Very interesting to see that you use the traditional training and pruning systems for winegrapes. I found that I cannot use these traditional systems because I have a garden with fruit trees and planted the 30 varieties between them. Because of the shadows of the trees and the house, I have to let the vines first grow up to a height of three meters before allowing runners to grow in different directions. Most French grapevines cannot grow in the conditions that I have, so I have to go for those varieties that can grow under these circumstances, or just be patient with just a little bit growth every year. Johaniter grew much faster than Riesling and Pinot Blanc. Johaniter is grown much in the Netherlands vineyards. I allow the grapevines to grow to the height of three meters and follow the training of a combination of head training and cordon training. My first priority is to let the grapevines grow taller and have much more volume of leaves, to establish a good root system. My pavement is now pushed upwards because of the thick roots growing just under the pavement. Because I don't have grass, but I have trees and shrubs, rootsystems of both grapevines, shrubs and trees are substantial. I water and use chicken manure in liberal quantities. Aurora grapevine grows well in these circumstances and I got my first yield of grapes and got 3 liters of grapejuice. I train every grapevine to have both heads (at the end of a cordon) and cordons. Every thick cordon is allowed to produce a subsequent new cordon. The cordons I use for growing leaves while I take away the leaves from the heads so that the fruit get as much sunlight possible. Second year cordons produce fruits and a new head. Third year cordon with head produces one new cordon and so on. In contrast to vineyards where mature grapevines are not allowed to grow too big, I allow my grapevines to continue growing bigger like with grapevines in the wild that grow in trees. In the fall, I prune back every grapevine. I harvested my fruits much earlier than in traditional vineyards. In september I had harvested all my fruits, because the sun ripened the fruits as hardly no leaves block the sun like happens with the three traditional ways of training grapevines. I am in a damp, cold climate but I harvest sweet grapes early. It sounds impossible. The trick is to allow the new cordons to grow in my fruit trees unimpeded after all the fruits of grapevines and fruit trees have been taken of the trees. Early ripening and allowing the grapevines to grow unimpeded in the fall. This year I harvested from two white grapevines and one big seedless grapevine a total of 30 kilo's of sweet grapes. I made preservatives of a combination of apples, plums, seedless grapes and berries. In traditional vineyards, they only grow grapes. I grow grapes, fruit trees and berry bushes. I don't believe in mono culture for a variety of reasons. My problem is that birds eat some of my grapes and other fruits, but mostly those that are high up in the tree where I have difficulty to harvest. The birds feel safe from the cats that walk in my garden by sitting high up in the trees. I often have late frost. This year I had no harvest of cherries, apricots and some early plumvarieties because of the late frost. But many fruits above the three meter height succeeded. I had a good apple and pear harvest before the trees were covered in first year cordons. I pruned those cordons back, in late Oktober for next years harvest. I intend to double or tripple the harvest of my vines every year. In 2022 I had 10 kilo's of grapes, in 2023 I had a total of 30 kilo's of grapes, not counting the grapes that were eaten by birds. I hope to have 100 kilo's of grapes in 2024 as some grape varieties may produce fruits now. The birds help me with insect pests, ants and caterpillars. I don't spray my garden with chemicals. I let nature do its work. My garden is tightly planted. I also have clematis vines, passion flowers, bulbs and exotics like Mulberry, Pawpaw, Kaki, Kiwi and Figs. These exotics start producing fruits sparingly. The garden is just 140 square meters large, has strips of borders but is mostly paved under the canopy of trees and grapevines. 120 kilo of fruit in total.
"Fruiting come from the second year wood" Please explain this. The way I have observed it fruit is produce on new growth. The new growth may be coming out of 2nd year wood the way it was stated may be confusing.
Hi Bill, thank you for your question. Yes, it can be a bit confusing as grapevines are unusual types of plants. The process takes two years. The buds you are observing that are producing flowers are actually two years old. They started forming the year before. This is a critical point because the weather in the previous year along with the weather from the current year impact the vines ability to produce flowers and fruit. I explain this in great detail in my video "From Flowering to Fruitset". I encourage you to view it as it is a critically important video for any grower, but few have actually watched it.
Im in NZ and have deep purple table grape vines. Pretty sure I get fruit on the 1st years new canes that grow. However Ive never really found out whether cane or spur pruning is best. Ive tried both but can't tell which is best. One thing is the vines are very vigorous and whilst I tried to keep on top of lateral growth and overall height the vines got away on me again this summer. Whilst three years ago I rejuvenated by initially hard pruning and re-establishing new cordons Im not getting much fruit. I suspect my cordons are a little long but it could be I need some super??? Certainly don't need any nitrogen as the vines are always lush, green and as I said very vigorous. I even tried two rows of fruiting cordons to try and get more growth into fruiting wood rather than extreme lateral and height growth but that didn't help. Any advice? Thanks
Great video--thanks. Can you comment on 2- vs 3-wire trellises in northern Nevada for the cordon system? I am stubbornly thinking of pinot noir in particular.
Hi Bill, I am not sure what you are referring to. There is usually one wire for the cordon and then above that you will have wires for supporting your shoots. With the VSP (vertical shoot positioning) system that is usually 2 levels of wires above that cordon wire.
Interesting video, thank you. I'm just curious as to how the head-trained or goblet system works when there are gusts of high wind on a daily/weekly basis.
Good question! I don't have enough experience with it to answer that question, but of the head trained vines that I have observed they seem to have a very thick trunk and look very sturdy. Of course these are older vines. Younger vines might be a different story, however if they are properly tied to a stake, I suspect there will not be many problems.
hi Grant. first, thanks for sharing your knowledge! i am in western Montana (zone 5b) and just started a 50 vine backyard vineyard. at 5 weeks after planting, most are growing multiple shoots. my question is whether i should prune down to just one or two main shoots ( trunks)? or in the first year should i let them grow as they will? thanks!
Hi Paul, I would not trim shoots in the first year. This will increase photosynthetic area and produce a bigger trunk and root system. This will get your vines kickstarted for next year when you can trim to the strongest shoot up your stake. Hope that helps. Grant
I am sorry, but I don't think I can answer that question properly as I don't have any tropical experience. But I think you would want a system that keeps your canopy open as much as possible to keep it airy to reduce the potential of mildew. I think a cordon system with a vertical shoot positioning system would be much better than a head-trained system. Good luck!
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Thank you! I just picked up my first grape vine. I am super excited to get started! I am located in Canada.
Good luck!
Great video, Grant, and very good information, thank you.
I am glad you found it useful!
Very interesting to see that you use the traditional training and pruning systems for winegrapes. I found that I cannot use these traditional systems because I have a garden with fruit trees and planted the 30 varieties between them. Because of the shadows of the trees and the house, I have to let the vines first grow up to a height of three meters before allowing runners to grow in different directions. Most French grapevines cannot grow in the conditions that I have, so I have to go for those varieties that can grow under these circumstances, or just be patient with just a little bit growth every year. Johaniter grew much faster than Riesling and Pinot Blanc. Johaniter is grown much in the Netherlands vineyards. I allow the grapevines to grow to the height of three meters and follow the training of a combination of head training and cordon training. My first priority is to let the grapevines grow taller and have much more volume of leaves, to establish a good root system. My pavement is now pushed upwards because of the thick roots growing just under the pavement. Because I don't have grass, but I have trees and shrubs, rootsystems of both grapevines, shrubs and trees are substantial. I water and use chicken manure in liberal quantities. Aurora grapevine grows well in these circumstances and I got my first yield of grapes and got 3 liters of grapejuice. I train every grapevine to have both heads (at the end of a cordon) and cordons. Every thick cordon is allowed to produce a subsequent new cordon. The cordons I use for growing leaves while I take away the leaves from the heads so that the fruit get as much sunlight possible. Second year cordons produce fruits and a new head. Third year cordon with head produces one new cordon and so on. In contrast to vineyards where mature grapevines are not allowed to grow too big, I allow my grapevines to continue growing bigger like with grapevines in the wild that grow in trees. In the fall, I prune back every grapevine. I harvested my fruits much earlier than in traditional vineyards. In september I had harvested all my fruits, because the sun ripened the fruits as hardly no leaves block the sun like happens with the three traditional ways of training grapevines. I am in a damp, cold climate but I harvest sweet grapes early. It sounds impossible. The trick is to allow the new cordons to grow in my fruit trees unimpeded after all the fruits of grapevines and fruit trees have been taken of the trees. Early ripening and allowing the grapevines to grow unimpeded in the fall. This year I harvested from two white grapevines and one big seedless grapevine a total of 30 kilo's of sweet grapes. I made preservatives of a combination of apples, plums, seedless grapes and berries. In traditional vineyards, they only grow grapes. I grow grapes, fruit trees and berry bushes. I don't believe in mono culture for a variety of reasons. My problem is that birds eat some of my grapes and other fruits, but mostly those that are high up in the tree where I have difficulty to harvest. The birds feel safe from the cats that walk in my garden by sitting high up in the trees. I often have late frost. This year I had no harvest of cherries, apricots and some early plumvarieties because of the late frost. But many fruits above the three meter height succeeded. I had a good apple and pear harvest before the trees were covered in first year cordons. I pruned those cordons back, in late Oktober for next years harvest. I intend to double or tripple the harvest of my vines every year. In 2022 I had 10 kilo's of grapes, in 2023 I had a total of 30 kilo's of grapes, not counting the grapes that were eaten by birds. I hope to have 100 kilo's of grapes in 2024 as some grape varieties may produce fruits now. The birds help me with insect pests, ants and caterpillars. I don't spray my garden with chemicals. I let nature do its work. My garden is tightly planted. I also have clematis vines, passion flowers, bulbs and exotics like Mulberry, Pawpaw, Kaki, Kiwi and Figs. These exotics start producing fruits sparingly. The garden is just 140 square meters large, has strips of borders but is mostly paved under the canopy of trees and grapevines. 120 kilo of fruit in total.
Thank you for your insights and experience!
Awesome video! Liked and new sub! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge
Thank you so much and welcome!
"Fruiting come from the second year wood" Please explain this. The way I have observed it fruit is produce on new growth. The new growth may be coming out of 2nd year wood the way it was stated may be confusing.
Hi Bill, thank you for your question. Yes, it can be a bit confusing as grapevines are unusual types of plants. The process takes two years. The buds you are observing that are producing flowers are actually two years old. They started forming the year before. This is a critical point because the weather in the previous year along with the weather from the current year impact the vines ability to produce flowers and fruit. I explain this in great detail in my video "From Flowering to Fruitset". I encourage you to view it as it is a critically important video for any grower, but few have actually watched it.
Thank you
You're welcome!
Im in NZ and have deep purple table grape vines. Pretty sure I get fruit on the 1st years new canes that grow. However Ive never really found out whether cane or spur pruning is best. Ive tried both but can't tell which is best. One thing is the vines are very vigorous and whilst I tried to keep on top of lateral growth and overall height the vines got away on me again this summer. Whilst three years ago I rejuvenated by initially hard pruning and re-establishing new cordons Im not getting much fruit. I suspect my cordons are a little long but it could be I need some super??? Certainly don't need any nitrogen as the vines are always lush, green and as I said very vigorous. I even tried two rows of fruiting cordons to try and get more growth into fruiting wood rather than extreme lateral and height growth but that didn't help. Any advice? Thanks
This was answered in another message.
Great video--thanks. Can you comment on 2- vs 3-wire trellises in northern Nevada for the cordon system? I am stubbornly thinking of pinot noir in particular.
Hi Bill, I am not sure what you are referring to. There is usually one wire for the cordon and then above that you will have wires for supporting your shoots. With the VSP (vertical shoot positioning) system that is usually 2 levels of wires above that cordon wire.
Interesting video, thank you. I'm just curious as to how the head-trained or goblet system works when there are gusts of high wind on a daily/weekly basis.
Good question! I don't have enough experience with it to answer that question, but of the head trained vines that I have observed they seem to have a very thick trunk and look very sturdy. Of course these are older vines. Younger vines might be a different story, however if they are properly tied to a stake, I suspect there will not be many problems.
hi Grant. first, thanks for sharing your knowledge! i am in western Montana (zone 5b) and just started a 50 vine backyard vineyard. at 5 weeks after planting, most are growing multiple shoots. my question is whether i should prune down to just one or two main shoots ( trunks)? or in the first year should i let them grow as they will? thanks!
Hi Paul, I would not trim shoots in the first year. This will increase photosynthetic area and produce a bigger trunk and root system. This will get your vines kickstarted for next year when you can trim to the strongest shoot up your stake. Hope that helps. Grant
@@grantcramer thanks for your suggestion. next year i will select down to a single trunk for my nortern vines.
What system suits for tropical climate, where rain in almost every month
I am sorry, but I don't think I can answer that question properly as I don't have any tropical experience. But I think you would want a system that keeps your canopy open as much as possible to keep it airy to reduce the potential of mildew. I think a cordon system with a vertical shoot positioning system would be much better than a head-trained system. Good luck!
@@grantcramer thank you so much for your advice
👍
Your welcome.