I found you through your dota 2 streams, and I'll be staying through whatever you decide to play instead because you're just a delight to watch no matter what you're playing. I loved watching you play dota because unlike watching pros playing, I was watching someone who was also figuring out some stuff here and there, someone who tried new heroes and new things that they weren't good at and it was okay! But I know a good part of the community doesn't think the same, a lot of people seem to be more focused on telling you that you're bad instead of enjoying the pure chaos of someone trying to learn a new role or a new hero at high mmr. But again! You're a lovely person and your streams are great, if you're no longer having fun with the game, then don't force yourself! Keep the good memories you made, and we'll move on with you into the next thing! Thank you for everything Grubby, keep up the good work!
I mean what do u expect from them? the game hasnt seen innvoation in last 20 year. they literally stole whole dota 2 idea from warcraft 3 custom map community. they don't even have balls to make more then 1 gamemode. in fact they don't even understand the essence of MOBA genre. they still think that MOBA genre is DOTA aka Defend of the Ancinents when in fact it was 100 00 00 00 0 of community made maps. just like league of legends. MOBA studios that still only catter to conquest/DOT playeraers are outdated. that is why ARENA is the biggest open niche on the market. watch the King's Avatar animation on 9 anime or youtube. u cant even surrender ingame like so u are forced to play this snowbally clown fiesta that DOTA map that was never meant for esports anyway. i made quite few videos about this topic
@@GamingDualities I don't know what you're on about cause most of the things you said are either incorrect or seem to come from someone who hasn't been having fun with the MOBA genre for a while but refuses to let it go out of attachment to the nostalgia it brings. It's fine to grow out of stuff man, it's ok to not enjoy certain genres and games anymore. When it reaches that point the best thing you can do is follow Grubby's example and move on to the next thing before you sour any good memories you made. ... And also, none of the things you said justify people being rude to Grubby for trying new heroes and roles. What I expect from any human being is decency and respect, and I honestly still can't fathom getting so worked up at a streamer trying to learn your favorite hero. Because honestly when Grubby was trying out Hoodwink for the first time I was beyond *elated* to watch him get better at playing her. If anything I think I'm a bit upset I won't get to watch him learn any of the other heroes I enjoy but I still applaud him for knowing when to step away from something.
what is grubby to dota 2 community is what I am to smite community. i loved smite for more then 12 years. never been toxxic to no1. but lets not pretend we don't have some major game and community issues. i made many videos talking about this or state of moba games in general. also watch the kings avatar animation on 9 anime. best gaming animation out there@@coldspicy
This is the whole beauty of DOTA. It's very fun 1v1 3v3 and 5v5. If you are well versed in Warcraft you can be very resourceful when it comes to DOTA. Some very creative strategies were being developed over the years. Dagon on Nerubian Assassinn, Ion Shell on invisible heroes like Bounty Hunter, some heroes that were support being played like carries. Anyone who has trained 1v1 knows many heroes have carry late game potential. Anyone who has played other custom maps knows the late game effects of critical, bash, evasion and how to stack them. Many people see one pro game with certain role/item and if others do not play that meta, they just hate it. I 100% claim that playing 5v5 with the people that are not like that is one of the most fun gaming experiences one can have. And I have played all sorts of games and love a whole lot of different genres, but at the very very top, few games in certain cases exceed everything else.
It is somewhat paradoxical that many people play team-based video games yet are completely incapable of fostering effective teamwork. They become instantly frustrated when someone makes a mistake or plays in a way they disagree with-even if that approach is successful. This behavior effectively handicaps their own team. In my opinion, these environments are among the most toxic I've encountered. As a result, I have quit playing these games entirely.
I’ve only played Predecesor, for a few hours as an absolute noob, before being turned off by the toxicity in pubs. Most competitive games I pick up (FPS, Fighting, Sports, etc…) I’m definitely well above the average gamer. Your comment accentuates what “always-online/multiplayer/games as a service” has done to the entire gaming landscape over time
Games are supposed to be fun and entertaining. Do not hesitate to drop games that you're not enjoying. Trust me people are gonna feel much better emotionally and mentally if they let go of the Sunk Cost Fallacy, feeling like they have to continue on a game because they already started it.
There isn't a lot of options for single player games that are competitive. I would switch to something that didn't make me rely on 4 other random people
this game is for old players that played dota 1 in past.its not made for new players. grubby cant get views now .he got alot of views and subscribers and in his twitch and youtube only for his dota 2 content,now he left and says dota 2 is bad i am not gonna watch him playing other games than dota 2,he has to say goodby to his views on youtuve and twitch
@@amiralia8237 you know hes been playing pro at the warcraft 3 scene right? for 11 years. he didnt get all his community from dota 2...... and most liely lost views from playing dota 2 because the game is not for eveyone. you assume a lot of things from someone you havent watched at all. and this video is 5 months old, and hes been getting views since then so thats no issue and wont be giving up his channels. like he said in the video, his content is not beholden to dota 2. at all please go outside and touch some grass
I felt that a lot of solo queueing in DOTA was just managing everyone's egos to make sure that no one cooked off unnecessarily and started feeding couriers or throwing. You're spot on your assessment with regard to why people are like that, they have played for so long and it has become their lives. They no longer even enjoy the game, but they feel they have no where else to go, so they stay on the game and lash out whenever there is any discomfort. I found that playing in low priority was much more fun because people were just playing for fun rather than for points and ego
Word for word but make it league of legends. I honestly didn't mind someone going unexpectedly afk or having a bad game, or even going on losing streaks. What exhausted me was having to handhold people that haven't developed healthy mechanisms to dealing with emotions or problems. My random jungler accidently giving your lane a kill should not warrant you running it down and feeding every lane, sprinkling slurs left and right.
This is so true. It's also why it's been so strange to see Valve kill the mini-game and arena scene. Those mini games are a GREAT way to play Dota but not really play Dota. Gives you the player-break you need while still enjoying the game client and heroes.
@@Gyokan7I am sorry, I am not the babysitter of morons and I don't have to endure maladapted personalities. I mute the idiot and don't give a flying crap about their idiotic behavior (feeding, whatever). Just assume it is a Mega creep programmed to raise the difficulty of your game, period.
Nothing heartbreaking about it you just outed yourself. He explained everything. He's not in pain, he didn't express that he needed encouragement. How you heard that is beyond me and anyone who listened to what the man said. You wrote something nice though so there is that at least.
I just played Axe, I have 515 games with Axe and 58% winrate. I'm Divine 5. I had to lane against MK + Dazzle which are both Lane Counters to Axe. At the start of the game I said I cant lane there and I have to dodge lane and that I would jungle. All agreed but when things got hard they started flaming me for not being able to help. We won the game very easy in the end, i had to mute everybody after 10 minutes and whole team reported me for griefing and I got low prio instantly after the game. My stats were 8/8/28 second most dmg in team, and by far most damage tanked. I also bought crimson and pipe to help my team mates survive. I could also go AFK when they all told me they reported me etc but i didnt because when I win its good for me and i dont have to see those ppl again. Last year I did recallibration and won 8/10 games, got +870 MMR and got 2 times reported for griefing during the games, had 2x low priority and had 6k behaviour score. So algorythm gives me +870MMR but you toxic ppl throwing reports because I dont play like you want me to play send me to hell. Dota always had toxic ppl but somehow it got worse and I think it's because of this infinite report bullshit. When you had 6 reports and u had to carefully choose if it's actually worth to report someone, everything was better. Now the system is actually making to threaten other players because you can report them anytime for anything.
Thats blizzard for you. It's one of the reasons i stopped playing overwatch. Any sort of criticism like asking a teammate to "b", or "what are you doing?" and you can be reported. Blizz doesnt investigate and you are eventually silenced and banned for "abusive language." I get what grubby is saying but it works both ways. The most toxic people to me are the ones that abuse and report everyone for every little thing.
I recently tried to teach my friend DotA 2 who was coming from League of Legends. I came out of a 6 year hibernation to play some games with him and absolutely forgot how much patience you need when queuing up without a full team (the last two years I played was only with my college team we were competing in JDL with). It took so much effort to defuse people flaming each other, and sometimes never worked. I ended up finishing our game session emotionally exhausted, and this is exactly why I stopped playing. Many times I was playing diplomacy simulator more than DotA
Yep. Pretty much. Something similar had actually happened a few years back in cs for me too. Which is absolutely ridiculous. If you play too well, people think you are cheating and you get kicked, if you play too bad, you get kicked. If it's a premade you get kicked ( they also give you different task like scream in your mic like a chicken or you get kicked), if buy when everyone saves you get kicked... etc etc... and the best of all, if you get kicked too often like 4 times I think. You get banned... What a great game concept. Things like that absolutely made me not want to play online games for many years now, because with the community like that it felt like literal torture. Especially when they are mocking you for trying...
That is what competitive gaming is and sports, what do you think the difference is between the top players in anything...its not just skill or hard work its also mental strength...same in life,
As a person who quit LoL recently (and other MOBAs long ago), I feel absolutely the same. And also as a person who played all those 3 MOBAs, I totally agree that voice chat experience is really cool, but could get toxic really quickly! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
@@beridledodopidop4822 no. I meant to just point out the culture difference between the older rts community and the toxic highly competitive moba communities, while at the same time referencing a Starwars scene describing the old lightsaber as a superior weapon from an older era.
I just decided today to uninstall Dota after playing for 11 years. So much of what you said resonated with me. I often recognise that after playing a few games, I am in such a bad mood after. Gaming is supposed to be a fun break from a long tiresome day at work for me. So many of my games have become too try hard. I recently tried Muerta support because I saw it on the pro scene. I was so excited to try it. Even before the game started I got called names and reported. During the game I was yelled at, blamed for everything going wrong, and I just realised...im not having fun with this and i dont want to play with these people. Im very open to suggestions from my team to get better, but its rarely they even do that, they just say uninstall and go kys. I even got toxic myself to "get back at other toxic people". I wanna go back to games where i have fun and be involved in positive environments. Dota is not that for me anymore. Great video grubby
CSS was a perfect game for fun. With all the minigames or zombie mods, devs and people just forgot what games are really meant for, all just yearning for progression and competion. fun no longer exists this day and age in gaming. fucking kids ruined it
Dota was my main game for many years, I played it's earliest versions and was instantly hooked. Played customs, the clan tda era and onto the garena scene, then i joined league beta, heroes of newerth then moved on to dota 2 when it started. I saw dotas transformation from a casual custom map to a competitive game with massive tournaments. The level of competition was insane, but at the casual level the increase of competitiveness added a different kind of fun for a few years. But then the community seemed to turn on itself. Just like you said, many games were no longer an enjoyable experience. People didnt want to win, they needed to win. Constant name calling, blaming everyone instead of focusing on what they could do better. This obviously wasnt all players, but it was enough players that I was no longer having fun. I did the pre mute for a while but it just wasnt the same. I decided to take a break and uninstall thinking i would get the desire to play again. It was about 5 years until I decided to play dota again. Obviously I was no longer at the same skill level(i was good, but nowhere near pro level) . I played one game and was harassed by my team starting from my item choice in the load screen. They reported me told me, to never come back, and called me names for the entire 35 minute game. I thought to myself, i didnt have any fun or enjoyment. Why would i spend my free time doing this. That was probably 2018 i think? Ive never played dota since. I used to be one of the biggest fans, but that part of the community has completely ruined the game for me.
You know what you're absolutely right, I had the exact same journey as you except that every now and then I do play with my friends in a party of 5. We always flame each other in a joking way and have a good laugh but I got out of the toxicity that is online moba. The free time you gain from quitting dota is honestly a blessing, make good use of it
@@shacuras8201Yes I've experienced this first hand, surrender option also have it's own problems or it raises more problems for example many people rage quit at some point in that 25-30min playing!
I remember when I found your channel through dota 2. Watching your climb from Herald to Immortal inspired me to try to do the same. Now that I have gotten to Legend I just want to say thank you for inspiring me to become a better player and also getting me back into rts games like wc3 and sc2. Keep up the good work and I wish you all the best.
Mad respect for you and for that decision, dude. I had very similar experience with dota2 and quit for exact same reason (although it was 10 years ago). And don't worry about moving on, I really appreciate your personality and openness, and will watch your content for as long as you will stay true to your values.
If you want to explore other competitive 1v1 games instead of more team games, then I would highly recommend fighting games if you have any interest in it. You have the right mindset about processing losses and learning from them after all the years that you've competed in 1v1 RTS. That kind of skill and mindset would carry over really well to learning fighting games as well (and also zero toxic teammates to ruin the experience for you ofc, it's just you and your single opponent).
I had a reverse situation, played Dota for around 10 years, competed and went to tournaments with different teams and it was a blast. However, after a while I had a break and had no team, so I started playing solo for some time. The difference in the experience you get in terms of fun and improvements is so huge that at some point it felt like a waste of time playing solo due to reasons you mentioned. So, I transitioned to Starcraft 2 and fighting games, as those don't have teammates and it felt amazing competing and improving in those. That said, if you ever feel like returning to dota, I highly recommend playing with a full team for max enjoyment instead of random pubs.
This. I never understood DOTA or MOBA games in general putting more weight in grinding the game solo queue when you don't need to be Einstein to figure out that MOBAs are TEAM games and that's where the real game of DOTA is. Your interaction and synergies with your team, knowing your opponent team and finding ways to counter it, and actually being CARING and KIND for your teammates to keep team morale and prowess high. I wish the general community normalize ranked team play instead of the lunacy of solo queue. And I have always thought if you're gonna solo queue at that point why not just play fighting games or 1v1 RTS.
@@kayosensei All of this is true. But limiting yourself (really hard) by playing with random teammates is actually helping you develop your personal skills. As opposed to playing with a party where they can cover for your shortcomings and preventing you learn from your mistakes. I'm not saying one is better, just that it exists and having high rating (previously they were divided) in Solo Queue was a representation of your personal skills where Team Rating could be highly inaccurate.
@@kayosensei There is an option to do just this, and it's not abnormal to play in a team with friends. I used to do this as well but I found out that it can be even a more stressful enviroment than solo queue and has a potential to even ruin friendships... there is an option to mute toxic people and people should really utilize it, rather than keep nagging back and forth which never brings any fruit in the end, but only more toxicity and misery. There's also an option in the options-menu to pre-mute everyone, so that you only see their pings and chat wheel, which is quite adequate to communicate in Dota (one guy even managed to get to Immortal rank like this). They can still see your chats and hear you btw.
This guy actually gets it. Almost like the planet is dying, or people have become more entitled/violent since 2020. Again, I blame the environments we have created. I have noticed that avoiding F2P games, helps cut down on the toxicity a bit though.
@@istjimmyi4202 The Social Media generation doesn't seem to realize they're talking to a real person on the other end of the line. That's why they can be creepy and toxic as much as they want. They feel like they're just talking to an avatar.
Yeah, if ur not a pro and u dont play to have fun then why play at all. Familiarity is a good point. Like someone who goes to college and picks a major they think they would be good at based on familiarity instead of figuring out what they actually enjoy.
I agree with your sentiment. However people find different things fun. For some they may seek more chill and relaxed and experimenting gameplay. For others they feed that competitive drive. These players are more likely to be volatile in their mood, so when they experience something that is unacceptable to them in the spirit of being competitive or they feel like they get robbed of something they perceive is theirs by rights, they start losing sight of the end goal: winning competitive games. Some get entrapped, feeling like they've sunk too much time into the game to let go - and indeed the familiarity hypothesis is likely also true for many - so they keep going and they take their previous negative experiences with them. The truly unfortunate thing is that players who are more accepting and chill, like Grubby, who can rub off on others to reflect on their behavior and correct themselves, these players usually find the competitive environment to be dissatisfactory and thus they leave. So you're mostly just stuck with players who are entrapped in the game and unable to break free from their bad patterns. I think this is why the MOBA environments, hell even Call of Duty, so maybe just all amateur competitive environments gets this spiral that ends in what is largely perceived as toxic communities. Personally I gravitate towards watching streamers who have a positive outlook on the game and a more laid back attitude, instead of high-strung, high-energy people full of conflict and drama who I find taxing. And that's why I love watching Grubby.
@@m.r.r.2636 your comment is similar to the nature of why i now play ff14 and not WoW anymore... was over a decade of WoW for me... but the community just became unbearable, so now ive been comfy and having a great time in ff14 the last few years
Being stuck in a losing match for a really long time is poison for player behavior. And seeing your teammate make a mistake gives you flashbacks to the times you were stuck in your base for 40 minutes because you fell behind early on. Games dragging on for that miniscule chance for a comeback is hype for e-sports, but matches that resolve faster are much better for the vast majority of games.
That's the main issue with playing dota for me is, I could play dota for 3 games... or I could invest nearly 2 hours into a hobby. Every few dota games I would have the chance to learn a song on piano or complete a piece of art, pour significant time into learning a subject or history. I can handle having bad games, that's a part of team games, you have the highs of a fun team and making friends and the lows of toxicity. But being stuck for 30 minutes at the least when you know that it's over is so painful.
@@hillboy1611 That was a feature I missed about Heroes of Newerth that dota didnt have. I understood the concept of not having a concede vote but playing games with people I hated for an extra 20-30 minutes tilted me beyond anything else.
@@hillboy1611This sounds good in theory. But, in practice the toxicity it brings is beyond anything you can imagine. Hon wasn't really toxic and this feature when introduced just made it insufferable. It almost never works as intended (people agree game is over , vote and gg). It mostly goes like this: some people want to forfeit the match after the first couple of minutes (in HoN you cound't even initiate the vote before 10 or 15 mins, and they would go "guys afk now, we vote in 3 mins this is over") if peopel disagree...toxicity on steroids begins, griefing, feeding on purpose and flame wars until everybody submits. It doesn't matter if 2 people disagree or 3... even one griefer ruins the game and can make everybody submit just by saying it he is going to grief...
2:57 The main obstacle in moba games nowadays.... especially for any that passed its growth/golden age And for learning, I do feel that players from warcraft3/grubby's era have like 5x ability to learn from wins/losses, recent players have no idea how much they could still learn and are full of ego from maybe a gold rank elo? Back then everyone knows e-sport is an extremely tough and hardworking career, but nowadays people talk like it is a news to learn, bruh
@3:30 this is it! Absolutely on point. Players who became 'vengeful spirits', who can't process loss. Dota2 (but also some other games) can be an incredible toxic swamp, and it's good to leave.
I started playing dota recently and even in casual games people are flaming each other hard, legit 10 hours of gameplay and somehow I need to know all matchups, builds and interactions to not get flamed and called the most absurd words
As a long time league player, I'll never forget when I tried DOTA 2 for the first time and got flamed for dying vs AI by my teammates... who were also playing vs AI. I'm used to league toxicity but this was a really strange experience to me.
I had a similar experience many years ago. I had been a Halo player and was used to the comradery of those pvp environments. Sure, there was some trash talk, but it wasn't par for the course for people to tell you uninstall and kill yourself and so on. People were so toxic that I remember swearing off the genre. I didn't play a MOBA and enjoy it or understand the merit of the genre until 2020 or maybe some years after. I remember to this day ranting to someone about how it was incomprehensible to me that a community of such a complicated game would actively be so hostile to new players. It seemed completely insane to me. That's just MOBAs though, I don't see it ever changing. Ironically, the most fun people to be around and interact with will always be the memers and off-meta one tricks. People like Singed players. They're the only group in MOBAs that play the game a lot and still understand it's a game, not a job, and they generally don't have insane egos. Edit: I found the match. It was a Co-op bot match where I played Faceless Void and was flamed by my teammates until I Abandoned the game. I remember picking him because he looked cool and I had no idea who to play and was running out of time.
Just mute toxic and move on, and don't think about it too much (there is even an ioption for this in the options-menu!). You don't even absolutely NEED to communicate to get to Immortal (one guy proved this right in the past) so you could even pre-mute everyone! Pings and chat wheel are quite adequate to communicate with your team. In fact I think it might be a good idea to remove the communication (chat and voice) in Dota 2 from pubs, or at least from strict solo queue!
It's really important for people to see folks like Grubby who are emotionally evolved learning and enjoying the game, and being the opposite of toxic. I'm grateful for the time you've spent playing DOTA 2 for us, and I've watched every one of your DOTA 2 videos. I hope you'll come back soon! Thanks for being what you want to see - modeling good behavior is so critical ❤
I understand you truly. This happened on my journey a lot of times, I usually have to take some time to reset and this could consist in weeks or even months without playing. And whenever I return, I fall in love with Dota 2 again. But the thrill only last a limited amount of time. And I've dedicated my adulthood to Dota 2 (playing it since its release, currently 7.2k MMR and done a couple of casts including TI for the Brazilian community). Since I tried to make this my passion/work, sometimes I feel stuck to the game. But you know, that's our sin for loving good games a lot. Take your time, grubby!! we'll be waiting. This is called "saudade" in portuguese and you might miss dota at some point
The random people coming together thing is one of my favourite things, I always join random guilds on my alts in wow and try to help them do better in raids etc. One of the most enjoyable things when you all achieve more than you thought possible at first.
Hey that’s great healthy decision to make. I think the discovery level of you playing DoTA was great, but it’s kind of hard to ignore that chat and players in match are exhausting to deal with. Always happy to see what’s next 🤙
Grubs peeps are crazy. When i used to grin dota, i just did ur pre-mute strat as u suggest later in this video--and yes, as you point out, you'll miss the beneficial eccentricities of some peeps, but the reality is, at least imho, that's a VERY small % of people who you'll be missing--the overwhelming amount of people i found in game were toxic, or at a minimum unhelpful/distracting. When i premuted, my win % went up dramatically. thx for another banger vid, still miss watching u maul peeps with orc :)
I played dota WC3 and after Dota2 for many years than I stopped. I was quite good (around 5k mmr) back then. I restarted to play about when you started your Dota 2 career and after 2 games I uninstalled. People are so toxic. There is no place to new player or returning player in this community.
@@beridledodopidop4822 Or any FPS because I feel like even the griefers in CS and Valo actually tries to win. And if you really want to have fun, rocket league and Apex legends(without cheaters) are freaking awesome. But the most fun I've ever had in a multiplayer game was EU4. Sure it takes a few thousand hours until you're multiplayer ready but them 40 players lobbies are just incredible. The massive continental and world wars, coalitions, backstabbing and the memes are incredible. It felt like you were playing a competitive game like dota2/League and a for fun game like lethal company or among us at the same time.
Pretty similar to my experience as well. Now I'm old with a kid and real responsibilities .It's not worth it to waste my limited hours I have for gaming dealing with toxic children, despite the fact that I probably had more fun playing dota from 2004-2014 than any other game.
I find myself enjoying HotS so much more than other mobas simply because no one tells me I'm a horrible player for my mistakes. And if they do they're not as unhinged as some people in LoL
Actually the opposite for me, maybe now with a smaller community in hots there's less toxicity but when I was playing hots like 3 years ago I've had so many games where ppl are flaming the hell out of each other (maybe because it's way more team dependent than league)
thats the tricky part. HotS is a team effort and you can feel powerless. Meanwhile in Dota or League you do have power to do things by yourself, but any team effort against you can ruin you... and it does not matter if that team effort is in enemy team... or your own.
@@fartloudYT in HotS I know to just do my part. I main tanks and all I have to do is provide the team with information, protection, engage and soaking here and there. I don't have to carry it all on my own unless I'm in lower ranks. If I lose, it's because the MMR difference is too big between the teams (or I got an afk / disconnected player). But in lower ranks I can confidently carry the game on my own anyway, the team is a non-factor. I don't know anyone from diamond and above who climbed from silver with less than 70% winrate. I wonder where that notion of "it's harder to carry" even came from when I can play carry tanks or carry bruisers and win easily.
Competitive team games don't work for me. I started competing in Melee 2006, and I liked that it was all down to my personal skills. I just can't take team games seriously as a player.
There is an interview from 2019 just before TI9 where N0tail was asked to give a message to fans and DOTA players, his words resonate with me to this day whenever I feel bad and stressed. He said: "Just remember why you sat down to play for the first time and why you keep sitting down to play. I mean maybe you forget along the way, I have forgotten along the way but it's a game that I truly love and I'm sure that I'm not the only one, there's so many players. Just the good parts again, focus on the positivity, enjoy the games enjoy your teammates. Don't queue for the next game if you're in a bad mood and you know it's going to be a bad game. Q if you're looking for the fun, if you're looking for something good, if you're looking for that nice game or nice experience and that DOESN'T MEAN WINNING, some of the best games are still spent losing and yeah some people get caught up in that as well. Play for fun, have fun, enjoy it."
He's right, but also, of course, n0tail is also not playing right now. He could lpay right now and remember why he sat down to play for the first time. But there's an end for everyone and that's natural. Or maybe, an extended break
I didn't play solo queue for the reasons you mentioned in your video. Playing Dota 5 vs 5 party queue was really fun, especially after learning everyone's strength /habits of your regular teammates, you learned to adapt / work with them. I stopped playing Dota 2 over 5 years ago and watched your stream occassionally for WC3, but when you picked up Dota, it was very fun to watch you start in herald and make it all the way to immortal.
Could not agree more. I've basically stopped playing Dota for the last 3 years. Most summer breaks, I give it another attempt to try and recapture the joy of playing the game in the early days. Every time I'm quickly reminded of the same qualities in other people that you're speaking of - and I can't stand it. I'm very competitive and want to win, but I also really enjoy experimenting with off-meta heroes and trying to discover unconventional strategies. I'm always amazed with how closed-minded the players around me are. Often if we're losing, I'm blamed for "griefing" because I didn't pick one of the same 5 support heroes that I'd see every game. Even crazier, when I try playing unranked instead, the people there have the same attitude, like the match they're playing is one of the most important moments of their life and ALL of the 9 other players are actively working to sabotage it. It sucks the life out of a game that should be amazing. Thank you for speaking about this issue - I hope future competitive team games will take these lessons and foster better communities.
I also quit about 3 years ago. While the game itself is amazing, I don't really miss it. I play single player games now mostly, and tbh Dota 2 is one of the most dangerous drugs/addictions to ever exist. It's bad for you in the long term, don't waste your life on it.
If you are playing ranked games that means you wanna grind and this indicates that you should pick heroes that would give you the highest win prob, no wonder others are calling you a griefer. If you play only for fun just play unranked to "test" new heroes and strategies. I don't see any advantage in playing the new hero in a ranked match. It's basically intentionally lowering your skill by 500-1000 MMR and your team will pay the price.
I also wanna win, but I don't get mad if somebody is just learning the game and is not good because of it. What passes me off is people that do know how to play and doing dumb stuff that could throw the game like instead of hitting the throne, running into the fountain to bm then dying.
@@blahblahgdp you know you just said two oposite things, in one hand you dont mind people that just learing the game but on the other you hate people who does random shit...you mean new players? XD
Thank you so much man i have been watching you a couple years back i learrned alot from you on how to play orc and knowing you tried dota 2 which also my game made me more happier to see you play and experience a game where mutiple unit controlled is a feature. I'm sad to see you leave although you had your reason which is toxicity in community. Thank you for everything.
There is a lot of wisdom in your reflection in and out of Dota. It's no wonder how far you got in your MMR journey. It takes genuine care to post this message and is an important one to share. I stand with this message!
I love Dota. Best game I've ever played. But I always set a strict rule for myself: As soon as I lose a game, I log off. I find that it's very easy to ignore flame/toxicity on my first match of the day, or if I'm already on a win-streak. But if I just came out of a losing game, I'm a bit tilted, and my team starts flaming at 10 minutes, I'm much more likely to give up myself or even be toxic. This has been very helpful and has actually helped me gain MMR much faster since I only play when I'm in a strong mental state.
Just mute toxic and move on, and don't think about it too much (there is even an ioption for this in the options-menu!). You don't even absolutely NEED to communicate to get to Immortal (one guy proved this right in the past) so you could even pre-mute everyone! Pings and chat wheel are quite adequate to communicate with your team. In fact I think it might be a good idea to remove the communication (chat and voice) in Dota 2 from pubs, or at least from strict solo queue!
What I hate about it is people having "Dota is life" as their mantra to the point they make new accounts to pick on literal newbies in the game. It's way too toxic now. I do miss it and I still do play it at times but I always just get reminded of why I stopped in the first place. What you said is a very good illustration of the Dota 2 community at the moment.
I'm a Brazilian gamer and I have 9k hours on Dota 2, I got to Immortal rank 2000 mostly playing (believe it or not) off meta... I liked to pick Silencer mid, Windranger offlane, Visage offlane and weird stuff like that, but I had results, otherwise I wouldn't have reached this rank... But when I reached Immortal rank it was simply impossible to have a good game, people on my team reported me before the game started just because of my pick and they refused to play correctly because they thought I was trolling the game, and this was happening almost EVERY game... It came to a point that I couldn't find games anymore because I was reported by most Immortals, I needed to queue for like 30 min to find a game... I had to unnistal the game and move on... It really is an amazing game but the community is too imature and toxic, I rather have a good time playing something else... such a shame.
I had way less succes but got my fair share of hate for picking weird stuffs and having surprising inventories, but I like having fun trying things I never see, I still won over half of my 8k games and i am at peace with this humble achievement! :)
Cheers to you Grubby! I respect you a lot man. Ever since I started watching you, I've always found you as a great positive person who just loved the game and learned it really damn fast. I have seen your streams where people, both in game and in chat were really toxic to you but you still handled them pretty well. I can understand it can get mentally draining to deal with these kinds of people on a daily basis. I used to grind the game as well until I faced the same fate as you and ranked up and found many toxic players who just said the most gruesome shit to me even when sometimes it wasn't my fault. There was no fun playing anymore and it just ruined my mental health, and I can only imagine how much worse it could have been for you as you even had to deal with a toxic chat constantly backseating you. The positive side of Dota will always remember you as a Legend Grubby and I hope you know that we will always support you !
Ngl, I just heard that you're taking a sabbatical so I googled why...and I'm 100% with you. You are SUCH a sweetheart and it was a pleasure to watch you, but I genuinely had to stop watching earlier on (around when you were 2k early in your journey) because of your chat. I heard you made it sub only (maybe? or follower?) at some point but it felt so egregious for the numbers of people who felt entitled to tell you what to do/how to play and shit on you BECAUSE you're SO GOOD, even in low mmr it was obvious that you're a pro mechanically. Even without knowing your background when I started watching, you could tell. Respect for your decision, and wishing you all the best. And, I hope our communities continue to change for the better with voices like yours bringing light to this particular topic of the awful toxicity surrounding our wonderful game.
I quit dota 2 a year ago and started to explore and play singleplayer games. Best choice so far. I still watch the esports scene and some streamers tho.
I felt so identified with this video. I watched again today since yesterday I uninstalled Dota. The community it's sometimes exhausting. Love your videos
Thank you Grubby. I played WC3 since its inception. You were one of my biggest inspirations since WCG 04. I used to download your replays from the WCG site. But after a few years, Dota became huge and I got hooked on it. Years down the road when you started streaming, I wished you played Dota 2. I even commented on one of your old replays on TH-cam from WCG that if Grubby played Dota 2 he would be a grandmaster. I was so happy when that day finally came, But I am even more Happy (Not your Archnemesis in WC3) after listening to you today. I realized long ago that I was stuck in a loop in Dota 2. Today, after listening to you I finally accepted it. Thank you Grubby for giving me a beautifully articulated reminder to stop wasting time on a neverending game and play hundreds of amazing games that are coming out now. I think I am finally ready to sell all my items and remove Dota 2 from my account for good. Albert Einstein said it the best - "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." There are a lot of data players who feel the same way that you do, who are just stuck in a loop. I sincerely hope that this video goes viral in the Dota 2 Community and helps everyone Break free from the loop, the addiction, and the vicious trap of Dota 2.
I can perfectly relate. In Dota there's such a wonderful depth; details and big picture both engage and matter. It just tickles everything I want from a competitive teamgame. And then there's the playerbase. Some of my best matches were, and probably still will be, losses. I wish more people could also take it that way, to enjoy the process and not fixate on the results. But it is easy to lose it even if one has it in the beginning. I enjoyed watching your journey with dota, you were a breath of outdoors air in this scene. Will probably continue watching your streams! I just want you to know that there indeed are other people who would (or atleast try to) just love to enjoy the pure learning and trying and experimenting without the layer of toxicity. Maybe some day the scene is mature enough to do it. All the best to you!
I had the same journey. I switched from WC3 to Dota 2 a while back, played a few years, then stopped and reverted back to WC3. Like you I don't miss it and find it hard to watch tbh. I love your streams but tbh, when you were playing Dota, I would not watch. Now that you play more WC3, I'm super happy :D NB: The highest point in my WC3 life was when we played together 4v4 during COVID lock down. Much love!
i played the game hardcore for many many years, and then took a much needed almost 5 year-long break in 2018 when i realized i had stopped enjoying it. when i made the decision to come back, i felt like i was better able to enjoy it after experiencing other gaming communities in the time i was away i'm an immortal bracket player so i know first hand how rough this community can be, and while i'm sorry to see you go (been following since before you started dota, and will of course continue after you stop playing), i totally empathize and support the decision. it does feel like this game has permanently rewired some people's brains. they're unable to interact normally with others on a basic level when they're playing the game, and it was really disappointing (though not surprising) to see how little this had changed while i was away. i always, always recommend people take breaks from dota 2 in particular because of how much it (and other mobas) can snare you in this cycle of frustration and desire to improve. if it's not fun, switching to something else is always a good option. happy to see what you play next
I've never played or heard of a MOBA that isn't viciously toxic (especially as you rank up). There's too much at stake for players (rating) and the game archetype encourages min-maxing metagaming since there are 5 potential points of failure or weakness to ruin what is at stake. Fundamental game design flaw with the genre, IMO 🤷♂
Humans want to win when there is something at stake, and when you do something that is counter to that wish, they get angry at you. Its just how MOBA's work. I think grubby just doesn't like dota2 enough that he is willing to put up with it. You have to like dota2 to a special degree to put up with this shit.
@MechShark well regardless of what is at stake there is a never a point where it is okay to air out your frustrations on other people. It's fun sometimes yes but does not make it okay. If you are really actually trying to win you would guide the person who is performing bad. Give them pointers and tell them where to be or reassure them that it's okay just play safe and don't die. But no one is interested in that kind of growth, they just want to use dota 2 VC or Chat as a therapeutic tool to shit on someone. The people that do that are the ones stuck on the same rank forever. BSJ has proven that with a better attitude you do gain MMR he used to be insufferable
@@MechShark was trying to write more thoughts about matchmaking, data analytics and some other (gaming society things)... but somewhat many things are just reemerging patterns...:D
Exactly the reason I stopped playing Heroes of the Storm. It was such a great game once. Back in 2015 to, let’s say, 2019, the community was great, it was a delight to play. So many great memories. Nowadays, only people flaming and griefing. One moment someone on your team deems you did a mistake is enough for them to screw the game for the whole team. And just like you I recognized: I don’t have to do this. I don’t have to play this. There are so many awesome games out there, let’s invest my time in these.
Honestly Grubby I peaced out during your DotA 2 phase. It's just not the game for me. But I'm so excited to see you going back to WC3 and variety streams. I love the Dune content and can't wait to see more! Would love to see you try Age 4 again, now that it's in a much better place, or just whatever you're passionate about! I guess what I'm saying is, I like this move, and I'm excited to see where you go from here.
Grubby, I have been following you since the early Warcraft days and I played tons of dota (too much), and I couldnt have said it better. you have my deepest respect, that you climbed all the way up and you share my opinion about this game.
When Grubby said "love the details of complex games", I immediately thought about PoE and PoE 2. The complexity of PoE is sth that i miss in other games. I have yet to find another single player game that has as much depth and theorycrafting as PoE has.
I played today for 7 years straight and stopped for 2 years. I never knew you before you started dota, but watching you discover the game for the first time re-ignited my love for the game and I couldn't help but play again for the past year or so. I uninstalled the game yesterday, maybe because you weren't there to inspire me during your break - lol. I'm actually super happy you're moving on. Like you said, this is maybe one of the greatest games ever, but can have a very negative effect on mental well-being. Glad it introduced me to your channel and I'll keep looking to you for new and interesting games that won't devour my soul.
Thanks for playing Dota 2 Grubby! I'm honoured that I had the chance to play with you. I think that match was around Ancient bracket and you were playing Ursa pos1. We lost the game but it was fun that we tried our best. Good luck Grubby!
Thank you for sharing your very well-articulated reasoning for stepping away. I discovered you on the Twitch Dota 2 game page and always enjoyed watching your streams. Your positive attitude and growth mindset is inspiring and contagious. I hope to tune in to another Dota stream of yours sometime again, but wish you the very best no matter what the future brings!
I had the same realization plus i became a part time vengeful spirit... playing with positive friends with a similar mindset might be the fix but i enjoyed your journey and you playing different games. so just do whats best for you!
As a dedicated fan of Grubby's Dota 2 streams, there's something I want to bring up. Sometimes, Grubby picks heroes he's not familiar with in ranked matches, even when viewers suggest trying unranked mode. Then, when he struggles with these heroes, he insists it's a game and he has a right to play any hero he chooses and says any possible reports are illegitimate. But here's the thing: many of us don't have the luxury of playing tons of games every day. We try hard to climb ranks in the limited time we get. So, when a teammate picks a hero they don't know and messes up the only match I get to play for the day, it's frustrating. I think it's fair to report them for ruining the experience. Personally, if I want to try out a new hero, I stick to unranked matches. Despite this issue, I'm still a loyal fan. Whenever Grubby plays Dota, his stream is my top priority.
I think you're missing the point. If you're constantly learning from your mistakes and getting better, losing a game here and there due to a bad teammate isn't going to materially impact your MMR in the long run. People get so focused on individual games instead of the larger journey of keeping an open mind and improving. Also, I've noticed DOTA players often pile onto the person who's doing bad, cementing the loss instead of thinking how they can still win the game or keeping a positive environment. I don't really agree with the way he's handling the problem, that's his decision; however, the problem does definitely exist. It's crazy to be me that in certain ranks you're "griefing" if you pick an off meta hero until someone in professional picks that same hero and proves it's viable. The community is super close minded and toxic. The above is a justification of that behavior instead of acknowledging it. Lastly, playing unranked can be a poor way to practice heroes. Sometimes people are playing unranked due to large skill disparities in their party rank. This can lead to an immortal vs archon lane, which isn't a viable way to practice.
@@wtryo so playing unranked can be a poor way to practice heroes so you rather pick it on ranked and ruin the game for me but I should not flame you because one loss here and there will not affect my MMR in the long run? Having an off game is one thing but picking a hero you do not know how to play on ranked is a grief and you deserve a report for it. That is my humble opinion.
@@Prokophh It's rarely one person's fault that a game is lost. Dota players have a tendency to pile on to whoever is perceived to be playing bad. I suspect it's a defense mechanism to prevent any examination of their own play. The reality is you always have the ability to play better. Change your focus and you'll tilt your teammates less while becoming a better player yourself. If I can smurf and win nearly 100% of my games, maybe that person trying a new hero never was the big problem? If yatoro played in my games, he'd have near 100% WR. So, why focus on the guy playing a new hero or the person simply having a bad game instead of improving yourself?
gotta say, love to see someone making a video about this, because its really true! however, i would say, that its not actually on part of the players who are stuck in that mentality . . . its equally as much about the mechanics of a game pushing for its outcome . . . im gonna give a real example of my own experience . . . i used to play call of duty warzone 2.0 and i loved it, it was the coolest gaming experience i had ever had since my break from pc gaming for 5 plus years. . . you could drive cars, you could perform parkour like escapes from enemy squads, jump through windows, fly helicopters and EVEN take part in meta missions within the battlefield: stuff like; hack cell phones, computers, relocate cars of importance and drive them to a certain location, hunt targeted players, blow up safes for weaponry and cash. . . IT WAS AWESOME! THEN came warzone 3.0 update what players now were stuck with, were all the old maps from warzone 2.0 GONE. 2 new maps: a small map called "prison island", that was the only map you could play ranked on and a medium sized map, with some name i cant remember, that looked like a bad version of the old maps from WZ2.0 WHAT IS MY POINT HERE? well, to my experience, the player base declined after warzone 2.0 and so did the joy of playing the game not only was the map called "prison island" but basically all missions, all vehicles, all the depth of game play value, to a modern, complex variety had been swiped. . . the missions were now reduced to only 3 missions: target kill, shoot down drones and hack roof sattelite computers. the 3 lamest missions of the game. roof satelites were very difficult to achieve on your own. target killing was not much of a meta apart from on going battle and the new mission "shoot down drones" . . . was just shooting at 10 flying drones that deployed where you started the mission. they could as well have removed the mission system enteirely. . . . same for vehicles. . . there was absolutely no point, what so ever, to drive vehicles on prison island. . . unless you wanted to alert everyone on where you were and become a live target . . . (unless youre a puckling puckler ofc) but so. . . game mechanics and ragers: go hand in hand the game developers need to make sure they dont listen to the wrong influences when developing a game. the wrong influences basically struck ALL THE JOY out of warzone 3.0 in a better world warzone 3.0 would have had a new system with meta missions, making them more valuable for team based gaming, if not: an essential part, for earning squad upgrades, weapons etc, important for end game of the match. . . and made the game more complex. they didnt do that however: and stuck were the players with a cod game that was more like counter strike than cod. . . playing a map called "prison island" and you wonder why players become resentful, angry, raging, hostile the game just wasnt fun to play: and the rage etc, is just sloping decline until players finally accept, that the relationship theyve accuired for a game throughout the years, is dead and has become destructive: and thats the evolution of any destructive relationship: it takes time to identify what it has become and move on. my point is: the game developers are THE MAIN, culprits, either knowingly or unknowingly, in creating a "toxic" player base we can dwelve down further into the "rabbit hole" on why that is. . . but its worth mentioning . . . now lets have a silent moment in rememberance for warzone 2.0 and all its glorious moments. Amun
agree with u, used to like dota 2 but stopped playing 1-2 years ago. its very depressing when your teammates (or even someone on the other team) just starts throwing the game 10 minutes into the game just because you accidentally stole one of his kills (mind you, accidentally) or sometimes even just one creep. or some teammates give up very easily instead of trying till the end when there is still obviously a chance to come back, etc.
Honestly i played the game and undestand it since it launches but yeah i agree i love watching someone going through the learning and enjoying it ,i know a lot of guys think theyre just better and not enjoy the game anymore but honestly watching you play is a real pleasure and probably helping for a lot of newcomers or guys being stuck and its just a pleasure youre kind and enjoyable person to watch i really hope youre still playin dota 2 sometimes. Cause communities need personnality with youre exposure like you whatever the bad and toxic people i think the more the game is hard the more toxic guy who thinks theyre better you got ,but theyre really good people too in here wo are kind to share and learn and give their knowledge. (sorrry im not a master in english) but i was really happy to saw you come into this game since me and my friends were fan of you since war3 even tho one my friends played you a couple of times in war3 and told me if we could play one game together in dota2 could be awesome telle me if ur in to make him happy :D. much love and respect grubby
He was one of the best french war3 players fan of you played the better ,was a dream to play you,he played toad and the top fr and some eu etc a lot of times, beat intox at 5 am in (friends lan) completely drunk with me ,invented the tower rush so hes now a daddy but still play really good in dota2 i really want him to play with you to surprise him :D really could be awesome.when i saw start playing dota 2 i told him ur playing dota2 he was so happy and was amazed by ur mentality he thinks thats why you're good and i thinks he deserve to play with one of his heroes one day hes a good dad never been bad or toxic and just still love play games hope you can play a game with him if ur interested playin with him hes immortal too playin meepo and still really good xD honestly i or we would love to welcome you to play some game with him could be amazing surprise really. + its his birthday soon and i dont know what to give him. so if u have time time for humanity and share passion im on it 10000 % :D (hope u read me)
I related to that real hard, trying so hard to keep it in together and focusing on losing games is hard enough, trying to keep my team mentally stable is even harder. Like, that's not supposed to be my responsibility man, people queue for the wrong reasons.
I picked up Dota a little over a month ago coming from a decade of League. Your content has been so informative and enlightening not only for the game but the psychological aspect of competitive games in general. I always looked down on Dota being in the League club, but I can see myself agree with your statements about the game itself, most definitely a 10/10 game. Peaking 2250mmr so far I have not yet reached the bracket where you see this kind of toxicity but fingers crossed that my league experience has hardened me enough to push through. 😂
I think becoming a mid laner, where your own skills (that you have proven to be able to train consistently) matter the most, you can give an early advantage to your team, which always minimizes griefing, and boosts mood. Sometimes you can end the game by yourself. Also, actually having a space to become better and reputated for it, you can join a pro team, and thats when you play the amazing satisfying dota you see in DPC. Or just find yourself a team of 5 and group queue. There are many ways to bypass toxic players, if you don't want to handle them.
I swear man getting teammates raging and not understanding people have bad games is insane. The teammates really ruin it. It's so rare to get a nice teammate.
I started to watch you A to Z series and thought about getting back into the game, but I probably shouldn't. I'm way more sensitive about things like this, so it would just be abad idea. Thanks for scaring me straight.
"That's what being a pro gamer is all about. It's learning to process losing." -Grubby I literally watch you for your attitude and light heart amigo. Thank you for sharing your gentle wisdom.
Long ago I was doing QA testing for a friend's Steam game. They asked how they could make AI more fun. In my feedback I told him that the AI could every now and then flame the player. They put in that feature, lol.
Now I'm 36, that's why I mostly don't play ranked anymore at any game really. I was the UK number one when it was played all the way back on GameSpy. I think I was around 300 overall at red alert 2, I think I was the only soviet player in the top 400-500 as Yuri was so busted. But the more I worked the more I dipped off. I couldn't get higher than platinum in smite. Or past 13k MMR in hearthstone battlegrounds. It doesn't really bother me though. I know only playing 2 times a week is going to get results like that. I mute all the randoms, and just duo queue games with brother. If the rest of the gamers are just NPCs nowadays I find it more fun that way.
Hey man, I've been following you since 15 odd years ago watching your WC3 contents. As I grew older, I switched to MOBA along with my friends, and was pleasantly surprised you picked Dota2 up. You'll always be an inspiration to audience in picking new games, analyzing with an individual framework, and just enjoying the journey. Cheers from Thailand!
Ive known who you were grubby since i saw you compete in SC2 wings of liberty. I was super happy you started bringing back WC3 hype so long ago, but I had always wondered why you never played dota since you were a hots guy and a WC3 guy. I even asked you once on your stream, if you would ever play dota and you replied something like Ive never played dota before or you never considered it. So I was super happy when, years later, you decided to finally pick it up and take that journey. Dota 2 is easily one of the most complex games ever made, and also one of the most hyper competitive at almost every level of skill. So it doesnt shock me that the community tends to be as toxic as it is at times, dota 2 and Overwatch for me are the two most toxic communities in any game ive ever seen I think. regardless of that, Im glad you enjoyed the game itself and can appreciate it and had fun playing it, it truly is a masterpiece when it stands on its own, and like all games we enjoy at some point we probably have to put them down, even if its for a little while (or a long while). But its all about the journey in the end. so happy you gave it a chance and was able to enjoy it.
You see this was my experience as well. Ive been playing the game for a lot of time, but then I stopped in 2018. So the other day I decided to play a game or two again, game is changed, and its like i never played it. The second game I was immediately reminded why i stopped. I just don't want to deal with some toxic terminally online person. I turned it off and don't plan on coming back again.
Just mute toxic people right away, while also understanding that these people are just mainly venting out their frustration to someone, and it's usually nothing personal or even something you did wrong in the game. You don't even absolutely NEED to communicate to get to even Immortal (one guy proved this right in the past) so you could even pre-mute everyone (there is even an option for this in the options-menu!)! They can still see your chats btw. Pings and chat wheel are quite adequate to communicate with your team.
Can feel where you're coming from. Some people tend to forget that it's just a video game and it's normal to lose a lot. Recently I played the game for only 1 or two times a week and never get the feeling of missing the game throughout my downtime. Great having you while it lasted. Hope to see your future endeavors.
This is the most truthful video ever created on the internet. Long time hon/league/dota/dota 2 player since 2007. I feel the exact same way, dota 2 is the greatest mobs ever, but the people you play with make it not worth playing. Many don’t deserve to win, let alone play a ranked game mode.
These reasons are exactly why I quit Dota 2 after almost 4 years of playing it. In about 7/10 ranked matches, there'd be at least 1 or 2 assholes on my team or toxic opponents. I always have to calm my teammates down and be friendly, but it rarely works. The matches are also too long, waiting for hero picks, waiting for creeps, dying, and then more waiting... Winning felt great, but losing after investing an hour or more felt really frustrating, especially if you are playing with toxic players
Hey man, love your video and your take is 100% valid. My one take away though is that this isn't a Dota issue but rather a competitive game issue. Competitive games no matter what game title will have this type of mentality. League,Valo,CS,Dota,fortnite, Apex
This was pretty similar to my experience with league of legends. There came a point a couple years ago where a teammate said something multiple times that was completely unwarranted and entirely unacceptable to me in chat. In that moment, I realized if someone said that to me during a pick up basketball game, I would just leave the court (nobody should be looking to actually fight). For a long time I felt obligated to always push for a win, no matter who my teammates were or what they said but my soul was worth more. At one point, I was probably something of a ghost, and while I can hold my head high that on the whole I was not a proactive flamer, the experiences playing the game definitely took something from me. So in that game, I just afk'd and left. There was a time that was unthinkable for me, but I have to say looking back it was a decision I would make again, and I would support teammates who did it in similar situations. There's a certain level of self-respect a person has to have in order to be healthy, a realization that there's only so much toxic and abusive behavior you can tolerate before your goals become self-defeating. If I have to pre-mute everyone in order to enjoy a game, I feel like I'm relegating them to the status of a bot, which is not-respectful, or I've accepted an extremely high level of cynicism towards the game which bears a price against the spirit of life. There are many games I no longer play where I look back and feel like I learned quite a lot about the nature of life and the universe. In a sense, I still play those games, I just live them through life. But with league I still feel this void, that there's something gone. A lot of MOBA players remind me of gamblers who are chasing losses. That you double down and try to get back something you've lost, only to lose more of your soul in the process. Naturally the cycle will repeat until there's nothing left. I think it takes a lot of maturity to realize losing is not necessarily something to be feared, and should be embraced as part of the circle of life. If you're afraid of failure or losing its very difficult to know when to quit, its very difficult to walk away from an even greater defeat.
Your dota videos are amazing! Its unfortunate that a lot of people (including my friends) have to either play a lot or absolutely not at all. However as a streamer i understand it is different than what we people experience. Furthermore for a player like u who i would say has learning and ranking up as a major enjoyment in playing dota, i imagine it becomes less interesting once u get really good. In a way u have gone through what most of us are still going through (and hopefully enjoying). I myself dont play Dota often but i wont deny any invite from a friend asking to play Dota, nor am i looking to get into other game that is as intense as dota. All i wish is when u find urself randomly playing a dota match on a wednesday night, maybe offstream, that u can share how its like playing from a perspective that a lot of us (and more of us should!!) have: a not regular, a not warmed up, a not having the highest possible personal rank, a not spectated and backseated, a not having to win and queue again, a casual Dota enjoyer :)
I've taken multiple breaks from Dota that last anywhere from a couple months to over a year. I absolutely feel your pain. I had a game yesterday where I allowed a 2-11 pudge on my team to ruin my night. Whenever he was dead, which was a lot of the game, he was telling me what to do and flaming me if I didn't use an active effect on a weapon. You can certainly tell when someone is a miserable person by how they interact with others in the game.
I get you 100% Mr Grubs. This is how i feel the last 5 years. So I have been playing Dota on and off like a bad relationship. Would be nice to see you on the South-African server. Most of the time friendly people are there. Would suck to loose you as well. So many good people are being bullied out of the game. It is not fair. I wish Gaben could resolve this issue with the POWER of AI.
Really good reasoning and I have the same issues with Dota2 community. I recently started playing World of Warcraft WOTLK classic expansion, found a guild and when we are raiding together 10-25 people on discord, all working towards achieving the common goal, defeating the bosses, talking to each other, hearing the different accents and ethnicities. So good. I think there is a content potential in WOW as well, try it :) Also WOTLK expansion which is now live in Classic era WOW is about Arthas, Frostmourne so it is really close to W3 TFT :)
Yo Grubby ik snap je gevoel helemaal! Ik ben zelf op een dota break van inmiddels 2 maanden. Ik kijk nogsteeds content zoals jou kanaal en esl, maar zelf queuen heb ik al tijden niet meer gedaan. Ik heb 1 potje tegen je gespeeld toen ik net van een break kwam (daarvoor was ik legend 5) en in herald terecht kwam, jij was net begonnen. De impact die je toen al had in de game was duidelijk merkbaar en ookal had ik 30 kills op disruptor, tegen jou clinkz speelstijl was niks te beginnen. Geniet van je break en ik denk oprecht dat je potentie hebt om esl te spelen (mocht dit überhaupt iets zijn wat je ziet zitten). Welke keuze je ook maakt, ik wens je het aller beste en je bent een top gozâh zoals we in dh zeggen 😋
Hi Grubby, thank you very much for your honest opinion on this. It sounded much like playing street basketball with random people (both teams). You always get people that are chill and great teammates with a mix of critical jerks who only want to win and can't take losses. I guess in person these jerks still hold back a bit due to social norms and online gaming environments have allow them to become toxic trolls. I play with a few real life friends over the years only vs Bots mainly due to our lack of skills and to avoid turning a fun get together into a who's fault we lost. As a 6 yr fan from the Grubby channel enjoying your WC3 videos, just want to say thank you for the great game play and for your awesome personality.
I quit for good after too many teammates not playing seriously, like drow mid picks vs traditional mids. Played since 6.3x Dota 1 but the community has gotten so bad it's not worth it.
I found you through your dota 2 streams, and I'll be staying through whatever you decide to play instead because you're just a delight to watch no matter what you're playing. I loved watching you play dota because unlike watching pros playing, I was watching someone who was also figuring out some stuff here and there, someone who tried new heroes and new things that they weren't good at and it was okay! But I know a good part of the community doesn't think the same, a lot of people seem to be more focused on telling you that you're bad instead of enjoying the pure chaos of someone trying to learn a new role or a new hero at high mmr.
But again! You're a lovely person and your streams are great, if you're no longer having fun with the game, then don't force yourself! Keep the good memories you made, and we'll move on with you into the next thing!
Thank you for everything Grubby, keep up the good work!
I mean what do u expect from them? the game hasnt seen innvoation in last 20 year. they literally stole whole dota 2 idea from warcraft 3 custom map community. they don't even have balls to make more then 1 gamemode. in fact they don't even understand the essence of MOBA genre. they still think that MOBA genre is DOTA aka Defend of the Ancinents when in fact it was 100 00 00 00 0 of community made maps. just like league of legends. MOBA studios that still only catter to conquest/DOT playeraers are outdated. that is why ARENA is the biggest open niche on the market. watch the King's Avatar animation on 9 anime or youtube. u cant even surrender ingame like so u are forced to play this snowbally clown fiesta that DOTA map that was never meant for esports anyway. i made quite few videos about this topic
@@GamingDualities I don't know what you're on about cause most of the things you said are either incorrect or seem to come from someone who hasn't been having fun with the MOBA genre for a while but refuses to let it go out of attachment to the nostalgia it brings. It's fine to grow out of stuff man, it's ok to not enjoy certain genres and games anymore. When it reaches that point the best thing you can do is follow Grubby's example and move on to the next thing before you sour any good memories you made.
... And also, none of the things you said justify people being rude to Grubby for trying new heroes and roles. What I expect from any human being is decency and respect, and I honestly still can't fathom getting so worked up at a streamer trying to learn your favorite hero. Because honestly when Grubby was trying out Hoodwink for the first time I was beyond *elated* to watch him get better at playing her. If anything I think I'm a bit upset I won't get to watch him learn any of the other heroes I enjoy but I still applaud him for knowing when to step away from something.
what is grubby to dota 2 community is what I am to smite community. i loved smite for more then 12 years. never been toxxic to no1. but lets not pretend we don't have some major game and community issues. i made many videos talking about this or state of moba games in general. also watch the kings avatar animation on 9 anime. best gaming animation out there@@coldspicy
Then allow to pass through that magnificent journey
This is the whole beauty of DOTA.
It's very fun 1v1 3v3 and 5v5.
If you are well versed in Warcraft you can be very resourceful when it comes to DOTA.
Some very creative strategies were being developed over the years.
Dagon on Nerubian Assassinn, Ion Shell on invisible heroes like Bounty Hunter, some heroes that were support being played like carries.
Anyone who has trained 1v1 knows many heroes have carry late game potential. Anyone who has played other custom maps knows the late game effects of critical, bash, evasion and how to stack them.
Many people see one pro game with certain role/item and if others do not play that meta, they just hate it.
I 100% claim that playing 5v5 with the people that are not like that is one of the most fun gaming experiences one can have.
And I have played all sorts of games and love a whole lot of different genres, but at the very very top, few games in certain cases exceed everything else.
It is somewhat paradoxical that many people play team-based video games yet are completely incapable of fostering effective teamwork. They become instantly frustrated when someone makes a mistake or plays in a way they disagree with-even if that approach is successful. This behavior effectively handicaps their own team. In my opinion, these environments are among the most toxic I've encountered. As a result, I have quit playing these games entirely.
I’ve only played Predecesor, for a few hours as an absolute noob, before being turned off by the toxicity in pubs. Most competitive games I pick up (FPS, Fighting, Sports, etc…) I’m definitely well above the average gamer. Your comment accentuates what “always-online/multiplayer/games as a service” has done to the entire gaming landscape over time
Games are supposed to be fun and entertaining. Do not hesitate to drop games that you're not enjoying. Trust me people are gonna feel much better emotionally and mentally if they let go of the Sunk Cost Fallacy, feeling like they have to continue on a game because they already started it.
There isn't a lot of options for single player games that are competitive. I would switch to something that didn't make me rely on 4 other random people
3k hours in Dota 2, quit for the same reasons back in 2016. Great game, horrible community.
this game is for old players that played dota 1 in past.its not made for new players.
grubby cant get views now .he got alot of views and subscribers and in his twitch and youtube only for his dota 2 content,now he left and says dota 2 is bad
i am not gonna watch him playing other games than dota 2,he has to say goodby to his views on youtuve and twitch
@@amiralia8237 You talk like a loser with zero social skills.
@@amiralia8237goodbye
@@amiralia8237 you know hes been playing pro at the warcraft 3 scene right? for 11 years. he didnt get all his community from dota 2...... and most liely lost views from playing dota 2 because the game is not for eveyone. you assume a lot of things from someone you havent watched at all. and this video is 5 months old, and hes been getting views since then so thats no issue and wont be giving up his channels. like he said in the video, his content is not beholden to dota 2. at all please go outside and touch some grass
@@amiralia8237 You sound salty ngl
I felt that a lot of solo queueing in DOTA was just managing everyone's egos to make sure that no one cooked off unnecessarily and started feeding couriers or throwing. You're spot on your assessment with regard to why people are like that, they have played for so long and it has become their lives. They no longer even enjoy the game, but they feel they have no where else to go, so they stay on the game and lash out whenever there is any discomfort. I found that playing in low priority was much more fun because people were just playing for fun rather than for points and ego
You don't need to manage anyone just play the game
@@tuoljg Nope if you want to win there's a lot of babysitting needed.
Word for word but make it league of legends. I honestly didn't mind someone going unexpectedly afk or having a bad game, or even going on losing streaks. What exhausted me was having to handhold people that haven't developed healthy mechanisms to dealing with emotions or problems. My random jungler accidently giving your lane a kill should not warrant you running it down and feeding every lane, sprinkling slurs left and right.
This is so true. It's also why it's been so strange to see Valve kill the mini-game and arena scene. Those mini games are a GREAT way to play Dota but not really play Dota. Gives you the player-break you need while still enjoying the game client and heroes.
@@Gyokan7I am sorry, I am not the babysitter of morons and I don't have to endure maladapted personalities. I mute the idiot and don't give a flying crap about their idiotic behavior (feeding, whatever). Just assume it is a Mega creep programmed to raise the difficulty of your game, period.
You worded this so well. I'm sorry about your bad experiences, it's heartbreaking.
Glad you also had a fantastic time as well though!
Nothing heartbreaking about it you just outed yourself. He explained everything. He's not in pain, he didn't express that he needed encouragement. How you heard that is beyond me and anyone who listened to what the man said. You wrote something nice though so there is that at least.
Imagine mobas but people respect each other and are helpful and in a good mood
Imagine all the people. Laning, having fun
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one@@GrubbyTalks
I hope someday you'll join us
And DotA will be fun...
league was like that in its beta. Was a lot of fun. People just playing for fun. Game got so sweaty.
mb in the afterlife, or with the Venusian :)
I just played Axe, I have 515 games with Axe and 58% winrate. I'm Divine 5.
I had to lane against MK + Dazzle which are both Lane Counters to Axe.
At the start of the game I said I cant lane there and I have to dodge lane and that I would jungle.
All agreed but when things got hard they started flaming me for not being able to help.
We won the game very easy in the end, i had to mute everybody after 10 minutes and whole team reported me for griefing and I got low prio instantly after the game.
My stats were 8/8/28 second most dmg in team, and by far most damage tanked. I also bought crimson and pipe to help my team mates survive.
I could also go AFK when they all told me they reported me etc but i didnt because when I win its good for me and i dont have to see those ppl again.
Last year I did recallibration and won 8/10 games, got +870 MMR and got 2 times reported for griefing during the games, had 2x low priority and had 6k behaviour score.
So algorythm gives me +870MMR but you toxic ppl throwing reports because I dont play like you want me to play send me to hell.
Dota always had toxic ppl but somehow it got worse and I think it's because of this infinite report bullshit. When you had 6 reports and u had to carefully choose if it's actually worth to report someone, everything was better. Now the system is actually making to threaten other players because you can report them anytime for anything.
Thats blizzard for you. It's one of the reasons i stopped playing overwatch. Any sort of criticism like asking a teammate to "b", or "what are you doing?" and you can be reported. Blizz doesnt investigate and you are eventually silenced and banned for "abusive language." I get what grubby is saying but it works both ways. The most toxic people to me are the ones that abuse and report everyone for every little thing.
Don't be those 1 or 2 heroes only pickers.
@@ZackChannel Im not only 1 or 2 hero picker. All my top heroes have almost 60% winrate in 100 games minimum.
That's the mistake, who buys pipe and crimson?
@@KradDrows literally 2 of the most broken items in the game and u asking who buys it?
I recently tried to teach my friend DotA 2 who was coming from League of Legends. I came out of a 6 year hibernation to play some games with him and absolutely forgot how much patience you need when queuing up without a full team (the last two years I played was only with my college team we were competing in JDL with). It took so much effort to defuse people flaming each other, and sometimes never worked. I ended up finishing our game session emotionally exhausted, and this is exactly why I stopped playing. Many times I was playing diplomacy simulator more than DotA
/mute
I am amazed it worked at all, forget 'sometimes'
I should not report you - Skywrath (still reports entire team tho)
Yep. Pretty much. Something similar had actually happened a few years back in cs for me too. Which is absolutely ridiculous. If you play too well, people think you are cheating and you get kicked, if you play too bad, you get kicked. If it's a premade you get kicked ( they also give you different task like scream in your mic like a chicken or you get kicked), if buy when everyone saves you get kicked... etc etc... and the best of all, if you get kicked too often like 4 times I think. You get banned... What a great game concept. Things like that absolutely made me not want to play online games for many years now, because with the community like that it felt like literal torture. Especially when they are mocking you for trying...
That is what competitive gaming is and sports, what do you think the difference is between the top players in anything...its not just skill or hard work its also mental strength...same in life,
As a person who quit LoL recently (and other MOBAs long ago), I feel absolutely the same.
And also as a person who played all those 3 MOBAs, I totally agree that voice chat experience is really cool, but could get toxic really quickly!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
He's like a gentleman from a more civilized age.
yeah he is out of touch and larping, a bit on the spectrum as well, no hard feelings it just is what it is
@@beridledodopidop4822 no. I meant to just point out the culture difference between the older rts community and the toxic highly competitive moba communities, while at the same time referencing a Starwars scene describing the old lightsaber as a superior weapon from an older era.
@@beridledodopidop4822dudes mad that TH-cam man doesn't want to play a game. Depressing lol.
@@beridledodopidop4822bro I love grubby dearly but this shit was so hilarious hahahahaha
compared to dota scum he is lol
I just decided today to uninstall Dota after playing for 11 years. So much of what you said resonated with me. I often recognise that after playing a few games, I am in such a bad mood after. Gaming is supposed to be a fun break from a long tiresome day at work for me.
So many of my games have become too try hard. I recently tried Muerta support because I saw it on the pro scene. I was so excited to try it. Even before the game started I got called names and reported. During the game I was yelled at, blamed for everything going wrong, and I just realised...im not having fun with this and i dont want to play with these people. Im very open to suggestions from my team to get better, but its rarely they even do that, they just say uninstall and go kys.
I even got toxic myself to "get back at other toxic people".
I wanna go back to games where i have fun and be involved in positive environments. Dota is not that for me anymore.
Great video grubby
Moba is like that only...play other games
See you tomorrow
CSS was a perfect game for fun. With all the minigames or zombie mods, devs and people just forgot what games are really meant for, all just yearning for progression and competion. fun no longer exists this day and age in gaming. fucking kids ruined it
im not sad because its over
im happy because it happened
not playing dota like a zombie has improved life
Dota was my main game for many years, I played it's earliest versions and was instantly hooked. Played customs, the clan tda era and onto the garena scene, then i joined league beta, heroes of newerth then moved on to dota 2 when it started.
I saw dotas transformation from a casual custom map to a competitive game with massive tournaments. The level of competition was insane, but at the casual level the increase of competitiveness added a different kind of fun for a few years.
But then the community seemed to turn on itself. Just like you said, many games were no longer an enjoyable experience. People didnt want to win, they needed to win. Constant name calling, blaming everyone instead of focusing on what they could do better. This obviously wasnt all players, but it was enough players that I was no longer having fun. I did the pre mute for a while but it just wasnt the same.
I decided to take a break and uninstall thinking i would get the desire to play again.
It was about 5 years until I decided to play dota again. Obviously I was no longer at the same skill level(i was good, but nowhere near pro level) . I played one game and was harassed by my team starting from my item choice in the load screen. They reported me told me, to never come back, and called me names for the entire 35 minute game. I thought to myself, i didnt have any fun or enjoyment. Why would i spend my free time doing this. That was probably 2018 i think? Ive never played dota since. I used to be one of the biggest fans, but that part of the community has completely ruined the game for me.
I always told people there should be surrender button, but toxic community doesn’t want it. They want to sit 40 min in lost game and blame each other
You know what you're absolutely right, I had the exact same journey as you except that every now and then I do play with my friends in a party of 5. We always flame each other in a joking way and have a good laugh but I got out of the toxicity that is online moba. The free time you gain from quitting dota is honestly a blessing, make good use of it
Omg. But yeah, relatable. The toxicity spreads all the way down to lower leagues, where I was.
@@kurrwaas a League of Legends player: trust me, surrender doesn't make anything better, it creates a whole new problem
@@shacuras8201Yes I've experienced this first hand, surrender option also have it's own problems or it raises more problems for example many people rage quit at some point in that 25-30min playing!
I remember when I found your channel through dota 2. Watching your climb from Herald to Immortal inspired me to try to do the same. Now that I have gotten to Legend I just want to say thank you for inspiring me to become a better player and also getting me back into rts games like wc3 and sc2. Keep up the good work and I wish you all the best.
Mad respect for you and for that decision, dude. I had very similar experience with dota2 and quit for exact same reason (although it was 10 years ago). And don't worry about moving on, I really appreciate your personality and openness, and will watch your content for as long as you will stay true to your values.
If you want to explore other competitive 1v1 games instead of more team games, then I would highly recommend fighting games if you have any interest in it. You have the right mindset about processing losses and learning from them after all the years that you've competed in 1v1 RTS. That kind of skill and mindset would carry over really well to learning fighting games as well (and also zero toxic teammates to ruin the experience for you ofc, it's just you and your single opponent).
I had a reverse situation, played Dota for around 10 years, competed and went to tournaments with different teams and it was a blast. However, after a while I had a break and had no team, so I started playing solo for some time. The difference in the experience you get in terms of fun and improvements is so huge that at some point it felt like a waste of time playing solo due to reasons you mentioned. So, I transitioned to Starcraft 2 and fighting games, as those don't have teammates and it felt amazing competing and improving in those.
That said, if you ever feel like returning to dota, I highly recommend playing with a full team for max enjoyment instead of random pubs.
This. I never understood DOTA or MOBA games in general putting more weight in grinding the game solo queue when you don't need to be Einstein to figure out that MOBAs are TEAM games and that's where the real game of DOTA is. Your interaction and synergies with your team, knowing your opponent team and finding ways to counter it, and actually being CARING and KIND for your teammates to keep team morale and prowess high. I wish the general community normalize ranked team play instead of the lunacy of solo queue. And I have always thought if you're gonna solo queue at that point why not just play fighting games or 1v1 RTS.
What games you play besides Starcraft2? Tekken 8 maybe?
@@kayosensei All of this is true. But limiting yourself (really hard) by playing with random teammates is actually helping you develop your personal skills. As opposed to playing with a party where they can cover for your shortcomings and preventing you learn from your mistakes.
I'm not saying one is better, just that it exists and having high rating (previously they were divided) in Solo Queue was a representation of your personal skills where Team Rating could be highly inaccurate.
Lets play sc2. What is your battlenet acct?
@@kayosensei There is an option to do just this, and it's not abnormal to play in a team with friends. I used to do this as well but I found out that it can be even a more stressful enviroment than solo queue and has a potential to even ruin friendships... there is an option to mute toxic people and people should really utilize it, rather than keep nagging back and forth which never brings any fruit in the end, but only more toxicity and misery. There's also an option in the options-menu to pre-mute everyone, so that you only see their pings and chat wheel, which is quite adequate to communicate in Dota (one guy even managed to get to Immortal rank like this). They can still see your chats and hear you btw.
Unfortunately I believe this is a universal phenomenon, teams are toxic on all games now, people are getting toxic everywhere even out of the games
This guy actually gets it.
Almost like the planet is dying, or people have become more entitled/violent since 2020.
Again, I blame the environments we have created.
I have noticed that avoiding F2P games, helps cut down on the toxicity a bit though.
@@istjimmyi4202 It's basically a world wide mouse utopia.
@@istjimmyi4202 The Social Media generation doesn't seem to realize they're talking to a real person on the other end of the line. That's why they can be creepy and toxic as much as they want. They feel like they're just talking to an avatar.
Yeah, if ur not a pro and u dont play to have fun then why play at all. Familiarity is a good point. Like someone who goes to college and picks a major they think they would be good at based on familiarity instead of figuring out what they actually enjoy.
I agree with your sentiment.
However people find different things fun. For some they may seek more chill and relaxed and experimenting gameplay. For others they feed that competitive drive. These players are more likely to be volatile in their mood, so when they experience something that is unacceptable to them in the spirit of being competitive or they feel like they get robbed of something they perceive is theirs by rights, they start losing sight of the end goal: winning competitive games. Some get entrapped, feeling like they've sunk too much time into the game to let go - and indeed the familiarity hypothesis is likely also true for many - so they keep going and they take their previous negative experiences with them. The truly unfortunate thing is that players who are more accepting and chill, like Grubby, who can rub off on others to reflect on their behavior and correct themselves, these players usually find the competitive environment to be dissatisfactory and thus they leave. So you're mostly just stuck with players who are entrapped in the game and unable to break free from their bad patterns. I think this is why the MOBA environments, hell even Call of Duty, so maybe just all amateur competitive environments gets this spiral that ends in what is largely perceived as toxic communities.
Personally I gravitate towards watching streamers who have a positive outlook on the game and a more laid back attitude, instead of high-strung, high-energy people full of conflict and drama who I find taxing. And that's why I love watching Grubby.
People don't know how to have fun in getting smoked too. Just funny trying to 5 man one more time and trying to boss rush their support 😂
@@m.r.r.2636 your comment is similar to the nature of why i now play ff14 and not WoW anymore... was over a decade of WoW for me... but the community just became unbearable, so now ive been comfy and having a great time in ff14 the last few years
I take breaks from DoTA for 10 years.
Being stuck in a losing match for a really long time is poison for player behavior. And seeing your teammate make a mistake gives you flashbacks to the times you were stuck in your base for 40 minutes because you fell behind early on.
Games dragging on for that miniscule chance for a comeback is hype for e-sports, but matches that resolve faster are much better for the vast majority of games.
That's the main issue with playing dota for me is, I could play dota for 3 games... or I could invest nearly 2 hours into a hobby. Every few dota games I would have the chance to learn a song on piano or complete a piece of art, pour significant time into learning a subject or history.
I can handle having bad games, that's a part of team games, you have the highs of a fun team and making friends and the lows of toxicity. But being stuck for 30 minutes at the least when you know that it's over is so painful.
I wish they had a resign vote, where if let's say 4 of 5 people agree your team surrenders the game.
@@hillboy1611 That was a feature I missed about Heroes of Newerth that dota didnt have. I understood the concept of not having a concede vote but playing games with people I hated for an extra 20-30 minutes tilted me beyond anything else.
Game length is a huge issue I quit. It's not fun to play a great game only to lose an hour in because of one mistake
@@hillboy1611This sounds good in theory. But, in practice the toxicity it brings is beyond anything you can imagine. Hon wasn't really toxic and this feature when introduced just made it insufferable. It almost never works as intended (people agree game is over , vote and gg). It mostly goes like this: some people want to forfeit the match after the first couple of minutes (in HoN you cound't even initiate the vote before 10 or 15 mins, and they would go "guys afk now, we vote in 3 mins this is over") if peopel disagree...toxicity on steroids begins, griefing, feeding on purpose and flame wars until everybody submits. It doesn't matter if 2 people disagree or 3... even one griefer ruins the game and can make everybody submit just by saying it he is going to grief...
2:57
The main obstacle in moba games nowadays.... especially for any that passed its growth/golden age
And for learning, I do feel that players from warcraft3/grubby's era have like 5x ability to learn from wins/losses, recent players have no idea how much they could still learn and are full of ego from maybe a gold rank elo?
Back then everyone knows e-sport is an extremely tough and hardworking career, but nowadays people talk like it is a news to learn, bruh
@3:30 this is it! Absolutely on point. Players who became 'vengeful spirits', who can't process loss. Dota2 (but also some other games) can be an incredible toxic swamp, and it's good to leave.
I started playing dota recently and even in casual games people are flaming each other hard, legit 10 hours of gameplay and somehow I need to know all matchups, builds and interactions to not get flamed and called the most absurd words
As a long time league player, I'll never forget when I tried DOTA 2 for the first time and got flamed for dying vs AI by my teammates... who were also playing vs AI.
I'm used to league toxicity but this was a really strange experience to me.
That's crazy. imagine being toxic in PvE
World of Warcraft has entered the chat.
I had a similar experience many years ago. I had been a Halo player and was used to the comradery of those pvp environments. Sure, there was some trash talk, but it wasn't par for the course for people to tell you uninstall and kill yourself and so on.
People were so toxic that I remember swearing off the genre. I didn't play a MOBA and enjoy it or understand the merit of the genre until 2020 or maybe some years after.
I remember to this day ranting to someone about how it was incomprehensible to me that a community of such a complicated game would actively be so hostile to new players. It seemed completely insane to me. That's just MOBAs though, I don't see it ever changing. Ironically, the most fun people to be around and interact with will always be the memers and off-meta one tricks. People like Singed players. They're the only group in MOBAs that play the game a lot and still understand it's a game, not a job, and they generally don't have insane egos.
Edit: I found the match. It was a Co-op bot match where I played Faceless Void and was flamed by my teammates until I Abandoned the game. I remember picking him because he looked cool and I had no idea who to play and was running out of time.
Just mute toxic and move on, and don't think about it too much (there is even an ioption for this in the options-menu!). You don't even absolutely NEED to communicate to get to Immortal (one guy proved this right in the past) so you could even pre-mute everyone! Pings and chat wheel are quite adequate to communicate with your team. In fact I think it might be a good idea to remove the communication (chat and voice) in Dota 2 from pubs, or at least from strict solo queue!
Imagine screaming Go back to league as one of the worst insults 😂. Dota is a cult and I love it. Just mute toxic players ❤
It's really important for people to see folks like Grubby who are emotionally evolved learning and enjoying the game, and being the opposite of toxic.
I'm grateful for the time you've spent playing DOTA 2 for us, and I've watched every one of your DOTA 2 videos. I hope you'll come back soon!
Thanks for being what you want to see - modeling good behavior is so critical ❤
I understand you truly. This happened on my journey a lot of times, I usually have to take some time to reset and this could consist in weeks or even months without playing.
And whenever I return, I fall in love with Dota 2 again. But the thrill only last a limited amount of time.
And I've dedicated my adulthood to Dota 2 (playing it since its release, currently 7.2k MMR and done a couple of casts including TI for the Brazilian community).
Since I tried to make this my passion/work, sometimes I feel stuck to the game. But you know, that's our sin for loving good games a lot.
Take your time, grubby!! we'll be waiting. This is called "saudade" in portuguese and you might miss dota at some point
The random people coming together thing is one of my favourite things, I always join random guilds on my alts in wow and try to help them do better in raids etc. One of the most enjoyable things when you all achieve more than you thought possible at first.
Hey that’s great healthy decision to make. I think the discovery level of you playing DoTA was great, but it’s kind of hard to ignore that chat and players in match are exhausting to deal with.
Always happy to see what’s next 🤙
Grubs peeps are crazy. When i used to grin dota, i just did ur pre-mute strat as u suggest later in this video--and yes, as you point out, you'll miss the beneficial eccentricities of some peeps, but the reality is, at least imho, that's a VERY small % of people who you'll be missing--the overwhelming amount of people i found in game were toxic, or at a minimum unhelpful/distracting. When i premuted, my win % went up dramatically.
thx for another banger vid, still miss watching u maul peeps with orc :)
I played dota WC3 and after Dota2 for many years than I stopped. I was quite good (around 5k mmr) back then. I restarted to play about when you started your Dota 2 career and after 2 games I uninstalled. People are so toxic. There is no place to new player or returning player in this community.
Yes go play league more friendly game actually. Dota sucks so badly
@@kurrwa lol clown comment
yes go play league, tetris also has a great community!
@@beridledodopidop4822 Or any FPS because I feel like even the griefers in CS and Valo actually tries to win. And if you really want to have fun, rocket league and Apex legends(without cheaters) are freaking awesome. But the most fun I've ever had in a multiplayer game was EU4. Sure it takes a few thousand hours until you're multiplayer ready but them 40 players lobbies are just incredible. The massive continental and world wars, coalitions, backstabbing and the memes are incredible. It felt like you were playing a competitive game like dota2/League and a for fun game like lethal company or among us at the same time.
Pretty similar to my experience as well. Now I'm old with a kid and real responsibilities .It's not worth it to waste my limited hours I have for gaming dealing with toxic children, despite the fact that I probably had more fun playing dota from 2004-2014 than any other game.
Stopped years ago because of toxic community. It's not worth the time or consternation.
I find myself enjoying HotS so much more than other mobas simply because no one tells me I'm a horrible player for my mistakes. And if they do they're not as unhinged as some people in LoL
Actually the opposite for me, maybe now with a smaller community in hots there's less toxicity but when I was playing hots like 3 years ago I've had so many games where ppl are flaming the hell out of each other (maybe because it's way more team dependent than league)
Hots community is very nice plus Hots is also very short so the pain of a bad teammatte half or 1/4 times the length of other mobas.
thats the tricky part. HotS is a team effort and you can feel powerless. Meanwhile in Dota or League you do have power to do things by yourself, but any team effort against you can ruin you... and it does not matter if that team effort is in enemy team... or your own.
@@fartloudYT in HotS I know to just do my part. I main tanks and all I have to do is provide the team with information, protection, engage and soaking here and there. I don't have to carry it all on my own unless I'm in lower ranks. If I lose, it's because the MMR difference is too big between the teams (or I got an afk / disconnected player).
But in lower ranks I can confidently carry the game on my own anyway, the team is a non-factor. I don't know anyone from diamond and above who climbed from silver with less than 70% winrate. I wonder where that notion of "it's harder to carry" even came from when I can play carry tanks or carry bruisers and win easily.
Wait your chat isn't muted? Lol
Competitive team games don't work for me. I started competing in Melee 2006, and I liked that it was all down to my personal skills. I just can't take team games seriously as a player.
There is an interview from 2019 just before TI9 where N0tail was asked to give a message to fans and DOTA players, his words resonate with me to this day whenever I feel bad and stressed.
He said: "Just remember why you sat down to play for the first time and why you keep sitting down to play. I mean maybe you forget along the way, I have forgotten along the way but it's a game that I truly love and I'm sure that I'm not the only one, there's so many players.
Just the good parts again, focus on the positivity, enjoy the games enjoy your teammates.
Don't queue for the next game if you're in a bad mood and you know it's going to be a bad game. Q if you're looking for the fun, if you're looking for something good, if you're looking for that nice game or nice experience and that DOESN'T MEAN WINNING, some of the best games are still spent losing and yeah some people get caught up in that as well.
Play for fun, have fun, enjoy it."
He's right, but also, of course, n0tail is also not playing right now. He could lpay right now and remember why he sat down to play for the first time. But there's an end for everyone and that's natural. Or maybe, an extended break
I didn't play solo queue for the reasons you mentioned in your video. Playing Dota 5 vs 5 party queue was really fun, especially after learning everyone's strength /habits of your regular teammates, you learned to adapt / work with them. I stopped playing Dota 2 over 5 years ago and watched your stream occassionally for WC3, but when you picked up Dota, it was very fun to watch you start in herald and make it all the way to immortal.
Could not agree more. I've basically stopped playing Dota for the last 3 years. Most summer breaks, I give it another attempt to try and recapture the joy of playing the game in the early days.
Every time I'm quickly reminded of the same qualities in other people that you're speaking of - and I can't stand it.
I'm very competitive and want to win, but I also really enjoy experimenting with off-meta heroes and trying to discover unconventional strategies. I'm always amazed with how closed-minded the players around me are. Often if we're losing, I'm blamed for "griefing" because I didn't pick one of the same 5 support heroes that I'd see every game.
Even crazier, when I try playing unranked instead, the people there have the same attitude, like the match they're playing is one of the most important moments of their life and ALL of the 9 other players are actively working to sabotage it. It sucks the life out of a game that should be amazing.
Thank you for speaking about this issue - I hope future competitive team games will take these lessons and foster better communities.
I also quit about 3 years ago. While the game itself is amazing, I don't really miss it. I play single player games now mostly, and tbh Dota 2 is one of the most dangerous drugs/addictions to ever exist. It's bad for you in the long term, don't waste your life on it.
If you are playing ranked games that means you wanna grind and this indicates that you should pick heroes that would give you the highest win prob, no wonder others are calling you a griefer. If you play only for fun just play unranked to "test" new heroes and strategies. I don't see any advantage in playing the new hero in a ranked match. It's basically intentionally lowering your skill by 500-1000 MMR and your team will pay the price.
I also wanna win, but I don't get mad if somebody is just learning the game and is not good because of it.
What passes me off is people that do know how to play and doing dumb stuff that could throw the game like instead of hitting the throne, running into the fountain to bm then dying.
@@blahblahgdp you know you just said two oposite things, in one hand you dont mind people that just learing the game but on the other you hate people who does random shit...you mean new players? XD
Thank you so much man i have been watching you a couple years back i learrned alot from you on how to play orc and knowing you tried dota 2 which also my game made me more happier to see you play and experience a game where mutiple unit controlled is a feature. I'm sad to see you leave although you had your reason which is toxicity in community. Thank you for everything.
Voyboy staircase video vibe all over again. That's the reason I stopped playing league actively and now play other games. It's exhausting.
don't compare soyboy with grubby pleaseeeee
@@confleyz5315 dw bby , he's not comparing, just saying that the video has the vibe (ig you've watched it)
There is a lot of wisdom in your reflection in and out of Dota. It's no wonder how far you got in your MMR journey. It takes genuine care to post this message and is an important one to share. I stand with this message!
I love Dota. Best game I've ever played. But I always set a strict rule for myself: As soon as I lose a game, I log off. I find that it's very easy to ignore flame/toxicity on my first match of the day, or if I'm already on a win-streak. But if I just came out of a losing game, I'm a bit tilted, and my team starts flaming at 10 minutes, I'm much more likely to give up myself or even be toxic. This has been very helpful and has actually helped me gain MMR much faster since I only play when I'm in a strong mental state.
what is your mmr?
Thats a great method
@@agapon2023divine. Been playing for 1 year
Just mute toxic and move on, and don't think about it too much (there is even an ioption for this in the options-menu!). You don't even absolutely NEED to communicate to get to Immortal (one guy proved this right in the past) so you could even pre-mute everyone! Pings and chat wheel are quite adequate to communicate with your team. In fact I think it might be a good idea to remove the communication (chat and voice) in Dota 2 from pubs, or at least from strict solo queue!
What I hate about it is people having "Dota is life" as their mantra to the point they make new accounts to pick on literal newbies in the game. It's way too toxic now. I do miss it and I still do play it at times but I always just get reminded of why I stopped in the first place. What you said is a very good illustration of the Dota 2 community at the moment.
Fair enough! I have enjoyed watching your DOTA journey, but I also look forward to you exploring other games in the future!
I'm a Brazilian gamer and I have 9k hours on Dota 2, I got to Immortal rank 2000 mostly playing (believe it or not) off meta... I liked to pick Silencer mid, Windranger offlane, Visage offlane and weird stuff like that, but I had results, otherwise I wouldn't have reached this rank... But when I reached Immortal rank it was simply impossible to have a good game, people on my team reported me before the game started just because of my pick and they refused to play correctly because they thought I was trolling the game, and this was happening almost EVERY game... It came to a point that I couldn't find games anymore because I was reported by most Immortals, I needed to queue for like 30 min to find a game... I had to unnistal the game and move on... It really is an amazing game but the community is too imature and toxic, I rather have a good time playing something else... such a shame.
I had way less succes but got my fair share of hate for picking weird stuffs and having surprising inventories, but I like having fun trying things I never see, I still won over half of my 8k games and i am at peace with this humble achievement! :)
But in sea server everything works as long as you win.
Do I believe you got rank 2000 with off meta picks on a server with 2500 active players and rank 1 playing on a EU guardian level? Yes, I do actually
Cheers to you Grubby! I respect you a lot man. Ever since I started watching you, I've always found you as a great positive person who just loved the game and learned it really damn fast. I have seen your streams where people, both in game and in chat were really toxic to you but you still handled them pretty well. I can understand it can get mentally draining to deal with these kinds of people on a daily basis.
I used to grind the game as well until I faced the same fate as you and ranked up and found many toxic players who just said the most gruesome shit to me even when sometimes it wasn't my fault. There was no fun playing anymore and it just ruined my mental health, and I can only imagine how much worse it could have been for you as you even had to deal with a toxic chat constantly backseating you.
The positive side of Dota will always remember you as a Legend Grubby and I hope you know that we will always support you !
Ngl, I just heard that you're taking a sabbatical so I googled why...and I'm 100% with you. You are SUCH a sweetheart and it was a pleasure to watch you, but I genuinely had to stop watching earlier on (around when you were 2k early in your journey) because of your chat. I heard you made it sub only (maybe? or follower?) at some point but it felt so egregious for the numbers of people who felt entitled to tell you what to do/how to play and shit on you BECAUSE you're SO GOOD, even in low mmr it was obvious that you're a pro mechanically. Even without knowing your background when I started watching, you could tell. Respect for your decision, and wishing you all the best. And, I hope our communities continue to change for the better with voices like yours bringing light to this particular topic of the awful toxicity surrounding our wonderful game.
I quit dota 2 a year ago and started to explore and play singleplayer games. Best choice so far. I still watch the esports scene and some streamers tho.
this, I quit league, now I have enjoyed and played so many great single player games. Still watch worlds every year.
I felt so identified with this video. I watched again today since yesterday I uninstalled Dota. The community it's sometimes exhausting. Love your videos
I love this videos lol, feels like hearing a friend chit chatting about life
Thank you Grubby. I played WC3 since its inception. You were one of my biggest inspirations since WCG 04. I used to download your replays from the WCG site. But after a few years, Dota became huge and I got hooked on it. Years down the road when you started streaming, I wished you played Dota 2. I even commented on one of your old replays on TH-cam from WCG that if Grubby played Dota 2 he would be a grandmaster. I was so happy when that day finally came, But I am even more Happy (Not your Archnemesis in WC3) after listening to you today.
I realized long ago that I was stuck in a loop in Dota 2. Today, after listening to you I finally accepted it. Thank you Grubby for giving me a beautifully articulated reminder to stop wasting time on a neverending game and play hundreds of amazing games that are coming out now. I think I am finally ready to sell all my items and remove Dota 2 from my account for good.
Albert Einstein said it the best - "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." There are a lot of data players who feel the same way that you do, who are just stuck in a loop. I sincerely hope that this video goes viral in the Dota 2 Community and helps everyone Break free from the loop, the addiction, and the vicious trap of Dota 2.
I can perfectly relate. In Dota there's such a wonderful depth; details and big picture both engage and matter. It just tickles everything I want from a competitive teamgame.
And then there's the playerbase.
Some of my best matches were, and probably still will be, losses. I wish more people could also take it that way, to enjoy the process and not fixate on the results. But it is easy to lose it even if one has it in the beginning.
I enjoyed watching your journey with dota, you were a breath of outdoors air in this scene. Will probably continue watching your streams! I just want you to know that there indeed are other people who would (or atleast try to) just love to enjoy the pure learning and trying and experimenting without the layer of toxicity. Maybe some day the scene is mature enough to do it. All the best to you!
I had the same journey. I switched from WC3 to Dota 2 a while back, played a few years, then stopped and reverted back to WC3. Like you I don't miss it and find it hard to watch tbh.
I love your streams but tbh, when you were playing Dota, I would not watch. Now that you play more WC3, I'm super happy :D
NB: The highest point in my WC3 life was when we played together 4v4 during COVID lock down. Much love!
i played the game hardcore for many many years, and then took a much needed almost 5 year-long break in 2018 when i realized i had stopped enjoying it. when i made the decision to come back, i felt like i was better able to enjoy it after experiencing other gaming communities in the time i was away
i'm an immortal bracket player so i know first hand how rough this community can be, and while i'm sorry to see you go (been following since before you started dota, and will of course continue after you stop playing), i totally empathize and support the decision. it does feel like this game has permanently rewired some people's brains. they're unable to interact normally with others on a basic level when they're playing the game, and it was really disappointing (though not surprising) to see how little this had changed while i was away. i always, always recommend people take breaks from dota 2 in particular because of how much it (and other mobas) can snare you in this cycle of frustration and desire to improve. if it's not fun, switching to something else is always a good option. happy to see what you play next
Very sad of course. But thanks for all the great content, it was really fun watching you explore and play one of my favorite games.
I've never played or heard of a MOBA that isn't viciously toxic (especially as you rank up). There's too much at stake for players (rating) and the game archetype encourages min-maxing metagaming since there are 5 potential points of failure or weakness to ruin what is at stake. Fundamental game design flaw with the genre, IMO 🤷♂
Humans want to win when there is something at stake, and when you do something that is counter to that wish, they get angry at you.
Its just how MOBA's work. I think grubby just doesn't like dota2 enough that he is willing to put up with it.
You have to like dota2 to a special degree to put up with this shit.
@MechShark well regardless of what is at stake there is a never a point where it is okay to air out your frustrations on other people. It's fun sometimes yes but does not make it okay. If you are really actually trying to win you would guide the person who is performing bad. Give them pointers and tell them where to be or reassure them that it's okay just play safe and don't die. But no one is interested in that kind of growth, they just want to use dota 2 VC or Chat as a therapeutic tool to shit on someone. The people that do that are the ones stuck on the same rank forever. BSJ has proven that with a better attitude you do gain MMR he used to be insufferable
i guess you could say that for most competitive team games that have updates...
@@mugnuz I don't disagree.
@@MechShark was trying to write more thoughts about matchmaking, data analytics and some other (gaming society things)... but somewhat many things are just reemerging patterns...:D
Exactly the reason I stopped playing Heroes of the Storm. It was such a great game once. Back in 2015 to, let’s say, 2019, the community was great, it was a delight to play. So many great memories. Nowadays, only people flaming and griefing. One moment someone on your team deems you did a mistake is enough for them to screw the game for the whole team. And just like you I recognized: I don’t have to do this. I don’t have to play this. There are so many awesome games out there, let’s invest my time in these.
Honestly Grubby I peaced out during your DotA 2 phase. It's just not the game for me. But I'm so excited to see you going back to WC3 and variety streams. I love the Dune content and can't wait to see more! Would love to see you try Age 4 again, now that it's in a much better place, or just whatever you're passionate about! I guess what I'm saying is, I like this move, and I'm excited to see where you go from here.
Cheers Tim
@@GrubbyTalksPlease try Age of Mythology: Retold !
Grubby, I have been following you since the early Warcraft days and I played tons of dota (too much), and I couldnt have said it better.
you have my deepest respect, that you climbed all the way up and you share my opinion about this game.
When Grubby said "love the details of complex games", I immediately thought about PoE and PoE 2. The complexity of PoE is sth that i miss in other games. I have yet to find another single player game that has as much depth and theorycrafting as PoE has.
I'm gonna play it probably!
Please do! You’ll love it
@@GrubbyTalksabsolutely! I have thousands hours in dota, Warcraft 3 and starcraft 2, and PoE is my main game now.
@@GrubbyTalksNew league starts in a couple weeks! Be there!
@@GrubbyTalks pog lets goooooooo just in time for the new POE league!
I played today for 7 years straight and stopped for 2 years. I never knew you before you started dota, but watching you discover the game for the first time re-ignited my love for the game and I couldn't help but play again for the past year or so. I uninstalled the game yesterday, maybe because you weren't there to inspire me during your break - lol.
I'm actually super happy you're moving on. Like you said, this is maybe one of the greatest games ever, but can have a very negative effect on mental well-being.
Glad it introduced me to your channel and I'll keep looking to you for new and interesting games that won't devour my soul.
Nothing will beat the classic dota
Thanks for playing Dota 2 Grubby! I'm honoured that I had the chance to play with you. I think that match was around Ancient bracket and you were playing Ursa pos1. We lost the game but it was fun that we tried our best. Good luck Grubby!
This means you'll play League again? :D
Thank you for sharing your very well-articulated reasoning for stepping away. I discovered you on the Twitch Dota 2 game page and always enjoyed watching your streams. Your positive attitude and growth mindset is inspiring and contagious. I hope to tune in to another Dota stream of yours sometime again, but wish you the very best no matter what the future brings!
3000 matches in 1.5 years is way too much.
Yeah I haven't reached that many games and I've been playing for 5+ years
3000 matches and your still archon haha😂😂😂 thats way too much
I had the same realization plus i became a part time vengeful spirit... playing with positive friends with a similar mindset might be the fix but i enjoyed your journey and you playing different games. so just do whats best for you!
As a dedicated fan of Grubby's Dota 2 streams, there's something I want to bring up. Sometimes, Grubby picks heroes he's not familiar with in ranked matches, even when viewers suggest trying unranked mode. Then, when he struggles with these heroes, he insists it's a game and he has a right to play any hero he chooses and says any possible reports are illegitimate.
But here's the thing: many of us don't have the luxury of playing tons of games every day. We try hard to climb ranks in the limited time we get. So, when a teammate picks a hero they don't know and messes up the only match I get to play for the day, it's frustrating. I think it's fair to report them for ruining the experience.
Personally, if I want to try out a new hero, I stick to unranked matches. Despite this issue, I'm still a loyal fan. Whenever Grubby plays Dota, his stream is my top priority.
it is valves fault, they are the ones who are toxic
I think you're missing the point. If you're constantly learning from your mistakes and getting better, losing a game here and there due to a bad teammate isn't going to materially impact your MMR in the long run. People get so focused on individual games instead of the larger journey of keeping an open mind and improving. Also, I've noticed DOTA players often pile onto the person who's doing bad, cementing the loss instead of thinking how they can still win the game or keeping a positive environment.
I don't really agree with the way he's handling the problem, that's his decision; however, the problem does definitely exist. It's crazy to be me that in certain ranks you're "griefing" if you pick an off meta hero until someone in professional picks that same hero and proves it's viable. The community is super close minded and toxic. The above is a justification of that behavior instead of acknowledging it.
Lastly, playing unranked can be a poor way to practice heroes. Sometimes people are playing unranked due to large skill disparities in their party rank. This can lead to an immortal vs archon lane, which isn't a viable way to practice.
@@wtryo it is valves fault, they are the ones who are toxic
@@wtryo so playing unranked can be a poor way to practice heroes so you rather pick it on ranked and ruin the game for me but I should not flame you because one loss here and there will not affect my MMR in the long run? Having an off game is one thing but picking a hero you do not know how to play on ranked is a grief and you deserve a report for it. That is my humble opinion.
@@Prokophh It's rarely one person's fault that a game is lost. Dota players have a tendency to pile on to whoever is perceived to be playing bad. I suspect it's a defense mechanism to prevent any examination of their own play.
The reality is you always have the ability to play better. Change your focus and you'll tilt your teammates less while becoming a better player yourself.
If I can smurf and win nearly 100% of my games, maybe that person trying a new hero never was the big problem? If yatoro played in my games, he'd have near 100% WR. So, why focus on the guy playing a new hero or the person simply having a bad game instead of improving yourself?
gotta say, love to see someone making a video about this, because its really true!
however, i would say, that its not actually on part of the players who are stuck in that mentality . . .
its equally as much about the mechanics of a game pushing for its outcome . . .
im gonna give a real example of my own experience . . .
i used to play call of duty warzone 2.0
and i loved it, it was the coolest gaming experience i had ever had since my break from pc gaming for 5 plus years. . .
you could drive cars, you could perform parkour like escapes from enemy squads, jump through windows, fly helicopters and EVEN take part in meta missions within the battlefield: stuff like; hack cell phones, computers, relocate cars of importance and drive them to a certain location, hunt targeted players, blow up safes for weaponry and cash. . .
IT WAS AWESOME!
THEN
came warzone 3.0 update
what players now were stuck with, were all the old maps from warzone 2.0 GONE.
2 new maps: a small map called "prison island", that was the only map you could play ranked on
and a medium sized map, with some name i cant remember, that looked like a bad version of the old maps from WZ2.0
WHAT IS MY POINT HERE?
well, to my experience, the player base declined after warzone 2.0 and so did the joy of playing the game
not only was the map called "prison island" but basically all missions, all vehicles, all the depth of game play value, to a modern, complex variety had been swiped. . .
the missions were now reduced to only 3 missions: target kill, shoot down drones and hack roof sattelite computers.
the 3 lamest missions of the game.
roof satelites were very difficult to achieve on your own. target killing was not much of a meta apart from on going battle and the new mission "shoot down drones" . . . was just shooting at 10 flying drones that deployed where you started the mission.
they could as well have removed the mission system enteirely. . . . same for vehicles. . .
there was absolutely no point, what so ever, to drive vehicles on prison island. . . unless you wanted to alert everyone on where you were and become a live target . . . (unless youre a puckling puckler ofc)
but so. . .
game mechanics and ragers: go hand in hand
the game developers need to make sure they dont listen to the wrong influences when developing a game.
the wrong influences basically struck ALL THE JOY out of warzone 3.0
in a better world warzone 3.0 would have had a new system with meta missions, making them more valuable for team based gaming, if not: an essential part, for earning squad upgrades, weapons etc, important for end game of the match. . .
and made the game more complex.
they didnt do that however: and stuck were the players with a cod game that was more like counter strike than cod. . .
playing a map called "prison island"
and you wonder why players become resentful, angry, raging, hostile
the game just wasnt fun to play: and the rage etc, is just sloping decline until players finally accept, that the relationship theyve accuired for a game throughout the years, is dead and has become destructive: and thats the evolution of any destructive relationship: it takes time to identify what it has become and move on.
my point is: the game developers are THE MAIN, culprits, either knowingly or unknowingly, in creating a "toxic" player base
we can dwelve down further into the "rabbit hole" on why that is. . .
but its worth mentioning . . .
now lets have a silent moment in rememberance for warzone 2.0 and all its glorious moments.
Amun
try telling them
"MMR is just a NUMBER"
I feel the same! LOVE the game. I OKEY losing, as long as we all try our best. I always try my best, and stay positive in the game.
0:55 DOTA is not for having fun. Dont play ranked if you want to have "fun"
Then what’s the point of rank if your not having a good time. Rank should be serious but not belittling, know the difference.
@@iCrazy414 rank is for people that hate themselves and want to suffer
I started dota recently and even in casual matches people flame all game and call each other the most heinous things, it's not a ranked thing...
agree with u, used to like dota 2 but stopped playing 1-2 years ago. its very depressing when your teammates (or even someone on the other team) just starts throwing the game 10 minutes into the game just because you accidentally stole one of his kills (mind you, accidentally) or sometimes even just one creep. or some teammates give up very easily instead of trying till the end when there is still obviously a chance to come back, etc.
So basically he rage quit like the average daily redditors cause he got bullied online. so much for the PMA god everybody made him out to be
actual brain-dead comment,I can't even
Honestly i played the game and undestand it since it launches but yeah i agree i love watching someone going through the learning and enjoying it ,i know a lot of guys think theyre just better and not enjoy the game anymore but honestly watching you play is a real pleasure and probably helping for a lot of newcomers or guys being stuck and its just a pleasure youre kind and enjoyable person to watch i really hope youre still playin dota 2 sometimes. Cause communities need personnality with youre exposure like you whatever the bad and toxic people i think the more the game is hard the more toxic guy who thinks theyre better you got ,but theyre really good people too in here wo are kind to share and learn and give their knowledge. (sorrry im not a master in english) but i was really happy to saw you come into this game since me and my friends were fan of you since war3 even tho one my friends played you a couple of times in war3 and told me if we could play one game together in dota2 could be awesome telle me if ur in to make him happy :D. much love and respect grubby
He was one of the best french war3 players fan of you played the better ,was a dream to play you,he played toad and the top fr and some eu etc a lot of times, beat intox at 5 am in (friends lan) completely drunk with me ,invented the tower rush so hes now a daddy but still play really good in dota2 i really want him to play with you to surprise him :D really could be awesome.when i saw start playing dota 2 i told him ur playing dota2 he was so happy and was amazed by ur mentality he thinks thats why you're good and i thinks he deserve to play with one of his heroes one day hes a good dad never been bad or toxic and just still love play games hope you can play a game with him if ur interested playin with him hes immortal too playin meepo and still really good xD honestly i or we would love to welcome you to play some game with him could be amazing surprise really. + its his birthday soon and i dont know what to give him. so if u have time time for humanity and share passion im on it 10000 % :D (hope u read me)
Im smelling weakness
I related to that real hard, trying so hard to keep it in together and focusing on losing games is hard enough, trying to keep my team mentally stable is even harder. Like, that's not supposed to be my responsibility man, people queue for the wrong reasons.
When you said the music is *okay,* I died inside.
I picked up Dota a little over a month ago coming from a decade of League. Your content has been so informative and enlightening not only for the game but the psychological aspect of competitive games in general.
I always looked down on Dota being in the League club, but I can see myself agree with your statements about the game itself, most definitely a 10/10 game. Peaking 2250mmr so far I have not yet reached the bracket where you see this kind of toxicity but fingers crossed that my league experience has hardened me enough to push through. 😂
I think becoming a mid laner, where your own skills (that you have proven to be able to train consistently) matter the most, you can give an early advantage to your team, which always minimizes griefing, and boosts mood. Sometimes you can end the game by yourself.
Also, actually having a space to become better and reputated for it, you can join a pro team, and thats when you play the amazing satisfying dota you see in DPC.
Or just find yourself a team of 5 and group queue.
There are many ways to bypass toxic players, if you don't want to handle them.
I swear man getting teammates raging and not understanding people have bad games is insane. The teammates really ruin it. It's so rare to get a nice teammate.
I started to watch you A to Z series and thought about getting back into the game, but I probably shouldn't. I'm way more sensitive about things like this, so it would just be abad idea. Thanks for scaring me straight.
"That's what being a pro gamer is all about. It's learning to process losing." -Grubby
I literally watch you for your attitude and light heart amigo. Thank you for sharing your gentle wisdom.
Long ago I was doing QA testing for a friend's Steam game. They asked how they could make AI more fun. In my feedback I told him that the AI could every now and then flame the player. They put in that feature, lol.
Now I'm 36, that's why I mostly don't play ranked anymore at any game really. I was the UK number one when it was played all the way back on GameSpy. I think I was around 300 overall at red alert 2, I think I was the only soviet player in the top 400-500 as Yuri was so busted.
But the more I worked the more I dipped off. I couldn't get higher than platinum in smite. Or past 13k MMR in hearthstone battlegrounds.
It doesn't really bother me though. I know only playing 2 times a week is going to get results like that.
I mute all the randoms, and just duo queue games with brother. If the rest of the gamers are just NPCs nowadays I find it more fun that way.
Hey man, I've been following you since 15 odd years ago watching your WC3 contents. As I grew older, I switched to MOBA along with my friends, and was pleasantly surprised you picked Dota2 up. You'll always be an inspiration to audience in picking new games, analyzing with an individual framework, and just enjoying the journey. Cheers from Thailand!
Ive known who you were grubby since i saw you compete in SC2 wings of liberty. I was super happy you started bringing back WC3 hype so long ago, but I had always wondered why you never played dota since you were a hots guy and a WC3 guy. I even asked you once on your stream, if you would ever play dota and you replied something like Ive never played dota before or you never considered it. So I was super happy when, years later, you decided to finally pick it up and take that journey.
Dota 2 is easily one of the most complex games ever made, and also one of the most hyper competitive at almost every level of skill. So it doesnt shock me that the community tends to be as toxic as it is at times, dota 2 and Overwatch for me are the two most toxic communities in any game ive ever seen I think. regardless of that, Im glad you enjoyed the game itself and can appreciate it and had fun playing it, it truly is a masterpiece when it stands on its own, and like all games we enjoy at some point we probably have to put them down, even if its for a little while (or a long while). But its all about the journey in the end. so happy you gave it a chance and was able to enjoy it.
You see this was my experience as well. Ive been playing the game for a lot of time, but then I stopped in 2018.
So the other day I decided to play a game or two again, game is changed, and its like i never played it.
The second game I was immediately reminded why i stopped. I just don't want to deal with some toxic terminally online person. I turned it off and don't plan on coming back again.
Just mute toxic people right away, while also understanding that these people are just mainly venting out their frustration to someone, and it's usually nothing personal or even something you did wrong in the game. You don't even absolutely NEED to communicate to get to even Immortal (one guy proved this right in the past) so you could even pre-mute everyone (there is even an option for this in the options-menu!)! They can still see your chats btw. Pings and chat wheel are quite adequate to communicate with your team.
Can feel where you're coming from. Some people tend to forget that it's just a video game and it's normal to lose a lot. Recently I played the game for only 1 or two times a week and never get the feeling of missing the game throughout my downtime. Great having you while it lasted. Hope to see your future endeavors.
This is the most truthful video ever created on the internet. Long time hon/league/dota/dota 2 player since 2007. I feel the exact same way, dota 2 is the greatest mobs ever, but the people you play with make it not worth playing. Many don’t deserve to win, let alone play a ranked game mode.
These reasons are exactly why I quit Dota 2 after almost 4 years of playing it.
In about 7/10 ranked matches, there'd be at least 1 or 2 assholes on my team or toxic opponents. I always have to calm my teammates down and be friendly, but it rarely works.
The matches are also too long, waiting for hero picks, waiting for creeps, dying, and then more waiting... Winning felt great, but losing after investing an hour or more felt really frustrating, especially if you are playing with toxic players
it is valves fault, they are the ones who are toxic
Hey man, love your video and your take is 100% valid.
My one take away though is that this isn't a Dota issue but rather a competitive game issue.
Competitive games no matter what game title will have this type of mentality.
League,Valo,CS,Dota,fortnite, Apex
This was pretty similar to my experience with league of legends. There came a point a couple years ago where a teammate said something multiple times that was completely unwarranted and entirely unacceptable to me in chat. In that moment, I realized if someone said that to me during a pick up basketball game, I would just leave the court (nobody should be looking to actually fight).
For a long time I felt obligated to always push for a win, no matter who my teammates were or what they said but my soul was worth more. At one point, I was probably something of a ghost, and while I can hold my head high that on the whole I was not a proactive flamer, the experiences playing the game definitely took something from me.
So in that game, I just afk'd and left. There was a time that was unthinkable for me, but I have to say looking back it was a decision I would make again, and I would support teammates who did it in similar situations. There's a certain level of self-respect a person has to have in order to be healthy, a realization that there's only so much toxic and abusive behavior you can tolerate before your goals become self-defeating.
If I have to pre-mute everyone in order to enjoy a game, I feel like I'm relegating them to the status of a bot, which is not-respectful, or I've accepted an extremely high level of cynicism towards the game which bears a price against the spirit of life.
There are many games I no longer play where I look back and feel like I learned quite a lot about the nature of life and the universe. In a sense, I still play those games, I just live them through life. But with league I still feel this void, that there's something gone.
A lot of MOBA players remind me of gamblers who are chasing losses. That you double down and try to get back something you've lost, only to lose more of your soul in the process. Naturally the cycle will repeat until there's nothing left.
I think it takes a lot of maturity to realize losing is not necessarily something to be feared, and should be embraced as part of the circle of life. If you're afraid of failure or losing its very difficult to know when to quit, its very difficult to walk away from an even greater defeat.
I quit MOBA games for the exact reasons you mentioned. You can't be a casual player if you're playing a MOBA.
Your dota videos are amazing! Its unfortunate that a lot of people (including my friends) have to either play a lot or absolutely not at all. However as a streamer i understand it is different than what we people experience. Furthermore for a player like u who i would say has learning and ranking up as a major enjoyment in playing dota, i imagine it becomes less interesting once u get really good. In a way u have gone through what most of us are still going through (and hopefully enjoying).
I myself dont play Dota often but i wont deny any invite from a friend asking to play Dota, nor am i looking to get into other game that is as intense as dota. All i wish is when u find urself randomly playing a dota match on a wednesday night, maybe offstream, that u can share how its like playing from a perspective that a lot of us (and more of us should!!) have: a not regular, a not warmed up, a not having the highest possible personal rank, a not spectated and backseated, a not having to win and queue again, a casual Dota enjoyer :)
I've taken multiple breaks from Dota that last anywhere from a couple months to over a year. I absolutely feel your pain.
I had a game yesterday where I allowed a 2-11 pudge on my team to ruin my night. Whenever he was dead, which was a lot of the game, he was telling me what to do and flaming me if I didn't use an active effect on a weapon. You can certainly tell when someone is a miserable person by how they interact with others in the game.
I get you 100% Mr Grubs. This is how i feel the last 5 years. So I have been playing Dota on and off like a bad relationship. Would be nice to see you on the South-African server. Most of the time friendly people are there. Would suck to loose you as well. So many good people are being bullied out of the game. It is not fair. I wish Gaben could resolve this issue with the POWER of AI.
Really good reasoning and I have the same issues with Dota2 community. I recently started playing World of Warcraft WOTLK classic expansion, found a guild and when we are raiding together 10-25 people on discord, all working towards achieving the common goal, defeating the bosses, talking to each other, hearing the different accents and ethnicities. So good.
I think there is a content potential in WOW as well, try it :)
Also WOTLK expansion which is now live in Classic era WOW is about Arthas, Frostmourne so it is really close to W3 TFT :)
Yo Grubby ik snap je gevoel helemaal! Ik ben zelf op een dota break van inmiddels 2 maanden. Ik kijk nogsteeds content zoals jou kanaal en esl, maar zelf queuen heb ik al tijden niet meer gedaan. Ik heb 1 potje tegen je gespeeld toen ik net van een break kwam (daarvoor was ik legend 5) en in herald terecht kwam, jij was net begonnen. De impact die je toen al had in de game was duidelijk merkbaar en ookal had ik 30 kills op disruptor, tegen jou clinkz speelstijl was niks te beginnen. Geniet van je break en ik denk oprecht dat je potentie hebt om esl te spelen (mocht dit überhaupt iets zijn wat je ziet zitten). Welke keuze je ook maakt, ik wens je het aller beste en je bent een top gozâh zoals we in dh zeggen 😋
Hi Grubby, thank you very much for your honest opinion on this. It sounded much like playing street basketball with random people (both teams). You always get people that are chill and great teammates with a mix of critical jerks who only want to win and can't take losses. I guess in person these jerks still hold back a bit due to social norms and online gaming environments have allow them to become toxic trolls.
I play with a few real life friends over the years only vs Bots mainly due to our lack of skills and to avoid turning a fun get together into a who's fault we lost.
As a 6 yr fan from the Grubby channel enjoying your WC3 videos, just want to say thank you for the great game play and for your awesome personality.
I quit for good after too many teammates not playing seriously, like drow mid picks vs traditional mids. Played since 6.3x Dota 1 but the community has gotten so bad it's not worth it.
Jakiro mid , lion mid like people enjoy trolling so much.