you all.
Thank you for this interesting video, it helped me a lot! :)
Does anyone of you expats realize that our true life is in Dutch, not in english? We are pretty good in english, but conversations are kind of superficial, we cannot exactly say what we want to, because we have to translate twice.
Thanks for sharing. Language is key!
Hmmm, I don't know there is an element of truth, but my English and German levels of speaking/understanding are good enough for deeper conversations as well. I'm Dutch, Limburgs. Have to add my English is American military base - based, because I grew up in a certain religion, and there were a lot of American military church members, at that church from the age of 3 and growing up, American/English was the dominant language.
And the German because we live like 15 minutes by car from Germany. Fuel/gas for the car - Germany, also some foods etc. German bread, or with a party - buying things at Kaufmarkt, and the likes. Things that are cheaper in Germany, and: "In Deutschland Spricht man Deutsch."
We also watched German TV, listened to German radio, while growing up.
My question would be have you noticed how much English/American has entered and mixed with the Dutch? Words, expressions, etc.
As Dutch person I talk English more often than Dutch. I use a translator more often for translating from English to Dutch than from Dutch to English.
@@codex4048 Why? Your life must be a little bit deviant from the average Dutch person. That was the reason for me, in Nederland spreken we Nederlands, dat is de officiële taal. En de meeste Nederlanders zijn zeer wel in staat om Engels, Duits, Frans of een andere taal onder de knie te hebben. Hier staat Nederland bekend om als een handelsnatie.
@@schiffelers3944 waarom? Ik weet het niet. Ik sprak op het MBO ook vooral Engels met Nederlandse klasgenoten. Ik denk dat mijn interesses voornamelijk in het Engels gedaan worden. Ik ben software/game ontwikkelaar, en in mijn vrije tijd game ik regelmatig.
Het rare is dat ik op de middelbare school gemiddeld een 3 had voor Engels terwijl ik voor Nederlands een 8 had.
I love the directness! I think that's what make the Netherlands such an international place and a powerful country compared to its size :)
I’ve come to love it too!
I am dutch, and i am everything! And i love it! Dutch people for me are the best! Dutch people like to talk! We talk with everybody. We have fun with everybody in the street, in the train or bus, in the shops. Old, young. It doesnt matter. This is why we smile a lot. We want to make contact. And have fun.
Ha! As a Canadian I fit in quite well. Luv it here.
@@nevada8462 i hope that everybody fits in well! That would be perfect!
@@370amsterdam9 just smiling, lovin life, bumping into trees and lovely people here….
I like how the dutch goes about it, I hate all the sugar coating in the US
Thanks Jose for sharing your opinion
@@hidavidwen You still live out there or have you transitioned to another country?
Britain is like the USA...Kind, sociable, polite and courteous........!
Reading comments here from Dutch audience I didn't realise they were so touchy. " this is not directness this is honesty" 😁😁!
Having "Hundreds and Thousands" on toast really shocked me and when I said I liked baked beans I got a whole plateful on their own for my dinner! This was 50 years ago and I love the Netherlands, returned many times. I was also surprised how teenagers had more freedom than England, everything seemed more relaxed.
Thanks for sharing. Where are you now? I cannot imagine what it was like 50 years ago but very curious to know what has changed in the culture
@@hidavidwen I 'm in England but visiting Amsterdam again next Summer. Spent time in Venlo Limburg living with family friends when I was young.
Dutch friends are usually pretty spontenuous with eachother. Probably these people are so seep in their expat bubble they don't realize they actually don't have any Dutch friends. Most Dutch have time slots available for their real friends to be spontanuous with. The agenda's come out for the extra's, outside regular social life, for the 'peripheral' acquaintances and "friends" people they have pleasant but superficial contact with a few times a year.
Interesting to hear there are planned slots for spontaneity, thanks for sharing Lynott.
@@hidavidwen Also good friends can't waste eachother's time of course :) But yeah, the inner circle of close friends, yes they can just stop by, if it's really inconvenient they will just sit down and wait until I can give them attention or I can kick them out because they are good friends so no hard feelings. I might even improvise with dinner for them if they haven't eaten yet. But you know from eachother when it's working hours or there are family obligations and when it's leisure time.
I expect them to do that, with friends not that close things like that could get complicated because you want to make them feel welcome.
Maybe in your Dutch bubble / younger people bubble but absolutely not is this the norm with an older crowd starting from early 30s onwards. The Dutch ‘agenda’ is a thing for a reason especially for
@@siriussemajo9699 I agree traditionally the Dutch don't like unexpected visitors but if a neighbour or your best friend just pops by that's not really unexpected, just not arranged.
Those people know your schedual a bit and if they come when it's still not suitable they'll accept a 'no, not now' too.
@@DenUitvreter It differs per person tbh. I really dislike it when people come by unannounced, even if it's my parents or my boyfriend. Like, I like having them around, but I would've liked if even more if they had called beforehand xD
But I think you're right that the closer you are to a person, the easier it is to adapt your scedule, because I guess meeting with them just takes less of your energy/gives you energy, so it's just a time investment :P
AH! You filmed this in my city :D Awesome!!
Beautiful city!
Ik vind het ontzettend vervelend als er expats al jaren hier in Nederland leven en werken etc. en geen enkel interesse hebben om ook maar een enkel woord nederlands te leren. Ik vind het buitengewoon vervelend om iedere keer van deze mensen te horen ".. you HAVE ( ! ) ..to talk English with me... " Ik kwam jaren geleden hier in Amsterdam wonen . Ik kwam uit Wenen / Oostenrijk en het eerste wat ik hier deed was : Nederlands leren !!. Dat is en kwestie van beleefdheid en respect voor de gastgevers.. Maar dat kan je blijkbaar niet verwachten van ieder expat. Ik heb buren ( een jong stel expats uit Manchester , die hier werken en hier willen blijven woneen naar jaren geen ekel woord "Dutch " kennen. Kut !!!! ( Overigens ! Ik ben een Mof en zelfs de Moffen zijn vaak beleefder dan wie dan ook tegen de Nederlanders.)😂😉😚😘
Thanks for sharing Gregor. You are admirable. This is probably true of many expats around the world. One “should” but then each person’s context is also very different…their goals, challenges, priorities, etc
@@hidavidwen Het beste middel tegen "cultur shock " is de taal te leren van je gastland als je van plan bent om duurzaam in een land wil komen wonen. Integratie is niet een eenzijdig ding maar moet ook van de " gasten " ( migranten ) gevolgd worden. Anders lukt het op den duur niet. Helaas bestaat hier in de Nederlanden, en vooral !!!! in Amsterdam een , volgens mij, naif misbegrepen " welkom cultur " van ..." HIER MAG ALLES !! DOE MAAR WAT JE Wil ! " Wat een vergissing. Je ziet dagelijks de naare gevolgen . Op die manier hebben we straks hier geen Nederlandse Cultuur meer maar een belachelijk raar Disney-Land. Zolas je dat al in Amsterdam heb. Beste wensen voor 2023 en de komende jaren 😘😘 ( Een Mof, die ontzettend van dit mooie Kikkerland houd en van de grappige taal )😂😂🤭
@@gregorgrotemeier7370 Wat een verademing, ben het zo eens met u! En dan die reactie van David over 'priorities'...in het Engels 🤦🏽♀️ En dan al die Nederlanders die hier reageren... in het Engels 🤦🏽♀️ Mensen vinden het gewoon fijn als ze door buitenlanders worden aangesproken in hun eigen taal, dit is zo universeel! Maar het lijkt wel alsof Nederland multicultureel MOET worden. kHeb zelf regelmatig te maken met expats en sprak ook altijd Engels met ze. Maar ik doe het niet meer. Ben hier in mijn eigen land. Ze verstaan Nederlands heus wel! Zij kunnen beter een voorbeeld aan u nemen! Ik vind Duitsers ❤️overigens de meest beleefde Europeanen, beleefder dan de Fransen, lol. De Britten zijn ook beleefd. Fijne dag, Gregor.
@@gregorgrotemeier7370 Hahaa! Goed gesproken, kerel! Zeker ook dat 'kut'! Ja, serieus: dit zijn ware woorden, des te krachtiger omdat ze van een buitenlander komen. Of eigenlijk ben je dat al haast niet meer... Grappige taal? Hmpf. Nou vooruit, omdat jij het bent!
@@Joylibelle Helemaal met u eens, mevrouw! Ook ik had omgang met 'expats' en ik spreek best behoorlijk Engels, maar ik ben er klaar mee! Ik heb ook deels in het Engels gereageerd hier, maar helaas is dat dan weer nodig om goed tot onze gasten door te dringen...
Another good video, sir!
Thanks Tony!
Hi David, I love your vids! For me as a Dutch person, its helpful and fun to watch how other cultures experience the Dutch. I can highly recommend visiting some of the outskirts in the Netherlands. Because Amsterdam is only one piece of the puzzel. You said in the comments that you already noticed a difference between Amsterdam and Maastricht. In the Netherlands every province is sometimes like visiting another country, people differ from province to province.
Thanks Tom! Yes, I'd love to visit other regions and have plans to do so
@@hidavidwen Just do it David!
GREAT video David!!!
Thanks Laura =)
This fun to see as a Dutch person
Directness in written messages, yes. I honestly really like the point where an e-mail conversation turns from:
"Dear mr. (last name), I'm writing to you regarding (whatever). I'm looking forward to hearing from you. With kind regards, Roozyj."
to just:
"Sounds good. R."
You can't compare Dutch people from Amsterdam to other Dutch people.
While I am in Amsterdam, none of the interviewees are there and their experiences probably include Dutch from around the country (cities though)
@@hidavidwen you should go to the east of the Netherlands
@@daghoor6062 I'm at a cafe planning my travel plans right now. Any recommendations from your side and what to look out for?
@@hidavidwen the bloemencorso in Zutphen and lichtenvoorde are good to visit you can look a video about it just search
Bloemencorso lichtenvoorde
Bloemencorso Zutphen
(This is not every day)
And there are a lot of other things to do and have you been to the efteling a theme park?
It is true that people from the east and south of the Netherlands also experience that shock. So is it not a big city thing? My sister lived in Paris and said the people there were so different from the rest of the country. Rude, direct etc.
I've watched a few of these Netherlands videos, and what shocks me is that no one has mentioned the Dutch stairways. I understand that they are a very economical use of space, but is no one else surprised that they seem to go straight up?
I dont understand.. are our stairways different?
Haha I know what you mean Fred. They're extremely steep. Extremely
Merry Christmas🎅🏻🎄& Happy New Year's 2023
Happy 2023!
I really enjoyed this! I am new to your channel. It was randomly recommended to me. I have not been to the Netherlands, I hope to go one day. I've traveled to a number of countries, but the one in which I experienced the most culture shock was Japan. One positive shock was the cleanliness of the streets. Not a scrap of litter. Coming from the States, it was really weird. The other thing was the exquisite presentation of plated dishes. It was like looking at works of art. Some negatives for me were you can't eat or drink while walking and that some meals have live animals on the plate 😳 Some people at my table one night ordered a dish that included what appeared to be baby octopi and they were moving across the plate😫 The thing I found the funniest was the Japanese to English translations on many things that didn't quite translate correctly 😅
Thanks! Japan is the most organized, cleanest, and on-time place in the world. Plus friendliest people
There is actually one word for the way we communicate and planning. EFFICIENT! 😁 Straight and not around the bush.
Haha yea. One of the first things I think about when I think about the Netherlands…efficiency
Especially compared to here in the UK which is usually a mess
@@birdyflying4240 Well said. I think you're right. The efficiency on a business level it worked very well. But for me, I recognize the way how it's on a personal level. Sometimes we as a society, we have to express ourself more (in a positive way).
Also: cycling is the better option in regards to the environment, because it isn't polluting, like driving a car.
🚴♀️🚴🚴♂️
I'm half Caribbean half Dutch and so I was raised with two cultures where one is very relaxed and can sometimes be very passionate and the other be punctual and direct. So I'm almost always on time, but calm and sometimes I am very passionate and direct... the latter gets me in trouble sometimes, hahahaha.
Dutchie (or Clog as i like to call myself) here: Dutch directness is a funny (and fickle) thing that even dutch people sometimes struggle with, especially when communicating via text. I feel like Dutch directness relies heavily on certain verbal cues in their interpretation, hence why it can be incredibly difficult to interpret text messages in certain situations. For instance: a big part of my communication style is humour and sarcasm, with the occasional heavy handed bluntness we Cloggies are so famous for whenever somehting requires attention. However, sarcasm is a thing you can't pick up in a text message unless specifically highlighted by using emoji's or the like.
Want to wrap it up by saying i like your video's, just discovered them today but i think they give off a good representation of the culture differences!
Dutch directness is an art =) I've come to appreciate it myself
And thanks for the kind words, I've learned a lot and from comments like yours 🙏
I am so happy she picked-up that book @3:39 😅 because it would be a shock for me 😆 if it fell into that river!
Haha I was also scared!
Not really a culture shock.
But it really surprise to me the amount of foreign people living in The Netherlands without speaking a word of Dutch.
Probably because everybody there speak a good level of English.
I sometimes think it is a really good point they all speak English. But on the other hand that is the reason most of the foreigners do not learn Dutch.
It is impossible understanding a culture without speaking their language.
Thanks for sharing Enrique. Yeah the Netherlands has the highest level of English as a second language in the world. It’s one reason why it’s hard to learn Dutch…not an excuse but everyone speaks English at a high level
I’ve known “expats” who’ve been living here 5-10 years without being able to make a coherent sentence in Dutch. I think that’s pretty embarrassing. They contribute nothing to our society honestly, just here for the 💰.
Your last sentence sums it all up, amigo. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing about the Netherlands culture
You’re welcome and thanks for watching!
Interesting to hear about the directness in email. I among other things work as an editor and a writer, and I hired a woman writer from England once who went completely off the rails after I gave her direct feedback on her writing. Se went so far as calling me a scammer because she assumed that because my feedback was critical I wouldn't pay her which wasn't at all the case. After that she just disappeared even though I clarified and explained that's just how I work - I don't like to waste time with niceties. It's never meant in a mean way, I just say things how I see them. Other writers I've worked with that communication works fine with though, my best writer which I'm very happy with is English also.
Thanks for sharing that example! Yeah email communication can be challenging...so many things can be misinterpreted. You may know the book, "The Culture Map,"-so many good examples of miscommunication between cultures =)
The directness, short lunch breaks and tightly planning all the things that need to be done that day is called 'efficiency'. It's about the work/(family)life balance. Be efficient at work hours, have more free time to spend with family and/or friends. Families usually have their family dinner at around 18.00 hours but even singles have dinner at around that same time and than the time for being spontaneous has arrived. It can also be a short message like: 'wanna have dinner with me this evening' and your short answer will be 'yes' or 'sorry I already have other plans, next time'. What amazes me is that nobody sees it as a positive culture shock how tolerant and accepting we are to different cultures, lifestyles and even languages. Not even the gay dude from Brazil mentioned it.
Thanks for sharing. Yep all about efficiency. I do think many like the tolerance of the Netherlands…perhaps many take it for granted because it is so tolerant in many areas? Kind of like how in life…we take for granted many of the positive things we have in life until we are reminded of them…
Dutch directness is probably due to speaking different languages; we are more direct when we speak english. In Dutch there are also a lot of sugar caoting ways to say things with escape words and sentences.
Oh thanks for sharing johan, thank makes sense
Doesn't make sense at all. most direct people live outside the cities. It's about being the best way we can be and making the people around you also the best version of themselfs. without stigma and lipservice. I assume Johan lives in "de randstad"
@@ditjedatje9741 True !
@@ditjedatje9741 I think it's a bit of both. Dutch people are often not that afraid to say what they think in order to make communication more efficient...
But not speaking a language that well can 'help' too. Like, if I don't speak English that well and I want to tell someone they need to improve something, I'd probably say "It's not good", because I don't have the vocabulary to sugarcoat it.
@@Roozyj Sorry is the same in Dutch and English.. "sorry, it's not good, sorry"
One of the biggest shocks i have experienced is the opening of gifts right there and then, yep the moment you received it. Where i came from, we have to wait till everybody is gone.
Opening gifts impromtu, in our culture, it feels like you are that materialistics and value material things that much...
Luckily, i don't think like that anymore being in Holland now for 3 decades.
Thanks for sharing Eigram. Oh yeah that is very interesting, gift opening. I can see that too.
not to open yr present is rude! the person who give the present has made a lot of effort to buy the right thing and want to see that you appreciate the gift. And yes sometimes its the wrong one, but no problem when the receiver ask if he can returns it because its not the right one nobody minds
Making an appointment for seeing each other is more agenda orientated when dutch people become older. In my study years, spontanious visiting each other was also normal!
I like many things about the Netherlands, but the areas that are more culturally packed for me tend to be super crowded. I would consider moving there from Portugal, but when I visited I wasn't prepared to how packed the country feels.
Thanks Jean. Yeah it's a very dense country. Very crowded in the cities. But if you live in a small town, it's a lot better.
So much rain…only in the coastal areas.
Even after 36 years here in The USA from The Netherlands, My yes is still yes and my no is no. I am still quite direct because even though I am better at it, I don't "read" between the lines nor do I talk between the lines but my co-workers and friends are accustomed to it now and, quite often, appreciate my directness. It's all how you present it. You can be direct in a kind manner or in a "rude" manner.
Thanks for sharing, I’m curious…how has American culture changed you by being in the US after 36 years?
@@hidavidwen Certain habits have changed me over time. Little things like "Don't iron the bedsheets", "Eggs go in the refrigerator", "It goes in the dishwasher" and "Ice cubes in my soda's". Then there is the space I now am used to whereas going from Rotterdam to Den Helder for me now is "just down the road" hence: Distance is no longer an issue. Going from Las Vegas to Hollywood, CA to visit friends is the same to me as going from Rotterdam to Paris for the weekend. When people ask me "How ye doing?", I no longer go into details how I'm doing but answer: "I'm fine, how are you?", little things like that. Giving ridiculous large tips has become a habit (I blame that on my late wife).
But, even after 36 years I still don't quite know how to answer certain questions because, whereas the mother tongue English is a specific language, American-English can still be difficult for me to answer because of the many ways I can answer it like your question for example. My late wife was always my go-to for this but alas, I'm on my own now hahahaha.
As a returning Dutchman, who fondly remembered that it once was such a clean place that one could "eat one's food off the street", it was a shock to find that these days, in parts of the bigger cities, there's no longer a need to bring your own food.
You'll also find that the Netherlands has changed so much during the years. Tolerance, respect and politeness are things that are long forgotten.
Thanks for sharing…where are your returning from? Interesting to hear..I find the big cities to be quite clean (as compared to US cities) but everything is relative
Thanks William. Were people more respectful and polite before??
@@hidavidwen
Mostly Anglophone central Africa.
Can’t tell you who deposited the food on the streets where I saw it; that might lead to a tsunami of un-PC comments aimed at those depositing it or at me for noticing it.
That’s the world we live in now.
@@hidavidwen I'm not sure if people were more respectful and polite before, or if we started speaking out more when things happened that they didn't like. In general I do notice more and more segregation happening, which often results in a decreased understanding of someone else their view. Politically, both left and right wings are getting more extreme. Just looking at the parliament, currently there is 20 parties, with 5 parties just having a single seat. A decade ago we had only 10 parties in parliament with none having a single seat. To me this is a big sign of the segregation taking place, unfortunately this is a worldwide phenomenon (at least in the western world).
I am Dutch, married an african woman 30 years ago, and very happy. when we have issues its, mostly beacause i have said something to direct and its is mis interpret / understood or i do not understand what has been said / ment in a non direct sentence. We have learned over time and adapted but it has never gone, now we do not argue any more, its more "sorry i ment to say this and that" ( for me in the long way for here in the short way) and its okay.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah relationships (especially intercultural ones) take time and work, great to hear!
I appreciate the fact that Dutch are direct people. Back home we are the opposite, we found directness a close relative of brutally vocal.. But then again, backbiting or talking behind your back is very rampant. It is a favorite hobby, to be precise.
So being in Holland for 3 decades now...have you become more direct yourself? Have you gotten used to the directness?
So how do they do it when you have clients?Do they just pick a day when you want to do it?Or do you make a appointment for a specific day?So how is this different from the dutch??I really dont yet get it as a dutchman..
Haha thanks for sharing Joop. I don’t know…I think if you run a business or for work, yea it helps to be planned. I think the comment about “agendas” is really about personal life and friends/family
I’m American living in Asia 30 years and I am considered direct. 😮I should move to Netherlands. I’ve been many times and I love the place.
Where in Asia are you? How has your experience been in Asia? That's on my list one day...to live in Asia too =)
Being in Europe is nice-a different experience for sure
Hello David, I am living in Bangkok for the last 17 years: previously, Singapore 8 years, China 2, Vietnam 2 years.
Can you have a cultureshock when you are Dutch yourself? I mean, to me people from Groningen, Zeeland or Limburg are most of the time quite different. When you visit the US, there is a lot of difference between California, Texas or Maine. Do they have actually anything in common? So I don't think you can hardly ask me a question about people in the US because they are so different. Also, their background is most of the time very different. Rich/poor, black/white. I think these differences are also present in The Netherlands.
Thanks Hans. I definitely think you can have culture shock in the same country. For example, i was shocked at all fast paced New Yorkers were when I first visited from California.
Ook in Limburg grote verschillen.
Noord en zuid totaal andere sfeer.
Zuiden is veel gemoedelijker.
Overigens ook de dorpen rond Roermond .
The agenda, the cheese sandwich, the directness is the same everywhere in Nederland. I lived every where
Not quite a shock for me, but I experienced a lot of style, especially in mens clothing. Even more so in Belgium.
Interesting. In Europe, the Dutch are actually known for their lack of style in clothing. The best dressed are the Italians, and the Parissiennes of course.
@@Pfooh I can't tell anything about Paris, but I have direct comparison between Italians and Dutch.
If you sit an pedestrian zone and watch the people coming by, in Italy you will find most of the (especially young) men wearing Jogging Pants a T-Shirt and Sneakers.
In the Netherlands you will see lots of suits/suit trousers, shirts, leather shoes.
I know some guys there who not only match belts and shoes, also shoelaces, glasses/frames, buttons on shirts, wristwatches and fountain pens.
I recognize this because I'm such a guy too, but I think I'm the only one in Austria (where I usually live).
@@GEKKO_Archery You must have a quite select sample of the Netherlands. What you say might be true for certain cities and some more expensive towns, but there's many places in the Netherlands where you see awfully dressed people.
Did you stay in Amsterdam ? Then your experience could make sense, because in Amsterdam there is a big gay community and also large communities of surinamese and moroccans. Among them, men tend to dress more conscious and flashy than your average blonde, blue eyed dutchman. I would think that Italians in general dress up more than Dutch .
(Maybe those leather shoes are a sign of 'old fashion' , cause the trend is more sneakers, even in more formal occasions 😉 ).
And we never critisize Danish, Kisses from Holland. We are as great as u...
I’d love to see an interview with someone who is moving away from the Netherlands, and why they are doing it.
High taxes, huge flows of immigrants who don't work and keep getting free money from us, the taxpayers. A government who never listens to it's people. High inflation, tax on a heritage (where the deceased already payed taxes for). Small houses for very high prices, too many people a square mile. Extremely politically biased news, very lenient punishment for some very serious crimes, the weather can be very bad, especially during autumn and winter, driving a car is very expensive here as well.
Those are about all reasons I can think of.
Those are probably the
@@venezzrok871 nonsense 🤦♂️ According several studies, punishment in the Netherlands is one the heaviest in western Europe. Journalists in the Netherlands are fare from biase, no interference of politics in the media. Far less biases then for example Fox News.
@@venezzrok871 'flows of immigrants who don't work and keep getting free money from us'- awwwww I'm sorry you're so scared of the world and believe whatever Wilders or Baudet are telling you.
It's not about believing it's about knowing this for a fact. For example, what about the immigrants getting priority on housing and we as tax paying and law abiding citizens getting treated as 2nd rank citizens in our own country?
What about the immigrants who quit there job the moment the get a house, because they are allowed financial support when they do?
These are facts, not something I believe to be right.
@@Wolfe1966 You do know that in The netherlands, sexual delicts are most often punished with forced labour (maximum of 240h) and the most common punishment for the heavy cases like extremely violent rapes etc, are prison sentences of 3 years?
You call that a proper or heavy punishment for the crime(s) commited?
I'm sorry but it feels way to light for what is happened. Especially since these offenders are known to repeat such crimes, creating a high risk for more victims.
Think the agenda thing is Dutch people saying “FO I don’t like you” , but indirectly.
When I talk with internationals here in The Netherlands I often times give them a disclaimer when I ask or state something that could be perceived as too direct or rude.
"I really do not mean this in a bad way, but I really don't understand ___ about ____"
They get used to it, lol.
Haha how nice of you Sam to warn people ahead of time so they know =)
I never had an agenda for meeting people! I guess that is only something in big cities…..
Haha thanks for sharing Hilde. Some of my Dutch classmates had agendas…some were from big cities and some small towns. But of course this is also a generalization and doesn’t apply to everyone
I live in Belgium (Dutch speaking side) and I also want to add : Dutch and Flemish people are cultural very different.
Yes they are! What are the differences in your opinion?
I agree ,I lived in Tilburg near the border and I can say that people from Belgium have better manners and are much more Friendly.
The sounds in the surrounding are somethimes a bit to loud and the questions/conversation on your site are a bit to judging.
Also, I would have loved to hear different topics then just direct communication and/or planning. Because it was basically only that.
Did like you asked where the people where from and how long they were here. That's kinda a nice touch that last one as nobody asks that
Would have been a perfect video project for school. Also the surroundings are very lovely. Great video overal!
Thanks for the tips and feedback, I appreciate it! Still learning a lot myself. And appreciate your support!
This is a very direct feedback, kom je uit Nederland?
Alkmaar is great! It's much nicer then Haarlem for instance. The people are more open, like the Polish girl says. I have a little boat like on the background, and everybody waves on the water like motorcyclist do also. I like to go for a Vlaams frietje by boat at ''De Vlaminck'' in the centre of Alkmaar near the cheese-museum. It's nice to have you here David Wen, kind regards from a Dutch guy
Thanks Milco, yes I really enjoyed my visit to alkmaar, beautiful place!
To explain our "directness": the 'Dikke Van Dale' Dutch dictionary vs. Oxbridge and Latin languages. Nuff said.
Nou, het Franse woordenboek is ook niet al te dik!
I like to do spontaneous things and don't plan with people who don't have or make time. BTW I'm Dutch 😊
:) we can be friend 😁😁
Hey mate I’m an Aussie & we are pretty direct & won’t beat around the bush asking something so this seems a great fit for us & your Aussie guest is younger so he’s probably used to the current generation I suppose.
Carry on with good content 👍👍👍
You’re welcome and thanks! Oh would be interesting to see how you perceive “Dutch Directness” if and when you do visit :)
Yeah dutch people aren't direct at all they're scared but maybe cause I'm not fully dutch
As someone who grew up in New York City and worked there for awhile I can say that at least in business interaction, ordering in restaurants and shopping (when dealing with busy waiters and salespeople) everyone was pretty direct and wanted you to get to the point right away. I don’t know if it’s still that way but it used to always be a very fast paced city. Things were supposed to be done yesterday - very quickly - and people were impatient with anything taking a lot of time to do. I got to be that way, too. Do I had to make big adjustments in how I interacted with people when I lived elsewhere in US (even other big cities which weren’t quite as fast paced) or going overseas and slow myself down and engage in small talk before asking for something. It can still be frustrating to me if I’m in a rush. It’s very hard for me to deal with people in cultures - especially Latin American cultures (although I hear Portugal is similar) that have the “mañana” way of doing things: of getting to it sometime soon in the near future but with no sense of urgency even if it’s an urgent repair.
I wish that we could learn from Dutch people in Sweden and be more direct and on point in life.
It is moving backwards. The English dominant societies with advanced social graces have excelled at a time when the Dutch are still whittling their shoes from firewood.
People have the same emotions everywhere, everywhere there's a culture of politeness at some level, because there's a fundamental reason.
What do you think the trade-off is here? Less emotionality and attachment in some cases?
Thanks for sharing Max. Yeah interesting question. I think communication in any language is more about “how” you say something that can make the difference…whether you are direct or indirect. Very hard to build trust but very easy to break it.
In the Netherlands (or at least the Hollands) it's polite to say what you need (be direct).
In the USA it's polite to sugarcoat everything.
Someone from the US can feel the Dutch style of communicating being rude, while Dutch people think that the "over the top" amount of sugarcoating is rude.
For example, I regularly see my US friends saying things like "Hey, how are you? I was wondering if you were able to check this" where my Dutch friends say "Hey, have you been able to check this?". My US friends say "how are you" but don't wait for an answer, it's part of their greeting. Dutch people tend to struggle with knowing when something US people say is because it is the norm for them or because they actually mean it. With Dutch people you always know this compliment they gave me is not because they want to be polite, but because it's something they actually mean.
If half of the compliments you get are just done to be "polite" the value of a compliment significantly decreases.
helle, would be nice to see these ind of channels also adress differences between Holland and other places in the Netherlands These channels tend to be very Holland focused wich is like comparing jersey or new york to Michican. For instance the directness is hugely different between a Limburger (excessively indirect and a Friasan (even more direct then someone from Amsterdam) and the east of the country direct eye contact is much less commmon (it is considered agrassive) while in the west not making eye contact is rude. May I challenge you and other expat channels to take a loo beyond Holland?
Thanks for sharing the idea. I wrote it down.
About the Australian guy. I totally agree with that everlasting planning of totally sucks. It takes out the fun of everything, but that’s our culture. About that directness I politely have to disagree. More often than not we also talk around the problem. We even have an expression for that ‘Om de hete brij heendraaien’.
48 years in the Netherlands and I have never experienced a culture shock. I always assumed another country would do things differently and so many are actually a better way.
Thanks for sharing Richard. Wow 48 years…do you experience reverse culture shock to where you originally came from?
@@hidavidwen Certainlly, the tipping culture, prices that don't include the tax and the radical shift to the right.
Quite right. I live here now for more than 50 years and wouldn't go back to the land of my birth for anything. I live in Amsterdam and when you come from a little village somewhere in Austria that is an eye-opener. But I love it here. Dutch people, and as I am also dutch now, are direct, no betaling about the bush. I have great difficulty with people who don't say what they mean and have a very roundabout way to explain anything.
Beating around the bush never stopped a flood. Things need to get done. There's your explanation.
I am born in Fryslan, a province in the north of the netherlands. The first 5 years of my life I spoke only frysian. When I went to elementary school, I had to learn Dutch, like all the other children. We learned Dutch by the schoolbooks, propperly. Later I was shocked how bad other dutch people spoke bad Dutch. Being bylinguel was an advantage.
Oh wow thanks for sharing. Is there a lot of differences between the two cultures?
Some Dutch directness: Your English is quite poor, though. Which kind of undercuts your point about the advantages of being bilingual.
English is their THIRD language after Frysian and Dutch.@@chocolatMouse
@molnya2 they were taught Dutch from the age of five: technically a second language, but still a native speaker. And seeing as most Dutch are taught English in middle school, I dont see why this makes a difference.
Very true what the Australian guy says.
Great video! Let me know when you're visiting Zeeland, I'd be happy to be your personal tour guide! 😊
Thanks Harrie! Appreciate it and happy 2023
As an Aussie I like the Dutch directness. Why make a long winded or circular statement when you can get to the point.
We have a saying why beat around the bush.
I’ve come to appreciate it!
Im from Belgium with a Duth background and it is remarkeble how differend the two are. They are neybouring countries with very simular language so people confuce the two. Whe also have the dutch honesty and german efficiëntie but people are not friendly. If you addres someone on the street they will not like it, they will help you with what you are asking, but they wont like it.
I was surprised by the power of the woman there.
? I guess I am surprised , that you are surprised by the power of the woman ...
Thanks Wawa. Yeah it is an egalitarian society here.
She is relaxed and confident. I like it when people are relaxed and confident.
I'm Dutch now living abroad. Living in the East of the Netherlands I only planned my professional life. If I wanted to see family or friends, I just went there. Sometimes it was inconvenient and then we were told for example; "Sorry, we have a reservation in a restaurant, so you have to come back another time". We only planned appointments, that had a longer travelling time, say more than half an hour.
So for me those people with all those busy agendas, they are just bragging about their popularity and importance.
If you were aware of that trait, why did you go there unannounced?
Thanks for sharing Bert
@@carrstone01 In the East of the Netherlands that trait did not exist in the Netherlands say till 2001. I don't think, it exists even now.
How is the directness in the Netherlands different from the directness of New Yorkers, (who are very direct)?
Haha great question Rebecca. In my personal opinion (after having traveled to NYC quite a few times), I find New Yorkers to be "harsher" in their tone of voice and directness. Sometimes aggressive. Again, not everyone but if you want me to make a comparison. Dutch directness also differs depending on the region in the Netherlands. Amsterdam people tend to me more direct, and Amsterdammers may be more comparable to New Yorkers in that sense (city). But directness is really about honesty. You can be honest, soft, and kind at the same time.
07:31 "what gets lost between the lines". I find this strange. Nothing got lost. Foreigners seem to add and infer all sorts of things. For instance: "The customer didn't ask for A, they want B. They need it tomorrow." That's all that means. If being efficient means you're going to get all sort of things in your head because you didn't get a paragraph apologizing for whatever happened, that's on you.
Thanks for sharing your perspective
That is NOT AMSTERDAM but 100% sure Verdronkenoord in my home city of ALKMAAR !
Dutch people are to honest to be polite.
Anglo-Saxon are to polite to be honest.
Thanks for sharing
Ohhh sorry, nice video by the way, thank you!
You’re welcome and thank you!
A nice shock we often call a surprise or a pleasant surprise. There is no such thing a "nice shock".
Dutch directness, all relative. I live in Thailand nowadays, where people are kind and gentle.... right? They would however tell a woman in her face that she is fat or has small boobs. Now that is hurtfull and rude. Dutch ain't too bad.
Thanks for sharing. In many Asian cultures, it is all about keeping harmony (which Al may mean withholding potentially hurtful comments that could destroy that harmony). Like you said, all is relative and all is human :)
First: you can divide the Netherlands in south and north. 2000 years ago the southern part - below the river Rijn - was part of the Roman empire. The people there are mainly Catholic, and they share their history with the Meditaranian countries. The North experienced the Iceage. We share our history with the Scandinavians and are mainly protestant. Even today the people in the south have a different DNA compared to the people in the north !
I live in Germany as a half German and half Dutch. Generally I would say the Dutch are direct but I consider it often as rude. I experience to say Jij or jou / jouw as unneeded. But in English 'You' in all of its forms solved that feeling.
Thanks Sander. Very interesting perspective. What do you think makes it rude vs. direct?
@@hidavidwen The intonation. But I was brought up traditional German style, and the older of two persons is the one who can propose to use the common jou and jij. It is also rude when a clearly younger person would address me with those popular ways.
@@Eitner100 Well, I have the same standards, as a fifty year old Dutchman. Respect for your elders is essential, but sadly lacking amoung many young people nowadays...
As a Dutchy, I would like to point out the regional differences. And differences betwee city-people and "achterland". Most of the surface of the Netherlands is "achterland". But most people live in the cities, especialy in the very crowded Randstad. A lot of the mentallity that is mentioned is jmostly about the Randstad. And when someone from there tries to live in another place IN the Netherlands, they can be seen as rude, direct, etc. Or more often as arrogant, loud, posh, etc. In the north/east it is especially considered rude and boasting (dealy sin) when you talk about anything you have or are. So one is better to dim down if you want to adjust there. In the Randstad or south, it is not like that. In the east people can make fun about someone or something while seeming to talk serious and both having a straight face. It is probably inerrited because of not getting the "betters" angry, so they could not openly say anything bad, for they could oust you if you did.
So now people can talk about the great plan someone from Den Haag or the "Proffesors (people with higher education)" or "hoge heren (high lords/anyone with influence)" have figured out about something at the local level (that is going to not work and anybody with any common sense would see the problems comming from a mile away) and there will be a pause and a knod. And everybody will know exactly how stupid it is. While never mentioning the word stupid. Bosses and managers best get that point, for their plans will fall flat when they think this is one of the ones that is going to fail spectacurly and nobody will warn them when the first little spoken doubts are met with "we know better, you simple person". People will stop protesting immediatly and wait until it fails, and not lift a finger to stop the failure. You knew better, did you not? It looks passive agressive, but it is more waiting you out, while you are the but of the joke. You do not respect them, so they will not bother. A western person will probably tell you not to be that stupid. An eastern dutchy will mostly wait untill you realise you were stupid. The more western dutchy manners you have, the worse they will do the eastern dutchy thing.
All these things are more done by the older generations. But it is still there. The common thing is that you can not expect awe if you are a boss, high influence person, rich or educated. . Neither of these people do the "awe" thing. Even if they feel a bit of awe, they mostly will hide the awe and try to act "normal", equal. If you have higher education they expect you to be sensable and have smart ideas and treat others as at least as valuable as your peers. Then you get respect, lots of it. But they will not show much of it, but they will not do the silent "wait till it falls apart" thing. They might give the high praise that you seem to be very sensible. You can not get any higher praise than that.
Thanks for sharing these insights. Appreciate it. Gives me some ideas too. To talk to people from different regions. Generations too. Thank you!
big cities and huge country's are not the reason bikes are not useful that is the biggest misconception
I'm Dutch and the only agenda/calendar I keep is the one for work.
Thanks for sharing! I’ve also met quite a few people in NL with agendas but each person is also very different!
I was very surprised to find that Dutch society has such extreme economic inequality problem. They like to think of themselves as progressive, but their greatest love is, in fact, capitalism.
Thanks for sharing Ivan. I am curious to hear more about what you mean regarding this inequality (it exists everywhere in this world)
@@hidavidwen I heard that Netherlands have a very high wealth inequality, based on some Credit Suisse report, but now I checked it out and it seems that this report was wrong.
@@ivannisevic6685 I think i know which video you got this from (economics explained?). While there probably is some truth to it, it is mostly on a techicality i am certainly not smart enough to explain.
In practice i'd say this is one of the most "equal" places on earth. I live in a small municipality known to be one of the "poorest" in the country. And yet we have exactly one homeless guy running around, and he is homeless mostly by choice (he has some mental problems, friendly guy over all though). The entire town knows him by name and he's almost like a minor celebrity over here as weird as that sounds.
Not saying that the poorest over here have an easy life, but i'd rather be poor over here where it means getting food from the "voedselbank" (an orginasation that hands out regular food packs to those in need) and living in a small apartment with govenment aid where the kids have to share a bedroom. As opposed to the actual crippling poverty that has you starving and on the streets as in very many other places on earth.
@@ivannisevic6685 Good thing you check your sources and correct it if you did draw a conclusion on a dubious source.
@@protectorh9167 I don't understand Dutch, mate.
Netherlands are on my bucket list
All commentators are highly articulate and intelligent. Now, is there a platform for more average people ? This is not a criticism of this short video. But , for all countries, there has to be a balance from all people. Thanks for your video.
Thanks for sharing. There’s room for everyone
Dutch people just don't like fluff talking.. meaningless dribble.
When any of my family has come from Holland out to Australia to visit they have made a point of asking why when they walk into a shop does the person behind the counter say "hi, how are you?" or "how's your day going??" with no interest whatsoever in the answer.
'They ask me and when i tell them they're already focused on something else... why ask me if they don't care about my response?"
They can't wrap their head around why someone would ask and then not be bothered listening to the answer.. they think that is really disingenuous.
Also, if you ask a Dutch person how does my dress look or do I look fat in this... expect an honest answer.. they will tell you without hesitation if it doesn't look good... not to be mean but because they're your friend and they won't beat around the bush with you.
Australian culture involves a lot @ss kissing and meaningless small talk...
Dutch culture involves directness and meaningful conversations.. which can be mistaken as blunt or rude but they wont be apologetic about it... if you said "I cant believe you said I looked fat in that dress" they will look at you funny and say "you asked".
Thanks for sharing. Yeah we all have different cultures and that’s the beautiful thing about this world
Gezellig, cause only we know it
Gezellig! 🥳