Guys this channel is so good. It addressed the real world realities of so much knowledge in tuning cars. You are right, the wing WILL NOT do much at low speeds. I know it looks like it right now but its just not physically possible. The down force is just not there. Put your hand out the window, cup some air at low speeds. Feel the difference in force. There is is a reason that aircraft drop out of the sky under 55 knots. Its not because wings still work at low speed. I think the alignment may have more to do with this... but again ... I wouldn't have said the alignment would have that much to do with it but hey... I love it when I am wrong because it means I just learnt something new. Good Job guys.
+gus bisbal Hey Gus, the alignment was definitely off which was a main cause of the understeer but we're still puzzled how the handling changes with and without the wing even at slower speeds.
have you considered that while the rear wing is obviously producing a tone of down force, it may not be the element that is lifting the front. There is a possibility that the front lip is not working correctly and its producing lift for some strange reason. If for some reason its causing air to accelerate over the lip, faster than the air accelerates under the car, which is possible because you don't have a flat bottom, then there is the possibility of it lifting the front. Stranger things have happened in aerodynamics. Have you done a lap without the front lip but with the wing?
+gus bisbal We now have a full week of driving the car with the front splitter and wing on and it performed really well so the combo is working properly and providing adequate downforce.
+rzbomb rides Thanks for the love and kind words. We're hoping to grow quickly but as with anything on TH-cam these days, it's going to take some time.
+Speed Academy This is true, I wish the best of luck, y'all are truly genius' with cars, you've gained a few subscribers, ive told my friends and they love it! Once again, lots of love from Texas!(:
+Daniel Tojcic ikr!It's like they said.Everyone is going to tell you that a wing is only gonna make a difference at higher speeds,if it even works at all.And then off the wing goes andBAAAM!DORIFTOOO :P
Well,tbh I've seen them on GT500.But you assume it's only natural since those cars are monstrous.I never believed a wing would make that much of a difference in a 300hp street/track car!
+Orfeas Christodoulou The Swan neck wins reduce turbulence on the wing during cornering or something like that. Since it's not directly bolted to the bottom of the wing, air flows more smoothly esp during cornering since air coming from an angle is no longer hitting the mounts. Its the little details that make these designs great.
I too was surprised how much a rear wing changed my handling. It's going to be difficult to come up with a front aero package that makes as much downforce as that huge wing. Maybe try some doubled up large canards? Vent the fenders and the hood? i.e. viper ACR or GT3 RS?
you guys are lucky, i want to do something very similar to this to a gt86, but you guys need a bigger diffuser and probably carbon fibre fins in the front
Looks like they're too busy to read the comments. I hope that means they're busy making the next video. So the keyboard warriors yelling about high speeds and rear wings are wrong. Love the videos guys. I've never seen a more thorough rundown of a car's performance. Your videos are getting even better.
+joe smith Thank you! We've been out competing at the Ontario1500 so we haven't gotten around to reading all the comments. I'm just going through them now and I've got way toooooo many to reply to.
love the channel!... im a race driver in chile and i was thinking to buy a brz for track days and now thanks to you im decided to buy one jajaja lots of things lerned on this channel to use :D pd: sorry about my English jaja
Love your channel, bout to subscribe after I watch all 11 videos of your 86 track build as I am loving the series, as well as your build! Couple questions if you guys don't mind. What headers are you guys running? Any idea how loud car is in terms of decibels? Did you have any issues with local police? Thanks Speed Academy and looking forward to more videos of the FRS and other track builds.
You could always buy thicker sway bar for the rear, see if that helps. I think that would be cheaper than buying a new wing. Even adding a little air to the rear might help. Add camber to the rear, like go from a -.8 to a -.4 degrees. Not sure how much that would mess with temps though. Just trying to think of cheaper ways to fix so you dont' have to go buy a new wing. I admit, my initial reaction to the wing was that it was going to be too much. Anyways, I dont' have a ton of experience as you guys, but it's fun to think it through.
Yeah, if you add too much, but done right it would make the rear end rotate a little more. I'm not talking talking about adding a ton of camber, just .3-.6 degrees. They didn't say the understeer was really bad since the splitter helped, but just didn't help enough.
The header really makes this car loud. I ended up putting my stock muffler on for street driving the using a nameless track pipe for my autocross events.
Speed Academy maybe look into the Perrin 3" cat back? The end of the center pipe had a V band, you could make up a lighter muffler better flow for at the track and have it attach at the vband. Kina My plan for next year but we will see. Just an idea ;)
+MNachtigal We're thinking of taking the existing 3-inch piping and just doing a v-band like you mentioned to a stock exhaust but we dont want to have to swap it out. That will take too much effort. Instead we just want to keep it on. Depends on how much power we drop!
that's not a bad idea. I started making my own 3" cat back this summer with Vibrant ultra quiet mufflers and resonator. Sadly I have not finished it to see how it works.
1) I really think you guys need to get a proper alignment before doing anything else. - alignment makes a tremendous difference at least for the local s2000s we have that go to the track here regularly. 2) I'd try fiddling with the kws some more , have you guys tried calling kw to see what they think or can suggest? Great video :-D
Why not set the wing on a slicker setting and/or improve front downforce. While that splitter looks kinda neat, i think there are improvements to do there. Does it have a rake? Do you really need the rubbery cornersplitters? Are there any other DF modifications you can do to the front? Great project guys, I really enjoy the series.
+Speed Academy Could you guys not adjust the front splitter to give it a bit more angle, or add some washers or something to the mounts if it isn't adjustable? Like in the 350z wind tunnel video.
+Dylan94 The easiest way is to add rake which means raise the rear of the suspension up. However, we could also add more angle to the splitter if need be. We just don't need to do any of that yet since the alignment is what was the issue.
So ok I have a question. What pressure is the coolant actually operating at? Because at 220 deg. F, you need about 600 psia just to keep it liquid... Now those numbers are probably off because I wasn't sure exactly what coolant it is, so I just looked at my tables and the coolant I have on there is 134a, which might not be what you guys have...
If the alignment doesn't help I guess I would try Lower the existing mounts for the wing or fab up some new ones with more adjustment Put some big time attack style canards on the front or try lowering the front Get a new wing because this one seems very big Also you guys should have more views, love this show!
Element tuning modified their FRS to rev to 9000 rpm by adding an oil accumulator, changing the valves to +1mm, replace valve springs and changing the internals to forged internals. Is there a future video where you guys would do the same modification to your frs to be able to rev up to 9k rpm and there by making more horse power.
+aaguirre123 We are contemplating an engine build but the reliability of an engine revving to 9K usually isn't great. Especially with the amount of track time we do. Add to that the transmission not being designed to handle those RPMs and it sounds like a lot of R&D before you can get that setup to be reliable.
+Peter Tarach thanks for replying. I think your channel is the best in terms of teaching the public how to increase performance and how to race fast. There is nothing else like it. Don't be surprise if you subs go over 1 million in the near future. With regards to 9k rpm, element tuning tracks their car. They have a TH-cam channel, not as good as yours, that shows how the 9k rpm frs drives on the track. If you have time they have a website that details the work they have done to their frs. It would be great if you guys are able to do the same and may be even better than their frs car.
+Speed Academy Yea that's how my BMW rally build is as well. I have to thank you guys for the inspiration. since you guys did Targa Newfoundland I have started rebuilding the car for that. I hope its ready for next year! Keep up the good work guys!
This might be a stupid question, but Would UEL headers made a difference in terms of how loud your exhaust is? I have a friend who had a subaru 2.5i and when he went from his stock equal length headers to the UEL I found that it was much quieter. But it could be different from one car to the next.
+Erik McIlhenney We didn't move the gauge location, just accounted for the difference in temp. And I'll shoot a video on the ducting as soon as the car is back at the shop.
+willyjameshuff But the Fiesta ST has crazy handling and is less than 25k and cobb make it go really fast for cheap and it is guaranteed get you laid and also cure cancer by just sitting in the passenger seat. On a side note I have yet to drive one and I know that it probably does handle very well. But at this point it just feels like a constant sales pitch from a ford employee.
So if you have single adjustable dampers what would you do to fix understeer and oversteer since they change both rebound and compression at the same time.
As I have come to expect great video again. Really love the ASS2000/Badass2000. just amazing results, mad respects to you both. People talk about roadkill but that's more spectical than real car guy; learn to build and go FAAASSSTTT. For my money yours is the only one I get impatent for. OH and FYI folks you should check out the web site not something hacked together these guys have a background automotive jernalism . so the stories read well and tell the story. Please keep it coming need more; Is there a12 step programe? I think i may be developing a problem. Truely nothing but respect tinged with a little envy.
+roger depew Haha, thanks for all the kind word Roger! Much appreciated and glad you like our site. Lots of great content there that enough people don't take advantage of.
drop the wing and run a spoiler & wicker setup and add the diffuser if needed, or if you really want to use the wing u could put heavier springs in the rear and go much heavier to see if it helps the car rotate. its not really worth working on the dampers when you have such huge balance problems. you could also try to add some toe-out in the rear, add more front camber (street cars can rarely get enough so add a bunch) and mabey a bit more rake tho that will put the wing higher in the air so that might not work. or you could build a splitter that actualy creates downforce
+Erik Blixt I was going to add a comment for the SA guys with some obvious stuff to try but you covered it all Erik. Errr, except maybe lower the front spring rate and smaller front ARB.
Steve Ireland ops sorry didn't know they already tried everything you can do to a car :(... when u start fiddling with the dampers when ur car is aero pushin that bad ur lost. i just think the car would be much faster if u ran a spoiler and working underboody aero(splitter,floor and diffuser). but they alredy tried that as its too obvious.
Gasp, y'all answered! Legit. Lol. If you buy the kit separate do you need to buy anything extra? Because I read that buying the factory tune is less hassle after install. I realistically would like 250-275whp after install, nothing too major.
Damn that thing is loud. You said this one is quieter? I don't think so, hehe If you dialed out the angle of attack on the rear wing completely you could run higher pressures at the rear and a bit stiffer sway-bar and softer damping in the front. That might help. But I'm assuming you already tried that.
+Atrax R Nope, the conclusion is no exhaust will be quiet because of the JDL equal length headers. The alignment was the issue, you'll see in an upcoming video.
Speed Academy Yes, I heard you say it at the end of the video, but I didn't want to change my comment. :) That's great, as long as you figured it out. Can't wait for the next one. Keep up the great work guys!
+TheWerkz yessir, played with bars and dampers quite a bit to get the car to rotate but the wing was just dominating the balance of the car until we set it to the least aggressive angle of attack possible.
Seriously guys, INVIDIA Q300! That will definitely quiet up the exhaust. Even with an upgraded Header/OP/FP the Q300 should be waaaay quieter then what you have now. DO IT!
+theplatformer If the Corsa didnt quiet it down nothing will. The Corsa has a resonator AND the muffler is baffled so its not straight though. We need to either put the stock exhaust on or swap the headers out to unequal length.
+Speed Academy I love you guys but no way. I've heard Q300 paired with FULL BOLT ONS/W FI and it definitely isn't as loud as your setup. The Q300 when BY ITSELF is barely if not slightly louder than stock. I doubt the same can be said for the Corsa or the AVO. Could it be the header probably...it will definately make the car louder but you guys just need a quieter(and less raspy) exhaust imo. Go on ft86club forums and I guarantee many will tell you to switch to the Q300. Its the go to exhaust for those who want the quietest set up possible.
+Scott Wallace We'll push Scion to hopefully have the car show up there! As for Calabogie, it was an incredible track. You're lucky to have such a great track so near by. We wish we had something similar near Toronto. Mosport is great but bogie is the perfect mix of high speed and technical.
+justin nguyen That's our friend Will@PZ Tuning. Look him up and you'll see how crazy that Civic really is. Or watch our Grid Life video since we do a quick walk around of it.
Maybe you should change the anti roll bars. Stiffer at the back or softer on the front. That would decrease understeer too. With damper adjustment you will only reduce understeer when the car rolling or you hit bumps or curps. You should also check your toe. To setup your car you have to figure out where the car is understeering. While braking, when starting to brake, when stop braking, while braking in the corner, while rolling in mid corner, the moment you hit the throttle, while hitting curbs, on the throttle at corner exit. At each of these poinst you choose different setup changes. What i can see from the onboard. The car understeers till mid corner and oversteers when you go on the gas. This can be reduced by less toe in at the front, stiffer rear arb, and defenetly need more toe in at the back or stiffer the low speed rebund at the front
+Alex Manzano The air bag is out of the wheel so it doesn't weigh any more than an aftermarket one. Plus we really like the feel and size of the stock wheel so there are no plans to change it anytime soon.
+Besjan Saidi That is an option. Or we could have gotten an alignment done and figured out it was way off thereby causing all the issues. We failed hard!
+Speed Academy I know you guys are very knowledgeable about making cars fast. Everybody can see that. But I think you are wrong on stiffer front sway bar compared to the rear sway bar is not contributing factor to the under steering condition that you are experiencing. All cars that are being sold to the public that has sway bars are "bias" to under steer. OEM sway bar setups, to promote under steering, makes the front sway bar to be more stiffer than the rear. OEM wants the car to under steer because it is deemed "safer". I am sure you guys know this because you guys are car guys to the extreme which I admire and appreciate. But if you say it's an alignment issue and can be proven on the track then I stand corrected.
+aaguirre123 Nothing you said is wrong per say but we've upgraded both the front and rear sway bars and the car has always had a great neutral handling balance so the last thing we want to do is add more rear sway bar since it'll upset the balance that we've enjoyed for so long.
+Fyxxterzc EXACTLY! We made a foolish mistake going to the track and testing before going to get an alignment. And guess what! The alignment was the cause of the issues.
Fantastic to hear. Now you need to put the wing back on, track it again and after put the two cars head to head and see what pans out. :) Personally, I am pulling for the ass2k because I own one! Much luck to you guys, and nice work on those cars!
i love how much science goes into making a racecar!
This is what I have always wanted from a car enthusiast magazine/website! You guys are the best on TH-cam, bar none!
+Chilicharger665 Thank you! We really appreciate the kind words.
Great video guys I like all the data you logging to get this thing dialed in. Man that wing sure makes a huge difference.
+Blake's Garage Thanks! We're always trying to show real world results.
You guys are amazing drivers..the way the car let go at 9:00 and you caught it like it was child's play
+motormusique That's not us, that's how easy the car is to drive. :)
+Speed Academy If I buy an FRS will I look that cool too? :p
+motormusique Cooler! Because yours will have an interior haha.
Guys this channel is so good. It addressed the real world realities of so much knowledge in tuning cars. You are right, the wing WILL NOT do much at low speeds. I know it looks like it right now but its just not physically possible. The down force is just not there. Put your hand out the window, cup some air at low speeds. Feel the difference in force. There is is a reason that aircraft drop out of the sky under 55 knots. Its not because wings still work at low speed. I think the alignment may have more to do with this... but again ... I wouldn't have said the alignment would have that much to do with it but hey... I love it when I am wrong because it means I just learnt something new. Good Job guys.
+gus bisbal Hey Gus, the alignment was definitely off which was a main cause of the understeer but we're still puzzled how the handling changes with and without the wing even at slower speeds.
have you considered that while the rear wing is obviously producing a tone of down force, it may not be the element that is lifting the front. There is a possibility that the front lip is not working correctly and its producing lift for some strange reason. If for some reason its causing air to accelerate over the lip, faster than the air accelerates under the car, which is possible because you don't have a flat bottom, then there is the possibility of it lifting the front. Stranger things have happened in aerodynamics. Have you done a lap without the front lip but with the wing?
+gus bisbal We now have a full week of driving the car with the front splitter and wing on and it performed really well so the combo is working properly and providing adequate downforce.
Awesome, can't wait for the next vid. So do what cause the high understeer? Did you find out?
Why isnt this channel bigger? You guys are amazing, excited for the next episodes, keep up the great work guys!!! Love from Texas!!
+rzbomb rides Thanks for the love and kind words. We're hoping to grow quickly but as with anything on TH-cam these days, it's going to take some time.
+Speed Academy This is true, I wish the best of luck, y'all are truly genius' with cars, you've gained a few subscribers, ive told my friends and they love it! Once again, lots of love from Texas!(:
obnoxiously loud .. very interesting to see that the wing made that much of a difference
+Daniel Tojcic ikr!It's like they said.Everyone is going to tell you that a wing is only gonna make a difference at higher speeds,if it even works at all.And then off the wing goes andBAAAM!DORIFTOOO :P
It's probably the swan neck! That wing is insane!
Well,tbh I've seen them on GT500.But you assume it's only natural since those cars are monstrous.I never believed a wing would make that much of a difference in a 300hp street/track car!
+Orfeas Christodoulou The Swan neck wins reduce turbulence on the wing during cornering or something like that. Since it's not directly bolted to the bottom of the wing, air flows more smoothly esp during cornering since air coming from an angle is no longer hitting the mounts. Its the little details that make these designs great.
Been having a great time going back through your videos. Consistently great content and info along with being quite entertaining. Great stuff
Man you guys have improved so much during all of these videos!
+18iser Thanks! Sounds like you're coming around and actually liking what we do. :) We're happy about that!
can you guys show that ducting in a little more depth in a future video? would love to see where it ducts from, how you routed it, etc. looks cool
+ThroughFallenEyes yes, this ^^
+ThroughFallenEyes We'll shoot a video of the ducting very soon.
Awesome video!! Learning a lot of how you guys go about testing the car! One day i will be back out road racing.
this was very interesting to watch! i cant belive how the car reacted without the wing even at slow speed..
+Rising Sun Neither did we! Damn wings making too much downforce lol
I'm gonna pretend you said Mercury instead of Mars.
Great video as always. A lot of insight into the functionality of a wing.
+Nic Johnson Dave is a smart guy but his space knowledge isn't the greatest. I told him about his error and he apologizes profusely haha.
cool i like the way ur cars suspension are set up for owning a fwd i really need to stabilize understeer and remove body roll
I was going to say that exhaust still sounds loud. Great video and useful info.
+coldvaper TOO loud, driving it on the street is obnoxious. Next year we figure out how to make it super quiet.
Very Educational, especially about suspension tuning. More please.
+walt350z Excellent to hear. We'll be doing much more suspension tuning in future issues.
I too was surprised how much a rear wing changed my handling. It's going to be difficult to come up with a front aero package that makes as much downforce as that huge wing. Maybe try some doubled up large canards? Vent the fenders and the hood? i.e. viper ACR or GT3 RS?
+Phoenix60 We'll be doing hood vents in the future forsure. That and maybe some more front canards if the car still needs it.
you guys are lucky, i want to do something very similar to this to a gt86, but you guys need a bigger diffuser and probably carbon fibre fins in the front
nice work guys loved the transformation i thinjk it looks better without the wing
+Jose Villegas Some people love the wing while others hate it. For us, the functionality of the wing is why it's on there.
Looks like they're too busy to read the comments. I hope that means they're busy making the next video. So the keyboard warriors yelling about high speeds and rear wings are wrong. Love the videos guys. I've never seen a more thorough rundown of a car's performance. Your videos are getting even better.
+joe smith Thank you! We've been out competing at the Ontario1500 so we haven't gotten around to reading all the comments. I'm just going through them now and I've got way toooooo many to reply to.
love the channel!... im a race driver in chile and i was thinking to buy a brz for track days and now thanks to you im decided to buy one jajaja lots of things lerned on this channel to use :D
pd: sorry about my English jaja
+Pablo Andres Jeria Mayol That's great! You're going to love the car, it really is one of the best for the race track.
Love your channel, bout to subscribe after I watch all 11 videos of your 86 track build as I am loving the series, as well as your build! Couple questions if you guys don't mind. What headers are you guys running? Any idea how loud car is in terms of decibels? Did you have any issues with local police? Thanks Speed Academy and looking forward to more videos of the FRS and other track builds.
great video
Why not using harder rear antirol bar to extract the potential out of the wing ?
+Maxime Trepreau It turned out to be the alignment causing the understeer so thankfully we didnt need to start messing with the sway bar!
You could always buy thicker sway bar for the rear, see if that helps. I think that would be cheaper than buying a new wing. Even adding a little air to the rear might help. Add camber to the rear, like go from a -.8 to a -.4 degrees. Not sure how much that would mess with temps though. Just trying to think of cheaper ways to fix so you dont' have to go buy a new wing. I admit, my initial reaction to the wing was that it was going to be too much.
Anyways, I dont' have a ton of experience as you guys, but it's fun to think it through.
I think a stiffer rear sway bar would make it oversteer more
Well yeah it would, that is what they're looking for. The car is understeering too much.
+select20 no. drifting is oversteer.
+select20 and adding camber would also make it slide more. Which is worse
Yeah, if you add too much, but done right it would make the rear end rotate a little more. I'm not talking talking about adding a ton of camber, just .3-.6 degrees. They didn't say the understeer was really bad since the splitter helped, but just didn't help enough.
The header really makes this car loud. I ended up putting my stock muffler on for street driving the using a nameless track pipe for my autocross events.
+MNachtigal That seems like the way to go. Stock muffler with the headers keeps the car quiet. Something that we may do next year.
Speed Academy maybe look into the Perrin 3" cat back? The end of the center pipe had a V band, you could make up a lighter muffler better flow for at the track and have it attach at the vband. Kina My plan for next year but we will see. Just an idea ;)
+MNachtigal We're thinking of taking the existing 3-inch piping and just doing a v-band like you mentioned to a stock exhaust but we dont want to have to swap it out. That will take too much effort. Instead we just want to keep it on. Depends on how much power we drop!
that's not a bad idea. I started making my own 3" cat back this summer with Vibrant ultra quiet mufflers and resonator. Sadly I have not finished it to see how it works.
+MNachtigal Keep us posted if you do finish it!
1) I really think you guys need to get a proper alignment before doing anything else.
- alignment makes a tremendous difference at least for the local s2000s we have that go to the track here regularly.
2) I'd try fiddling with the kws some more , have you guys tried calling kw to see what they think or can suggest?
Great video :-D
+R00567 You're spot on and guess what, the alignment WAS the issue! We got too greedy and went testing before the alignment, FAIL.
Why not set the wing on a slicker setting and/or improve front downforce. While that splitter looks kinda neat, i think there are improvements to do there. Does it have a rake? Do you really need the rubbery cornersplitters? Are there any other DF modifications you can do to the front? Great project guys, I really enjoy the series.
+bingoberra18 We did reduce the wing angle and it helped a bit but the biggest issue was the alignment which you'll see in an upcoming video!
Cant you change the degree of the spoiler so it makes less downforce?
+KoNLaRz they can, but they might of maxed its low setting
+Cole Reeb Yeah, it looked like it was as low as it could go.
+KoNLaRz Yes and we did, it helped a bit but not much since it was already at a low angle.
+Speed Academy Could you guys not adjust the front splitter to give it a bit more angle, or add some washers or something to the mounts if it isn't adjustable? Like in the 350z wind tunnel video.
+Dylan94 The easiest way is to add rake which means raise the rear of the suspension up. However, we could also add more angle to the splitter if need be. We just don't need to do any of that yet since the alignment is what was the issue.
So ok I have a question.
What pressure is the coolant actually operating at?
Because at 220 deg. F, you need about 600 psia just to keep it liquid...
Now those numbers are probably off because I wasn't sure exactly what coolant it is, so I just looked at my tables and the coolant I have on there is 134a, which might not be what you guys have...
If the alignment doesn't help I guess I would try
Lower the existing mounts for the wing or fab up some new ones with more adjustment
Put some big time attack style canards on the front or try lowering the front
Get a new wing because this one seems very big
Also you guys should have more views, love this show!
+purplehazenilsp The alignment was the issue, video to come soon which will explain it all!
Man, wish you showed an exterior view for when you were drifting. Would've loved to see that!
You guys have a great intro to the video haha. About the exhaust, still quite loud. Try out the Invidia q300, great exhaust, more on the quiet side.
+NoGunLicense Thanks! No matter what exhaust we try it's still too loud. The header is the real issue.
Element tuning modified their FRS to rev to 9000 rpm by adding an oil accumulator, changing the valves to +1mm, replace valve springs and changing the internals to forged internals. Is there a future video where you guys would do the same modification to your frs to be able to rev up to 9k rpm and there by making more horse power.
+aaguirre123 We are contemplating an engine build but the reliability of an engine revving to 9K usually isn't great. Especially with the amount of track time we do. Add to that the transmission not being designed to handle those RPMs and it sounds like a lot of R&D before you can get that setup to be reliable.
+Peter Tarach thanks for replying. I think your channel is the best in terms of teaching the public how to increase performance and how to race fast. There is nothing else like it. Don't be surprise if you subs go over 1 million in the near future. With regards to 9k rpm, element tuning tracks their car. They have a TH-cam channel, not as good as yours, that shows how the 9k rpm frs drives on the track. If you have time they have a website that details the work they have done to their frs. It would be great if you guys are able to do the same and may be even better than their frs car.
+aaguirre123 Thank you for the good words. What is the website. I will def check it out!
Try with the diffuser on with wing on and wing off it should handle better with the diffuser for more downforce in the rear and less over steer
+Jadon Ghereben Turns out of the alignment was all out of wack which is why the car was behaving the way it was.
bloody nice save at 9:15
+saamy dash Im not used to sliding around so much but thankfully the FRS is so easy to catch. If that were the S2k I'd spun out for sure!
Sounds good but damn its loud. Great build guys.
+Chris Miller WAAAY too loud. Our ears hurt when we drive it to and from the track!
+Speed Academy Yea that's how my BMW rally build is as well. I have to thank you guys for the inspiration. since you guys did Targa Newfoundland I have started rebuilding the car for that. I hope its ready for next year! Keep up the good work guys!
rear control arms for less neg camber and maybe add more meg camber up front?
This might be a stupid question, but Would UEL headers made a difference in terms of how loud your exhaust is? I have a friend who had a subaru 2.5i and when he went from his stock equal length headers to the UEL I found that it was much quieter. But it could be different from one car to the next.
+NorthernS15 Yes, UEL headers reduce the drone and noise quite a bit. We're thinking about switching over to them for next year.
I wonder can you take off the end plate or something to reduce wing effectiveness
+Speed Academy Do you have more info on the ducting and you didn't mention, did you move the location of the water gauge?
+Erik McIlhenney We didn't move the gauge location, just accounted for the difference in temp. And I'll shoot a video on the ducting as soon as the car is back at the shop.
@ 7:11 you look like Canadian Matt Farah.
+Cody Poloway i honestly thought i was the only one who thought that
+Cody Poloway Yeah but he isn't talking about how the Fiesta ST is better than an F1 car.
+willyjameshuff But the Fiesta ST has crazy handling and is less than 25k and cobb make it go really fast for cheap and it is guaranteed get you laid and also cure cancer by just sitting in the passenger seat. On a side note I have yet to drive one and I know that it probably does handle very well. But at this point it just feels like a constant sales pitch from a ford employee.
+willyjameshuff Haha, this made us really laugh out loud!
So if you have single adjustable dampers what would you do to fix understeer and oversteer since they change both rebound and compression at the same time.
+Mark Cifuentes This should answer all your questions: speed.academy/how-to-fix-understeer-or-oversteer-suspension-handling-setup-tuning/
As I have come to expect great video again. Really love the ASS2000/Badass2000. just amazing results, mad respects to you both. People talk about roadkill but that's more spectical than real car guy; learn to build and go FAAASSSTTT. For my money yours is the only one I get impatent for. OH and FYI folks you should check out the web site not something hacked together these guys have a background automotive jernalism . so the stories read well and tell the story. Please keep it coming need more; Is there a12 step programe? I think i may be developing a problem. Truely nothing but respect tinged with a little envy.
+roger depew Haha, thanks for all the kind word Roger! Much appreciated and glad you like our site. Lots of great content there that enough people don't take advantage of.
thing sounds soooo freaking good!
Please please do the frs vs s2000!!! I don't know which one to keep
drop the wing and run a spoiler & wicker setup and add the diffuser if needed, or if you really want to use the wing u could put heavier springs in the rear and go much heavier to see if it helps the car rotate. its not really worth working on the dampers when you have such huge balance problems. you could also try to add some toe-out in the rear, add more front camber (street cars can rarely get enough so add a bunch) and mabey a bit more rake tho that will put the wing higher in the air so that might not work. or you could build a splitter that actualy creates downforce
+Erik Blixt I was going to add a comment for the SA guys with some obvious stuff to try but you covered it all Erik. Errr, except maybe lower the front spring rate and smaller front ARB.
+Erik Blixt The alignment was way off which is what was causing all our issues. The car works really well with the aero as is now.
Steve Ireland
ops sorry didn't know they already tried everything you can do to a car :(... when u start fiddling with the dampers when ur car is aero pushin that bad ur lost. i just think the car would be much faster if u ran a spoiler and working underboody aero(splitter,floor and diffuser). but they alredy tried that as its too obvious.
+Speed Academy Great. lets have a video of a lap!
Pete was like crying after those scary drifts. LOL
+Mazda Dash Cam I'm not used to sliding a car around that much haha.
I was wondering wtf you were doing 7:40 ty for peter lol
Awesome video guys. Keep it up
+Chris Ball Glad you're liking the series.
did these guys buy the unfactory tuned Jackson kit? trying to see if its worth buy the kit with the factory tune vs without the engine management.
Yes because we were having it tuned to our specific needs so no need for the tuned version from JR
Gasp, y'all answered! Legit. Lol. If you buy the kit separate do you need to buy anything extra? Because I read that buying the factory tune is less hassle after install. I realistically would like 250-275whp after install, nothing too major.
what scanner is that ? the one you plug on the car to see temp and stuff
i only have 1 request in doin suspension cn u guys go deeper in the build im building my car for track and i really want to learn from u guys
+robertlouieomo123 You need to check out our website, we post a lot of great content about suspension tuning there too!
Damn that thing is loud. You said this one is quieter? I don't think so, hehe
If you dialed out the angle of attack on the rear wing completely you could run higher pressures at the rear and a bit stiffer sway-bar and softer damping in the front. That might help. But I'm assuming you already tried that.
+Atrax R Nope, the conclusion is no exhaust will be quiet because of the JDL equal length headers.
The alignment was the issue, you'll see in an upcoming video.
Speed Academy Yes, I heard you say it at the end of the video, but I didn't want to change my comment. :)
That's great, as long as you figured it out. Can't wait for the next one. Keep up the great work guys!
Did y'all try to stiffen up the rear sway bar and soften up the front sway bar?
+TheWerkz yessir, played with bars and dampers quite a bit to get the car to rotate but the wing was just dominating the balance of the car until we set it to the least aggressive angle of attack possible.
i love yout show keep up the awesome work guys
+Monder Phoenix Thank you! We've got more great content coming.
Seriously guys, INVIDIA Q300!
That will definitely quiet up the exhaust. Even with an upgraded Header/OP/FP the Q300 should be waaaay quieter then what you have now. DO IT!
yep, Q300 or stock.
+theplatformer If the Corsa didnt quiet it down nothing will. The Corsa has a resonator AND the muffler is baffled so its not straight though. We need to either put the stock exhaust on or swap the headers out to unequal length.
+Speed Academy I love you guys but no way. I've heard Q300 paired with FULL BOLT ONS/W FI and it definitely isn't as loud as your setup.
The Q300 when BY ITSELF is barely if not slightly louder than stock. I doubt the same can be said for the Corsa or the AVO.
Could it be the header probably...it will definately make the car louder but you guys just need a quieter(and less raspy) exhaust imo.
Go on ft86club forums and I guarantee many will tell you to switch to the Q300. Its the go to exhaust for those who want the quietest set up possible.
You guys are so helpful!
+Fernando Leon Glad we can be of service. :)
Great vid as usual
+S2k2014 Thank you!
can you give more info on how and what you did for ducting?
We basically did this to our radiator: th-cam.com/video/9heotG2BGEs/w-d-xo.html
When are you guys going to be at Calabogie Motorsports Park?
+Scott Wallace We were there this past week on tuesday and wednesday.
dang, that makes me sad. I have wanted to do a build on the FR-S for the last few years and I really wanted to see yours in person.
+Scott Wallace The car may be at the Auto Show at either Montreal or Ottawa (if there is one) so you may still have your chance later this year.
Speed Academy there is an auto show in Ottawa every year, would totally look forward to seeing you guys there. What did you think of the track?
+Scott Wallace We'll push Scion to hopefully have the car show up there! As for Calabogie, it was an incredible track. You're lucky to have such a great track so near by. We wish we had something similar near Toronto. Mosport is great but bogie is the perfect mix of high speed and technical.
The civic at 4:26!!
+justin nguyen That's our friend Will@PZ Tuning. Look him up and you'll see how crazy that Civic really is. Or watch our Grid Life video since we do a quick walk around of it.
Racing Education from Speed Academy...
+arif rifz Glad you're learning something. That's our intent.
Should be 90deg into the tyre when doing the tyre temps.
9:14 is my best part
+fe9 Haha if only we were actually good at drifting then we'd actually go try it.
Lower the wing till u have the perfect zen between under and oversteer??
+Invisible〈3rx8 We can change the angle but to get it lower would require different uprights and we dont have time for that sadly.
Have you seen how much aero Evasive had to use in the front just to balance the car? Talk about drag.
How much hp does the car have now
8:40 That car control though.
+Caleb Marshall We try to keep it from crashing :)
What size tires are you guys running?
255/35R18 Advan Neovas
Maybe you should change the anti roll bars. Stiffer at the back or softer on the front. That would decrease understeer too. With damper adjustment you will only reduce understeer when the car rolling or you hit bumps or curps. You should also check your toe.
To setup your car you have to figure out where the car is understeering. While braking, when starting to brake, when stop braking, while braking in the corner, while rolling in mid corner, the moment you hit the throttle, while hitting curbs, on the throttle at corner exit. At each of these poinst you choose different setup changes.
What i can see from the onboard. The car understeers till mid corner and oversteers when you go on the gas. This can be reduced by less toe in at the front, stiffer rear arb, and defenetly need more toe in at the back or stiffer the low speed rebund at the front
+CF88DRUM All great tips thank you. The alignment was our biggest issue, so with that dialed in now we can play with our sway bars and dampers again.
amazing video!!!
+ravenstylea2 Thank you!
No shit it understeers, the tyre pressure is in the stratosphere!
Yo what about that geo metro
Please change the steering wheel for a race steering wheel, your note a great difference and the weight down !
+Alex Manzano The air bag is out of the wheel so it doesn't weigh any more than an aftermarket one. Plus we really like the feel and size of the stock wheel so there are no plans to change it anytime soon.
You could try to make more downforce in the front..:)
+Besjan Saidi That is an option. Or we could have gotten an alignment done and figured out it was way off thereby causing all the issues. We failed hard!
Are those tires semi-slicks?
+Martin Amlie No they are street tires, Toyo R1R's
Damn haha, missed about 6 episodes, need to catch up :D
+Claudio Decina Thankfully it's easy! Just binge watch em haha.
+Speed Academy hahaha definitely sounds like a plan,
+Speed Academy the FRS sounds louder than before hahaha
NOISE LIMITS AT A TRACK??!?!!!?!?! SERIOUSLY??!?!!!?!?!
It's because of people living near the track and complaining about the noise. Fucking idiots
We have them in Vette City as well. 95% of racers don't have an issue. It's the few a-holes with no header ruining it.
name of exhaust??
U guys r awesome.
+ttcro22 Thanks! We're happy you're enjoying the content.
put the defuser on leave the wing off
+Henry Kenick GOod idea there, but not sure it would be enough? to balance with the splitter. THat splitter is pretty big.
where can i get the fancy 86 shirt
DAT ONEGUY look up whatmonstersdo on Instagram
how much have you invested to this point ?
+Jose Villegas We've probably got about close to 15K into the build.
wow nice work more videos please
Has anybody check the rake?
+Buckie Fairweather Yup, the car has forward rake, it turned out to be an alignment issue which you'll see in a video really soon.
Lol that exhaust makes it sound like a k24 civic😂
ha that's the quiet exhaust
Cool video, I really loved the sound. Sub'd for more content
+bodhifyer Awesome! Thanks for the sub.
méh it's too quiet... hahaha you guys should make a sleeper build or pick up a little car and put a bike engine on xD
holy hell that things loud
+Ellwood76 Too loud, it's not bad with the helmet on but driving it on the street is just ridiculous.
Mars is actually way colder than Earth.
+Alex Lyons Dave now knows that, he retracts his statement haha.
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad !! :D
+sKroji MCM fan eh! We are too!
your front sway bar is stiffer than your rear sway bar. that's why you are under steering.
+aaguirre123 No, our alignment was way off causing the understeer.
+Speed Academy can't wait for your next video to see if the alignment work
+Speed Academy I know you guys are very knowledgeable about making cars fast. Everybody can see that. But I think you are wrong on stiffer front sway bar compared to the rear sway bar is not contributing factor to the under steering condition that you are experiencing. All cars that are being sold to the public that has sway bars are "bias" to under steer. OEM sway bar setups, to promote under steering, makes the front sway bar to be more stiffer than the rear. OEM wants the car to under steer because it is deemed "safer". I am sure you guys know this because you guys are car guys to the extreme which I admire and appreciate. But if you say it's an alignment issue and can be proven on the track then I stand corrected.
+aaguirre123 Nothing you said is wrong per say but we've upgraded both the front and rear sway bars and the car has always had a great neutral handling balance so the last thing we want to do is add more rear sway bar since it'll upset the balance that we've enjoyed for so long.
+Speed Academy Cool. Really excited to watch you guys race.
Lmao! Awesome video!
+MrFuzzaBear Glad you liked it! :)
Messing with aero with a crappy alignment is like bragging to the boys about a date that didn't happen.
+Fyxxterzc EXACTLY! We made a foolish mistake going to the track and testing before going to get an alignment. And guess what! The alignment was the cause of the issues.
Fantastic to hear. Now you need to put the wing back on, track it again and after put the two cars head to head and see what pans out. :) Personally, I am pulling for the ass2k because I own one! Much luck to you guys, and nice work on those cars!
+Fyxxterzc There's a S2k vs FRS track test coming soon! :)
That exhaust is one of the loudest ones i've heard lmfao..
+Nic D Yeah its stupid loud! We'll be replacing it yet again next year haha.
4:30 fucking RIP headphone users
+TehPureVisions Our apologies haha, there were some eardrums destroyed at that track day.
eazy put this wing on the s2000 and put the old wing back on the FRS from New Finland Targa...
Problem solved.. :)
+Tony Nguyen Haha, we need the wing for the high speed tracks we'll be competing at.
Nice
that thing sounds like vtec lol!
+Tony Carranza It really does, hearing it in real life is pure bliss.
get a wing on the front of the car
That's what the canards and front splitter are for
+djlolypop yeah but they still get a bit of undesteer
and besides, i was just joking, no one adds a spoiler to the front
+The Ultimate Racer Well....
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Audi_S1_Pikes_Peak.jpg
Boni Hollóssy shush we dont talk about that
You guys don't like to use gloves on the track? some people laugh but on track or autocross I love wearing gloves, feels a lot better.