It’s a damn shame people don’t appreciate The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, to me it’s a masterpiece and my favourite Fincher movie, perhaps not his best but my favourite. Thanks for this great video
Jenny didn't die of HIV/AIDS. She had Hepatitis C. As she said she has an unknown virus that the doctors didn't know about. HIV was well known in the 80s, but Hepatitis C was just recently discovered when this movie came out.
I watched Benjamin Button shortly before my girlfriend and I broke up. Upon watching this video, it's crazy to think that the message of happiness after losing something that you couldn't help but let go gives me a sense of happiness. Love can be the center of someone's life, but it shouldn't be the only thing and in a way, you never truly lose anything as the memories you have with it lasts eternally.
I feel that Benjamin Button is actually the far more responsible film in its depiction of life and humanity as witnessed from a certain character born different from the rest.
Gump's experience of the 20th century is perhaps more a normal person's experience so to speak. We watch the movie from the present and look at all these great historic events and think wow, why don't you talk more about them. But for the people who lived through those events, especially someone like Forest, they're just background noise. Most people focus on their day to day, their experience, while history plays out around them. And what will become history is not always clear. Forest goes through life blindly, optimistically, and that works for him. Through him we see the 20th century, but to him it's secondary to the person he has perhaps too much of a thing for. There are all sorts of analyses of Jenny, I won't go into her, but we've all known a broken person who runs repeatedly into electric fences, and we all know people who see someone else as better than they are. I've also not seen Benjamin Button. Maybe I should give it a watch.
You're not misguided or amoral if you take a stance, instead of settling as a housewife with the sweet idiot. Forrest Gump's apolitical obedience makes the movie very political.
@@lakrids-pibe The guy obviously had a learning disability, so what do you expect? This movie is quite realistic. Forrest Gump was never meant to be a hippie. (I'm not saying that conservatives are semi-retarded. In fact, most leftists clearly are in the double digit IQ crowd. But mentally limited people strongly tend to not view events of their lives in some grand political compass.)
I hope you dig it. This video came from me rewatching the movie for the first time since my freshman year of high school and being blown away by how much I still really loved it.
I watched Benjamin Button for the second time a month ago and loved it! My first viewing was when it first came out. I'm a huge Fincher fan, so I was surprised that I didn't care for it. The movie starts a little slow but it's fantastic once it gets going! Kind of a dark but sweet fairytale, with a lot to say about life, goals, perspective, and relationships. Solid 9/10 for me.
I had a similar response to Benjamin Button at first. It was the first Fincher movie I saw when I was a teenager and while I enjoyed it a lot I quickly lost interest after seeing movies like Seven and Fight Club. It was only when I finally went back to Benjamin Button this summer (which led to this video) that I realized just how I deeply I loved this movie.
Forrest Gump is about America, about people as a whole, as he remembers it. It is much more broad, and, to me at least, much more effective. Benjamin Button is about one man's life, and several moments in it that only matter to him and the small people around him. It is a great story, but not as effective. In Gump, it feels like we could've been there, in each scene. It is nostalgic, and feels close. Button feels distant, we're looking in at someone else's life that is inconsequential on ours
I just watched Benjamin Button for the first time today and was moved to tears in several parts. And I, of course, immediately recognized all the surface parallels of the two films. So I got curious if anyone else had thought the same thing. Did a search on YT and here I am. Great analysis, I agreed with all the points. Button is a far superior films with infinitely more depth. I thought you had especially great notes on the co-dependency aspect as well. Thanks of sharing your thoughts.
I had interpreted Forrest Gump as being more of a metaphor. Gump isn't a character so much as a physical embodiment of America, particularly a generation of Americans. He, Jenny and Lt. Dan are different aspects of that generation, which is why they all get something of an arch and everyone else is an extra.
I think Forrest Gump is far more nuanced in every element than you are giving it credit for and unfairly comparing it in light of what Benjamin Button is going for rather than on the face of what Gump itself is angled towards. I think it would be remiss to say the film fails to engage with the history it is presenting. In the case of something like Vietnam, for instance, I find the lack of any context into why it is happening to be in itself something that can be read positively - highlighting the absurdity of going into the conflict. And within the Vietnam piece of the film are two major acidic points to the film: the embrace of Gump for stupidly doing what he is told (best highlighted by his drill sergeant saying he would be a general someday) and the dejection of Lieutenant Dan when he is back in the states. The former is more of a few moments of black comedy, though those moments are far more of a condemnation of conformity than an embrace of it as you suggest the film favors*, while the latter is a core part of the narrative. Lieutenant Dan, who by the criteria of most should be a hero or at least seen as honorably serving, is a lowly alcoholic amputee with nary any support from the nation he was willing to die for. And he is well aware of the absurdity of the military industrial complex, poking fun at Forrest, just about the dumbest guy anyone knows, winning the Medal of Honor with a "god damn bless America." He won't overcome his trauma with knowledge of how America's war machine led him to that point, it just furthers his despair. Knowledge itself is not healing, especially when that knowledge only leaves you feeling like an imbecile - remember this is a character who felt his destiny was to honorably die in war like the rest of his family, probably not the kind of guy who will be at peace through military disillusionment. He only comes to peace with what happened when Forrest's respect and love for him outlasts and overwhelms his hatred of himself - what Rogerian therapy would say is him internalizing Forrest's unconditional positive regard. Forrest's unrelenting empathy is his superpower and the core of the film. The film is on its whole an exploration into how Forrest's good-natured but decidedly uncomplicated perspective is in itself a way to heal from the pain of the past. He does not interrogate the history he experiences because the film is less interested in probing all the whys of history than it is in acknowledgment and continuing on, all the while genuinely caring about the people around you. Jenny's arc, a mirror of Lieutenant Dan's, is a perfect illustration of this. She is constantly running away from the childhood trauma inflicted by her father, a trauma that keeps her from wanting to be with Forrest, himself seemingly a child-like figure she does not want to prey on, and is only able to make peace with it in the face of her own mortality. It takes the ending of her life for her to accept she would rather be happy living with the man she loves than continue running from her past. *Forrest's empathy is a greater part of his achievements than his willingness to conform. In Vietnam, he deliberately disobeys both the advice of Jenny and even the order of Lieutenant Dan to continuously go back and save his platoon, unwavering in his ultimately failed single-minded mission to save Bubba. Despite Bubba's passing and everybody calling him stupid for doing it, he starts Bubba Gump and with Lieutenant Dan builds it up to a massive business. Even with the following he gets for running across the nation is little more than something he decides to do on a whim and the desire of reporters and other people running alongside him (themselves either conforming to a popular event or merely trying to run from their own lives) to read a deeper meaning into it or to expect Gump to have any answers are shrugged off. The only way to read Forrest as conformist is in contrast to Jenny - but then again, isn't Dan also conformist in contrast to her? And he'd be left miserable and essentially abandoned by society were it not for Forrest.
@@EyebrowCinema thanks Forrest Gump is my favorite movie I would recommend rewatching it with what I have written in mind look for the parallels in Jenny and Forrest stories look for the 2’s when they are together Jenny doesn’t feel unhappy because she is separated from Forrest she is unhappy because a part of her went to heaven when she was a child she was trying to reunite herself but only Forrest can do that she tells the taxi driver specifically I am not running the next scene has Forrest start running for her Cause running is healing in the movie lt Dan can only heal when he gets new legs What was Jenny’s advice when he was going to Vietnam? To run from danger-she saved Forrest like he saved her You may have some valid points about the conservative nature of the film though I would argue that any politics are secondary or tertiary Jenny reconnected with Forrest because she knew she was going to die and needed a father/home for their child Again she was still not complete even after Forrest ran for her so she couldn’t/wasn’t coming home to be a mother But she was still with Forrest and Forrest jr even after death-the feather
I've loved Benjamin Button ever since I saw it almost ten years ago. This video fully articulates my thoughts and feelings about it. When talking about Fincher's best films, it gets overlooked. Being sandwiched between Zodiac and The Social Network, the comparisons to Forrest Gump, and being seen as (but not actually) Oscar Bait caused a lot of people to write it off.
One of the most underrated channels I have ever stumbled upon, thank you for enlightening me, both movies are easily in my Top 5. I look forward to more informative and inspirational content, once again thank you.
I remember watching Forrest Gump as a kid and absolutely loving it. Now 30, I rewatched it again, and found I didn't like it as much. Your video essay has helped me understand why that may be. Thank you and you have gained my sub.
22:12 Legit thought this was going to be a song by The Police. You can imagine my surprise when I realized how deep this cut actually is. Well done. 👏👏👏👏
I watch this video every so often when I remember about the beautifully apt comparison you make at the beginning. It’s so well written. And then I get sucked in to the rest of the video because it’s just so enjoyable listening to the rest of the comparisons that are made and how well spoken you are. Thank you for making this wonderful essay.
Interesting insight, I do disagree with a lot of it but I love the analysis nonetheless! I like both films and have to defend Forrest a little, there is more depth there, eg I always took Forrest as living the "established" media version of American history and Jenny living the actual history of America that the majority of working Americans probably encountered or lived. Also, and it's a cliché but Forrest's disinterest in all the amazing events he lived is the film saying having love is more important than having an amazing life. Great channel Eyebrow, keep em coming!
You missed a lot in Forrest Gump’s thesis. I love your work but this video particularly seems like you are taking shots at a movie without fully understanding it. Gump’s movie isn’t about the benefits of obedience. It’s about the power of kindness and being in the moment.
Forrest Gump isn't very explicit in it's themes, and also not entirely focussed, which leads to more than one valid interpretation. The plots at its core is about an idiot without agency and awareness achieving succsess often through dump luck, while all the peple that try fail or go through quite a lot of misery. One could read this as the movie saing "just conform to the system and you will be all right" . Or as a satire which says "to succsesfully take part in Americas ideology you must be stupid". Althoug the latter is somewhat compromised by forrest Gump being portraied as sympathetic. Because Gump is a good person, and in the instances where he acts on his compassion(which in my opinion are the only moments where he has agency) that satirical interpretation gets a little more shaky. But all the other fleshed out characters (so Jenny and Lt. Dan) also achieve emotional fullfilment, at least to a degree, when they act on compassion, and not selfish goals. (Althogh for Jenny it's a little more complicatet, but I'm not smart or patient enough to analyse her part in the story) So the movie might also say that compassion is the only way to truly achive happines, while also saying that for systemic succses you must be a lucky idiot. I admit, these to don't really go that well together, thats what I meant that the themes of the movie aren't very focussed. And in my opinion you have to perform some mental gymnastics to get any meaning out of Forrest Gump. And to be fair I felt a little like acrazy guy conecting strings to different unrelated photos, but I also feel that with the other analysis of this movie. But even if it doesn't have anything to say its still fun. And in my opinion thats all right. Sorry for all this :D
The "is Gump satirical question" is a rich one. Those elements are there, but the film plays its emotional drama with such sincerity that I find it difficult to read that way. Thanks for sharing.
This is my favorite video essay and The Curious Case is one of my favorite movies. A constant theme in my own musical works is the difference between art and entertainment. How art is experienced, thought about and analyzed for deeper meanings in relation to one's own life experiences; whereas entertainment is consumed, mostly forgotten about, and simply substituted by more enrichment. These two movies are the epitome of that idea to me and this essay succinctly puts those thoughts into video format. I think about Benjamin Button with every hard goodbye or death I experience. It's a really comforting movie when you take the time to think about it; and it's a movie that just gets better with time. Also shout out to Scott Joplin's Bethena. They could have easily had Button learn the Entertainer or Maple Leaf Rag, but Bethena is an excellent composition and has a melancholic sound that works well with the themes of this film.
This video gave me goosebumps! Very good review of the themes in each movie and how they are both similar and different. Another coincidence is that they were both released together in a Double Feature DVD a few years ago.
I'm amazed you aren't up there with Ralphthemoviemaker and Lindsay Ellis, these are masterful. Your use of prose *mwah*, beautiful. Thanks for the great video.
I noticed similarities between the scripts quite early into CCBB and this devalued the movie a bit for me. Ultimately however, CCBB might be the deeper movie.
That's a great idea. I rewatched Gladiator for the first time in ages and thought it held up really well and would definitely be curious to rewatch Braveheart.
So weird. I watched THIS video today, BEFORE finally watching episode 6 of Darkplace for the first time only a few hours later... only to hear one track lover THERE. Again.
Your critique of Forrest Gump seems to forget the idea that Gump is mentally disabled, thus his passivity. I never read Jenny returning to Forest as her returning to her true love but her returning to her last option, a much darker Outlook
I also think there's something to be said about each director's trajectory after these respective projects. Fincher is still a technical genius but none of his movies have come close to incorporating the same level of technical innovations as Benjamin Button, he's continued to evolve his narratives without letting the allure of technology overtake them. Zemeckis meanwhile has gone further down the rabbit hole of developing special effects instead of story, culminating in something like Marwen which simplifies its plots complex issues so much that it feels completely anti-thetical to the true story, in favour of putting steve carrells face on a doll. Great video btw, especially love the deeper reading that beneath all the cynicism Fincher might actually love people as a subject, I guess to show the worst of humanity as many of his movies do, you have to understand the best as well.
Fantastic point regarding where both men have gone moving forward. Especially since Zemeckis first followed Gump with more character-based work like Contact and Cast Away before becoming obsessed with tech. I admitedly haven't seen Welcome to Marwen, but everything I've heard about it suggests it is the culmination of his path.
Ho damn, I got to 3:20 and I thought the video was about to end, but then I saw that was only 1/10th of the video. What an excellent beginning. Edit: man, you did NOT waste that time. You have completely sold me on the thesis. I have always had a lump in the pit in my stomach watching Forrest Gump that I could never explain. I now believe that it is the inherent cynicism of the film that you have highlighted, and it's so insidious. I hate to say it, but the movie is officially ruined for me. I wouldn't take it back, though.
You are a criminally underrated TH-camr. You've made a film I've never seen (Benjamin Button) touch me deeply through your analysis, and you've re-framed a childhood film of mine into a sobering look into my own dogmas. Thank you for this video, and please keep making more of them!
While I think David Fincher is a remarkably skilled director (one of the if not the best in the world at directing in my opinion) I honestly was disappointed with the curious case of Benjamin button, but my reason is mostly if not all due to the writing. When I watched it, it felt like a Louisiana gimmicked (I’m from and reside in Louisiana, I have the same local news station that’s shown in the hospital in the film) version of Forrest Gump, but with less creative storytelling and weaker emotional moments. For example, when Benjamin is aged to be a little boy, looking about the age of six when he once again encounters Cate Blanchett’s character, she just literally says out loud that he’s the same age she was when her character who was portrayed by Elle fanning met Benjamin for the first time. Instead of visually telling that scene to recreate the same scenario or perhaps using a same and strong music cue from the original scene to elicit the emotion, the screenplay has Cate Blanchett just tell the audience what is happening in order to try to get an emotional moment. And as far as creativity goes, other than Benjamin looking like an old man as a young man and vice versa (and some questions are left with how they play it, he’s shown to have a high libido when he looks really old in the brothel scene I think he’s supposed to be 15, so when he reaches his 60’s and looks to be in his 20’s, does he perhaps develop erectile dysfunction or osteoporosis, etc.?) there’s something very odd at how serious it takes itself; it left me with a bizarre feeling. In the original source material; Benjamin is born as a full sized elderly man and in turn the book plays it more tongue and cheek, and I think writing the film with a more similar tone to the source material would’ve benefited the experience greatly because it would be more self aware about the absurdity of an elderly man reverse aging rather than playing it straight. I typically don’t leave comments like this but I genuinely enjoy your content and figured I’d share my take on the film, I’m glad you enjoyed it and I agree others should watch it for themselves too, but I figured you may find my take to be interesting; I think there’s lots of talent involved across the board and I did care about Benjamin and Benjamin’s mother, but I feel the storytelling could’ve had a bigger impact with some more creativity involving the premise. Anyways, keep up the good work I enjoy your content ! Edit: Typos
11:41 - well not entirely true. The fact that Forest and Bubba were fighting in Vietnam is a throwback to the way McNamara put low IQ men in harm’s way, I.e. McNamara’s morons, so-called.
Took me a while to get thru the whole video but now that I am done I must say that is was entirely worth the wait. Thank you. I am happy to have been able to assist in some small way and I look forward to whatever you have lined up next!
I just rewatched Forrest Gump a few months ago, which I loved as a kid. And I loved it more as an adult. But I just rewatched Benjamin Button which I hadn't seen since I was 13. And I appreciate it so much more now as an adult about to turn 29. As I have more experience, loss and love to reflect on. While I think there are things that could have been done better they are two of my favorite movies.
I am so happy and thankful that I was able to find this video because I knew there were way too many similarities between the two. I compared Benjamin button to Forrest while talking to an ex of mine, and he didn’t get it. But I am glad that you made the comparison, because the first time I watched Benjamin button all I thought was 1. This movie is amazing why didn’t I watch it sooner and 2. It’s a lot like Forrest Gump, maybe that’s why I love it so much.
Roth wrote the screenplays, not the story for either. Forrest Gump was written by Winston Groom and TCCOBB was written by none other than F Scott Fitzgerald. Both stories feature archetypal characters and adventure stories. I'm surprised you didn't include all the Disney characters and the Odyssey. Please see Joseph Campbell for further enlightenment.
Such a cool analysis, thanks ! With time, I definitely lost any uplifting feelings from Forrest Gump and you worded my confused feelings on it perfectly. I had completely missed the beauty of Benjamin Button. After your video I went back and rewatched the film, and it took my breath away.
It is a beautiful piece! I spent like a day going through the FMA looking for music for video essays and it was one of the best songs I came across. Wonderful work. Thank you for making it accessible.
This was an interesting watch, please keep making whatever videos you feel like doing, it's clearly working! I recently saw a similar critique of Forrest Gump by Renegade Cut and while I agreed with many of his points, I think you did a better job of explaining why the political/philosophical implications doesn't work.
I feel foolish that I didn't have any clue that Fincher directed Benjamin Button. It seems to me his typical stylistic flourishes that identify a film as a venture film or absent in BenjaminButton..... Quite a compliment I think, even with zodiac I can immediately tell it was a Fincher directed project
I just rewatched Benjamin Button for the first time since I saw it when I was 5 or 6 years old (when it first came out. I did not understand it at the time), and, having seen Forrest Gump many times in between, I immediately thought: "this is just like Forrest Gump, only deeper... like a poem of fate" and then I came here and you laid it all out. Also, i didn't know that both were written by Eric Roth, so that was a nice tidbit. I think it is a masterpiece in it's own right, not as a visual achievement, but as a tale of humanity and the fate we all share. Thanks for making this comparison so clear and why one was so much more profound and impactful on me. I think in the end Benjamin Button was a great story of hope, not tragedy. Edit: And I look forward to watching it many more times.
I loved your analysis of these two great movies!! I have a slight preference for Benjamin Button, but I think both are true masterpieces in film-making and storytelling.
“You were just mad at your father” Yep, and the film unfortunately glosses over that through the framing of Forrest’s naïveté because GIVE WHAT HAPPENED TO HER FROM HER DAD YES I HOPE SHES MAD AND THAT SHIT AFFECTS A LOT OF THINGS
Forrest Gump is a very hollow movie, and the thing I think speaks best to this isn’t even a part of the movie. It’s a tie in restaurant, Bubba Gump Shrimp Co. An overpriced family seafood restaurant most commonly found in those places heavily frequented by tourists, such as the riverwalk in San Antonio, Texas. Much like a restaurant like Rainforest Cafe is jungle themed, Bubba Gump is Forrest Gump themed. The film is playing on a variety of screens at all time, and many of the restaurant’s menu items are named for niche bits of the film, such as Lt. Dan’s Surf and Turf, a shrimp and baby back ribs plate that typically runs for about $30 after tax. It isn’t worth $30, but they charge that none the less. It’s not a very good restaurant, it’s very commercial, and the service is rather poor. The last time I was there, they forgot the chicken in my mother’s chicken salad, and then proceeded to throw bits and pieces of it all over the floor when examining the dish for themselves. We weren’t charged for the meal, she ate free that night, but it should not have happened in the first place. At the end of the day Bubba Gump’s is a hollow, overly commercial restaurant that has a lot going on on the surface, but has virtually nothing to back up all the excessive decoration. Much like Forrest Gump.
mel on I think it is. Forrest Gump is a film with basically zero substance and pretty icky message about conformism that hides behind Tom Hanks and a bunch of flashy special effects the same way Bubba Gump is a restaurant with shitty food and worse service that hides behind its theme and a bunch of flashy decorations. Pretty 1-to-1 if you ask me.
@@redtexan7053 it still is a none equivalence. Here is an interpretation about the films depth online. I read an essay online that puts together some interesting interpretations maybe you could read it that would be great: "In 1994, when Robert Zemekis’ cinematic sensation Forrest Gump topped the box office and waltzed away with six Oscar nominations, the critics were firmly in two camps: either the film was unworthy escapism, or it was an ultraconservative conspiracy to communicate an outdated message of traditional values such as patriotism, capitalism and the family. The liberal elite delivered the resounding verdict that there was no serious moral to the story, or else there was a highly suspicious one. And in typically literalist fashion, right-wingers in America lauded the film as a thinly-veiled assault on the counterculture, arriving at an astonishingly simplistic interpretation of the film: Jenny, Forrest’s sweetheart, took drugs, hung out with anti-Vietnam types, and was rewarded with AIDS. By contrast, Forrest wore his country’s uniform, invested wisely, went to church, and made a mint. Yet the film never suggests that making the cover of Fortune magazine (as Forrest does) is where our human aspirations ought to lie. Forrest Gump deserves to be rediscovered. As the film opens we see a white feather fluttering on the wind as it gradually floats down, eventually landing next to Forrest Gump’s dirty-tennis-shoe-clad foot. Gump is sitting on a park bench in Savannah, Georgia, a box of chocolates perched on his lap. These two symbols, the feather and the chocolates, illustrate the film’s true key theme: Fate - the uncontrollable events that make each of us what we are. But the film’s emphasis is not on fate itself, but on our responses to what fate deals us. While we can’t decide what happens to us, we each have important choices to make in the circumstances in which we find ourselves. Thus in many ways the film’s message is existentialist. In Existentialism and Humanism (1946) Jean-Paul Sartre distinguishes between human nature and the human condition (p.45ff). Sartre rejected the idea that we possess a generic nature, in the sense of an essence that can be found in each and every human being. Nevertheless, he argued that we share a universality of condition. We find ourselves thrown into the world, and we share the necessities of having to labour and die here. While these necessities are fixed and universal, Sartre stresses that there is nothing about this condition that determines the kind of life we must lead, either as individuals or as groups. Thus our condition limits us in various ways, but it does not compel us to behave in particular ways. Our common predicament means that we must give moral shape to our lives through our free choices. This is an enormous responsibility, because, since humanity has no essence, each of us is literally responsible for creating our humanity. If we choose a holocaust, says Sartre, then this is what we have made of ‘human nature’. Likewise, if we choose resistance or peace, then this is what ‘humanity’ has become for us. Forrest Gump is about these sorts of choices. The real target of Forrest Gump’s critique is the (typically Protestant) American notion that material rewards are the inevitable outcome of a virtuous, industrious life. The film shows that by contrast, people don’t get what they deserve, and life isn’t fair; it’s more like a box of chocolates: “you never know what you’re gonna get.” All of the main characters in the story - Forrest, Mrs Gump, Jenny, Lt. Dan, Bubba - are dealt their share of suffering and grief. Forrest is born mentally disabled, and with “a back as crooked as a politician”; Mrs Gump’s husband has left her; Jenny’s only parent, her father, is abusive; Lt. Dan gets his legs blown off in the war; Bubba is killed in Vietnam while others survive. None of us can control fate, but in an important sense we make our own destiny by the ways in which we respond to it. On her deathbed, Mrs Gump summarises this philosophy: “I happen to believe you make your own destiny. You’ve got to do the best with what God gave you.” To illustrate this philosophy, in an early scene, Mrs Gump tries to instil in her son a belief that he is “the same as everybody else.” Despite the fact that the young Forrest is mentally slow and has to wear braces on his legs, he is entitled to the same opportunities and has the same human dignity as everyone else. “If God had wanted everyone to be the same,” Mrs Gump explains, “then He would have made it so everyone had braces on their legs.” When she attempts to enrol Forrest in school, the Principal insists that Forrest will have to go to a special school because his intelligence is below normal. But Mrs Gump refuses to deny Forrest the same opportunities as everybody else, and to that end she’s willing to prostitute herself. While the Principal is collecting his bribe from Mrs Gump, young Forrest hears loud grunts emanating from her bedroom. When the guardian of institutional normality emerges, wiping the post-coital sweat from his brow, it is he who is made to look stupid, when the young Forrest mimics his grunts. This scene highlights the Principal’s hypocrisy: he is the head official in an institution that exists for the purpose of improving people’s minds, yet his own mind is too small to conquer his libido. Meanwhile, Mrs Gump’s behaviour may be socially unacceptable, but her intention is worthy and she doesn’t feel ashamed. This scene alone is a damning indictment of 1950s American social institutions. These scenes establish Mrs Gump’s moral voice in the story. She is the main influence on Forrest’s life, and her message is that what makes him the same as everybody else is not that his natural endowments are identical to everyone else’s (none of us are equal in that sense), but that, like everyone else, he has the potential to make his own destiny with what fate has given him. His basic human condition (what Sartre would’ve called his facticity) is what makes Forrest just like anyone else. Lt. Dan learns the film’s central message painfully when his own destiny veers off the expected path, disrupting his family’s tradition of war martyrdom. Lt. Dan curses God for instead being made to live with a physical disability. He is reluctant to accept the fact that life is unfair. Yet although the facts are arbitrary, our ability to make choices and to do something with our condition is fair, as the ability to choose is equally distributed to all. In the realm of freedom we all have an equal opportunity to give our lives value. Dan is only liberated from his crippling emotional bitterness when he finally accepts that his freedom, his ability to make the most with what destiny dictates, is where the real value of his life lies. Forrest delivers the film’s central motif at Jenny’s grave: “I don’t know if Mama was right, or if it’s Lieutenant Dan. I don’t know if we each have a destiny, or if we’re all just floatin’ around accidental like on a breeze… but I think maybe it’s both. Maybe both is happening at the same time.” The seemingly arbitrary feather on the wind is a symbol of our lives. We too are tossed about by destiny, with little control over where we’ve come from or where we’re going. But Forrest Gump shows us we still have important choices to make in spite of this, and that these choices give our lives its real value." Continue below:
"So many box office hits are about protagonists who exert power and control, mostly over others. By comparison, Forrest Gump is an unlikely hero. He is depicted as ‘innocent but harmless’, ie, too dull to be cunning or dangerous. Because he does not have the ability to be calculating, he genuinely cares for other people, because he innocently (naively from the cynical perspective of American politics) thinks that other people really matter. Forrest’s natural altruism, and his inability to measure the value of his life against the ‘normal’ criteria of competitive achievement, along with Lt. Dan’s triumph over his own resentment, offers viewers a real source of inspiration, rather than another escapist fantasy of omnipotence. While most Hollywood blockbusters celebrate a kind of heroic hyperperfection inconceivable in real life, Gump reveals the bravery it takes to accept our mere humanity and turn our trials to fortune, both for others and ourselves. While some critics lamented that this fortune had to be taken so literally (‘Bubba Gump Shrimp’ turns Forrest into a millionaire), I still believe the film is better understood as a scathing critique of American capitalist values and the profit-driven worldview that underpins them. In the real world, a morally-innocent millionaire is virtually an oxymoron. This is primarily because, as we instinctively know, morality is distinct from self-interest, the cardinal rule of capitalism. As soon as we begin to ponder the question ‘Why should I be good?’ we understand that a genuinely good person would not need to ask what’s in it for him. If one seeks a reward for an act of goodness, then the motive isn’t good but selfish. The principal at Greenbow Central City School is ‘good’ to Forrest only when he has something to gain; and the same can be said for the University of Alabama. Forrest’s exploitation at the hands of the football team, which after five years allows him to get a college degree, is a comment on how even education in America is little more than a cynical business transaction. Forrest Gump is a witty satire which holds the American political establishment up to moral scrutiny, especially the military-industrial complex. Time and again, Forrest’s naïve innocence is contrasted with the cunning cleverness of those who exploit him, also including the US military. When Gump is awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for his service in Vietnam, President Johnson kicked off the award ceremony by announcing the need for further escalation of the war in Vietnam. When the President asks to see Forrest’s wound, this provides an opportunity for a not-too-subtle affront to the motives behind the ceremony, as Forrest moons him (the wound was on his buttocks). At the Washington monument, we see a uniformed man unplug the sound system in order to deny freedom of speech to Vietnam vet Forrest and other anti-war protestors. The silencing of Forrest is linked to the historical silencing of Abbie Hoffman and other young American anti-war protestors: Forrest is led to the speaker’s podium by Hoffman, the co-founder of the Youth International Party, who along with six others was tried for conspiracy for his outspoken role in protesting at the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago. The film also reminds viewers several times that all of America’s genuine moral icons have been killed by Americans, from John F. Kennedy to John Lennon. Cunning cleverness is what Forrest so desperately lacks, yet the question posed by this film is whether he is really any worse off for it. Forrest says to Jenny, “I’m not a smart man, but I know what love is.” The lurking question is whether the smart men who lead his country know what love is at all. Gump is continually being given accolades by politicos at the White House, the insinuation being that they prefer dumb, compliant Americans, so that they can carry on screwing them over. Yet Forrest’s innocent responses to their public relations stunts render them as foolish as him, because the viewer sees through the hypocrisy of their empty rituals and cynical PR ploys. The viewer’s sympathies stay with Forrest throughout, and the film leaves on-lookers lamenting the loss of innocent idealism that Forrest represents. As such, Forrest Gump is a swan song to the more honourable values that once made America great. The film ends the way it began, with the white feather floating away, leaving viewers to wonder what fate will bring to the next generation of (smarter) Gumps, and how they too will respond to circumstances they cannot foresee."
The movies can be summed up by their eras. Forrest is a 90s movie dedicated to boomers like Forrest coming out of the Cold War and adapting to the more quiet life of the 90s. Benjamin Button is a late 2000s movie made in the shadow of not Katrina but 9/11. The real tragedy the movie is hinting at subtextually.
This video is a delight. I've always avoided Forrest Gump (I was a teenager when it came out) because it struck me as self-satisfied and jingoistic. The premise (and origin) of Benjamin Button didn't appeal to me but I came across it on TV late one night and was charmed, touched and thoroughly engaged by it. Will Forrest Gump be a film that people look back on in another 20 years and consider it overblown and overhyped, like Crash (and Green Book)? Fingers crossed (o; ps When I heard the lyric "I'm a one-track lover" I came down to the description to remind myself why this song felt familiar - kudos for referencing Garth Marenghi q:
I think what will help Gump's legacy is that it does work as an escapist entertainment a lot more effectively than movies like Crash or Green Book. Plus, the core filmmaking is extremely good, even if its substance is lacking. And it's so lovely to see people recognize the Garth Marenghi reference!
Crash was considered overhyped the year it was released. Most people were talking about it being overhyped because of cast and it being about racism. Green Book is seen by most as the same. A safe look at a real friendship through the lense of a movie with all the beats we’ve seen before. If Green Book had been released in the 1970’s, or 1980’s, it may have had more impact. I mean watch a movie like Moonlight, then watch Green Book. The difference in tone is palpable, and Green Book feels like it was a very diluted script. Both have Mahershala Ali, but in one film he is able to put so much reality into the character, while the other felt restrained, edited and censored. The academy is very odd that way. I’ve seen quite a few articles and some videos about why Shakespeare in Love _did_ deserve it’s Oscar over Saving Private Ryan, which are fun to watch, even though I think it’s ridiculous. Usually it’s about the gender issues these people think Shakespeare in Love contains. It’s a very well acted film, but not Oscar worthy in 1998, in my opinion. Truman Show, pi, Thin Red Line, Dark City, American History X, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, Ronin, Pleasantville, Run Lola Run, Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, and many more that are just better films. I don’t even dislike Shakespeare in Love, but It just doesn’t challenge any thought or reveal anything new. I understand why so many loved it, because it’s not taken itself too seriously, and has some wonderful performances. There is just so many better movies that got no promotion, and only became cult classics later, or have been forgotten about.
So, TIL of your channel, and I am now subscribed from this video. I was 27 was when Benjamin button came out and, I honestly just got bored. Ten years later, and I happened to catch on HBO and it's literally my favorite now. I had to be mature enough to have already swallowed that bitter pill that the only thing constant is change.
Nice to meet you, Abster! I'm glad you liked this. I had a similar history with Benjamin Button. It wasn't until my rewatch last summer that I realized just how special the film is.
honestly the fact that forrest gump stay away from politics is what made it mostly timeless, any one can relate with forrest trying to live a happy life in the 20st century not matter what kind of political stance are you. Where benjamin due to his condition he was forced to do things he didn't want to do to keep foward not matter if people agree with him or not, i mean in one hand you have dorothy gale learning the importance of home and the other hand you have mr smith fighting the incompetence and corruption from the senate in the 30's. It dosn't matter how much mature and complex mr smith sounds you will always relate to dorothy and remember that theres no place like home. PS: benjamin outside from his condition, he is motly a boring character at least when he becomes younger and its basically any brad pitt dramatic performance. He was more interesting when he was "older" with 8 years old.
My goodness you have really misread Forrest Gump Lt Dan’s purpose in the movie was to represent fate and predeterminism in contrast to Forrest’s mother who represents free will and choice Lt Dan’s arc is his acceptance of free will and making choices in his life The story is not about history but is Forrest and Jenny’s love story Since this is Forrest and Jenny’s story the historical events are only experiences and the events causes are irrelevant the key points being the impacts they have on the characters Jenny says she wishes she could have experienced Forrests with him and Forrest responds that she was always with him Point being the details of Forrest past are irrelevant compared to how Forrest viewed the experience ie Jenny was always with him As for their love story yes it was the traditional one true love story but told in a unique way Forrest and Jenny were two peas in a pod However Jenny had to send a part of herself to heaven to escape he abusive home “make me a bird and fly fly away” It works but she then spends the rest of her life trying to reconnect the separate parts of herself look for all the flying and bird references in her story When she reconnects with Forrest she gives her pain to him (through the gift of running shoes and making a baby) and Forrest runs to heal her Btw remember how Forrest marriage proposal played out-he asks her she says you don’t want to marry her he says I know what love is and goes outside to look at the sky where the other half of her is
I have to disagree about you take on Forest Gump’s politics. The movie is from Forest’s perspective who is while wise, has some cognitive disability. He has a noble simplicity which may be a knock on his intellectual, but it is not a knock on his morality or honor. This isn’t a negative either, it’s actually why I think the movie is so great. Despite, not truly understanding why he is at war or who the black panthers or KKK were, Forest still fights courageously, compassionately and honorably. If fact Forest crosses paths with maybe historical figures and events throughout the movie, but never tries to influence them for any personal gain while still acting bravely and kindly. He’s a good person because he acts like a good person. Not because he says he is or fights a cause. Why then, would the movie comment about the politics of his time if he didn’t understand them. It’s about Forest and how he saw these events. The absence of politics serves to reinforce the noble simplicity of the movie. I’m not saying movies shouldn’t talk about politics either, I just don’t think it would improve Forest Gump as a movie and would actually hinder it by taking away from the core themes. That is all. I really enjoy your videos I just thought this take was missing the point of Forest Gump.
Just found your channel. New subscriber. Ive been binge watching. I first watched your "The Shining" video. One of, if not my favorite movie and your video was excellent
I feel like Forrest Gump is almost an enigma. Most people just watch it, like it, and then go about their lives. But once you notice its story’s strange stance on conformity, it’s hard to unsee it. I feel like almost any film, even movies with conservative perspectives, don’t normally just say “always follow the rules no matter what” with its narrative, yet that is what Gump is doing. So it then raises a question of, why? Is it a conscious choice to not say anything on history, or to make its character’s success come from just doing what people tell him? Is there a deeper meaning being missed? It almost becomes a Rorschach test in trying to “figure out” the movie when there’s probably nothing to figure out. And then what does it mean when one still at least enjoys the movie when watching it? All that to say, phenomenal use of Darkplace, well done, more people need to see Garth Marenghi’s Darkplace, and I need to finally see Benjamin Button
I do believe the filmmakers when they say the conservative readings weren't intentional. If anything, what it might reveal is how deeply ingrained ideas of "pure American values" are in society. And I'm glad you liked the Darkplace reference!
Fascinating as a good review for "Benjamin Button", which is generally regarded as a "meh" movie. Maybe not a failure, just "meh", esp. for a guy with Fincher's rep. As for the other one, I never cared for it, feeling that it manipulates you harder than any other movie I can think of, minus some of Mel Gibson's beauties like "Passion of the Christ". I just feel that it's a flag-waving, rah-rah movie, first and foremost, even more than an ode to conformity (though that, of course, is part of being a rah-rah movie). It's pose seems to be, "Look at the great things that can happen in Murica, even to a dummy. Just work hard and do what you're told!" I know Zemeckis et al. deny that, but that's how it comes across.
Good video as usual but I always dismissed both films at least from the directors and screenwriters. Forrest Gump seemed to be a giant ode to Baby Boomer navel gazing and Button seemed to be Oscar bait. Great work by the actors but I remember being annoyed at the time seeing Blanchet since this was when she was getting cast in everything. Definitely was the best work in Pitts career.
While I understand the critique of Forrest Gump, and it is not one of my all-time favorite films I did find it quite well done and enjoyable. Yes the lack of interesting characters in Forrest Gump is one of the main reasons it's not higher on my list of favorite films, but part of the enjoyment for me was a Hollywood for once decided not to spoon feed me what was good in American history and what was that in American history. If you're looking to Hollywood films for your history you have already failed in any scholarly or intellectual pursuit.
25:30 The whole conformity aspect and how Jenny goes against the norm and gets noting but bad luck in return, is what we call an "accidentally aseop" And it amazes me that I see reviews on letterboxd calling this a "republican wet dream"
You're not wrong about the first part, but you're definitely wrong about the second part. Intentions or not, everything just magically falls into place for Forrest when he plays it straight and everything goes wrong for Jenny when she goes against the norms. The filmmaking makes you root for Forrest to such a degree that Jenny is villainized simply for not dropping everything to stay with Forrest, and we're supposed to believe that's what her cure would be. As if it were that simple. I think that's why people call it a Republican wet dream, it liberates everything the party stands for. American Dream, rigid social norms, etc. It might not have been Roth's intention but it is 100% conservative in attitude with even the smallest amount of critical political/cultural analysis.
He didn't say Katrina was in 2008; he said that, for audiences watching Benjamin Button in 2008 (the year the film was released), the memories of Katrina were still very fresh and painful.
18:30 Do all these music cues seem like a cliche still? Did they read as cliche when forrest gump came out? I was only 9 years old when this movie was in theatres. Did they get used to death in the intervening time and become examples?
Great vid! Yeah, I've always liked "Benjamin Button" a lot more than "Forrest Gump." "Forrest Gump" is certainly a good movie - no doubt, but it's hands down one of the most overrated film's of all time imo, I've never really understood why it's so adored. On the other hand, "Benjamin Button" was, while being slow, absolutely brilliant from start to finish and was/is one of the most thought-provoking films I've ever seen.
This might be the most underrated youtube channel ever.
I appreciate that, mate. Cheers.
Awesome, thank you Jerry Malachi and Brennan Chandler
Just for now
It’s up there. Still less than 40,000 subs. Through made with the same quality of many other huge channels on films.
It’s a damn shame people don’t appreciate The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, to me it’s a masterpiece and my favourite Fincher movie, perhaps not his best but my favourite. Thanks for this great video
Amen!
Jenny didn't die of HIV/AIDS. She had Hepatitis C. As she said she has an unknown virus that the doctors didn't know about. HIV was well known in the 80s, but Hepatitis C was just recently discovered when this movie came out.
I watched Benjamin Button shortly before my girlfriend and I broke up. Upon watching this video, it's crazy to think that the message of happiness after losing something that you couldn't help but let go gives me a sense of happiness. Love can be the center of someone's life, but it shouldn't be the only thing and in a way, you never truly lose anything as the memories you have with it lasts eternally.
Well said.
“You can’t put your arms around a memory” -Johnny Thunders
I feel that Benjamin Button is actually the far more responsible film in its depiction of life and humanity as witnessed from a certain character born different from the rest.
Gump's experience of the 20th century is perhaps more a normal person's experience so to speak. We watch the movie from the present and look at all these great historic events and think wow, why don't you talk more about them. But for the people who lived through those events, especially someone like Forest, they're just background noise. Most people focus on their day to day, their experience, while history plays out around them. And what will become history is not always clear.
Forest goes through life blindly, optimistically, and that works for him. Through him we see the 20th century, but to him it's secondary to the person he has perhaps too much of a thing for. There are all sorts of analyses of Jenny, I won't go into her, but we've all known a broken person who runs repeatedly into electric fences, and we all know people who see someone else as better than they are.
I've also not seen Benjamin Button. Maybe I should give it a watch.
But...But it has to take a stance! We can't accept that historical events often don't touch normal people.
@@MacSmithVideo it really doesnt for the average person
You're not misguided or amoral if you take a stance, instead of settling as a housewife with the sweet idiot.
Forrest Gump's apolitical obedience makes the movie very political.
@@lakrids-pibe The guy obviously had a learning disability, so what do you expect? This movie is quite realistic. Forrest Gump was never meant to be a hippie. (I'm not saying that conservatives are semi-retarded. In fact, most leftists clearly are in the double digit IQ crowd. But mentally limited people strongly tend to not view events of their lives in some grand political compass.)
"The world is what it is; men who are nothing, who allow themselves to become nothing have no place in it." - vs naipaul
You have persuaded me to see The Curious Case of Benjamin Button ASAP. Damn am I ready to dive deep into that movie.
I hope you dig it. This video came from me rewatching the movie for the first time since my freshman year of high school and being blown away by how much I still really loved it.
If you love forrest gump you will love that movie too!!!
I watched Benjamin Button for the second time a month ago and loved it!
My first viewing was when it first came out. I'm a huge Fincher fan, so I was surprised that I didn't care for it.
The movie starts a little slow but it's fantastic once it gets going! Kind of a dark but sweet fairytale, with a lot to say about life, goals, perspective, and relationships.
Solid 9/10 for me.
I had a similar response to Benjamin Button at first. It was the first Fincher movie I saw when I was a teenager and while I enjoyed it a lot I quickly lost interest after seeing movies like Seven and Fight Club. It was only when I finally went back to Benjamin Button this summer (which led to this video) that I realized just how I deeply I loved this movie.
Forrest Gump is about America, about people as a whole, as he remembers it. It is much more broad, and, to me at least, much more effective. Benjamin Button is about one man's life, and several moments in it that only matter to him and the small people around him. It is a great story, but not as effective. In Gump, it feels like we could've been there, in each scene. It is nostalgic, and feels close. Button feels distant, we're looking in at someone else's life that is inconsequential on ours
I did not like Forrest Gump. Stupid Hollywood movie.
I just watched Benjamin Button for the first time today and was moved to tears in several parts. And I, of course, immediately recognized all the surface parallels of the two films. So I got curious if anyone else had thought the same thing. Did a search on YT and here I am. Great analysis, I agreed with all the points. Button is a far superior films with infinitely more depth. I thought you had especially great notes on the co-dependency aspect as well. Thanks of sharing your thoughts.
I love this "no thing last forever but fulfillment is not limited to one thing"
I had interpreted Forrest Gump as being more of a metaphor. Gump isn't a character so much as a physical embodiment of America, particularly a generation of Americans. He, Jenny and Lt. Dan are different aspects of that generation, which is why they all get something of an arch and everyone else is an extra.
I think Forrest Gump is far more nuanced in every element than you are giving it credit for and unfairly comparing it in light of what Benjamin Button is going for rather than on the face of what Gump itself is angled towards.
I think it would be remiss to say the film fails to engage with the history it is presenting. In the case of something like Vietnam, for instance, I find the lack of any context into why it is happening to be in itself something that can be read positively - highlighting the absurdity of going into the conflict. And within the Vietnam piece of the film are two major acidic points to the film: the embrace of Gump for stupidly doing what he is told (best highlighted by his drill sergeant saying he would be a general someday) and the dejection of Lieutenant Dan when he is back in the states. The former is more of a few moments of black comedy, though those moments are far more of a condemnation of conformity than an embrace of it as you suggest the film favors*, while the latter is a core part of the narrative.
Lieutenant Dan, who by the criteria of most should be a hero or at least seen as honorably serving, is a lowly alcoholic amputee with nary any support from the nation he was willing to die for. And he is well aware of the absurdity of the military industrial complex, poking fun at Forrest, just about the dumbest guy anyone knows, winning the Medal of Honor with a "god damn bless America." He won't overcome his trauma with knowledge of how America's war machine led him to that point, it just furthers his despair. Knowledge itself is not healing, especially when that knowledge only leaves you feeling like an imbecile - remember this is a character who felt his destiny was to honorably die in war like the rest of his family, probably not the kind of guy who will be at peace through military disillusionment. He only comes to peace with what happened when Forrest's respect and love for him outlasts and overwhelms his hatred of himself - what Rogerian therapy would say is him internalizing Forrest's unconditional positive regard.
Forrest's unrelenting empathy is his superpower and the core of the film. The film is on its whole an exploration into how Forrest's good-natured but decidedly uncomplicated perspective is in itself a way to heal from the pain of the past. He does not interrogate the history he experiences because the film is less interested in probing all the whys of history than it is in acknowledgment and continuing on, all the while genuinely caring about the people around you. Jenny's arc, a mirror of Lieutenant Dan's, is a perfect illustration of this. She is constantly running away from the childhood trauma inflicted by her father, a trauma that keeps her from wanting to be with Forrest, himself seemingly a child-like figure she does not want to prey on, and is only able to make peace with it in the face of her own mortality. It takes the ending of her life for her to accept she would rather be happy living with the man she loves than continue running from her past.
*Forrest's empathy is a greater part of his achievements than his willingness to conform. In Vietnam, he deliberately disobeys both the advice of Jenny and even the order of Lieutenant Dan to continuously go back and save his platoon, unwavering in his ultimately failed single-minded mission to save Bubba. Despite Bubba's passing and everybody calling him stupid for doing it, he starts Bubba Gump and with Lieutenant Dan builds it up to a massive business. Even with the following he gets for running across the nation is little more than something he decides to do on a whim and the desire of reporters and other people running alongside him (themselves either conforming to a popular event or merely trying to run from their own lives) to read a deeper meaning into it or to expect Gump to have any answers are shrugged off. The only way to read Forrest as conformist is in contrast to Jenny - but then again, isn't Dan also conformist in contrast to her? And he'd be left miserable and essentially abandoned by society were it not for Forrest.
We obviously disagree in our readings, but this is very well-written and I appreciate your contribution. Thanks for commenting.
Forrest was not empty and alone through all of his experiences he specifically states she was with him the entire time
@@EyebrowCinema thanks Forrest Gump is my favorite movie
I would recommend rewatching it with what I have written in mind look for the parallels in Jenny and Forrest stories look for the 2’s when they are together
Jenny doesn’t feel unhappy because she is separated from Forrest she is unhappy because a part of her went to heaven when she was a child she was trying to reunite herself but only Forrest can do that she tells the taxi driver specifically I am not running the next scene has Forrest start running for her
Cause running is healing in the movie lt Dan can only heal when he gets new legs
What was Jenny’s advice when he was going to Vietnam? To run from danger-she saved Forrest like he saved her
You may have some valid points about the conservative nature of the film though I would argue that any politics are secondary or tertiary
Jenny reconnected with Forrest because she knew she was going to die and needed a father/home for their child
Again she was still not complete even after Forrest ran for her so she couldn’t/wasn’t coming home to be a mother
But she was still with Forrest and Forrest jr even after death-the feather
Eric Roth is writing the new Dune movie. That should be interesting.
Every aspect of Dune's creative team provokes an "Oh wow that's interesting"
Eyebrow Cinema In a good way or bad way?
@@BugVlogs Good I think! They're all talented and interesting people who each increase my optimism and hope for the film.
Paul struggle to relate to his peers, especially in adolescence.
Can't wait for the trailer supposedly releasing this month
I've loved Benjamin Button ever since I saw it almost ten years ago. This video fully articulates my thoughts and feelings about it. When talking about Fincher's best films, it gets overlooked. Being sandwiched between Zodiac and The Social Network, the comparisons to Forrest Gump, and being seen as (but not actually) Oscar Bait caused a lot of people to write it off.
One of the most underrated channels I have ever stumbled upon, thank you for enlightening me, both movies are easily in my Top 5. I look forward to more informative and inspirational content, once again thank you.
I remember watching Forrest Gump as a kid and absolutely loving it. Now 30, I rewatched it again, and found I didn't like it as much. Your video essay has helped me understand why that may be. Thank you and you have gained my sub.
Have you read the book? It’s darker...
22:12 Legit thought this was going to be a song by The Police. You can imagine my surprise when I realized how deep this cut actually is. Well done. 👏👏👏👏
I'm glad someone recognizes it haha!
Garth Marenghi! Indeed, totally unexpected but very welcome :)))
I watch this video every so often when I remember about the beautifully apt comparison you make at the beginning. It’s so well written. And then I get sucked in to the rest of the video because it’s just so enjoyable listening to the rest of the comparisons that are made and how well spoken you are. Thank you for making this wonderful essay.
This is one analysis / commentary that I'm glad I watched. It has given me affirmations, disagreements, and food for thought.. salute.
Cheers, mate.
Lol the conformity thing was a bit of a stretch. The point of forest gump for me was that the underdog can succeed and live an extraordinary life.
Interesting insight, I do disagree with a lot of it but I love the analysis nonetheless! I like both films and have to defend Forrest a little, there is more depth there, eg I always took Forrest as living the "established" media version of American history and Jenny living the actual history of America that the majority of working Americans probably encountered or lived. Also, and it's a cliché but Forrest's disinterest in all the amazing events he lived is the film saying having love is more important than having an amazing life. Great channel Eyebrow, keep em coming!
You missed a lot in Forrest Gump’s thesis. I love your work but this video particularly seems like you are taking shots at a movie without fully understanding it. Gump’s movie isn’t about the benefits of obedience. It’s about the power of kindness and being in the moment.
Forrest Gump isn't very explicit in it's themes, and also not entirely focussed, which leads to more than one valid interpretation.
The plots at its core is about an idiot without agency and awareness achieving succsess often through dump luck, while all the peple that try fail or go through quite a lot of misery.
One could read this as the movie saing "just conform to the system and you will be all right" .
Or as a satire which says "to succsesfully take part in Americas ideology you must be stupid".
Althoug the latter is somewhat compromised by forrest Gump being portraied as sympathetic. Because Gump is a good person, and in the instances where he acts on his compassion(which in my opinion are the only moments where he has agency) that satirical interpretation gets a little more shaky.
But all the other fleshed out characters (so Jenny and Lt. Dan) also achieve emotional fullfilment, at least to a degree, when they act on compassion, and not selfish goals. (Althogh for Jenny it's a little more complicatet, but I'm not smart or patient enough to analyse her part in the story)
So the movie might also say that compassion is the only way to truly achive happines, while also saying that for systemic succses you must be a lucky idiot.
I admit, these to don't really go that well together, thats what I meant that the themes of the movie aren't very focussed.
And in my opinion you have to perform some mental gymnastics to get any meaning out of Forrest Gump. And to be fair I felt a little like acrazy guy conecting strings to different unrelated photos, but I also feel that with the other analysis of this movie.
But even if it doesn't have anything to say its still fun. And in my opinion thats all right. Sorry for all this :D
The "is Gump satirical question" is a rich one. Those elements are there, but the film plays its emotional drama with such sincerity that I find it difficult to read that way. Thanks for sharing.
This is my favorite video essay and The Curious Case is one of my favorite movies. A constant theme in my own musical works is the difference between art and entertainment. How art is experienced, thought about and analyzed for deeper meanings in relation to one's own life experiences; whereas entertainment is consumed, mostly forgotten about, and simply substituted by more enrichment. These two movies are the epitome of that idea to me and this essay succinctly puts those thoughts into video format.
I think about Benjamin Button with every hard goodbye or death I experience. It's a really comforting movie when you take the time to think about it; and it's a movie that just gets better with time.
Also shout out to Scott Joplin's Bethena. They could have easily had Button learn the Entertainer or Maple Leaf Rag, but Bethena is an excellent composition and has a melancholic sound that works well with the themes of this film.
This video gave me goosebumps! Very good review of the themes in each movie and how they are both similar and different. Another coincidence is that they were both released together in a Double Feature DVD a few years ago.
I'm amazed you aren't up there with Ralphthemoviemaker and Lindsay Ellis, these are masterful. Your use of prose *mwah*, beautiful. Thanks for the great video.
I noticed similarities between the scripts quite early into CCBB and this devalued the movie a bit for me. Ultimately however, CCBB might be the deeper movie.
It'll be interesting if you make another video similar to this but with Mel Gibson’s Braveheart and Ridley Scott’s Gladiator.
That's a great idea. I rewatched Gladiator for the first time in ages and thought it held up really well and would definitely be curious to rewatch Braveheart.
Eyebrow Cinema
Considering that's it been 20 since Gladiator came out, and 25 years since Braveheart came out.
It's brave enough to include ONE 2 second song clip on TH-cam these days, let alone a tiny clip montage. I salute you, sir!
Like Austin Powers before me I like to live dangerously.
Though I'm not a fan of either film, this video gets a like for appropriate usage of Garth Marenghi
Truly my most profound flash of insight.
So weird.
I watched THIS video today, BEFORE finally watching episode 6 of Darkplace for the first time only a few hours later... only to hear one track lover THERE. Again.
Wake up to a top notch video? Gonna be a good day. Thanks for making it a great morning!
Cheers, Mouse!
Your critique of Forrest Gump seems to forget the idea that Gump is mentally disabled, thus his passivity. I never read Jenny returning to Forest as her returning to her true love but her returning to her last option, a much darker Outlook
I also think there's something to be said about each director's trajectory after these respective projects. Fincher is still a technical genius but none of his movies have come close to incorporating the same level of technical innovations as Benjamin Button, he's continued to evolve his narratives without letting the allure of technology overtake them. Zemeckis meanwhile has gone further down the rabbit hole of developing special effects instead of story, culminating in something like Marwen which simplifies its plots complex issues so much that it feels completely anti-thetical to the true story, in favour of putting steve carrells face on a doll.
Great video btw, especially love the deeper reading that beneath all the cynicism Fincher might actually love people as a subject, I guess to show the worst of humanity as many of his movies do, you have to understand the best as well.
Fantastic point regarding where both men have gone moving forward. Especially since Zemeckis first followed Gump with more character-based work like Contact and Cast Away before becoming obsessed with tech. I admitedly haven't seen Welcome to Marwen, but everything I've heard about it suggests it is the culmination of his path.
The Walk is awesome
Both movies are classics and my absolute favorites...your analysis was great
Thank you!
Curious case of Benjamin Button..CLASSIC?Really.🤔
Ho damn, I got to 3:20 and I thought the video was about to end, but then I saw that was only 1/10th of the video. What an excellent beginning.
Edit: man, you did NOT waste that time. You have completely sold me on the thesis. I have always had a lump in the pit in my stomach watching Forrest Gump that I could never explain. I now believe that it is the inherent cynicism of the film that you have highlighted, and it's so insidious. I hate to say it, but the movie is officially ruined for me. I wouldn't take it back, though.
You are a criminally underrated TH-camr. You've made a film I've never seen (Benjamin Button) touch me deeply through your analysis, and you've re-framed a childhood film of mine into a sobering look into my own dogmas. Thank you for this video, and please keep making more of them!
You have persuaded me to finally watch Benjamin Button. Wish me luck
Good luck! I hope you'll report back here to let us know what you think :)
While I think David Fincher is a remarkably skilled director (one of the if not the best in the world at directing in my opinion) I honestly was disappointed with the curious case of Benjamin button, but my reason is mostly if not all due to the writing. When I watched it, it felt like a Louisiana gimmicked (I’m from and reside in Louisiana, I have the same local news station that’s shown in the hospital in the film) version of Forrest Gump, but with less creative storytelling and weaker emotional moments. For example, when Benjamin is aged to be a little boy, looking about the age of six when he once again encounters Cate Blanchett’s character, she just literally says out loud that he’s the same age she was when her character who was portrayed by Elle fanning met Benjamin for the first time. Instead of visually telling that scene to recreate the same scenario or perhaps using a same and strong music cue from the original scene to elicit the emotion, the screenplay has Cate Blanchett just tell the audience what is happening in order to try to get an emotional moment. And as far as creativity goes, other than Benjamin looking like an old man as a young man and vice versa (and some questions are left with how they play it, he’s shown to have a high libido when he looks really old in the brothel scene I think he’s supposed to be 15, so when he reaches his 60’s and looks to be in his 20’s, does he perhaps develop erectile dysfunction or osteoporosis, etc.?) there’s something very odd at how serious it takes itself; it left me with a bizarre feeling. In the original source material; Benjamin is born as a full sized elderly man and in turn the book plays it more tongue and cheek, and I think writing the film with a more similar tone to the source material would’ve benefited the experience greatly because it would be more self aware about the absurdity of an elderly man reverse aging rather than playing it straight. I typically don’t leave comments like this but I genuinely enjoy your content and figured I’d share my take on the film, I’m glad you enjoyed it and I agree others should watch it for themselves too, but I figured you may find my take to be interesting; I think there’s lots of talent involved across the board and I did care about Benjamin and Benjamin’s mother, but I feel the storytelling could’ve had a bigger impact with some more creativity involving the premise. Anyways, keep up the good work I enjoy your content ! Edit: Typos
Thanks for sharing, Alex! I haven't read the source material so your insights are appreciated.
11:41 - well not entirely true. The fact that Forest and Bubba were fighting in Vietnam is a throwback to the way McNamara put low IQ men in harm’s way, I.e. McNamara’s morons, so-called.
Took me a while to get thru the whole video but now that I am done I must say that is was entirely worth the wait.
Thank you.
I am happy to have been able to assist in some small way and I look forward to whatever you have lined up next!
Glad you liked it Mouse. Your support means the world.
The Curious Case of Eyebrow Cinema inadvertently curb stomping Forrest Gump.
I just rewatched Forrest Gump a few months ago, which I loved as a kid. And I loved it more as an adult. But I just rewatched Benjamin Button which I hadn't seen since I was 13. And I appreciate it so much more now as an adult about to turn 29. As I have more experience, loss and love to reflect on. While I think there are things that could have been done better they are two of my favorite movies.
I am so happy and thankful that I was able to find this video because I knew there were way too many similarities between the two. I compared Benjamin button to Forrest while talking to an ex of mine, and he didn’t get it. But I am glad that you made the comparison, because the first time I watched Benjamin button all I thought was 1. This movie is amazing why didn’t I watch it sooner and 2. It’s a lot like Forrest Gump, maybe that’s why I love it so much.
Roth wrote the screenplays, not the story for either. Forrest Gump was written by Winston Groom and TCCOBB was written by none other than F Scott Fitzgerald. Both stories feature archetypal characters and adventure stories. I'm surprised you didn't include all the Disney characters and the Odyssey.
Please see Joseph Campbell for further enlightenment.
I did not expect to hear the song from Garth Marenghi's Darkplace, but I'm not complaining
Such a cool analysis, thanks ! With time, I definitely lost any uplifting feelings from Forrest Gump and you worded my confused feelings on it perfectly. I had completely missed the beauty of Benjamin Button. After your video I went back and rewatched the film, and it took my breath away.
Thank you for incorporating "Parade" into your video. I'm smiling like a cheshire
It is a beautiful piece! I spent like a day going through the FMA looking for music for video essays and it was one of the best songs I came across. Wonderful work. Thank you for making it accessible.
This was an interesting watch, please keep making whatever videos you feel like doing, it's clearly working! I recently saw a similar critique of Forrest Gump by Renegade Cut and while I agreed with many of his points, I think you did a better job of explaining why the political/philosophical implications doesn't work.
Renegade Cut's video was actually a reference for this one! Makes sense you saw those parallels.
@@EyebrowCinema Yeah, I was wondering if there was something like that going on. :-)
@@EyebrowCinema Yeah, I was wondering if there was something like that going on. :-)
I feel foolish that I didn't have any clue that Fincher directed Benjamin Button. It seems to me his typical stylistic flourishes that identify a film as a venture film or absent in BenjaminButton..... Quite a compliment I think, even with zodiac I can immediately tell it was a Fincher directed project
I just rewatched Benjamin Button for the first time since I saw it when I was 5 or 6 years old (when it first came out. I did not understand it at the time), and, having seen Forrest Gump many times in between, I immediately thought: "this is just like Forrest Gump, only deeper... like a poem of fate" and then I came here and you laid it all out. Also, i didn't know that both were written by Eric Roth, so that was a nice tidbit. I think it is a masterpiece in it's own right, not as a visual achievement, but as a tale of humanity and the fate we all share. Thanks for making this comparison so clear and why one was so much more profound and impactful on me. I think in the end Benjamin Button was a great story of hope, not tragedy.
Edit: And I look forward to watching it many more times.
I loved your analysis of these two great movies!! I have a slight preference for Benjamin Button, but I think both are true masterpieces in film-making and storytelling.
“You were just mad at your father”
Yep, and the film unfortunately glosses over that through the framing of Forrest’s naïveté because GIVE WHAT HAPPENED TO HER FROM HER DAD YES I HOPE SHES MAD AND THAT SHIT AFFECTS A LOT OF THINGS
Loved the video. More love for the Garth Marenghi's Darkplace reference
It warms my heart to see so many Garth Marenghi fans commenting.
Forrest Gump is a very hollow movie, and the thing I think speaks best to this isn’t even a part of the movie. It’s a tie in restaurant, Bubba Gump Shrimp Co. An overpriced family seafood restaurant most commonly found in those places heavily frequented by tourists, such as the riverwalk in San Antonio, Texas. Much like a restaurant like Rainforest Cafe is jungle themed, Bubba Gump is Forrest Gump themed. The film is playing on a variety of screens at all time, and many of the restaurant’s menu items are named for niche bits of the film, such as Lt. Dan’s Surf and Turf, a shrimp and baby back ribs plate that typically runs for about $30 after tax. It isn’t worth $30, but they charge that none the less. It’s not a very good restaurant, it’s very commercial, and the service is rather poor. The last time I was there, they forgot the chicken in my mother’s chicken salad, and then proceeded to throw bits and pieces of it all over the floor when examining the dish for themselves. We weren’t charged for the meal, she ate free that night, but it should not have happened in the first place. At the end of the day Bubba Gump’s is a hollow, overly commercial restaurant that has a lot going on on the surface, but has virtually nothing to back up all the excessive decoration. Much like Forrest Gump.
Kind of a weird analogy and not really an equivalent one.
mel on I think it is. Forrest Gump is a film with basically zero substance and pretty icky message about conformism that hides behind Tom Hanks and a bunch of flashy special effects the same way Bubba Gump is a restaurant with shitty food and worse service that hides behind its theme and a bunch of flashy decorations. Pretty 1-to-1 if you ask me.
@@redtexan7053 it still is a none equivalence. Here is an interpretation about the films depth online. I read an essay online that puts together some interesting interpretations maybe you could read it that would be great:
"In 1994, when Robert Zemekis’ cinematic sensation Forrest Gump topped the box office and waltzed away with six Oscar nominations, the critics were firmly in two camps: either the film was unworthy escapism, or it was an ultraconservative conspiracy to communicate an outdated message of traditional values such as patriotism, capitalism and the family. The liberal elite delivered the resounding verdict that there was no serious moral to the story, or else there was a highly suspicious one. And in typically literalist fashion, right-wingers in America lauded the film as a thinly-veiled assault on the counterculture, arriving at an astonishingly simplistic interpretation of the film: Jenny, Forrest’s sweetheart, took drugs, hung out with anti-Vietnam types, and was rewarded with AIDS. By contrast, Forrest wore his country’s uniform, invested wisely, went to church, and made a mint. Yet the film never suggests that making the cover of Fortune magazine (as Forrest does) is where our human aspirations ought to lie. Forrest Gump deserves to be rediscovered.
As the film opens we see a white feather fluttering on the wind as it gradually floats down, eventually landing next to Forrest Gump’s dirty-tennis-shoe-clad foot. Gump is sitting on a park bench in Savannah, Georgia, a box of chocolates perched on his lap. These two symbols, the feather and the chocolates, illustrate the film’s true key theme: Fate - the uncontrollable events that make each of us what we are. But the film’s emphasis is not on fate itself, but on our responses to what fate deals us. While we can’t decide what happens to us, we each have important choices to make in the circumstances in which we find ourselves. Thus in many ways the film’s message is existentialist.
In Existentialism and Humanism (1946) Jean-Paul Sartre distinguishes between human nature and the human condition (p.45ff). Sartre rejected the idea that we possess a generic nature, in the sense of an essence that can be found in each and every human being. Nevertheless, he argued that we share a universality of condition. We find ourselves thrown into the world, and we share the necessities of having to labour and die here. While these necessities are fixed and universal, Sartre stresses that there is nothing about this condition that determines the kind of life we must lead, either as individuals or as groups. Thus our condition limits us in various ways, but it does not compel us to behave in particular ways. Our common predicament means that we must give moral shape to our lives through our free choices. This is an enormous responsibility, because, since humanity has no essence, each of us is literally responsible for creating our humanity. If we choose a holocaust, says Sartre, then this is what we have made of ‘human nature’. Likewise, if we choose resistance or peace, then this is what ‘humanity’ has become for us. Forrest Gump is about these sorts of choices.
The real target of Forrest Gump’s critique is the (typically Protestant) American notion that material rewards are the inevitable outcome of a virtuous, industrious life. The film shows that by contrast, people don’t get what they deserve, and life isn’t fair; it’s more like a box of chocolates: “you never know what you’re gonna get.” All of the main characters in the story - Forrest, Mrs Gump, Jenny, Lt. Dan, Bubba - are dealt their share of suffering and grief. Forrest is born mentally disabled, and with “a back as crooked as a politician”; Mrs Gump’s husband has left her; Jenny’s only parent, her father, is abusive; Lt. Dan gets his legs blown off in the war; Bubba is killed in Vietnam while others survive. None of us can control fate, but in an important sense we make our own destiny by the ways in which we respond to it. On her deathbed, Mrs Gump summarises this philosophy: “I happen to believe you make your own destiny. You’ve got to do the best with what God gave you.”
To illustrate this philosophy, in an early scene, Mrs Gump tries to instil in her son a belief that he is “the same as everybody else.” Despite the fact that the young Forrest is mentally slow and has to wear braces on his legs, he is entitled to the same opportunities and has the same human dignity as everyone else. “If God had wanted everyone to be the same,” Mrs Gump explains, “then He would have made it so everyone had braces on their legs.” When she attempts to enrol Forrest in school, the Principal insists that Forrest will have to go to a special school because his intelligence is below normal. But Mrs Gump refuses to deny Forrest the same opportunities as everybody else, and to that end she’s willing to prostitute herself. While the Principal is collecting his bribe from Mrs Gump, young Forrest hears loud grunts emanating from her bedroom. When the guardian of institutional normality emerges, wiping the post-coital sweat from his brow, it is he who is made to look stupid, when the young Forrest mimics his grunts. This scene highlights the Principal’s hypocrisy: he is the head official in an institution that exists for the purpose of improving people’s minds, yet his own mind is too small to conquer his libido. Meanwhile, Mrs Gump’s behaviour may be socially unacceptable, but her intention is worthy and she doesn’t feel ashamed. This scene alone is a damning indictment of 1950s American social institutions.
These scenes establish Mrs Gump’s moral voice in the story. She is the main influence on Forrest’s life, and her message is that what makes him the same as everybody else is not that his natural endowments are identical to everyone else’s (none of us are equal in that sense), but that, like everyone else, he has the potential to make his own destiny with what fate has given him. His basic human condition (what Sartre would’ve called his facticity) is what makes Forrest just like anyone else.
Lt. Dan learns the film’s central message painfully when his own destiny veers off the expected path, disrupting his family’s tradition of war martyrdom. Lt. Dan curses God for instead being made to live with a physical disability. He is reluctant to accept the fact that life is unfair. Yet although the facts are arbitrary, our ability to make choices and to do something with our condition is fair, as the ability to choose is equally distributed to all. In the realm of freedom we all have an equal opportunity to give our lives value. Dan is only liberated from his crippling emotional bitterness when he finally accepts that his freedom, his ability to make the most with what destiny dictates, is where the real value of his life lies.
Forrest delivers the film’s central motif at Jenny’s grave: “I don’t know if Mama was right, or if it’s Lieutenant Dan. I don’t know if we each have a destiny, or if we’re all just floatin’ around accidental like on a breeze… but I think maybe it’s both. Maybe both is happening at the same time.” The seemingly arbitrary feather on the wind is a symbol of our lives. We too are tossed about by destiny, with little control over where we’ve come from or where we’re going. But Forrest Gump shows us we still have important choices to make in spite of this, and that these choices give our lives its real value."
Continue below:
"So many box office hits are about protagonists who exert power and control, mostly over others. By comparison, Forrest Gump is an unlikely hero. He is depicted as ‘innocent but harmless’, ie, too dull to be cunning or dangerous. Because he does not have the ability to be calculating, he genuinely cares for other people, because he innocently (naively from the cynical perspective of American politics) thinks that other people really matter. Forrest’s natural altruism, and his inability to measure the value of his life against the ‘normal’ criteria of competitive achievement, along with Lt. Dan’s triumph over his own resentment, offers viewers a real source of inspiration, rather than another escapist fantasy of omnipotence. While most Hollywood blockbusters celebrate a kind of heroic hyperperfection inconceivable in real life, Gump reveals the bravery it takes to accept our mere humanity and turn our trials to fortune, both for others and ourselves. While some critics lamented that this fortune had to be taken so literally (‘Bubba Gump Shrimp’ turns Forrest into a millionaire), I still believe the film is better understood as a scathing critique of American capitalist values and the profit-driven worldview that underpins them. In the real world, a morally-innocent millionaire is virtually an oxymoron. This is primarily because, as we instinctively know, morality is distinct from self-interest, the cardinal rule of capitalism. As soon as we begin to ponder the question ‘Why should I be good?’ we understand that a genuinely good person would not need to ask what’s in it for him. If one seeks a reward for an act of goodness, then the motive isn’t good but selfish. The principal at Greenbow Central City School is ‘good’ to Forrest only when he has something to gain; and the same can be said for the University of Alabama. Forrest’s exploitation at the hands of the football team, which after five years allows him to get a college degree, is a comment on how even education in America is little more than a cynical business transaction.
Forrest Gump is a witty satire which holds the American political establishment up to moral scrutiny, especially the military-industrial complex. Time and again, Forrest’s naïve innocence is contrasted with the cunning cleverness of those who exploit him, also including the US military. When Gump is awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for his service in Vietnam, President Johnson kicked off the award ceremony by announcing the need for further escalation of the war in Vietnam. When the President asks to see Forrest’s wound, this provides an opportunity for a not-too-subtle affront to the motives behind the ceremony, as Forrest moons him (the wound was on his buttocks). At the Washington monument, we see a uniformed man unplug the sound system in order to deny freedom of speech to Vietnam vet Forrest and other anti-war protestors. The silencing of Forrest is linked to the historical silencing of Abbie Hoffman and other young American anti-war protestors: Forrest is led to the speaker’s podium by Hoffman, the co-founder of the Youth International Party, who along with six others was tried for conspiracy for his outspoken role in protesting at the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago. The film also reminds viewers several times that all of America’s genuine moral icons have been killed by Americans, from John F. Kennedy to John Lennon.
Cunning cleverness is what Forrest so desperately lacks, yet the question posed by this film is whether he is really any worse off for it. Forrest says to Jenny, “I’m not a smart man, but I know what love is.” The lurking question is whether the smart men who lead his country know what love is at all. Gump is continually being given accolades by politicos at the White House, the insinuation being that they prefer dumb, compliant Americans, so that they can carry on screwing them over. Yet Forrest’s innocent responses to their public relations stunts render them as foolish as him, because the viewer sees through the hypocrisy of their empty rituals and cynical PR ploys. The viewer’s sympathies stay with Forrest throughout, and the film leaves on-lookers lamenting the loss of innocent idealism that Forrest represents. As such, Forrest Gump is a swan song to the more honourable values that once made America great.
The film ends the way it began, with the white feather floating away, leaving viewers to wonder what fate will bring to the next generation of (smarter) Gumps, and how they too will respond to circumstances they cannot foresee."
Man, this is the most underrated channel i have ever seen.
Fantastic breakdown. This channel is top tier
The movies can be summed up by their eras. Forrest is a 90s movie dedicated to boomers like Forrest coming out of the Cold War and adapting to the more quiet life of the 90s. Benjamin Button is a late 2000s movie made in the shadow of not Katrina but 9/11. The real tragedy the movie is hinting at subtextually.
This video is a delight. I've always avoided Forrest Gump (I was a teenager when it came out) because it struck me as self-satisfied and jingoistic. The premise (and origin) of Benjamin Button didn't appeal to me but I came across it on TV late one night and was charmed, touched and thoroughly engaged by it. Will Forrest Gump be a film that people look back on in another 20 years and consider it overblown and overhyped, like Crash (and Green Book)? Fingers crossed (o; ps When I heard the lyric "I'm a one-track lover" I came down to the description to remind myself why this song felt familiar - kudos for referencing Garth Marenghi q:
I think what will help Gump's legacy is that it does work as an escapist entertainment a lot more effectively than movies like Crash or Green Book. Plus, the core filmmaking is extremely good, even if its substance is lacking. And it's so lovely to see people recognize the Garth Marenghi reference!
Crash was considered overhyped the year it was released. Most people were talking about it being overhyped because of cast and it being about racism.
Green Book is seen by most as the same. A safe look at a real friendship through the lense of a movie with all the beats we’ve seen before. If Green Book had been released in the 1970’s, or 1980’s, it may have had more impact.
I mean watch a movie like Moonlight, then watch Green Book. The difference in tone is palpable, and Green Book feels like it was a very diluted script. Both have Mahershala Ali, but in one film he is able to put so much reality into the character, while the other felt restrained, edited and censored.
The academy is very odd that way.
I’ve seen quite a few articles and some videos about why Shakespeare in Love _did_ deserve it’s Oscar over Saving Private Ryan, which are fun to watch, even though I think it’s ridiculous.
Usually it’s about the gender issues these people think Shakespeare in Love contains.
It’s a very well acted film, but not Oscar worthy in 1998, in my opinion.
Truman Show, pi, Thin Red Line, Dark City, American History X, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, Ronin, Pleasantville, Run Lola Run, Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, and many more that are just better films.
I don’t even dislike Shakespeare in Love, but It just doesn’t challenge any thought or reveal anything new. I understand why so many loved it, because it’s not taken itself too seriously, and has some wonderful performances.
There is just so many better movies that got no promotion, and only became cult classics later, or have been forgotten about.
Great video but that One Track Lover needle drop nearly ended me lol
Please is a GED for all that got lost due to the meaning in each other person. Like Frankie says. That Life
“Forest Gump is a depressing ode to conformity” I always felt something is wrong with forest gump this sums it up pretty well.
So, TIL of your channel, and I am now subscribed from this video. I was 27 was when Benjamin button came out and, I honestly just got bored. Ten years later, and I happened to catch on HBO and it's literally my favorite now.
I had to be mature enough to have already swallowed that bitter pill that the only thing constant is change.
Nice to meet you, Abster! I'm glad you liked this. I had a similar history with Benjamin Button. It wasn't until my rewatch last summer that I realized just how special the film is.
@@EyebrowCinema ps- your channel is due 🤨
So you critcise that Forrest Gump doesn't make a political statement? Jeez, yeah, we don't have enough political content as it is, please more of that
honestly the fact that forrest gump stay away from politics is what made it mostly timeless, any one can relate with forrest trying to live a happy life in the 20st century not matter what kind of political stance are you. Where benjamin due to his condition he was forced to do things he didn't want to do to keep foward not matter if people agree with him or not, i mean in one hand you have dorothy gale learning the importance of home and the other hand you have mr smith fighting the incompetence and corruption from the senate in the 30's. It dosn't matter how much mature and complex mr smith sounds you will always relate to dorothy and remember that theres no place like home.
PS: benjamin outside from his condition, he is motly a boring character at least when he becomes younger and its basically any brad pitt dramatic performance. He was more interesting when he was "older" with 8 years old.
All art is political. If you don’t see this reality, then you’re lacking in the intellect department. Go back to school.
Your view of Jenny seems very disconnected. There's a difference between fighting the system and going into a black hole of self destruction.
For most people, the first leads to the second.
Been waiting for a good video about these two movies lol
Hope this scratches that itch for you!
Interesting comparative analysis, thank you for the insight!😍🤩
My goodness you have really misread Forrest Gump
Lt Dan’s purpose in the movie was to represent fate and predeterminism in contrast to Forrest’s mother who represents free will and choice
Lt Dan’s arc is his acceptance of free will and making choices in his life
The story is not about history but is Forrest and Jenny’s love story
Since this is Forrest and Jenny’s story the historical events are only experiences and the events causes are irrelevant the key points being the impacts they have on the characters
Jenny says she wishes she could have experienced Forrests with him and Forrest responds that she was always with him
Point being the details of Forrest past are irrelevant compared to how Forrest viewed the experience ie Jenny was always with him
As for their love story yes it was the traditional one true love story but told in a unique way
Forrest and Jenny were two peas in a pod
However Jenny had to send a part of herself to heaven to escape he abusive home “make me a bird and fly fly away”
It works but she then spends the rest of her life trying to reconnect the separate parts of herself look for all the flying and bird references in her story
When she reconnects with Forrest she gives her pain to him (through the gift of running shoes and making a baby) and Forrest runs to heal her
Btw remember how Forrest marriage proposal played out-he asks her she says you don’t want to marry her he says I know what love is and goes outside to look at the sky where the other half of her is
This video on the movies Forest Gump and Button is excellent! The funny things in the video about Forest and Jenny make me lol.
I have to disagree about you take on Forest Gump’s politics. The movie is from Forest’s perspective who is while wise, has some cognitive disability. He has a noble simplicity which may be a knock on his intellectual, but it is not a knock on his morality or honor. This isn’t a negative either, it’s actually why I think the movie is so great. Despite, not truly understanding why he is at war or who the black panthers or KKK were, Forest still fights courageously, compassionately and honorably. If fact Forest crosses paths with maybe historical figures and events throughout the movie, but never tries to influence them for any personal gain while still acting bravely and kindly. He’s a good person because he acts like a good person. Not because he says he is or fights a cause.
Why then, would the movie comment about the politics of his time if he didn’t understand them. It’s about Forest and how he saw these events. The absence of politics serves to reinforce the noble simplicity of the movie. I’m not saying movies shouldn’t talk about politics either, I just don’t think it would improve Forest Gump as a movie and would actually hinder it by taking away from the core themes.
That is all. I really enjoy your videos I just thought this take was missing the point of Forest Gump.
There would be a serious punishment in hell if after watching this video I didn’t shared this masterpiece and didn’t subscribed your channel
I see you sneak in the shot from Spiderman on the bus....nice.
In my notes I actually wrote "must include Spider-Man gag"
Just found your channel. New subscriber. Ive been binge watching. I first watched your "The Shining" video. One of, if not my favorite movie and your video was excellent
damn this video really recontextualizes Forrest Gump for me. You are 100% correct about everything lol
What’s the song from 25m21s to 28m16s?
I feel like Forrest Gump is almost an enigma. Most people just watch it, like it, and then go about their lives. But once you notice its story’s strange stance on conformity, it’s hard to unsee it. I feel like almost any film, even movies with conservative perspectives, don’t normally just say “always follow the rules no matter what” with its narrative, yet that is what Gump is doing. So it then raises a question of, why? Is it a conscious choice to not say anything on history, or to make its character’s success come from just doing what people tell him? Is there a deeper meaning being missed? It almost becomes a Rorschach test in trying to “figure out” the movie when there’s probably nothing to figure out. And then what does it mean when one still at least enjoys the movie when watching it? All that to say, phenomenal use of Darkplace, well done, more people need to see Garth Marenghi’s Darkplace, and I need to finally see Benjamin Button
I do believe the filmmakers when they say the conservative readings weren't intentional. If anything, what it might reveal is how deeply ingrained ideas of "pure American values" are in society. And I'm glad you liked the Darkplace reference!
I always thought Forrest Gump is about Forrest, not about history.
Fascinating as a good review for "Benjamin Button", which is generally regarded as a "meh" movie. Maybe not a failure, just "meh", esp. for a guy with Fincher's rep. As for the other one, I never cared for it, feeling that it manipulates you harder than any other movie I can think of, minus some of Mel Gibson's beauties like "Passion of the Christ". I just feel that it's a flag-waving, rah-rah movie, first and foremost, even more than an ode to conformity (though that, of course, is part of being a rah-rah movie). It's pose seems to be, "Look at the great things that can happen in Murica, even to a dummy. Just work hard and do what you're told!" I know Zemeckis et al. deny that, but that's how it comes across.
I could listen to you all night and I probably will.
Good video as usual but I always dismissed both films at least from the directors and screenwriters. Forrest Gump seemed to be a giant ode to Baby Boomer navel gazing and Button seemed to be Oscar bait. Great work by the actors but I remember being annoyed at the time seeing Blanchet since this was when she was getting cast in everything. Definitely was the best work in Pitts career.
FORREST GUMP IS ONE OF MY 5 TOP FAVORITE MOVIES!!
So weird these are the only 2 movies I can watch over and over and cry.
excellent analysis. I like Benjamin Button even more now. Subbed and liked my guy, keep up da good work.
I really loved your video essay
While I understand the critique of Forrest Gump, and it is not one of my all-time favorite films I did find it quite well done and enjoyable. Yes the lack of interesting characters in Forrest Gump is one of the main reasons it's not higher on my list of favorite films, but part of the enjoyment for me was a Hollywood for once decided not to spoon feed me what was good in American history and what was that in American history. If you're looking to Hollywood films for your history you have already failed in any scholarly or intellectual pursuit.
25:30
The whole conformity aspect and how Jenny goes against the norm and gets noting but bad luck in return, is what we call an "accidentally aseop"
And it amazes me that I see reviews on letterboxd calling this a "republican wet dream"
You're not wrong about the first part, but you're definitely wrong about the second part. Intentions or not, everything just magically falls into place for Forrest when he plays it straight and everything goes wrong for Jenny when she goes against the norms. The filmmaking makes you root for Forrest to such a degree that Jenny is villainized simply for not dropping everything to stay with Forrest, and we're supposed to believe that's what her cure would be. As if it were that simple. I think that's why people call it a Republican wet dream, it liberates everything the party stands for. American Dream, rigid social norms, etc. It might not have been Roth's intention but it is 100% conservative in attitude with even the smallest amount of critical political/cultural analysis.
I also have yet to get to that part in the video but I'm sure he goes over these points extensively lol
Lost it at the Darkplace gag
Katrina wasn't in 2008, but 2005; otherwise I love this video! Been really digging your stuff this week. Wish I'd discovered you sooner.
He didn't say Katrina was in 2008; he said that, for audiences watching Benjamin Button in 2008 (the year the film was released), the memories of Katrina were still very fresh and painful.
7:57 Who’s the actress in the back?
both movies make me cry like a bitch.
I agree they are so sad yet wonderful films. Button's is stronger tho. Forest is Funny.
4:11 Who’s that weather reporter?
Didn't realize Elizabeth's husband was a British spy. Doesn't seem he was very good at gathering intel.
Never loved Forest Gump. I think Benjamin Buttons is much better.
A great analysis, my guy
18:30 Do all these music cues seem like a cliche still? Did they read as cliche when forrest gump came out? I was only 9 years old when this movie was in theatres. Did they get used to death in the intervening time and become examples?
I can't speak for all of them, but using "Fortunate Son" to underscore Vietnam is very on the nose.
Both are fantastic movies
Jenny would've dip out of there if she saw baby Benjamin. All my homies hate Jenny.
5:26 Which actress is that?
Great vid! Yeah, I've always liked "Benjamin Button" a lot more than "Forrest Gump." "Forrest Gump" is certainly a good movie - no doubt, but it's hands down one of the most overrated film's of all time imo, I've never really understood why it's so adored. On the other hand, "Benjamin Button" was, while being slow, absolutely brilliant from start to finish and was/is one of the most thought-provoking films I've ever seen.
i always thought benjamin button was underrated. not underrated enough for the criterion collection though